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'I'll Make Their Life Miserable': Tech CEO Bullies Low-income Vendors By His Home (theguardian.com)

An anonymous reader quotes an article on The Guardian that has caused a spark on social media: A Silicon Valley tech CEO has sparked backlash for comments slamming local fruit vendors, saying he would "make their life miserable" and "destroy" their produce if they were stationed near his house -- making him the latest wealthy Californian entrepreneur to publicly rail against low-income people. Mark Woodward, CEO of software company Invoca, published -- and later deleted -- a Facebook post saying that he would have no qualms about aggressively harassing unauthorized fruit sellers in his neighborhood if they got near his home. "I would go out there and make their life miserable. I would do whatever it took to make them leave. If that meant destroying some of their produce, or standing out there with signs to chase everyone away, Or just making them very uncomfortable, I would do that in a heartbeat."

358 of 524 comments (clear)

  1. And when we have no home no job no doctor by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 5, Interesting

    And when we have no home no job no doctor. We will just hang at your place and go head and call the cops the jail will give us room and board + a doctor.

    1. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And when we have no home no job no doctor. We will just hang at your place and go head and call the cops the jail will give us room and board + a doctor.

      There are already people doing pretty much the same thing because they've fallen off the ladder. It costs way more to keep them in jail rather than help them get back on their feet.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    2. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by kheldan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It costs way more to keep them in jail rather than help them get back on their feet.

      Sure it would, and it could be done. But have you noticed that such things need to be a 'top-down' solution, but instead it seems like 'someone' keeps trying to force people closer to the bottom to solve it instead? It's almost like the rich want to keep reminding the rest of us that we shouldn't complain because it could be made much, much worse for us (e.g., we could be made to 'fall off the ladder', and end up jailed, in essence, for being jobless and homeless -- so you'd better keep your 'proper' place).

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    3. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by tlhIngan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And when we have no home no job no doctor. We will just hang at your place and go head and call the cops the jail will give us room and board + a doctor.

      And that's why when you hear anyone spout "responsibility" or "no more handouts", it's really code for "I'm rich, f**k you, lower my taxes".

      Because welfare and other programs, yes, they are handouts, but they also try to keep people on the straight and narrow and try to help them stay on the right side of the law.

      Cut them off, and they still need to eat - it's not like they're going to find a job because you cut them off (assuming they can hold a job). Instead of buying their food, they're just going to steal it. And steal everything else they need. Throw them in jail? Well, good for them.

      It's just that while the rich lower their taxes by cutting them off, we end up paying for it still. The stores have to make up for the stolen goods, damaged stores, etc, so prices start rising in general. The poor get health care by ER, which is the most expensive health care around (seriously - if you could give them access to a doctor's clinic, you can save so much money - treatment by ER costs double to triple what a doctors office would charge), so we all pay in increased health care costs because they're using the most expensive form of health care we can provide. And then there's the whole justice thing - courts, police, jails, etc., taxes go up so we can house them. It costs over $100K per prisoner per year. And that doesn't even include intangible costs like the degradation of society.

      Of course, the rich save because they don't live in areas that have to deal with these issues.

      So it doesn't matter if you want to preach "responsibility" - you're not going to save money. Sure you save on your taxes, but you'll pay for it everywhere else. Sure it doesn't show up under a neat little line item, but that's just because it gets added up under a bunch of different other line items.

    4. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by Minion+of+Eris · · Score: 2

      Well... up here (Canada) that may be, but in many of the states in the U.S. keeping people locked up makes profit for the private prison systems.

      --
      Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say.
    5. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by kilfarsnar · · Score: 1

      And when we have no home no job no doctor. We will just hang at your place and go head and call the cops the jail will give us room and board + a doctor.

      There are already people doing pretty much the same thing because they've fallen off the ladder. It costs way more to keep them in jail rather than help them get back on their feet.

      But then how would we look down on them and feel superior? All this caring about and helping people really gets in the way of my smug sense of self-worth.

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    6. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      You're not factoring in that a lot of humans are sadists and get off on making life miserable for weaker humans, no matter how much it costs.

    7. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by Pfhorrest · · Score: 2

      But still at the expense of the taxpayer. Housing/feeding/etc prisoners costs the private prisons money, so the government pays them money to do it (more than it costs, so the private prisons profit), and the government gets that money from the taxpayer (either current ones, or future ones via borrowing). One way or another keeping someone in prison costs taxpayer money; the fact that there's a parasitic private entity making it cost even more doesn't change that, it just makes it worse.

      After all, it's not like the private prisons are paid by the prisoners, like a hotel or something.

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
    8. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by Pax681 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It costs way more to keep them in jail rather than help them get back on their feet.

      Sure it would, and it could be done. But have you noticed that such things need to be a 'top-down' solution, but instead it seems like 'someone' keeps trying to force people closer to the bottom to solve it instead? It's almost like the rich want to keep reminding the rest of us that we shouldn't complain because it could be made much, much worse for us (e.g., we could be made to 'fall off the ladder', and end up jailed, in essence, for being jobless and homeless -- so you'd better keep your 'proper' place).

      Yeah and there's a lot of lobbying dollars behind those privatised prisons too , we can't be interrupting their profits with progressive laws!!!

    9. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by TheRaven64 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But still at the expense of the taxpayer

      Yes, but the people who get the benefit are people who own things and so it's good solid American Capitalism(TM). We wouldn't want poor people to benefit from things funded by the taxpayer, that would be Evil Socialism(TM).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    10. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      Hell no! That would be cormanizzem.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    11. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by Pfhorrest · · Score: 2

      The obvious solution is to just kill anyone caught stealing/etc.

      And not in some costly process with appeals and crap like that, that shit runs even more than jailing them for life. Just shoot them on sight.

      While we're at it, why bother paying some other poor person to do the shooting when we can pay some rich buddies to build a robot to do it for us.

      We'll just put "do not kill" RFID chips in anyone who can afford to get them and the rest can be assumed poor and therefore criminal.

      Bam, problem solved. Killbots are the way of the future!

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
    12. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by Pfhorrest · · Score: 3

      1. Governments have powers, not rights, so you're technically wrong while trying to be pedantic. Boo.
      2. If "USA people" had always supported folk who actually needed help, we wouldn't have had tent cities in Central Park in the Great Depression, or any homelessness or other poverty problems ever. The fact that we obviously do and have had such problems proves that private charity does not fix them; if it did, they would be fixed already.
      3. See above.

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
    13. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by phantomfive · · Score: 1, Informative

      have you noticed that such things need to be a 'top-down' solution

      No.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    14. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by SirSlud · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It is unfathomable to me that an electorate can't recognize the conflict of interest that exists if prisons have a profit motive. Americans are very good at marketing. Americans have for profit prisons. American has by far the highest per capita incarceration rate. Do the math.

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    15. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      And then people will shoot the cops as they have nothing to lose and some places like Mexico will not extradite to countries that are seeking the death penalty,

    16. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by kheldan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Whaddyamean 'no'? So the working middle class, who the vast majority of which are just trying to make ends meet every month, are supposed to shoulder the burden of housing and feeding the homeless, instead of the 1% who have 99% of the wealth? Or did you just not understand what I meant by that?

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    17. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by Pfhorrest · · Score: 1

      I think you missed the part about the fully automated killbots.

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
    18. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by Rob+Y. · · Score: 3, Insightful

      He's factoring them in at the appropriate level. I.e., negligible in the course of any sane discussion of public policy.

      Now maybe you were jockeying for a 'funny' mod, and it's whoever modded you 'insightful' that's the idiot here, but I've grown to appreciate the full range of pseudo-libertarian pseudo-thought on here, and can imagine that you really think pointing to sadists will somehow justify prisons as a solution to poverty. "All lives matter" bro. Right on!.

      --
      Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
    19. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      I have a solution for this problem. Have the people caught in theft of property (including any similar white collar crime, such as embezzlement, fraud) shipped out to a large gated area, where they would be free (within the confines of that are) to do whatever they like.

      The only money spent would go towards ensuring nobody gets out. How they survive on the inside should not be a consideration, the area should be large enough for them to try and feed themselves off the land.

      I am thinking Australia qualifies....

    20. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by hey! · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, I've known some rich people; they aren't necessarily assholes.

      The problem is that a rich asshole is still an asshole, and unlike an ordinary asshole he's got an enormous societal and political footprint.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    21. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      You can bet he has stock in private prisons. Nothing scarier has ever been unleashed on this planet not isis not nazi's

      Two words - Ted Cruz.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    22. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      the nazis had flair they made the jews ware and then they put them into camps like the places you are talking about.

    23. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      no medicare/medicaid, = ER's filled up and costing 5-10 times the cost of medicare/medicaid for all.

    24. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      Totally different. Australia is a place made to keep convicts out of the rest of the civilized society, flair is irrelevant and nobody should be forcing these people to do anything, they just shouldn't be able to get out of there.

    25. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And when we have no home no job no doctor. We will just hang at your place and go head and call the cops the jail will give us room and board + a doctor.

      There are already people doing pretty much the same thing because they've fallen off the ladder. It costs way more to keep them in jail rather than help them get back on their feet.

      I'm pretty close to that situation myself. The Canadian health and social support system isn't all that it's made up to be.

      I was a chef for 12 years and my health failed (tentative diagnoses of multiple sclerosis). I'm currently on the edge of losing my apartment, and pretty much have nothing in life other than the roof over my head as it stands. Mortgage and all, this place only costs me $700 a month, which is $300 cheaper than the going rent for a 1BR here. I need a ton of physiotherapy and rehab to put myself back together, but that's miles out of reach.

      So, I have a home for another month, very little equity built up, and no possibility of working. I end up on the street or in jail, and having briefly been homeless, I'll never go back to that again. It does happen to regular people. Sometimes life is just shitty that way. You can plan,save, and make good choices, but sometimes things just don't work out - and when they don't, there really isn't anything to catch you when you fall.

    26. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      It costs way more to keep them in jail rather than help them get back on their feet.

      :O Helping people down on their luck? That's Commie talk!

    27. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by Kohath · · Score: 2

      What does "fix" poverty? Please give us some examples where something was done and the result was no poverty any more.

    28. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by armanox · · Score: 1

      No, I think he saw it and is implying a mass exodus from the US.

      --
      I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
    29. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      It's why I believe sociopaths should be blocked from any position of power. We have enough problems with regular people being assholes without allowing people who literally lack any kind of moral compass to have even the smallest bit of influence.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    30. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by kheldan · · Score: 1

      That is what I'm saying. Please read more carefully.

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      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    31. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      So the working middle class, who the vast majority of which are just trying to make ends meet every month, are supposed to shoulder the burden of housing and feeding the homeless, instead of the 1% who have 99% of the wealth?

      I have no respect for people who are unwilling to help, but want someone else to do the helping. But my point was, it's not clear that a top-down solution can work.

      Also, your numbers suck, the 1% doesn't have 99% of the wealth.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    32. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      Constitution, has no right to provide Healthcare. Not true at least if you are in jail / prison.

      http://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/c...

    33. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 5, Funny

      The obvious solution is to just kill anyone caught stealing/etc.

      But then what would we do with all those empty Wall Street offices?

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    34. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by Pfhorrest · · Score: 1

      "Shoot the cops" doesn't make sense when we're talking about there not being any cops per se.

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
    35. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by Pfhorrest · · Score: 2

      Obviously, we haven't fixed poverty yet, because we still have poverty.

      Which doesn't refute the point that private charity alone was never solution enough, because if it were, it would have fixed poverty. Since poverty isn't fixed yet, private charity isn't enough, and neither are any of the other solutions we've currently implemented.

      (Which doesn't constitute an argument that we should stop those other solutions, any more than it would constitute an argument that we should stop all private charity, which nobody is arguing).

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
    36. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by Pfhorrest · · Score: 1

      Citation needed.

      No seriously, that is an interesting interpretation of history I'm not familiar with and I'd like to hear more about it from something more reliable than an anonymous commenter on Slashdot.

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
    37. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by Pfhorrest · · Score: 1

      I don't think he was pointing to sadists to justify prisons, but rather pointing out that to sadists, the prisons may need no justification; the fact that other people are suffering is enough for them, whether or not it solves any other problem well or at all.

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
    38. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by Pfhorrest · · Score: 2

      The problem is, how do you test for whether someone is a sociopath, and how do you keep the sociopaths who already have power from capturing that selection process to make sure anyone they don't like can't get into power.

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
    39. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by kheldan · · Score: 2

      Also, your numbers suck, the 1% doesn't have 99% of the wealth.

      Oh come on could we please knock off being so pedantic all the time? This is a casual discussion, we're not setting policy for the rest of the country here.

      Now, then.. why wouldn't it work? The people and organizations at the top of the financial foodchain are the ones with the money, why shouldn't they be the ones who are paying to solve problems like homelessness, either directly, or through taxation? Why should the burden be put on people who don't have wealth? Explain your position.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    40. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by Voogru · · Score: 1

      Police also have a profit motive.

    41. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      Now, then.. why wouldn't it work?

      Because homelessness is a local problem that needs to be solved at the local level. "Top-down" solutions don't adapt to the needs locally. And "top-down" solutions don't mean taking all the money from the 1%ers, who don't have enough money to solve the problem your way anyway.

      why shouldn't they be the ones who are paying to solve problems like homelessness, either directly, or through taxation?

      They already pay the majority of the taxes.

      Why should the burden be put on people who don't have wealth?

      Most taxes are not levied on people who do not have wealth. Saying the solution is not top-down says nothing about who is paying for it, only who is prescribing it.

    42. Re: And when we have no home no job no doctor by Pfhorrest · · Score: 1

      How does that work? What happens if you don't pay the fee -- they kick you out of jail? And do inmates even have money to spend? I thought that's why cigarettes were used as makeshift currency, because nobody had actual currency.

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
    43. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      The people and organizations at the top of the financial foodchain are the ones with the money, why shouldn't they be the ones who are paying to solve problems like homelessness, either directly, or through taxation?

      Nah, now you're saying who should pay for it, not how you think it should work. Come on, I'm pretty sure you can think more deeply than that. "Rich people, please fix my problem!!" is kind of how you come across, but I think you can do better.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    44. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by kheldan · · Score: 1

      homelessness is a local problem that needs to be solved at the local level

      It's a national problem that needs to be solved everywhere. Oh and by the way who is going to pay for it?

      They already pay the majority of the taxes.

      That's debatable.

      Most taxes are not levied on people who do not have wealth.

      Again, that's debatable. Rich people have ways of avoiding paying taxes. Or weren't you aware of that?

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    45. Re: And when we have no home no job no doctor by Minion+of+Eris · · Score: 1

      To my understanding (admittedly limited and IANOL), in states such as Louisiana with for-profit prisons, a prisoner is "paid" $2-$3 worth of "commisary credit" for a days work in whatever factory/call-centre/sweatshop is set up. Working for this is further incentivized by the loss of "privileges" (ie: not being in solitary) for those who refuse. This explains why a kid caught with 2 joints worth of pot got 13 years.

      --
      Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say.
    46. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by Kohath · · Score: 1

      Perhaps talk about "fixing" poverty demonstrates a poor understanding of poverty. Since nothing has ever fixed it or come close, it would be easy to make the case that poverty is a permanent part of the human condition and that offering opportunities like education and some basic government services to avoid some of the worst tragedies is a sufficient policy for a society.

    47. Re: And when we have no home no job no doctor by Pfhorrest · · Score: 1

      Jesus Christ, that is unconscionable.

      I want to say more but I don't even know what more to say.

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
    48. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by bogie · · Score: 1

      Stop asking for more Free Entitlements you lazy anti-American communist! Helping your fellow citizens is a sign of weakness!

      --
      If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
    49. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1
      That's mean to suggest the feds. The federal plan takes forever.

      Provincial welfare plans pay extra for someone who is permanently disabled, and MS is one of those illnesses in most provinces. My sister is paralyzed on one side, so she's allotted $950 a month.

      Similar provinces have similar rates. It's not enough to have a great life, but it can keep the wolf from the door.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    50. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      It costs way more to keep them in jail rather than help them get back on their feet.

      :O Helping people down on their luck? That's Commie talk!

      What did you expect - I live in Canada, a social democracy.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    51. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by brantondaveperson · · Score: 1

      Poverty is fixed at least in the sense that enough resources exist to give all the people of the earth a fairly comfortable life. Perhaps not broadband internet to every household everywhere, but at least sufficient food, clothes and shelter for everyone.

      Trouble is, most people want rather more than whatever level of comfort that would be.

    52. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by Pfhorrest · · Score: 1

      Poverty is not caused just by the absence of resources in the world but by the misallocation of the resources.

      There may be enough to give people sufficient food, clothes, and shelter, but people still lack that food, clothes, and shelter, and so are still in poverty.

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
    53. Re: And when we have no home no job no doctor by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Canada does something similar. My sister is a prison guard at a medium/max security prison. It's paid on an hourly basis, usually half the rate of minimum wage. Whether that be taking classes or doing work. Commissary credit is used in turn to pay for luxury items like internet access(if they're allowed), or renting TV's, or other items like pop, chips, cigs and so on.

      The basic idea behind it, is to break them of the habit of criminal life and make them work for something instead. The whole point is to get the prisoners out of their cells and do something other then brood and it works fairly well at resocializing inmates away from criminal behavior to normal life. Here in Canada it's reduced recidivism by around 20% which isn't a drop in the bucket.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    54. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by Gussington · · Score: 1

      So the working middle class, who the vast majority of which are just trying to make ends meet every month,

      Which is it, Working class or Middle class? Or is this the new name for the other 99%'ers now?

    55. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by simula · · Score: 1

      unmod

    56. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      They have 50% of the wealth, but probably closer to 99% of the disposable income (it's a guess...but I'll bet it's good)

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    57. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      A lot of rich people are very conversationally pleasant and polite people, and it isn't until you get to know them better and how they look at the rest of society including their employees, that you learn that they're actually massive assholes.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    58. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by hey! · · Score: 1

      Well, that's true. But some of the rich people I've known are among the best people I know. That's because they have the luxury of being the kind of person they'd like to be, rather than focusing on putting bread on the table.

      The bottom line is that they aren't better or worse as a group than middle class people or poor people, but their material wealth amplifies any extreme tendencies they may have, for good or ill.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    59. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      No, I don't even know why you think that. Here's a graph.

      (Actually, income equality is more equal than wealth equality, because the bottom 20% have zero or negative wealth, because they are in debt. For example, if you have $1000 in the bank, you personally have more than the entire bottom 20% combined. Remember that next time someone tries to lie to you with statistics. Also, poor people often get income from their taxes because of EIC).

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    60. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      I'm not talking after-tax income, I'm talking wealth:

      http://www.theguardian.com/mon...

      I'd guess the 1% has 99% of the disposable income because huge amounts of cash are hoarded by them instead of spent, while the rest of us spend most or all of what we earn on relatively basic stuff that's required to function in a modern society.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    61. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      I'm not talking after-tax income........I'd guess the 1% has 99% of the disposable income

      Either you're drunk or........

      btw, if you make a typical programmer salary, then you're in the global 1%.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    62. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Not drunk, talking about two different issues, wealth (which is known) and disposable income (which I'm guessing at).

      I don't make a typical programmer salary, especially not a typical US-west-coast programmer salary.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    63. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Not drunk, talking about two different issues, wealth (which is known) and disposable income (which I'm guessing at).

      I linked to the disposable income.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    64. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      It's a national problem

      It is inherently a local problem. Homeless people do not live "in the USA", they live "under the bridge at Third and Madison in Sometown". The money to pay for their help is distributed by local agencies. The money is spent for local solutions. There is no "top down solution" because there simply is no way to deal with a local issue like this from the top.

      Oh and by the way who is going to pay for it?

      Well, in a good world, it would be paid for by charity. In the modern world where "the government" has usurped the role of charity, it has to be "the government". But not the federal government, because it is not a top-down problem. It is a local problem.

      Had the government not started to be "charity", then taxpayers wouldn't be paying as much in taxes, and they wouldn't have the attitude that "I'm paying taxes to fix this". We're all being trained that the right way to solve any problem is to hold out our hand and expect someone else to be taxed to pay for the solutions.

      That's debatable.

      No, that's simple fact. From here, for 2011:

      The Top 50 Percent of All Taxpayers Paid 97 Percent of All Income Taxes; the Top 5 Percent Paid 57 Percent of All Income Taxes; and the Top 1 Percent Paid 35 Percent of All Income Taxes in 2011

      The top 5% paid 57% of all income taxes. That's a majority.

      Now, you can argue that "income tax isn't everything", but your "top-down" solution is going to be paid out of income taxes, so yes, it's everything in this context.

      Most taxes are not levied on people who do not have wealth.

      Again, that's debatable.

      No, again, that's a fact. From the same source, already quoted. If the top 50% are paying 97% of the income taxes, then that means that the other 50% are paying only 3% of the tax. Most of the taxes (97%) are not levied on people who don't have wealth (the bottom 50%).

      Rich people have ways of avoiding paying taxes. Or weren't you aware of that?

      Apparently you weren't aware that 5% of the people ("the rich") are paying 57% of the income taxes. Yes, there are tax laws that reduce the amount of taxes someone pays, and some of those reductions require someone to actually have money that would have been taxed. That's obvious. You can't get a deduction for a charitable contribution of money unless you had the money, and poor people aren't likely to be able to take advantage of that law. But then, the poor people didn't have the money and weren't being taxed on it in the first place, so they really haven't lost anything by not being able to deduct what they didn't have in income anyway.

    65. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      On another note, I suspect the constant push for gun ownership benefits the gun/rifle and ammo industries, sale of gun safes etc. I'm just mentoning it there since I don't think I've ever seen it mentioned in web discussions. Useless survival gear has some place in this too. A lot of naked fear-based consumerism comes alongside the prison-security complex that thrives in the same climate of fear. Note that yiu can dial down on that and still have hunting rifles, hiking, fishing etc. There are countries where handguns basically are banned but with lots and lots of hunting rifles (and perhaps tons of WW1 shit etc. but I doubt that stuff is in working order)

    66. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by kheldan · · Score: 1

      Ah I see the problem here. You think I mean 'The Government' when I say "top down", when I mean "rich people". Either directly or through more taxation. But don't sit there and keep repeating to me that the rich are paying all the taxes they should be paying, because I and many others don't believe it. The rich keep getting richer and the poor keep getting poorer; you care to explain that? And if the homeless problem isn't a problem, then why is it still a problem? You can sit there and write figures and percentages all day long and the simple fact remains that rich people keep getting richer, poor people keep getting poorer, people in the middle are getting squeezed more and more, and there are still homeless people who are homeless, and worse, are being treated like criminals in many places. If everything is working as well as you make it out to be, then why do we have these problems? Or are you part of the problem and are just protecting yourself?

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    67. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by grahamsz · · Score: 1

      I think homelessness does need to be addressed at a national level. Our area has reasonable services for the homeless (as i understand it) but the fear is that if we provide further services then we'll essentially create more homeless people who come here because they can get a hot meal and a bed on a cold night.

      If everywhere provided a similar standard then there wouldn't be the same incentive for people to migrate to areas of the country that take better care of them.

    68. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      Ah I see the problem here. You think I mean 'The Government' when I say "top down", when I mean "rich people".

      Well, the solution will have to come from somewhere, and "rich people" aren't going to just band together to hand out money. There will have to be a government involvement, and "top-down", in that context, means "federal government".

      Either directly or through more taxation.

      Yes, well, "directly" is meaningless. "More taxation" is a federal government operation.

      But don't sit there and keep repeating to me that the rich are paying all the taxes they should be paying, because I and many others don't believe it.

      What you believe is irrelevant. The facts back up my statements that they are paying the majority of the taxes already, which you deny, and that taxes aren't levied on people who don't have the wealth, which you also deny. Whether they pay "all they should be paying" is a subjective opinion. You're claims that they aren't paying enough are unsupported by the data that shows they do pay the majority already. Your implication that it is unfair that "rich people" get tax deductions has been dealt with.

      And if the homeless problem isn't a problem,

      You haven't read what I've written, have you? Where did I say it wasn't a problem?

      and worse, are being treated like criminals in many places.

      You're demonstrating the same logical fallacy that many others display. When people break the law, they are criminals. If they are homeless and breaking the law, they are criminals. "Homeless" is irrelevant, and it isn't an exemption from existing laws.

      If everything is working as well as you make it out to be,

      Where the fuck did you get that from?

      Or are you part of the problem and are just protecting yourself?

      I am neither homeless nor am I protecting myself. I'm pointing out your errors of fact, and that the homeless problem is inherently a local problem, not a national one. It cannot be dealt with at a national level because the homeless are inherently local to start with.

    69. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      Our area has reasonable services for the homeless (as i understand it) but the fear is that if we provide further services then we'll essentially create more homeless people who come here because they can get a hot meal and a bed on a cold night.

      You won't create more homeless people when you start handing out free stuff to homeless people. Nobody is going to say "screw this working for a living, I can move to Sometown and get handouts!".

      You WILL attract already homeless people who hear that you are handing stuff out for free. But that's not a reason to try mandating a national solution. Your area is different than mine, and from others. Your solutions need to be different.

      Since you believe that you would attract outsiders, why would you force other communities to become an attractor for them if they don't already have the problem? That's what a nationally mandated plan would accomplish.

      The truth is, there are already places that have more handouts and better deals for the homeless than others, yet the homeless have not congregated there. They're still living in places with no services. Perhaps your fear is unfounded.

    70. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by kheldan · · Score: 1

      1. The rich don't pay their 'fair share' of taxes because they have ways to hide their money (offshore accounts, shell corporations, etc).
      2. Do you even listen to/watch/read the news? In many places homelessness itself is literally treated like a criminal act, and in fact there are laws that are leveraged/perverted into 'anti-homelessness' laws; they are incarcerated for being homeless.
      2a. Never mind the fact that sometimes in some places they're just scooped up and dropped off in some other town because they don't want the visual of homeless people on their streets.
      2b. Quit saying homeless people are arrested for committing crimes, that's utter bullshit! They're being arrested in places just for being homeless!
      3. You keep saying it's a 'local problem' but it's ALL OVER THE UNITED STATES, it's time for it to be handled on a NATIONAL LEVEL, you nitwit!
      4. You keep acting like people with money are 'handling' the homelessness problem; then how come charity organizations keep hounding working people for their money to 'combat homelessness'? Clearly people with millions (or BILLIONS) of dollars need to ante up, instead of sitting on their wealth, hiding it all over the place, not paying their taxes (as described above!) and stop using the homeless as a 'warning' to everyone else to not get 'uppity' (which doubtlessly you're going to scoff at and mock me for saying, now).

      Clearly you have your head in the sand, or you just don't give a fuck, or maybe you're one of the rich people who has deluded yourself into believing that there's no 'homeless problem' and therefore you don't need to do anything. Either way: stop spreading non-truth. We're more or less the richest nation on the planet, and we have even ONE person living on the streets? Unacceptable!

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    71. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      1. The rich don't pay their 'fair share' of taxes because they have ways to hide their money (offshore accounts, shell corporations, etc).

      Yeah, they're so good at hiding their money that they already pay the majority of the income taxes -- in a highly disproportionate amount. I'd say that when 5% of the people pay 57% of the taxes, that's too much and well above fair.

      2. Do you even listen to/watch/read the news? In many places homelessness itself is literally treated like a criminal act,

      Yes, and that is not true.

      3. You keep saying it's a 'local problem' but it's ALL OVER THE UNITED STATES, it's time for it to be handled on a NATIONAL LEVEL, you nitwit!

      Thanks for the gratuitous insult. Just because it happens in a lot of places doesn't mean the solution has to be national in scope. The best, and correct, solutions come from the local level.

      4. You keep acting like people with money are 'handling' the homelessness problem;

      Oh stop it. You're putting words in my mouth. I never said anything like that.

      then how come charity organizations keep hounding working people for their money to 'combat homelessness'?

      Because charities ask people for money all the time. Sheesh. It's not a conspiracy of the rich to get charities to do what charities are supposed to do.

      Clearly people with millions (or BILLIONS) of dollars need to ante up

      Many of them do. When it is your money you can tell them how to spend it.

      not paying their taxes (as described above!)

      Yeah, in your world, 5% of the people paying 57% of the income taxes is "not paying their taxes".

      and stop using the homeless as a 'warning' to everyone else to not get 'uppity' (which doubtlessly you're going to scoff at and mock me for saying, now).

      Well, it is a pretty stupid statement. I'm not sure how I would use a homeless person as a warning to anyone, nor can I imaging how a "rich person" would do that.

      Clearly you have your head in the sand, or you just don't give a fuck,

      Clearly you are ignoring the facts, both about the amount of taxes the rich pay, and the proper level of support for the problem. And you've managed to come up with some marvelously stupid interpretations of what I've said. Like how you get this:

      or maybe you're one of the rich people who has deluded yourself into believing that there's no 'homeless problem' and therefore you don't need to do anything.

      When did I say there was no problem? Isn't a claim that it is a local problem a clear statement that there IS a problem? Except to you, I guess.

      and we have even ONE person living on the streets? Unacceptable!

      The fact that you have disposable income that you use for Internet access instead of giving it all to the local homeless people in your area tells me how unacceptable you think the problem is. You say the charities "hound" people -- but you keep your money from them. That's because you think it is a problem that OTHER people should pay to solve. OTHER people should be forced to pay up. OTHER people, OTHER people ...

    72. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by kheldan · · Score: 1

      The fact that you have disposable income that you use for Internet access instead of giving it all to the local homeless people in your area tells me how unacceptable you think the problem is. You say the charities "hound" people -- but you keep your money from them. That's because you think it is a problem that OTHER people should pay to solve. OTHER people should be forced to pay up. OTHER people, OTHER people ...M

      Yeah, sure, my $40000 per year that I make I should give away to everyone else, and live in a cardboard box myself. I don't own property, I don't have investments, I don't have retirement, I don't have savings, and I don't have any luxuries, and I'm supposed PAY when rich fucks hide their money in the Caymans so they don't have to pay taxes? Shove it up your ass, your fucking piece of shit troll. I hope you get sent to prison for tax evasion.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    73. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      It's almost like the rich want to keep reminding the rest of us that we shouldn't complain because it could be made much, much worse for us (e.g., we could be made to 'fall off the ladder', and end up jailed, in essence, for being jobless and homeless -- so you'd better keep your 'proper' place).

      Might as well post it here.......

      "Are there no prisons?" asked Scrooge. "Plenty of prisons," said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.

      "And the Union workhouses?" demanded Scrooge. "Are they still in operation?" "They are. Still," returned the gentleman, "I wish I could say they were not."

      "The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?" said Scrooge. "Both very busy, sir."

      "Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course," said Scrooge. "I'm very glad to hear it."

      "Under the impression that they scarcely furnish Christian cheer of mind or body to the multitude," returned the gentleman, "a few of us are endeavouring to raise a fund to buy the Poor some meat and drink, and means of warmth. We choose this time, because it is a time, of all others, when Want is keenly felt, and Abundance rejoices. What shall I put you down for?"

      "Nothing!" Scrooge replied.

      "You wish to be anonymous?"

      "I wish to be left alone," said Scrooge. "Since you ask me what I wish, gentlemen, that is my answer. I don't make merry myself at Christmas and I can't afford to make idle people merry. I help to support the establishments I have mentioned: they cost enough: and those who are badly off must go there." "Many can't go there; and many would rather die." "If they would rather die," said Scrooge, "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population."

      Seeing clearly that it would be useless to pursue their point, the gentlemen withdrew. Scrooge resumed his labours with an improved opinion of himself, and in a more facetious temper than was usual with him.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    74. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      have you noticed that such things need to be a 'top-down' solution

      No.

      Well, that settles that!

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    75. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      It directly answers the question that was asked! A question that was quite personal towards me, I'm sure.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    76. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      It directly answers the question that was asked! A question that was quite personal towards me, I'm sure.

      No.

      Anyhow, I'm just funning with ya.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    77. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      It is unfathomable to me that an electorate can't recognize the conflict of interest that exists if prisons have a profit motive. Americans are very good at marketing. Americans have for profit prisons. American has by far the highest per capita incarceration rate. Do the math.

      Wait'll we get a real waiting list for replacement organs for transplants.

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    78. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      He's factoring them in at the appropriate level. I.e., negligible in the course of any sane discussion of public policy.

      Now maybe you were jockeying for a 'funny' mod, and it's whoever modded you 'insightful' that's the idiot here, but I've grown to appreciate the full range of pseudo-libertarian pseudo-thought on here, and can imagine that you really think pointing to sadists will somehow justify prisons as a solution to poverty. "All lives matter" bro. Right on!.

      You are living through an era when approximately 50% of the voting population believe we need to get rid of all the workers who are willing to pick fruit and vegetables at the current low rate of pay; and simultaneously believe that raising the mandated minimum wage in general will destroy businesses and hurt the economy.
      You can have a sane discussion of public policy, but that bears no relation to actual public policy and how it gets decided.

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    79. Re:And when we have no home no job no doctor by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      "And that's why when you hear anyone spout "responsibility" or "no more handouts", it's really code for "I'm rich, f**k you, lower my taxes"."

      That's a very limited view of what it means. You should enlighten yourself for the spoutings, "responsibility" or "no more handouts", means different things to different people.

      1. The USA Federal Government, via the Constitution, has no right to provide Healthcare, Welfare, Education to anyone (with the exception of their employees). 2. Taxpayers should not be forced to support those who do not need support (recognizing that USA people have always supported folk who actually needed help). 3. Private endeavors, both profit and non-profit, work better than Federal Government endeavors. 4. Lots more...

      I have seen the effects of USAID (USA Taxpayer money in the form of grants) in Africa. When handled by charitable, international concerns, a tremendous amount of work can be accomplished by starting the people on the road to self-sufficiency. It works in Africa because the Governments don't care about PC stuff. I have also seen the waste of USAID when run by Government agencies. There, like in the USA, the money is a route to corruption and continuing squalor for those the USAID is suppose to help.

      In the USA, private organizations can follow the same principles and achieve similar results. But when the Governments intervene, the Tax Money is wasted -- corruption and squalor remain. "Letting George [Washington, i.e., the Federal Government] do it" -- community development is an exercise in futility because the USA Federal Government cares more about itself than it does its citizens or its responsibilities.

      I have seen the alluded to examples with my own eyes and by interviewing people who participated before I did, while I did and after I did.

      The fact that there are individuals in need of help is de facto evidence that charity isn't working in that case. (And I hasten to add that in cases where charity is working, you don't see the needy people, so the only evidence you get is in the cases where it doesn't work, because the cases where it does slip below the radar).
      Given that, however, the charitable impulse would be to focus primarily on the person who needs help and getting them help via whatever means necessary, rather than evaluating the pluses and minuses of charity vs government and writing government assistance off on a philosophical/theoretical basis (and I don't mean that as a putdown).

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    80. Re: And when we have no home no job no doctor by Bad2bone · · Score: 1

      Not all rich are bad. It's actually about the same percentage as the number of criminals in society. However, because of there influence, the bad ones tend to do a whole lot more damage. There are two things that they have done that have to be fixed. Trickle down economics, they kept it. Outsourcing to foreign entities, how could anyone in their right mind support this? It basically is sucking the life out of the United States. Don't agree? Think of it this way: Money is blood to the economy. More of it is going out to foreign countries than we are generating. The United States is bleeding to death.

    81. Re: And when we have no home no job no doctor by Bad2bone · · Score: 1

      Well said...

    82. Re: And when we have no home no job no doctor by Bad2bone · · Score: 1

      Private prisons are built on a very bad business model. It is in their interest to have as many prisoners as possible. For both the fees from the government and the labor they provide in prison industry. This model does not include rehabilitation or redemption. If it did they would cutting their revenue stream. Privatization of the prison system is a very bad idea. It is more expensive than the state and I bet you the return to jail rate is higher.

    83. Re: And when we have no home no job no doctor by Bad2bone · · Score: 1

      You are a fool. The 2nd Amendment is in the Constitution for one reason and one reason only, "To protect our Liberty". Period. From all threats to it. That is the first and foremost reason for it's existence. If we loose the 2nd Amendment then will loose everything. Because, to me, Liberty is everything.

    84. Re: And when we have no home no job no doctor by Bad2bone · · Score: 1

      They didn't help anyone either, they just sent them to Siberia.

  2. Christ... by Tau+Neutrino · · Score: 4, Funny

    what an asshole.

    --
    Lemmings are silly; dinosaurs are extinct.
    1. Re:Christ... by Salgak1 · · Score: 4, Funny

      No. An asshole has a USE. . .

    2. Re:Christ... by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 1

      Makes one want to go do donuts on his lawn, a fitting punishment for his particular crime.

    3. Re:Christ... by Lead+Butthead · · Score: 1

      This loop doesn't live in a gated community, and his title already went to his head?

      --
      ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
    4. Re:Christ... by misosoup7 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Then you are just doing what he's doing, being a vigilante.

      If he wanted the fruit vendors gone and they were truly unauthorized, then call the police on their non-emergency number. It's that simple. If the fruit vendor were authorized, then take it up with the city. Going there and destroy people's produce is destruction of property, which is vandalism or malicious mischief in California punishable by up to a year in prison.

    5. Re:Christ... by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2, Interesting

      they were truly unauthorized

      And there you have it, the same solution the asshole of the story wants. "I don't like what they are doing, lets require permits to earn a living"

      This kind of nanny state solution is exactly why the Elites of the world (like this asshole) think they can control others.

      Here's my thought. Is the road, sidewalk or otherwise public? Then ignore the whiny asshole. Fuck adding layers of additional government control on people, we have enough already. ENOUGH already. WHY must the solution to every whiny asshole be "More Regulation"???

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    6. Re:Christ... by kilfarsnar · · Score: 1

      No. An asshole has a USE. . .

      Yeah, shit comes out of it. That seems to fit the description for this case!

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    7. Re:Christ... by kilfarsnar · · Score: 1

      Going there and destroy people's produce is destruction of property, which is vandalism or malicious mischief in California punishable by up to a year in prison.

      Not if you're rich, I'll bet.

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    8. Re:Christ... by HornWumpus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The county has an easement to put and maintain a road across the front of my property. They can even make me pay to add a sidewalk when they get around to it.

      I do in fact own half the road in front of my house. I 'marked' the four corners of the lot when I first bought the place! Can't stop people from driving down it, the road is public in a limited sense.

      The county cannot simply permit a third party to build a business on my property. They would have to 'adverse posses' it first.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    9. Re:Christ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      CEO of a telemarketing company. What did you expect?

    10. Re:Christ... by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Going there and destroy people's produce is destruction of property, which is vandalism or malicious mischief in California punishable by up to a year in prison.

      I live in Texas, it is often punishable by death*. I'm not advocating DOING this, just pointing out exactly what you said. If we're just going to throw law and order out the window and inflict suffering on our fellow man because what they do annoys us. Doesn't really sound very nice, and certainly this will escalate. Incensed by a newly damaged lawn, our temper-challenged CEO will likely step this one up and retaliate. Someone will end up being hurt over unlicensed fruit sales.

      * As long as you can find a way to couch it in the right terms under the castle doctrine or property crimes laws

    11. Re:Christ... by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

      I know of plenty of people who would act or have acted as this guy said he would, and those are all low income or middle class people. The richer people get, the more protective they get of their surroundings, but every class has its arseholes. This has very little to do with him being a rich CEO.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    12. Re:Christ... by gander666 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      He is "Shit with feet".

      --
      Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress ... but I repeat myself. - Mark T
    13. Re:Christ... by sjames · · Score: 2

      So the only problem you see with his attitude is failure to outsource?

    14. Re:Christ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That insult was uncalled for.

      You owe an apology to fecal matter.

    15. Re:Christ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Im willing to bet it would qualify under Texas Penal Code Section 9.41

      "Sec. 9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY. (a) A person in lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful interference with the property.

      (b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible, movable property by another is justified in using force against the other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit after the dispossession and:

      (1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no claim of right when he dispossessed the actor; or

      (2) the other accomplished the dispossession by using force, threat, or fraud against the actor."

    16. Re:Christ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      A public road or sidewalk does not mean it is usable for every purpose, and some usages will inevitably disrupt others usage of that same public property. So how are you to weigh the balance? Do we have to allow you to set up your vending stand anywhere you want?

      But I notice you complaining about "More Regulation" so do you have another option for us?

    17. Re:Christ... by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      Read the story. They aren't on his property, just down the road.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    18. Re:Christ... by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      And he's talking about what he would do if they tried to setup in front of his house.

      The point remains the road is public in a limited sense.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    19. Re:Christ... by misosoup7 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm not saying what he's doing is right. But I'm also saying even if you are poor, you don't get a free pass to not follow the law. And if you think the law is incorrect, petition it to get it changed. Solve problems in a civil manner.

      What shouldn't happen is bringing your own brand of justice outside of the law. That's anarchy and it's not really good for anyone.

    20. Re:Christ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So our fruit seller can shot the CEO in self defense?

    21. Re:Christ... by misosoup7 · · Score: 2

      I can agree to that, being a vigilante is not the way to go.

      Although I have to say he probably doesn't have that great of a lawn to start with given our nice little drought over here in CA.

    22. Re:Christ... by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      indeed, violating city ordinances and safe handling laws.

      oh, you meant the guy that wants the law upheld

    23. Re:Christ... by sjames · · Score: 1

      Even better in the mean time, cut a guy some slack and DON'T call the cops.

    24. Re:Christ... by VAXcat · · Score: 1

      But the Texas deadly force statues don't allow you to use deadly force to defend yourself while you're committing a crime - and these fruit vendors are apparently breaking the law, so use of deadly force is denied to them legally.

      --
      There is no God, and Dirac is his prophet.
    25. Re:Christ... by thesupraman · · Score: 1

      No, no you dont.
      They have in effect taken that land, it is now public land, if you think anything else then you are simply misguided.
      They may not own it in the sense that they could sell it, but they certainly control it and you have lost the right to
      control use of it (including more than just driving down it).
      It is no longer *your property*, so yes, they could happily license someone to carry out business there, on their
      easement.

      Of course, and even more misguidedly, that in itself is a very unusual situation, and most certainly does not apply to most
      public roads. Most peoples section boundaries do not extend to the center of the road, they are in fact quite a distance
      back from the edge of the road. I am surprised that yours does not, however that is possible, if very very rare.
      This guy is just trying to claim control of *public* land, lets hope he gets what is coming to him for trying to control something
      that is not his.

    26. Re:Christ... by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Legally, it's an easement for a few specific purposes, traffic, and basically plumbing.

      You bet your ass they aren't using it for any other purpose. As I mentioned, I pissed on the yellow lines at the property line, it's mine.

      These easements are settled, if someone came to the county with a plan to stir this up they would find themselves bouncing down the courthouse steps on their asses. The scumbags (local politicians) know they wouldn't just get voted out, they would get tarred, feathered and run out of town on a rail.

      And this is CA, albeit a relatively sensible part.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    27. Re:Christ... by rwise2112 · · Score: 1

      then call the police on their non-emergency number. It's that simple.

      No, use the emergency number - that same as if you didn't get enough ketchup on your hotdog, or something.

      --

      "For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert"
    28. Re:Christ... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I don't even own down to the sidewalk where I live. I maintain the ground from property line to street, but it isn't legally mine. In my neighborhood, the road is public in all senses, and so is the sidewalk.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    29. Re:Christ... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      There are things that are illegal that aren't actually crimes. Around here, if you get ticketed for something and just have to pay a fixed fine, it apparently isn't considered a crime.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    30. Re:Christ... by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      Then you are just doing what he's doing, being a vigilante. If he wanted the fruit vendors gone and they were truly unauthorized, then call the police on their non-emergency number. It's that simple. If the fruit vendor were authorized, then take it up with the city. Going there and destroy people's produce is destruction of property, which is vandalism or malicious mischief in California punishable by up to a year in prison.

      He could probably afford to buy all their fruit @ six AM and send them home. Then he could sell the fruit in the company cafeteria. Or hire the vendors for the rest of the day to be human targets while he hurled the fruit at them, which would probably be more to his liking.

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
  3. Help me out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    How should this thread play out? Are unlicensed vendors the noble poor today? Are we supposed to be pro-regulations or anti-regulations?

    1. Re:Help me out by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Corporatist vs. Entrepreneur

    2. Re:Help me out by whoozwah · · Score: 2

      We are supposed to be pro-human. There are ways to go about getting someone to relocate a mobile business such as this. I personally might take an afternoon and ride around looking for areas where they might do more business and then give them that information. We really choose to be assholes to each other. We can choose not to as well.

    3. Re:Help me out by shaitand · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Or simply buy their bag of oranges and give them to staff. It's not even a sum of money someone in the upper middle class would miss and you'd brighten the lives (as well as garnering loyalty and likely better quality work) of your staff at the same.

    4. Re:Help me out by rochrist · · Score: 1

      How about anti-asshole?

    5. Re:Help me out by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Given the current silicon valley fad for doing dubiously legal things and worshiping it as 'disruption'; I'd say that this legacy economy NIMBY luddite is just unjustifiably enraged at the notion of disruptive entrepreneurship happening where it might affect his precious property values, rather than somebody elses'. Were this a context where there was a greater general respect for the idea that "we restrict certain things because we've determined that they make quality of life worse", I'd be inclined to be more sympathetic; but here I'm going with 'entrepreneur lashes out at entrepreneurs poorer than he is for for unaesthetic in his presence'.

    6. Re:Help me out by Lead+Butthead · · Score: 1

      So you want to plug that asshole with... what?

      --
      ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
    7. Re:Help me out by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That is because you're an asshole of the same level as this CEO.

    8. Re:Help me out by phantomfive · · Score: 1
      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    9. Re:Help me out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      When did having people bring you inexpensive fresh produce become a problem that needed solving?

    10. Re:Help me out by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      It may take awhile to figure that out, so in the meantime, I both applaud his courageous stand against freeloaders while deploring his cowardly assault on the downtrodden.

    11. Re:Help me out by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      Who is a scofflaw? The street vendor? They have done nothing wrong but trying to EARN a living. I am a Libertarian, and this kind of response by you (assuming you really are anti-street vendor) is shameful. The real villains in this are all the people who think people earning a living is somehow evil. The worse ones are the ones that think they need regulating at all, simply because some elitist doesn't like them.

      Damn Statists

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    12. Re:Help me out by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

      Only if they have an app.

    13. Re:Help me out by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      How should this thread play out? Are unlicensed vendors the noble poor today? Are we supposed to be pro-regulations or anti-regulations?

      Well, if I don't help the underdog because screw him its his own fault for not making himself smarter, then I'm an asshole and people will become vocal against me and I think I should be allowed to talk and they should all shut up. If I do want to help him then I'm an SJW and, for reasons that will grace us with their presence at a later time once a sufficient number of people take the right side, and that will make me a hypocrite.

      Hmm... do I want to be an asshole and rely on the philosophy of 'tough love' to let me sleep through the night, or do I want to suffer the indignity of manufactured hypocrisy. Decisions ... decisions.

      Ah, well, while I'm making that decision I might as well go read the article! :D
       

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    14. Re:Help me out by narcc · · Score: 1

      the unauthorized people set up in front of someone's house. It's right there, in the second line of his "rant."

      Sounds to me like his neighbor doesn't have a problem with those "unauthorized people" selling fruit there. Maybe he should talk to his neighbor and convince him that having dirty poor "people" (a term he uses very loosely) in the neighborhood is icky and gross, and they shouldn't allow them to sell fruit there.

      For all we know, they are setting up stands on private property, and taking business away from, you know, licensed vendors

      For all we know is right. We don't know. We don't know what "unauthorized" means. (I suspect he means "looks Mexican") For all we know, those vendors are properly licensed, and they have the property owner's permission to sell fruit at that location.

      You might want to ask yourself why he's ranting online and threatening violence rather than simply phoning the local police. Why is he apologizing, if these folks really are running afoul of the law? The answer here, I believe, is pretty obvious.

      This is a hit piece against a rich white guy, clear and simple.

      Well, yeah. If what he was saying was popular, though, it wouldn't be. A public shaming is a pretty common way to get people like this to conform to social norms. As threatening violence against poor fruit vendors isn't socially acceptable, the article reads like a hit piece, rather than the profile of an American hero.

    15. Re:Help me out by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      At first glance, I thought you were looking for a date but then i remembered this is California so it is likely an orange or their own head but that creates a problem too.

      Maybe we should think about it a bit.

    16. Re:Help me out by shaitand · · Score: 1

      If they are actually on the property but out front of your house is not your property at least not from the sidewalk forward, even if the city requires you to pay for the upkeep it's still public property.

      As for unlicensed and no permit, that is never an issue for the person who happens to own a near by house. It may or may not be an issue for the city that isn't getting it's cut (or the official who isn't) but a guy with a bag of oranges isn't really likely to be able to bribe an inspector anyway... and if you don't think that's how it works you've never been a local business trying to get through it before. The code is complicated and enough stuff left to the inspectors discretion they can tie you up for years on what is obviously a good faith effort to be compliant and possess no actual risk. They'll schedule the follow up to see if you moved a curtain 6 months out at each step. But almost all of that applies to fixed vendors. Mobile vendors like food trucks often either require no special permits or only need one to park in certain areas of the city.

      I'm not sure if there actually is a place where someone with no fixed or mobile installation like the illegal holding a bag of oranges beside the road actually requires any sort of permit.

    17. Re: Help me out by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      "Would have" not "would of" you fucking mouth breather.

    18. Re: Help me out by bmk67 · · Score: 1

      You missed a comma, you miserable cunt.

    19. Re:Help me out by thesupraman · · Score: 1

      This.

      I bet if people were using an app where everyone could list sources of 'local fresh organic produce! made available in your local area!'
      so you could walk down the street to get it, it would be being showered in millions in VC.

      Sigh.

    20. Re:Help me out by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      Who is a scofflaw? The street vendor? They have done nothing wrong but trying to EARN a living. I am a Libertarian,

      So, in libertarian thought, how many laws can one ignore when one is just "trying to EARN a living"?

      I'm trying to earn a living by transporting people around the city. I don't have a driver's license, and my car has no registration, but I am just "trying to EARN a living". Am I ok?

      I'm helping people by providing a gasoline delivery service. The laws prohibit such action, but I am trying to earn a living. Does the law not apply to me?

      "Trying to EARN a living" does not supersede existing laws. I'm trying to earn a living as an assassin... I'm not a scofflaw!

      The real villains in this are all the people who think people earning a living is somehow evil.

      You're making an assumption of motive that is invalid. Objecting to people who break the law in the course of trying to make a living is not objecting to them making a living, it's objecting to the violation of law.

    21. Re:Help me out by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      So, were you thinking "fresh.ly" for the painfully twee URL; or "RipeSocial" for the pointless-but-mandatory social networking tie-in? I think that the VCs would really like this one if we could get the filthy poor people out of the picture and hidden behind a nice app. Maybe one with instagram integration so that you could take pointless food pictures of your fruit right before you eat it!

    22. Re:Help me out by dywolf · · Score: 1

      its a variation on the argument they used after NYPD choked out the guy selling loose cigarettes and killed him.

      libertarians turned it around and blamed the left for writing laws, saying laws killed him....not the NYPD who ignored orders to not use chokeholds and overreacted to a man selling loose cigarettes.

      its beyond stupid, but typical for people like the GP.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
  4. Two-Sided by bzn · · Score: 1

    Whilst understandable, (I don't want people trying to sell things outside my house), destroying stuff is a bit of a dick move.

    Full disclosure, I haven't read the article yet.

    1. Re:Two-Sided by srmalloy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be." -- Rita Rudner

      Apparently the bar for this level of wealth has been dropping significantly over the years.

    2. Re:Two-Sided by shaitand · · Score: 1

      What about a lemonade stand? Girl scout cookies?

      In Florida people just live in gated communities. This guy likely lives in an entirely gated home. I doubt he'd even see them other than when he drives by.

    3. Re:Two-Sided by pr0fessor · · Score: 1

      If someone parked a fruit truck in front of my house and started waving down passing cars to try and sell them fruit. I would be annoyed and call a cop.

      There are two farmers markets within 3 miles of my house one is sponsored by various community organizations and is free to the vendors.

    4. Re:Two-Sided by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 2

      The last I looked, intentionally destroying someone's property (destruction of property) to scare them away (intimidation) are crimes.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    5. Re:Two-Sided by jellomizer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem is not two sided. We as a culture, would much rather ignore the problems of the poor than face them.
      This argument "I don't want to see poor people" are Coded in a lot of different ways.
      "Worried about property values", "Maintain community values", "Allow our children to safely play outside"...
      But it really comes down to the fact that we don't want to see poor people. Because they can be scary because there isn't much for them to lose. And we may emotionally feel bad for them, and we don't want to feel bad.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    6. Re:Two-Sided by jedidiah · · Score: 1, Troll

      Contrary to the current liberal narrative, upward mobility is quite possible. Some of us have engaged in this specifically to GET AWAY from the crap you clearly can't relate to.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    7. Re:Two-Sided by gfxguy · · Score: 1

      The difference is you set up a lemonade stand, you know, in front of YOUR house. If you skip the hype and read what he wrote, he said "if that was my house..."

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    8. Re:Two-Sided by gfxguy · · Score: 1

      So the unlicensed, "unauthorized" vendor should feel free to go to the police.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    9. Re:Two-Sided by gfxguy · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You realize he doesn't mention the word "poor?" He's only ranting against an authorized vendor setting up and selling in front of someone's house? And his rant was "if that was my house...?" This is a hit piece on a wealthy white guy for being wealthy and white.... the article continues on about tech companies and income disparity - it's ridiculous. All this guy was saying was that he didn't want an unauthorized "farmers market" set up in front of his house. I live in a fairly cheap middle class neighborhood... and I wouldn't want that, either - no comment about the financial status of those involved, it's entirely meaningless.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    10. Re:Two-Sided by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Yes, they should. A small fine and getting this asshole is worth it.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    11. Re:Two-Sided by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 2

      Possible isn't probable.

    12. Re:Two-Sided by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      But sometimes people really are worried about property values, and really do want their children to safely play outside.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    13. Re:Two-Sided by Jason+Levine · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Apparently, some people think that the first step towards being filthy rich is to treat people like garbage.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    14. Re:Two-Sided by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      If a car is parked in your parking lot you are not free to destroy it yourself. Destroying someone else's property, even if it's on your property, is still a crime.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    15. Re:Two-Sided by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      I am free to call the tow truck on vehicles though.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    16. Re:Two-Sided by shaitand · · Score: 1

      Sounds like you were less enterprising than me, you'll never score a new bike with that attitude. I set up on the sidewalk of the street that gave the best mix of being slow enough for people to stop and busy enough to keep them coming. It's public property. You can park in front of anyone's house as well.

    17. Re:Two-Sided by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You realize he doesn't mention the word "poor?"

      "The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."

    18. Re:Two-Sided by gfxguy · · Score: 1

      Because people seem incapable of regulating themselves... so they do things like set up shop in front of someone's house. I don't like all the rules and regulations, and I think they are generally abused by the people making the rules, but I don't see a problem with the government telling vendors that they can't set up in front of someone's private residence if those vendors don't have the common sense/courtesy to not do it on their own.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    19. Re:Two-Sided by pr0fessor · · Score: 1

      There are a couple farmer's markets close in my area and one of them would be free for them to park their fruit truck, so chances are if they are in front of my house there is something more going on than just an innocent business person looking for a place to sell his goods. Stolen truck or goods maybe?

      Are you sure you want to tell them you want them to leave yourself that conversation may end with it's a stolen truck and they just shot you?

    20. Re:Two-Sided by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      So you found a way to move upward in life, you use this found skill to escape the lower class and ignore them, vs using the ability of your new found status to help out such people.

      I hate sounding preachy, but you shouldn't use wealth to give yourself some moral superiority.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    21. Re:Two-Sided by Pfhorrest · · Score: 1

      Below a certain threshold, upward mobility grows possible for an increasingly smaller threshold of the populace. The way our economy functions, there is a pressure away from the middle class; the further below it you are, the harder you are pushed down, and the fewer people there will be able to fight against that current to work their way. Conversely, the further above it you are, the more you are buoyed up by forces other than your own hard work, and the more it will take spectacular incompetence to fail against those odds. If you started out around the middle class or above, of course "upward mobility" looks obvious. Or if you are an exceptional person able to overcome those downward forces like no other, of course then it looks obvious too.

      But an average person starting out far below average can't expect, by their average abilities, to work to an average place in life; their average abilities aren't enough to overcome the downward forces they're facing. While an average person starting out far above average can expect to coast through life if they just show up every day and follow the steps laid out before them. Yes, spectacular talent and dedication can overcome those pressures and let someone rise from the pits to an acceptable life, and spectacular incompetence and mismanagement can wreck an inherited fortune, but that's not the way to bet on a random person in those circumstances.

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
    22. Re:Two-Sided by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Well, actually in most cases it is not public property. The landowner owns to the middle of the street and sometimes completely across it. The city or government entities have a public right of way for the sidewalk and road surfaces. But this right of way is not unlimited. For instance you you can be cited for jaywalking if you cross the road in an unauthorized way. You can be restricted from freeways if you are walking or in a vehicle that goes under a specified speed.

      There will be cases where it actually is public property. But that often has restrictions too. For instance, try putting a cross or nativity scene in the yard at the courthouse or open your stand in from of the mayor's office or police station. You will need a permit and follow some rules. Not saying it is right but it is the way it is.

    23. Re:Two-Sided by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      After getting authorization from the police.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    24. Re:Two-Sided by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      Yup, someone selling Fruits and Vegetables OMG MUST BE STOLEN is always my first response.

      And vegetable thieves are really violent in your parts of the world, I would suggest you need to move.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    25. Re:Two-Sided by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      Because people seem incapable of regulating themselves... so they do things like set up shop in front of someone's house.

      And government does a much better job of that, arresting little girls for selling lemonade and cookies. I'll take the occasional non-regulating adult if we can get rid of government over regulating every last aspect of our lives. Security vs Liberty and all that.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    26. Re:Two-Sided by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      No, in a parking lot all you need is a 'Non customer's cars will be towed' sign (to avoid them being able to sue you for the tow fees). From my house I don't even need that, it's on my property and I want it gone...

      Only rub: The tow truck drive won't take it if there are people in it. So you'd have to distract them long enough for the driver to get it hooked and one end in the air.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    27. Re:Two-Sided by Jhon · · Score: 1

      " Why does it bother you that selling food to earn a living, and is such a problem that it needs government intervention?"

      Because without someone checking on the how the food is prepared and stored is a recipe for food poisoning.

      By applying for a license and submitting to inspection we dramatically minimize that risk. This is a good thing.

      What I'm seeing in my area are bunches of food trucks (over several blocks) -- which are putting local restaurants out of business. This isn't necessarily bad as the trucks are licensed, clean and inspected. It's just a 'shift' which is to be expected when someone finds a way to do something cheaper.

      However, cutting out "rent" as part of one's overhead is a LOT different that cutting out proper cleaning procedures and storage procedures for perishables. The former saves a business owner money as does the latter -- but not at the expense of risking their customers health.

    28. Re:Two-Sided by Jhon · · Score: 2

      "I hate sounding preachy, but you shouldn't use wealth to give yourself some moral superiority."

      Most "opportunity" is available and achievable at the cost of some sacrifice. What we have are few people who are willing to live elsewhere (where they might find a job) or even more basic -- holding off marriage and parenthood until one can afford a family.

      If you want to dramatically reduce a chance to live in poverty, don't do drugs, dont drink, work hard in school and DO NOT HAVE KIDS without a spouse and until you can afford them. After that, it's about living where you can find work.

    29. Re:Two-Sided by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      And you have such a sign posted? I doubt it.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    30. Re:Two-Sided by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      If I owned a parking lot, you bet I would.

      At home, I don't need one. They aren't authorized to be on my property and I want them gone, they're gone and can deal with the tow lot. Who have a mechanics lean on the vehicle and can sell it if they don't get paid.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    31. Re:Two-Sided by Jhon · · Score: 1

      "blame the victim,"

      Are you sure? I've been poor. I've been homeless. I lived out of a locker and got a $25/night hotel once or twice a week to shower/get good sleep when I couldn't afford a roof over my head AND school.

      What did I get out of that? I got a college education and zero debt.

      I never thought of myself as a victim. I never thought that society was victimizing me. This was my circumstance at the time and, not being stupid, figured out what I needed to do to change my circumstance.

      I work with a local shelter (one that helped me way-back-when). I know what a motivated person can do to get out living in a shelter. It's not complicated. Those that follow some simple rules are "back on their feet" and have a roof over their head in a few months if not weeks. Those that dont have a self-imposed life-style. They are not victims.

    32. Re:Two-Sided by Gavrielkay · · Score: 1

      Apparently being rich makes you an asshole: http://www.scientificamerican....

    33. Re:Two-Sided by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      I am nowhere near that rich and I have no respect for humanity. I may respect some specific individuals, but humanity? No collective deserves respect, only individuals can have that.

    34. Re:Two-Sided by pr0fessor · · Score: 1

      If the hood of the truck was open and they were checking the engine when someone pulled up and asked to purchase something I would assume they were on their way to the free farmer's market when the truck acted up but it would be unreasonable for a random unknown person to be in my sleepy neighborhood away from all the people selling fruits and vegetables off a truck when there is a free farmers market down the street sponsored by the community where they could park that truck and get much more traffic.

    35. Re:Two-Sided by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      Because without someone checking on the how the food is prepared and stored is a recipe for food poisoning.

      Yeah, because regulated Restaurants NEVER have issues (Chipotle)

      By applying for a license and submitting to inspection we dramatically minimize that risk. This is a good thing.

      No you don't. You just add bureaucracy to the mess. You know what I see, I see new requirements going up all the time, now, every Food Preparation location has a sign hanging in the windows saying "A Rating", indicating that it has passed recent (depending on definition) inspection, not how the food is being prepared that day (cough cough, sneeze and ooze). And since everyone has an A rating, that means they are all equally awesome. Nobody ever posts a "C", and I doubt every establishment is equal. So the score is ... meaningless bureaucratic bullshit.

      What I'm seeing in my area are bunches of food trucks (over several blocks) -- which are putting local restaurants out of business. This isn't necessarily bad as the trucks are licensed, clean and inspected. It's just a 'shift' which is to be expected when someone finds a way to do something cheaper.

      Yeah, because they don't have to pay rent or clean a full restaurant, just the truck and find a nice place to park it. I am sure it costs a boat load less to do that. Tacos are cheap as it is, and this just makes it cheaper.

      However, cutting out "rent" as part of one's overhead is a LOT different that cutting out proper cleaning procedures and storage procedures for perishables. The former saves a business owner money as does the latter -- but not at the expense of risking their customers health.

      Yeah I know a restaurant that got A rating, still had a food poisoning outbreak (Chipotle) . Explain to me how regulations and licensing prevented that? (hint, it didn't) Further, the public backlash against them was worse than anything the government could actually do. There is always risk, and regulations do not remove it, and often cost more (collectively) than the things it supposedly prevents.

      IMHO that "A" rating that everyone gets, is misleading at best. It is like all those other warning labels that nobody ever bothers reading anymore, since they are everywhere.

      Here is my take (from http://www.washingtontimes.com...)

      These warning labels are everywhere in California. You can’t go to a grocery store, an airport or a gas station without being warned you might get cancer. But that doesn’t mean lacing up your sneakers is going to give you cancer — it just means that the bar for earning a label is so low that the businesses selling these products have to warn you of even the tiniest theoretical risk of health problems or else they’ll be slapped with a lawsuit.

      At some point, the "regulation" designed to keep you safe, actually endangers you, because you ignore or trust them too much.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    36. Re:Two-Sided by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      Why in the hell would I want to run something, for which I have no respect? Nothing disrespects an individual more than some statist / authoritarian / collectivist system, your nonsense is too transparent.

    37. Re:Two-Sided by bughunter · · Score: 1

      This is why we suck as a people

      You have it backwards. We suck as a people is why we need regulation. Your constant rants against the tyranny of regulations is based on the libertarian fantasy of self-regulating markets operated by honest actors. But this premise is false.

      It should be no surprise that honest actors are rare, and most people will lie, cheat, steal and horde given the opportunity. And some are VERY good at it. And those are usually the ones complaining about the rules intended to keep them honest.

      --
      I can see the fnords!
    38. Re:Two-Sided by Jhon · · Score: 1

      "Yeah, because regulated Restaurants NEVER have issues (Chipotle)"

      You appear to respond to posts but don't actually read to what you are responding.

      Example: You claim that I said regulated restaurants NEVER have issues -- and provided an obvious and recent example that proves my claim (which never made) is false. Cool, if fake win for you.

      What I did say is: "By applying for a license and submitting to inspection we dramatically minimize that risk"

      It, in fact, does do that.

      By saying there are instances where a regulated restaurant inappropriately prepared food proves that the regulation isn't necessary is such an amazing fallacy that surprises me that someone's neurons could fire in way to produce that thought.

      "At some point, the "regulation" designed to keep you safe, actually endangers you, because you ignore or trust them too much."

      Just... wow. So, the answer is to let anyone sell and store food any way they want, right? Good idea.

      Now... lets put on our reality glasses. There were what? 50 something cases with Cipotle -- to the point that it reached a national hysteria? How many deaths? Zero?

      Pick up almost any news paper from the past. Say early 1900s. You'll find weekly articles about food poisoning outbreaks many with numerous deaths. Any local news papers from any largish town in the US. Now, most food poising is individuals or families from poorly prep'd or stored meals at HOME. Chipotle was in the news BECAUSE it's the odd ball -- and not a valid argument that regulation is useless.

      Geez.

    39. Re:Two-Sided by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      Man cannot rule himself, what makes you think he can rule over others?

      Power Corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

      When you control a mans ability to earn a living, you've created a slave.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    40. Re:Two-Sided by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      we dramatically minimize that risk"

      Facts not in evidence. You're assuming these to be true, without any proof. Chipotle is a great example of doing everything right (more or less) and still getting it wrong. And you're arguing Security in exchange for Liberty. I object to both these.

      It, in fact, does do that.

      It in fact, does no such thing. Licensing and regulations do NOT improve anything. Changes to actual processes do that, and those do NOT require licensing and or regulations. And I wonder how many people got sick drinking lemonade from a neighborhood stand, which is now out of business because of licensing and regulations we MUST enforce. I mean after all, someone MIGHT get sick (Odwalla poisoning not withstanding)

      let anyone sell and store food any way they want

      I'm not sure what the objection is. It is people like you who prevent "raw" milk products to be sold, even to people who want it, because You know better than they do. It is people like you who want the FDA to tell walnut growers that they cannot claim factual information because it makes walnuts into "drugs", and only the FDA can do that (never mind they suck at protecting people from actual bad drugs)

      My point is, regulation does nothing but give people false sense of security.

      You'll find weekly articles about food poisoning outbreaks many with numerous deaths.

      I am not denying that. Unsanitary conditions exist, and knoweldge and understanding of sanitary conditions doesn't require a permit and a license from government, and government doesn't actually stop that shit. Take a look around, every restaurant has an "A" rating by the"health inspector". You're saying these are all exactly "equal and best" sanitary conditions in every restaurant? This is, indeed the false sense of security I'm railing against. And you feel good when you see "A" and go in and eat, even though the guy down the street has better conditions in the kitchen, you think they are equal because ... they both say "A" in the window.

      Now, most food poising is individuals or families from poorly prep'd or stored meals at HOME

      Hey, don't give the government any ideas, they might just come into our homes and make sure they are inspected and we might need to get a license to cook our own food. Because government always knows best and after all, if it is good for Restaurants it is good for everyone!

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    41. Re:Two-Sided by gfxguy · · Score: 1

      I already admitted people make the rules are often the worst abusers, but we go for lemonade stand analogy it's entirely different - you don't set up a lemonade stand in your neighbors yard. That's the problem... when people can't keep themselves from doing stuff like that, that's when you create rules, and the rules are created because people can't restrain themselves.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    42. Re:Two-Sided by narcc · · Score: 1

      Let's pretend that what you're saying is actually true. (I have serious doubts, but will put them aside.)

      On that assumption, you fail to mention that you are both able-bodied, of average intelligence, and have no one else depending on you for support. You know this already, but many homeless are not mentally competent, able-bodied, or even only responsible for their own well-being.

      You've decided that because "you" both placed yourself in a poor situation, of your own choosing, while being mentally competent, able bodied, and without dependents that everyone else in a similar situation are there because they've placed themselves in such a situation and that they remain their because they're unmotivated.

      You're disgusting.

    43. Re:Two-Sided by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      First, it's "mechanic's lien", not lean. Second, there was no mechanical work done on the car, so no you don't have a mechanic's lien. You can be charged for theft, the same as if someone put their briefcase down in your driveway and saw the bus and ran off, leaving it behind. You can't just dispose of it the way you want - you have to turn it in. Even if it's a bundle of $100s, you can't just do what you want.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    44. Re:Two-Sided by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Yeah, try that attitude at the tow lot. See how well it works for you. As soon as they hook it up, they have a mechanics lien, having invested work in the vehicle (fuck spelling though).

      If the owner thinks that the car was towed illegally they can sue whoever called in the tow order. They will lose if the car came from someones private property. In a public accommodation (lot) they require a tow notice, where again, they will lose.

      This isn't the first time some ass decided to plunk a vehicle down somewhere and say 'fuck you'. It's all well trodden law. As is the original case of a pirate fruit stand on private property.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    45. Re:Two-Sided by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      They have to return the vehicle and then sue for the fee if the owner refuses to pay on the spot. They cannot keep the vehicle, and it's not worth the time to sue. Also, if the owner arrives before they've actually towed the vehicle, they cannot charge the full price of the towing, because they didn't perform all the "work."

      Look it up. Most people don't know their rights, and just cave in.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    46. Re:Two-Sided by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I have no idea about "most cases", but where I live we don't even legally own to the sidewalk. That isn't true where you live, but I don't know which of us is more typical.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    47. Re:Two-Sided by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Last time this was a real problem, the police officer showed up pretty fast and was very helpful. (The idiot parked in my driveway turned out to be sitting on overdue parking tickets, so he got taken to the police station after moving his car.)

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    48. Re:Two-Sided by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      You sure your deed doesn't show the middle of the street? The state or municipalities have a right of way 8 feet from the center of the road here for two lanes and 8 feet from the center of the closest lane if more than two.

    49. Re:Two-Sided by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I had a surveyor come in once and find out exactly where my property ends. It doesn't extend all the way to the sidewalk. It isn't a matter of right-of-way. The front meter or so of my front lawn isn't mine.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  5. Consider the source... by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...Invoca is a software company based in Santa Barbara, California that develops a Software as a Service platform for marketers...

    Yeah, so, to guy is pretty much an asshat anyway.

    --
    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    1. Re:Consider the source... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

      He probably even resents attempts to restrict the scope and intrusiveness of marketing, so long as it can afford a suit and a few VC rounds... A marketing flack is about the least appropriate person to be complaining about someone's intrusive advertising.

    2. Re:Consider the source... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You mean he's fine with "disrupting," so long as he's the one doing it.

    3. Re:Consider the source... by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Well, on the bright side, should for some reason the backlash cause his business to fail, you can at least say "...and nothing of value was lost".

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  6. Zoning laws are bad? by GLMDesigns · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So, are you saying that zoning laws are bad. Or are you saying that poor people can ignore them because they're poor? Can I, a-non-poor-but-not-rich-person, also ignore zoning and commerce laws at my discretion?

    --
    If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
    Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    1. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Dude this is the internet, if you are doing anything and you are white and/or successful, you are at fault. Doesnt matter the subject, just know its your fault. Everyone is allowed to break the law except successful white people.

    2. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by rbrander · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, this isn't about zoning laws.

      It's about America not being a computer program where all subroutines relate to each other by passing money as the only call parameter; it's a community of human beings that relate to each other on more complex levels than money most of the time.

      It's about a guy seeing a phenomenon driven by poverty - you think they're breaking the law to be radical teen rebels or something? They're desperate. So he sees this phenomenon driven by poverty and his sole concern is himself and his comfort...in this case, his psychological comfort of knowing they aren't there...please note he wasn't complaining about noise or interference with his activities; he just hated the existence of poor people on his block.

      And that's STILL absolutely OK, free country, he can have that opinion - hey, they're breaking the law and he's in the right to complain. The problem is that he's a CEO of a corporation, very much a representative of it, not just a private citizen. So he's basically saying, in the first person, PLURAL:

      "In my company, we care only for ourselves and will use very ugly, unsociable bullying against those weaker than ourselves if they inconvenience us. Now please do business with us".

      This is a news story not because he's an unpleasant neighbour and bad citizen, it's because he's a stupid CEO who just cost his company serious coin for no good reason at all.

    3. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1, Troll

      Or are you saying that poor people can ignore them because they're poor?

      Or should a rich person deny public access to a public beach because they're rich?

      http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2016/04/27/trial-ordered-over-public-access-to-vinod-khoslas-martins-beach/

    4. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by msauve · · Score: 1

      Well, the current zoning laws were create by and for the rich. Before it was Silicon Valley, it was the Valley of Heartâ(TM)s Delight, because of the number of fruit and vegetable growers and sellers. I'd consider them "grandfathered" in.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    5. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by KalvinB · · Score: 2

      It's pretty ridiculous that I as a software developer have virtually unlimited income potential working out of a $600 a month apartment, but other people have to struggle because zoning laws force them away from potential customers and force them to pay for a place to live and a place to work.

      And their customers are forced to travel miles just to go buy simple things that they're neighbors could have more easily sold them.

      I like to see people out looking to make an honest dollar.

      The government is run by idiots. More people should ignore them in their pursuit of an honest living.

    6. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They're saying the latter - that being low income is what matters. You're supposed to call the police about a zoning violation, and they may choose to do something about it... Which they won't. That's why we support corrupt mayors who appoint corrupt police chiefs - because they enforce the values we don't want to admit in public.

    7. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by shaitand · · Score: 1

      Even if this were about zoning laws it is perfectly valid to account for scale. Individuals can and do typically ignoring zoning laws with regard to their home businesses, so much so that many communities have taken to dual zoning allowing exactly that.

      You can't simply ignore the hypocrisy here. These are obviously people who are trying to earn their way and they aren't hurting anyone with their actions. Zoning is no more a factor here than it is for a door-to-door salesperson.

    8. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      The law is there to regulate people's conduct when there is no other way to get them to co-exist peacefully. Sad commentary that we have so many laws that are applied unequally based on skin color or economic disadvantage or even that they "dressed like a hoodlum" or "looked like a homeless person."

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    9. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by scubamage · · Score: 1

      Many states don't actually require zoning for farm stands, especially in highly agrarian states such as California. So your point may be moot. It depends more often on cottage food laws, and liability insurance requirements than it does on zoning.

    10. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 1

      I don't think there is great argument about zoning laws. A simple call to the police would have the problem resolved quickly. If he felt the need to deal with the problem at all.

      The issue is his attitude and threats.

    11. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by Jason+Levine · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If they were breaking zoning laws and he was complaining about that, I don't think there would be as much outrage. He really crossed a line when he said it would be perfectly acceptable for him, personally, to harass the vendor or even destroy their produce until they left. If someone is breaking laws, you get the police to intervene. That's what they're paid for. This guy seems of the opinion that he can personally intervene even to the point of destroying private property and it's ok because he's rich and they're not. (He probably views the worst case scenario as: Throw some lawyers at the upset poor person so they either shut up or wind up losing what little they have.)

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    12. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by dadelbunts · · Score: 1

      white men dont get death threats for everything they do online? Who is Peter Molyneux?

    13. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by Lead+Butthead · · Score: 1

      The government is run by idiots. More people should ignore them in their pursuit of an honest living.

      No, the government are run by people who knows EXACTLY what THEY want for themselves.

      --
      ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
    14. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by fbobraga · · Score: 1

      Oh boy...

    15. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by gfxguy · · Score: 1

      We're discussing one right now, genius.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    16. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      I can WALK to the nearest grocery store and I live in a "bedroom community" outer ring suburb. You are trying to sell a false narrative. There is no great conspiracy to keep merchants and customers separated from each other.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    17. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by gfxguy · · Score: 1

      What does that have to do with this story? Oh, right... nothing at all.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    18. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Excuse me?

      Post one, just one, sensible, level headed reply to one of the batshit insane feminist demands (not even talking about anything coming close to Men's Rights bull, just normal, sane stuff) and prepare for impact.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    19. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by gfxguy · · Score: 1

      So you think "unauthorized" vendors aren't hurting "authorized" vendors who are following the law?

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    20. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by Strider- · · Score: 1

      Or should a rich person deny public access to a public beach because they're rich?

      This is why I'm glad to live in a country where no private individual can own the land below the maximum normal extent of water. For ocean beaches, this means that all people have access to the beach below the high-high tide mark, unless there is an explicit foreshore lease for something like a port or Navy base.

      --
      ...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
    21. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      Fair enough. His attitude was reprehensible (at least as put forth in the blurb). We don't know if there was anything else involved in the story.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    22. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      He doesn't own the beach below the high tide line. Long settled law.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    23. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by shaitand · · Score: 1

      No, I don't think the guy standing by the road with a bag of oranges is hurting anyone beyond the manner of minor annoyance. A grocery store likely accidentally throws away more good fruit than one of those people will peddle in their best month in a single day.

    24. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      Why do we need authorization (authoritarian government) for venders to sell their goods?

      Have we really got to the point where our first inclination is that Government Needs to be involved in EVERY aspect of our lives?

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    25. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      What does that have to do with this story? Oh, right... nothing at all.

      Slashdot exists to keep me amuse while I'm waiting for a script to finish running. Thank you for your participation.

    26. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by sehlat · · Score: 1

      So, are you saying that zoning laws are bad. Or are you saying that poor people can ignore them because they're poor? Can I, a-non-poor-but-not-rich-person, also ignore zoning and commerce laws at my discretion?

      In its majestic equality, the law forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal loaves of bread.

              Anatole France: Le Lys Rouge [The Red Lily] (1894), ch. 7

    27. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by gfxguy · · Score: 1

      Sadly, we do need "authorization" if we don't have the common sense or common courtesy to not be dicks and set up not a fruit stand, but a "farmer's market" in front of someone else's private residence (see my other response to you).

      I know I'm generally in agreement with you - I generally have very libertarian ideals... I used to muse that the problem with liberals is they believe that, since they are reasonable people, then everybody can be reasoned with; but now I realize that libertarians have the same problem - I agree we shouldn't NEED laws to stop people from ruining other people's quality of life. Ideally, someone setting up a Farmer's Market goes to a public park or something, and maybe we should allow that. But they don't... they set up in front of other established businesses, they set up, in this case, in front of people's private residences... I believe in libertarian ideals, but there are far too many people who simply won't respect others that make such laws required. Even f#@king speed bumps... because some idiots cannot control their behavior, we all have to drive over speed bumps - this case is an extension of that. People can't control themselves, they will take any "easy" path regardless of the effect it has on the people around them... so if you want to maintain a quality of life, you need regulations. It's folly to think people will comply with what should be common sense and common courtesy - they won't, and they reduce the quality of life for everyone around them.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    28. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by gfxguy · · Score: 1

      Fair enough.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    29. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by erapert · · Score: 1

      It's about America not being a computer program where all subroutines relate to each other by passing money as the only call parameter; it's a community of human beings that relate to each other on more complex levels than money most of the time.

      OK... human beings that relate to each other on more complex levels than money, eh?

      This is a news story not because he's an unpleasant neighbour and bad citizen, it's because he's a stupid CEO who just cost his company serious coin for no good reason at all.

      The left is supposed to be the humanitarians and oh-so-compassionate but I've noticed that all they ever talk about is how much money someone else has.

      I've heard of this thing called the Golden Rule... How would you like it if someone just set up a fruit stand right in front of your house?
      And then if you complain about it at all you'll be demonized and your life threatened; would you like that?
      Meanwhile the fruit stand proprietor isn't even supposed to be doing what he's doing in the first place; see, whitey, only you have to play by the rules.
      How would you like it if you worked hard, started your own company, and became successful... and then were demonized as though you had done something heinous to all of humanity simply by having earned more money than most?

    30. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      True. Now are you saying that the poor can ignore said laws? In which case why have them in the first place? That sounds like a rabid libertarian, anarcho-capitalist argument to me.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    31. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      I'm sure it's a lovely little beach and from the article the prior owners made their private beach accessible to the public because they also built a convenience store and bathrooms.

      It's a public beach from the tide line to the water. Settled as someone else pointed out. For decades there has always been a trail to the beach, as allowed by previous owners. Rich owner decides to shutdown the trail, demands outrageous compensation when the government tried to buy the right of way, and been in lawsuits ever since then. I think he even rejected an offer by someone else to buy the house and then jacked up the price on his counteroffer. The rich guy has proven himself to be a public prick.

      It is a shame some people want to continue to errode away our property rights.

      It's a shame when some people forget that they're members of a larger society.

    32. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by sehlat · · Score: 1

      No. Merely pointing out that the menu has two options.

      1. Justice and equity.

      2. A legal system owned by the rich and powerful.

      Pick one.

    33. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by Ichijo · · Score: 1

      If zoning laws are good, then why can't I build a house in an industrial zone? Is it because the factory next door is afraid that my crying baby will disrupt production? Or is the government just trying to protect me from making a bad decision? Do we really want to outlaw any behavior we think people don't want to do?

      And if zoning laws are good, then why do they habitually force bars to provide abundant, free parking for their drinking customers and thereby induce drunk driving?

      And if zoning laws are good, then why do they segregate the rich from the poor and thereby restrict social mobility and perpetuate the cycle of poverty?

      --
      Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    34. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by Kohath · · Score: 1

      No, the ethic is: bullying is bad. Unless the government is doing the bullying. Then it's good. So all this guy needs to do is donate to the right campaign and have his local government official get the cops to bully this guy. Then he's the most ethical person in the world. Because government!

    35. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      I chose justice and equity. But not equality of outcome nor distribution of wealth.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    36. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      Agree with that point completely. Was the guy an ass? Yes. But he has a point. You can't start any business where ever you want right?

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    37. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by sjames · · Score: 1

      Just to add a dash of hypocracy, they are in marketing. Apparently only rich people are allowed to intrusively shove their message in people's faces to make a living.

    38. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      I'm not a proponent of much of what passes as zoning (or any other law) but if we have them it should apply to all.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    39. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by sjames · · Score: 2

      Your zoning may vary. A huge segment of the population must drive to the nearest store.

    40. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by Ichijo · · Score: 1

      You're saying that if something is illegal, it is automatically morally wrong. I disagree 150%.

      --
      Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    41. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      A huge segment of the population wouldn't walk a mile to save their mother's life.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    42. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by shaitand · · Score: 1

      If they are setting up on someone's private property and asked to leave that is criminal trespass and requires nothing but a simple call to the police to resolve. Although if they make enough money businesses in the US consider it perfectly ethical to pay the fines and continue trespassing.

      If however they are on public property and you are for some reason annoyed by that, tough luck. I remember finding that out the first time I lived somewhere that people would commonly park in front of my home. In front of your house is not your house or property and you have no rights to it, not even the part the city requires you to pay the upkeep for.

      As a younger boy I'd go camping with my grandfather. He didn't believe in state and national parks with concrete camping and people on top of each other with nothing but a small screen of trees between creating the illusion you are actually in nature. We'd take a boat down river and pick a spot. The state automatically owned all land within X number of feet of all rivers and streams. This was actually so they could legally regulate it. As a rule grandpa had talked to someone, their father before them, or something of the sort for the private property in most cases at some point over the years out of courtesy and we'd disturb things as little as possible because we ourselves wanted to enjoy these sites and didn't want to ruin them. But the reality is we were on public property and entitled to be there whether the private property owners nearby liked it or not.

    43. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by JustSomeProgrammer · · Score: 1

      As someone who actually *does* have a fruit stand vendor set up in front of his house every day let me tell you it is kindof awesome. His fruit is actually fresher than the grocery stores' quite frequently and his price point is comparable and I don't have to go nearly as far to get good fruit. Not to mention that his variety is actually better. He also recognizes me and will wish me a good day every day. I'd be sad if someone chased him away.

    44. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by Ichijo · · Score: 1

      Please continue to list examples of specific zoning ordinances you disagree with, in your argument that we get rid of all zoning ordinances. When you're done, I'll list some examples of specific people I disagree with, in my argument that we get rid of all people.

      Your argument goes like this: "We have a problem that needs to be fixed. Zoning laws can fix the problem. Therefore, we need zoning laws."

      That kind of logic is an example of the Politician's syllogism.

      --
      Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    45. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      No. I'm not saying that at all. I think drug and gambling and prostitution laws should be eliminated. This doesn't mean I think that prostitution (for example) is morally acceptable. I don't.

      I am pointing out the hypocrisy in wanting zoning laws to protect society from "x" and then selectively not enforcing it because a poor person is breaking the law.

      NYC prohibits people from cooking and selling food without being licensed by the city. I would like to see much of this changed to allow people to sell "unregulated" tacos or whatever on the side of the road. What I don't what to see is the city enforce the laws for some people (a pizza store) and not enforce the law on someone else ( an old lady selling tostados). The law should apply to everyone. Else change the law.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    46. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by sjames · · Score: 1

      Even more would have to walk well more than a mile to get to the store.

    47. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by pla · · Score: 1

      Here you go!

      Oh, waitasec...

    48. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by EndlessNameless · · Score: 1

      I as a software developer have virtually unlimited income potential working out of a $600 a month apartment

      Which is fine by me, if I were your neighbor, because your development causes me to experience no:

      1. Loud or disruptive noises
      2. Unpleasant odors
      3. Measurable health risks
      4. Traffic congestion
      5. Crowding / foot traffic
      6. Loss of privacy

      Any business that causes those things---and most cause more than one---can and should take place a good distance from my residence.

      I am perfectly willing to choose a residence away from those things, but only zoning laws can ensure that such residential properties remain pleasant places to reside in.

      --

      ---
      According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
    49. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by ortholattice · · Score: 1

      I've heard of this thing called the Golden Rule... How would you like it if someone just set up a fruit stand right in front of your house?

      Unless you mean "he who has the gold makes the rules," the Golden Rule is to imagine your situation swapped with the other person...

      Never mind, I don't think someone who gets upset by an impoverished fruit vendor in front of their mansion could grasp the concept.

    50. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by EndlessNameless · · Score: 1

      If however they are on public property and you are for some reason annoyed by that, tough luck.

      Not all public property is available to be used for any reason by anyone.

      We have public parks, historical sites, stadiums, schools, etc., and the vendors would be kicked out of all of those places too.

      If the sidewalk and roadside are not designed to accommodate vendor stalls, then it makes perfect sense to prohibit vendors from occupying those spaces. Sure, they can travel on the pavement like anyone else---so long as they keep moving instead of becoming an obstacle.

      I like the idea of a public square where anyone can conduct business openly and freely, but people shouldn't be setting up shop where the land is dedicated to another purpose.

      --

      ---
      According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
    51. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by shaitand · · Score: 1

      That's all fine and dandy if the city cares to do so because some lady is holding a bag of fruit beside the road hoping you'll buy a piece so that her family can shelter from the rain. All public property should allow equal access to everyone and provide no priority access based on payment or the amount of payment.

      So long as food trucks are allowed to sell from the roadside there is no valid reason to prohibit the poor from doing so and if there are permits to be had the fees, as all fees required by government, should be paid by tax dollars. A food truck that can afford to pay a $200 fee should not be given priority over an individual who cannot on public property. You aren't 200x more entitled to use public property because you have 200x more to spend on permit/filing fees. If nobody is allowed to use the space so be it although someone attempting to work to care for their family certainly is making better use of the roadside than someone parking a car.

      None of that has any relevance to a private home owner who happens to be near the public space in question though.

    52. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by erapert · · Score: 1

      Then don't chase him away. It sounds like you're in a mutually beneficial relationship with the vendor who sets up in front of your house-- that's great!

      Personally I'm ambivalent at the moment-- I don't even have a house.

      But not everyone wants a fruit stand in front of their house.

    53. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by narcc · · Score: 1

      How would you like it if someone just set up a fruit stand right in front of your house?

      I'd feel confused, as it would be a terrible place for a fruit stand. As they'd be on my property, I'd ask them to move. If they refused that perfectly reasonable request, I'd call the police and have them handle the situation from that point forward.

      If they were on my neighbors property, I'd still feel confused as it's also a terrible place for a fruit stand. As it would be very close, I'd probably buy some fruit if their prices were reasonable and I wanted some fruit.

      In neither case would I threaten violence, internet tough-guy style, against them.

      I've heard of this thing called the Golden Rule...

      The Golden Rule is treat others as you would like to be treated. It's a tool by which you can make moral decisions regarding your behavior toward others. It's not a bludgeon to use against someone who behaves in a way which you personally disapprove. You can't invoke the golden rule here any more that you could, say, against someone who wears tee shirts instead of polo shirts while shopping. By your reasoning, you could say something ridiculous like "How would you like it if someone was just walking around dressed like a bum while you were trying to shop? Haven't they heard of the golden rule?" It doesn't make any sense.

      And then if you complain about it at all you'll be demonized and your life threatened; would you like that?

      The only person threatening violence here is the CEO. He's being demonized because he behaved in a way that we, collectively, find detestable. Had his threatening rant been socially acceptable, he'd be lauded as a hero, not afraid to speak out against the tyranny of the small-time fruit sellers.

      Meanwhile the fruit stand proprietor isn't even supposed to be doing what he's doing in the first place

      This is still unknown. If the fruit vendor was actually violating any local laws then the CEO could have simply called the police and had the scofflaws removed. That he did not seems to indicate to me that the fruit sellers were operating well-within the law. (It's possible that he did call the police, and they were found to be operating their fruit stand legally. Having no other recourse, as the vendors were doing nothing wrong, he ranted about those dirty poor people on the internet.)

      How would you like it if you worked hard, started your own company, and became successful... and then were demonized as though you had done something heinous to all of humanity simply by having earned more money than most?

      He did do something heinous. He's not being demonized because he has money, he's being demonized because he's being an asshole. We don't think it's okay to threaten violence against a harmless fruit vendor (who is likely operating perfectly legally) for any reason. We particularly dislike people threatening violence against the less powerful. Heaven help you if you dehumanize someone lower on the socioeconomic ladder than you.

      Remember those two guys who beat and urinated on a homeless guy last year? Would you say that it was the homeless guy's fault that he was abused and humiliated? It's worse that our fruit vendor, as vagrancy is illegal! How would you like to see some dirty homeless guy when you're on your way back from a baseball game?

      The elder Leader brother, Scott, later told police they attacked him because he was "homeless," "Hispanic," and an "illegal immigrant."

      Of course, the homeless guy in that story wasn't an "illegal immigrant", but he did look a bit Hispanic, so I guess he had it coming right? Did we demonizing these two hard-working, baseball-loving, white guys? (Yes, we did.) Were they demonized because th

    54. Re:Zoning laws are bad? by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      The problem is that he's a CEO of a corporation, very much a representative of it, not just a private citizen

      No, the problem is that a bunch of jerks like you go trolling around on Facebook looking for things to be offended by and using social media to blow them out of any proportion. The problem is that words like "CEO" and "company" cause people like you to become hysterical and fetch the pitchforks. This sort of bullshit should never have been on Slashdot.

      "In my company, we care only for ourselves and will use very ugly, unsociable bullying against those weaker than ourselves

      Which is, of course, exactly what you just did. You're at least as much of an asshole as that guy.

  7. It's a rant by mapkinase · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Should we pay attention to every rant? Even if it's a CEO of a company?

    When I am ranting, I spew all kind of nonsense, threatening to exterminate all life on Earth, etc. Does it mean something beside the fact that I have a temper so hot that I can't restraint myself from public display of expressing it.

    --
    I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
    1. Re:It's a rant by Feral+Nerd · · Score: 1

      Should we pay attention to every rant? Even if it's a CEO of a company?

      When I am ranting, I spew all kind of nonsense, threatening to exterminate all life on Earth, etc. Does it mean something beside the fact that I have a temper so hot that I can't restraint myself from public display of expressing it.

      Galactus, is that you?

    2. Re:It's a rant by Rinikusu · · Score: 1

      Why yes, we must. Because CEOs are our betters in every way, they must hold some divine wisdom that we should be so lucky to be the recipients of should they so deign. /* You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: you are inferior and all the improvements in your conditions which you simply take for granted you owe to the effort of men who are better than you. If this be arrogance, as some of your critics observed, it is still the truth that had to said in the age of the Welfare State. - Ludwig von Mises */

      Because Invoca's call tracking metrics software is exactly what I owe for living life to its fullest, sir.

      --
      If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
    3. Re:It's a rant by rbrander · · Score: 1

      Sure, but he posted on FaceBook. You have the decency to confine your hostile spew to Slashdot, where nobody will read it.

    4. Re:It's a rant by tnk1 · · Score: 1

      Galactus does not rant, puny human. He hungers.

    5. Re:It's a rant by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 1

      It is unclear you have the wherewithal to make good on your threats and get away with them. But Richy McRichFace probably could, unless the authorities were so unusually meticulous that even a really good lawyer couldn't find a way out.

    6. Re:It's a rant by gfxguy · · Score: 1

      I agree, but the "rant" should be addressed on what was actually said in the rant, not making stuff up about hating poor people.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    7. Re:It's a rant by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > That's America. Promote he opinions of the rich simply because they're rich.

      That and pretty much every other home owner in the country.

      There is nothing remotely remarkable about his opinions. The only thing remarkable about the situation is that he is well paid. He might not even be a member of the 1%. Proles are very bad about how to make those distinctions.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    8. Re:It's a rant by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      If you have the means to actually follow up with your rant and exterminate all life on Earth, then yes, yes I think we should listen. And I sure as fuck hope someone would take action, too.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    9. Re:It's a rant by bkr1_2k · · Score: 1

      CEOs are no different than anyone else. Hell, I've been a CEO before. It doesn't mean a damn thing unless it's a very large, publicly traded, company. It looks like this company is gearing up to go public so he should probably shut his yap a bit, but everyone let's go sometimes. Doing it publicly is not ideal, for sure, but was he doing it on a company page or his personal page. Was he really talking about hating the poor or is this all blown out of proportion? Was it really just a publicity stunt since "there's no such thing as bad publicity" (especially when you're about to go public).

      --
      "Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
    10. Re:It's a rant by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Should we pay attention to every rant? Even if it's a CEO of a company?

      No. We should be paying attention to specific rants giving special attention to officials of governments and CEOs. These are the people who impact our lives. If you go on a rant tomorrow nothing will happen. If several rich people rally against the poor in their local area they can really gloriously screw things up.

  8. leadership team by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Funny
    The best part is the description of the leadership team on the company website, which:

    "advertises its leadership team as the 'big brains and small egos creating amazing technology".

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    1. Re:leadership team by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I've heard a lot of names for "it" but I think nobody has ever called it "ego". Egon, maybe.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:leadership team by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Small 'ego'.....small you know what.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    3. Re:leadership team by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Well, a psychopath may _think_ he can do the "small ego" thing, but the truth will come out sooner or later.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    4. Re:leadership team by erapert · · Score: 2

      Small hands?

  9. OFFTOPIC: Slashdot "disable ads" feature is gone by iONiUM · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Did anyone else notice the checkbox to disable ads for high karma users is now gone on Slashdot?

    It stopped working a few weeks ago, and now it's just gone altogether.

  10. Probably a Trump supporter by sinequonon · · Score: 1

    Some people get ahead by acting obnoxious. It takes all types, I suppose.

    --
    -Bob-
  11. Channeling Cro Threadstrong by Zephyn · · Score: 2

    "FRUIT VENDOR!!! Your cart is still in our way! We will give you one more hour to move it from our area. Do not test our patience anymore!"

    1. Re:Channeling Cro Threadstrong by iCEBaLM · · Score: 2

      Does this fruit vendor not value his life? You are running out of time FRUIT VENDOR!!

    2. Re:Channeling Cro Threadstrong by SScorpio · · Score: 1

      They need to spread out like that. It's to have them available for any car chase that might pop up.

    3. Re:Channeling Cro Threadstrong by Rob_Bryerton · · Score: 1

      HA! I crushed an apple, fruit vendor! THIS WILL NOT BE THE LAST!!

    4. Re:Channeling Cro Threadstrong by Hamfist · · Score: 1

      If War is what you want, war is what you shall get, FRUIT VENDOR!

      Your ogre doesn't scare me, FRUIT VENDOR! My Army is on it's way!

      Your days are numbered FRUIT VENDOR! I know about your ogre army!

  12. Psychopathy in the workplace by Derwood5555 · · Score: 1
  13. Re:OFFTOPIC: Slashdot "disable ads" feature is gon by skam240 · · Score: 1

    Nope, I still have the option when I'm logged in.

    --
    I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
  14. Re:OFFTOPIC: Slashdot "disable ads" feature is gon by sims+2 · · Score: 1

    I still have the checkbox on mine.

    --
    Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
  15. Mark Woodward, CEO of software company Invoca by wjcofkc · · Score: 1

    Shortly if not already, I think that will be or is former CEO. With such an egregious comment, quite possibly former company altogether.

    --
    Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
  16. The french had a great solution for rich assholes. by Lumpy · · Score: 1

    I really suggest it is done again to make these snooty asshats act more civilized. All it will take is couple of these rich assholes dangling from a noose on CNN with thousands of angry poor people below them cheering will suddenly make the rest of them across the country find their politeness filters and turn them back on almost instantly.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  17. Public Figure Rant != Your Rant by s.petry · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Look, I fully agree with your generalization because as a normal person I don't have to be concerned with a public image. Once you are in the public spotlight the game changes, and everything you do will be scrutinized because at that level you sell your image. Celebrities, including CEOs are not smarter than other people. Sometimes quite the opposite, because they get caught up in their image and neglect the basics.

    It's like the guy in SF who publicly wanted to be a "thought leader" and then starts bashing homeless people. I have no sympathy for that person, because their goal was to be a public voice. The contract for selling your soul for loads of cash and public spotlights is messy. The next guy should be a whole lot more careful about what they say, and read the contract.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    1. Re:Public Figure Rant != Your Rant by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      Look, I fully agree with your generalization because as a normal person I don't have to be concerned with a public image. Once you are in the public spotlight the game changes, and everything you do will be scrutinized because at that level you sell your image. Celebrities, including CEOs

      CEO is a job title in a certain form of business organization. Being a CEO doesn't make you a "celebrity" or mean that you make a high salary. The real issue here is that "someone posted a rant on Facebook" takes on a political dimension to ignorant people when that someone happens to have a three letter job title. This kind of crap shouldn't be on Slashdot. As for "selling your image", displeasing the social justice thought police will likely get you fired from many positions in Silicon Valley, not just the CxO positions.

  18. Damn by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

    What a prick. How dare those people not be rich like him?

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    1. Re:Damn by gfxguy · · Score: 1

      Not even... they apparently planted themselves in front of somebody else's house, and he said "if that was my house..." and ranted on. There's nothing there about income levels, or poor people ruining the neighborhood, or anything else... it's just another hit piece against a wealthy white guy.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
  19. Sad... by npslider · · Score: 1

    It's a shame to hear things like this. If the fruit vendors are breaking zoning laws, then the proper civil authorities should take action. This does not excuse this type of attitude from him or others like him. I know disdain for the poor extends far beyond the "rich", we are all capable of being cold and uncaring, but not everyone is, thankfully. Even people who just ignore people struggling to make it, while perhaps not speaking ill of them are showing apathy by the lack of even caring.

    We may not be legally obligated to help others, but in my mind it's the right thing to do. I know I could be doing more, and am just as guilty. I'm not an advocate of handouts that breed dependency, but for crying out loud, if a chance to buy someone's product is there, that's hardly a bad thing to consider. But to go out of one's way to not only not care, but intentionally add to one's suffering is just sad. I wonder how he would feel if he were reduced to poverty, how his attitude would change. There is more to life than what one owns, it's the kind of person one is that really matters. Wealthy and poor people alike live but a short time and blow away like dust in the wind, but how we live defines us far more that what we have accumulated.

  20. Re:OFFTOPIC: Slashdot "disable ads" feature is gon by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

    I've still got it, but ticking it does nothing. It's back again on the next reload, unticked.

    Submitting a comment doesn't add it to the discussion, either - it just goes "Working...". Reloading the page shows the comment, though.

    --
    systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
  21. I Would Smash Invoca! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Invoca - Call Tracking & Analytics - 1-888-989-4996
    www.invoca.com
    Invoca provides complete call intelligence. Drive, track and automate inbound calls for better leads, greater marketing insight, and more customers.

    I swear if these low life marketers got anywhere near my home I would go out there and make their life miserable. I would do whatever it took to make them leave. If that meant destroying some of their servers, or standing out there with signs to chase everyone away, Or just making them very uncomfortable, I would do that in a heartbeat.

  22. Re:The french had a great solution for rich asshol by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

    Normally I'd be against what you're suggesting...but sometimes (like today) I'm inclined to endorse it wholeheartedly, and maybe even open a KickStarter to fund such a project. All we need is a snappy name for it...

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
  23. Dick move, but by Verdatum · · Score: 1
    I mean, we all have bad days. We all have those stupid experiences where you get the urge to go somewhere, such as social media, and rage about something. Absolutely, being a public figure, part of his job is to consider the perception of him in society, but, I'd wait for this to be a pattern in the individual person before getting on edge about it.

    It if really was an illegal fruit vendor, then I sorta wish it was easier for them to be legal fruit vendors. I don't know if things are different on the West Coast, but I rather like roadside fruit-stands. And I certainly like them a heck of a lot more than roadside panhandlers.

  24. Re:OFFTOPIC: Slashdot "disable ads" feature is gon by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

    Did anyone else notice the checkbox to disable ads for high karma users is now gone on Slashdot?
    It stopped working a few weeks ago, and now it's just gone altogether.

    I still see it. I don't use it because I use Adblock, but it's still there at the top-right of the page.

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
  25. Re:OFFTOPIC: Slashdot "disable ads" feature is gon by sexconker · · Score: 1

    It's been broken for ages. The new owners said it was something they'd look into. It's still broken. You only get the checkbox if you're "good". On the face it it, this means karma, but Slashdot admins have been known to fuck with users's post score, standing, and account permissions administratively (outside the user-controlled karma system), including the deletion of posts.

  26. Re:OFFTOPIC: Slashdot "disable ads" feature is gon by dywolf · · Score: 1

    Ditto.
    On both Firefox and IE.

    --
    The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
  27. Re:OFFTOPIC: Slashdot "disable ads" feature is gon by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

    I've still got it, but ticking it does nothing. It's back again on the next reload, unticked.

    Submitting a comment doesn't add it to the discussion, either - it just goes "Working...". Reloading the page shows the comment, though.

    I noticed this too...I thought it was just me.

    It just shows "Working" forever, but as you said, reloading the page shows the comment was added.

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
  28. Re:OFFTOPIC: Slashdot "disable ads" feature is gon by shaitand · · Score: 1

    It still doesn't work though.

  29. Proof that many rich folks live on another planet by ErichTheRed · · Score: 2

    Through luck and some hard work, my family and I are fortunate enough to be able to live in "the nice part of town." We're by no means rich; we make decent salaries, but we're not doctors or executives. Therefore we're always waiting for the career-instability shoe to drop and don't "act rich" for the most part. However, because we live in that nice part of town, we have a lot of interactions with people who are doctors, lawyers, executives and so on. A lot of them are nice normal people who just happen to have lots of money. They even let their kids hang out with ours! :-) But, there seems to come a point where someone just has so much that they turn into a clone of this guy. It's a small fraction of the population, but they're quite noticeable.

    I've seen this in my job dealing with executives of large companies as well. Once you get to that level, everything in your life is taken care of for you. Your transportation is arranged for you, meals are handled, house is managed by a staff, family is cared for by a staff, and so on. Anything even slightly out of place like a street vendor is an emergency that needs to be dealt with immediately and harshly. This rant sounds like something a typical "new money" tech CEO would say to one of his friends, but now the world gets to hear how he really feels. It's just further proof that the executive crowd is completely disconnected from reality, and explains things like massive layoffs with no regard to the impact on the business or the individuals.

  30. Let's male bash while we are at it. by LWATCDR · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "They mark only the latest example of a male tech CEO making aggressive, insensitive and tone-deaf remarks about people less fortunate than them."
    Really? Do we have to throw gender into this?

    --
    See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    1. Re:Let's male bash while we are at it. by gfxguy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes - anyone with a brain can read the article posted and see he said nothing about low income people, or disparaging remarks against the poor or minorities - someone set up a stand in front of someone else's house, and his rant was "if that was my house..." And he was right to be annoyed. This was a hit piece against a wealthy white guy, that goes on to bemoan income disparity in tech fields with "low income workers and people of color." Their rant had nothing to do with his rant; he just ended up being a convenient target.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    2. Re:Let's male bash while we are at it. by erapert · · Score: 1

      Are you beginning to see how the propaganda machine works?
      Or maybe it's just me and you've been fully aware for a long time...

  31. MUH PROPERTY VALUE by kheldan · · Score: 1

    One-percenter scumbag. You so worried your multi-million-dollar house will drop a few thousand bucks or something? Or is your problem 'MUH AESTHETICS'? This guy needs to have the shit slapped out of him.

    --
    Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    1. Re:MUH PROPERTY VALUE by avandesande · · Score: 1

      I live in a modest suburban home that I don't even own, I rent. I wouldn't want a fruit vendor in front of my house.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
  32. Why I would never want to live in SF. by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

    It is too expensive and to crazy.
    SF has for a long time encouraged the crazy and now that it is too expensive for normal people much less low income people to live it is become a very unpleasant place to live.
    Time for the tech companies to spread out a bit and find more reasonable places to have facilites.

    --
    See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    1. Re:Why I would never want to live in SF. by Pfhorrest · · Score: 1

      This guy's company is in Santa Barbara, not San Francisco.

      Still, Santa Barbara is yet another place that ordinary people can't afford to live, and I say that as a former resident.

      Then again California in general isn't a place ordinary people can really afford to live, and I say that as a current resident.

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
    2. Re:Why I would never want to live in SF. by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Santa Barbara? One of the few places that make SF seem not that expensive.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    3. Re:Why I would never want to live in SF. by Khyber · · Score: 1

      The company has offices in Santa Barbara, San Francisco, Denver, CO, and another spot.

      You could have at LEAST done the basic research before-hand.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    4. Re:Why I would never want to live in SF. by Pfhorrest · · Score: 1

      "Invoca is a software company based in Santa Barbara, California..." from the first line of the company's Wikipedia page.

      That is basic research.

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
    5. Re:Why I would never want to live in SF. by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Many companies are 'based in Ireland' but are entirely in the USA.

      Try again when your logic can work with the facts of the real world.

      Oh, look, SB has LOWER TAXES than the other places mentioned. I wonder why it's HQ'd there?

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    6. Re:Why I would never want to live in SF. by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Guess you didn't bother looking at their CO offices, which are much, MUCH larger than SF.

      But you keep on talking when I've already done the research and can speak about the subject. You still look like a complete and utter moron.

      Protip: Homeboy isn't a CA resident! :D

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  33. Funny how that works... by zarmanto · · Score: 1

    Streisand... paging Barbara Streisand...

    (I mean, seriously... do people who come into money just abruptly lose sight of all common sense?)

  34. They aren't unregulated/unlicensed by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

    I don't consider them unregulated or unlicensed. I just call them "fruit sharing" companies or "fruit aggregators".

  35. Re:Blame the Statists by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

    If that meant destroying some of their produce, or standing out there with signs to chase everyone away, Or just making them very uncomfortable

    To fight against this sort of bullying, we need the "Stand you ground" [wikipedia.org] laws — with the right to bear arms properly restored...

    Sadly, all this might mean is that Mr. Rich CEO hires a bunch of goons... I mean security professionals to "have an informative chat" with the vendor. (Where they inform the vendor just how much of their produce will be destroyed if they don't relocate immediately.) If the vendor tries anything funny, the security professionals will be armed and will be able to outnumber/overpower the vendor. Even if the vendor manages to fight them off, he'll likely wind up being arrested. In any event, the CEO won't be personally involved, though he could hire lawyers to argue for his security professional s and against the vendor should any conflict arise.

    In other words, adding guns to the mix doesn't equalize this rich vs poor conflict. The poor still get the short end of the stick because the rich can hire more guns than the poor can buy.

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  36. Re:OFFTOPIC: Slashdot "disable ads" feature is gon by Quirkz · · Score: 1

    Yeah. I assumed this was a browser upgrade issue on my end. Glad to know it's the site instead.

  37. Fruit Uber? by Subgenius · · Score: 1

    Wait a second.... Aren't these 'unlicensed fruit vendors' just an earlier version (or perhaps the latest) of Uber or perhaps food trucks? And everyone loves what Uber is doing to the taxi economy, right?

    1) Displace standard selling practices (stores)
    2) Provide goods at strategic locations, mobile
    3) Fill a demand (people are buying fruit, else the carts would not be there)
    4) Allow people to use their own resources to generate an income (fruit vs. cars).

    Lots of hypocrisy in both the CEO's rant and in these Slashdot replies regarding zoning.....

    I would wager that if there was an 'app' to call the fruit vendors, folks would be all over this, handing them truckloads of money......

    --
    Toil is Stupid. Don't be Stupid.
    1. Re:Fruit Uber? by citylivin · · Score: 1

      Where i live, people have farm stands on private property selling fruit in the summer. If you go to the country, people always have eggs and stuff available at thier property edge and they have a lockbox of sort to collect money. Nothing illegal about that. I guess I don't understand "unlicensed fruit vendors". How is it any different than a lemonade stand? At least these people aren't just uselessly begging for change and they are providing a service to people.

      I guess american laws are different? you cant sell fruit without a license there?

      --
      As a potential lottery winner, I totally support tax cuts for the wealthy
    2. Re:Fruit Uber? by Pfhorrest · · Score: 1

      These fruit vendors weren't on their own private property, they were on public property adjacent to someone else's private property.

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
  38. Re:"CEO destroys online brand reputation in 1 rant by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    He's selling SaaS solutions to marketeers. I doubt they give a fuck about how he treats humans, they're used to far worse.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  39. Re:Blame the Statists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The need for a special permission (license) from the government is what makes such vendors especially miserable

    All I see is an entrepreneur pulling himself up by his bootstraps, the way your kind always says he should, while being told by someone who already made it to do it somewhere else

    even those, who apply for and receive such licenses, are in constant fear of having them revoked.

    No they are not.
    Pure nonsense.

    The Executive government can do that at a drop of a hat,

    No they cannot. There's this thing called due process.

    without bothering with the occasionally obstreperous Judiciary

    Still requires due process.

    somehow selling what's yours to willing buyers is not a right in this country, you need permission.

    No you don't need permission to sell what's yours.
    but we aren't talking about personal possessions, we're talking about business, a different category of owned goods than personal possessions.

    And when it comes to businesses, only some are required to obtain business licenses, typically to ensure compliance with safety and health regulations that protect the public. Regulations are typically "common sense" and easy to comply with.

    Though if you prefer countries where it is legal to sell chemically laced or diseased food products to unwary customers because you somehow think "buyer beware" is a valid strategy even though that strategy relies on someone else's (or maybe your) tragic and accidental injury or worse in order for anyone to actually become aware...well then I can same several libertarian paradises* for you.

    Calling a buddy (or a politician, to whom you've donated) in the town-hall to lean on the objectionable vendor to "ask" him to move or have his license not renewed, is how this sort of harassment is normally achieved

    That's called corruption, and it's illegal.

    announcing your plans on Facebook is, actually, refreshingly honest of this guy

    No, just stupid of him.
    Maybe there's a zoning violation, maybe not. Zoning can be used for good or bad.

    To fight against this sort of bullying, we need the Stand you ground laws with the right to bear arms properly restored...

    So your solution to an rich guy's unhinged rant is violence?
    Ah, but that's right, you think a duly empowered police force to enforce laws is tyranny, and much prefer the anarchy of might makes right.
    Again, I can suggest several libertarian paradises* if you like.

    *aka, third world countries that have achieved "failed state" status

  40. Not that simple by fyngyrz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There are some issues here that may apply. Is the vendor blocking traffic? Some placements will generate traffic congestion. That makes the vendor non-harmless. Is the vendor on private property without permission? That's a bad idea all around, not so much because "hey someone is selling stuff" but because it sets a negative precedent about the right to control what one owns. Blocking the sidewalk? That's no good either. The sidewalk seems to me to be something you can reasonably share -- it's public property, which means the vendor has a stake in it as well -- but if you block the sidewalk, you've gone too far. I don't think it's too much to ask that a vendor arrange their business such that the sidewalk and the road both remain traversible without requiring detour or delay.

    I'm no fan of licenses per se, I think they are counter-productive on almost every level I can think of other than as a means of extracting money from the business community (and often that's counter productive as well), but if you're selling food, cooked or otherwise, I *am* a fan of inspection. If you haven't passed a recent inspection for handling, storage, cleanliness and refrigeration / prep as would be considered reasonable practice for whatever it is you are selling, I'd prefer you weren't allowed to sell, and if I can't have that, I'd at LEAST like to know about it so I can avoid your enterprise. Likewise healthcare, sexual services, etc. You should have the right to conduct business, but that should be tempered with the responsibility to do so in a safe and sane manner that takes the health and welfare of your customers into account as much as possible.

    IMHO, most communities go way, way, too far when it comes to who can do what, where. And they do this to create "sanitized" zones where the "undesirables" are prevented from sullying the space they consider to be theirs. I find that attitude generally despicable if the space is public. If the space is private, then it should be 100% up to the owner, not the community, how that space is used. You want to spend a zillion bucks on a big house? Fine. Guy next to you wants to put up a rusty old junker on blocks right next to the property line? Fine. You don't like it? Should have bought more property (and perhaps less house) so your tender little eyes wouldn't have to suffer the indignity of photons you don't like. Some high fences would help too.

    Anyway. It seems to me that the high road almost inevitably consists of giving your fellow human beings some room to exist and hopefully exercise some opportunity to improve their lot. I'm really pretty tired of "me first" explanations for what amounts to casual maltreatment of others. I understand and agree with concerns about private property you own. Beyond the boundaries of your own property, my sympathies for complaints about actions of others that do not directly pick your pocket or break your leg drop off dramatically.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    1. Re:Not that simple by pr0fessor · · Score: 2

      I'm fine with that they just need to clean up for a few months when I'm ready to sell until then I'll enjoy the lower property taxes.

    2. Re:Not that simple by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2

      If I understand correctly, most home owners object to the neighbours putting rusty old junkers up on blocks in the yard not because it hurts their precious feelings but because it hurts their property values

      I had an elderly neighbor complained to me about the dead petunias in my front yard, claiming that it took $50,000 off her home value. Never mind she wasn't selling her house. Some people get extremely obnoxious during a rising real estate market in California.

    3. Re:Not that simple by bughunter · · Score: 1

      For those unfamiliar with California fruit vendors, allow me to describe them.

      Imagine a NYC street hot dog cart, except it's an insulated ice chest instead of a steamer. On top is a plexiglass box with more ice and various peeled fruit on display. Atop this is usually an umbrella for shade.

      You don't buy bulk fruit to take home. You have one choice: the number of servings you want. The vendor cuts up a variety of fruit into bite sized chunks (usually pineapple, coconut, mango, papaya, etc.) gives it a squirt of lime juice and optionally a dash of cayenne. It's served in a plastic bag and eaten with a disposable fork. It usually costs four or five dollars a serving. It's one of my wife's favorite treats.

      Here in LA County, they're not regulated by the police but by the Department of Health - the same folks who inspect restaurants. (The police will politely ignore you if you call them to complain about a fruit vendor. And the Sheriff will rudely ignore you.) And AFAIK they're technically forbidden. Just like the bacon-wrapped hot dog vendors, the only time you see them is after 5pm on Fridays and on weekends when the Health Department inspectors are off duty.

      It's a traditionally Hispanic practice, but you can find them in most parts of town. They generally set up on the verge between the sidewalk and the curb, in well-trafficked areas, usually in mixed-use or commercial zoned areas. I've never seen one on a purely residential street.

      --
      I can see the fnords!
    4. Re:Not that simple by Pfhorrest · · Score: 1

      "Damaging someone's property value" by doing something entirely to your own property is an "injury" only in the same way that "damaging someone's labor value" by your own labor (e.g. by competing with them for business) is an "injury": maybe in some kind of causal sense, but not in any normative sense that should be legally actionable.

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
  41. Illegal vendors are illegal by mveloso · · Score: 1

    If the vendors are illegal, they should just call the police/HOA to get rid of them.

  42. Don't FUCK with my livelyhood, esse by Thud457 · · Score: 1

    Dude, you REALLY don't want to hassle poor independent fruit sellers

    Be a mensch, buy some fruit, and give him a tip on a prime location elsewhere.

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    1. Re:Don't FUCK with my livelyhood, esse by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      Interesting and inspiring story, but over in America no one really gives a fuck about street vendors (unless you are annoyed by them.)

  43. Let Make Him See How it Feels... by JustBoo · · Score: 1

    Wouldn't you just know this guy runs some shitty internet marketing company. http://www.invoca.com/ Had to be that, right.

    So if anyone is using this guys shitty internet marketing firm, please stop, cancel his service and let him feel what it is like to be poor with very few options available to one who is poor. I grew up extremely poor. One simply does not know what it is like through empathy or sympathy. Racist Limousine Liberals disgust me.

    Since this guy also advocates theft (destruction of peoples property) from poor people, I see little reason for any compassion whatsoever. If he wasn't the "lowest form of life on the internet," that is, a marketing skank, I'm sure he'd happily be selling poisoned baby formula in Africa.

    He absolutely deserves everything that is going to be coming his way. I hope the right people make it happen.

  44. Re:Blame the Statists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I am becoming convinced that your posts are nothing more than an elaborate performance art piece meant to physically demonstrate how illegitimate libertarianism is by constantly showcasing it's complete and total lack of validity as a school of thought.

  45. Re:OFFTOPIC: Slashdot "disable ads" feature is gon by Pfhorrest · · Score: 1

    Glad to see it's not just me! This behavior coincided with me installing a new AdBlock in my browser (after a browser upgrade after an OS upgrade no less) and I thought there was some weird interaction between that and the site's scripting.

    --
    -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
    "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
  46. It is a war in San Francisco by cyriustek · · Score: 1

    Both sides of this argument are deeply entrenched.

    1) There are a lot of people in San Francisco that care about the homeless. They are seen as the noble poor, and in San Francisco, the homeless get a real leg up in financial terms. Although this has resulted in more homeless moving into San Francisco, many are just displaced from their dwellings due to the outrageous costs for apartments. One bedroom apartments that are not too terribly nice are going for 3.5k to 4k per month.

    2) Some of the homeless here have no regard for laws. Public urination is everywhere. Get off at the Civic Centre of BART, and you are quickly greeted by a strong waft of urine in the air followed by billowing clouds of marijuana. Walk out of the BART station in the early morning, and you have to be careful to not step on a needle that a junky dropped.

    There is certainly room and a need to help people who are in genuinely difficult situation. Counseling to help addictions and strong policing to enforce current laws are needed. However, taking the law into one's own hands and destroying another person's property as Mr. Woodward says he will, is not the answer.

  47. A non-issue? by twotacocombo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yeah, this guy is talking out his ass, but I'm pretty sure it's because he knows he'll never have to back his words up with actions. Seriously, where do you usually see fruit/ice cream carts? Here in the San Fernando Valley, it's usually around the lower income areas, such as manufacturing districts, public parks, cheaper housing. I've never seen a fruit cart in my lower middle class neighborhood, let alone the richy rich areas. I doubt the 1%ers anywhere would eat off one of those carts anyway, when they can just have their PA go down to Whole Foods and pick up a truck load of whatever. There's just not enough foot traffic or eager customers for the carts in these areas, so they simply have no incentive to be there. This guy is just inventing a scenario where he thinks he sounds tough and can rally his kind against the poors, but would most likely get his ass kicked if he started destroying someones livelyhood.

    1. Re:A non-issue? by dyslexicbunny · · Score: 1

      but would most likely get his ass kicked if he started destroying someones livelihood.

      What's the goal and where do I send my money?

  48. Re:OFFTOPIC: Slashdot "disable ads" feature is gon by sims+2 · · Score: 1

    Maybe I need to start double posting my signature it seems it's not being displayed for some people.

    --
    Disable advertising broken. Minimum threshold broken /. Please fix.

    --
    Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
  49. RIP free media by tom229 · · Score: 1

    Wow, does this summary have an axe to grind or what? It's probably because there's not enough women working for him. And they make less. Fuck I hate this new breed of editorial journalism. RIP free media.

    --
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
  50. Re:OFFTOPIC: Slashdot "disable ads" feature is gon by gweihir · · Score: 1

    I have one right here. Browser incompatibility or filtered off too much?

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  51. Power Corrupts and... by evolutionary · · Score: 1

    this is what happens when people who haven't had to work from "the ground up" get too much money, too much power, and too little humility/wisdom to see what is beyond their nose. California is becoming not only a tech power house, but a breeding round for perhaps the most amoral generation in the history of the United States of America. If he had said, "Let them it cake", I would have at least given him credit for being clever.

    --
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge" - Einstein
  52. Guns help equalize attacker and victim by mi · · Score: 1

    Sadly, all this might mean is that Mr. Rich CEO hires a bunch of goons...

    Sure, but he can always do that. In fact, they can even be armed goons — with licenses to carry, whereas their victim is unlikely to be.

    adding guns to the mix doesn't equalize this rich vs poor conflict

    Well, it will not equalize it completely, but it will reduce the disbalance. You only need 2-3 unarmed goons to overpower an unarmed victim. If you allow both sides to carry, the math changes — you'll now need more than 5, probably closer to 10 goons. And they know, some of them may very well "get it", which raises the stakes even higher.

    And then, of course, the goons can already be armed — so letting the victim defend himself is a net win for equality.

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  53. Re:The french had a great solution for rich asshol by sjames · · Score: 1

    Why do you think "panic rooms" are now fashionable among the rich?

  54. Re:OFFTOPIC: Slashdot "disable ads" feature is gon by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1
    No, it is still there. But I don't use it. If slashdot makes a few cents, by me, that is ok by me. I don't find slashdot ads intrusive.

    Of course, some wag is going to follow up, slashdot itself is a huge slashvertisement ....

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  55. Can I do this too? by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

    Can I make Mark Woodward's life miserable until Invoca leaves the Internet? I don't want him in my virtual neighborhood.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  56. Hippie Story by SmaryJerry · · Score: 1

    First, the title is all wrong. He doesn't bully anyone, he says he would bully someone if blah blah. Second, this is framed as someone powerful against someone weak for no reason. Obviously everyone is inclined to side with the 'weak,' but really one person wants the laws to be followed and another is breaking the laws. Is anyone arguing the laws are wrong? Not really, they are just saying this guy is an asshole for wanting them to be enforced and using aggressive language while saying so. So what.

  57. Re:RTFA: Neighborhood venders... by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

    I have vendors all over my neighorhood and I've not had any of the problems. They push carts down my street, people buy stuff and they move on. And others sell fruit on the corner, they tend to pick a shady corner that isn't someone's yard.

    I'm not saying you haven't had bad a experience. But I hasn't been my experience with unlicensed street vendors.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  58. Re:OFFTOPIC: Slashdot "disable ads" feature is gon by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 1

    I've noticed that whole "waiting" thing too...when it first started, I accidentally double-posted until I realized it was actually posting but the refresh was just jacked.

  59. Re:OFFTOPIC: Slashdot "disable ads" feature is gon by just_another_sean · · Score: 1

    Based on other comments I don't doubt there is something broken about it. But for me, when mine went away I spent some time searching, trying to figure it out. Gave up and lived with it after a few minutes. Surfed /. for a few days in a row and magically it was back. Then I got busy, life and all that, and hadn't been to /. in months. When I finally came back the ads were back. A few days of consistent visits and one day the box was back and checking it removed the ads.

    I chalked it up to a change that basically works like ( good karma + consistent visits = remove ads ). Have no idea if that's right, just the behaviour I observed. I can say, unlike other commenters, that if the box was there and I checked it then it worked and ads were removed. I typically surf /. with Firefox or Seamonkey fwiw.

    --
    Creationist Textbook Stickers Declared Unconstitutional by CowboyNeal
  60. Re: The french had a great solution for rich assho by halivar · · Score: 1

    And they, in turn, fell under the guillotine of the Jacobins. Oh, how they howled. Every revolution eats its own last.

  61. He wouldn't act quite that quickly by Krishnoid · · Score: 1

    Or just making them very uncomfortable, I would do that in a heartbeat.

    By which he means in about a quarter, when he has to produce another earnings report. I think he's confused by how an ostensibly human heart is supposed to sound.

  62. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  63. Property values by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

    If I understand correctly, most home owners object to the neighbours putting rusty old junkers up on blocks in the yard not because it hurts their precious feelings but because it hurts their property values. In that case it definitely does cause financial "injury" to the neighbours. Just sayin'.

    I understand the idea behind this. However, I reject the assertion that because you bought property next to mine, I have the right to say what you do on it unless it directly affects my health and welfare or the physical state of my property -- interference with water flow, something of yours falls onto my land, etc.

    If you decide to live somewhere, the way I see it, I have domain over what I own, and no further. If I want lots of influence, I need to buy buy lots of land. Same thing for noise pollution, etc. Want to get away from it all? See to it that you have an away to get to. Otherwise, insulate and/or buy earplugs. Insulation is highly under-rated. Not only reduces noise, but makes heating and cooling much more efficient.

    As for the value of my property as to related to the adjacency to another's property and their doings thereon, again, if I want to control some bit of land, and even gain income by asserting that land will remain in, or out of, some specific state, then again, I need to own that land.

    And before anyone jumps me about this, yes, I know how it actually works. What I'm describing here is how I think it should work -- and how I actually act towards my neighbors. Because that, at least, I can control. I'm not an asshole about it, either. The grocery store next door has a tight fit getting a semi in for unloading; the bay faces my property across a not-very-wide parking lot. When we fenced in our lot, I cut a pretty good-sized triangle off the corner of the plot in the sense that the fence cut inside that, in order to give the trucks room to maneuver. I didn't ask them if they needed it, I didn't try to sell it to them, I didn't even mention it to them. The manager of the store came over here the day after the fence went up and asked me "why'd you do that?" and I told him "because your trucks obviously needed the room." Just because you have a right to something doesn't mean you have to hold on to it like a little bitch. And strangely enough, for some reason, the store treats us very well indeed.

    Okay, now jump me. :)

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    1. Re:Property values by Pfhorrest · · Score: 1

      I mostly agree with you on the larger principle, but noise pollution isn't in the same category as painting your house an ugly color or not mowing your lawn. The latter affect the content of the light hitting your property, but not the quantity. It would be different if your neighbor, say, shone a flood light over your whole property in the middle of the night, or put on constant laser light shows or something.

      Likewise, if the content of the sounds coming from your neighbor aren't to your liking, but the quantity of sound is nothing out of the ordinary, you have nothing to complain about; but if the quantity of sound coming from your neighbor is excessive, you have every right to complain about that.

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
    2. Re:Property values by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      but if the quantity of sound coming from your neighbor is excessive, you have every right to complain about that.

      I don't think so. I think the only complaining you can do that is reasonable is to beat yourself over the head for not buying more property so you weren't in range of the neighbor's sounds, or that you failed to insulate well enough, etc.

      If you buy (or rent) a house by a highway, you're going to hear cars and trucks and so forth. If you buy (or rent) a house by another person, you're going to hear people and their activities, etc. If you buy (or rent) a house adjacent a runway end, you're going to hear all kinds of aircraft. If you buy (or rent) a house next to a shooting range, you're going to hear guns. If you buy (or rent) a house next to a dog kennel, you're going to hear barking. Etc, etc.

      In every case, I see the answer as either (A), don't do that, or (B) address the problem on your end (hence insulation, earplugs, etc.)

      My outlook says I should regulate myself. Not that I should regulate other people.

      YMMV, obviously. But that's how I see it.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    3. Re:Property values by Pfhorrest · · Score: 1

      How do you feel about the floodlights and laser shows, and how are those different (if they are)?

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
  64. Dumb Rich GUY by JimSadler · · Score: 1

    He can cause grief for the homeless and the like but he should know that many of those folks could care less about going to prison as prison can be better than the life that they have. And some are sort of violent to begin with. We'll see who wins in the end.

  65. Re:OFFTOPIC: Slashdot "disable ads" feature is gon by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 1

    Did anyone else notice the checkbox to disable ads for high karma users is now gone on Slashdot?

    It stopped working a few weeks ago, and now it's just gone altogether.

    Yeah, I noticed that too. I think it's just their cute way of asking us nicely to use AdBlock.

  66. If they burn his house down... by Cyberpunk+Reality · · Score: 1

    then he won't have to see them anymore. They'd be doing him a favor, right?

    --
    Rule 35 of the internet: "If it can be hacked, it will be". - Charles Stross
  67. Re:OFFTOPIC: Slashdot "disable ads" feature is gon by Khyber · · Score: 1

    http://i.imgur.com/llvPrt5.png

    It's there, and it works. It doesn't make you immune to native slashdot ads, just ads coming from off-site.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  68. Re:OFFTOPIC: Slashdot "disable ads" feature is gon by Khyber · · Score: 1

    "You only get the checkbox if you're "good"."

    Wrong. The checkbox came about for those users that participated in a specific /. survey. Our reward was being able to disable ads.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  69. Re:OFFTOPIC: Slashdot "disable ads" feature is gon by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

    Nope, I still have the checkbox.

  70. Re:OFFTOPIC: Slashdot "disable ads" feature is gon by sexconker · · Score: 1

    Wrong.

    As our way of thanking you for your positive contributions to Slashdot, you are eligible to disable advertising.

    It's supposed to be revealed based on karma. I've lost it several times by tanking my karma to terrible.

  71. Invoca is a telephone marketing company by maas15 · · Score: 1

    I really don't think the CEO of a telephone marketing company has any right to consider fruit vendors annoying. Telephone marketing is about as annoying as marketing gets.

  72. Fair Competition by warewolfsmith · · Score: 1

    Why be nasty about it, just set up a bigger stall selling a greater variety of better, fresher, cheaper fruit, problem solved. When you have bankrupted the competition then you can recruit them to sell contraband to your neighbors.

  73. This is why people increasingly are viewing by ToddInSF · · Score: 1

    wealth as some sort of mental illness.

    Hopefully this CEO will take a well deserved bullet to his face soon.

  74. Sociopath by NewYork · · Score: 1

    CEOs are Sociopaths.
    Is it news?

  75. Re:OFFTOPIC: Slashdot "disable ads" feature is gon by Khyber · · Score: 1

    I've tanked my karma multiple times and have NEVER lost it.

    I have the fucking e-mail where it specifies what our reward would be for taking the Slashdot survey.

    You are wrong.

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    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  76. Making light of my position by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

    My answer to temporary light incursion is curtains, generally speaking, as heavy as required. It's an easy problem to solve, and the solution also sources worthy privacy benefits. However, if the laser is powerful enough to do harm, and the beam crosses my property line, much less enters my home, then my feeling is someone needs to be shot, same as with any other innately reckless use of a dangerous instrument.

    I'm pretty unhappy with more general light "pollution" -- I think we lose a great deal when we can't see, photograph, and otherwise explore and appreciate the night sky -- but first, it's not something we can solve easily at this point in time, and second, it's not inherently permanent -- the problem goes completely away the instant the lights go off -- so "pollution" is at least somewhat hyperbolic. I'm particularly sensitive to this as I live where there are dark skies, which we came very close to losing because of the Bakken oil development failing to deal with the gas output of the wells over there in any way other than burning it off. Made a huge amount of light. Lucky for us here, oil prices fell so far that the field's economic case turned negative.

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    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.