Microsoft's Windows 10 Upgrade Screen Interrupts Meteorologist's Live Forecast (hothardware.com)

Reader MojoKid writes: If you're a Windows 7 or Windows 8 user who hasn't yet upgraded to Windows 10, you've probably been bombarded at some point by Microsoft to upgrade, and not always at the most convenient times. Such was also the case with one meteorologist who saw a Windows 10 upgrade prompt show up during a very inopportune time -- right in the middle of a live forecast. Metinka Slater, a meteorologist with Des Moines CBS affiliate KCCI 8, was going about her business, giving viewers a rundown of the 12-hour rainfall totals in the area when a nagging Windows 10 upgrade screen popped up, just like it has for thousands of everyday Windows users. But rather than get flustered or give into Microsoft's demands, Slater laughed off the annoyance. "Ahh, Microsoft recommends upgrading to Windows 10. What should I do?" Slater joked. "Don't you love when that pops up?"From the looks of it, either the concerned computer is running Windows 98, or is using classic theme.

Comments

Here's a good idea

[Nidi62]

The TV station should send an invoice to Microsoft to bill them for the advertising time.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Bzzt. Unless Microsoft had previously issued a purchase order, there is exactly zero chance it would be paid.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

The government that governs least governs best.

This advert brought to you by Organized Crime Lobbying Services.

Re:Here's a good idea

[danomac]

This is the TV station's fault for not deploying their computers correctly. This issue has been known for months and months now and a fix has been around for quite a while. I don't expect casual home users to understand this but this is a business that should have some IT support. It's even easier on an active directory environment as these policies can be pushed automatically. These can also be set if you have a Pro edition of Windows.

I've confirmed this works in both domain and non-domain environments.

First, add a registry key in (this can be done with active directory quite easily, or locally on a non-domain machine):

HKLM\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows

New key: GWX
New DWORD: DisableGWX
New DWORD value: 0x1

Then edit the group policy (or local group policy):
Computer Configuration->Administrative Templates->Windows Components->Windows Update

Set "Turn off the upgrade to the latest version of Windows through Windows Update" to enabled.

The first disable the GWX nag app. The second prevents Windows Update from offering a new version of Windows (like WIn10.)

Re:Here's a good idea

[Mr.Intel]

Having worked IT for a TV station, i can tell you that the weather graphics workstations are often NOT on the local AD domain. This is deliberate and the local IT guy usually doesn't "own" that particular workstation. It's usually up to the weather guy and weather software vendor to provide support. Likely, this little insightful nugget was lost on that pair or they simply didn't care. Either way, it might not be the IT guy's fault at all.

Re:Here's a good idea

[oh_my_080980980]

You do understand sarcasm right....

Re:Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

> This is the TV station's fault for not deploying their computers correctly.

Captain Perfection Has Spoken.

I say it's Microsoft's fault for being so annoyingly intrusive and persistent.

Re:Here's a good idea

[kuzb]

If they want to bill anyone, they should bill their admins who obviously misconfigured the computer.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry but I have to say stfu with all this MS defending. If Microsoft wasn't trying to shove Win10 down everyone's throat via that deceptive dialog, none of this would be an issue. Enterprise or home edition, doesn't matter. Full stop.

Now if it had something to do with security or other non-marketing issue then yeah, slam their IT dep't. But this is solely under the purview of marketing.

TL;DR: Don't embarrass yourself by defending Microsoft's stupid marketing fuckup.

Re:Here's a good idea

[danomac]

There are plenty of reasons to have machines not connected to a domain. But you can still enforce policies locally as long as it's not a Home edition of Windows. What I mentioned originally works on non-domain-joined machines as well.

By IT support I'm referring to local IT and any external support (like you've mentioned.) This was totally preventable and if the weather software vendor is providing the machines they should have been aware long ago.

Re:Here's a good idea

[theskipper]

That's not true. As a matter of fact I'm trying to catch up on paying hundreds of invoices right now that were emailed to me recently. Only inconvenience is it's a pain to unzip each one.

Oh there's another one...back to it.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

It's the user's fault when their software is working against them?

Microsoft apologists always blame the user for Microsoft's low quality software. When Microsoft produce a trainwreck of a UI apologists blame users for not being able to learn how to use it. When Microsoft produce an operating system that collects your data and users object, apologists say it's the user being stupid and that data collection is fine. When Microsoft intentionally breaks Windows 7 in a variety of ways it's the user's fault for using ancient software.

Software you buy should be working for your benefit, not Microsoft's benefit. They shouldn't be hijacking your computer to try and force you to upgrade to Windows 10. They shouldn't be redesiging their UI to try and sell things through the Windows Store so they can take 30% of the proceeds. They shouldn't be treating your as a source of information to be harvested.

it's not the user's fault when Microsoft's software produces failures like this, it's Microsoft's fault.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

I say it's Microsoft's fault

Captain Slashdot Has Spoken

Re:Here's a good idea

[Jason Levine]

Thankfully, you should be able to pay them with all the money from those dead Nigerian princes.

As a side note, is "Nigerian prince" the world's most hazardous job? They're constantly dying off!

Re:Here's a good idea

[chispito]

Why mod this down? He's right.

If a Linux system message popped up during a live broadcast, people (here) would assume that the machine was misconfigured for their use case. There is a wealth of information on the Internet about how to deal with these messages, and if you don't have proper IT support to configure systems in your broadcast tool chain, you are clearly doing it wrong.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Bah. Automatic updates changed the configuration. The weather channel should have been able to get away with automatic at 3:30AM.

Re:Here's a good idea

[mysidia]

This is the TV station's fault for not deploying their computers correctly. This issue has been known for months and months now and a fix has been around for quite a while.

Not an initial deployment issue.

A surprising unwanted behavior introduced in a patch, that the administrator would not have noticed, unless they were reading many online articles about it.

If anybody's fault it's Microsoft's for not having provided the option Years ago, so they could opt-out of Nag Screens and Auto OS upgrades at the time of initial deployment, not AFTER deployment, with a new Opt-Out being required for Novel unwanted behavior.

However, I would just say it's an understandable accident that anybody could make. It's nobody's "Fault" other than Microsoft management/marketing deciding to introduce the Novel behavior with a NEW Opt-Out option, instead of one that could have been selected Along with the option to turn on Automatic Updates.... back in 2012, 2013, or 2014.

Re:Here's a good idea

[DigiShaman]

Like AVID, vertical market applications as a platform often have their own hardware support contract as well. Though to be honest, I had no idea this applied to meteorological software too. In fact, I'd (wrongly) just assume the animation sequences run on a typical Dell OptiPlex, Vostro, or what have you; the obvious back-end pre-calculated computation happening in a cluster not withstanding.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Mr.Intel]

TBH, I was surprised this was a windows box at all. It's been a while since I admined for a station, but the weather graphics were designed/rendered on an SGI box. Like the AVIDs, they had their own support contract. We did have a station IT administered Optiplex for the weather producer to put the segment together, but it was just an interface to the SGI's software. I'm sure that winsoft has caught up to SGI for this application and wouldn't be surprised if SGI was almost out of the market by now.

Re:Here's a good idea

[sexconker]

What about AllowOSUpgrade in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\OSUpgrade ?
This was the original, official way to control it. They then decided to ignore anyone who set AllowOSUpgrade to 0.

Then they put out the second piece you mention.
The registry location for this is DisableOSUpgrade in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate .
However the client needs a specific update installed for the setting to actually do anything. This update is not pushed out to WSUS servers, and thus is not pushed out to the majority of clients in a managed domain. It's only available via regular ass Windows Update. Further, there are no complete ADMX/ADML files available containing this definition so you can't set it via Group Policy Editor. They reluctantly put out updated ADMX/ADML files containing the definitions, but they were older, incomplete files. You have to take your existing policy definitions and manually merge the DisableOSUpgrade pieces into them.

<string id="DisableOSUpgrade_Title">Turn off the upgrade to the latest version of Windows through Windows Update</string>
<string id="DisableOSUpgrade_Help">Enables or disables the upgrade to the latest version of Windows through Windows Update.

If you enable this setting, Windows Update will not offer you an upgrade to the latest version of Windows.

If you disable or do not configure this setting, Windows Update might offer an upgrade to the latest version of Windows.</string>

<policy name="DisableOSUpgrade_Title" class="Machine" displayName="$(string.DisableOSUpgrade_Title)" explainText="$(string.DisableOSUpgrade_Help)" key="Software\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate" valueName="DisableOSUpgrade">
<parentCategory ref="WindowsUpdateCat" />
<supportedOn ref="WU_SUPPORTED_Windows7_Or_Win81Update" />
<enabledValue>
<decimal value="1" />
</enabledValue>
<disabledValue>
<decimal value="0" />
</disabledValue>
</policy>

If you already have one of the GWX updates installed you're fucked. DisableOSUpgrade didn't come about until hundreds of millions of machines had already been infected with GWX.

The DisableGWX piece you mention is the official way to suppress the GWX dialog. It does NOT remove GWX, it merely hides the popup. Anyone who has GWX still has it, and likely still has Windows 10 downloaded. The upgrade procedure can be initiated without the GWX dialog.

On top of all this, they bundled Windows 10 ads into an IE security update. The ads allow users to initiate the update process, regardless of DisableGWX, DisableOSUpgrade, or AllowOSUpgrade. The only thing saving you here is making sure users do not have the privileges to run the EXE located at http://www.microsoft.com/en-us... . I believe this installer will look for the Windows 10 installer in the default download location that GWX uses the same way the official "Media Creation Tool" for clean installation does.

This means that if a machine had GWX at one point (and most Windows 7 machines have had it), it likely already downloaded Windows 10. Nothing you mentioned removes GWX or the Windows 10 download. A privileged user running IE will see a Windows 10 ad. In 3 clicks and just a few seconds, they can install Windows 10.

Yo

Re:Here's a good idea

[Karlt1]

Why should any business have to go through this to disable spam that came with the OS?

Re:Here's a good idea

[UnknownSoldier]

Because's Microsoft didn't try to pull this upgrade ad shit with Windows XP, WIndows 7, or Windows 8 -- it wasn't until Windows 10 that they started spamming everyone.

The blames lies with both parties:

* Microsoft for spamming ads
* Anyone dumb enough to use Windows 10

Re:Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

OK, so what you are saying is that it is actually easier to just run Linux when it comes to stuff where you can't afford to have annoying popups?

Re:Here's a good idea

[war4peace]

It actually is the user's fault. The user accepted all that shit for numerous years instead of giving them a big fat fuck you. Microsoft pisses on users because they allow it. Who's to blame?

Re:Here's a good idea

[execthis]

Just install GWX Control Panel which not only disables it all, it can actively monitor in the background to prevent it ever becoming enabled again by Windows update.

Re:Here's a good idea

[bigfinger76]

This wasn't a system message, or an error. This was an advertisement/nagscreen.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Wrong.

This stupid popup installed itself as a virus on Windows 7 on my machine, presumably piggybacking on one of the system updates that you either apply or wait for your machine to get pwned

It's trying to persuade you into upgrading to Windows 10. Or, trick you, if you prefer. All it would have taken was one fat-fingered mouse click and the weatherman would have been treated to a half-hour OS upgrade right in the middle of trying to present weather graphics to the public. Something that would go down real well (/sarcasm) if it happened during a hurricane watch or tornado alert.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Drethon]

Pray tell the alternative that has the compatibility with all of the weather programs, probably written to run in windows?

Re:Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, this is an affiliate. It's entirely possible that the station may be part of a smaller organization that does not have the benefits of an AD structure such as CBS has.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Someday, Windows will be ready for the desktop. As long as we have to make cryptic changes to some configuration file somewhere to make it work, this year is not that year.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

You are like Wesley Crusher in that STNG episode where he refuses to play the game. JOIN US!

Re:Here's a good idea

[michelcolman]

That might work. Just send a mail to the invoice guys telling them to contact your financial manager at the nigerian address.

Re:Here's a good idea

[NotAPK]

Microsoft has completely overlooked an entire usergroup of people:

  - We have professional enterprise systems, often used for office tasks, but I would characterize them as being used for "common" or "like" tasks. These often get administered by a domain.

  - We have home use with no need for a domain.

  - Then we have what I call "stand alone" use where the computer is simply there to do ONE THING. Some examples, like in this article, are to render video, others to control instruments, machine control, kiosks or run display boards for foyers and lobbies. These computers are often not on domains.

Anyway, I think the new Win10 paradigms leave this third group entirely in the lurch and anyone making software for these use-cases will be looking away from Windows in droves.

Finally, I think Universities are also pretty unimpressed with Windows. The academic's computer station has traditionally been entirely under their control and so they are rarely a member of a domain; though I know some academics who tell me their local systems are all switching to central domain control, and they hate it. Anyway, I think these users are going to switch away from Windows in droves and OSX and Linux will gain even more groundshare in the academic community.

Re: Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck M$ all together,
Go back,
To the days
Of SGI.

Haiku

Re: Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

"Disabling IE often isn't an option because it's so baked into the OS and many other programs use it indirectly."

Ummm M$ got sued for this. I don't think this is the case anymore. I could be wrong. I haven't used IE on a Windows machine in 10 years it feels like.

Re:Here's a good idea

[chispito]

This wasn't a system message, or an error. This was an advertisement/nagscreen.

Because other operating systems don't notify you in any way when a new release is available?

Re:Here's a good idea

[Opportunist]

You know and I know, but we also both know that he'll be blamed.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Dutch Gun]

Let's just say that while there is "technically" a way to disable these popups, an administrator following best practices is simply keeping the machine patched, which introduced this behavior in the first place. If they had done the "wrong" thing and left that Windows 7 (presumably) machine unpatched, then this wouldn't have happened. Microsoft is eroding the trust of their patching system by abusing it to deploy non-critical patches that users don't want. Yes, one would hope that their IT dept is keeping up with news and should probably have anticipated this, but they shouldn't have HAD to.

Even as a Windows user/developer myself, there's no way I'd possibly try to justify how Microsoft is treating their users with such disrespect. It's insanely stupid, because Windows 10 is actually a pretty decent OS at its core, especially if you turn off the cloud fluff and advertising crap. Microsoft has done such damage to these products with their over-aggressiveness in this upgrade nagware and by foisting telemetry on older OSes. I'm not one that subscribes to the belief that Microsoft is "spying" on people, but they really should have given their users who don't feel that way a clear way of opting out globally.

It really astounds me how some companies are so willing to burn away customer goodwill for such short-term gains - like how Comcast pisses off a customer when they try to disconnect service by making the process as painful as possible - apparently in the hope that they'll give up and allow them to keep billing? This is the same sort of short-sighted idiocy, but of course, it's not like these CEOs are asking *my* opinion.

Re: Here's a good idea

[Drethon]

While I agree with the sentiment, the practicality leaves some to be desired.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Dutch Gun]

These days I'd recommend the freeware utility Never10, which uses the officially sanctioned MS method to disable the update, just wrapping it up in a tiny, easy-to-use utility. It provides some additional functionality as well, such as making sure you have the pre-requisite patches to do that, as well as optionally cleaning up any files previous downloaded by the Windows 10 update process.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Most other OS, and for that matter Windows before 10, were much more polite about doing the notification. Among other things, most notice was via normal messaging channels, which don't directly interfere with what you're trying to use the computer for in Real Life.

Re:Here's a good idea

[bondsbw]

If Microsoft wasn't trying to shove Win10 down everyone's throat via that deceptive dialog, none of this would be an issue.

Windows 10 upgrade isn't the only software that pops up dialogs occasionally.

Re:Here's a good idea

[WaffleMonster]

This is the TV station's fault for not deploying their computers correctly. This issue has been known for months and months now and a fix has been around for quite a while.

Where IT screwed up was not configuration of group policy it was selecting a vendor that is both untrustworthy and openly hostile to its customers.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

What exactly is deceptive about this dialog?

Re:Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

And I recall MS re-writing those keys as well. So no, it doesn't always work.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Darinbob]

I have the GWX app to guard against this. And I have taken to monitoring ALL Windows updates instead of just accepting them. So I thought I was ok. I suspect that when I used the app to download a Windows 10 ISO for use only inside a VM image that it shoved something in the back door. So a couple days ago the computer was very sluggish after booting up in, with Firefox not responding. So I popped up task manager to look. I see this task hogging the disk, something with a name implying it's a Windows compatibility checker or such (I forget the exact name). So I kill it. Then I run GWX again and it shows that I have two hidden Windows 10 download folders. Of course I delete those.

What was amazing is that on the forum site discussing the particular .exe someone from Microsoft pops in and says "this is supposed to do , is this causing a problem for your computer?" Sort of a drive-by offer of IT help from Lucifer. Of course everyone on the forum says it is causing major problems. I've seen this sort of reponse from Microsoft many times, with a sort of implied notion that if it's not impacting your performance then you should not worry about anything happening on your PC.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Darinbob]

No, it is very difficult to stamp down all uses of the Microsoft's Windows advertising. If you're smart, you can get the GWX stopper application. But you have to be on the ball and proactive all the time, and manually inspect each and every Windows update. Even then I found that there were Windows 10 download folders on my PC despite my heightened paranoia. So yes, go ahead and blame the local news reporter for not being savvy enough to prevent Microsoft's abusive marketing malware.

Re: Here's a good idea

[Darinbob]

MS got sued for it, and they ignored the lawsuit judgement until the punishment was effectively moot. Microsoft is not scare of something so puny as national governments.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for chiming in with irrelevant information.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Facts:
- I have a Windows 7 Pro installation on my computer.
- GWX is installed.
- GWX does not start up automatically at any time.
- GWX does not repair itself.
- GWX does not download further GWX-related updates.
- GWX does not pop up nag screens.
- GWX does not download a "just in case" copy of Windows 10.

Why? It's installed because it came in through a Windows Update that landed about as gracefully as a leaping hippo in a tutu. If you've ever seen Fantasia, you know what mental image I was going for there. It doesn't do anything automatically because I b0rked the task scheduler registry settings for its startup, repair watchdog, nag screen, and update tasks. And even if that were to get repaired by an update in the future, it can't pre-download a copy of Windows 10 because I locked it out of that file path. The download always goes to C:\$Windows.~BT. I created a text file in that location containing the text "Not a chance, bitches." and then set the security on the TrustedInstaller user to have explicit Deny on everything for that file. 22 bytes preventing ~6GB of downloaded bullshit. Winning.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Grishnakh]

I'm going to have to defend Microsoft on this one.

Microsoft has *every right* to try to shove Win10 down everyone's throat, using the slimiest tactics they can come up with, and making life as miserable as they want for their customers.

Customers, accordingly, have every right to not use Microsoft software.

If customers willingly submit themselves for this abuse, how is it Microsoft's fault? Microsoft's behavior here is now well-known, so customers (esp. businesses) really don't have an excuse.

You call this a "stupid marketing fuckup", but is it really? Will this cause Microsoft's revenues to rise or fall? That's the only thing that matters. If it pisses off so many customers that they end up losing customers and losing revenue, then it is indeed a fuckup. But if it gains more advertising revenue from existing customers, and royally pisses off customers but those customers refuse to abandon their support for Microsoft, then it's not a fuckup at all, it's actually a smart move.

This may sound completely sociopathic, and it is: Microsoft, like any corporation, is an amoral entity, run by sociopaths. It's up to customers to recognize this and not reward this behavior. If the customers refuse to do this, and insist on supporting sociopathic and abusive (but completely legal) behavior, what can you do? As the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink it.

Re:Here's a good idea

[mattventura]

No, actually, Debian has never nagged me to update anything. The only time I've been blatantly nagged to upgrade anything was the xscreensaver debacle. But in effect, that's third party software nagging me, not the OS itself.

Re:Here's a good idea

[TangoMargarine]

Somewhat frustratingly, I learned a few weeks ago that they had a new incremental update blob for Linux Mint since January and nobody had bothered to notify me. Even after doing an apt-get dist-upgrade. I had to additionally go into the package manager settings and there was a button in there somewhere to switch to the newer repos.

So yeah, no notification at all :P

Re:Here's a good idea

[Grishnakh]

I disagree. Call me a Microsoft apologist if you want: I happily defend their behavior here.

Companies have *every right* to treat their customers like total shit. Usually, this isn't very smart because such companies go out of business. Try running a restaurant where you berate your customers and provide them with horrible service and lousy food (but still not running afoul of food-safety laws) and see how long you stay in business. But if a restaurateur wants to do this, he has every right in my opinion, and according to the law too AFAICT.

Customers, by the same token, have *every right* to refuse to do business with shitty companies.

Now, if a company is not a monopoly (I don't think MS qualifies any more, what with Linux and Mac and Android/iOS tablets), it seems to me that it's the *user's* fault if he continues to patronize a company that abuses him. It may be inconvenient, but that's too bad: you don't have a right to convenience, or to having companies provide you the product/service you want and in the exact way that you want it. If you don't like the deal they're offering, and you don't like their after-the-sale customer service, then it's your responsibility to take your business elsewhere.

If customers refuse to do this, and insist on throwing their money at a company that treats them like shit, I'm sorry, but I can't blame the company for that. Blaming the company isn't going to change things after all. Blame them all you want: they'll just tell you, "yes, we accept your blame. Here's some more ads and some more shitty UIs, suckers!!! Hahahahaha!!! What are you going to do about it?"

Sitting around and whining about the bad behavior of someone who has no morals and no conscience and imploring them to "please be nice" is a waste of time and counterproductive. You can only change your own behavior, and if that means eliminating your dependence on that evil person, then that's what you need to do.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm the AC you're responding to and have to say your argument is 100% right. +5 Insightful.

Re:Here's a good idea

[HiThere]

It's a configuration issue, but most window managers will inform you occasionally (as settable intervals) if updates are available, or security updates. Still, the messages can be ignored if you're busy.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Grishnakh]

Either use an old version that doesn't run in Windows (apparently they used to run on SGI boxes), and/or demand that the weather program vendors make a version that doesn't use Windows. There's a lot more customers of these programs than suppliers; if the customers band together and make demands on the suppliers, the suppliers will be forced to act. If they don't, the customers should join forces and develop their own weather software collaboratively. It's not like these TV stations are competing with each other anyway, usually: TV stations are local/regional, and usually part of some national network. You don't think CBS, for instance, has the resources to hire a software team (or hire a vendor) to develop their own custom weather software?

Re:Here's a good idea

[HiThere]

To me this is clearly a fault system software fault. And that puts it clearly as Microsoft's fault.

You can call it a configuration issue if you want to, but the change in the configuration was made by a Microsoft patch, so it's still Microsoft's fault.

Or, I suppose you could say that the mistake was in applying a Microsoft approved update. But then you need to take some other approach to ensuring that your computer didn't get 0wn3d, and given the job that this computer had isolation from the internet isn't a viable solution.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

I love reading "blame the victim" comments from people who only imagine that they know all the particulars. Unless you work for the station in that capacity your "demonstration" of you vastly superior knowledge is just a vain display. The entire point of the article is to reinforce how badly Microsoft is handling this transition. One shouldn't need to "prepare" for bad things like this, it's just bad customer experience. Just to reinforce my point, 2 of my own kids had (Windows 7 Home Edition) automatically reboot. My eldest was in the middle of a nursing school test (yes, they allowed the use of the Laptop). The other was writing an in-class paper that had to be turned in late because the update process took over 30 minutes. Because they were running on "Home Edition" there was no way to prepare for this. It's idiotic, and blaming the consumer is more so.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm so glad that modern operating systems have moved away from obscure incantations for changing settings and moved to bring settings together in such a simple, coherent, well documented and logical manner. /sarcasm

Re:Here's a good idea

[mysidia]

You can call it a configuration issue if you want to, but the change in the configuration was made by a Microsoft patch

Yep. Microsoft is in Violation of the contract regarding Windows Update. Critical updates are security fixes that are not for the purpose of introducing new features, incompatibilities, or other breaking changes.

Addition of a nag screen is a breaking change.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Can you just stop with your half-baked crazy ideas?! -IT'S ALWAYS THE IT GUY'S FAULT. ALWAYS.

  The only reason he is employed so they boss can be upset at him.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

You can call a battered spouse stays with their abuser stupid but that does not mean the abuse is their fault. If an abuser's spouse stays around, that does not mean the abuse is acceptable.

Perhaps the victim is staying because of children - much like many windows users that require specialized windows only software such as, oh I don't know.... weather forecast presentation software?

Re:Here's a good idea

[ArchieBunker]

Sadly SGI is long dead.

Re:Here's a good idea

[reboot246]

What you fail to understand is that government is the ultimate organized crime syndicate - it may be necessary, but it's best if kept as small as possible.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Grishnakh]

I completely disagree. This is a reductio ad absurdum argument.

Physical spouse abuse is illegal, and actionable. Microsoft treating customers poorly is not. There's a good reason we don't have excessive government interference about how companies treat customers; it's a waste of resources and would create stifling bureaucracy. Customers who don't like their vendors just need to find new vendors, not whine about it and ask for government help.

You don't *need* specialized Windows-only software. You don't even need to run a TV station. If you want such software, you can either put up with the choices offered, ask the software vendor to make a better version that doesn't use Windows, or make your own. Last I heard, local TV stations are all affiliated with nationwide networks, and I simply do not believe the a corporation as large as NBC or CBS doesn't have the resources to roll their own software or come up with some kind of workaround.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Man On Pink Corner]

The fact that it lacks a "Don't remind me again" checkbox places it into the category known as "dark patterns."

Put simply, if Windows 10 is really that great, why does Microsoft have to borrow tactics from Ukrainian malware authors to shove it down our throats?

Re:Here's a good idea

[Calydor]

So basically your definition of choice boils down to no choice at all.

Look, Linux is a great alternative for some tasks, but Windows is in many areas a de facto monopoly. There is no viable alternative for a LOT of people if they want to have a computer at all that can do what they want a computer to do.

If gas stations started plastering your wind shield with ads each time you went to get gas that is totally their 'right' to do so, and your 'right' to stop getting gas - and in the process ditching your car. How would that work out for you? Could you still get to your job, buy groceries and so on?

Re:Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's just say that while there is "technically" a way to disable these popups, an administrator following best practices is simply keeping the machine patched, which introduced this behavior in the first place. If they had done the "wrong" thing and left that Windows 7 (presumably) machine unpatched, then this wouldn't have happened.

There's a group policy (and/or registry) switch that disables the popups and it works even if you you install all updates.

I'm not defending MS, what they're doing is pretty scummy. But they do provide an official way to disable the upgrade prompts.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you mean anyone running windows that is dumb enough not to have already upgraded to windows 10.

If you're on a tablet, windows 10 sucks. However, for every other case, there are clear security advantages to get everyone updated. I'm also sick of support IE. I need IT departments to force upgrade everything past windows 7 at least so we can guarantee IE 11+ .

Users running old versions of windows are assholes. Microsoft only wants to get windows fans to be like Mac fans and accept forced upgrades. I guess I've been abused by apple so long that I accept microsoft doing it, but it's the fact of life in tech. Even if you don't like something, when it's a thing you have to deal with it. Ajax and Linux (read systemd) come to mind.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Grishnakh]

Invalid argument. Gas stations are not a monopoly, nor is Windows. Windows is not comparable to all gas stations. Furthermore, plastering your windshield with ads is likely illegal because of safety reasons.

However, to run with your argument, if Exxon stations stuck advertising stickers in the corner of my windshield every time I got gas there, I'd stop going to Exxon stations, and would go to one of their competitors.

Similarly, if I don't like how Microsoft treats me, I would stop using Microsoft software, and use one of the alternatives.

Your claims that there's no viable alternative are false. Apple for one will happily agree with me there. Red Hat will too.

If you've locked yourself into some software that only runs on Windows, that was your own choice. I wouldn't buy a car audio system that only worked in Ford Pintos.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Ignore previous poster. He's never worked, or well left... his mom's basement.

Too many scenarios to target blame precisely, but yea, it is prudent Microsoft gets the first licks here.

Re:Here's a good idea

[war4peace]

There are so many wrong things with the post above, I don't know where to start.
1. Old versions suck ass compared to new versions from a customer's perspective. Nobody wants to watch weather forecasts that look like they came straight from the 90s.
2. "There's a lot more customers of these programs than suppliers" - and that's the problem. The suppliers hold their customers by the balls. When demand is high and supply is low, you can do whatever the fuck you want as a supplier.
3. The customers rarely (if ever) "band together". Shit needs to be more than FUBAR for customers to band together.
4. The customers will never "develop their own weather software collaboratively" - see point 3.
5. Of course CBS, for instance, could, in theory, develop their own custom weather solution. They could also, in theory, develop their own hardware, broadcast format, audio format, video format, database types and God knows what else. Do they need to? Hell no.

Re: Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

No. They. Didn't.

They got sued for not allowing Netscape to be included on new PCs - and then the whole trial got sidetracked on the stupid (and irrelevant) issue of Microsoft including a Web Browser they wrote for an operating system they wrote with that operating system.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

Captain Slashdot Has Spoken

Yes, but in this case approximately 100% of the rest of the Windows-using world agrees with the good captain. Microsoft screwed this one up big time, and their reputation has rightly suffered for it. Many of us will continue to mock them for it, and to refuse to install Windows 10, and to change our earlier Windows systems to turn off the nag screen -- because unlike Windows 10, in those earlier versions we still can.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

Your entire argument here seems a little contrived to me. Even if there are alternatives to Microsoft Windows in general, a customer who already bought Windows because it met their requirements and functioned acceptably at the time should not subsequently find that Windows no longer meets their requirements or functions the same way because it has been artificially damaged by Microsoft after the fact.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

Companies have *every right* to treat their customers like total shit.

If that were actually true, there would be no consumer protection laws on the books, no cases where clauses in contracts of adhesion between a small business customer and a big business supplier have been struck down as unconscionable by a court, and so on.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

If you're on a tablet, windows 10 sucks. However, for every other case, there are clear security advantages to get everyone updated.

And clear security, privacy/data protection, and reliability concerns if you update.

For example, none of my businesses could reasonably update to Windows 10 even if we wanted to. We're not big enough to use Enterprise, and the ability of another party (Microsoft) to install arbitrary software onto computers running any other version of Windows 10 would be an instant deal-breaker for all kinds of regulatory and contractual reasons.

Even without the legality and regulatory issues, if anything important that your business does relies on systems that someone else can arbitrarily change or even remove at any time, you're a fool.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

You can call a battered spouse stays with their abuser stupid but that does not mean the abuse is their fault. If an abuser's spouse stays around, that does not mean the abuse is acceptable.

Perhaps the victim is staying because of children - much like many windows users that require specialized windows only software such as, oh I don't know.... weather forecast presentation software?

I don't get it. This is a tech site. What's all this about battered spouses?
Shouldn't that be a car analogy?

Re:Here's a good idea

[Waccoon]

There is a wealth of information on the Internet about how to deal with these messages

Does that include clicking, "No, I don't want to upgrade" and checking the box that says, "Don't ask me again?"

It should not require unofficial knowledge or 3rd party software like GWX Control Panel to keep your PC from nagging you, especially since using Windows in a business environment is a known use case, and has been for a long time.

Next you'll be saying that if TrustedInstaller.exe is using 100% of my CPU time for 15 hours straight (on a fresh install of Win7 of all things), it's my fault for not configuring my machine correctly.

Re:Here's a good idea

[silentcoder]

So if the corner cafe comes and paints a logo on my outside wall without my permission I can't bill them for advertising ? I promise you they would pay the bill without a purchase order because the alternative is me charging them criminally for vandalism and suing them for lost income from the possibility of selling that advertising space to a legitimate buyer.

You think CBS's can't afford sufficient lawyers to make Microsoft consider at least paying the advertising bill to avoid much more expensive litigation and criminal charges ?

Re:Here's a good idea

[silentcoder]

>As a side note, is "Nigerian prince" the world's most hazardous job? They're constantly dying off!

To be fair: national borders in Africa were drawn by colonial powers with little or no regard for where the locals had drawn their borders. So many African monarchies span regions into multiple countries and most countries contain several different monarchies. You could have about 7 South African princes die this year for example, and without any of them being related to any of the others. If you allow for sibling deaths - 30 or 40 would be possible.

The death rate isn't that high, and these dying Nigerian princes are made up of course - but there's certainly quite a lot of them. Nigeria is a massive country (one of the largest on the continent) and has a great many different royal familes.

As an aside: actual African monarchies are not actually very wealthy (often not at all). The only remaining ruling monarchy on the continent is in Swaziland. Laws vary across the many countries on the continent but in most the authority of the old royal families today is held as regional common-law, and the chiefs are exactly on par with local magistrates in the urban areas. That is to say their word is court-judgements which establish precedent (rather than legislative law), and thus cannot contradict legislation (which includes constitutions) and can be overruled by higher courts. But those are not roles which produce a great deal of weatlh. The only rich ones are either extremely corrupt (and they tend to end up in jail - here in South Africa a local chief was recently convicted for arson after burning down somebody's house. His defence was that he was acting as a judicial officer punishing somebody for disobedience. The appeals court held that he had not followed proper procedure as the council was not convened and neither evidence nor witness statements considered - ergo his actions were personal and not judicial duties and qualified as arson) or the leftovers of the very largest monarchies which had vast land-ownership and other hereditary wealth (like the Zulu kingdom).

Re:Here's a good idea

[bingoUV]

a customer who already bought Windows because it met their requirements and functioned acceptably at the time should not subsequently find

The said customer agreed that Microsoft can do anything Microsoft wants to the software later.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

Because of a pop-up with no highly visible way to cancel it, or because of some sneaky wording several pages into an EULA no-one read? Good luck using either of those as a defence. You'll need it.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

In mint I get a small indicator symbol in the notification area when updates are available. Not a fucking popup covering half the screen.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Grishnakh]

1. Old versions suck ass compared to new versions from a customer's perspective. Nobody wants to watch weather forecasts that look like they came straight from the 90s.

But they want to watch pop-up messages trying to force the station into "upgrading" to Windows 10? Hmm...

3. The customers rarely (if ever) "band together". Shit needs to be more than FUBAR for customers to band together.
4. The customers will never "develop their own weather software collaboratively" - see point 3.

Then they can suffer the consequences. Fuck 'em.

5. Of course CBS, for instance, could, in theory, develop their own custom weather solution. They could also, in theory, develop their own hardware, broadcast format, audio format, video format, database types and God knows what else. Do they need to? Hell no.

Then they can suffer with looking like fools on-air when Windows Update messages pop up.

Personally, I don't care, I just want people to stop complaining about the way Microsoft treats them with things like this. If they're not willing to do what it takes to liberate themselves, then I want them to just suffer and shut the hell up about it and continue to bend over for it, and I'll sit back and laugh at them.

Re:Here's a good idea

[bigfinger76]

I use Linux (var), and it has never alerted me with a popup. So no, at least not in such a tacky, intrusive manner.

Re:Here's a good idea

[david_thornley]

There are no advantages to upgrading to Windows 10 to run software certified to run Windows 7 and nothing later. I've used Apple stuff (I've currently got an iPhone, and have owned Macs), and they were never as obnoxious about updating as Microsoft. I've refused iOS updates and gotten no further prods from Apple.

My mother-in-law's boyfriend misclicked something and was "upgraded" to Windows 10, which isn't really working as well on his computer as Windows 7 did.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Grishnakh]

Go ahead, sue Microsoft and see what happens. I'd really like to see someone try it.

EULAs have already been held up in court. So yeah, if the EULA has crappy terms like this, your choices are to suck it up or find another vendor.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Grishnakh]

If that were actually true, there would be no consumer protection laws on the books, no cases where clauses in contracts of adhesion between a small business customer and a big business supplier have been struck down as unconscionable by a court, and so on.

It is true, but with a caveat: "... up to the limits of the law". The law doesn't forbid companies from generally being dicks to customers; companies do this all the time. They only pass laws (like consumer protection laws) when it gets too ridiculous, but I don't see that happening here. And the contract thing isn't going to help you here; you'd have to sue Microsoft. Show me one example of where someone has done that successfully. On the contrary, there have been court cases testing EULAs (and click-wrap licenses, etc.) and these licenses have been upheld.

I'm sorry, but there's simply no indication that the government is going to come to the rescue here, especially when the government is so under the thumb of corporations like this and in love with IP laws. So it's up to customers to deal with the problem themselves, and the only way they can do that is to stop doing business with blatantly abusive companies. If they're not going to do that, then they should just bend over and stop complaining.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

As far as I can see, I wouldn't have standing to sue, since although various computers I have do use Windows, I have so far managed to avoid any of them upgrading to Windows 10 against my will.

But if anyone did want to take action, EULAs don't automatically win just because there is something in them. Some aspects of some EULAs have been upheld in some courts, and others have not. We've had some rulings against big IT companies on much less significant matters than the ability to arbitrarily change or replace the purchased product, where they appear to have relied on arguments based on licensing terms and EULAs and lost.

As a relevant aside, here in Europe there were some quite recent changes to consumer protection legislation that were pretty obviously intended to remove any loopholes and ambiguity about whether the various rules that already covered contracts also covered other formal documents like EULAs, whatever their legal status might be otherwise. Most people who have Windows 7/8/8.1 will have bought it before those laws came into effect, but any recent customers would be covered.

Either way, though, it seems extremely unlikely that most European courts would uphold a condition hidden deep in an EULA that said Microsoft could do anything up to and including completely replacing the product someone bought.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

I don't know where you're from, but as with your other post, this idea that EULAs are some unassailable way to trump the law certainly is not universal and global, nor is the idea that governments won't intervene when big tech companies cross the line. The EU has issued substantial fines to big tech companies for much less than this. National regulators have acted against some of the biggest firms in tech as well. And if Microsoft couldn't prove they had real authorisation for any actions they took that adversely affected their customers' computers, they would be at risk of violating criminal computer misuse laws as well.

Re:Here's a good idea

[bingoUV]

Haha, the proof of the law is in the successful suing . All your impotent banter fails to explain one thing - why are Microsoft executives not behind bars on this one, or why isn't Microsoft explaining a few quarters of losses due to being fined by courts across the world?

In your imagination, all sorts of warm and cosy laws exist. I'll believe you gladly when I see one of the aforementioned proofs.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Grishnakh]

I'm in the US, which is the same country that this story about the meteorologist happened. It'd be interesting to see if MS gets slapped down in the EU over this stuff, but here in the US isn't not going to happen.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

You do understand that Microsoft has previously been fined literally billions of dollars by the EU authorities and has been forced to release alternative versions of its products? And that Microsoft tried, repeatedly, to appeal and avoid the initial rulings against them, and just got slapped down even harder for non-compliance? They went to court. They lost. They paid some of the largest fines in legal history. How much more proof do you need?

Of course nothing has happened about Windows 10 yet. For legal action on that scale, brought by the authorities representing an entire continent with hundreds of millions of citizens and resulting in fines of billions of dollars, you don't just turn up to your local court with a couple of guys in suits.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

... and if you don't have proper IT support to configure systems in your broadcast tool chain, you are clearly doing it wrong.

Windows 7 WAS BUILT with at least two ways two notify the user of something akin to the Windows 10 upgrade. The first is Windows Update (specifically, recommended software). The second is the notification area (typically, bottom right of screen). Now, I understand MSFT tried using both avenues to push Windows 10. It then starting ALTERING THE WINDOWS 7 "FEATURE" SET with completely new foreign, malware-like notifications.

We could see some completely new notification scheme next Tuesday (on this - what - 8 year old OS). So STFU. Everybody has to balance updates vs security. In this case, the support answer is ultimately to turn off updates or have them vetted A LONG time before deployment.

Hey, as a home linux user and PC-support guy at work (as a small part of my job), we're all still trying to catch our breath. And fuck off.

Re:Here's a good idea

[bingoUV]

And for the litigation period, Microsoft was still profitable in the EU. Until the feeble hands of the law can hurt the corporations in a meaningful way, it is called cost of doing business.

Until you gather your men in suits, your rant remains powerless, impotent. Even after that, it only means something if either some senior executives spend decades in jail, or the corporation reports losses over large areas for the duration the illegal activity benefits them.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

That's some nice victim blaming you've got going on there.

You can apply the same logic to people stuck in an abusive relationship. You might say that a woman should leave her boyfriend/husband if he beats hers, and to some extent you would be right, but whatever her reasons for staying, that doesn't make the beating any more "right". If you think a woman not leaving her abusive partner makes it okay for him to beat her, then what the fuck is wrong with you?

What Microsoft is doing isn't on the same level in terms of severity, but it is certainly abusive, and they deserve all the blame for doing it.

Re:Here's a good idea

[bingoUV]

You have some serious aversion to posting your argument, for someone with signature like

If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.

Though it is reasonable on your part to mark the people who post truths that uncomfortable for you - protects your cocoon.

PS : With a change in my e-mail client - I forgot to add my filter to junk foe/friend notification emails. Just added it back, thanks.

Re:Here's a good idea

[Anonymous Coward]

But if you're running Windows 10, you won't ever get that popup, so clearly it's not the fault of anyone dumb enough to use Windows 10.

Giving you the forecast, indeed

[Anonymous Coward]

Cloudy with a chance of forced update installs.

Re:Giving you the forecast, indeed

[Anonymous Coward]

That's 100% chance of forced update installs... FTFY

and you thought you owned you PC

[Anonymous Coward]

it's really just advertisement space for Microsoft.

Missed opportunity

[mrchaotica]

If only the meteorologist had said "and this is a perfect example of why Microsoft is shit and should never be used for anything important," it would have been great.

Re: Missed opportunity

[Anonymous Coward]

It would be very hypocritical if you also didn't think i devices are also toys.

I've been told to hold off updating until the corporate app works properly after updating.

At least once every single day I get nagged to update. Worse, it takes over the whole screen and forces you to say no. Then it forces you to say no again.

Great design right there. At least w10 doesn't block you and doesn't require more than 1 click.

  I've had to put up with this every day for the past several months.

Re: Missed opportunity

[mrchaotica]

It would be very hypocritical if you also didn't think i devices are also toys.

I didn't say Windows was a "toy," I said it should never be used for anything important. That's a very large difference! Toys are supposed to be safe, but Windows is dangerous.

Of course, I will happily and wholeheartedly condemn Apple (and Google, and anybody else) for the same "you don't own your device, we do" bullshit, as applicable!

Re: Missed opportunity

[Anonymous Coward]

This just showcases the fact that you are weapons grade stupid.

Re:Missed opportunity

[Anonymous Coward]

If only the meteorologist had said "and this is a perfect example of why Microsoft is shit and should never be used for anything important," it would have been great.

And watch them and the TV station get sued into oblivion. There's a reason why TV personalities don't go off on rants on live television.

Re:Missed opportunity

[PopeRatzo]

and this is a perfect example of why Microsoft is shit

To be fair, the TV station was in Nebraska, so they're probably still using the old-fashioned ethanol-burning, chain-driven computers.

Re: Missed opportunity

[Anonymous Coward]

Is s/he wrong?

The school district I support is quickly phasing out overpriced itoys for chromebooks - turns out "nothing but a browser" doesn't stop them from being a better feature set. And half the price tag.

It'll still be a while though. I've had years to get acquainted with the very showcased fact that you have to ask phoned-home permission to use your own ipad. Which is disgusting when used as a consumer product, and pretty much impossible for enterprise.

Re:Missed opportunity

[Anonymous Coward]

And watch them and the TV station get sued into oblivion. There's a reason why TV personalities don't go off on rants on live television.

The meteorologist might have gotten fired, but not even Microsoft are stupid enough to pick a fight with mainstream media.
Other stations don't sit quiet when one is attacked. They know that if they can't run whatever information they want they are toast.

Re:Missed opportunity

[Anonymous Coward]

Des Moines is in Iowa. But yes, our computers do run on corn.

Re:Missed opportunity

[PopeRatzo]

Des Moines is in Iowa.

My bad. Compared to Nebraska, Iowa might as well be Silicon Valley.

Can't Be 98

[Anonymous Coward]

From the looks of it, either the concerned computer is running Windows 98, or is using classic theme.

Since Microsoft isn't offering the free upgrade to anyone below Windows 7, that kinda narrows it down.

Re:Can't Be 98

[Anonymous Coward]

Just shows how ignorant and out-of-touch Slashdot editors are with today's tech.

Re:Can't Be 98

[Hognoxious]

"or".

Not really a long word. To me, at least.

Re:Can't Be 98

[Anonymous Coward]

And who does NOT run "classic theme"? (Well, my twelve year old niece but who else?)

Re:Can't Be 98

[TangoMargarine]

that kinda narrows it down.

Feeling nitpicky today?

Re:Can't Be 98

[Anonymous Coward]

On the Windows system that I use to play downloaded videos and a specific video game in my living room, my previous motherboard died. It was still running XP (with classic theme) and I decided to get a W7 OEM with the new motherboard/CPU while it was still possible to buy it. Naturally, I set it to classic theme.

Then I upgraded my video card (to something less than five years old) and found that videos were tearing in the middle. After much mucking about, I found out that I could not get vsync working for video playback unless I went back to an Aero theme (though I did turn the stupid transparency off). There's a bunch of other bullshit that gives me that I can't turn off, like the big window preview popups from the task bar. All this because somehow vsync no longer works with an Nvidia card (I don't know about ATI/AMD, that's just what I got) with the GDI graphics that classic theme still requires. Yes, it's a theme change that changes the graphics subsystem used by the GUI. (Though admittedly it was probably as much for compatibility with ancient apps as for those of us who hate the regular gaudy forced theme changes every few years.)

So I no longer run classic theme on THAT computer.

Re:Can't Be 98

[DiEx-15]

From the looks of it, either the concerned computer is running Windows 98, or is using classic theme.

Since Microsoft isn't offering the free upgrade to anyone below Windows 7, that kinda narrows it down.

Considering I lived in Iowa at one point in my life (and GTFO a few years ago): I am surprised they went from stones and rocks to ANY Windows computer.

Meh... it could've been worse

[spacepimp]

At least it didn't automatically uninstall the weather system application.

Re:Meh... it could've been worse

[Anonymous Coward]

That wouldn't happen until the install started.

Re:Meh... it could've been worse

[Anonymous Coward]

And you wouldn't know until after the reboot.

Re:Meh... it could've been worse

[Not-a-Neg]

or when update 1511 installs.

It's their own fault for refusing to upgrade.

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft should take this a step further: Anyone who refuses to upgrade to Windows 10 gets permanently locked out of their PC until they finally agree to upgrade.

Win/win situation: Microsoft gets more Windows 10 users, and users get more apps!

Re:It's their own fault for refusing to upgrade.

[smooth wombat]

Exactly. Just like car dealers should be able to lock you out of your car if you don't come in for a service notice or upgrade to your software.

Win/win situation: the dealer gets more business and users get more apps!

Re:It's their own fault for refusing to upgrade.

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft should take this a step further: Anyone who refuses to upgrade to Windows 10 gets permanently locked out of their PC until they finally agree to upgrade.

Win/win situation: Microsoft gets more Windows 10 users, and users get more apps!

I think those tactics would be classified as a ransomware scam which is a criminal offence.

Re: It's their own fault for refusing to upgrade.

[Anonymous Coward]

What they're doing right now should be prosecuted as a criminal offense. They're running code on my machine that does things I don't wish and did not authorize, which I have determined to not be in my best interest, and they installed it via a mechanism which is supposed to do things I did authorize (security updates).

This seems like a rather clear CFAA violation to me...

Re:It's their own fault for refusing to upgrade.

[TangoMargarine]

Not sure if sarcasm or poster is really that stupid

The implication is that I should upgrade because spying on me is a feature? Does W10 offer any other new features?

Re: It's their own fault for refusing to upgrade.

[Grishnakh]

But you *did* authorize it, by accepting automatic updates on your Windows computer and giving Microsoft permission to do those updates. You've placed your trust in MS that they wouldn't abuse this power, but they have. Now it's up to you to decide if you're going to continue to trust this vendor or not.

MS isn't some 3rd party, they're your OS vendor, who you've expressly chosen to be your vendor and to provide you software updates. They've done just that, you just don't like the update they've given you. I don't see how this is illegal, this is just a sour business relationship. There's only one solution to a sour business relationship, and that's to find a new vendor.

Classic theme

[Anonymous Coward]

Why in the hell would you not use classic theme? I know i do.

Re:Classic theme

[__aaclcg7560]

Most of us have learned to put the 90's behind us.

Re:Classic theme

[Anonymous Coward]

Most of us have learned to put the 90's behind us... ... and embrace the metro-sexual lifestyle. We love flashlights shown in our eyes.

Re:Classic theme

[mrchaotica]

I actually like the Windows 7 theme. (Can't say the same about XP or 10 though.)

Re:Classic theme

[Anonymous Coward]

When XP came along, everything was all bubbly and cartoonish looking. Two or three minutes of that and no thanks, I turned on Classic.

When 7 came along, it had Aero and everything was trying to be translucent and glassy and OSX-y. I disabled that in favor of Classic.

When 8 came along, Metro was introduced and suddenly everything was somehow even more flat/square/boring than Classic View. It's like the entire experience was designed for touch screens or people who hadn't ever used a mouse before. I disabled Metro in favor of Classic.

If you want to call me stuck in the 90's, that's fine. But Classic view is by far the most productive and functional interface in Windows, for me.

Re:Classic theme

[sims 2]

Some people like to waste cycles on fancy animations to make opening a folder look pretty.

But I'm not one of those people.

Re: Classic theme

[pgn674]

Most people in my area referred to the XP default theme as the "Fisher-Price Theme." In Windows 8, when there is a CD in your drive, the associated message says something like "Tap here to eject CD." It said "tap," even when you didn't have a touch screen. That is when I knew Windows 8 was designed for touch screens first.

Re: Classic theme

[Anonymous Coward]

Now explain to us why you still drive a Model T Ford.

Re:Classic theme

[MMC Monster]

Yeah. I love classic theme as well.

What's wrong with admitting that you got it right and no need to completely reinvent the wheel? What should have happened with XP, Vista, 7, etc. is that they cleaned up classic theme a little with each upgrade rather than replacing it time and again. The constant replacement of the UI led to moving around configuration options, instead of unifying everything in a single control panel which would be extensible in an intelligent manner.

Re:Classic theme

[mlheur]

Not only that, but whomever, manishs or MojoKid, made that comment in the post doesn't remember their colour schemes very well (or is too young to know better?). Win98 used two deeper shades of blue for the gradient (navy & sky?), the dark to light gradient started in Win2k/ME and persists to at least windows 7.

http://www.guidebookgallery.or...
http://www.guidebookgallery.or... - scroll down.

Re:Classic theme

[Anonymous Coward]

Like the commenter below (...Classic view is by far the most productive and functional interface in Windows...), it IS bar-none. Even if you are "used" to the interface you grew up on & are blindly loyal to it. Consider the spoon: it's an ancient design that works with the hands & mouth. Should it be redesigned?

It is only because of the EASE of digital design to be changed that things like this change. A new skin every so often, to remind us that enough time has passed that you'd better upgrade or be considered 'out'. Nah, see a button press a button. Classic view is buttons. Undeniable it works.

Re:Classic theme

[TangoMargarine]

7 was the platonic ideal of Windows as far as I'm concerned.

(other than those things they've never been good at like command line and virtual desktops, of course)

Re:Classic theme

[Tehrasha]

Totally agree. The closer I can get any version of Windows to look, feel, and act like NT the better.

Re:Classic theme

[Anonymous Coward]

Um no. 2000 was far better. The classic UI before it was declared classic, almost no DRM, etc...

It was yours, not MSs, and behaved like that. Win7 was a step back towards it, which is the good direction.

Take win2K, add decent DIrectX and some of the later kernel stuff. That's what I consider the best windows.

Re:Classic theme

[Anonymous Coward]

Personally I prefer the Win 7 theme best, what I don't get is why they don't include more choice of themes in Windows. I can't really imagine why someone would prefer the default XP theme over the default Win7 theme, but why not give users the choice. If I could make the Win8.x UI more like the Win 7 UI, I might even prefer to use Win 8.x. For me to prefer to use Win10 would require them removing the spyware and forced updates from it as well as a Win7-like theme.

If Windows got the classic theme right, then why don't more people use it? (If even you only count people who know you can change the theme, it isn't that high of a proportion)

Windows 7 business theme

[Anonymous Coward]

"From the looks of it, either the concerned computer is running Windows 98, or is using classic theme." -- Most business Windows 7 computers are set and locked to use the Classic Theme.

Updates are just as bad

[DidgetMaster]

After installing Windows 10, you get updates pushed to you on a regular basis. During a demo, I needed to reboot. The update facility decided that would be a perfect time to spend about 10 minutes updating my machine. It did not give me a choice to postpone it to a more convenient time.

Re: Updates are just as bad

[Anonymous Coward]

Every single one of my Windows installs either asks or recommends a time at 3
2am - it even specifically suggests that it determines when you're not using the computer. None of them have ever restated spontaneously - someone must have clicked to agree.

Re:Updates are just as bad

[squiggleslash]

That's a great idea. Remove the inadequate tool you've given them and replace it with something even more inadequate, rather than do your job.

I wish I could blame the user every time a cascading pile of decisions made by numerous third parties with little thought to the consequences cause that user to have a bad day.

Re:Updates are just as bad

[Waffle Iron]

Users at my job are supposed to log out at the end of the day, giving Windows the chance to update itself during the nightly maintenance window. .

If your machines require a "nightly maintenance window", maybe that's a sign that your OS isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Re: Updates are just as bad

[Anonymous Coward]

Users lie. News at 11.

Re:Updates are just as bad

[KiloByte]

If the tech -- and the software company you patronize -- are so incompetent to not know how to do updates without inconveniencing the users, that's not the user's fault.

Re:Updates are just as bad

[__aaclcg7560]

If your machines require a "nightly maintenance window", maybe that's a sign that your OS isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Not necessarily. You don't want ~80,000 Windows systems updating at the same time. It's better to spread out the load over the course of a week.

Re: Updates are just as bad

[MobyDisk]

DidgetMaster didn't say it restarted spontaneously.

When restarting on Windows 8 and 10, if there are pending updates that require a reboot, there is a "restart and apply updates" and another "restart witout updates." Unless the user is paying attention it is easy to click the restart and apply updates option.

Re:Updates are just as bad

[Anonymous Coward]

Your job is to support the users, not for them to kiss your ass. And how is this possibly a problem in the year 2016? In a professional IT setting using modern software and a *nix OS this should never be a problem.

Re:Updates are just as bad

[Billly Gates]

Get the professional version. FYI got to PC Settings->Updates -> Pick a time Window.

By default Windows 10 updates will only install after it finds out when you typically never use the PC. But Windows 10 will not auto reboot. It does so after you ignore updates for 2 days

Re:Updates are just as bad

[Anonymous Coward]

I've seen this happen during several demos. Maybe creating a demo mode switch which inhibits rebooting popups, etc...would be a good idea. I know MS employees have had this happen far too often during their own demos.

Re: Updates are just as bad

[sexconker]

Under Windows 10, you can only postpone updates for so long. After some unknown amount of time, they are forced upon you, regardless of what you are doing.

Re:Updates are just as bad

[__aaclcg7560]

Remove the inadequate tool you've given them and replace it with something even more inadequate, rather than do your job.

If your employer decides that the best tool for your job is a box of crayons, you either do the best job that you can with the tool provided or look for a new job. I had a boss who gave me a box of crayons one time. I did my job with it, submitted my work to his supervisor, and started my reputation of getting the job done.

Re:Updates are just as bad

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do you put up with this? Why not use something else? Windows is just becoming more and more exclusive, so now's a great time to jump ship.

Re:Updates are just as bad

[__aaclcg7560]

If the tech -- and the software company you patronize -- are so incompetent to not know how to do updates without inconveniencing the users, that's not the user's fault.

Corporate policy requires users to log out of their computers every night. They have two weeks to log out of their computer and avoid being inconvenienced by a 60-minute reboot notification. Two weeks.

Re:Updates are just as bad

[Anonymous Coward]

Fedora doesn't have this problem. Install Linux, problem solved.

Re:Updates are just as bad

[magarity]

I've heard of slave labor hours in IT but are these people actually logged in and working two weeks 24/7?

Re:Updates are just as bad

[sexconker]

If your machines require a "nightly maintenance window", maybe that's a sign that your OS isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Not necessarily. You don't want ~80,000 Windows systems updating at the same time. It's better to spread out the load over the course of a week.

creimer, creimer, creimer...

80,000 Windows machines updating at the same time is nothing. If you're managing these machines, you're using SCCM+WSUS or a similar 3rd-party suite. They all have a staging step where shit is downloaded to the client before the installation time. In an SCCM+WSUS environment, you first sync your server with the MS catalog plus any other 3rd party catalogs if you're also using Update Manager, then you create a software update group containing those updates, then you deploy them to various groups using various rules regarding the user's interaction with the process, along with an installation deadline. Deployed updates are published to your distribution point(s). In a large environment you would have multiple sites or at least multiple distribution points.

The clients then, on their own schedule, with offsets, contact the site server and ask for their policy and check to see if any updates apply to them. They then see the new updates, see which distribution point they're on, and download them. Depending on what level of user interaction you chose, the user will see a balloon notification stating that software changes are required and are being downloaded. They can click the icon in the system tray to view details, install now, or schedule installation. If they don't, the installation behavior set up in the deployment takes effect when the installation deadline you configured hits. Things can install, install and restart, or wait for the maintenance window. You can specify any maintenance window you want, such as 2 AM daily, noon every Saturday, or whatever. You can specify multiple maintenance windows. Each collection of computers can have their own set of maintenance windows. Users can specify their own window, if you let them, by specifying the times they work and times they don't.

All of this can be automated quite easily. The end result is on patch Tuesday you automatically sync with the MS catalog sometime around noon (after they put shit up), a bit later you automatically create the software update groups, download the updates, and publish them, some time later clients fetch the updates from your various distribution points, or an alternative download location if their regular DP happens to be down, and some time after that clients are prompted to install them or schedule the installation. If they hit the deadline shit happens regardless or is scheduled for the next maintenance window, depending on what you told it to do. When the maintenance window hits, any remaining tasks, such as installation or restarts happen.

Getting 80,000 machines to do this at once isn't an issue. They pull the downloads from local DPs using BITS. You can set bandwidth limits on BITS if you want, but it's already at background priority and clients download at staggered times from whichever DP is most available (or you specifically told it to use). This all goes down transparently over your LAN. You only download one copy of each patch over your internet connection.

If you don't want to pay for SCCM, WSUS is free and will give you much of the same benefit.

Re:Updates are just as bad

[__aaclcg7560]

Your job is to support the users, not for them to kiss your ass.

I don't want users to kiss my ass, I want users to follow corporate policy.

And how is this possibly a problem in the year 2016?

Users have this entitlement mentality at work. It's their computer, and not the company's computer.

In a professional IT setting using modern software and a *nix OS this should never be a problem.

Linux users are responsible for updating their own servers. They're just as a bad as Windows users when it comes to updating their servers on regular basis.

Re:Updates are just as bad

[__aaclcg7560]

Getting 80,000 machines to do this at once isn't an issue.

These systems are split up in Monday/Wednesday, Tuesday/Thursday, and Friday/Saturday/Sunday patch groups. Out of 80,000 systems, 5% are having SCCM issues and 5% are being held up by users not logging out each night. My job is to console hurt computers and fix broken users. ;)

Re:Updates are just as bad

[Anonymous Coward]

After installing Windows 10, you get updates pushed to you on a regular basis. During a demo, I needed to reboot. The update facility decided that would be a perfect time to spend about 10 minutes updating my machine. It did not give me a choice to postpone it to a more convenient time.

I work for the DoD using their supercomputers for modelling and simulation. The supercomputers are typically clusters running linux; typical simulations take several hours to a couple of days to run. Some years back there was discussion of putting together a compute cluster made up of windows computers. Thankfully, this idea was quickly scrapped. I can only imagine how mind-bendingly annoying it would have been to have to use such a compute cluster. I can only imagine how mind-bendingly horrifying it would have been to be tasked with sysadmin of such an abomination.

Re:Updates are just as bad

[Anonymous Coward]

I've heard of slave labor hours in IT but are these people actually logged in and working two weeks 24/7?

Some of us know how to keep a computer busy on work stuff even if we are not at our desks. You don't have to be physically present while a computer is busy crunching numbers. Personally, I can't stand an idle computer. It just doesn't sit right with me.

Re:Updates are just as bad

[__aaclcg7560]

You don't have to be physically present while a computer is busy crunching numbers.

Most users told me they don't like starting up their computer and their applications. They want to pick up where they left off from the day before. I understand that. But corporate policy says to log out every night. At the very least, log out on Fridays.

Re:Updates are just as bad

[Anonymous Coward]

Your job is to support the users, not for them to kiss your ass.

I don't want users to kiss my ass, I want users to follow corporate policy.

Well, aren't you the perfect cog for the corporate machine!

And how is this possibly a problem in the year 2016?

Users have this entitlement mentality at work. It's their computer, and not the company's computer.

Don't you dare question authority!!! It will upset the PHB. Yes, the perfect cog you are.

Re:Updates are just as bad

[Anonymous Coward]

If you have 80,000 windows machines that aren't running identical instances selected from master images, you should not be remotely near admin level responsibility. Anyone letting MS managed that scale of deployment needs to be fired and blacklisted immediately.

Re:Updates are just as bad

[Anonymous Coward]

I've seen this happen during several demos. Maybe creating a demo mode switch which inhibits rebooting popups, etc...would be a good idea. I know MS employees have had this happen far too often during their own demos.

I seem to recall that it happened--in a very public setting, no less--to Bill Gates himself. You would think that after such a very public incident that they would finally learn their lesson. This is one of many reasons why I loathe Microshit.

Re:Updates are just as bad

[__aaclcg7560]

Don't you dare question authority!!! It will upset the PHB. Yes, the perfect cog you are.

The PHB can get upset. That's not my problem.

Re:Updates are just as bad

[__aaclcg7560]

Anyone letting MS managed that scale of deployment needs to be fired and blacklisted immediately.

Patches are rolled out two weeks after Patch Tuesday and being tested with existing applications. Standard corporate practice. Or should be.

Re:Updates are just as bad

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't have to be physically present while a computer is busy crunching numbers.

Most users told me they don't like starting up their computer and their applications. They want to pick up where they left off from the day before. I understand that. But corporate policy says to log out every night. At the very least, log out on Fridays.

I've had the other kind - the ones who do a full shutdown every time they leave their desk. With some group policy and scripting, when they next power on ( if there are updates scheduled) they get a "doing updates, don't power off" message and the logon sequence is blocked until updates are up to date.

Re:Updates are just as bad

[Anonymous Coward]

As a user of such an environment.. can we PLEASE get ssd's in our workstations? It is so much ridiculousness waiting 10 minutes before the computer is ready to log into a browser and clock in... that's my time you're stealing.

I tried to buy one for my workstation but IT was "too busy" to reinstall with it. =/

Re:Updates are just as bad

[Anonymous Coward]

Users at my job are supposed to log out at the end of the day, giving Windows the chance to update itself during the nightly maintenance window. .

If your machines require a "nightly maintenance window", maybe that's a sign that your OS isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Nightly maintenance window does mean maintenance every night. It means the admins are restricted from doing scheduled maintenance except during those times, and it means that users are warned ahead of time that during that window the systems may or may not be available.

A scheduled window allows maintenance to be done without having to email, phone, put up posters, send text messages, and station workers with bullhorns to alert all the people and especially those who call the help desk at 2:00 am to complain that the computer went down, because they did not read the email, answer the phone call, read the poster, check their text, nor hear the bullhorns.

Re:Updates are just as bad

[Anonymous Coward]

When I typically never use the PC it is switched off.

Re:Updates are just as bad

[Anonymous Coward]

You're right, we'll just install the updates at 10:00AM and kick-off the full drive virus scan at 1:00PM. I'm sure you won't mind your CPU being pegged at 100% for the next 5 hours.

Re:Updates are just as bad

[Chmarr]

If that story is true, that is kick-ass.

Re:Updates are just as bad

[sexconker]

SCCM issues? Such as? It's trivial to select all inactive or non responsive clients and administratively push out the client again, forcing a reinstall to clear up any issues. The only thing that really needs more manual intervention on the client is fixing fucking WMI. Running Stop-Service winmgmt -Force; winmgmt /resetrepository from an elevated powershell window fixes that.
If you've got issues within SCCM (as opposed to issues with the clients) then you're doing something wrong.

Users not logging out? Your maintenance window fixes that. The machine will install updates (if not already done outside the window) and restart. The users will be reminded of policy every they lose "work" (whatever shit they left open in the browser).

Re:Updates are just as bad

[Anonymous Coward]

Not the OP but I had something very similar happen.

We have a laptop that we use for testing application on Windows 10 Home, which is the OS our users have.

We pulled it out of locked storage and plugged it in and turned it on. Started testing our application for functionality in this new and exciting OS and about 15 minutes later, the OS put up a screen that it was rebooting now. No "this computer will reboot, would you like to wait?" or "would you like to install updates?" it just did it.

Re:Updates are just as bad

[Obfuscant]

Corporate policy requires users to log out of their computers every night.

I have a model run that takes 48 hours. Instead of being done in two days, it will be a week (6 days, plus a weekend thrown in there somewhere.) Great use of resources. Very efficient.

Sometimes a forced reboot isn't just an inconvenience.

Re: Updates are just as bad

[Obfuscant]

Unless the user is paying attention it is easy to click the restart and apply updates option.

And if you need to power off the system to install a disk or something else, the system forces the updates. I needed to install a USB3 PCI adapter in a system one afternoon, and it turned into an all-afternoon project because of the updates.

Re:Updates are just as bad

[__aaclcg7560]

SCCM issues? Such as?

Error 8004100E in the logs. All these systems will probably get reimaged.

Users not logging out? Your maintenance window fixes that.

Not always. One of the admins implemented a script to force reboot every 30 days. Users hate that more than the 60-minute notification.

Re:Updates are just as bad

[sexconker]

8004100E is the WMI issue.
Run
Stop-Service winmgmt -Force; winmgmt /resetrepository
from an elevated powershell window, then reinstall the client.

The rebooting issue isn't an issue with SCCM or even the users. That in no way supports your initial

You don't want ~80,000 Windows systems updating at the same time.

claim.

Re:Updates are just as bad

[__aaclcg7560]

8004100E is the WMI issue.
Run
Stop-Service winmgmt -Force; winmgmt /resetrepository
from an elevated powershell window, then
reinstall the client.

No dice. Still getting the same error message as before. I got 188 systems with this error. The reimaging team is going to love me on Monday morning.

Re:Updates are just as bad

[mattventura]

What I can't (couldn't, because I dropped win8/10 like the garbage it was) is that it could easily notice the fact that I shut down my computer every night and just install updates then. Yet for whatever reason, it still nagged me to shut down whenever there were updates.

Re:Updates are just as bad

[TangoMargarine]

No, a lot of people just leave their computers on all the time.

Re:Updates are just as bad

[Ken D]

And does corporate policy require that you clean off your desk and lock everything into its drawers every night as well? "A tidy desk is the sign of an empty mind!"

Someone doing the equivalent of office piecework can shutdown every night. Some of us have multiple on-going projects going on all the time. I am NOT going to open dozens of windows every morning. Applications get closed when I'm done with them, not before.

Re:Updates are just as bad

[__aaclcg7560]

And does corporate policy require that you clean off your desk and lock everything into its drawers every night as well?

Yes.

"A tidy desk is the sign of an empty mind!"

Uh, no. Policy falls under Information Security.

Re:Updates are just as bad

[Ash-Fox]

Patches are rolled out two weeks after Patch Tuesday and being tested with existing applications. Standard corporate practice. Or should be.

Patch Tuesday is not a thing any more...

Re: Updates are just as bad

[Dr. Evil]

The one which comes up after "remind me in 4 hours" steals the foreground and keystrokes. I've had Windows decide to reboot while typing in the middle of a sentence.

There's some really basic UI improvements MS could make, but instead they focus on nausea inducing animations, simulations of glare and half-ass reimplementations which require keeping the old stuff around anyway...

Apple's only slightly less horrible in this, and Linux is.... utterly divided.

Re:Updates are just as bad

[Anonymous Coward]

Corporate policy requires users to log out of their computers every night.

I have a model run that takes 48 hours. Instead of being done in two days, it will be a week (6 days, plus a weekend thrown in there somewhere.) Great use of resources. Very efficient.

Sometimes a forced reboot isn't just an inconvenience.

Every enterprise shop run by grownups can handle that by placing those machines in their own OU in AD.
Now that you know what to ask for, do you need suggestions on what to say to get it done?

Re:Updates are just as bad

[Obfuscant]

Every enterprise shop run by grownups can handle that by placing those machines in their own OU in AD.

Except not every "enterprise shop" uses AD.

Now that you know what to ask for, do you need suggestions on what to say to get it done?

If "corporate policy" requires users to log out every night, then yes, I would expect I would say "I need to run something for two days straight". At which point, the OP would say "it is corporate policy, you must log out every night". And then a 48 hour model run takes a week because I can only do it 8 hours at a time.

But you're confused a bit. I was pointing out the failure of having such a ridiculous, counter-productive corporate policy, not complaining that I personally have a 48 hour model run that such a stupid corporate policy is getting in the way of. So I guess the answer to "what to say to get it done" is really "nothing", because I don't log out every night. In fact, I haven't logged out of some systems for months at a time.

Waiting

[Anonymous Coward]

Waiting for the inevitable live "I'm done installing Windows 10 behind your back, I'm going to reboot now. Screw your unsaved work!", followed by the inevitable "I'm terribly sorry, but it seems that I can't boot. And no, I won't tell you why, but if you are feeling lucky, you can try the system restore function that doesn't work. Or stare at the screen, that's good too".

Because if you're going to fuck your customers systems, you better make sure that they can't AT LEAST drop to a console and try to unfuck the system. You have to be thorough about these things.

Yes, I'm bitter. I've had to deal with this twice already.

Re:Waiting

[Anonymous Coward]

Because if you're going to fuck your customers systems, [...]

It has been said before and it can be said again. You are no longer the customer, you are the product and owned by (in this case) Microsoft.

"reported on the internet"

[DogDude]

It was reported in early March that Microsoft was going way overboard by automatically upgrading Windows 7 and Windows 8 computers to Windows 10 without permission from customers. Reports confirming the occurrences were widely reported on the internet, but Microsoft would later deny that anything nefarious was going on.

"the internet" cannot create reports to confirm anything, Brandon.

Don't disturb

[Anonymous Coward]

Just imagine if you're alone watching pr0n and doing your thing and the Win 10 upgrade notification pops up before you pop.
Not that easy to remove those lotion on your hands just to close the notification.

Read the second sentence too, idiot

[raymorris]

> You're either a liar or an idiot.
It seems you're the idiot who can't read more than one sentence, and you're a jerk too.

Try sounding out these words, we'll wait:

> > During a demo, I needed to reboot. Windows decided this would be the perfect time ...

In case you're not aware, Windows installs updates when you shutdown or reboot. This can be rather annoying when you're in a hurry to leave. You work until time to leave the office, then click shut down on your laptop to leave. At which point Windows pops up with "Installing Updates. Do not unplug or shut down the computer. Time remaining: 12 minutes. "

Re:Read the second sentence too, idiot

[Anonymous Coward]

+5 Informative. And wasted time should always be factored into any Windows TCO analysis. It's a very real line item, not an intangible.

Re:Read the second sentence too, idiot

[Kurrelgyre]

What kind of demo requires you to reboot?

Re:Read the second sentence too, idiot

[Anonymous Coward]

One that crashed?

Re:Read the second sentence too, idiot

[ThePyro]

In case you're not aware, Windows installs updates when you shutdown or reboot. This can be rather annoying when you're in a hurry to leave.

Change your power settings (Control Panel > Power Options > System Settings) so that the power button on your machine acts as a "Hibernate" button instead of a "Shutdown" button. The system uses zero power while hibernating, and as an added bonus all your windows will still be open when you fire it up next time.

But yeah, if you haven't done that yet then updates might catch you at inconvenient times

Re:Read the second sentence too, idiot

[kuzb]

I'll say it again: Either a liar, or an idiot. This is not how the default configuration is set up. Now go play in traffic, I'm tired of clueless idiots like you who keep making arguments from a position of ignorance.

Re:Read the second sentence too, idiot

[Anonymous Coward]

Off the top of my head, maybe it's a demo of an SSD showing improved boot times?

Re:Read the second sentence too, idiot

[Anonymous Coward]

As a negative, windows gets unstable after long periods without a reboot, so yeah that will work... for a while. Until it doesn't and needs a reboot again.
Or maybe it will decide to reboot for updates on its own at night.

Re:Read the second sentence too, idiot

[DidgetMaster]

To prove the speed of the product I created. I am building a new general-purpose data management system that is designed to replace file systems and databases. It is lightning fast and manages metadata in a very efficient manner. I wanted to show that the speed wasn't just fast because I had everything loaded into memory or disk caches so I rebooted the machine to show how fast I could get the containers (with tens of millions of objects in them) mounted and do queries against them when we had to load everything from disk.

Re:Read the second sentence too, idiot

[DidgetMaster]

Maybe your default configuration is different than mine. I'm sure that if I wanted to spend the time, I could go figure out some special setting to change my system so that it doesn't happen again, but all I know is that it happened to me and it sounds like it has happened to others as well...so your insults don't phase me.

Re:Read the second sentence too, idiot

[Anonymous Coward]

As a negative, windows gets unstable after long periods without a reboot, so yeah that will work... for a while. Until it doesn't and needs a reboot again.
Or maybe it will decide to reboot for updates on its own at night.

Umm, no. It's been years since 64 bit Windows (Win 7/Server 2008 R2 and newer) was time-dependent unstable.
I can't speak for the 32 bit versions as we quit running them years ago due to their running out of resources after long periods of time.
Apps still suck.

Fully In Control

[sexconker]

Microsoft released a statement at the time, which read in part, “Customers continue to be fully in control of their devices, and can choose to not install the Windows 10 upgrade or remove the upgrade from Windows Update (WU) by changing the WU settings.”

Bulllllllllllllllllllllllllllllshit!

Not the first time I've lost work

[Anonymous Coward]

Just last night, I put my PC to sleep. Windows updated without any prior notification, causing me to lose a bunch of work in open windows. Thanks, fuckers.

Re: Not the first time I've lost work

[Anonymous Coward]

You left unsaved work in open windows overnight? Your issue is PEBKAC related.

More entertaining

[Billly Gates]

Would be an accidental upgrade and install push

Whose computer is it anyway?

[Anonymous Coward]

So... if you ignore a suggested update, Windows 10 just reboots spontaneously? Sounds a triffle spiteful, don't you think?

Some things never change:

[Tablizer]

Life imitates art:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

"That's cute" - Preston Garvy

[netsavior]

another settlement needs your help!

lol

[Anonymous Coward]

i suggest if that law is not enough, maybe you can go back even further, maybe theres something in the english law they can use after all you were all just british at some point, hell, why stop there, maybe there is something in old spanish law you can use since the spanish founded the city of st augustine in florida which still exists today... so thats another option

and if archeologists are lucky and find viking stuff somewhere in the US, you can maybe go search some obscure viking law

so many posibilities

What this thread needs...

[DaveMikulec]

This thread is just screaming for a Bill Gates/Borg avatar.

This is the reason

[Anonymous Coward]

This is the reason Intel is losing focus on the desktop market. Nadella fucked it up good.

Re:This is the reason

[Grishnakh]

Has he? How are his actions actually affecting Microsoft's revenues? If screwing over customers creates more revenue, then he's doing the right thing. After all, we keep seeing with this stuff that customers simply are *not* willing to abandon the Windows platform, no matter how poorly they're treated.

Primary Screen guys

[holophrastic]

Am I the only one who's ever done a presentation off of a computer? Everyone still using overhead projectors with transparencies?

It's been twenty years of presentations. You never use the primary monitor for a presentation. For all sorts of reasons. Windows 10 upgrade? Pfff. How about action notifications, java updates, low-battery warnings, and myriad other bubble alerts -- and clippy, never forget clippy. Not to mention the taskbar itself and general background off-camera control.

Always always always connect your presentation device -- or live television broadcast -- as a secondary monitor, extending your desktop.

This isn't new.

How long before someone dies ...

[Alain Williams]

as a result of one of these stupid popups stopping a PC doing what it is supposed to be doing ? This happens even in a nicely controlled environment where nothing is going wrong ... so why stop the machine doing what it should ?

This would be major popcorn time: watching the lawyers from the deceased duke it out with the MS lawyers. MS would, of course, claim that it was not their fault and that the user was doing something wrong, or anything to divert the blame from themselves. Only possible conclusion: MS Windows is not fit for purpose for any mission critical use.

Re:How long before someone dies ...

[Krishnoid]

Only possible conclusion: MS Windows is not fit for purpose for any mission critical use.

Of course that's the case -- it says that in the EULA. You did have your fancy lawyers read the EULA before you decided to use our software in your medical device, right?

One on Windows

[raymorris]

Maybe a demo being run on Windows.

I haven't used Windows much recently, but my memory of Windows was a lot of really silly reboots . You upgraded your web browser, you must reboot. Wtf? On one of my Linux machines, a CPU was replaced without rebooting.

Re:One on Windows

[Anonymous Coward]

a CPU was replaced without rebooting

Harrys wand can do things like that...

it happened to me today

[idji]

My spine doctor's xray display had the same popup this morning.

Cortana says...

[tehlinux]

It looks like you're trying to give the weather report. Would you like help?

But completely legal?

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

If the customers refuse to do this, and insist on supporting sociopathic and abusive (but completely legal) behavior, what can you do?

Personally these things don't tend to affect me or my businesses, as we long since disabled Windows updates that would cause this kind of problem. However, if (and I stress the "if", because I haven't verified this) some reports I've seen of the default behaviour were even close to accurate, I'm not sure whether Microsoft's behaviour would still completely legal.

For example, if a Windows user had authorised Microsoft to install security updates -- which are in themselves remedies for defects in the original product, almost by definition -- and Microsoft had in fact used the same technical mechanism to replace the entire OS, I can't immediately see how that wouldn't infringe the same computer misuse laws as any other hacker breaking into a system and changing things without authorisation. Our legal system may be lagging rather awkwardly behind modern technology, particularly in areas like software updates and cloud services, but the letter of the law here (I'm in England) is relatively simple in the case of unauthorised access.

I'm actually a little surprised that no-one yet seems to have acted in connection with this. I wonder whether it's because the laws I'm thinking of are criminal matters, so someone would actually have to make a formal complaint against Microsoft to the relevant authorities in order to trigger any sort of investigation. It seems quite plausible that no-one has actually done that, even if the reports are correct and someone did get Windows 10 installed without their consent.

typical windows

[sad_]

I can't count the presentations i've been in where half of the time all kind of popups continue throughout a presentation. just plain horrible, and i'm saying this as a somebody watching the presentations. Lets not forget the countless pictures you can find online about info-screens/kiosks/etc. with some kind of silly popup displayed.
Why do people keep using this? Just put linux/bsd on it, with plain X and the app in full screen mode and you'll get no popups, ever.

It's all fun and games until.....

[Squatting_Dog]

one of these upgrade pop-ups causes a serious problem of some kind at an inopportune moment (dentist chair activity perhaps, or maybe air traffic control). These scenarios may not be the best example, but, you get my point. Will Microsoft be responsible for any liability at that point?

You know...

[fluffynuts]

I had Ubuntu bug me every day for the last week or so to upgrade to 16.04. Fortunately, I had my anti-twisting panties on, so I just dismissed the reminder. And reloaded with good old Debian to get boot times an order of magnitude better and no more crashing pulseaudio. Still, I managed, until now, to refrain from even mentioning it. Because who fucking cares.

WTF???

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm no power user/super gamer, but jeez, even I know how to properly update Windows10.