Samsung: Don't install Windows 10 (theregister.co.uk)

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Samsung: Don't install Windows 10 (theregister.co.uk)

Posted by msmash on Wednesday June 1, 2016 @03:10AM from the curious-case-of-Windows-10-updates dept.

An anonymous reader shares an article on The Register: Samsung is advising customers against succumbing to Microsoft's nagging and installing Windows 10. The consumer electronics giant's support staff have admitted drivers for its PCs still don't work with Microsoft's newest operating system and told customers they should simply not make the upgrade. That's nearly a year after Microsoft released Windows 10 and with a month to go until its successor -- Windows 10 Anniversary Update -- lands. Samsung's customers have complained repeatedly during the last 12 months of being either unable to install Microsoft's operating system on their machines or Windows 10 not working properly with components if they do succeed. However, with the one-year anniversary fast approaching it seems neither of these tech giants have succeeded in solving these persistent problems.

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Problem here seems to be Samsung? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-01 03:13 · Score: 3, Insightful

Maybe if they weren't so far up Cook's ass, they'd take the time to write some new drivers. Or even write older drivers to spec, since they should work with Windows 10 too.
1. Re:Problem here seems to be Samsung? by Austerity+Empowers · 2016-06-01 04:53 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Maybe if they weren't so far up Cook's ass, they'd take the time to write some new drivers. Or even write older drivers to spec, since they should work with Windows 10 too.
  In what way is Samsung up Cook's ass? I assume we're talking about Tim Cook, CEO of Apple, competitor to Samsung on many things including phones, tablets, laptops and PCs, and supplier on other things (SSDs, RAM).
  Samsung isn't going to be writing drivers for Broadcom chips, only Broadcom can do that. No doubt Broadcom would like to be paid for it, since they have recently exited the 802.11 business (http://www.macrumors.com/2016/03/18/apple-supplier-broadcom-wi-fi-chip-business/), they probably have let most of that staff go or re-org'd them on to something else. I'm sure that BCM is just one component lacking driver support, but outside of SSDs which don't usually need drivers, it is unclear that Samsung is on the hook to write any drivers at all, but would have to pay someone else to do it, and they don't want to because you've already spent that money and what's in it for them exactly?
  This is why linux people get so bent out of shape over proprietary drivers being a blight. Companies protect those secrets until one day they disappear into the mist, leaving us all holding the bag.
2. Re:Problem here seems to be Samsung? by houstonbofh · 2016-06-01 05:56 · Score: 1
  
  Or it could be that they do not want to share the spying and add revenue with other companies. That is THEIR market now! :)
3. Re:Problem here seems to be Samsung? by Ravaldy · 2016-06-01 06:48 · Score: 2
  
  it is unclear that Samsung is on the hook to write any drivers at all
  How do you figure? The users aren't the ones who picked the chipset and put it into their hardware. Car companies have the same challenges and they don't point fingers at the supplier, instead they resolve the problem internally or work with another supplier to achieve the required results.
  I don't know that Samsung falls in this category but I've often seen H/W manufacturers put products on the market, undercutting the competition and then not accounting for the need to keep some $$ for ongoing support (OCZ, Saphire, Retail+...). For that reason I put the fault on the company that puts out the product. It's for them to setup deals with lasting support (within reason).
  
  This is why linux people get so bent out of shape over proprietary drivers being a blight
  No, they get bent out of shape because they can't run their crap at $0 cost. The corporate Linux techs get Linux certified hardware which comes with open source drivers. Last I checked Broadcom and Realtek both provide open source versions of their drivers.
4. Re:Problem here seems to be Samsung? by Mr.+Droopy+Drawers · 2016-06-01 07:08 · Score: 1
  
  I cite Ford Sync as a counter-example of Car companies handling this internally. 2012 Fusions still have problems and Ford will not stand behind fixing the issues -- even while they were in warranty. Standard answer, Disconnect your battery, leave off for 15 minutes, reconnect.
  Still, it's Samsung's fault just like Ford's 3rd party "entertainment system" is their fault. The company that packaged it is who should fix the issue.
  
  --
  To Copy from One is Plagiarism; To Copy from Many is Research.
5. Re:Problem here seems to be Samsung? by Darinbob · 2016-06-01 07:28 · Score: 1
  
  Broadcom is known for being very secretive about its chips and drivers. Half of a driver development I did for one chip was spent getting the legal agreements in place and signed.
6. Re:Problem here seems to be Samsung? by Harlequin80 · 2016-06-01 10:51 · Score: 1
  
  That is an interesting argument you're putting forward here. You are saying that a hardware manufacturer should be supporting their hardware past their end of life for a piece of software that didn't exist when they built the hardware and for which it was never designed for. On top of this the hardware continues to work fine with the software for which it was originally written.
  And we aren't talking about an iterative update here. I could understand an argument around Win7 to Win7 SP1. But Windows 10 is a totally different system.
7. Re: Problem here seems to be Samsung? by MoaDweeb · 2016-06-01 11:28 · Score: 1
  
  Windows has 90%+ of all desktops etc. what are you realistically going to replace it with, Linux?
  And who provides the support for that for large scale deployments?
  
  It doesn't matter if you/ me/ everybody on /. personally dislike Windows, it is here and it is the norm. Deal.
  
  --
  New Zealanders are well balanced with a chip on each shoulder. One represents Australia, the other the rest of the world
8. Re:Problem here seems to be Samsung? by TheReaperD · 2016-06-02 02:09 · Score: 1
  
  Or the more obvious answer: Once they've gotten your money, they no longer give a shit.
  
  --
  "Be particularly skeptical when presented with evidence confirming what you already believe." -
9. Re:Problem here seems to be Samsung? by Ravaldy · 2016-06-02 04:47 · Score: 1
  
  2012 Fusions still have problems and Ford will not stand behind fixing the issues
  
  Yes but the point is it's their problem. Whether their solution is valid or not is how you judge the company's after sales service. When the explorer had tire issues they handled it, not Firestone. Ford themselves went to Firestone after and got compensation.
  
  Still, it's Samsung's fault just like Ford's 3rd party "entertainment system" is their fault. The company that packaged it is who should fix the issue.
  Exactly. They picked the supplier, not the customer.
10. Re:Problem here seems to be Samsung? by Ravaldy · 2016-06-02 04:49 · Score: 1
  
  How does that change anything? Samsung picked them so it's their responsibility to deal with the supplier to satisfy their customers. Otherwise they can choose to do nothing and hope for repeat business.
11. Re:Problem here seems to be Samsung? by Ravaldy · 2016-06-02 05:34 · Score: 1
  
  You are saying that a hardware manufacturer should be supporting their hardware past their end of life for a piece of software that didn't exist when they built the hardware and for which it was never designed for
  Although I can easily side with you and I want to, there is an expectation from customers to have the ability to perform at least one OS upgrade. This expectation stems from the fact that most PC hardware appears to be upgradable 2 OS generations. ASUS, HP, Dell have all displayed this over and over again. If Samsung wants to deal with the PC market the same way they do their mobile market they may drive themselves out of the market.
12. Re: Problem here seems to be Samsung? by armanox · 2016-06-02 14:59 · Score: 1
  
  Red Hat would be more then happy to sell you support for Linux on your desktops, like they already do for the servers.
  
  --
  I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
13. Re: Problem here seems to be Samsung? by beastofburdon · 2016-06-03 05:12 · Score: 1
  
  RedHat, Canonical, SuseEnterprise, and several more companies that make their own distros provide full-scale paid support options for anybody who wants it.
  
  You are just stupid or willfully ignorant, likely both.
Which one to laugh at more? by jeffb+(2.718) · 2016-06-01 03:14 · Score: 5, Insightful

In this case, I think it's gotta be Samsung. Still no drivers after a year? Seriously?
1. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by ledow · 2016-06-01 03:17 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Still no Windows 10 drivers after a year from release, for a cheap model of laptop they might have pushed out 5-7 years ago, which was only certified for Windows 7? Yeah, not really surprising.
  There are a LOT of manufacturer's out there committing exactly that "crime". It's got nothing to do with laziness - hell, in that time the manufacturer could have gone bankrupt - but it's got everything to do with the manufacturer just saying "that's an old chipset, we don't have 10 drivers. But for $50k...." and Samsung telling them to stick it up their bottom.
2. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by xxxJonBoyxxx · 2016-06-01 03:20 · Score: 1
  
  This. I've been happily upgrading to Windows 10 on all kinds of shitbox hardware lying around the house (especially laptops I use for, er, "on-demand" streaming on far-flung TVs). To have a hardware vendor this unprepared for a shipping OS after the fact tells you that Samsung isn't a real hardware vendor.
3. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by ArchieBunker · 2016-06-01 03:25 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  The reason is simple. You don't make money writing drivers for hardware you've already sold.
  
  --
  Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
4. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by MobyDisk · 2016-06-01 03:25 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  This is a case of a bad headline and summary. The article refers only to one customer's laptop, but it makes it look like it applied to all laptops.
5. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by RogueyWon · 2016-06-01 03:27 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  It's not just Samsung. If anything, I'd give Samsung at least some credit (compared to a couple of their competitors) for being willing to talk about this.
  My parents have a ~5 year old Dell laptop. Back in November, they tried to move to Windows 10, but the machine locked into a BSOD-on-boot loop in the latter stages of the install. After a lot of digging into the problem, it turned out that the onboard graphics adapter for that particular model wasn't supported in Win10, so the OS crashed at the point it tried to initialise it. I had to travel 2 hours to get their PC to boot from the recovery partition and back into Windows 7.
  On Monday, the parents must have missed a step in the "dodge the near-forced update" dance, because the laptop decided it was going to move itself to Windows 10 again while they were out - with exactly the same result. Cue another two hours on the phone talking my Dad through yet another restore from the recovery partition. I'm normally happy to blame the parents for their self-inflicted PC woes, but in this case, MS have made dodging the update so hard for the average user that I can't really bring myself to do so.
  Their machine is not unique; it was from a fairly common line of low-end Dell laptops that was popular 5 years ago. There are plenty of similar tales in the Dell support forums.
  For what it's worth, I'm running Win10 on my own home desktop and while I had to do a bit of router-fettling to block the worst of the telemetry, I actually like the OS for day to day use. But then, I have a PC that can run it.
6. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by cpotoso · 2016-06-01 03:29 · Score: 1
  
  Samsung is one of the worst companies in terms of updating drivers. I have promised myself never to do business with them due to several issues like that.
7. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-01 03:30 · Score: 1
  
  This is not a surprise. Samsung abandons any device the minute it is bought and it will not release a single update to anything that is still prodcued. Only the advertisement malware may be released for obsolete devices, not any updates.
8. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by flyingfsck · 2016-06-01 03:35 · Score: 1, Troll
  
  So get Fedora KDE spin, install it and you never need to visit your parents again...
  
  --
  Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
9. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by Racemaniac · 2016-06-01 03:38 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Sure, let's just continue junking perfectly working hardware after a couple of years, i'm sure nature will be able to handle it (and those poor chinese workers that'll end up having to "recycle" it too)
10. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by RogueyWon · 2016-06-01 03:40 · Score: 1
  
  Indeed, for they will not be on speaking terms with me after I render their PC essentially useless for their purposes by sticking on an OS that is not supported by the various bits of propriety work-related software they need (they're still 3-4 years from retirement).
11. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by mrchaotica · 2016-06-01 03:42 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  I've been happily upgrading to Windows 10...
  I think your post was a lie, not because I think you're wrong about Samsung hardware support, but because Windows 10 is not an upgrade and no reasonable person install it "happily!"
  
  --
  "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
12. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by SQLGuru · 2016-06-01 03:44 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  I have a 6yo laptop (Dell, not Samsung) that is on the "Windows 10 not supported" list for Dell and Win10 works just fine. Bash them all you want, but MS does a decent job of supporting really old hardware......in spite of the manufacturers not updating their drivers.
13. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by cdrudge · 2016-06-01 03:57 · Score: 2
  
  What are you talking about? I'm super excited to try out Gingerbread now that new updates are rolling out for my Samsung Android phone.
14. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by xxxJonBoyxxx · 2016-06-01 04:01 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  >> Windows 10 is not an upgrade and no reasonable person install it "happily!"
  
  "Happily" because the start-up time (especially on old machines) is worth the upgrade. I typically use these machines to hop on line, stream a movie or some TV episodes down to a TV, and that's about it. The automatic updates don't bother me - I want those because I sometimes access some pretty shady sites to get my material - and I know how to turn the telemetry information off. And what I really want - the ability to run this hardware until it dies, rather than Microsoft eventually pulls patch support for Windows 7/8 - is now a couple of years closer to reality.
  
  The only thing I don't understand is no Vista->Windows 10 upgrades. Some of my machines really are that old, and I'm considering burning some of the Windows 7 licenses I never used just to get those rebuilt and into the modern era. (Meanwhile, I'm teaching my kids about Raspberry Pi-based Linux systems and getting them to do as much work as they can on Google docs, so hopefully Windows 10 will be the last Windows generation my home network has to support.)
15. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by idontgno · 2016-06-01 04:12 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Indeed, for they will not be on speaking terms with me after I render their PC essentially useless
  In other words, "problem solved."
  Jo Carson's Law of Competence: "Be careful what you get good at doin' 'cause you'll be doin' it for the rest of your life"
  idontgno's corollary: "If you don't want to do something for the rest of your life, be bad at it."
  
  --
  Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
16. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by TemporalBeing · 2016-06-01 04:14 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  The reason is simple. You don't make money writing drivers for hardware you've already sold.
  False. You don't directly make money writing drivers for hardware you've already sold.
  You do make money by encouraging buyers to come back due to your great support (including continuing to provide updated drivers) for products already sold.
  
  And yes, this is one reason why I haven't bought another tablet yet. I'm not seeing the kind of support I'd like to, even among higher end tablets.
  And yes, I especially would expect it with more traditional computers (laptops, desktops).
  
  --
  Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
17. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by konohitowa · 2016-06-01 04:16 · Score: 1
  
  I got burned by that. Tab 10.1. Overpriced abandonware. Deleted Samsung from my list of vendors.
18. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by TemporalBeing · 2016-06-01 04:16 · Score: 1
  
  A better question is why Never10 or GWX Control panel weren't installed on it.
  Wouldn't have mattered since Microsoft has been actively circumventing any tools like those that disable the Win10 update prompts.
  
  --
  Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
19. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by UnknowingFool · 2016-06-01 04:17 · Score: 2
  
  Well it applies one model of Samsung laptops not just one customer as you would hope that model uses the same hardware. It might also apply to any other models that use the same hardware. In the article it says specifically a Broadcom wireless card does not work however looking at the model number: NP-R590, Samsung lists the wireless card as Qualcomm Atheros so there might be some factual errors. Also the laptop is a 2010 model so it's an older laptop.
  
  --
  Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
20. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by thegarbz · 2016-06-01 04:18 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Still no Windows 10 drivers after a year from release, for a cheap model of laptop they might have pushed out 5-7 years ago, which was only certified for Windows 7? Yeah, not really surprising.
  Really? Not surprising? How hard is it to make a driver work with a certain driver model? No serious question. I'm on Windows 10 using some hardware from the XP era. Now I understand maybe the argument for Samsung attempting to force upgrades, but in terms of effort I think this is a poor excuse.
21. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by flappinbooger · 2016-06-01 04:33 · Score: 2
  
  so hopefully Windows 10 will be the last Windows generation my home network has to support.)
  pretty sure Win10 will be the last windows you will have to support, actually.
  
  --
  Flappinbooger isn't my real name
22. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by flappinbooger · 2016-06-01 04:36 · Score: 1
  
  What are you talking about? I'm super excited to try out Gingerbread now that new updates are rolling out for my Samsung Android phone.
  He's talking about the perfectly mediocre Samsung laptops, not their industry leading mobile phones.
  
  --
  Flappinbooger isn't my real name
23. Re: Which one to laugh at more? by Type44Q · 2016-06-01 04:39 · Score: 1
  
  Fuck Samsung. I have two S5's: the first is a Verizon with a locked bootloader (both Vzn and Samsung can go fuck themselves for locking me out of my own hardware). The second is a T-Mo S5 on which i've been running (unstable) nightly builds of cyanogenmod (Android 6.0/Marshmallow) because their latest "stable" build for the S5 (Android 5.1 from last Oct) is a steaming pile of shit. Meanwhile, my gf's ancient Nexus 4 is happily kicking ass, also running cyanogenmod 13. I won't be buying anything else from Samsung and that includes their SSD's.
24. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by drinkypoo · 2016-06-01 04:48 · Score: 1
  
  "Happily" because the start-up time (especially on old machines) is worth the upgrade.
  Even with quick boot turned on, and just one SSD and one DVD, my POST takes longer than my Windows 7 Pro boot. I call shenanigans.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
25. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by Streetlight · 2016-06-01 04:51 · Score: 2
  
  On Dell's web site it is recommended that my XPS 15 L502x not be upgraded to Win 10. Looking around the Internet I find lots of complaints from folks who have upgraded having trouble with various hardware features not working on their machines. Somewhere I read that these laptops used a particular model of the Intel chip that has a problem with Win 10 and a driver update won't fix it - the problem is built into the chip. This device was a top of the line PC when sold and if I remember correctly I spent something like $1,500 on it. We're not talking a cheap $400 throwaway device. To say the least I'm very upset with the situation and would hope Dell would make some kind of trade in offer on an up to date device that's appealing. At least I'm not getting nagging popups from Microsoft to update to Win 10.
  
  --
  In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
26. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by geoskd · 2016-06-01 04:53 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  I have a 6yo laptop (Dell, not Samsung) that is on the "Windows 10 not supported" list for Dell and Win10 works just fine. Bash them all you want, but MS does a decent job of supporting really old hardware......in spite of the manufacturers not updating their drivers.
  6 years old is not "really old", even in the PC world. come back and talk when the new software works with hardware older than a decade.
  It should also be noted that continuing to support old hardware is really not all that difficult, as long as you have a compatibility layer that can interact with the old drivers (which MS does). It allows them to re-use almost all of their old drivers. The only reason most of this hardware remains on the "not windows 10 ready" list is because absolutely no one intends to ever test any of it to validate that it really does work right. Theres no money in it for anyone except Microsoft, why would anyone else waste their time and money, and Microsoft could blow away a billion dollars testing just the relatively common hardware out there, and it would not add very much value to their product, so they don't bother either.
  
  --
  I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted
27. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by geoskd · 2016-06-01 05:01 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  You do make money by encouraging buyers to come back due to your great support (including continuing to provide updated drivers) for products already sold.
  
  While nice sounding in theory, the marketing types have discovered through significant research that this simply isnt the case any more. People have very little brand loyalty these days. The few companies that are able to trade on it, do, but almost all of the established players burned their credibility long ago, and the cost of rebuilding that credibility is vastly more than the reputation would be worth. In short, electronics have become highly fungible. People don't expect them to last more than a few years, but they do expect them to be quite cheap. The few exceptions out there (like apple) are only one serious mis-step away from loosing their credibility and ending up wallowing in the mud with the rest of the players.
  
  --
  I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted
28. Re: Which one to laugh at more? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-01 05:12 · Score: 1
  
  How do you know we aren't here because Mother Nature wanted plastics but couldn't do it without creating humans? You think you have the whole world figured out don't you?
29. Re: Which one to laugh at more? by cdrudge · 2016-06-01 05:15 · Score: 1
  
  I actually have had 4 Samsung phones over the years: 3 Galaxy S4 and a Galaxy Avant, all with T-mobile. All of them were woefully behind what was considered "current" Android from nearly the begining and never really received much in the form up updates. Part of that is Samsung, part of that is T-Mobile. From here on out, I'm sticking with the Nexus line of devices. Two Nexus 7 (one 2012 and one 2013) and two Nexus 5x and everything just works.
30. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by WheezyJoe · 2016-06-01 05:35 · Score: 2
  
  A better question is why Never10 or GWX Control panel weren't installed on it.
  Wouldn't have mattered since Microsoft has been actively circumventing any tools like those that disable the Win10 update prompts.
  Is that a fact? GWX Control Panel has been working for me. No nags, no installs, no update files taking up space on my drive.
  
  --
  Take it easy, Charlie, I've got an Angle...
31. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by squiggleslash · 2016-06-01 05:39 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  I wouldn't consider "Continuing to run it with Windows 7" "junking" the laptop...
  
  --
  You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
32. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by obyom · 2016-06-01 05:42 · Score: 2
  
  >> and I know how to turn the telemetry information off.
  
  How, precisely, did you turn the telemetry information off?
33. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by TemporalBeing · 2016-06-01 05:55 · Score: 1
  
  People have very little brand loyalty these days.
  
  People have very little brand loyalty because companies do not give them a reason to remain loyal because of things like what we are discussing.
  
  People don't expect them to last more than a few years, but they do expect them to be quite cheap.
  Corporations expect them to only last a few years; people in general I think expect them to last longer than a few years, and typically replace stuff because some technician can't do their job and fix the problem (typically at the behest of a support manager that wants to help drive the sales portion of the business, e.g BestBuy), so they recommend replacement instead - which most just go along with. Most laptops and desktops will easily be usable for 8 years without much effort before they are truly obsolete.
  
  Tablets and phones are generally the exception to this but mostly because the technology is still changing a lot faster, mostly around durable storage (SSD), batteries, displays, and touch recognition - the rest of the phone is pretty well known and fixed, with moderate upgrades. (Example: biggest processor difference between my 2010 NexusOne and my 2015 MotoG is not speed - speed difference is negligible - but number of cores. Overall biggest differences are RAM and SSD capacity.)
  
  --
  Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
34. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by TemporalBeing · 2016-06-01 05:57 · Score: 1
  
  A better question is why Never10 or GWX Control panel weren't installed on it.
  Wouldn't have mattered since Microsoft has been actively circumventing any tools like those that disable the Win10 update prompts.
  Is that a fact? GWX Control Panel has been working for me. No nags, no installs, no update files taking up space on my drive.
  Then you're one of the very few. There have been many news stories over the last year about GWX Control Panel and other similar tools breaking because of Microsoft doing stuff to re-enable settings for the Win10 updates that were disabled by those tools.
  
  --
  Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
35. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by AmiMoJo · 2016-06-01 06:04 · Score: 1
  
  How hard is it to make a driver work with a certain driver model? No serious question.
  Well, it depends on the hardware. There have been some major changes to some parts of the HAL between Windows 7 and 10, and massive ones between XP and 10. Even if it's one of the ones that hasn't changed much, you need to test it quite extensively. You also need to get it certified by Microsoft if it uses custom binaries.
  So even if it isn't "hard" in engineering terms, it is always going to be expensive and time consuming. For old hardware that long ago reached the end of support contracts and hasn't been manufactured for years there just isn't much of a business case for it. You can't even blame them for not buying more expensive long term support contracts back when they made it, because who could have predicted that Microsoft would release a free upgrade five years later.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
36. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by thegarbz · 2016-06-01 06:19 · Score: 1
  
  Well, it depends on the hardware.
  Of course it does. Now does anyone have any hardware that was a massive change and deviation from previous models without providing backwards compatibility to the new model and forwards compatibility to the old one? By that I mean something like a new GPU model will share significant driver code base with an old one and you're not going to release a Windows 10 only GPU when Windows 10 comes out and not back port previous ones, or provide drivers for ANY of your existing products.
  No one is starting from zero here regardless of how much the OS changes, at least not without at least being able to support some of the your product line.
37. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by Grishnakh · 2016-06-01 06:20 · Score: 2
  
  Exactly right.
  This is why, when family members/relatives ask for computer help, I offer to install Linux for them. When they take me up on it, I install Linux Mint KDE, and rarely do I have to provide any support. It "just works". As long as they just do web browsing, document writing, video playing, and other basic stuff like that and don't have some stupid proprietary software they insist on running, it works great for them. With Windows, you'll have to spend huge amounts of time being their IT support.
38. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by Grishnakh · 2016-06-01 06:22 · Score: 1
  
  Mod up. This is exactly right.
  Why should I have to spend all my time learning about all kinds of unsupported 3rd-party software and unauthorized hacks and tweaks to make a Windows machine work so that someone else can use some shitty proprietary software they insist on using? If they insist on that crap, and using Windows, they can hire Geek Squad when they have a problem. It's not my job to become an expert on Windows, just like it's not my job to be an expert on Oracle database administration; just because I "do computers" for a living doesn't mean I'm an expert on everything computer-related.
39. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by JackieBrown · 2016-06-01 06:26 · Score: 1
  
  I have a 6yo laptop (Dell, not Samsung) that is on the "Windows 10 not supported" list for Dell and Win10 works just fine. Bash them all you want, but MS does a decent job of supporting really old hardware......in spite of the manufacturers not updating their drivers.
  Is that a testament to MS or Dell's drivers? Seems when the drivers work, people congrat MS and when they don't, the blame the manufacturer.
40. Re: Which one to laugh at more? by Grishnakh · 2016-06-01 06:27 · Score: 1
  
  I have 3 Galaxy S4 phones as well, but on Sprint (with Ting), and they were all updated to Android 5.0.1 by the carrier. Not the most-current Android version, but not "woefully behind" either, and newer than the version they originally came with.
  I do plan to try out Cyanogenmod on one of them sometime and see how it goes.
  The Nexus devices suck as far as I can tell: no removable battery or SD card slot, and probably no Otterbox Defender case either. Samsung's hardware is excellent (well, it was up to the S5 at least; the S6 sucked and the S7 isn't much better). Great software isn't that useful if the hardware is crap and there's no good case with holster available.
41. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by SQLGuru · 2016-06-01 06:38 · Score: 1
  
  Considering I'm not using the Dell drivers but the Microsoft ones, I'll give praise to Microsoft. The Dell drivers were barely 7 ready.....a lot of them were really Vista drivers.
42. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by sexconker · 2016-06-01 06:40 · Score: 1
  
  Despite. The word you are looking for is despite. You wouldn't spitefully do someone's job for them. Even Samuel Clemens had to write characters has happy idiots in order for them to paint someone else's fence.
43. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by lectos · 2016-06-01 07:20 · Score: 1
  
  I have the same laptop and upgraded to Windows 10. The only snag was the Intel Graphics driver/Nvidia driver issue.
  A quick google and voila:
  1 – After installing Windows 10, go to the following Dell’s homepage:
  http://www.dell.com/support/ho...
  On the topic View all available updates for Windows , and click on Choose Your OS
  A list of drivers will appear.
  2 – Select BIOS – do the download of the file and excecute it. You have to upgrade the BIOS firmware.
  Your machine will restart (it will take a little time)
  After restart, if you access Device Manager on Control Panel, you’ll see that Windows 10 now recognize your video card.
  3 – On the same link over, download the graphics driver (Intel HD 3000/2000 Graphics Driver) and excecute it.
  Do the same with nVIDIA GeForce GT 525M/GT540M Graphics Driver
  5 – After that, access Device Manager on Control Panel, right click over the nVIDIA GeForce GT 525M/GT540M Graphics Driver and choose Update Driver..
44. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by Darinbob · 2016-06-01 07:31 · Score: 1
  
  Create an API for a driver and then don't change it, and old hardware will work with new OS versions. It's not hard. In some cases Microsoft sticks with their API, but in many cases Microsoft loves changing and breaking things.
45. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by cpotoso · 2016-06-01 07:32 · Score: 1
  
  Last example was Samsung Galaxy Note 8.0 which never went above 4.XX even though it was a high-end (and expensive) device at its time. Fortunately CM allowed me to upgrade (and to get rid of all Samsung junk that came pre-loaded).
46. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by armanox · 2016-06-01 07:49 · Score: 1
  
  Had the exact opposite happen with my Dell (Precision M4500) - Dell only supports Windows 7 on there, and Microsoft, in their infinite wisdom, force delivers/installs a newer NVidia driver then supports the Quadro 880m that's in the laptop. That wasn't fun to try and fix either, thanks to the "YOU MUST INSTALL UPDATES" policy that Microsoft has enforced.
  
  --
  I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
47. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by armanox · 2016-06-01 07:57 · Score: 1
  
  Well, not quite the extreme you listed, but there are a lot of GPUs that got dropped by ATI/AMD between each version of Windows since XP (Example - I had a "Vista-ready" Toshiba with an XPress 200m that that had no Windows 7 driver), and Intel (Intel i8xx GPUs have acceleration in XP only) and Nvidia have quite a few too (Nvidia moved between Windows 8 and 10 quite a few things to legacy that the mainstream driver (including the one that Windows update will force install if you were using the driver nvidia says to use (my case, a Quadro 880m in a Precision M4500))
  
  --
  I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
48. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by armanox · 2016-06-01 08:03 · Score: 1
  
  Drivers are the biggest thing. Many Vista era GPUs are not supported in Windows 10. That then leads to extra CPU load since Windows 10 will software render the entire desktop rather then having a non-accelerated fallback mode.
  Second issue I noticed is thanks to Windows Defender being "always on" it creates a very massive CPU load on older CPUs (Core 2 and older), and the OS plus updates are so slow that the user experience is massively slow. Plus there is the risk of finding a system that does not properly support (or have enabled) all of the features required to run W10.
  
  --
  I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
49. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by armanox · 2016-06-01 08:10 · Score: 1
  
  That's the exact reason I stopped buying Android devices (I bought a Droid X over an iPhone years ago, and came to regret it (kept it about 2.5 years, replaced it with an iPhone 5 when they first came out, and my ASUS tablet that I bought two years ago got replaced with a Windows Tablet back in November). My ex-girlfriend bounced around all sorts of Android devices over the last about six or seven years that all failed to improve my opinion of the manufacturers to make me want to even try another android device. She (after we broke up and I stopped doing support for her) later switched to an iPhone and was astonished at it actually recieving updates and such.
  
  --
  I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
50. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by armanox · 2016-06-01 08:19 · Score: 1
  
  Well, that's half the problem, people managing devices that they aren't qualified to use.
  
  --
  I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
51. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by Mal-2 · 2016-06-01 08:38 · Score: 1
  
  The distinct demarcation between the 915G and 945G is that the 945G is Aero-capable and the 915G is not. I don't know what kind of driver support you expect in Windows 10 for a graphics chipset that can't even run Windows 7 properly, yet both were shipping the day Windows 7 came out.
  
  --
  How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
52. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by AmiMoJo · 2016-06-01 09:34 · Score: 1
  
  Both AMD and nvidia have gone through two major architectures in the past 5 years. I think Intel's graphics tech has changed a lot too.
  And Windows 10 has made a lot of charges to the graphics architecture where performance 3D is concerned.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
53. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by swillden · 2016-06-01 11:54 · Score: 1
  
  Indeed, for they will not be on speaking terms with me after I render their PC essentially useless for their purposes by sticking on an OS that is not supported by the various bits of propriety work-related software they need (they're still 3-4 years from retirement).
  Odds are good that it would run under WINE, though you'd have to test it to find out. VirtualBox is also a reasonable solution in many cases, especially if the bits in question aren't used heavily.
  
  --
  Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
54. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-01 12:04 · Score: 1
  
  ... our life, be bad at it.
  
  I'd argue the corollary is: If you don't want to do something for the rest of your life, get good at doing worthless things.
  Which, now I think about it and ignore my IT skills, describes me perfectly. I hated school-work many years ago but it turns out I'm very good at it. Alas, there's no market for middle-aged students.
55. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by Sperbels · 2016-06-01 12:15 · Score: 1
  
  But I insist on having the new fancy UI!!!!! (And so does Microsoft)
56. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by exomondo · 2016-06-01 13:42 · Score: 1
  
  Still no Windows 10 drivers after a year from release, for a cheap model of laptop they might have pushed out 5-7 years ago, which was only certified for Windows 7? Yeah, not really surprising.
  They do the same shit with their phones, not providing timely updates for Android devices.
57. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by ledow · 2016-06-01 20:43 · Score: 1
  
  Every cheapy wireless driver. Sometimes it's hard to get the right driver when you KNOW the model of computer it was in and it was supported for that version of Windows.
  Every cheapy soundcard driver.
  Every cheapy webcam driver.
  Even things like card readers, fingerprint readers etc.
  Honestly, have you TRIED to support any decent number of home / small business computers at any point in your life?
  If the words "Realtek" or "HDAudio" next to a no-driver hardware in control panel don't make you immediately think "Oh, ffs", you can't have done.
  It's not a question of what's technically possible. It's a question of Samsung buying a webcam model for a couple of quid (and that's ALL they can afford to spend given the other features and costs in a low-end laptop, for instance) and they get given a hacked driver that the manufacturer says will work on Windows 7 32-bit. Which they then bundle with their Windows 7 32-bit machines, pre-installed (because it probably doesn't even have a proper setup and/or conflicts with other devices and/or is unsigned).
  Then five years after that model goes off the market, you want to get a Windows 10 64-bit driver for it? Good luck, whoever it involved.
  We're not talking server hardware with 10/15-year life expectancy here. We're talking consumer hardware with cheap models and drivers specified for the "bundled" versions of Windows that work perfectly well until Windows 10 comes along years afterwards and doesn't have that EXACT driver for that one-off model of device in the list.
58. Re:Which one to laugh at more? by Shirley+Marquez · 2016-06-02 05:41 · Score: 1
  
  I've got an HP Compaq 6510b from 2008 (Core 2 Duo T7100, 1.8 GHz) that originally came with Windows XP. (Vista was the current version by then but presumably the original buyer wanted XP. The model stayed in production long enough for systems with Windows 7 to be available.) I installed the Windows 10 Insider Preview on it - clean install, not an upgrade. HP says nothing about Windows 10 compatibility, but everything works perfectly except the fingerprint reader. That doesn't work in any version of Windows after XP - Apple bought the maker so drivers for later versions of Windows were never developed.
Samsung is too busy by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-01 03:16 · Score: 3, Interesting

Samsung is too busy writing crappy replacements for all of the Google apps on Android, not updating their phones, screwing around with Tizen, etc. to both creating a proper set of drivers for their PCs. No surprise, they aren't good at updating anything they make. Oh, wait. They are good at adding advertisements to their older TVs: https://hardware.slashdot.org/...
Users Just Expect Computers to "Work" by BoRegardless · 2016-06-01 03:20 · Score: 2

Between MS Win10 nagging and failure of both hardware & software products to be secure (recent Windows laptops security issues), customers are being let down.
I'm beginning to think Windows & the hardware is now on a downhill slide as it is just too complex to maintain.
1. Re:Users Just Expect Computers to "Work" by The+MAZZTer · 2016-06-01 03:30 · Score: 2
  
  The problem is, software has bugs and users who expect computers to "work" aren't going to be diligent in getting patches since they don't care as long as it 'works". I fully support completely automatic Windows Update by default because of this.
  Though Microsoft has been... overly enthusiastic with pushing Windows 10, it's easy to see that, given they are incrementally improving security in each new OS version, they want as many people to migrate to 10 as soon as possible to gain the security benefits, and help them drop support for older versions sooner so they can focus on patching/improving the newer ones.
  
  failure of both hardware & software products to be secure (recent Windows laptops security issues),
  Can't blame MS for this though (you didn't but I want to make this clear). It's the suppliers of the broken third-party software that is to blame. Honestly Microsoft should throw some weight around to try and encourage vanilla Windows installs. Though there's a lot of money involved in installing shovelware onto new PCs.
2. Re:Users Just Expect Computers to "Work" by Khyber · 2016-06-01 05:03 · Score: 2
  
  "given they are incrementally improving security in each new OS version"
  Which is why we just had a 0-day for every version of windows from 2000 on up?
  "Can't blame MS for this though"
  Yes, we can. It's their OS, they should've told manufacturers to either provide the drivers or don't gain certification. That simple.
  
  --
  Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
3. Re:Users Just Expect Computers to "Work" by jbssm · 2016-06-01 06:30 · Score: 1
  
  It actually just looks like Microsoft still didn't see that the world is ready to move on from them at the 1st real opportunity and doesn't give a damn.
  For instance Visual Studio 2015. You have to update the packages one by one.... manually... and download each runnable install file from the internet. It's absolutely ridiculous, how can anyone use that stuff? They didn't implement that basic feature that's standard in any IDE in Mac or Linux, updating. It's just crazy.
4. Re:Users Just Expect Computers to "Work" by Perky_Goth · 2016-06-01 07:39 · Score: 1
  
  Because that never happened with Linux or SSH... All software has bugs, even long standing ones. How many and how bad are the relevant questions.
5. Re:Users Just Expect Computers to "Work" by armanox · 2016-06-01 08:24 · Score: 1
  
  Except the device in question isn't certified for W10 - it's people doing it themselves.
  
  --
  I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
6. Re:Users Just Expect Computers to "Work" by EndlessNameless · 2016-06-01 09:30 · Score: 1
  
  Which is why we just had a 0-day for every version of windows from 2000 on up?
  That's a pointless argument. Every OS has zero-days, including Linux and BSD. Some exploits span multiple kernels/releases.
  
  Yes, we can. It's their OS, they should've told manufacturers to either provide the drivers or don't gain certification
  That makes no sense. They were never trying to certify the old machines for Windows 10.
  Is Microsoft really going to say: "Provide drivers for 5-10 year old hardware, or else we won't certify your new machines."
  No, because the OEMs would revolt. If it comes down to it, they do not need Microsoft certification to ship a product.
  
  --
  
  ---
  According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
7. Re:Users Just Expect Computers to "Work" by david_thornley · 2016-06-02 04:08 · Score: 1
  
  It's people tricked into doing it themselves. We know that people have been upgraded by Microsoft to Windows 10 against their wishes, although Microsoft often got something that MS could call permission by underhanded means.
  
  --
  "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
8. Re:Users Just Expect Computers to "Work" by armanox · 2016-06-02 04:17 · Score: 1
  
  There is certainly that too - From what I've seen from people that upgraded most of them elected to do it (only know two instances of it upgrading itself without the user saying yes - one of them being a user who I do not believe had admin access to that computer to tell it to upgrade). Regardless, the devices being upgraded don't have Windows 10 certification for the most part.
  
  --
  I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
Plenty of Windows 10 comparibility by MobyDisk · 2016-06-01 03:24 · Score: 4, Informative

The headline implies that Samsung is telling all their customers not to upgrade any equipment to Windows 10. But reading the article, it looks like one customer got one email saying this. If you follow the link in the article, and try a few models out, there are indeed models that support Windows 10.
In general though:
1. What Windows 8 drivers do not work on Windows 10?
Windows 8 was good about supporting Windows 7 drivers and even XP drivers. Video drivers art the ones that are usually an issue.
2. Does the Windows 10 upgrade check driver availability before upgrading?
1. Re:Plenty of Windows 10 comparibility by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-01 03:33 · Score: 1
  
  1. No idea.
  2. Yes. At least the GWX program for 7 will not proceed if it detects any hardware that does not already have a certified Windows 10 driver. For your convenience, it will then link to places to purchase newer computers that are Windows 10 compatible. (I still plan to try to force an update on that one sometime this month, but only once I'm sure I have a plan for video card upgrading if it refuses to run at any comfortable resolution)
2. Re:Plenty of Windows 10 comparibility by flyingfsck · 2016-06-01 03:39 · Score: 2
  
  "2. Does the Windows 10 upgrade check driver availability before upgrading?" Ha, ha, ha... snort... uhmm, sorry... This is from the same idiots that would happily ask whether to go online to find an ethernet driver.
  
  --
  Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
3. Re:Plenty of Windows 10 comparibility by PRMan · 2016-06-01 03:53 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Windows 8 does NOT support XP drivers. The driver model was changed in Vista. Maybe XP64 was ahead of the curve on that one, because it had a ton of driver issues rendering it nearly unusable, but for your average person on XP32, 8 has no guarantees whatsoever.
  
  --
  Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
4. Re:Plenty of Windows 10 comparibility by PincushionMan · 2016-06-01 04:14 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, they do. I've got a two old Dell Laptops that I saved from the dumpster after someone left their pallet after a university auction, It is a machien from 2005, now running Windows 8.1 (32 bit), even though it didn't want to. I installed it anyway, and used the OmegaDriver to get that ATi video chipset working. It *says* it is a Radeon X1600 mobility on the sticker, but from what I understand, it is really Radeon 9000/9200 era silicon. Both AMD and Nvidia are bad about overstating (read lying) about their mobility video chipset capabilities in laptops.
  Anyway, 10 flat-out refuses to install. The message states, "Your hardware vendor has not yet provided updates for this model," and "You may not upgrade to Windows 10 yet." It's still sitting on the HD, taking up space, but this old Dell is never going to get the update from Dell, Inc. You'd think that MS would take the hint. I can probably force it, but I suspect that the old hacked driver won't work in 10. I think that's why the Omega driver guy gave up - not to mention that newer laptops were also accepting generic drivers.
  The 2nd has an Intel 915GM, so it had no problems with 8.1, at first. Sadly the 2nd has a BIOS bug that, in anything OS newer than Vista (or any version of Linux), will randomly corrupt the memory heap when the video card requests more memory. Without asking, it starts randomly writing pages of VRAM data into the OS address space. I can repeat this reliably in Linux running the OpenGL benchmarks. There's one with a spinning horse model that reliably causes the crash. It would be compatible with 10 - if it wouldn't blow up the memory anytime 3D or OpenGL was activated. I believe by default, it uses just 1MB of video memory, which is find for GDI, but anything more than that and you're going to BSOD.
  
  Of course, Dell says: "That's an XP certified machine, runs fine with XP, so do so. We'll fix this problem on a couple of newer machines (and one older one) with this setup, but not that one, because we discontinued the Vostro line."
  Even with all that, I'd still buy Dell over HP/Compaq, because Dell machines don't actively self destruct within 3 years of purchase. Most HP/Compaqs I've seen in (small) business have either 1) external daughtercard for video, which will over time overheat (of course) and warp its way out of the right angle socket (ATi), or 2) use Nvidia chipsets that self-destruct precisely 30 days outside of warranty.
5. Re:Plenty of Windows 10 comparibility by geoskd · 2016-06-01 05:13 · Score: 1
  
  2. Yes. At least the GWX program for 7 will not proceed if it detects any hardware that does not already have a certified Windows 10 driver. For your convenience, it will then link to places to purchase newer computers that are Windows 10 compatible. (I still plan to try to force an update on that one sometime this month, but only once I'm sure I have a plan for video card upgrading if it refuses to run at any comfortable resolution)
  What a great idea! I'll start selling the "anti-upgrade" dongle for your home PC. it includes an absolutely ancient USB device that has no actual purpose other than to have no windows 10 driver, thereby preventing GWX for doing the update! brilliant!
  step 3: Profit!
  
  --
  I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted
6. Re:Plenty of Windows 10 comparibility by armanox · 2016-06-01 08:29 · Score: 1
  
  That, and Dell is at least honest about saying what they will and will not support. Oh, and they don't have their machines refuse to boot if you change the WIFI card like HP does....
  
  --
  I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
7. Re:Plenty of Windows 10 comparibility by beastofburdon · 2016-06-03 05:22 · Score: 1
  
  That is actually a brilliant idea, but I would make a pci card too, just in case it ignores usb devices.
Re:Sure, skip it by rossdee · 2016-06-01 03:27 · Score: 1

"It's an even release, so it sucks. Wait until Windows 11 is out."
So when is Windows 11 coming out.
Or a better question = when is the next version of Windows that doesn't suck coming out
(wait until thten and buy a new PC with it pre-installed)
Re:First Post by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-01 03:30 · Score: 2, Funny

Yeah. Your prize is a free copy of Windows 10, which you can't even install. Enjoy.
FUD by neoritter · 2016-06-01 03:31 · Score: 2

Seems like a FUD article. I was taken aback, since I'm about to upgrade my older tower PC this weekend (finally cleared enough space on the main SSD), but then I realized my newer PC with a Samsung SSD, is working just fine with Windows 10. I kind of doubt that the Samsung HDD on my old PC will have troubles.
1. Re:FUD by neoritter · 2016-06-01 03:34 · Score: 2
  
  Also article is dealing with a 6+ year old laptop.
That's what you get with non-standard hardware by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-01 03:33 · Score: 2, Informative

Samsung has a long history of making their computer hardware slightly non-standard.
Just enough that generic drivers don't recognize the Samsung versions as compatible.
(They change PCI Vendor ID's and Hardware ID to custom values.
In some cases they wire the chips in a non-standard way. E.g. a Wifi chip with 4 antenna's only has antenna 3 and 4 attached in stead of 1 and 2 as the manufacturer recommends. Bluetooth or Wifi enable switch is wired in reverse so on Samsung ON means OFF.)
And their own Windows 7/8 drivers which, on their own, would work without issue in Windows 10 don't install on 10 because their setup programs explicitly test for the OS version and simply abort with a "non-supported OS" message.
In some cases you can extract the actual driver from the setup and install it manually but for most users that is just too much voodoo required.
Driver hell is one reason why people buy Apple by zerofoo · 2016-06-01 03:33 · Score: 1

Here it is folks - one reason why people pay a premium for the shiny Aluminum case - driver hell sucks.
I dumped windows for personal use years ago and never looked back. I maintain one laptop that runs windows and my blood pressure goes up every time I am forced to use it.
1. Re:Driver hell is one reason why people buy Apple by squiggleslash · 2016-06-01 03:57 · Score: 2
  
  There have been times in the past that the latest version of Mac OS X wouldn't run on six year old Macs. I can't say if that's the case today or not, but I certainly wouldn't switch to Apple just to be sure that I can run Mac OS X 10.17 on a 2016 Mac mini in 2022.
  
  --
  You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
2. Re:Driver hell is one reason why people buy Apple by armanox · 2016-06-01 08:33 · Score: 1
  
  That's simply not true. I have seen OS X 10.11 installed on the 2009 MacBook.
  
  --
  I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
3. Re:Driver hell is one reason why people buy Apple by malditaenvidia · 2016-06-01 09:33 · Score: 1
  
  And whenever a mac doesn't support some third party device, you're SOL. Your boutique doorstops use drivers too, you know?
4. Re:Driver hell is one reason why people buy Apple by zerofoo · 2016-06-02 05:47 · Score: 1
  
  We have a fleet of 6-8 year old Macs that run El Capitan just fine. Sure, they are a little slow, but they work.
Samsung by fluffernutter · 2016-06-01 03:34 · Score: 2

..says the company who wants us all to connect our TVs to the internet so we can see *their* advertising.

--
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
1. Re:Samsung by YrWrstNtmr · 2016-06-01 04:14 · Score: 1
  
  Even worse, they want your fridge as well. http://www.samsung.com/us/appl...
  http://www.cnet.com/news/touchscreen-refrigerators-and-talking-everything-at-ces-2016/
What? by hyperar · 2016-06-01 03:37 · Score: 1

I've been running Windows 10 from my 2012 NP550P5C-T01AR for almost a year and it has been working without fails.
1. Re:What? by squiggleslash · 2016-06-01 05:45 · Score: 1
  
  I want to know when they're going out with the S-100 drivers for my Horizon Northstar.
  
  --
  You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Never Upgraded Windows on a Laptop by rpervinking · 2016-06-01 03:44 · Score: 4, Informative

The only party interested in having Windows work well on their laptop is the manufacturer, and that only until the thing is sold. After that, forget it. And laptop hardware is crazy, with a different chip being switched into the middle of the production run because it saves them maybe 10 cents per unit. And they fix the driver to match. For the version of Windows they expect to be installing for initial sale. Period. So I just take whatever the damned thing comes with and leave it alone. That approach has worked for me since 1997 (Thinkpad 765D with Windows 95) and I'm sticking with it.
1. Re:Never Upgraded Windows on a Laptop by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-01 04:06 · Score: 1
  
  You're sticking with Windows 95?
No feelings for Microsoft by rdelsambuco · 2016-06-01 03:45 · Score: 1

Well I'm so happy I'm feeling so fine
I'm watching all the rubbish, you're wasting my time
I look around your house, you got nothing to steal
I kick you in the brains when you get down to kneel
And pray, you pray to your god.

--
I comment occasionally so that I can mod others -1 overrated or -1 offtopic.
Seems like Samsung is the problem by sjbe · 2016-06-01 03:54 · Score: 2, Insightful

The consumer electronics giant's support staff have admitted drivers for its PCs still don't work with Microsoft's newest operating system and told customers they should simply not make the upgrade.
So they've had nearly a year since Windows 10 was released and quite some time before that with betas to figure out how to make their drivers work. Sounds like the problem isn't with Windows 10 but with Samsung being unable to develop quality drivers. Plenty of other companies seem to have figured it out. Basically this tells me to avoid Samsung products. Windows 10 isn't without problems but by and large they don't seem to be technical ones but rather Microsoft being overly aggressive about pushing updates down our throats.
1. Re:Seems like Samsung is the problem by Tharkkun · 2016-06-01 08:06 · Score: 1
  
  The consumer electronics giant's support staff have admitted drivers for its PCs still don't work with Microsoft's newest operating system and told customers they should simply not make the upgrade.
  So they've had nearly a year since Windows 10 was released and quite some time before that with betas to figure out how to make their drivers work. Sounds like the problem isn't with Windows 10 but with Samsung being unable to develop quality drivers. Plenty of other companies seem to have figured it out. Basically this tells me to avoid Samsung products. Windows 10 isn't without problems but by and large they don't seem to be technical ones but rather Microsoft being overly aggressive about pushing updates down our throats.
  It's actually the same problem that we all faced with Vista. Due to a change in spec manufacturers were almost a year behind in providing quality drivers. This resulted in the abomination of issues users had with Vista. By the time updates were out the damage was already done. In this case Samsung is only hurting themselves.
They're both right by Cro+Magnon · 2016-06-01 04:10 · Score: 3, Insightful

We probably should avoid Windows 10. We should also avoid Samsung products.

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Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
Re:Sure, skip it by TemporalBeing · 2016-06-01 04:20 · Score: 1

when is the next version of Windows that doesn't suck coming out
I'd say shortly after Duke Nukem Forever came out, but they did actually manage to release that...albeit over 10 years late.
That said, when did Microsoft ever release a version of Windows that did *not* suck? So, probably when Hell freezes over and pigs grow wings and fly.

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Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
They've been busy... by fahrbot-bot · 2016-06-01 04:29 · Score: 1

Samsung has probably been too busy updating their Smart TV software to deliver (unwanted) ads.

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It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Re:First Post by Austerity+Empowers · 2016-06-01 04:44 · Score: 1

I win motherfuckers
You do, life is pretty much downhill from here for you.
Samsung Desktop? by ioev · 2016-06-01 05:01 · Score: 1

My father in law has a Samsung desktop computer he picked up cheap at staples (was obviously a rebranded Korean model). I upgraded it to Windows 10 a few months ago and it's been problem free. Maybe this is only for Samsung laptops?
Re:Plenty of Windows 10 compatibility by MobyDisk · 2016-06-01 05:12 · Score: 2

Whoops, thanks for the correction. I was thinking "The one before Windows 7" so naturally, my mind immediately skipped Vista.
Re:First Post by NatasRevol · 2016-06-01 05:15 · Score: 2

No, you're forced to install it.
You just can't use it.

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There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
Samsung too busy... by NetAlien · 2016-06-01 05:32 · Score: 1

working on putting ads on their smart TVs to waste time fixing their Windows 10 crap.
Re:Sure, skip it by Grishnakh · 2016-06-01 06:29 · Score: 1

It's an even release, so it sucks. Wait until Windows 11 is out.
Um, I thought that was never supposed to happen, and that the plan was all future versions of Windows would be "Windows 10", much like all versions of MacOS have been "MacOS X" for a very long time. Isn't Windows 10 just supposed to be a rolling release?
sounds fishy by bobmajdakjr · 2016-06-01 08:27 · Score: 1

"tell your users not to update until after the free thing expires and we will share some of the profits" -- some email on a microsoft server right now, probably.
1. Re: sounds fishy by bobmajdakjr · 2016-06-01 08:31 · Score: 1
  
  we will know if shortly after samsung praises microsoft for all the help and determination to get what ever does not work (which probably, actually already does, im running wifi drivers from 2004 ffs), to work.
Re:Will Samsung pay for my upgrade? by armanox · 2016-06-01 08:37 · Score: 1

Why is it Samsung's problem? Did they promise you that you would be able to upgrade your system when you bought it?

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I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
Come on Anniversary edition! by Ol+Olsoc · 2016-06-01 08:37 · Score: 1

So when they start chaging for it - that means they'll quit trying to trick me into installing it? Will they remove the install files for W10 on people's computers? Yippee! This may be the best thing Microsoft has ever done for computing.

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The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Re:This is par the course for proprietary software by armanox · 2016-06-01 08:41 · Score: 1

Bullshit. Linux drops stuff at developers whims, and there is nothing to encourage them not to. Case in point - GPU acceleration when they dropped DRI1 (sometime around 2011 IIRC) I had many laptops that suddenly ran Windows 7 much better then they ran Linux, because the X.Org idiots decided that nope, those features aren't important. They can all just use LLVMPipe instead.

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I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
Translation by JustAnotherOldGuy · 2016-06-01 09:23 · Score: 1

"Samsung: Don't install Windows 10"
Translation:
"Samsung: We Can't Code Drivers Worth A Shit"

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Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Why This Doesn't Surprise Me by mschwanke97402 · 2016-06-01 09:41 · Score: 3, Informative

Samsung, in general, have proven to me that they are not interested in after-the-sale product support. My first, and only, Samsung phone (early Android) saw no more updates within a year after its release date. The $1000 Samsung laptop I bought for Christmas in 2012 with Windows 7 never saw a proper set of Windows 8/8.1 drivers and there are no Windows 10 drivers at all.
The decades-old /. trope becomes relevant at last by codeButcher · 2016-06-01 23:40 · Score: 1

... namely: but does it run Linux?

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Free, as in your money being freed from the confines of your account.
Re:Sure, skip it by david_thornley · 2016-06-02 04:06 · Score: 1

More like Apple? I ran MacOS 9, so I'll attest that it did exist. This was the end of the pre-OSX era, so it was way behind the times, but it existed, and introduced Carbon (which was supported by Mac OSX for some time).

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"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes