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Apple's Recycling Initiatives Recover $40 Million In Gold (macrumors.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the reuse-and-recycle dept.

An anonymous reader writes: Apple released its latest annual environmental report yesterday with numbers detailing how much the company has been able to recover from old devices. Business Insider notes that Apple was able to recover over 61 million pounds of steel, aluminum, glass, and other materials from its computers and iPhones. This includes a total of 2,204 pounds of gold worth $40 million at current prices ($1,229.80 per troy ounce of gold). Cult of Mac ran the figures quoted by Apple through today's metal prices, and came up with individual figures for copper ($6.4 million), aluminum ($3.2 million), silver ($1.6 million), nickel ($160,426), zinc ($109,503), and lead ($33,999). Last month, Apple unveiled an iPhone recycling robot, named Liam, that salvages old parts.

44 of 138 comments (clear)

  1. corpse robbers by goombah99 · · Score: 3, Funny

    I wanted my Iphone laid to rest as I knew it in life.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re:corpse robbers by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      With a cracked screen and bad reception?

      --
      Eat the rich.
  2. Missing Detail: Cost of Extraction by delt0r · · Score: 1, Interesting

    And they only spent 100M recovering the said gold. Bargain and twice the price

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    If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
    1. Re:Missing Detail: Cost of Extraction by The+Raven · · Score: 1

      Experimental program not instantly profitable? Say it isn't so!

      I'm sure they can improve the efficiency of the extraction process.

      --
      "I will trust Google to 'do no evil' until the founders no longer run it." Hello Alphabet.
    2. Re:Missing Detail: Cost of Extraction by SeaFox · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not everything is about making a profit. Sometimes the doing right thing for the environment is a price worth paying.
      I think that might have even been their whole idea with this, too...

    3. Re: Missing Detail: Cost of Extraction by ATMAvatar · · Score: 1

      Most likely, it's done with aqua regia.

      --
      "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    4. Re:Missing Detail: Cost of Extraction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      > Sometimes the doing right thing for the environment is a price worth paying.

      right. and what do they do with the rest of the components - the ones that aren't made of gold? the ones that aren't worth using again?

    5. Re: Missing Detail: Cost of Extraction by tlhIngan · · Score: 2, Informative

      Right for the environment? What chemical processes do they use? What amount of toxic chemicals are used? How does it compare to not chopping the gadgets up so they can sell more new shinies?

      It's actually far cheaper to extract precious metals and such from e-waste than to mine it from the earth. The reason is simple - e-waste has a higher concentration of the metals than raw ore. So it's far cheaper to extract from e-waste than it is pull it out of the ground. And since it's easier, it's also less damaging on the environment since less energy is used extracting the metals.

      It's is generally the case too. If Apple's robot pre-sorts the mateirals you can get even higher extraction rates and less energy use overall.

    6. Re:Missing Detail: Cost of Extraction by zdzichu · · Score: 5, Informative

      That's the cost of following the law, being nice to environment is a side effect. Apple, as a device manufacturer is under *obligation* to recycle their phones, as long as they want to sell them in 700+ million market called Europe.
      Here is quick summary of ROHS 2002/95/EC and WEEE 2002/96/EC directives: https://lwn.net/Articles/68380...

      --
      :wq
    7. Re:Missing Detail: Cost of Extraction by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Sure - setup costs, but after a while capital equipment pays for itself.
      A testing place I used to work at recovered the silver from used photographic chemicals and it added up over time. Gold is potentially easier to recover in bulk since a lot of chemicals dissolve just about everything else leaving the gold behind. Using mercury makes it even easier to got the gold :)

    8. Re:Missing Detail: Cost of Extraction by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 1

      This isn't experimental. Electronic companies have been doing this for decades! Apple, like normal, are last to the table and pretend they're the first to come up with the idea. People like you fall for it every single time. What a bizarre world you must live in.

      -citation needed-

      My understanding was that the companies were only doing this because government regulation in certain countries required them to. I would be interested in some sources to indicate who is recycling and since when. Promises that they are going to do something doesn't count.

      --
      Jumpstart the tartan drive.
    9. Re: Missing Detail: Cost of Extraction by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 1

      Just curious, but is it still cheaper once shipping to countries where manufacturing takes place is factored in?

      --
      Jumpstart the tartan drive.
    10. Re: Missing Detail: Cost of Extraction by Asha2004 · · Score: 1

      In the Netherlands some form of recycling electronics is obligatory since 1998. So even Apple must have been doing it since then. I don't know what apple is doing themselves now but there are many companies which specialize in the dismantling of electronics.

    11. Re: Missing Detail: Cost of Extraction by Zumbs · · Score: 2

      Bulk shipping is extremely cheap. My uncle asked a guy working with international bulk shipping about the price, and was told that box with a pair of shoes cost less than half a US dollar to ship from Asia to Europe. That was ten years ago, but I have no reason to expect that it has gotten significantly more expensive since then.

      --
      The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head
    12. Re:Missing Detail: Cost of Extraction by Afty0r · · Score: 1

      OOOPS! Should read:

      "Making a loss" is the financial equivalent of "Environmentally unsustainable"

    13. Re: Missing Detail: Cost of Extraction by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      If only Apple had hired somebody on-staff who understood their job as thoroughly and completely as you do.

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      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    14. Re:Missing Detail: Cost of Extraction by BasilBrush · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Different thing. There's two existing approaches to recycling electronics

      1) Shred the electronics, then roughly sort the resulting shreds by magnets, density, size, optical properties, manual sorting etc.

      2) Ship it to a third world country where children will end up recycling by dismantling with hammers and open fires.

      Apple's approach is a new one. Because all the models they are recycling are there's and they know how they are constructed, they have robots reverse the process, unscrewing, unclipping and ungluing each part down to it's components. And they know exactly what's in each of those components, and the components can be recycles on mass.

      This is far more efficient than the other methods, better for the environment, and doesn't damage worker's health.

    15. Re: Missing Detail: Cost of Extraction by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      I think the main thing is that Apple is inusual in that they have both immense volumes and a very, very limited product range on a relatively large, expensive product. As a result they are probably one of the only cases where it's worth making a robot specifically to deal with dismantling one or a tiny range of different products.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    16. Re: Missing Detail: Cost of Extraction by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Most of that "dismantling" is either with a shredder, or shipped to the third world for hammer and open fire recycling though.

    17. Re: Missing Detail: Cost of Extraction by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      You can send a whole shipping container full of stuff between most countries not opposed from one another on the globe for around five grand. How many boxes of shoes can you get into a shipping container?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    18. Re:Missing Detail: Cost of Extraction by funwithBSD · · Score: 1

      Don't worry, next year we will see the cast of "Gold Rush, 2.0" running the remains of shredded through their washplants.

      --
      Never answer an anonymous letter. - Yogi Berra
    19. Re:Missing Detail: Cost of Extraction by mi · · Score: 1

      Experimental program not instantly profitable? Say it isn't so!

      So, is the experiment a success in your opinion? They've extracted a total of about $52 million dollars worth of material for the cost of $100 million...

      Do you expect it to become profitable some time in the future?

      I'm sure they can improve the efficiency of the extraction process.

      They'll need to not just improve, but double it just to break even. That recycling is a fraud is increasingly obvious — even its cheerleaders have to cite consumers' liking products made from recycled materials to support claims, that it is profitable. Those with a totalitarian streak acknowledge, that without increasing government oppression (such as banning plastic bags in supermarkets) the recycling is too difficult and expensive.

      Apple is not doing it for (direct) profit. They expect clueless customers to feel better — and buy more — thus helping the profit indirectly.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    20. Re:Missing Detail: Cost of Extraction by funwithBSD · · Score: 1

      Trump 2020: Bring Unmanufacturing Back to America!

      Sorry, the thought of Un-manufacturing things is pretty cool, but the bombardment of political ads made me go there...

      --
      Never answer an anonymous letter. - Yogi Berra
    21. Re:Missing Detail: Cost of Extraction by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      That's the cost of following the law, being nice to environment is a side effect. Apple, as a device manufacturer is under *obligation* to recycle their phones, as long as they want to sell them in 700+ million market called Europe. Here is quick summary of ROHS 2002/95/EC and WEEE 2002/96/EC directives: https://lwn.net/Articles/68380...

      Others follow that law by sending their stuff to Africa or China. That's lower cost.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    22. Re:Missing Detail: Cost of Extraction by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      Experimental program not instantly profitable? Say it isn't so!

      So, is the experiment a success in your opinion? They've extracted a total of about $52 million dollars worth of material for the cost of $100 million.

      Actually, it was just a cost of $5,37. See I can pull numbers from your ass too.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    23. Re:Missing Detail: Cost of Extraction by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      True, but if you're making a loss, that just means someone else (or you) is paying for the task. That means that eventually that money will run out, and you will have to stop doing the task.

      That's only true if the loss on the one task is larger than your entire profit.

      We recover $40 mil of gold, but at a cost of $100 mil. Okay, that's a loss on this one task. But what is that cost spread out over all those iPhones we recycled? Still a loss, but a small one per unit. Now remember that Apple is the only iPhone maker, so every one of those iPhones they recycled they also sold and made a profit on once upon a time. How much profit did they make from each iPhone back then? The loss of recycling the old iPhone is only a small niche out of the slice of profit pie from the device's initial sale.

      Apple gains good PR by the recycling program and what's more, by doing the recycling program Apple's impact on their profits with the action are lessened because they are recovering valuable precious metals for themselves in the process. You can think of the recycling program as a small "brand marketing" cost against their profits on the device this way.

    24. Re:Missing Detail: Cost of Extraction by mi · · Score: 1

      Actually, it was just a cost of $5,37. See I can pull numbers from your ass too.

      The $100 mln figure appears in delt0r's post above. I now realize, he said "if". The actual number is likely much bigger, actually — otherwise Apple would've been glad to publish it...

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    25. Re:Missing Detail: Cost of Extraction by delt0r · · Score: 1

      And often recycling is *worse* for the environment. I don't know if this is, probably not for heavy metal reasons. But just assuming recycling is green is factually incorrect.

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
    26. Re:Missing Detail: Cost of Extraction by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      Actually, it was just a cost of $5,37. See I can pull numbers from your ass too.

      The $100 mln figure appears in delt0r's post above. I now realize, he said "if". The actual number is likely much bigger, actually — otherwise Apple would've been glad to publish it...

      Yeah, sorry, it was only $3,49. Stop making up stuff, boy.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    27. Re:Missing Detail: Cost of Extraction by zdzichu · · Score: 1

      Yeah, if Apple send their stuff to China, the recipient would be Apple. They are manufactures from start to end of chain, they have noone to offload recycling to.

      --
      :wq
    28. Re:Missing Detail: Cost of Extraction by mi · · Score: 1
      In the absence of actual data, speculating is perfectly justified. And it is not my laziness — Apple is playing the cards close to chest. From a rather laudatory article about Apple:

      Apple declined to comment on how much it cost to build Liam.

      Ask yourself why?... The same article adds:

      While Liam makes up the entire system, its 29 robotic helpers do the handy work. [...] It's clear this is a well-oiled operation; after all, it took years to perfect

      Do you honestly believe, this required less than a $100 mln dollar initial investment? The 30 robots plus facility itself cost more — not counting the research, that has gone into it. For comparison, Intel's new chip-making plant in Arizona cost $5 bln just to build — fifty times more... Maybe, now that they have it, the marginal costs of running it can be paid off by the extracted materials themselves? Maybe... But, if this were actually true — or even close to being true — Apple would've been the first to point it out. For it would've looked much better to both the customers and the investors than the current secrecy.

      Stop making up stuff, boy.

      Talk decent, young lady, or you'll find yourself conversing with a mirror...

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    29. Re:Missing Detail: Cost of Extraction by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      So you make up stuff based on truthiness. Big news - in lack of evidence people often make errors of several orders of magnitude, mostly because their brain is dazed with hatred.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    30. Re:Missing Detail: Cost of Extraction by mi · · Score: 1
      Speculation is not "making stuff up" — it is perfectly valid to inquire, how much they've spent and, in the absence of a clear answer, attempt to estimate.

      You've now missed the third chance to offer your own estimates or explain, why mine are incorrect. This confirms, you aren't arguing here in good faith. I shall not continue. *Plonk*...

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    31. Re:Missing Detail: Cost of Extraction by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      "Speculation" based on false premises and massively over-estimated numbers is fucking making stuff up. Stop it.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    32. Re:Missing Detail: Cost of Extraction by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      What the fuck, do you actually believe an industrial robot costs several million bucks a piece? Every year? What does the cost of a production facility (ignoring that it is in a barely related industry) have to do with the cost of a recycling facility? A junk yard cost orders of magnitude less than a car plant.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    33. Re:Missing Detail: Cost of Extraction by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      I would be interested in some sources to indicate who is recycling and since when.

      I was triaging computers (well, signal conditioner I/O cards, and boards from backplane systems) for "repair" or "recycle" back in the late 1980s and early 1990s. Because we could not get replacements, and the "new wonderful" system was 3 years overdue. The recycling company paid more if we levered the chips out of their sockets and bagged the stripped boards separately from the cards.

      The day that one of our technicians attended a barn sale somewhere in Nebraska and acquired a hundred or so 8-channel chart recorder units extended the global lifetime of that system by at least 2 years, or a couple of thousand man-years.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  3. troy ounce by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 2

    The troy ounce (oz t) is a unit of imperial measure, now commonly used to measure the mass (weight, in common parlance) of precious metals. One troy ounce is defined as exactly 31.1034768 g, which may be used to denote the value of a precious metal.

    so that's about $39,539 (USD) per kilogram of gold.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    1. Re:troy ounce by WolfgangVL · · Score: 1

      Accually, right now it $39.+change/g. aint metal cool? and holds its value!

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      You are being ripped off every second of every day, so that advertisers can help rip you off even more tomorrow.
    2. Re:troy ounce by WolfgangVL · · Score: 1

      Yes! Its Friday! Yes! We said the same thing. Yes! I've been drinking. Yes! Just YES! I have a chemist friend who says there is some magical chemical I can use to pull the plating off of all this hardware, but I'll have to give up all this wonderful 20 year old tech to do it...... I still haven't decided.... I'll use it someday.

      --
      You are being ripped off every second of every day, so that advertisers can help rip you off even more tomorrow.
  4. Not to confuse with the avoirdupois ounce by DavidMZ · · Score: 2

    The troy ounce is about 10% heavier (ratio 192/175) than the avoirdupois ounce, used for everyday purposes in the United States, which equals 28.349523125 g.

    Interestingly, the wikipedia page continues with:

    Troy ounces are still often used in precious metal markets in countries that otherwise use the metric system

    Whereas the French page says it is in use mainly in English-speaking countries for precious metals. Yet, in a funny twist of history:

    The name "troy" is first attested in 1390. Though it is often connected to a fair at the city of Troyes, France, this story may have been invented in the 18th century.

    Of course, the French page does not say anything about the story being apocryphal.

  5. Yes ... but by dbIII · · Score: 1

    A lot of the gold being produced today is in ores containing other metals such as copper, silver and uranium.

  6. Its about removing used phones from market by perpenso · · Score: 1

    Its not just about greening Apple's image and making customers feel good. It is also about removing used phones from the market. To interfere with a secondary market (used) that is competing with the primary market (new).

  7. Another missing detail: Secondary Market by perpenso · · Score: 1

    And they only spent 100M recovering the said gold. Bargain and twice the price

    Your missing something. Apple's 100M effort to remove used phones from the secondary market (used) in order to reduce competition for the primary market (new) is subsidized to the amount of 40M by recycling the phones removed from the market. Plus there is a further subsidy through public relations and brand image from the greening this program offers.

    And the upcoming robotic disassembly may yield to more efficient recycling/recovery than shredding and other current methods.

  8. Re:Seems high by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

    Doesn't this number sound a little high? They've recovered 61 million pounds of material? Older iphones weighed about 5 ounces, so let's say 3 phones per pound. This means they've recycled 183 million iphones?

    How many iphones actually get recycled? I know I still have all of mine (actually my kids have them)

    I'm calling BS

    What makes you think this is only iPhones? Didn't you even read the whole summary?

    --
    Of course news about a fake are Fake News.