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DNA 'Knockouts' Reveal Genes Humans Don't Need (sciencemag.org)

sciencehabit writes: Although humans have about 20,000 genes, exactly what most of them do inside our body's cells is still murky. One way to learn more is to find people who lack a working copy of a particular gene and see how that affects their health. Such so-called knockouts are scarce in the general population. But a new study points to a more efficient way to find them: Search the DNA of people from a culture in which marrying a relative is common. The study has found a number of genes that we seemingly can do without, including those thought to prevent serious diseases. And one healthy mother completely lacked a gene called PRDM9 that is involved in shuffling chromosomes during the formation of eggs and sperm. Mice lacking the gene are sterile.

93 comments

  1. Sphagetti code by sinij · · Score: 4, Funny

    Our genome is spaghetti code of the worst kind. If God exists, he is horrible coder.

    1. Re:Sphagetti code by NotInHere · · Score: 1

      Horrible from a human perspective. He is transcendent, we are just too dumb to understand the inner beauty.

    2. Re:Sphagetti code by Wycliffe · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Our genome is spaghetti code of the worst kind. If God exists, he is horrible coder.

      Looking at the genome (or our brain) to understand how it works is kindof like looking at the end result of a neural net or genetic algorithm. The millions of random mutations get the right result based on the selection criteria (in this case survival). The animal world has plenty of extreme macroscopic examples of this whether it is extremely painful reproduction, deadly reproduction, insane impractical appendages, it doesn't really matter as long as your generation "wins". Some AI scientists have tried to reverse engineer relatively simple code generated by genetic algorithms and have found stuff that as far as they can tell shouldn't even work but exploits some small loophole in either the code, the hardware, or the selection criteria. When I was in HS, I did some GA stuff that failed miserably at midnight because the bots were taking advantage of minor variations in the random number generator and those assumptions failed as soon as the day changed. Our genome is this times a million. The number of flukes, switchbacks, random hacks, and things that shouldn't work but manage to because of some other random mutation is probably mind-boggling.

    3. Re:Sphagetti code by zx75 · · Score: 2

      Are you kidding? Considering that god wrote a program that is self-modifying, evolutionary, infinitely adaptable, and capable of self-reflection and consciousness from a few basic parameters that started the size of an infinitesimal speck containing all the energy in the universe... I would say god is an uncomprehendingly amazing coder!

      --
      This is not a sig.
    4. Re:Sphagetti code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, let's see.

      First of all, god does not exist. There is no god. God is a figment of human imagination, made up in olden-times days for the expressed purpose of coercing "proper behavior" among humans, under the threat of eternal damnation. Now, of course, several thousand years later, we know this is/was largely a crock of shit.

      With that out of the way, we can embrace the truth, which is that this "sphagetti [sic] code" of yours is -- like all life in the universe -- a bunch of random noise. It has no meaning, no point, no underlying meaning. It is for all intents and purposes just another blip on a gigantic TV screen full of static.

      Yes, and when your life is over, you will be completely forgotten in less than 10 years. Eventually, the Earth will be destroyed and all of humanity will be forgotten, forever, by a universe that never gave two shits to begin with.

      Call it depressing if you must. Some of us call it enlightening and liberating. It is, after all, the truth.

    5. Re:Sphagetti code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What else would you expect from the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

    6. Re:Sphagetti code by PvtVoid · · Score: 5, Funny

      Horrible from a human perspective. He is transcendent, we are just too dumb to understand the inner beauty.

      That's what I tell people about my code all the time.

    7. Re:Sphagetti code by Zeio · · Score: 3, Insightful

      NO.

      Its called epigenetics and three dimension conformation and methylation groups.

      Gene expression relies on both methylation, epigenetics (inheritable - this is big as experience and environment can create gene expression changes that are passed to offspring) and three dimensional configuration of "useless genes" have an effect on gene expression.

      Your notion of double helix and guanine tyrosine adensosine cytosine and uracil for thymine in RNA being simple "code" is absurd, disproved and ridiculous.

      Removal of ""useless"" codons WILL change gene expression and cause huge problems which are not able to be predicted.

      I noticed that most of the domain specific jargon words I'm using aren't showing up as known in Chrome so the world is not, according to the bulk data spell correction, even thinking about this issue of methylation, epigenetics and DNA codons and gene expression correctly.

      --
      Legalize the constitution. Think for yourself question authority.
    8. Re:Sphagetti code by cat_jesus · · Score: 1

      Removal of ""useless"" codons WILL change gene expression and cause huge problems which are not able to be predicted.

      Yet.

      At some point we will be able to not only predict what genes will do, we will be able to optimize our genetic code and harden it.

    9. Re:Sphagetti code by jsrjsr · · Score: 1

      First of all, god does not exist. There is no god. God is a figment of human imagination, made up in olden-times days for the expressed purpose of coercing "proper behavior" among humans, under the threat of eternal damnation. Now, of course, several thousand years later, we know this is/was largely a crock of shit.

      Well, some people *think* they know that God does not exist. They have about the same amount of proof as those who *think* they know that God does exist.

    10. Re:Sphagetti code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Fuck it, ship it"
      - God

    11. Re:Sphagetti code by Tablizer · · Score: 3, Funny

      Our genome is spaghetti code of the worst kind. If God exists, he is horrible coder.

      It's been obfuscated for security. He/she doesn't want humans mucking with it.

    12. Re:Sphagetti code by Flavianoep · · Score: 1

      God? Is that you?

      --
      Linux is for people who don't mind RTFM.
    13. Re:Sphagetti code by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      And you will likewise be fired for a "transcendent" reason.

    14. Re:Sphagetti code by Flavianoep · · Score: 1

      Can anyone prove that I am not god myself? Can you prove that I am not god?

      --
      Linux is for people who don't mind RTFM.
    15. Re:Sphagetti code by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      God would have included an spelling and grammer mistake.

      She is all things to all people.

      Pedants need something to brighten their miserable existence.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    16. Re:Sphagetti code by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 1

      We only use 50% of our brain ... oh, now we know we use a vast amount more than that.

      What I am trying to get at, is while something appears to be unused, their use may be a lot more subtle that we suspect. For example it can kick in as protective mechanism in some context, but otherwise appear dormant or non-functional. From a coding context, this is like the function that is called in 2% of cases, every 2 years, but not having it could mean a system crash of the worst kind. Again from a coding context, this is the sort of thing that sometimes gets pruned out and then everyone realises that it was what kept the system going when the moon turns blue (or some other funky situation). Instead of having a computer go offline, you have a living entity die because of some edge case, that was being handled with a now pruned gene.

      Actually there is another way of looking at things. A application where every useful function has some defined offset and pruning something may cause lookup issues. In those cases the 'unused' code is better left in place 'just in case', since replacing it with a series of 'NOOP's doesn't provide a better solution either.

      --
      Jumpstart the tartan drive.
    17. Re:Sphagetti code by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 1

      Our genome is spaghetti code of the worst kind. If God exists, he is horrible coder.

      It's been obfuscated for security. He/she doesn't want humans mucking with it.

      Maybe being a master coder and tinkerer, the code base is a mixture of intended functionality, experiments, 'what if's, 'just in case' and 'just because'. It works well enough, as intended and it is fun just seeing things play out. God may not be playing dice, but may still be happy just sitting back and observing how things turn out.

      --
      Jumpstart the tartan drive.
    18. Re:Sphagetti code by idontgno · · Score: 1

      What's the difference between a self-proclaimed rockstar developer and God?

      God knows he's not a developer.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    19. Re:Sphagetti code by Notorious+G · · Score: 2

      Our genome is spaghetti code of the worst kind. If God exists, he is horrible coder.

      Unless your your god is the flying spaghetti monster.

      Oh man, you just blew my mind.

    20. Re:Sphagetti code by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      mixture of intended functionality, experiments, 'what if's, 'just in case' and 'just because'

      "Let's see what happens if I send in this odd Trump critter..."

    21. Re:Sphagetti code by PvtVoid · · Score: 2

      Well, some people *think* they know that God does not exist. They have about the same amount of proof as those who *think* they know that God does exist.

      I also think I know that there are no invisible penguins in my dishwasher. And I have exactly the same amount of proof.

    22. Re:Sphagetti code by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      God would have included an spelling and grammer mistake.

      I see you are a devout follower. Don't forget to pay your teething.

    23. Re:Sphagetti code by TomGreenhaw · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately that theory is ruled out by the sequencing of ancient DNA of neanderthals and early human remains. Its spaghetti code just like ours...

      --
      Greed is the root of all evil.
    24. Re:Sphagetti code by Zeio · · Score: 1

      Mapping this out will take a lot of time. You'll need a "life simulator" to see what every codon does. Also you would need an even more immense "life simulator" to take into account what all the side effects of the various methylation groups are. Sure, its possible to figure this out, but the article is not good at all - indicating there is a lot of "junk" in the genome is useless. Indicating certain sequences are knockouts and important is hardly a new concept. Now find the gene that causes autism if its truly a genetic cause. We cant even tell if complex disorders of the brain are environmental or genetic at this point . Tooling around with red hair and blue eyes is so basic vs being able to speak or what makes someone "smart" or learn fast.

      And now the ultimate field of medicine - antisense RNA, which will likely remain the cures of the future for a long, long time given our early-stage understanding on how genetics actually work. Do make antisense work - which is to be able to provide an artificial in-cell immune system, you need to know the pathology, then know what proteins and mRNA are the result of the disease, then insert the antisense RNA into the cell to get the result you are looking for. If you think we are able to change complex genes or cure any genetic disease or take a chimp DNA and fix it so it could be super smart and able to speak we are a long, long, loooong ways off from that.

      --
      Legalize the constitution. Think for yourself question authority.
    25. Re:Sphagetti code by HiThere · · Score: 2

      While there's some truth in what you say, there's not much. Epigenetics are rather like state variables, Methylation is analogous to a read-protect and de-methylation to the removal of such protections. Most epigenetic markers are removed between generations, but some slip through, an don't know the reasons. (That's not my area of expertise, but I believe that nobody currently knows why.)

      OTOH, "unused" genes may be needed as spacers, as some enzymes depend on a particular separation between the pieces that they are attaching to. But many of them are flexible enough that removing the spacers wouldn't cause problems.

      To say that the chromosomes are just strings of nucleotides would, indeed, be foolish. This doesn't mean that code isn't a good, even an excellent, analogy. It's the best analogy we really understand unless you want to consider it as being like a virtual machine, but few people really understand virtual machines. I suppose you could analogize it to a complex multiprocessor program with inter-process communication, but that doesn't really help ANYONE understand it. It's more accurate, but too complex and not sufficiently specific.

      Removal of SOME "useless" codons will change gene expression. Removal of other "useless" codons will have no effect. Removal of other "useless" codons will have no effect except in the presence of particular external threats.

      Remember, the genetic environment, including the code, evolved, which means that there's a lot of noise in the code. One of the problems of writing genetic programs is limiting the accumulation of noise in the code. Darwinian evolution does this by multiple means, but one of the primary ones is killing off the unfit before they can reproduce. This is difficult unless you're dealing with a really large population. Say the world population of mice. Larger animals with smaller populations have a tendency to go extinct. (Well, every species has a tendency to go extinct, but small populations are more likely to do so.)

      Because of this humans are at two or three evolutionary disadvantages. We've expanded from a small population, so our genetic variability is small. We are a large animal, so we have a small population. And we avoid killing off the unfit. Genetic medicine offers an eventual solution. We aren't there yet, but this study is one of many needed stepping stones.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    26. Re:Sphagetti code by TomGreenhaw · · Score: 1

      > First of all, god does not exist. There is no god.
      OK AC, then please explain where the universe came from. And don't say the big bang because my next question will be where that came from.

      >It has no meaning, no point, no underlying meaning. It is for all intents and purposes just another blip on a gigantic TV screen full of static.
      I truly feel sorry for you. Remember the old saying - it's not the destination that matters as much as the journey. There is meaning enough in observing the majesty of nature, from its smallest subatomic components to the grandeur of the cosmos. If that's not good enough, experiencing love from the first time you hold your baby and watching he and or she grow to wonderful successful adults should be. Each of us can find value in life and experience meaningful existence in our own unique way.

      >Yes, and when your life is over, you will be completely forgotten in less than 10 years.
      Tell that to the people who remember King Tut, Jesus Christ, Mohammed, Isaac Newton, Einstein, etc... (pick your favorite historical figure) Swing for the fences with your life - we all have a shot to be remembered.

      >Call it depressing if you must. Some of us call it enlightening and liberating. It is, after all, the truth.
      Enlightened? I don't see your position as enlightenment; its a poorly constructed lazy illogical assumption. Liberating? From what bonds does your position liberate you. If in fact you feel bound by some religious orthodoxy, your struggle against that itself provides meaning to life.

      Your swimming in the nerd pool here - either make a strong well reasoned logical scientific argument or play it safe and call yourself an agnostic.

      --
      Greed is the root of all evil.
    27. Re:Sphagetti code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Self-modifying code.

    28. Re:Sphagetti code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're.

    29. Re:Sphagetti code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is a warning and example from God that, despite the power of using evolutionary processes to breed programmatic solutions to problems, then end result is messy and unreadable. Researchers in evolutionary computing seem to be discovering this for themselves.

    30. Re:Sphagetti code by mythosaz · · Score: 1

      >OK AC, then please explain where the universe came from.

      The lack of an explanation for the origin of the universe is not proof of any invisible sky creature.

      The onus for proving the existence of mythical beings is on those who believe in mythical beings, not those of us who don't.

    31. Re:Sphagetti code by mythosaz · · Score: 1

      A beer volcano. Midgets. Strippers.

    32. Re: Sphagetti code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Plus it's not spaghetti-code, it's just encrypted.

    33. Re:Sphagetti code by TomGreenhaw · · Score: 1

      In philosophy, where the universe came from is called the first cause argument. I'm just trying to suggest that a stronger argument needs to be made to disprove the existence of God.

      I'm not trying to prove the existence of God here, just rebut a very arbitrary baseless statement. Like I said in the last sentence of that post - either make a strong well reasoned logical scientific argument or play it safe and call yourself an agnostic.

      What really prompted me to respond was that life has no meaning. It does for me...

      Of course all of this is totally off topic. If God really does write sloppy spaghetti code, it explains a lot. They say we are made in His image :-)

      --
      Greed is the root of all evil.
    34. Re:Sphagetti code by vivian · · Score: 2

      We probably could eventually optimise our genetic code for our current conditions and environment - however there is probably a lot of 'unused' code that then gets turned on when envronmental conditions change or different stresses are introduced, making it possible for us as a species to rapidly evolve into something more able to survive, so removing al that 'useless' code would most likely turn out to be a big mistake when we one day discover that actually a lot of those unused genes would have been really useful after all, now conditions have changed.

    35. Re:Sphagetti code by DivineKnight · · Score: 1

      Psalm 82:6

      http://biblehub.com/psalms/82-...

      New International Version
      "I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.'

      New Living Translation
      I say, 'You are gods; you are all children of the Most High.

      English Standard Version
      I said, “You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you;

      New American Standard Bible
      I said, "You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High.

      King James Bible
      I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

      Holman Christian Standard Bible
      I said, "You are gods; you are all sons of the Most High.

      International Standard Version
      "Indeed I said, 'You are gods, and all of you are sons of the Most High.

      NET Bible
      I thought, 'You are gods; all of you are sons of the Most High.'

      Aramaic Bible in Plain English
      I have said, “You are gods; you are all children of The Highest!

      GOD'S WORD® Translation
      I said, "You are gods. You are all sons of the Most High.

      JPS Tanakh 1917
      I said: Ye are godlike beings, And all of you sons of the Most High.

      New American Standard 1977
      I said, “You are gods,
        And all of you are sons of the Most High.

      Jubilee Bible 2000
      I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are sons of the most High.

      King James 2000 Bible
      I have said, You are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

      American King James Version
      I have said, You are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

      American Standard Version
      I said, Ye are gods, And all of you sons of the Most High.

      Douay-Rheims Bible
      I have said: You are gods and all of you the sons of the most High.

      Darby Bible Translation
      I have said, Ye are gods, and all of you are children of the Most High;

      English Revised Version
      I said, Ye are gods, and all of you sons of the Most High.

      Webster's Bible Translation
      I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the Most High.

      World English Bible
      I said, "You are gods, all of you are sons of the Most High.

      Young's Literal Translation
      I -- I have said, 'Gods ye are, And sons of the Most High -- all of you,

    36. Re:Sphagetti code by Grishnakh · · Score: 2

      Basically, we're just a bunch of Rube Goldberg machines.

    37. Re:Sphagetti code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First of all, god does not exist. There is no god.

      OK AC, then please explain where the universe came from. And don't say the big bang because my next question will be where that came from.

      It's actually a lot easier than that to prove that God exists. Simply define God to be your favorite coffee cup. Pretty much every sane person will agree that it exists. QED.

      Or define God to be the collective consciousness of some space aliens from a much more advanced civilization. Given the size and age of the universe, it's very likely that there are some space aliens out there somewhere in the universe - even if they are too far away to even be aware of our existence here on earth. Or what if there is a God but it actually thinks gay marriage is a very good thing? Were all the people wrong who claimed to believe in the existence of a God who opposed gay marriage.

      Now, one of the key hallmarks of a lie is that it is very consistent with regards to the objectives of the person telling the lie. But it becomes wildly inconsistent when examined from other points of view. And most organized religions are very consistent with regard to the question of whether it's good to be a member of the religious organization. But they become inconsistent when considered from other perspectives - such as the motives of the God that they claim exists.

      It has no meaning, no point, no underlying meaning. It is for all intents and purposes just another blip on a gigantic TV screen full of static.

      If that's not good enough, experiencing love from the first time you hold your baby and watching he and or she grow to wonderful successful adults should be.

      Not everyone grows up to be a successful adult. In fact, globally, somewhere around 20,000 children a day die of poverty. Would you find meaning in watching your children die of poverty?

      Each of us can find value in life and experience meaningful existence in our own unique way.

      If I were Bill Gates or Larry Page, my life would have plenty of "meaning" - and I would really want to live forever. On the other hand, I'm not sure I would want to live forever if my life consisted of an eternity of working on the assembly line of an iPhone factory in China.

      For some of us, life is clearly worth living. For others, the answer is less clear.

      Yes, and when your life is over, you will be completely forgotten in less than 10 years.

      Tell that to the people who remember King Tut, Jesus Christ, Mohammed, Isaac Newton, Einstein, etc... (pick your favorite historical figure) Swing for the fences with your life - we all have a shot to be remembered.

      Some people imagine that the purpose of life is to have as big an impact on the world as possible and be remembered "forever". Other people imagine that the purpose of life is to have as little impact on the world as possible and to be forgotten quickly. Fundamentally, there's no reason to choose one over the other - when you're dead it won't actually matter one way or the other.

      Call it depressing if you must. Some of us call it enlightening and liberating. It is, after all, the truth.

      Enlightened? I don't see your position as enlightenment; its a poorly constructed lazy illogical assumption. Liberating? From what bonds does your position liberate you. If in fact you feel bound by some religious orthodoxy, your struggle against that itself provides meaning to life.

      One of the key concerns with organized religion is that it causes people to hurt each other for no reason. Of course, there are all kinds of reasons that people hurt each other. Just as drunk driving isn't the cause of all traffic accidents, organized religion is not the cause of all bad things in the world. But that doesn't mean that encouraging drunk driving would reduc

    38. Re:Sphagetti code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't you think it's about time we, as a race of allegedly sentient beings, gave up this childish notion that some parent-god-figure 'created' us, and accepted that we evolved, at random, and against all the odds of it happening? I understand that it's a fundamental flaw in our brains that causes this overwhelming need to 'explain' things in simple terms (which is why we created 'gods' in the first place), but we're supposed to be evolving towards a higher consciousness, and part of that means taking responsibility for ourselves and our actions, not putting it all on some 'god' somewhere that can never be proven to exist (because, or course, there is no such thing as 'god' or 'gods'). Perpetuating this behavior, generation after generation, is literally holding back our evolution. Worse, it's interpreted by some to mean they have Carte Blanche to commit any atrocities they feel like, because 'it is Gods will' (or Allahs will, as the case may be). Honestly, it has to stop.

    39. Re:Sphagetti code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can tell you right now you aren't sounding like you know what you are talking about or someone who would be the type who could change the genome in a responsible or effective way. In fact you sound like you would be like the type of person who would play god Dr. Strangelove style foaming at the mouth.

      Few people understand virtual machines? What the hell are you talking about?

      And DNA as code? It modifies itself, it has "safeguards" and self healing during operation, reading the "code" is hugely more complex. Like the OP says without a life simulator this is either Dr. Mengele test on people and try random things ethics be damned or try harder to figure out how the thing works. You dont sound like you know how it works, it sounds like you work in some dark lab somewhere doing stupid trivial things for a mega-medical-industrial-complex mega-pharma and you are a cog in a big machine. Either that or a low level academic.

    40. Re:Sphagetti code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But . . . you are God.

    41. Re:Sphagetti code by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Removal of SOME "useless" codons will change gene expression. Removal of other "useless" codons will have no effect.

      But we don't have a very good clue of which is which, either, and what won't affect one individual if you made a tweak might affect another with differences someplace else, right?

      To say that the chromosomes are just strings of nucleotides would, indeed, be foolish. This doesn't mean that code isn't a good, even an excellent, analogy.

      Code would be a good analogy if there were something in the system that's like a CPU.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    42. Re:Sphagetti code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True comment appearing above a blank function in some VBA

      #I couldn't figure out what this code did so I deleted it...

      DILLIGAF I don't work there anymore,

    43. Re:Sphagetti code by morethanapapercert · · Score: 1

      "You told me, 'God made the World.'" "No, no!" Harshaw said hastily. "I told you that, while all these many religions said many things, most of them said, 'God made the World.' I told you that I did not grok the fullness, but that 'God' was the word that was used." "Yes, Jubal," Mike agreed. "Word is 'God'" He added. "You grok." "No, I must admit I don't grok." "You grok," Smith repeated firmly. "I am explain. I did not have the word. You grok. Anne groks. I grok. The grass under my feet groks in happy beauty. But I needed the word. The word is God." Jubal shook his head to clear it. "Go ahead." Mike pointed triumphantly at Jubal. "Thou art God!" Jubal slapped a hand to his face. "Oh, Jesus H. — What have I done? Look, Mike, take it easy! Simmer down! You didn't understand me. I'm sorry. I'm very sorry! Just forget what I've been saying and we'll start over again on another day. But — " "Thou art God," Mike repeated serenely. "That which groks. Anne is God. I am God. The happy grass are God, Jill groks in beauty always. Jill is God. All shaping and making and creating together — ." He croaked something in Martian and smiled

      --
      I need a wheelchair van for my son. Help me get the word out. https://www.gofundme.com/wheelchair-van-for-jj
    44. Re:Sphagetti code by slashping · · Score: 1

      OK AC, then please explain where the universe came from

      Time itself started with the beginning of the universe. It doesn't make sense to speak of what happened "before" time existed. Your frame of reference simply isn't equipped for asking these kinds of questions.

    45. Re:Sphagetti code by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      All conventional non-trivial characterizations of God lead to contradictions, therefor God does not exist.
      To clarify, by non-trivial I eliminate pantheism and other such foolishness that gives God no special properties.
      By conventional I eliminate "I am God" and "that rock is God" and other non-supernatural definitions, and I eliminate substituting fairies and pixies, etc. for God.

      The hackneyed quest for or denial of a meaning of life is properly countered with another commonplace: "Life is what you make it."

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    46. Re:Sphagetti code by TomGreenhaw · · Score: 1

      > All conventional non-trivial characterizations of God lead to contradictions,
      That may be so. I have not examined all conventional non-trivial characterizations of God.

      > therefor God does not exist.
      Your logic is flawed and I strongly suspect based on unproven assumptions. Unfortunately in the absence of availability and cold beer, we'll have to agree to disagree.

      >"Life is what you make it."
      I can't agree more.

      --
      Greed is the root of all evil.
    47. Re:Sphagetti code by Frozen+Void · · Score: 1

      >god does not exist. There is no god.
      > Call it depressing if you must. Some of us call it enlightening and liberating. It is, after all, the truth.
      An absolute omni-anything entity does not exist, but astral/mental planes are filled with gods and you can become one within the framework of spiritual evolution.
      Humanity is not forgotten as all its history continues in pocket dimensions of astral planes. All fictional worlds or anything that carries focused energy of humans exists and you can visit most of them using astral projection techniques. You can even visit alien worlds and parallel planes/worlds There thousands of Earths, there universes where only energy lifeforms exist and  millions of dimensions where no human soul ever visited(you could be the first).

    48. Re:Sphagetti code by HiThere · · Score: 2

      Well, you could nominate the ribosome as a multi-processor CPU, but the analogy is really too loose to carry that far.

      You don't use an analogy to get a detailed understanding of something, only to get a rough idea. For detailed understanding you need to study the thing itself. Like this study.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    49. Re:Sphagetti code by HiThere · · Score: 2

      If you think many people understand virtual machines, then you are using the word "understanding" in a very different way than I do. Many people have a rough idea of how virtual machines work. That's not at all the same statement.

      And as for your last paragraph, I think your acquaintance with code is shallow. Error Correcting Codes are common. Many of them can even correct multi-bit errors. Computer "viruses" modify existing code, but they were developed from programs that self-modified.

      As for my level of expertise, it's only general science level WRT biology. I am aware, however, of the features that you describe, and so what. Do you expect analogies to be the same as isomorphisms? The better criticism of the analogy would be that code isn't self-motivated, doesn't build the environment within which it lives, etc. And even to that I say "So what?". The statement may be valid, but it's not a criticism of the analogy. If you're interested in that set of features you need a different analogy, but you won't find one that's perfect in all details, because that's not what an analogy is.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    50. Re:Sphagetti code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's the difference between a self-proclaimed rockstar developer and God?

      God knows he's not a developer.

      That is clear, He should have at least commented his code.

    51. Re: Sphagetti code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Plus it's not spaghetti-code, it's just encrypted.

      Code that would be better if it were open source.. you are casting God in the role of Bill Gates! shame on you.

      Bill Gates only thinks he is God.

      Captcha = bilabial

    52. Re:Sphagetti code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Earth will be destroyed and all of humanity will be forgotten, forever, by a universe that never gave two shits to begin with..

      The universe has given us WAAAAAAAAY more than two shits.. look around the yard sometime.

    53. Re:Sphagetti code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Fuck it, We'll do it live!"
      - Bill O'Reilly

      FTFY

  2. So by dreamchaser · · Score: 0

    "Search the DNA of people from a culture in which marrying a relative is common."

    So they went to the Appalachians to do the study?

    1. Re:So by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No Just to England to study the royal family.

    2. Re:So by iggymanz · · Score: 2

      Reptillian DNA studies wouldn't be relevant to us humans though

  3. value of the "million genome project" by peter303 · · Score: 2

    I heard there are between 10 and 20 thousand human genomes fully sequenced now. Both Craig Venter and Obama are trying to jack that up to a million. Then Analytics will replace a lot of painstaking lab work. (but not all)

    1. Re:value of the "million genome project" by sinij · · Score: 4, Funny

      Next combine this with metadata gathered by NSA, and we could know exactly whom to show penis enlargement adds.

    2. Re:value of the "million genome project" by matthewmok · · Score: 1

      I did not know Obama was a geneticist...he truly is so multi-talented.

    3. Re:value of the "million genome project" by Hylandr · · Score: 1

      Your Mom?

      --
      ~ People that think they are better than anyone else for any reason are the cause of all the strife in the world.
    4. Re:value of the "million genome project" by ickleberry · · Score: 1

      The Almighty GOOG will probably sponsor a few dollars, claim they are in this project for the good of mankind and then start targetting people with those ads

  4. Don't worry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What could go wrong?

    1. Re:Don't worry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      T han que for reemoo mooving that noneeded jean.

  5. In other news by Robyrt · · Score: 2

    Studies reveal that humans are also able to survive without a functioning X-Gene.

    1. Re:In other news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IronY?

  6. Then again by choke · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You can remove half the parts of my diesel engine. It'll work .. until the set of conditions that the specific part is intended to address occur at which time it will fail. Sometimes dramatically.

    The human system is significantly more complex than my diesel engine, and the set of conditions that it encounters are significantly more complex as well.

    The thought that ignorance of fact is evidence of fact is appalling. That we don't know what a part does, in no way indicates anything other than our own lack of understanding.

    --
    "No good deed goes unpunished"
    1. Re:Then again by Hylandr · · Score: 1

      +1

      Hell, +10k.

      So much this.

      --
      ~ People that think they are better than anyone else for any reason are the cause of all the strife in the world.
    2. Re:Then again by Pharmboy · · Score: 1

      Based just on the title, I was already agreeing, thinking that is the most arrogant yet stupid headline I've ever seen. And I guess now we can start creating designer babies by removing all this junk, until the human race needs to cope with something those genes provided.

      --
      Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
    3. Re:Then again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your deisel engine has been carefully designed not to have anything that's completely unnecessary. But evolution works mainly by duplication.

      Imagine that an ancient car only had a steering wheel. But then the steering wheel duplicated a few times so that the descendents of the original car had multiple steering wheels. But then one of the steering wheels evolved into a brake peddle. And then the brake peddle duplicated a few times. And then one of the brake peddles evolved into a gas peddle, etc. So your final car has multiple steering wheels and multiple brake peddles and multiple gas peddles, etc.

      But the key point here is that you're trying to identify the causative variant in rare genetic disorders. So if you have someone who is very sick (all the time) then the causative variant is unlikely to be in a gene that can be completely knocked out and people are fine.

  7. Their nearest and dearest... by zkiwi34 · · Score: 1

    Should be the "beneficiaries" of such a breakthrough.

    Mind you, it all probably means that once more there's a publicly noticeable epic fail. Remember of course that a lot of those science think that around 90% of DNA is just junk.

  8. Plot twist by wardrich86 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Plot twist: The genomes they lack are the ones that keep the rest of us from wanting to marry our siblings and cousins. Could this be the beginning of the end?

    1. Re:Plot twist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They are talking about muslims.

    2. Re:Plot twist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Plot twist: The genomes they lack are the ones that keep the rest of us from wanting to marry our siblings and cousins. Could this be the beginning of the end?

      Anything is possible, look at the angler fish.

  9. Defense in-depth by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 3, Funny

    What one fool would call 'junk DNA', the ox-slow grinding of disease and toxins would call a chance for a few members of the species to survive a near-extinction event.

  10. Comparison to programming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think of this a bit like the beginner programmer venturing into unknown territory: oh let's just remove this here and that over there, and let's compile. Oh, what's happening! Why isn't it working!

    If it's working, don't fix it.

  11. Endogenous retroviruses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some of these genes could be endogenous retroviruses - i.e. from ancient viral infections we've learned to live with and have been incorporated into our DNA.

    Knock them out, and we could be infected anew!

    1. Re:Endogenous retroviruses by HiThere · · Score: 1

      The problem isn't that if you remove the ancient retroviruses you are likely to get reinfected, it's that you may have become dependent upon them...though this study is of those who turn out to be naturally missing genes thought necessary. But mitochondria, among other organelles, were originally infectious bacteria, and we'd die without them. Ancient retroviruses are more difficult to identify, but there's no reason to believe they aren't equally important. Evolution works with what's on hand, it doesn't pay attention to where it came from.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  12. Mmmmh by nospam007 · · Score: 0

    " Search the DNA of people from a culture in which marrying a relative is common"

    Kansas?

    1. Re:Mmmmh by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      " Search the DNA of people from a culture in which marrying a relative is common"
      Kansas?

      No, they said culture

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  13. there is a lot we don't need by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 3, Insightful

    there is a lot of DNA that encodes for stuff we don't need... until we do. you could remove lots of genes that are only active under certain conditions if you can be sure you will never meet those conditions. however, the optimal evolutionary pattern is to hedge your bets.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    1. Re:there is a lot we don't need by Dr.+Bombay · · Score: 2

      Exactly. Just like you don't need a seat belt to drive a car.
      The parameter space that can be easily probed is too small to say for certain that a gene is not needed.

    2. Re:there is a lot we don't need by HiThere · · Score: 1

      You are assuming that it *IS* useful. That's the conservative assumption, and for any particular gene it may be true. But many have never been useful, and are just random mutations that happened to be carried along. See "Neutral Drift". Others are actively harmful, but not harmful enough to have been selected out ... yet. Others were at one point useful, and would still be useful if the original occasion reoccurred. Others were once useful, but have since mutated into forms that are just useless...or at any rate useless for the original purpose. See the eyes of "blind cave fish" and the mammalian ear (which started out as parts of a jaw bone). There's LOTs of other examples. Check out the evolutionary history of any part of your body and you'll find out that it once did something else. (Well, perhaps not the skin. And sometimes you need to trace it fairly far back. Eyes appear to have started in the Cambrian or Pre-Cambrian, e.g., but once were skin.)

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  14. Jumping to conclusions? by kheldan · · Score: 3, Informative

    I'm under the impression that much (if not all) of the so-called 'junk DNA' that seemingly does nothing, is more like 'error handling' or 'conditional' code that rarely, if ever, gets activated -- but that might save our lives. For instance, a recent Slashdot story: Viral 'Fossils' In Our DNA May Help Us Fight Infection

    --
    Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
  15. Define "need" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Trump has proven you don't need a frontal lobe to make lots of money.

  16. interesting but not quite what you think by ooloorie · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Most of our genes don't do much of anything most of the time. But that's true of many things in our environment. Car analogy? I can sabotage your headlights, your seat belts, your rear seats, your locks, your airbags, your dome lights, your climate control, your emission filters and catalytic converter and... you might not even notice until months later. That doesn't mean that those items don't have any function.

    In fact, large numbers of genes probably exist only to be used when you are sick or environmentally stressed. Many other genes give you redundant functionality, or functionality that individually only increases your performance on some task a little bit. Many genes have significant effects only in the brain, where it is very hard to find differences.

    Don't get me wrong: the information that some gene can be deleted without being lethal is useful information. But it doesn't mean that you "don't need them".

    1. Re:interesting but not quite what you think by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most of our genes don't do much of anything most of the time. But that's true of many things in our environment. Car analogy?

      Not exactly. Evolution works by duplication. Imagine a car with three steering wheels where one of the steering wheels has also evolved to help keep the passenger side door connected to the rest of the car. And another steering wheel has evolved to apply a slight extra pressure to the break peddle to compensate for the fact that the breaks are starting to wear out. And the original steering wheel has evolved some additional functionality as a cup holder.

      But the motivation for this research is that there are some people with genetic disorders that make them very sick even under normal conditions. Most people have a lot of genes that are not functional. In most cases, it's enough to only have one working copy. But people who marry their cousins often end up inheriting pieces of DNA that originated in a common ancestor of both the mother and father. So they will have relatively long regions (megabases) where they are homozygous - where they have two identical copies of each gene - in particular both copies of certain genes will be non-functional.

      If you know which genes can be completely knocked out (both copies bad) then it helps figure out with genes are causing disease in people with rare genetic disorders.

  17. It's shift code, not nonsense code by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    God, you boomers are so out of it. miRNA, circRNA, sRNA, mRNA all show that our genome uses environmental triggers to shift express different proteins to adapt to different environmental conditions. You've even got tertiary metabolic pathways that express when you suppress the first two pathways with medications.

    Look, it's not noise DNA. It's there for a reason. You just aren't in the environmental conditions needed to cause it to express itself.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  18. I think you need all your Genes by seniorhomecares · · Score: 1

    People messing with their genes are gonna turn out more messed up. Dont mess with recent scientific studies

  19. Spaghetti code need not be a factor by VernonNemitz · · Score: 2

    "one healthy mother completely lacked a gene called PRDM9 that is involved in shuffling chromosomes during the formation of eggs and sperm. Mice lacking the gene are sterile."
    The researchers might need to take another look at that woman; she might be a "chimera", whose reproductive organs don't have the same DNA as the part of the body responsible for a more-easily-tested substance (usually blood or saliva).