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Smartphone Surveillance Tech Used To Target Anti-Abortion Ads At Pregnant Women (rewire.news)

VoiceOfDoom writes: Rewire reports: "Last year, an enterprising advertising executive based in Boston, Massachusetts, had an idea: Instead of using his sophisticated mobile surveillance techniques to figure out which consumers might be interested in buying shoes, cars, or any of the other products typically advertised online, what if he used the same technology to figure out which women were potentially contemplating abortion, and send them ads on behalf of anti-choice organizations?"

Regardless of one's personal stance on the pro-choice/anti-abortion debate, the unfettered use of tracking and ad-targeting technology which makes this kind of application possible is surely a cause for concern. In Europe, Canada and many other parts of the world, the use of a person's data in this way would be illegal thanks to strict privacy laws. Is it time for the U.S. to consider a similar approach to protect its citizens?
Google has been reportedly tracking users on around 80 percent of all 'Top 1 Million' domains. Facebook is doing something similar. A recent report shows that Facebook uses smartphone microphones to identify the things users are listening to or watching based on the music and TV shows its able to identify. Facebook says the feature must be turned on, and that "it's only active when you're writing a status update."

260 comments

  1. Amerian values by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "Is it time for the U.S. to consider a similar approach to protect its citizens?"

    It's long overdue. But here in the US, corporations with more money than they know what to do with are WAY more important.

    1. Re:Amerian values by PPH · · Score: 2

      But here in the US, corporations....

      "You will do as you are told. Until the rights to you are sold."
      - F. Zappa

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  2. Well.... by johnsmithperson123 · · Score: 0

    You have a choice between making such rules and fighting it out, debating where the internet actually is etc. or just giving up and assuming people don't care. I suspect people who do care already have remedied the problem almost all the time.

  3. So what by NotInHere · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Telling women to not do abortions is nothing bad IMO. Its what ads are about: telling us to do different stuff. Its what made google rich.

    What IS bad though is to forbid abortions, because this will just lead to women who want to abort their child to use more dangerous methods.

    1. Re:So what by mark-t · · Score: 5, Interesting

      So unless a company telling you to go and get a new product is willing to buy it for you, it's none of their business as well?

      The entire point of ads is about making suggestions that company thinks you ought to do. While it certainly is none of their business what you actually end up doing, by the very definition of "advertising", it *IS* their business to tell you what they think you should do.

    2. Re:So what by NotInHere · · Score: 1

      It is ultimately the choice of the woman, and that's how it should be. But why is trying to give her guidance something bad? I mean its the same if greenpeace phones to the CEO of shell and tells them to stop destroying the environment, or some animal group writing a letter to the CEO of McDonalds asking them to stop killing the animals. It may be weird and may not reach its goal but why forbid them to do it?

    3. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is ultimately the choice of the woman, and that's how it should be. But why is trying to give her guidance something bad? I mean its the same if greenpeace phones to the CEO of shell and tells them to stop destroying the environment, or some animal group writing a letter to the CEO of McDonalds asking them to stop killing the animals. It may be weird and may not reach its goal but why forbid them to do it?

      If a woman in that situation reaches out to someone else, that person should offer her guidance, absolutely. Spying on her and then trying to tell her what to do is sleazy and wrong. You don't know her. You don't know her situation. It's none of your business unless she makes it your business.

    4. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe they should consider not being so degenerate in the first place?

    5. Re:So what by NotInHere · · Score: 1

      Spying on her and then trying to tell her what to do is sleazy and wrong.

      There is no more spying involved than there is with any of us. The moment she installs google apps on her smartphone she agrees to be spied upon by google (its in the TOS), and google in turn enables people to run targeted ads for people in special situations. She didn't mind when she bought the phone, did she? And if she minded, there are free and open source alternatives without any gapps.

      You don't know her. You don't know her situation.

      They know that she is contemplating abortion. That's more than maybe her parents know.

      Does a sign on a bridge "please don't jump, there is help, call number xxx" know the situation? It should be there, shouldn't it?

    6. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There is no more spying involved than there is with any of us.

      Well that makes it ok.

      The moment she installs google apps on her smartphone she agrees to be spied upon by google (its in the TOS), and google in turn enables people to run targeted ads for people in special situations. She didn't mind when she bought the phone, did she? And if she minded, there are free and open source alternatives without any gapps.

      Do you honestly believe that people actually read that? Most people don't have 30 hours to read all of the terms and conditions for their apps. There was just a story about this.

      Does a sign on a bridge "please don't jump, there is help, call number xxx" know the situation? It should be there, shouldn't it?

      Posting a sign for all to see is one thing. Spying on someone so you can shove your sign in their face is another thing entirely. Just because Google does this does not make it ok. Just because you're ok with Google doing this to you does not mean that everyone else is ok with it.

    7. Re: So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *raising hand* have adopted three and would adopt more.

      Anytime that's brought up (gently and civilly I might add) to someone contemplating abortion, I get screamed at. Why is that?

    8. Re:So what by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Well that makes it ok.

      Yes, actually it does... or at least no more wrong than advertisements in general already are. Suggesting that it should only be acceptable to advertise anti-abortion options when they are willing to adopt the child is approximately equivalent to suggesting that *ANY* commercial advertiser of a product should also be giving away that product for free. In the end, it's just an ad...while it's not the advertiser's business what you actually do after seeing the ad, it actually *IS* their business to deliver the ad in the first place.

    9. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well that makes it ok.

      Yes, actually it does... or at least no more wrong than advertisements in general already are. Suggesting that it should only be acceptable to advertise anti-abortion options when they are willing to adopt the child is approximately equivalent to suggesting that *ANY* commercial advertiser of a product should also be giving away that product for free. In the end, it's just an ad...while it's not the advertiser's business what you actually do after seeing the ad, it actually *IS* their business to deliver the ad in the first place.

      If you're going to tell someone that they shouldn't have an abortion, you should do your part to help with the situation. That was my point. You don't get to just step into a stranger's life and start telling them what you think they should do so you can feel all warm and fuzzy. That makes you an asshat.

      I'm not saying people should get what is advertised to them for free. That's not what I meant. Just because it's someone's business to do something to you, that doesn't make it ok for them to do it to you. I don't like targeted advertising. Have you figured that out yet?

    10. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just to be clear, I don't mean to disrespect you, Mark-t and NotInHere. I recognise your names and I have seen you both say some insightful things here. I just need to put more thought into the things that I say sometimes. Have a good night. Anon

    11. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't think it's bad that privacy-invasions are being already used to track, tag and 'warn' people who are thinking "the wrong thoughts"?

      You DO realize this is only being used to tell us it's bad because they're currently forbidden from stoning us to death for it, right?

    12. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What IS bad though is to forbid abortions, because this will just lead to women who want to abort their child to use more dangerous methods.

      What IS bad though is to forbid (rape, killing already-born children and adults, mugging, breaking into people's homes, committing armed bank robberies, selling guns to convicted felons, etc.), because this will just lead to (people who want to do these things) to use more dangerous methods.

      See how that works? If we based everything on your argument, we would have no criminal code. "Do what thou wilt unto other people and may the strongest & most sociopathic & most heavily-armed person win" would be the whole of the law.

    13. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Adopt the baby. Pay for the woman's medical expenses. Support any dependants she might have in the event that she does not survive the birth (this does still happen, you know). Provide her with an income during the last few months of pregnancy during which she may not be able to work - depending on her job, of course, but if she happens to be a ballet dancer she'll not be dancing while she's eight months pregnant.

      And even if someone is willing to provide all of the above, it's still none of their business. God this shit makes me angry. You anti-abortion people are just so fucking wrong.

    14. Re:So what by AmiMoJo · · Score: 0

      The difference is that it's a women's body and she is likely in a difficult emotional state, looking for impartial and supportive guidance.

      It's the same reason why we generally don't want protestors harassing people visiting clinics. The balance between the patients right to privacy and impartial medical care has to be balanced against the protestors rights.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    15. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And like any other ad, it may help you to do what you wanted or deceive you into doing something you did not want to do before. But that's just the same manipulation like when you're about to buy something or not.

    16. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the USA there's a waiting list five miles long to adopt children. Demand outstrips supply by an order of magnitude.

    17. Re:So what by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Right.... that's why it is absolutely none of their business what the woman actually does. But it *IS* their business to make the suggestion, because that is the entire purpose of advertisements. The fact that it happens to be a human being's body that is at hand is entirely immaterial.... Drugs affect the human body too, but you see commercials for different drugs on television all the time.

    18. Re:So what by mark-t · · Score: 1

      That's a fair assessment... but what I object to is people choosing to take issue with this particular case just because it happens to revolve around the matter of choosing to abort or not. What they are doing here is absolutely no different than any other kind of targeted ad.

    19. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Telling women to not do abortions is nothing bad IMO. Its what ads are about: telling us to do different stuff. Its what made google rich.

      Fair enough.

      Now maybe Abortion Clinics should do likewise. Target pregnant women with lots of adverts:
      - "Are you sure you've thought this through?"
      - "7 Billion and counting. Do you really feel your genes & parenting skills are what the world needs?"
      - "This baby is just going to complicate the divorce."

      Profit! ;-)

  4. Article says saving unborn babies is evil! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I don't suppose there's a less biased, neutral toned article on this subject available to read, is there?

    1. Re:Article says saving unborn babies is evil! by bug_hunter · · Score: 1

      I read the article, I didn't see where it said that. It was concerned with the level of spying on people during a deeply personal time. The same way if atheists targeted people in churches with anti-religious adverts.

      --
      It's turtles all the way down.
    2. Re:Article says saving unborn babies is evil! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have to be kidding me, they wouldn't have published this if it was about diaper or crib ads.

    3. Re:Article says saving unborn babies is evil! by NotInHere · · Score: 0

      I don't understand you. First the abortion supporters say it should be made as easy and as normal as possible, like getting a haircut, and now you say its something deeply personal.

      I don't dislike giving women a choice, or allowing professionals to perform abortions legally, and I do not like some of the laws that republican run states have made after the supreme court ruling. I even think that there should be an analogous ruling for the men, where the man can say "okay you may get this baby, and I may be the father, but I don't want to care for it", so that the man has a choice as well, and then the woman can decide whether she still wants to get the baby or not. After all its unfair if only the woman can decide.

      But I don't really see why if you google "toilet paper" you now get bombarded by ads for toilet paper is something different than other targeted ads, like this one.

      As long as it doesn't tell people to do illegal things.

    4. Re:Article says saving unborn babies is evil! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Its like gun ownership

      Nothing illegal about having a gun ...right.

      So what would be wrong with using the internet to gather information and publish the names and addresses of gun owners, after all that is free speech. You could even have people on the street outside gun shops taking photos of everyone who enters/exits, its on the street, anyone can take photos in public areas.

      No one has done anything illegal, but I am sure the NRA would be against it.

    5. Re:Article says saving unborn babies is evil! by dbIII · · Score: 1

      I don't understand you. First the abortion supporters say it should be made as easy and as normal as possible, like getting a haircut

      Near me recently a twelve year old, who had been raped and had a non-trivial risk of death if she took the child to term, had to go through a complex legal process at two levels of court to get approval. That's how badly things currently fail the "common-sense" test.

      From the outside it looks to me like the abortion supporters want it to be possible without the state paying so much time consuming attention to the process. It's so incredibly abnormal for a medical thing that it is a million miles away from "getting a haircut".

    6. Re:Article says saving unborn babies is evil! by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 1

      First the abortion supporters say it should be made as easy and as normal as possible, like getting a haircut, and now you say its something deeply personal.

      WTF? Deciding on a haircut is a deeply personal decision. Especially if it's the hair that isn't on your head.

    7. Re:Article says saving unborn babies is evil! by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Like they didn't publish an article about Target pushing diaper ads? http://weblogs.pbspaces.com/mr... I remember reading that one on Slashdot, but couldn't find it, and had to go to a broader search.

    8. Re:Article says saving unborn babies is evil! by jmv · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry, but this is just bad taste... and yes, I would say the same if these were pro-abortion ads ("You're pregnant! Ever considered an abortion?"). Also, I suspect any attempt at having anti-abortion ads is bound to backfire and "promote" the idea as an option.

    9. Re:Article says saving unborn babies is evil! by NotInHere · · Score: 1

      Still ads for haircuts are legal. And would you disapprove of ads that say "let them grow long"?

    10. Re:Article says saving unborn babies is evil! by NotInHere · · Score: 1

      Well how I'd imagine the process should be is that a woman who seeks abortion first need to speak to a doctor who had a special course, and then she can get it done. Maybe even on the same visit, and regardless of whether she is a rape victim or not.

    11. Re:Article says saving unborn babies is evil! by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 1

      Of course I wouldn't disapprove of ads that say "let them grow long."

      What would piss me off is if I saw a barbershop ad, went to get a haircut, got cornered inside by a bunch of long-haired hippies telling me about all the bad things that happen to people with haircuts, and then got harassed for weeks by people leaving flyers on my door with pictures of cut-off hair.

    12. Re:Article says saving unborn babies is evil! by dbIII · · Score: 1
      IMHO these things are about politicising a medical situation for the sake of a few cheap votes and whoever told you the "like getting a haircut" thing was most likely someone pushing some draconian laws for the sake of cheap votes.

      Here's one from yesterday from the Australian state of Victoria which was voted on yesterday but didn't pass the senate:

      The bill also required that women “in distress” be provided with “holistic care”. If a woman faced a risk of death or “serious and permanent physical impairment” after 24 weeks, doctors would be required to deliver the baby in a unit with neo-natal facilities “with the intention of preserving the child’s life”.

      How fucked up is that? Force the doctors to try to preserve the baby instead of going with what they see as the best outcome for the situation. In that case government is deliberately trying to get in the way of medical expertise. Micromanagement by people with no idea how to manage a situation.
      The quote is from an Australian news site I subscribe to called "crikey.com.au" and by sheer fluke had an item on that topic today. There is a paywall but you can get around it with a free trial of a few days.

      a woman who seeks abortion first need to speak to a doctor who had a special course

      It's called a medical degree - they all know about those aspects because reproductive medicine is a major part of general practice and go through such things in detail before starting specialties. If they hit an edge case they are unsure about they refer to an Ob/Gyn specialist just as they would refer other odd things. At least that's what the doctors I know tell me.
      On the other hand the people who draft the laws have not had a special course. Maybe they should before taking control from those who have?

    13. Re:Article says saving unborn babies is evil! by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      No.

      Any unbiased article on abortion would be attacked as biased by both sides. They don't even use the same terminology.

    14. Re:Article says saving unborn babies is evil! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are they publishing the names of women considering abortion? Somehow, I don't think they are, and I would assume/hope that both and all sides of the abortion argument would be against that, for very obvious reasons that are only tangentially related to abortions.
      No, the equivalent would be someone considering buying a gun, and then getting targeted ads about the evils and dangers of gun ownership.

    15. Re:Article says saving unborn babies is evil! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "after 24 weeks, doctors would be required to deliver the baby in a unit with neo-natal facilities"

      Children are viable from 24 weeks onward. Additionally aborting a 24 week old foetus is a non-trivial task and delivering the baby live is just as easy as delivering it dead.

      Basically they are recognising that at 24 weeks you have a little person and it deserves a modicum of human like treatment.

      But the nerve, right? Fuck that little sack of cells. Fuck their life. The ONLY important person in this situation is the mother. Who cares if she's seeking abortion at 24 weeks or 9 months (full term - and this does happen)? It's still a little non-human who should shut-up and die. (That's sarcasm, in case you couldn't tell with your stunted sense of morality).

  5. HIPAA? by romco · · Score: 1, Interesting

    HIPAA?

    --
    AdFuel
    1. Re:HIPAA? by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 0

      clueless?

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
  6. Double standard by Livius · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I realize that people are emotional about abortion, but objectively this is no more creepy or unethical than anything else in the advertising industry.

    1. Re:Double standard by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      You gotta draw a crowd. The advertising industry is boring. Abortion is exciting!

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    2. Re:Double standard by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

      while that may be true in a superficial sense, it's a step further in that it's intrusive based on an opposing ideology rather than selling a product. it would be like if it determined you were republican and fed you misinformation about voting dates and locations.

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    3. Re:Double standard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I realize that people are emotional about abortion, but objectively this is no more creepy or unethical than anything else in the advertising industry.

      Yes, but that was already fucking creepy.

      This is admittedly not new but pardon while we continue to proclaim the fall of Troy.

    4. Re:Double standard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it would be like if it determined you were republican and fed you misinformation about voting dates and locations.

      We already have those attempts, often from ostensibly legitimate sources.

      http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/11/election-dirty-tricks

    5. Re:Double standard by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      When's your next coat hanger party?

      And may I come?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    6. Re:Double standard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Creepiness and (arguably) morality are not objective. Objectively there's nothing creepy about anything and I've yet to come across a truly objective morality, although many people claim objectivity.

    7. Re:Double standard by brantondaveperson · · Score: 1

      but objectively this is no more creepy or unethical than anything else in the advertising industry.

      So, in other words, spectacularly creepy and deeply unethical then?

    8. Re:Double standard by rizole · · Score: 1

      I'd argue that it is more creepy and/or unethical because it's not just advertising is it? It's a biased communication pushing a moral agenda, more commonly called propaganda.

    9. Re:Double standard by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Medical privacy?

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    10. Re:Double standard by Livius · · Score: 1

      The advertising is long since way past "just advertising". The pure evil is just a little more obvious in this case.

    11. Re:Double standard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Big News: Everyone can buy ad space!

    12. Re:Double standard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No this is very different but to see why you have to put yourself in her shoes. It tells the woman, "we know who you are and what you are doing". She doesn't know how ad tech works. All she sees is that she's at the clinic and someone knows and can put this on the internet. Or worse.

      This is definitely harrassment.

  7. retard girl by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    yeah, the reatard know that I'm close to my mom PC because of the mic... now her goal is to destroy xfce. look, SHIT (this is how I call the daughter of the croocked cop) stop using my mother against me. As I said, I was ignored all my life, the best thing I know how to do with anybody is how to easily reject anybody.

    1. Re:retard girl by PopeRatzo · · Score: 0

      yeah, the reatard know that I'm close to my mom PC because of the mic... now her goal is to destroy xfce. look, SHIT (this is how I call the daughter of the croocked cop) stop using my mother against me. As I said, I was ignored all my life, the best thing I know how to do with anybody is how to easily reject anybody.

      Trump 2016

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    2. Re:retard girl by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mad about it Bernout? How does it feel to support yet another socialist loser? A Trump presidency is coming and it won't be kind to your ilk.

    3. Re:retard girl by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      A Trump presidency is coming and it won't be kind to your ilk.

      I'm thinking a Trump presidency will be very kind to my ilk.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    4. Re:retard girl by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hope you like hard labor camps and long nights with Jamal and the gang.

    5. Re:retard girl by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      White males in the top 10%? Probably.

    6. Re: retard girl by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's because you're a racist, and wrongly assume everyone else is likewise bigoted.

    7. Re:retard girl by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      A Trump presidency is the best that could happen to me, to be honest. I really expect this to increase our economic viability along with my own.

      Then again, I'm not in the US...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  8. Anti-Choice? WTF by nicoleb_x · · Score: 1

    First time I've heard that. It's really much "milder" to my ears than anti-abortion. You know, kind of like describing our president as anti-choice after he lied about "If you like your plan you can keep your plan"

    1. Re:Anti-Choice? WTF by roninmagus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So these people are "pro-choice" and others are "pro-life." Doesn't it make sense if you're an ideologue to take away the positive connotations of "pro" and even "life" by calling your opponents "anti-choice?"

    2. Re:Anti-Choice? WTF by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's the first time I've heard it described that way as well. I find it refreshingly accurate. They might be on the side of life but it's still "their way or the highway".

    3. Re:Anti-Choice? WTF by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, the anti-life er,um.. pro-choice side in no way displays 'my way or the highway', ever.

    4. Re:Anti-Choice? WTF by BoogieChile · · Score: 2

      Well, no, they aren't because they aren't forcing people to have abortions.

      As opposed to the anti-abortion types who want to force people to have babies.

    5. Re:Anti-Choice? WTF by AK+Marc · · Score: 2, Informative

      Pro-life is more likely to be pro-death (penalty). So the moniker doesn't appear accurate. It's not about "life". It's about control. When you are seeing a doctor that performs abortions, one side wants you to have two choices. The other, only one. So one is pro-choice. And the other is anti-choice.

      Pro-choice is also anti-abortion. A pro-choice person is more likely to support condom distribution and use, which decreases abortions. So pro-choice is more anti-abortion than anti-choice people. Anti-choice is about power and control (and punishment), not the baby.

    6. Re:Anti-Choice? WTF by richpoore · · Score: 2
      Both sides advocate for the removal of choice, it's just which choices they feel are legitimate.

      The left is more likely to remove the choice of gun ownership, the choice of who you can do business with, what size soda you can buy, or what you can say as a religious leader.

      The right is more likely to remove the choice of whether you can kill your fetus or baby (depending on your viewpoint)

      Whether abortion should be legal really comes down to a belief. When does a person become a person? If you believe a person becomes a person when they exit their mother's womb, then you should have no problem with the term pro-abortion. If that's your belief, then you shouldn't even care if there are fewer abortions. It's just a medical procedure extracting unwanted cells from a woman's body. If, however, you believe a person becomes a person before that, then under no circumstances, other than the certainty of making a choice between the mother's or the baby's life, should someone be allowed to kill the baby at that point.

      I've heard people point to many tests to determine person-hood: viability, heartbeat, sensing pain, the ability to survive on it's own (which may not really happen well into childhood). It's really a question of when does a child obtain rights.

      Personally, I find it unscientific and arbitrary to say a person becomes a person because they changed location.

    7. Re:Anti-Choice? WTF by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Personally, I find it unscientific and arbitrary to say a person becomes a person because they changed location.

      And yet, people acquire or lose all kinds of rights depending on their locations. Such as being imprisoned. There are some interesting parallels there.

      Whether or not the fetus can be considered a person is actually completely irrelevant to the topic. Killing people is not always murder. For example, we regularly permit police to do so. Neither adults nor children have an uninfringeable right to life, so it would be inconsistent to grant that to unborn persons.

    8. Re:Anti-Choice? WTF by Livius · · Score: 0

      As near as I can tell, "pro-life" just means bitterly jealous of people with better sex lives than them.

    9. Re:Anti-Choice? WTF by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > As opposed to the anti-abortion types who want to force people to have babies.
      Are you serious?

    10. Re:Anti-Choice? WTF by sittingnut · · Score: 1

      "Pro-life is more likely to be pro-death (penalty)"," A pro-choice person is more likely to support condom distribution and use,"
      when out of rational arguments, use logical fallacy of speculated association. huh?
      and clearly confused speculations too. for instance, anti abortion Catholic church is against condoms, but is also against death penalty. others, i for one, is other way around on those two issues, but still pro-life on abortions.
      so leave out "more likely" speculative associations, and stick to issue.

      "Anti-choice is about power and control (and punishment), not the baby."
      well pro-life/anti-abortion is about the baby, and its lack of choice, and its murder through free decisions and choices of those on whom it depends for life..

      so more appropriate words to two main sides of abortion issue are "pro choice" and "pro life", also, "pro abortion " and "anti abortion"

    11. Re: Anti-Choice? WTF by richpoore · · Score: 1

      There is a presumptive right to life. Police and others must show why it was necessary, or they believed it necessary. Policemen have gone to jail for killing people.

  9. Ad block now protects your privacy too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Security and Privacy increased by blocking Ads. Time to rebrand ad blockers as security and privacy protection.

  10. It seems innocent enough, at 1st... by rmdingler · · Score: 0
    You post and moderate on Slashdot, visit Ars Technica, and comment on your local paper's website using HTML...

    Boom... you're getting these banner ads for basement paint.

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

    1. Re: It seems innocent enough, at 1st... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Completely lost my shit and woke my sleeping bed mate. Thank you. Shocked your comment doesnt have +5 funny yet.

  11. What's next, religious groups harassing gays? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you can target pregnant women with your religion-funded protest why can't you target Grind'r users with some anti-homo therapy bullshit? Where is the line EXACTLY?

    1. Re: What's next, religious groups harassing gays? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Informing about reparative therapy can lead to improved lives. It's on par with other pharmaceutical advertisement.

    2. Re:What's next, religious groups harassing gays? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 0

      What's next, religious groups harassing gays?

      Where have you been?

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    3. Re:What's next, religious groups harassing gays? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      And you know, I don't get it. I mean, religious and gays, it seems like a match made in heaven when it comes to anti-abortion.

      I mean, who has fewer abortions than gays?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  12. VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    TFA:

    ... on behalf of anti-choice ...

    Fuck you, VoiceOfDoom

    What is the fucking point of inserting an inflammatory / accusatory 'anti-choice' label in the article?

    This is Slashdot, not some pro-choice / pro-life forum

    VoiceOfDoom, go fuck youself !

    1. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      hat is the fucking point of inserting an inflammatory / accusatory 'anti-choice' label in the article?

      Because the term, "pro-life" really doesn't have any meaning. What life? Whose life? Just human life or does it cover viruses?

      I find "pro-reproductive rights" and "anti-reproductive rights" to be more accurate and less inflammatory.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    2. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by rworne · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That may be less inflammatory, but the subject is abortion, not reproductive rights as a whole.

      I do like the nice, friendly and progressive sounding "pro-choice" moniker. And the cuddly, protective, "pro-life" one.

      But why not just call it what it is and be done with it?

      pro-abortion/anti-abortion

      No need to sugar coat it. If you need to sugar coat it to make it palatable, there is something wrong with it.

      --
      I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit
    3. Re: VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by jmac_the_man · · Score: 4, Insightful
      "anti-choice" is an insane way to describe anti-abortion activists. (It's also inaccurate in this story. The ads were sold to Crisis Pregnancy Centers, which help women in need have their baby.)

      That said, "anti-choice" only appears in a direct quote from the ridiculous article. VoiceOfDoom uses the phrase "anti-abortion."

    4. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hear, hear!

    5. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by AK+Marc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because nobody I know who is pro-choice is pro-abortion. Every one of them would prefer there be fewer abortions. Note, it's the pro-choice people that are involved in reporoductive rights issues that lead to lower pregnancy rates. The fewer unwanted pregnancies, the fewer the abortions. So many (almost all I know) pro-choice people are anti-abortion.

      Pro-choice and anti-choice seems to sum up the sides more accurately. One side wants to allow a legal choice. The other doesn't. The rest is emotional smokescreen.

    6. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Uhh, because it's true.

      Those anti-choice busybodies need to mind their own fucking business. Don't like abortion? Then don't do it, but don't you fucking DARE try to tell someone else what they can and can't do with their own bodies.

    7. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by matbury · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That may be less inflammatory, but the subject is abortion, not reproductive rights as a whole.

      Actually, 95% of the services that the clinics that the anti-choice activists are shutting down are reproductive healthcare, so the issue IS reproductive rights for people who can't afford private healthcare. When you shut down so called abortion clinics, the rates of sexually transmitted diseases and unwanted pregnancies spike. I guess you could say that anti-choice supporters are pro-backstreet abortion.

    8. Re: VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right, because tearing another body apart is okay...

      You know, abortion has very little to do with the woman's body. She's just the gateway. She's not actually doing anything to her body. It's the body of another she's after.

    9. Re: VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by Petfish · · Score: 1

      You know, abortion has very little to do with the woman's body. She's just the gateway. She's not actually doing anything to her body.

      OK - you can make decisions in all pregnancies that exist independent of women's bodies.

    10. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by dbIII · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Another way to look at it:

      Intrusive nanny-statists that want red tape in the bedroom and those that are not.

      That really shows up that many of those that screech "small government" are not - they want to regulate what goes on in bedrooms and where you go to piss.

      Is where you go to piss ontopic for Slashdot? Of course it is. It's an I pee address.

    11. Re: VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fine, take away the abortion and let the clinics do everything else.

      But that will never happen because handing out a condom is not equivalent to doing an abortion. Iow, that method of counting to get to 95% is intentionally deceptive. How about account by dollars allocated to each service.

      I swear that the brains of otherwise intelligent people (people on this site) fly out the window when talking about this subject. Stop repeating manipulative statistics.

    12. Re: VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

      How about account by dollars allocated to each service.

      Those numbers are available. That you don't quote them indicates you'd rather push your agenda than the truth.

    13. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      I am pro abortion. Abortions should be legal and accessible in the free market.

    14. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'm pro-abortion. I think if you need one or want one, you should get one. I don't care one way or the other, and I am not going to argue that you shouldn't get one. I don't think abortion is morally wrong; on the contrary, it's probably morally good, if the person with the uterus chose it of their own free will.

      Obviously, don't get it if you don't want it or need it, but if you do, you should have full and free access to it, under the care of a medical professional.

    15. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The life that begins two weeks before conception and ends at birth.

      And begins mattering again once it's 50 and voting republican.

    16. Re: VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Have you asked what the baby chose? Oh that's right, you just rip his or her head off.

      You're not a doctor, are you?

      If there's anything that the Planned Parenthood scandal has recently shown us, it's that the pro-choice group isn't truly anti abortion. It's a convenient talking point, but the action of everyone in the industry and the politicians involved show that they are very much pro abortion.

      I suppose heart surgeons are also pro-heart-surgery. Those naughty, naughty surgeons!

      I actually see lack of choice coming out of the so called pro choice side. They don't want mothers choosing adoption. They don't want mothers to see ultrasounds to make a rational choice. No, there is a strict agenda pushed on the pro choice side.

      The pro-choice side is perfectly happy to help any pregnant woman who wants to go to adoption. It's just not a popular option, because if you don't want a baby, you're probably not going to want to go to the trouble (and risk) of childbirth.

      They're fine with pregnant women seeing ultrasounds. Laws that require the woman to look at these, however, whether she wants to or not, are a different matter.

      Yes, there is a strict agenda pushed on the pro-choice side. It is about allowing people to make their own decisions about reproduction. Sadly, a lot of people seem to have a problem with this.

    17. Re: VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, the point is that a woman can do anything she wants with her cells. Those are not her cells, her body parts, her beating heart that she's aborting.

      Great! So the woman can do anything she wants with her cells (a.k.a. her body), including the removal of unwanted foreign cells.

      I'm glad we were able to come to an agreement on this.

    18. Re: VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fine, take away the abortion and let the clinics do everything else.

      Why? People need abortions.

      Do you go to random hospitals and tell them to take away blood transfusions, and do everything else?

      But that will never happen because handing out a condom is not equivalent to doing an abortion.

      The way many conservative politicians/parties have railed against contraception, you wouldn't know it.

    19. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by AK+Marc · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Nope. Pro-choice people take actions to reduce abortions. Pro-life people take actions that result in higher abortions. Pro-abortion is the stance of the pro-life people. Because of that, pro-life are not anti-abortion, but instead anti-choice.

      Why do you not want to use the most accurate terms?

    20. Re: VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by SuricouRaven · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Crisis Pregnancy Centers exist to give women a very firm push towards making the decision the center operators want her to make, and they aren't above the use of deception or emotional manipulation to achieve that goal.

    21. Re: VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by dunkelfalke · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yep. Especially the post-natal ones.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    22. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I could actually see myself being pro-abortion, the problem is that it's the wrong people who get an abortion.

      What should've been aborted is the religious fucknuts that keep pumping out a unit every 9 months that litter our social system.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    23. Re: VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There's enough fucking babies in the world as it is. A few million fewer wouldn't be a problem. Make it legal to drop them off at a euthanasia clinic before they turn one, and the world would be a better place.

      I should know. I've chosen to have three of them. I love them more than you hate abortion, but if someone found themselves making a baby without especially wanting it, then they should be free to be free of it. It's an it before it's born, and more or less an it for a while afterwards too. What would you know? Do you even have kids? Have you even tried to think deeply about this?

      Also, of course, the agenda argument makes about as much sense as contrails. What agenda? To depopulate the earth? What?

    24. Re: VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fine, take away the abortion and let the clinics do everything else.

      How about you choose what to do with your uterus, and I'll choose what to do with mine?

      Except, of course, you're guaranteed to be a man, which makes your opinion even less relevant than it already was.

    25. Re: VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by brantondaveperson · · Score: 1

      You know, abortion has very little to do with the woman's body. She's just the gateway. She's not actually doing anything to her body. It's the body of another she's after.

      I'm going to take a wild guess here, and suggest both that you are a man, and don't know anyone who's had a baby other than your mother.

      Just the gateway? I mean, I've read the normal anti-abortion life-begins-at-conception nonsense, but this is a new one for me. Having a baby is a physically life-changing event for a woman's body, and neither you, nor anyone else, has the right to tell that woman what to do with her own body. That we are still having this conversation in a supposedly civilised and free country is 2016 is terrifying. If America succeeds in banning abortion, the consequences will be measured in human misery, needlessly lost lives, and suffering. I hope you people are proud.

    26. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by physicsphairy · · Score: 2

      As long we apply this to every single other political issue which exists. Because gun rights is just as validly "pro-choice" vs. "anti-choice." And school vouchers. And if cities/states choose to implement capital punishment. Etc. Or do you have a particular reason why "choice" is a word which politically is only about abortion and nothing else?

      Personally, I really hate this Orwellian crap where you try to win your ideological battles by modifying the dictionary. Pro-abortion/anti-abortion clearly defines the territorial ground (and frankly gives abortion supporters the slightly more favorable "pro" adjective).

      The point where you want 'pro-choice' to go alongside 'anti-abortion' because of your claims about what else your political side represents. . . that is a ridiculous self-serving waste of everyone's time. How does it sound if I say, "People who support a broad second amendment interpretation are actually ANTI-GUN because increasing legal carriers deters criminal gun use"?

    27. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      Why don't you be intellectually honest by changing your "pro-choice" terminology to "pro-abortion" because that's what it is all about.

      Why don't you be intellectually honest and admit that you don't care one iota about the life of the baby or mother/father and only give a shit that the baby is born, nothing else matters just that the baby is born. Call yourself pro-birth.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    28. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think that there are three ways to call these:

      1. Positive: pro-choice / pro-life (since these are self-selected and non-derogatory terms)
      2. Negative: anti-choice / anti-life (and if you think only one of these is an appropriate name, you're probably siding with one of the sides)
      Number two is has the same meaning but sound quite accusing of the opposite opinion, doesn't it? And yes, neither of these really says much about what life or choice we're talking about...

      3. Objective: pro-abortion / anti-abortion
      It's not really that much about the right to reproduce, as much as the right to stop reproduction, isn't it? And I guess most reasonable people would say that pro-abortion people would prefer there to be less abortions if possible, and anti-abortion people would admit that there are cases where abortion is recommended (e.g. mother's life in danger).

      Overall, however, I would say it's reasonable to not automatically derogate the people who have a different opinion, so I guess I still prefer the first one...

       

    29. Re: VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      you don't care one iota about the life of the baby or mother/father

      In theth interests of intellectual honesty, let's not pretend anyone ever gave a shit about the father.

    30. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      with the free market setting the prices high enough to ensure that the wrong people can't get abortions, right? let the people who can't afford the market price go get coat hangers and try it themselves instead.
       
      after all, your government fantasy only works with a large population of oppressed people available to be exploited.

    31. Re: VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

      "Reproductive rights"? That's a BS political misnomer. Having an abortion is not reproducing, if my biology is correct. Abortion is actually halting a human life with human DNA that will indeed become an adult if the fetus is not killed.

      If you want to talk about perspective, maybe "pro-choice" should actually be called "anti-choice". Because the choice of a human child to live or die is taken away from him/her.

      Don't try to argue that a fetus can't make that choice unless you're willing to acknowledge that a 2 year old can't, either.

      And please don't use the words blastocyst or zygote because fetuses are being killed as well.

      Having an abortion and saying it's not murder is just anti-science. Saying it's a woman's choice is worse than slavery.

    32. Re: VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Scandal? You mean misrepresentations making a lot of noise out of nothing?

      Good talking point there, if you naively believe it.

    33. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by daid303 · · Score: 1

      The label comes from the article, it is even in the article headline.

    34. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by lexlthr · · Score: 1

      That was a quote from the article - wasn't it? He didn't insert it - he quoted the first paragraph from the article.

    35. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Personally, I really hate this Orwellian crap where you try to win your ideological battles by modifying the dictionary.

      Thus your attempts at defining one side that are CLEARLY and INTENTIONALLY meant to further you own purpose, and so is your appeal to Orwell.

      You have an agenda to advance, and you want to win your battle. But it isn't possible to believe you have a neutral one.

      The fact is, defining your identity has long been part of existence. One man's freedom fighter may be another's revolutionary, terrorist, or just criminal.

      But you, you want to portray yourself as morally sound, and not engaging in your own ridiculously self-serving waste of time.

      PS, those who advance Public School Elimination(the ones in Alabama in the fifties were quite openly racially motivated), Locality Sanctioned Murder(That's what Lynchings are), and so forth ARE also engaging in the behavior you deplore, by portraying themselves in another way.

    36. Re: VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by Evtim · · Score: 1

      Just a gateway!?!?!? Are you for real?

      You know how you sound? Like those totally perverted, sexually frustrated, boy-raping, homosexual woman-haters called Christian priests, who claimed for hundreds of years that a:) women had no souls and b:) that a woman is a filthy bag of scum, a creature driven only by lust, a Satan's spawn whose only desire is to seduce the innocent men and veer them away from God.

      Source: "The name of the rose" and before someone says that it is just a book I'd like to remind that U.E. is a top tier scholar of medieval times.

      Also source: my personal conversations with religious professionals [Christian and Muslim]. They really are women-haters. Interestingly enough the modern feminist are willing to lie in bed with those MF's in order to combat all other men who they think are the women-haters. Margaret Atwood had something to say about it...

    37. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by lysdexia · · Score: 1

      1997-era slashdot server reboot in 5 . . . 4 . . .

    38. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      its pro/anti the right to have an abortion / right to abort your child.

    39. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      If one child's life is saved by being anti-choice, then I'm willing to be anti-choice. It's a small price to pay in comparison to a human life.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    40. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      You must not know any "environmentalists for the extinction of humanity" types then.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    41. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice anecdote. Here's another anecdote. I once saw a feminist group try to increase the availability of adoption services and pregnancy support services to women, without decreasing availability to abortion to watch them great screamed down and derided as anti-choice by pro-choice advocates.

      Pro-choice, lol.

    42. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by ImprovOmega · · Score: 1

      I suppose the only fair thing to do would be to re-label the pro-choice groups as "pro-death" or "anti-life" just to keep the inflammatory rhetoric to a maximum.

    43. Re: VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      And women's reproductive health clinics push them towards having abortions, and they aren't above the use of deception or emotional manipulation to achieve that goal.

      That's how the world works. People push what they want. No surprises here.

    44. Re: VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, as they say your children are humans, but those other millions are just a statistic. Thank you for illustrating the point.

    45. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I get it. It's sort of like calling it "copyright infringement", instead of "theft".

    46. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by tnk1 · · Score: 1

      Yes, there are those who have views that are both anti-abortion and unfortunately, also encourage the production of more undesired children. That is not universally the case.

      In any event, the positions are entirely separate. You can be 100% in favor of sex education, support for adoption, contraception, and even socialist programs to ensure that the children as a result of unwanted pregnancies are fully supported by the state and you can still be against abortion in almost all cases.

      I understand that you probably realize this and are using hyperbole to make a point about the reality of certain political movements. That said, you're just encouraging ignorance by doing so. These matters are important enough that they need to be considered without being seen through the light of rhetoric pointed at reactionary politics.

      The question is simple. Can an otherwise viable human be terminated to ensure that the mother is not inconvenienced? While there are cases of severe, and even ruinous inconvenience that come up, the law permits abortion on demand, which implies that the inconvenience can be quite trivial. The legality of such is not in question, there is no doubt the state can make this legal. The question is simply one of ethics and morality. We must consider what the limits of human rights really are in practice.

    47. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by tnk1 · · Score: 1

      Let's be perfectly honest here. No one is really trying to shut down the full range of reproductive services for women. This is only the cause because organizations will not separate abortion services from otherwise uncontroversial reproductive services that those uncontroversial services are impacted.

      I understand that it would be inefficient and cause inefficiencies to separate them, but that's different than the protesters or anti-abortion activists actually trying to harm the other programs. Calling someone out for that is like someone pulling a hostage in front of them and then blaming the cops for endangering the hostage by not letting the perpetrator get away. When someone uses the "threat to reproductive services" as a counter in that manner, it doesn't quite ring true. You know full well that they aren't trying to accomplish what you accuse them of.

    48. Re: VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      So in other words not accessible to everyone.

    49. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I understand that it would be inefficient and cause inefficiencies to separate them, but that's different than the protesters or anti-abortion activists actually trying to harm the other programs. Calling someone out for that is like someone pulling a hostage in front of them and then blaming the cops for endangering the hostage by not letting the perpetrator get away. When someone uses the "threat to reproductive services" as a counter in that manner, it doesn't quite ring true. You know full well that they aren't trying to accomplish what you accuse them of.

      The effect for what they do is known, what they want, well, that's often surreptitious. Calling out someone for that is like blaming the cops when they fire 200 rounds at a suspected "criminal" who is standing in front of a school. A criminal, who is in fact, Frank Scorpio, about to reveal police corruption and abuses.

      You want to be perfectly honest? You've got a long way to go. A long way. Because you are not revealing the truth about TRAP or the Pro-life advocates, just trying to defend them by saying that they don't really intend to do something.

      Well, fuck, intent isn't necessary for you to do wrong. You still have consequences from your actions.

      But their intent is sketchy enough.

      So net result? Bad intent, bad results, why not be honest about it? Even a smidgen?

      So no, you're not perfectly honest.

    50. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by Macdude · · Score: 1

      Pro-Abortion is the wrong label because I'm not pro-abortion. I'm not in favour of women having abortions, I feel that it's a private matter between a woman and her doctor and none of my business. So I'm pro-choice, as in, it's the woman's choice.

      --
      "Grab them by the pussy" -- President of the United States of America
    51. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pro-choice and anti-choice seems to sum up the sides more accurately. One side wants to allow a legal choice. The other doesn't.

      You could argue, with equal validity, that pro-right-to-life and anti-right-to-life are more accurate terms. After all, one side wants embryos to be guaranteed the right to live, and the other doesn't.

      (And I'm on the side of having freely-available, government-funded abortions, from a social-welfare point of view. I just don't like dishonest rhetoric.)

    52. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by tnk1 · · Score: 1

      And what is the so-called "truth" about pro-life activists? What is your actual assertion? I don't actually see you making a claim here.

      And I totally disagree. I would point out intent is absolutely essential in determining if someone is doing something wrong.

      Now yes, it is possible to go too far. And it is possible to make a decision to not pursue a course of action because innocent people may be harmed, even if the bad guys get away. But at some point you have to stand up and counter that or the hostages keep getting taken because the tactic always works.

      You could argue that they could stop going after PP just because they provided useful health care services. But is PP the only possible place money can be sent to provide women's health services? And if they believed that they could run women's health care services separately from abortion services more with less problems and less danger to all involved, why wouldn't they? Hell, I might actually donate to Planned Parenthood if I could be certain that not a cent of it ever supported abortions. Providing mammograms or sex ed or sonograms or contraception is 100% a-ok to me. I don't know why you actually believe anyone is trying to stop that.

      And that's just it. There's no "War on Women". There's no desire to interrupt women's health care. They just don't like abortion and think its wrong.

      Let's be clear. PP has every right to support abortion as part of "women's health care", but a lot of people disagree with that while not disagreeing with the other programs. If those other programs were so important to PP, they have the power to ensure they are scrupulously separate, but they won't. And that's why people oppose PP. PP does not believe that other health care should be separated from abortions, which is a stand they can take, but it doesn't make their opponents the ogres that they would like to portray them as.

    53. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Not that's not true. The pro-right-to-life side doesn't care about embryos, just punishment of women with embryos inside them. Go on, check me on that. What's the pro-life stance on IVF clinics? It's a lot less clear, and you'd be able to find people on both sides of it. The right to life of the embryo is orthogonal to whether someone is pro-choice or anti-choice.

    54. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      anti-life misanthropes are unrelated to choice. You must not know any either? The truly pro-extinction environmentalists wouldn't be "pro-choice" but are pro-abortion, pro sterilization, pro euthanasia. They'll claim the opposite side of "pro life", regardless of the stance. That it coincides with pro-choice at a glance is coincidental.

    55. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by AK+Marc · · Score: 1
      School vouchers aren't about "choice" but taxes. Both sides agree that you have the choice to school your children as you see fit (to some minimum standard), but the pro-voucher groups are fighting for taxes to be spent on schools that reject science/logic and tech superstition and indoctrinate into a cult.

      How does it sound if I say, "People who support a broad second amendment interpretation are actually ANTI-GUN because increasing legal carriers deters criminal gun use"?

      Sounds better than the pro-life side which is pro-death (penalty) and anti support for the child once born, and against any mechanisms that prevent abortion (except perhaps for the forced sterilization of women, but only if they fit an undesirable category). They aren't pro-life in any definition, other than their propaganda on abortion.

    56. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by WinstonWolfIT · · Score: 1

      The f bomb isn't necessary. Watch your tongue.

    57. Re: VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no baby. It's just a non-independent, non-sentient collection of cells.

      Do you cry when people have cysts or tumours removed? How about when you bleed or jack-off?

    58. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "don't you fucking DARE try to tell someone else what they can and can't do with their own bodies."

      You tell 'em.

      Ah but they went and did it anyway. It looks like in reality your authoritative words have no authority.

    59. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      For every 7 people living on the Earth today, one was aborted. I make no apologies for opposing genocide.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    60. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by dryeo · · Score: 1

      The problem is that prohibition does not work. Prohibit women from legally getting an abortion and they will get an abortion illegally which presents all kinds of problems.
      Here in Canada Dr Henry Morgantaler started his (illegal at the time) abortion clinic when his receptionist came into work bleeding and damaged from an illegal abortion. Three times he was charged and tried for performing abortions, he'd get up in court, explain why he did abortions and the juries would find him not guilty (only took an hour the last time) and the public became very unhappy when the government used double jeopardy to convict him and throw him in jail after juries acquitted him. This led to laws and eventually a constitutional protection from double jeopardy along with other constitutional protections and eventually the anti-abortion laws were thrown out as unconstitutional.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    61. Re: VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm pro-life (anti- 'convenience' abortion, specifically), pro mom/baby support, pro sex education (including the most logical 'shut your legs') and against capital punishment. Also, I'm a Christian. I know this is hard to believe, but your view of us 'religious nutjobs' is more than a little off base.

    62. Re:VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by ZorglubZ · · Score: 1

      The question is simple. Can an otherwise viable human be terminated to ensure that the mother is not inconvenienced?

      A viable human would be able to survive independently; an embryo can't. Should it be illegal to remove cancer cells? They're human cells, after all, so killing them would be unethical. If you think that's disingenious, consider that an embryo (and a fetus) fit the description of a parasite to a T.

    63. Re: VoiceOfDoom, *FUCK YOU*!! by jmac_the_man · · Score: 1
      What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

      First off, the original article was a stupid thing to post on Slashdot because it was clearly biased. You could tell because of the article's use of loaded language. (If you want to use unbiased language, the phrases that everyone seems to agree on are "pro-life" and "pro-choice.") Most of Slashdot would be opposed to geo-gating ads from Planned Parenthood or other abortion providers as well, because one of the things Slashdot discusses is geo-gating ads. The site the article came from opposes everything Crisis Pregnancy Centers do.

      Secondly, if you're a zealot and demand to use the term "anti-choice," in order to be accurate, you have to use it to describe people who are actually restricting other people's choices. CPCs DON'T ACTUALLY DO THAT. Abortion providers provide one choice, and CPCs provide the other. It could be accurate to describe some pro-life protesters (who are campaigning to ban abortion) as "anti-choice" (although you're still a dope using loaded language), but the phrase is 100% inaccurate when applied to CPCs.

      Finally, plenty of deception and emotional manipulation goes on at Planned Parenthood too.

  13. Ads on Slashdot by thecombatwombat · · Score: 1

    I admit this is sort of off topic, but this story just made me consider: why do I suddenly have ads on /.?

    For many years now, I've had no ads with a little message explaining that since I've had a story on the front page, I could browse Slashdot ad free. Did this go away with the last regime change?

    1. Re:Ads on Slashdot by NotInHere · · Score: 1

      That checkbox never worked for me. Maybe because I reset cookies each time I visit slashdot.

      Perhaps your cookie has expired and you had to re-login, perhaps try to re-check the checkbox.

      Anyway, I have an adblocker, so I don't notice.

    2. Re:Ads on Slashdot by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 1

      I have a feeling that if I post comments on this story, I'm going to be seeing ads for cervical sponges on every page I visit for the next month!

    3. Re:Ads on Slashdot by brantondaveperson · · Score: 1

      Maybe because I reset cookies each time I visit slashdot.

      No, it won't be that. Slashdot implement that feature using telepathic visitor tracking.

  14. Biased summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Notice how the 'pro-' prefix is only attached to one side. The other side isn't pro- anything, only anti-. I've only ever seen the two camps called pro-life and pro-choice, but somehow pro-life became both anti-abortion and anti-choice.

    1. Re:Biased summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      " but somehow pro-life became both anti-abortion and anti-choice."

      Its always been that.

    2. Re:Biased summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "but somehow pro-life became both anti-abortion and anti-choice."

      Its always been that.

  15. Progressvies, *FUCK YOU*!! by mi · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Yep, TFA is about convincing women to make the right choice. But for "progressives" some choices are more equal than others.

    Choosing to have a baby makes you "anti-choice".

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:Progressvies, *FUCK YOU*!! by dbIII · · Score: 1

      I disagree. Deciding that a government should choose and tell the doctors and patients to fuck off is very much "anti-choice" in a very literal sense.

      That we are having this discussion at all in a forum such as this is a bit of an indication of how intrusive this excessive red tape from those who say they are "small government" advocates is. The majority of the people here know fuckall about the topic but noise happens because excessive government interference has turned something that really doesn't matter to most of the people here into a defining point for political canditates.

    2. Re:Progressvies, *FUCK YOU*!! by mi · · Score: 2

      Deciding that a government should choose

      There is not a word about "government" in TFA.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    3. Re:Progressvies, *FUCK YOU*!! by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Utter bollocks. Progressives want people to get impartial medical advice and support, so they can make a decision. The important part is that there is a genuine decision. Conservatives are the ones pushing laws to try to guilt women into making the "right" decision, like forcing them to see the foetus on an ultrasound first and then take pain killers "for the child" even though they have no effect.

      If you make a free and informed decision to keep the child, then that's fine and you will find progressive organizations lining up to offer support.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    4. Re:Progressvies, *FUCK YOU*!! by dbIII · · Score: 1

      There is plenty in the associated comments, especially people splitting on party lines in on issue that IMHO neither party should be fucking about with.
      However I'm mostly distracted by your sig that tends to make me think every single one of your posts is political whether it was intended to be or not.

  16. Permission to plug our computer at our discretion by AutodidactLabrat · · Score: 1

    With any luck, this will end corporate liberty to use personal data in any way EXCEPT to send ads agreed to by the consumer prior to the first object.

  17. Choice between what? by mi · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Because the term, "pro-life" really doesn't have any meaning. What life?

    It has just as much meaning as the term "pro-choice". Which choice? What are the options?

    Whose life?

    That of a human fetus. Which — to millions of people world-wide — is already a human being. The choice, which you and VoiceOfDoom wish to preserve, has two options in these millions' opinion:

    • murder
    • new human life

    Because they consider abortion to be murder, they don't view this particular choice as legitimate.

    Not sure, whether the organizations mentioned in TFA think so, or simply wish to increase the birth-rates in USA. But even in the former case, they are not "anti-choice" in general — they are against offering this particular choice.

    No doubt, there are a lot of things you think ought to be illegal — even if abortion is not among them. That makes you "ant-choice" too, whenever the choice is between doing and not doing one of those things...

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:Choice between what? by mi · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Do you believe this is a human being?

      I think, I worded my posting most carefully to avoid specifying my own opinion.

      Do not make it personal.

      The point remains — the people, whom you denounce as "anti-choice", are not — contrary to your implication — against choice in general. They are against the particular choice between having an abortion and not having one.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    2. Re:Choice between what? by mi · · Score: 1

      Answer the question.

      Not until you come here with a subpoena.

      Do you believe [...]

      My beliefs are irrelevant to the point I made. Which you would not refute.

      I think, we are done here.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    3. Re:Choice between what? by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Does a zygote or a blastula count as a living human being? I'd say, sure it is. It's obviously not a camel. But it's certainly not yet a "person", and doesn't "deserve the same rights as other human beings". 90% of them end up falling into the toilet anyway. Nature doesn't give a crap about "human rights". Life on Earth is supposed to be a bitch, especially if you haven't been born yet, and people need to grow up and realize that.

    4. Re:Choice between what? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      90% of them end up falling into the toilet anyway.

      I've done that myself a few times after being over-served.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    5. Re:Choice between what? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Your posting is your opinion, to claim it isn't effectively makes it a lie. If you have an opinion (and from your obvious bias, it seems obvious), then me a man and stand by it.

    6. Re:Choice between what? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      My beliefs are irrelevant to the point I made. Which you would not refute.

      No, they are quite relevant to the point you made. You represented one perspective. Identifying the bias in the speaker is required to evaluate the statements made. That you claim otherwise indicates you are an idiot that gets robbed every time you go to buy a car or negotiate for anything.

    7. Re:Choice between what? by damn_registrars · · Score: 1

      Does a zygote or a blastula count as a living human being? I'd say, sure it is. It's obviously not a camel.

      Anyone who has seen a zygote or blastula and claimed to be able to identify the species it came from is lying. You can't by any kind of non-destructive physical examination distinguish between any two animal (and even some non-animal) zygotes or blastula. Sure, it is not a mature camel but you can't tell me if it is a camel, a human, a fruitfly, a worm, or any other critter you can think of.

      --
      Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    8. Re:Choice between what? by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 3, Interesting

      One prank I love is posting a picture of a fetus, and asking someone, "Do you really think this counts as a human being?"

      "Of course it is, you monster!

      "Then you're an idiot, because that's a cat fetus."

    9. Re:Choice between what? by flghtmstr1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Incorrect. Attack the argument, not the speaker. An argument stands on its own merits regardless of any bias, credentials, etc. the speaker may have.

    10. Re:Choice between what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That you can't understand that all he did was spell out what the 'anti-abortion' people's problem is; that he neither endorsed nor condemned it, is an indicator that you don't understand english. You also don't seem to understand the concept of an intellectual argument.

    11. Re:Choice between what? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      I saw your mother blowing dealers for a hit of Oxy.

      Your argument is that the validity of the statement must be taken as true, and the argument made about the logic and subject. The most likely answer is that the statement is a lie. That makes the speaker a liar. One can't evaluate the statement without making some conclusion about the speaker.

      The statement made was opinion without logic, so how can one evaluate the logic?

    12. Re:Choice between what? by mrbester · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's also a certain irony that those who cry "murder" are living in a country with a death penalty.

      --
      "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
    13. Re:Choice between what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Then you're an idiot, because that's a cat fetus."

      Humor tends to be rare in these kinds of discussions, but you brought it. Thank you :-)

    14. Re:Choice between what? by dbIII · · Score: 1
      Murder of a potential boy, so let the woman die instead. I thought that was bullshit and that the feminists were full of it until I read things like this:

      jail terms of up to five years for doctors who terminated pregnancies after 24 weeks. The bill also required that women “in distress” be provided with “holistic care”. If a woman faced a risk of death or “serious and permanent physical impairment” after 24 weeks, doctors would be required to deliver the baby in a unit with neo-natal facilities “with the intention of preserving the child’s life”.

      There are some seriously fucked up people in government out there that want to get in the way between doctor and patient in life and death situations. If that's not excessive red tape and "nanny state" then I don't know what is.

    15. Re:Choice between what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      ... this particular choice as legitimate.

      The choice is never them adopting the child or paying for its education and healthcare. The pro-life people never take responsibility for the choice they make for everybody else. The responsibility for life falls to the pregnant woman, many of whom choose to fix with an abortion. Banning recreational drugs didn't reduce the quantity of drugs being sold, it created monopolies and gang violence to enforce that monopoly. Likewise banning abortions doesn't eliminate back-alley surgeries, it reduces the quality of care received by its patients.

    16. Re:Choice between what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >The point remains — the people, whom you denounce as "anti-choice", are not — contrary to your implication — against choice in general. They are against the particular choice between having an abortion and not having one.

      Well with the tiny little problem of them viewing it as a *single* choice.

      It is not a single choice. It is 18 years of choices and a life time of ramifications. Every single one of the nearly infinite choices in a woman's life will be affected by a particular group restricting her ability to control her own body.

    17. Re:Choice between what? by Opportunist · · Score: 0

      A fetus until the day of birth is technically a parasite. One that spreads hormones in its host body so the host is actually interested in carrying it to term, basically that's what it is.

      And yes, the life of an existent being matters more than that of one that could be. My body, my rules. Fuck you.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    18. Re:Choice between what? by Opportunist · · Score: 0

      And how in the world is it your business what someone else does with her body?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    19. Re:Choice between what? by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The jokes gets even more bizarre when you realize that the people who cry bloody murder over abortion (quite literally so) are usually very much the same that think the death penalty is a really swell idea.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    20. Re:Choice between what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That of a human fetus. Which — to millions of people world-wide — is already a human being.

      Those people are wrong.

    21. Re:Choice between what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If Nature doesn't give a crap about "human rights" then your reasoning should apply to born as well as unborn humans shouldn't it? No basis for things such as "freedom of speech" or "right to life even if you're handicapped"...? And yet most people believe that human rights do exist independently of whether the majority of a nation support them or not...

    22. Re:Choice between what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Until the "pro-life" advocates start protesting wars and show up to protest capital punishment I'm going to assume that they aren't actually pro-life and have a completely different agenda.

    23. Re:Choice between what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whose life?

      That of a human fetus. Which — to millions of people world-wide — is already a human being

      I think everyone agrees that it is human, what else would it be? A narwhal?
      Being human isn't a prerequisite for having a value. There are plenty of corpses that are human and there is nothing moral with keeping them alive, in fact, it would be highly unethical to do so.
      Life itself is also not something we care about, there is no ethical considerations to be taken before killing that broccoli.
      What matters is the person. Is there a person there or not? If there is then it might be unethical to kill it/turn it off regardless of if it is in a simulated environment in a computer or in the belly of a woman.

      Even if you are pro-life, to what extent must I go to keep everything alive? People are starving to death in Africa, do I have an obligation to go there and prevent that?
      What about people on life support? Must everyone actively work to keep them alive or is it acceptable to disconnect them and let them die naturally?
      Does a woman have an obligation to risk her life to keep a fetus alive?
      If you think that the fetus is a separate life and not part of the womans body, why would it be wrong for the woman to cut off her support to it? She doesn't have to kill it actively, just stop giving it support and let it survive in whatever way it can.
      Perhaps some pro-lifer is willing to lend their support?

    24. Re:Choice between what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whose life?

      That of a human fetus. Which — to millions of people world-wide — is already a human being.

      No big deal. It is not a human being yet to other millions of people. There are always people who do not agree on something. In the worst case, the disagreement is resolved by war.

    25. Re:Choice between what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What age is the 'fetus' that you post? Why not post up one at 16 weeks, then see if anybody gets it wrong?

    26. Re:Choice between what? by hyades1 · · Score: 1

      I hope you don't mind if I use this. There's a few people I know who would go for it hook, line and sinker...and I don't like them. :-)

      --
      I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
    27. Re:Choice between what? by mi · · Score: 2

      fucked up people in government out there that want to get in the way between doctor and patient in life and death situations

      Happens all the time. FDA would not let terminal cancer patients try experimental treatments, for example — not without lengthy application and review process — yet, when I rail about FDA's power here, my opponents are usually people, who do not mind abortions.

      There are some seriously fucked up people in government out there

      You are not kidding. Many countries — including Mexico and Ireland — ban abortions either from day one (Christianity teaches, that "life begins at conception"), or limit it beyond fairly early into gestation. For example, the Worker's Paradise[TM] of Cuba allows it for up to 10 weeks only — beyond that woman needs "special permissions".

      If that's not excessive red tape and "nanny state" then I don't know what is.

      The usual arguments against nanny state concentrate on what the state wishes to do to you, or prevent you from doing to your own self. Preventing you from killing another human being — even if it is to save yourself — is generally uncontroversial.

      Unless it is a case like this one, when the debating parties can not agree on whether fetus is already a human being or not...

      So, the abortion debate is not about "nanny state", nor is it about "choice" or "life". It is about whether the fetus is a human.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    28. Re:Choice between what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lol. Your comments on the story were in-depth and enlightened. Tell me more?!

    29. Re:Choice between what? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 0

      200,000 generations ago your ancestor was a fish. If you met him today, you would eat him with a nice sorbet and some tartar sauce. Obviously there is no way you could reproduce with such a creature.

      Over those generations each descendent was a little more like you. At some point one of them would be a recognizable human being that you would happily grant rights to, and your genetic codes would be compatible enough for reproduction.

      At what point in this line of directly descended beings does the change from delicious animal to human being with rights happen? There is no definite point, it's a continuous gradual change. Just the same way as there is no clear point at which a human egg becomes a human being. All we can do it set some kind of limit we are somewhat happy with, erring on the side of caution.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    30. Re:Choice between what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Aaaaannnnddd the circle is complete. Wonderful stream of nonsense from you today.

    31. Re:Choice between what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the situation of pregnancy or abortion, when looking at the zygote, one can see that it is attached to its mother, the species of which it belongs.

      Oh, but in a lab you mean. There's a label or reference on it. We know what animal it came from and we label it as such. Unless you work in a lab with no book keeping?

      The only situation in which you are correct is where you've taken the zygote and removed all references from it for someone to then try and distinguish it.

    32. Re:Choice between what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its my kid. But her choice trumps mine and it goes bye-bye because she doesn't want it.

      In another life she chooses to keep the child but I don't want it. Suddenly I'm paying money for her choice and if I don't pay I'll end up in jail - deprived of liberty, and this takes away the choice of what I can do with my body.

    33. Re:Choice between what? by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Actually, while those people are morons for confusing cat and human fetuses, the cat fetuses are the ones which really shouldn't be aborted, because they're going to grow up to become cute, furry, and intelligent animals, and the human ones will mostly grow up to just be assholes like all these jerks here on Slashdot.

      Of course, birds might disagree with this sentiment.

    34. Re:Choice between what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, you're just fucking hilarious.

      Will you be here all night?

    35. Re:Choice between what? by mi · · Score: 1

      And how in the world is it your business what someone else does with her body?

      If the fetus is a human being, then its very life is a valid concern for all members of society.

      Unless, of course, you are prepared to argue, laws against murder, for example, are wrong too.

      And, maybe, they are — or some of them. For example, a Libertarian could say, fine, let's stipulate fetus is a human being. Then he (not "it"!) is trespassing inside the womb — and so the woman has a right to expel him by any means necessary — "stand your ground" and all that. And, of course, she can pay someone to help her perform the extraction.

      If you like that line, you'll have to become a Libertarian too, however. How do you feel about the "Castle Doctrine"? A surprising number of supporters of legality of abortions are against it for some reason...

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    36. Re:Choice between what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cats are people too.

    37. Re:Choice between what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That was catgirl's baby you insensitive clod!

    38. Re:Choice between what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But it's certainly not yet a "person", and doesn't "deserve the same rights as other human beings". 90% of them end up falling into the toilet anyway.

      People with certain diseases have a 90% chance of dying by the end of the month, but that doesn't necessarily make it okay to kill them. (In fact, we have a moral debate at the moment about whether it's okay to kill them if they request it.)

    39. Re:Choice between what? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      A fetus is as much a human being as a schoolchild is a valuable member of the workforce. It could be at some point in the future, but only after additional investment in it.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    40. Re:Choice between what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The State has the right to execute anyone. That's why cops have guns, among other things. Individuals also have the right to kill people, although generally this is restrained and delegated to armed forces / police. It is very much frowned upon to take life except when your own is threatened, but anything that cannot be taken from you, you have a natural right to. We can hardly keep people from killing each other in maximum security prisons, so the right to violence is pretty well established.

      I would compromise though and suggest that abortion only be the purview of state agents, provided that there were no non-medical conditions for refusing to perform the procedure. I am just as okay with the State killing a person as I am with you killing a person -- as long as it is lawful, go ahead. And as far as the law goes...

      All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

      Hmmm....I can see how that one would be tricky to parse...

    41. Re:Choice between what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lets hope society doesn't move the bar and define your humanity based on whether or not you can contribute to the workforce (your analogy). If you've been keeping track you'd know that it's likely millions of people will no longer be able to contribute shortly due to rapid advances in automation.

      It's always easy to define some other group of people that aren't in your group as non-human. Historically speaking think: people with dark skin (slaves from Africa), people from Asia.

    42. Re:Choice between what? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      The usual arguments against nanny state concentrate on what the state wishes to do to you

      Which means it fits the description perfectly unless you want to argue that women are not citizens. I use the term because the pricks that want lots of red tape in the bedroom scream "nanny state" over lesser amounts of red tape over financial crime etc.

      So, the abortion debate is not about "nanny state", nor is it about "choice" or "life". It is about whether the fetus is a human.

      No, it normally rejects medical opinions, ties in with the debate on contraception and a pile of other things and is really just a stalking horse for having morality laws into the criminal code. It's our little watered down copy of Sharia law at home.
      We've already had drug addicts jailed for "murder" of their fetus based on slightly increased risk of miscarriage - how long before smokers and drinkers get jailed too? It's about punishing "scarlet women" as if we were in Iran.

    43. Re:Choice between what? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      It is about whether the fetus is a human.

      That change of definition is very problematic in areas you are unlikely to have considered. Do you want every miscarriage to result in a murder investigation? It's already happened with people some legislators consider not fit to be part of society, such as intermittent illegal drug users.


      I find a bit odd that those who call themselves "conservative" have embraced a radical new idea of when a human life begins instead of the age old definition of it being at birth.



      What we should be discussing (or someone else - the young rich whiteboy basement dweller demographic doesn't see a lot of what is going on in the world and that seems to be most of this site for the last few years), is the fetus, the thing itself, instead of trying to muddy the waters with word games. I don't have an answer but I hate that some of those who also don't have an answer are forcing their shit on others either with online bullying as mentioned by the article (spamming with propaganda) or by laws forcing a whole lot of regulations into the bedroom.

    44. Re:Choice between what? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      This kind of moderation by conservative asshats is the cancer that is slowly killing Slashdot.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    45. Re:Choice between what? by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      No one forced you to bone her.

  18. EVERY LIFE IS SACRED! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Until you're born... And then fuck you...

    1. Re: EVERY LIFE IS SACRED! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, you're making me feel that about you...

  19. Stop the legislation. Fix the underlying tech! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    We don't need laws regulating what companies can and can't do. What we need are technological means of protecting ourselves. It might start by people saying no to facebook and the tech world working on and getting funding for developing privacy friendly solutions: Adapting phones and browsers to inhibit tracking and spying functionality would be a great start. That would mean funding further research into fingerprinting techniques and making it burdensome for end-users to accidentally decloak themselves. Tor is a great start to this end, but there is a a heck of a lot more that needs to be done to protect an ignorant and complacent world.

    We have some resemblance of starts to solutions. From Zero Coin which can potentially add anonymity (and not just psudo-anonymous via mixes) to BitCoin and other altcoins to LibreCMC, Replicant, and Trisquel (operating systems for different types of devices which aren't dependent on proprietary pieces of software where spying components are often hidden). But we do need to take it farther to the underlying technology at a hardware level. We need to antagonize Intel and AMD to get rid of proprietary components which are known to contain potentially privacy-invasive technology (remove control functionality is advertised by these companies). Examples of this include the Intel Management Engine Firmware and proprietary bootloaders (most cell phones, routers, and similar devices). Then we also need to fight the FCC on the wifi front. Linksys didn't solve the problem and we are dependant on *proprietary software* in an "open source" system which is *in fact* inhibiting features like mesh networking and packet injection being added to these components completely destroying the core value in loading these alternative freedom-potentially-respecting operating systems.

  20. You oppose offering help? Promote abortion? Honest by raymorris · · Score: 1, Insightful

    > based on an opposing ideology

    Crisis Pregnancy Centers offer help to young and struggling moms-to-be, such as free diapers and baby products, classes on parenting, and a lot of encouragement and support - being a young single mom is hard, but with help you can do it.

    Certainly some Crisis Pregnancy Center volunteers are aware that if no assistance and support were offered, if these young women felt that they had to do it all alone, some would get abortions. Some may feel that abortion is similar to murder. Many are people who have themselves gone through the challenges of parenting , often as a single parent, and want to be of help to other people who are doing the same now.

    You say there is an "opposing idealogy". There is an idealogy which opposes offering help and encouragement to people who are facing difficult challenges? An ideology which opposes educating young moms about child nutrition, how to calm a crying child, and how to maintain a healthly social network when you're a new parent? An ideology which wants young women to think that they ARE alone and that abortion is the only option?

    Is that YOUR ideology? If so, you've been unusually honest, probably unintentionally.

  21. Re:You oppose offering help? Promote abortion? Hon by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 2

    It goes beyond "ideology". Spreading misinformation and lying to patients about made-up bullshit like fetal pain and post-abortion suicide is just fraud and harassment.

  22. The Day of Reckoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is excellent. There should be more of this. It will make people angry. Perhaps the Angry People will begin to appreciate what privacy means once it is taken from them. Perhaps. We can only hope. More offensive ad tracking, please! More, more, more, I don't use all this nonsense on MY phone anyway! More, please! How about an Ashley Madison Tracker? To hell with the password database, just a little location analytics on that phone ought to do the trick!

  23. Moral relativity by Maxx169 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Is it wrong to target a problem drinker with ads for AA? How about targeting problem drinkers with free booze? What about targeting young mothers with ads for 'family planning' services, or as the article suggests pregnant women with 'pro-life' services? I'm sure there is a line there somewhere. Morality is a funny, fuzzy deeply personal thing... and I guess the line will vary from person to person.

    Disclaimer: I am very strongly pro-choice (where choice is the right for a woman to seek an abortion if she wants).

    1. Re:Moral relativity by Macdude · · Score: 1

      The problem is if you start target me with ads for AA just because I bought a bottle of Scotch. You're defaming me by implying that I'm an alcoholic.

      If I was pregnant woman and suddenly started getting anti-choice ads I'd be pissed, either I'm not planning on having an abortion in which case your ads are just harassing me or I'm planning on having an abortion and you're butting into my private life.

      --
      "Grab them by the pussy" -- President of the United States of America
    2. Re:Moral relativity by Bathroom+Humor · · Score: 1

      I think this is definitely different from normal product/service based ads, in that trying to talk to a stranger on a random webpage about something as private and life-altering as abortion is different from trying to sell them a new pair of shoes on that same page, or trying to convince horny guys that you can grow their dicks with magic bullshit pills while they are visiting a pornographic website. Context matters.

    3. Re:Moral relativity by Maxx169 · · Score: 1

      I tend to agree with you (but as I said before, morality is subjective), a more interesting question is where the line should be drawn? Is it OK to target 'depressed' people with anti-depressant pharmaceuticals?

      Alright, I'm just bitter because Facebook keeps showing me ads for some rehab center in Thailand (seriously). Dicks!

  24. Because you can be anti-abortion & pro choice by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    but that's a mighty fine right wing talking point you've got there. It's also a pretty old one. Now the real question is: are you conscientiously aware that you're repeating it or did the political engine that created the abortion issue as a means of driving a wedge between working class voters manage to sneak it in there as intended?

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  25. It's orders of magintude by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    because nobody has ever threatened lives and even carried through on those threats because of the type of soap I buy.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  26. Plenty of people want to adopt by Bruce66423 · · Score: 1

    IF there was a shortage of parents wanting to adopt, then I would agree that this is a reasonable requirement. Since the reality is that people go to extraordinary lengths including travelling abroad, it is clear that there is no shortage.

    1. Re:Plenty of people want to adopt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is a shortage of parents wanting to adopt, but not everyone who wants to adopt gets to. They travel abroad either because they can't adopt legally or because they want more options to pick from.
      Interestingly enough it seems like a lot of pro-lifers also don't want gay couples to adopt.

    2. Re:Plenty of people want to adopt by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

      The problem is that most people want to adopt want to adopt an infant while the majority of the children looking for a home are older. So the people go abroad looking for an infant in order to get their "perfect" child while the older children here get shuffled around from foster home to foster home.

  27. Willfully obtuse by Uberbah · · Score: 1

    objectively this is no more creepy or unethical than anything else in the advertising industry

    Because having an abortion is on the same level as buying ethernet cables or looking up used car ratings? Methinks not.

  28. If men could get pregnant by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    I don't remember what comedian said it, but it's quite true, if men could get pregnant, you'd have a drive-through abortion clinic in every WalMart. And don't forget to have your membership card stamped, for with every tenth you get a pack of condoms for free!

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:If men could get pregnant by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      First guess sounds like something George Carlin would have said, and yes I do remember hearing some comedian say that back in the 90s as well.

      --
      Time to offend someone
  29. This is about privacy NOT about abortion by houghi · · Score: 2

    The abortion part is clickbait. What this is about is if privacy laws should be stricter in the US. The information of people was sold and is used. In Europe this is not allowed. From somebody who lives in Europe, this could be a bit stricter. So how does it work in Europe?

    So I worked for CompanyA who had clients (companies) that had customers (people). They decided to close and sell the product portofolio to CompanyB. The customers would still be able to keep the identical product with the same name and what not.
    As we sold the product and not the customer, we were not allwed to just send a file with everything to CompanyB and have it automated. What we did was
    1) Send a letter that we were going to stop
    2) Inform them that if they want, they can cancel
    3) If they did not cancel, they would be contacted by CompanyB
    4) CompanyB (where I work now) send a letter to the customer saying they would now be dealing with the product
    5) The customer needed to sign a new contract
    6) All contracts needed to be verified and treated as if they were a new customer (because in reality they were)

    The period of transfer CompanyA asked sometimes info about customers that, even while available, we were not allowed to give.

    For me personaly this was nice, as I was working for CompanyA while being paid by CompanyB.

    Other things mean that if your spouse calls for info, we are not allowed to give it, unless it is explicitely allowed. Mind you, most companies do not honor that last one.

    Direct marketing to people is very restricted. It is allowed to customers you have a business relation with (e.g. people who bought something from you) but not to others. So no buying of data and sending then mail or what not.

    If people ask to stop sending stuff, you better agree with that.

    To me the privacy laws are not going far enough, but that is just a personal opinion.

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    1. Re:This is about privacy NOT about abortion by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 1

      The abortion part is clickbait. What this is about is if privacy laws should be stricter in the US.

      Thank you for pointing out what should be obvious.
      Why isn't it obvious?

      Because many, or actually most of the people who post to /. have what I would call "slashdotitis". Slashdotitis is a commonly occurring degenerative disorder whereby someone will blabber endlessly in a post about completely idiotic shit without even "grokking" WTF the point of the parent, linked article is. Usually the blabbering occurs about a "hot button" issue like gun control, abortion, environmental regulations, climate change, etc; you know, those fun "culture war" topics that people watch Fox News to get updates on...

      You're right, this isn't about abortion. It never was, and people who waste their time arguing over that are ridiculous, especially here, where you would(but we don't) expect a bit of a higher standard when it comes to assessing the underlying points of an article.

      As you say, this has EVERYTHING to do with privacy laws, and how personal data via phones and computers is used against the public.

      --
      We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
  30. More people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just what this planet needs it more people, especially stupid ones.

  31. Abortion is the worst atrocity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    LOL at "reproductive rights".
    Let's start at the beginning: how exactly are hundreds of thousands of supposedly intelligent women becoming pregnant 'by accident' every year, in the UK alone? Haven't they heard of contraceptives? Why aren't their male partners wearing condoms?
    Don't tell me. "Condoms fail". Well actually, condoms never fail - it's their USERS that fail to use them, and then LIE about them 'breaking'. Do you see the tests they perform on condoms when they are manufactured? They are blown up like a balloon, to test for holes and flaws in the material. There are NO scientific tests of condoms being used, which show them 'breaking'. All we have are ANECDOTAL reports from users, who have a vested interest in LYING about them 'breaking', when actually they didn't actually use a condom that time.
    So what's the real issue? What's really going on? Well, the real issue is that too many women are sleeping with men who don't find them sufficiently attractive to maintain an erection while putting a condom on, or who don't feel sufficiently comfortable with them to maintain an erection while putting a condom on. Both parties feel ashamed of this fact - the man because he thinks others will doubt his virility, and the woman because she thinks others (including her partner) doubt her attractiveness.

    These are the REAL reasons there are so many abortions each year, let alone the fact that lots of women try to trick men into marriage (or just staying with them) by getting pregnant 'by accident' ("Oh, I forgot to take the pill"), and it doesn't work, and the man doesn't want to stay with her, so she has to have an abortion.

    Abortion is the worst atrocity imaginable, and it happens because of incredibly selfish people.

    Furthermore, we can work out scientifically that women who have had an abortion are far more likely to have STDs than women who haven't. Women who sleep with men who don't wear condoms are obviously far more likely to have STDs than women who refuse to sleep with men who don't wear condoms, and those men will also most likely have slept with other women, without wearing a condom too. Abortion should be illegal because too many women are using it as a form of birth control, because for some reason they seem to be incapable of finding a decent man who wouldn't dream of sleeping with anybody without wearing a condom (unless they were deliberately trying for a baby).

    And of course, the pro abortion industry don't want you to see what the unborn baby IS. They want to hide all mention of the word 'baby', so they use the scientific term 'fetus'. Gee... I wonder why?

    1. Re:Abortion is the worst atrocity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Well actually, condoms never fail"

      They fail. I've correctly worn too many to count and had two breakages (water based lubricant, condom package was intact). Like any device ever made by man, there is a certain percentage of defects.

      "condoms rarely fail" is more accurate.

  32. Abortion is wrong and should be criminalized. by Theovon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The inflammatory title is meant to get attention. However, I also believe it’s true (for most cases).

    We find it distasteful to force arbitary morals onto people or bombard them with propaganda and ads. Privacy violations are wrong too, and that’s what this article is really about. But the abortion issue itself is something that can be looked at objectively. And I want to understand how some people can claim to value human life on the one hand and then blithely throw it awas on the other hand.

    There are situations where abortions are medically necessary (like when the mother’s life is threatened by the pregnancy), and there are some gray areas when it comes to serious developmental defects that are often terminal anyway. But a lot of the time, abortion is used as retroactive contraception. People with no self-control or forward planning ability have sex, and pregnancy happens. There are lots of ways to prevent pregnancy in the first place, not the least of which is to find a partner of the same sex, which is something we honestly need to push our society into taking advantage of more.

    But hey, let’s just terminate human life willy-nilly because it’s fucking convenient for us! As someone who is liberal about most things, I see abortion (most of the time) as a massive shirking of personal responsibility. CHOICES have consequences, and you should have to deal with them and not force others to pay for your mistakes or, say, murder someone over it.

    This is what I really don’t get about the “pro choice” people. A human fetus does indeed have an underdeveloped nervous system, so killing it is not the same as torture. At the same time, you can also kill adults painlessly, yet we don’t have clinics where you can take your office enemies to have them euthanized. A human fetus is definitely alive, and it’s definitely human. So why do people make some arbitrary distinction that because it hasn’t been BORN yet, it’s okay to murder it? (I’m using the word “murder” because I don’t want to hide behind euphamisms. Deal with it. Abortion is killing someone who is not threatening your life, which makes it at least manslaughter.)

    Hey, maybe you want to live in a society ruled by social darwinism, where there’s are no rules against killing people. Most slashdotters would have been killed by now by bullies in highschool in that case, so you should appreciate the systems of laws and morals that protect you. I don’t care if you’re devoutly religious or an atheist, we have solid grounds for human societies to have ethics. And we as humans have decided that killing your fellow humans is wrong. Interestingly, I find atheists to often have a stronger sense of morality, because they don’t have religious fervor to tell them when it’s okay to break their own rules to force someone else to live by their bizarre and arbitrary religious tennets. So just to be clear, this is not a religious issue.

    Indeed, putting stupid religions aside, most people find murder to be objectively wrong. We value human life, instinctively, unless we’re psychopaths. It doesn’t matter if Christians tell you murder is wrong because Christians have been known to murder in the name of their God. The same is true of Muslims. When wars are fought and terrorists bomb airports, the rest of the world stands aghast at the needless loss of human life over stupid idiological issues.

    So don’t distort the abortion issue into a right vs. left thing or a stupid religious issue. 99% of religion is bullshit, and we don't get the idea of murder being wrong from religion.

    Often single mothers are vilified, especially if they’re in high school. (Although most abortions, I think, are not had by high school girls.) And the fathers frequently skip town or deny responsibility. A girl who has a baby before she can finish her college degree is typically screwed in more ways th

    1. Re:Abortion is wrong and should be criminalized. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are lots of ways to prevent pregnancy in the first place, not the least of which is to find a partner of the same sex, which is something we honestly need to push our society into taking advantage of more.

      It wasn't OK when the norm was to push homosexuals into having heterosexual relationships and it would be equally wrong to push heterosexuals into having homosexual relationships.

      Unless you are talking about more lesbians, get on that right away.

    2. Re:Abortion is wrong and should be criminalized. by Theovon · · Score: 1

      Nobody said anything about pushing anyone into any relationships they don't want. And of course, gay men have to be especially careful about STIs. All I'm saying is that there is a range of strategies for having sex while avoiding pregnancy.

    3. Re:Abortion is wrong and should be criminalized. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cancer is definitely alive and definitely human. It doesn't mean it has to live.

      More to the point, the fetus is not a person because it cannot survive on its own. It needs the host to survive, and you cannot force someone to give blood and ruin their organs for any reason. Growing a fetus has an impact on the woman's body and no one should be forced into indentured servitude for 9 months just because you feel they should grow their clump of cells to maturity.

  33. Re:You oppose offering help? Promote abortion? Hon by Livius · · Score: 1

    Spreading misinformation and lying

    So... the *same* as the rest of the advertising industry.

  34. Bad stuff used for good things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Telling them about the consequences is only fair. One decision and then you need to live with the guilt for a whole life. Yeah, now you're thinking its the right choice, but will you in a few years? Or will you think "only because i wanted more free time i prevented a life"?

  35. Re:Because you can be anti-abortion & pro choi by rworne · · Score: 1

    Nothing political about it. How can a standard medical term for a medical procedure be considered political speak?

    It only seems political to you because "pro-abortion" sounds bad compared to "pro-choice" simply because people tend to know what the procedure does. So why duck the truth and paint it in colorful language if you are proud of your political stance?

    The center to the argument is not whether women have the right to reproductive freedom (there's another one of those feel-good terms). The anti-abortion crowd (well, most of it) isn't there protesting sex education, sterilization, condoms, HPV vaccinations, v.d. and fertility treatments. They are there protesting abortions (including some caused by birth control pills that prevent implantation after fertilization). If you remove abortion from the list of services, the only people left protesting would be the uber-religious types who believe, for example, that HPV vaccinations give a license to premarital sex and sin.

    --
    I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit
  36. Labels by dfm3 · · Score: 1

    I'm pro-choice and anti-abortion. And that's not a contradiction.

    The issue that GP had was not with the terms themselves, but with the inflammatory undertones that have been attached to them. Much like how the term "liberal" is now used as an insult in conservative circles. Sure the term may be an accurate description of someone, and have a specific meaning, but it's been given another meaning in popular discourse that's intended to be inflammatory.

  37. Re:You oppose offering help? Promote abortion? Hon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Please tell this the people, who lost their loved ones because of this reason. Would you? No? Then don't tell here. Big mouth, but if you're in the situation, you would be desperate as well.

  38. It's called pro-life, not "anti-choice." by BlueKitties · · Score: 1, Insightful

    This is semantic manipulation on the part of pro-choice groups. The term is pro-life, not anti-choice, anti-abortion. Otherwise, we may well refer to pro-choice as "anti-life, pro-murder," etc. It was actually documented by Steven Pinker that the Democratic party has hired linguists to shape their rhetoric using conceptual semantics, of which this is a manifestation.

    --
    "Sorrow is better than laughter, for by sadness of face the heart is made glad." [Ecclesiastes 7:3]
    1. Re:It's called pro-life, not "anti-choice." by gameboyhippo · · Score: 2

      I think this is the strength of the Democratic Party and how they are able to fool so many young people today with their Orwellian tactics.

  39. Re:You oppose offering help? Promote abortion? Hon by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 2

    Some may feel that abortion is similar to murder.

    those women are the women who never even consider getting abortions.

    You say there is an "opposing idealogy". There is an idealogy which opposes offering help and encouragement to people who are facing difficult challenges?

    yes, there is. have you see what protesters write on their signs at abortion clinics? they don't right, "we want to help you," they write shit like, "murdering whores burn in hell" which i feel is exceptionally unhelpful.

    Is that YOUR ideology? If so, you've been unusually honest, probably unintentionally.

    you've taken a benign comment and attacked me out of personal zeal for your point of view. i hope you can learn some self-control because the world does not need more people lashing out emotionally.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
  40. Bogus contradiction vs. death penalty by mi · · Score: 1

    There's also a certain irony that those who cry "murder" are living in a country with a death penalty.

    "Murder" is a very specific kind of killing — executing a lawfully-condemned prisoner does not qualify.

    Plenty of crimes do deserve death-penalty — the only valid argument against it can be based on the imperfections of the justice systems. Because, unlike a prison-sentence, death penalty is irreversible — the wrongfully accused can not be compensated upon exoneration.

    But the fetus has not committed any crimes. So, if it is a human being, then it is wrong to deliberately kill it.

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re: Bogus contradiction vs. death penalty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you know what's listed as "cause of death" on the death certificate of an executed person? "Homicide".

    2. Re:Bogus contradiction vs. death penalty by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Of course all bets are off during wartime.

      lawfully-condemned

      Determined by the whims of the emperor, or the populace, makes no difference, aside from the degree of efficiency.

      the only valid argument against it can be based on the imperfections of the justice systems.

      Yes, that is the fatal flaw, and a good enough reason to abolish the practice. The other simple fact is that no matter how you want to rationalize your vengeance and thirst for blood, whether by cave drawings or Shakespearean prose, killing an unarmed caged man that is not an immediate threat is murder. The death penalty is as heinous as any other human atrocity, made even worse by popular approval, your personal point of view, or what is considered "lawful", notwithstanding.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    3. Re:Bogus contradiction vs. death penalty by damn_registrars · · Score: 1

      Plenty of crimes do deserve death-penalty - the only valid argument against it can be based on the imperfections of the justice systems.

      There is also the argument of whether or not you believe in corrections and rehabilitations. Nobody has ever been corrected or rehabilitated by being killed. It doesn't matter how horrific the crime, they did not become a better person as a result of being killed in retaliation for their crime. Just because you absolutely took away their ability to ever commit another crime again does not mean you did anything to actually help them.

      If you are comfortable with the anti-correction and anti-rehabilitation stance that our penal system has taken on, then that is your decision. I however would much rather we work on making criminals into functional and valuable members of society. Even more so I would rather we work on helping these people before they become criminals so we don't have to deal with these problems later. Unfortunately that seems to be a very minority opinion in this country - or at least an opinion that is vastly unpopular amongst those who are able to pull the levers of power.

      --
      Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    4. Re:Bogus contradiction vs. death penalty by mi · · Score: 1

      There is also the argument of whether or not you believe in corrections and rehabilitations.

      I do believe, that some people may be rehabilitated. However, the purpose of the justice system is not solely that.

      If you are comfortable with the anti-correction and anti-rehabilitation stance that our penal system has taken

      Bzzz! Wrong. Killing the uncorrectable is not "anti-correction". Nice try, but fail. Good example, however, of word-munging and term-substitution. Thanks!

      I however would much rather we work on making criminals into functional and valuable members of society

      Such work would indeed be most desirable, if it had any reasonable promise in it. For another example, I'd very much humans could fly. Unfortunately, our bodies do not allow for it and I'm going to dismiss your whining about rehabilitating murderers with the same amused disdain I have for people flapping their hands trying to rise into the air — even if they denounce me as "anti-flying" over it.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    5. Re:Bogus contradiction vs. death penalty by damn_registrars · · Score: 1

      There is also the argument of whether or not you believe in corrections and rehabilitations.

      I do believe, that some people may be rehabilitated. However, the purpose of the justice system is not solely that.

      The current system in its current configuration cares almost not at all about rehabilitation. The current system focuses on the punishment, regardless of the offense.

      Killing the uncorrectable is not "anti-correction".

      Who gets to determine who is "uncorrectable"? In the context of the death penalty that you seem to be squarely in support of, when is the last time that the judge or jury had been tasked with determining how "correctable" the convicted is? That pretty almost never comes up in the trial - especially in the sentencing phase. Capital trials almost never have any interest in showing whether or not the person on trial has any capacity for rehabilitation.

      I however would much rather we work on making criminals into functional and valuable members of society

      Such work would indeed be most desirable, if it had any reasonable promise in it.

      Why did you wait that long to admit that you have no belief in rehabilitation? Granted it was strongly implied in your earlier statements but here you finally came out and fully said it. I can't make you believe in rehabilitation. You can choose to hold on to your belief structure that some good comes from execution, in spite of the mountains of evidence to the contrary. But when you then follow up with

      For another example, I'd very much humans could fly. Unfortunately, our bodies do not allow for it and I'm going to dismiss your whining about rehabilitating murderers with the same amused disdain I have for people flapping their hands trying to rise into the air

      You just demonstrate that you made up your mind on the matter long ago and have no interest in discussing the mater. Why did you even hit reply?

      --
      Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
  41. Gradual vs. "clear bright line" by mi · · Score: 1

    At some point one of them would be a recognizable human being that you would happily grant rights to, and your genetic codes would be compatible enough for reproduction. [...] There is no definite point

    I'm used to opponents contradicting themselves, but usually it takes them longer to complete the circle. Congratulations!

    Just the same way as there is no clear point at which a human egg becomes a human being.

    Conception? Birth? Cutting of umbilical cord? First sound made? First tooth? Death of the father (or explicit emancipation) — as in ancient Rome? These are all "clear bright lines", that lawyers love so much.

    All we can do it set some kind of limit we are somewhat happy with, erring on the side of caution.

    Yep, and that is, how it is usually done.

    Just when a blob of cells becomes a human being is the subject of the debate. That it is wrong to kill it once it happens is uncontroversial and there is nothing wrong in opposing any "choice", where such killing is an option.

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  42. Indeed by Bruce66423 · · Score: 1

    However this debate is about the existence or otherwise of options if an abortion doesn't occur. By definition this generates an unwanted infant, which is the wanted type.

    I've heard the claim that pro-lifers should do more, and in this context it's clear that it's a false argument. There's a much more complex debate as well about providing ongoing quality of life for the poor, but that's not strictly relevant given the adoption option.

  43. Re:You oppose offering help? Promote abortion? Hon by deadwill69 · · Score: 2

    This is a farce and you know it. After growing up in one of these religious families, protesting, and volunteering for five years at one of these centers, these organization are fooling you. It is an emotional draw to influence political opinion and nothing else. These centers provide vague and borderline false information to these struggling you children who generally get into this situation because nobody ever told them about how things work. Sorry. Abstinence works when it can be enforce or theory, but not in real life. So, you give them some diapers and some formula. That's going to help a lot. What's this young mom going to do in 2 weeks when she has to go back to work. She already dropped out of school for the semester. You going to provide child care? Health care? I think not. That's when we dump them on the welfare rolls and then call them worthless because they can't afford the time to better themselves because we lied to them about some personal feel good agenda. We never stop to think of how the consequences truly affect things. Now we've just caused a promising you life to be relegated to some second rate citizen that we scoff at because they got pregnant. Hypocritical much?

  44. Read it all by dbIII · · Score: 1
    Read it all - “with the intention of preserving the child’s life” is the part that is really fucked up instead of the doctor being able to make an informed choice over whether to save the mother, the child, or both if they can.

    But the nerve, right? Fuck that little sack of cells. Fuck their life. The ONLY important person in this situation is the mother. Who cares if she's seeking abortion at 24 weeks or 9 months (full term - and this does happen)? It's still a little non-human who should shut-up and die. (That's sarcasm, in case you couldn't tell with your stunted sense of morality).

    You fail to understand that the law pushed the exact reverse of that - as in fuck the mother, let her die, just save the baby because The State wants it that way. In my opinion having either way mandated by law is really fucked up. Let the medical staff do what they can and get the government out if the way. Putting the choice of who is to live or die in that situation in a law is ridiculous and dangerous micromanagement.

    1. Re:Read it all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Bill is available to read here:

      http://www.legislation.vic.gov...

      In regards to the mother and birth after 24 weeks it says:

      "If there is a substantial risk of death or serious and permanent physical impairment to a woman more than 24 weeks pregnant or to her preborn child, a registered medical practitioner may perform a premature delivery in a hospital that has neonatal care facilities with the intention of preserving the child's life and for the purpose of protecting the child or the woman, or both, from a substantial risk of death or serious physical impairment."

      Please note it says for the purpose of protecting the child or the woman, or both, from a substantial risk of death or serious physical impairment.

      A specific stated purpose is to protect the mother from harm.

      The next section of the Bill is in reference to a neonate, i.e. a child who has been born and is less than 4 weeks old. In this case the Bill requires the medical practitioner to try and keep the child alive once it's born.

      It reads:

      "must take all reasonable steps to ensure that the child is provided with appropriate neonatal care to preserve the child's life."

      This is to prevent a medical practitioner from delivering the child and then denying it medical care so it will purposely die post birth (a sneaky way of achieving an abortion).

      "Holistic", in the medical world, means providing care for physical, mental and social aspects of the patients life.

      I just had a quick look at that Crikey article. Poor reporting. You should unsubscribe.

      I hope that clears things up for everyone.

  45. It didn't happen, did it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... 1997-era slashdot server reboot in 5 . . . 4 . . .

    Slashdot just ain't the Slashdot of yore

    Yawn !!

  46. Can people be "aborted" post-birth? by mi · · Score: 1

    A fetus is as much a human being as a schoolchild is a valuable member of the workforce. It could be at some point in the future, but only after additional investment in it.

    By this logic, the permanently incapacitated are no longer humans either. Are they?

    But, stipulating the equality between a fetus and a young child, are you saying, it should not be a crime (or less of a crime) to kill a schoolgirl, than an adult?

    And that anyone seeking to unquestionably ban killings of schoolchildren, is "anti-choice"?

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.