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Joking About Giving Money To ISIS Can Cost You Money (arstechnica.com)
Reader rudy_wayne writes: A person who was using Venmo, an app that allows people to send money to each other via their phones, sent $42 to repay a friend, and jokingly labelled it "ISIS Beer Fund". He immediately got an e-mail from Venmo questioning the purpose of the money. Although he tried to explain "The $42 was payment to a dear friend for two pitchers of Samuel Adams Boston Lager" he was informed "Due to OFAC regulations, we are not allowed to give the funds back to you or issue a refund." The Treasury Department's Office of Foreign Assets Control is a 54-year-old institution, quietly working to keep money out of the hands of America's enemies.From the report, "It turns out -- shockingly -- this isn't the first time someone's Venmo transaction was cut off at the knees with a reference to subjects that are a matter of national security. Venmo won't explicitly say what words will trigger blockage, Gawker pointed out in October.
~nt~
Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
Why would they read and analysed the reason of the transfer... I guess this will drive people using other technique such as Bitcoin.
Do they really think that the terrorists explicitly mark the reason for their payments?
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
I actually went to school with a girl who was named Isis. Guess she's going to have a hard time accepting money from anyone!
Well, it works for tax-evasion accusations — why not for terrorism ones?
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
So it is enough to mention 'OFAC regulation' to steal money without consequences? Sue the bastards.
Taking them to court for $42 doesn't really seem worth it, especially considering in the article that was published he admitted knowing what he was doing (but probably drunk).
1$1$, actually a dollar sign can be drawn with two vertical lines close to each other over one S. Obviously U$A money are all about funding terrorism....
You can't handle the truth.
Why does the Office of Foreign Assets Control regulations apply to an unarguably domestic transaction?
Is this some sort of goofy legal technicality that because the transaction went through the internet they routed it to an off shore server and back just so they could listen in?
When I use money for illegal purposes I use money orders!
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
this may be the first time done as a joke. The others were likely intended for ISIS, or AQ, or Taliban, or North Korea, etc. . IOW, we have plenty of enemies that work in America and send home. Just like Europe and any other free nation.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
In a sane and just society, civil court wouldn't be the right place to deal with it. In reality, this is a simple issue of theft and all the guy should have to do is file a police report and wait for the perp at Venmo to get arrested.
But of course, we live in an insane and unjust society where essential rights are allowed to be abrogated by contract law. Until we fix that, we will never progress.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Everyone knows that you put "Sensual Massage" in the memo field on checks and other such transfers. Unless you're paying a big corporate entity. Then you probably ought to be serious and put an account number.
In a sane and just society, civil court wouldn't be the right place to deal with it. In reality, this is a simple issue of theft and all the guy should have to do is file a police report and wait for the perp at Venmo to get arrested.
As part of the complaint he can allege that Venmo may be in receipt of terrorist funds. Oh the irony drips from his pen.
I once transferred money from my savings to checking account and wrote 'supplies for meth production' in the optional for section and it was rejected.
Taking them to court for $42 doesn't really seem worth it, especially considering in the article that was published he admitted knowing what he was doing (but probably drunk).
Making a joke, even in poor taste isn't against the law unless explicitly defined such as yelling "Fire!" in a theater. The amount should be of secondary importance compared to the principle of standing up to anyone who confiscates your money when you have broken no laws that would give them legal standing to do so.
The rules vary by location and such but in general, getting small amounts of money that are rightly owed to you is precisely what small claims court is for. You generally do not need a lawyer for most small claims suits.
Sadly, on average we have become an extremely lazy and complacent society. The entities that want to take your rights away know this and have gamed the system by purposely making it inconvenient to stand up for your rights. Nothing will change until people stop being lazy and stand up for their rights even if it is inconvenient and requires some effort.
It's called Paypal, Millenials.
If you're trolling, then reel these in:
https://bgr.com/2015/05/20/paypal-credit-scam-25-million/
http://fortune.com/2012/02/24/ebays-got-a-paypal-problem/
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/online/paypal_02.html?page=2
That's just the tip of the iceberg. I refuse to use PayPal, and anybody who doesn't take some other means of payment, doesn't get my business.
'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
saw my old friend at the airport.
That doesn't make sense. The government has been funding ISIS (and Al Qaeda, more money is made by playing both sides) for years. Must be part of the overall power grab the government has been engaged in since the turn of the century.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Land of the Free Home of the Brave. Or as I like to say in cases like this: Land of the oppressed, home of the wussies.
That will fool those silly computerized judgment whores.
...it was an Intramural Soccer Inebriation Stipend.
That's as much of an app as Venmo. Either gives you the option of using the web site instead.
Due process died a long time ago. Now the rule is "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand it's gone!"
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
So Venmo thinks it is acceptable to take someone's money away on arbitrary suspicion of wrongdoing without explanation?
No. They can see Figure 1.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled"
Taking them to court for $42 doesn't really seem worth it
This is exactly what they are counting on.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
As stated in the subsequently linked article, it is not some weird mystery / secret what words are flagged. Dept. of Treasury maintains an easily accessible list of "Specially Designated Nationals" which is their compilation of probably most/all of the keywords that will be searched to find if there are matches.
In this case, "ISIS" is all over that document, like in 30 different places.
More relevantly, it's a wake up notice to share-everything 20-y.o.s to be aware that not everything is a happy go lucky social media commenting platform with no consequences. And Venmo should make that clearer to users that the comment field is not just a joke.
for the Panamanian tax evasion account. They let that through automatically.
In reality, this is a simple issue of theft and all the guy should have to do is file a police report and wait for the perp at Venmo to get arrested.
Extremely well put.
[nt]
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
No sense of humor. No sense.
ISIS is also the name used for a scanner driver typr for scanners...
Fujitsu has ISIS drivers.
ISIS is also an FLA for "Is Stupid? Is Silly?"
So everyone, add spook.lines to your outgoing money transfers.
^ https://github.com/emacs-mirror/emacs/blob/master/etc/spook.lines
isn't against the law unless explicitly defined such as yelling "Fire!" in a theater.
Sigh, not this again.
There is no law against yelling fire in a theater, even if there isn't a fire, and even if it's a crowded theater.
However, the law does hold you responsible for your actions. So, if you cause a panic, by yelling fire or dropping your pants or whatever, and people panic and get hurt, you will be held responsible for the damage and harm you caused.
But if you yell fire, and nobody reacts because they know you're a dumb joker, then you won't get fined or punished, because there are no laws against that. Unless you keep doing it, ignore requests to leave the premises, and get arrested for trespassing.
He was in trouble for two reasons actually: Bootlegging and Terr Funding.
As Bugs Bunny would say: What a maroon!
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
My experiences with border customs has led me to the conclusion that
U.S. law enforcement ist mostly designed to deal with wisecrackers.
"No ma'am, we at the FBI do not have a sense of humor we're aware of."
Depends on the town. Here in Austin, $21 is actually cheap for a pitcher of craft beer. Heck, a hamburger + fries + drink is $50-$60 at some places in town, and that's not the ritzy downtown places either.
Surely the money can't remain with Venmo?
I would have thought that it would have to be remitted to a government department complete with a report detailing why it was seized, who the people involved in transaction were etc etc. Otherwise you have a massive incentive to a company to make up reasons to seize money and you are not providing any evidence to the security forces that would want to track money to terrorist organisations.
If the money is sent to OFAC or similar it should be possible to have that money returned to you on completion of 200 forms and waiting 11.5 months.
Fine tidbit: The fire in a theater quote was originally from a Supreme Court ruling (and now considered one of the worst of all time) that went on to do a lot more than outlaw stirring up a stampede needlessly, and uphold a law making it illegal to publish pamphlets that urged people to "resist the draft using all legal means", during WW I.
The ruling argued it interfered with Congress' power to raise armies via recruitment. The judge who authored it soon changed his mind, but it was not overturned until freaking 1969.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
you get what you fucking vote for.
Or, "I am Sending money In dollarS"
My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
Who the hell is paying $21+ for a pitcher of beer? Stated that he was only paying for his portion and tip for the two pitchers so does that make it really $42 per pitcher? You can buy a damn keg for that much money.
I guess that depends upon the beer, the size of the pitcher, and the hipsterosity of the drinker. I can tell you that 22 oz bottle of Deimos (a red ale from Ecliptic Brewing in Portland, OR) goes for $9. I don't know what their keg price is, but I'm pretty comfortable thinking it's more than $42.
Muslims don't drink alcohol. Bit of a problem there.
Something similar has already been happening to weeabos, who use the term Nico, meaning a smile. Usually either in context referring to the video website Nico Nico Douga or to Nico Tanigawa's catchphrase "Nico-Nico-nii".
Unfortunately, there's also some Iranian corporation by name of NICO, so the term ends up triggering a flag somewhere.
http://www.alternet.org/news-a...
You want to coordinate a cyber attack against a financial institution under the name of a known terrorist organization?
Well, it's a bold strategy, lest see if it works out for you.
In the middle of London, just outside Fenchurch Street station: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/...
And 50 metres away: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/...
we'll get lucky, and the Victorious Islamic State Army will be formed.
Guy had work done on his Toyota and used the service to send money, as it wasn't a dealership.
He also had his money stolen and refused to be returned to either payer or payee.
http://www.wheel-size.com/size...
There is a Toyota Isis the morons have zero common sense.
They just scam with arbitrary keywords. Paypal/Capital One/Discover/Bank Debit cards don't care about "comments" they look only when it goes outside the U.S. to verify.
ISIS was the name of a payment processing system that just recently changed it's name as well as the name of a goddess, so I don't think there is ANY rational reason to penalize people for using just those 4 letters. Now, if he said "Daesh beer fund", on the other hand, I could see it. By the way, you know when ISIS refers to themselves, they use Arabic, not the English language acronym, right?
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
It's been confiscated? Pretty sure that's not legal, it's called theft.
I'm not a fan of intercepting money this way, but I don't think we can eliminate it completely. But there should be some straightforward and rapid way for the money to be sent on its way as soon as someone has made a cursory investigation. Something like this lends itself to a ridiculous number of false positives (like this one).
How's this not a blatant violation of the Fourth Amendment? The one that says: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
We can't blame a company for using code word triggers to hold up a payment, but the false positives should cost them. Send the money back and make the algorithms better. When every Joe has to alter behavior to please the algorithms, the machines have already won.
Yet another company that I will never have any dealings with. I suggest everyone else follow and spread the word.
Taking them to court for $42 doesn't really seem worth it,
Taking them to court for $42 PLUS legal expenses PLUS the cost of time off from work.
This is exactly what they are counting on.
At this point, you'd think there would be a whole industry of companies you could sell your interest in the $42 to, who would give you five bucks and automate the process of suing the parasites to hell.
But of course, we live in an insane and unjust society where essential rights are allowed to be abrogated by contract law.
Using PayPal is an essential right?
You want to use their system, why shouldn't you agree to their terms? You aren't forced to use it. It's a convenience for you.
The biggest insanity of society today is the number of conveniences that people are now claiming as essential rights.
But of course, we live in an insane and unjust society where essential rights are allowed to be abrogated by contract law.
Using PayPal is an essential right?
You want to use their system, why shouldn't you agree to their terms? You aren't forced to use it. It's a convenience for you.
The biggest insanity of society today is the number of conveniences that people are now claiming as essential rights.
Right. So if your local movie chain (or insert any other commercial operation) puts some obscure rainy day clause in small writing on the movie ticket, you won't complain if you sit in the movie and they announce they aren't going to show the movie or give you a refund?
This is about the right to not be defrauded. It might not make the top 3 inalienable rights, but it sure as hell is enshrined into law in a dozen different ways. If you want to live in a capitalistic society, this is the one thing you need to ensure it doesn't completely collapse.
walk into the ISIS beer fund bar
The bartender looks up and says, "Whaaaat???? Is this some kind of joke????"
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
Everyone tagging this story "police state" apparently has no idea what constitutes a police state.
1. Become a worshipper of the Egyptian goddess, Isis. 2. Create the ISIS Beer Fund 3. Wait for Venmo to pull the plug 4. Sue the pants off of them for violating your religious freedom 5. PROFIT!
Are they allowed to get on a plane anymore?
Ah, that's cute. You think it's just limited to people of a certain age and that it will get better with time.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
There is a river in England, called the Isis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Isis. Don't, whatever you do, try to help fund any conservation projects.
Similarly, purchases from Isis Fluid Control systems, are now strictly forbidden! http://www.isis-fluid.co.uk/
However, the worst one, is ISIS's own R&D spin-off in Oxford. http://isis-innovation.com/.
Don't go here: http://isisltd.co.uk/
To do this myself, and do it for over $2500 so it doesn't end up in small claims court.
Fuck these sycophants and their masters. Sharing financial information with the government is a betrayal of your customers.
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
http://www.isisshriners.com/
or
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
or
buying anything from the likely thousands of people in the world with the name Isis.
OFAC really isn't this dumb, this processor just is. Most OFAC scrubbing software only flags or blocks transactions and it is up to the financial institution to manually vet the transaction after any required reporting. The false positive rate in OFAC name matching is often listed as 50+%.
Americans typically use these boxes, in this order:
o Idiot box
o Cereal box
o Idiot box
o Amazon box
o Idiot box
o Comment box
o Idiot box
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
It's not just about being lazy. Think about how much of everything is centered around on wearing your done completely so that you no longer have energy to fight back and will just pay up. Making threats of lawsuit hold no weight, you actually have to go and file the paperwork. I'm rather overworked at the moment, and don't have time to deal with going to small claims over $42 - the opportunity cost for me for that is too high. And yet I would really love it if somebody kicked the shit out of whoever thought that ISIS == Daesh. Besides, does Daesh actually allow for the consumption of alcohol? I don't think the Wahabi'ists in Saudi do, but don't know about Daesh.
Right. So if your local movie chain (or insert any other commercial operation) puts some obscure rainy day clause in small writing on the movie ticket,
Of course I will complain about it. But I won't try claiming that watching a movie in their theater is some kind of essential right. I'll take them to small claims if I need to, but small claims court isn't about enforcing "essential rights", it's about enforcing contracts and reasonable terms in such. Like the fitness of purpose, etc.
This is about the right to not be defrauded.
I'm sorry, what? You forgot about the right of free people to enter into contracts here.
If you want to live in a capitalistic society, this is the one thing you need to ensure it doesn't completely collapse.
You need to ensure that contracts don't contain invalid or one-sided terms, but once that's done, the law should end. Trying to claim that seeing a movie is an essential right is far outside of the scope of the law.
Shows the absolute ridiculousness of security. Newsflash - real terrorists don't go about with the word 'terrorist' written on their foreheads. Also shows that 'Venmo' are NOT to be trusted..
Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..
So let me make up an example story.
You're going on vacation or business trip and call a cab to go to the airport. You put your luggage in the trunk, have a pleasant conversation on the way to the airport and after you pay the driver, he says: Sorry sir, but the trunk-security-system detected [something dangerous that is NOT in your luggage], your luggage is being safely destroyed, have a nice day.
You agreed to the "terms and conditions" of the cab company that they may scan your luggage and proceed as appropriate when they detect something dangerous. That seems entirely plausible and acceptable, until it hits a false positive and they are destroying YOUR property.
Somehow, it seems that SOME people feel "safe" that something is being done. But taking people's property because of a perceived threat is wrong. It would be acceptable if they say: "Your transfer triggered a double check, it will go through with a couple of days delay". If someone really thinks this is a serious threat, then go ahead and arrest the guy.
This is similar to the discrimination situation. It's all fun-and-games until it happens to you and they pick on you.
You agreed to the "terms and conditions" of the cab company that they may scan your luggage and proceed as appropriate when they detect something dangerous.
Wrong.
This is similar to the discrimination situation.
Joking about a payment being for ISIS isn't a discrimination situation.
deserves what they get. Sometimes life just sucks wtihout any help and sometimes you bring it on yourself