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Web Petition For 2nd EU Referendum Draws Huge Interest (ap.org)
From an Associated Press report:An online petition seeking a second referendum on a British exit from the Europe Union has drawn more than 1.6 million names, a measure of the extraordinary divisiveness of Thursday's vote to leave the 28-nation bloc. The online petition site hosted by the House of Commons website even crashed Friday under the weight of the activity as officials said they'd seen unprecedented interest in the measure, which calls on the government to implement a rule that stating if that if "remain" or "leave" camps won less than 60 percent of the vote with less than a 75 percent turnout "there should be another referendum."According to reports, this is the biggest surge of support Parliament's website has ever seen. Looking at the keywords people were hitting up on Google after the news first broke, it was clear that a considerable portion of the population was clueless about the whole situation.
Might as well go pray. Has about the same effect.
How cute, the democratic result didn't go our way so we'll make a new referendum with skewed option balance. This surely will make our way the only way!
How could anyone have remained clueless with the wall to wall coverage? More importantly, why should anyone that apathetic be taken seriously now?
The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
We didn't get the vote we wanted. Lets vote again.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
This is a perfect example of why life changing decisions should be by a super majority of votes, 60% or more. Making such a big change like exiting the EU on the whim of a 50% vote is moronic. :/
~~~Please pass the salt, I hate unsalted MD5s
I hope this serves as a warning for the ignorant people considering a vote for Donald or Hillery.
There corrected that for you.
Yeah really. *I had no idea that Trump would actually become president just because I voted for him!*
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
About 22 million of people voted for "stay". They can have all of them to sign the petition, they still remain the minority. This is supposed to be they way democracy works, or is internet changing the rules ?!?
You know what? Tough shit. You had plenty of time to research the issue *before* the vote. But no, it only occurred people to even do something as paltry as a freaking google search, AFTER the vote had already taken place.
It's about fucking time people actually started taking responsibility for their actions. It's this "Oh whoopsie! I didn't mean to do that! I want backsies!" bullshit that is the reason why the entire world is deteriorating before our very eyes.... because people can't be bothered to spend two lousy seconds to stop and think about what they're going to do, before they actually do it.
What's the phrase? Measure twice, cut once? Well guess what... That little rule applies to a hell of a lot more than just cutting wood.
But of course, I'm just pissing in the wind. (Which is amazingly difficult to do from a squatting position, let me assure you...) The average person isn't going to make any effort to change, and the world is going to get even more fucked up than it is now.
The only thing that is going to happen is that those with both the foresight and the means to protect themselves, will hunker down and wait while everyone else blows a gasket and likely start killing each other.
You do realise, that it is a petition from the citizens, not the government. I guess, many of the signers were disappointed voters who believed the bullshit about giving the EU money to the NHS. Unfortunately for them Farage changed his mind after the vote.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
I'd prefer a united Ireland and an independent Schotland in the EU and a high Trump-like wall between Scotland and England to secure the EU outer frontiers, like the Brits always wanted. :-)
Germand car companies repatriating their English car factories (Mini, Vauxhall, Rolls Royce, Bentley etc) is a given, 5 Chinese banks already moved to Luxemburg, others will follow.
It will be a mighty small empire when this is finished.
He didn't change his mind. He just lied. I vaguely remember a similar thing happening during the US 2008 campaign and while passing their health insurance bill. Same shit, different day.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
A supermajority requirement is to politics what hysteresis is to control loops. It's not even an analogy, just two words for the same concept really.
The result was very narrow. The turn-out was relatively low for such an important decision. A lot of people are expressing regret, the victorious side instantly reneged on a number of promises and the predicted economic meltdown that people didn't believe would happen happened.
Given all that, a second opportunity to vote, especially now that young people are realizing that if they had bothered to turn out they could have overcome the baby boomer vote stealing their future away, seems like a reasonable request.
Even if it isn't granted, Scotland will likely leave the UK, and maybe Northern Ireland too, so they have the power to reject the result anyway and it's not fair to deny the rest of the UK the same opportunity.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
It's over millennials. Your parents know better than you and we're hoping you'll grow up and figure that out at some point.
I'm not sure where you're going with that. The demographics of the vote show clearly that millennials and under-50 voters were solidly in the "remain" camp.
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
Is that perl?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I hope this serves as a warning for the ignorant people considering a vote for Donald or Hillery.
There corrected that for you.
I hope this serves as a warning for the ignorant people considering a vote for Donald or Hillary.
There I corrected that for you.
I guess, many of the signers were disappointed voters who believed the bullshit about giving the EU money to the NHS. Unfortunately for them Farage changed his mind after the vote.
It is true that the UK currently pays the EU a net £13.5 billion (about $20 billion, at least until yesterday)) a year in contributions. That's after deducting the payments that come back from Brussels - although it should be noted that the EU bureaucrats choose who gets "their" largesse. So the equation is roughly like this: the British government takes a lot of British taxpayers' money and gives it to Brussels. Brussels then gives chosen "good causes" in the UK about a third of that money, and keeps the rest.
What Nigel Farage (and many others) think is that it would be nice if the UK government kept that money and spent it on whatever useful priorities it thinks best. The NHS is certainly one of our biggest and most resource-hungry public utilities, and I don't see why it shouldn't get some of the £13.5 billion the UK could save by not being in the EU.
I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
Reporter on public radio was saying that Google UK search terms on 'what is Brexit' and 'consequences of Brexit' jumped AFTER the vote. I think a lot of people listened to the activists and voted based on emotion. Now they are thinking "What the f*** did we just get ourselves into?" Some accounts of the British vote had a primary reason for Brexit as fear of the refugee crisis in the EU. But Britain is not part of the Schengen Area and has maintained independent control of immigration and visas.
Pretty much the same thing hapens in our town. Politicians don't like something, so they scare the shit out of the public and it gets voted down. OTOH, if it's something the pols want to do, they sell it and even if it's riskier and more expensive, the public votes it up.
Have gnu, will travel.
Your comment is ignorant. There's no proof whatsoever that going against free trade had hurt anyone. Call it protectionism or whatever you want. In America we've had NAFTA and WTO free trade agreements that have killed the American labor force. I've seen it since the 1990s. The corporations lead a strong PACs that want you to believe how much better off you are now than going against their wishes. People like Romney fill their pockets at the expense of the middle class.
You people that support free global trade are the same ones whining about H1B, product dumping, and speaking to foreigners whilst calling Concast.
Can't have it both ways folks.
What economic meltdown? A few % lower stock prices and a lower off the pound? Doesn't sound like an "economic meltdown" to me. And most of the economic damage will probably be at the expense of bankers, stock traders and wealthy property owners in London. Most ordinary people don't care about that.
The UK can now drop the stupid EU sanctions against Russia and open new trade opportunities.
The result was very narrow. The turn-out was relatively low for such an important decision.
That turns out not to be the case. The turnout was 72.21%, and the number of votes cast for "Leave" was 17,410,742 - the highest number of votes ever cast for one candidate or option in any British election. While the margin of victory was a relatively narrow 3.8%, that represents over 1.25 million votes.
I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
52-48 is so narrow that even the head of Brexit declared that it was too narrow for a decisive decision.
Well he said that when he thought he might lose, back in may.
Anyway I signed the petition for what good it might do. Given how fast Bojo is back pedalling (he actually said there's no need to leave, or specifically there's no need to invoke Article 50---which means precisely leave) and the large amount of buyer's remorse, it isn't over yet.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
A lot of people have been on radio, on TV and on social media saying that the voted as a protest or not really expecting leave to win, and are now regretting it.
People are talking about coming together to weather the storm. That clearly won't happen. Scotland will leave, and the rest of us blame the leave voters for creating the storm. An apology for the lies and the miscalculation won't be enough. A generational war is likely too, with young people realizing that the boomers have screwed them and fighting back. By rights the coming recession should be paid for out of their pension pots.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
A recent web petition revealed that a large majority of US citizens want Muslim immigration stopped.
I find it hard to believe that the majority (50%+1) of US citizens even participated on the petition, let along the vast majority.
And if it wasn't the vast majority actually participating, then you fall into statistics. And statistics require methodology. What was the methodology for the sampling? What was the error margin? Standard deviation?
No wonder you are posting anonymously. You are a moron.
morcego
The result was very narrow. The turn-out was relatively low for such an important decision. A lot of people are expressing regret, the victorious side instantly reneged on a number of promises and the predicted economic meltdown that people didn't believe would happen happened.
Yep. Lots of reasons to disavow a democratically voted referendum.
Can you think of any reason why disavowing the vote would be bad?
I don't have a dog in this fight, but a (Brit) friend asked me about this a couple of months ago. The conversation went like this:
Him: Should I vote for the UK to leave the EU?
Me: Yes, absolutely.
Him: Why?
Me: Because if you don't, nothing will change
Expounding on that last bit, note that if the vote had happened 5 years ago the results would probably have been 55% stay/45% leave. If you'd done the vote 10 years ago it would have been 60% stay/40% leave, and the poll actually taken in 1975 was 67% stay/33% leave.
Leaving the EU right at this moment may seem like a bad idea, but from the historical perspective it's the most efficiently timed revolution that's ever been.
It's clear that being part of the EU was causing a slow buildup of problems for the English people. Dissatisfaction was on the rise, and there were valid reasons for wanting change.
The EU is blithely unsupportive of the needs of its members - it's like any government who, once they are in power, tends to ignore the needs of its people. Looking at Greece as an example, it's clear that the EU puts the needs of the banks ahead of the needs of Greece as a country. As many people pointed out, the EU could have just let Greece default and the banks take a loss. That would have been the best outcome for Greece and its people, but the banks...
The EU management saw the referendum coming and did nothing about it. They could easily have swung the vote by making concessions.
And note that earlier, Cameron went to the EU to ask for some relief. It's my understanding that not only did they say "no", they treated him disrespectfully. (And probably were chuckling to themselves saying "what 'ya gonna do - leave? HAH HAH HAH!)
And now I hear that even if the UK manages to reverse the referendum, France, Germany, and Brussels won't let them. The EU in general didn't like the UK to begin with, are glad to see them go, and will enforce the referendum in any case.
Really, it was a bad situation and there'll be tough times at first, but when the dust has settled I think you'll see that this is much better for the English people.
Oh, and about "this is sooooo bad", note that no one has accurately described the flip side of the situation. John Oliver's treatment of the flip side could be summed up as "yes, it's not perfect". It was clear that he, and all the woo in the media, was trumping up all the disadvantages of leaving without addressing or even describing the reasons people wanted to leave.
Lots of people used extreme rhetoric to try to get people to stay (Cameron's various statements were particularly transparent), and it was transparently bullshit.
Once the dust settles, I think the UK will be stronger, more secure, and more satisfied.
No one really wants to be free. It's much safer to have your betters make decisions for you.
The £13.7 billion figure comes from the disproven £350m/day figure (£350m * 365 = £12.8b) that Nigel Farage has described as "a mistake" because it's from *before* the rebate and subsidies; once you take into account the rebate and subsidies it's actually about half that. You are right about the EU choosing who gets the difference, although again that's not the whole picture as most of the money is allocated to projects that would have needed to come out of the public purse anyway - in practice, it's a money-go-round that attempts to make people feel good about the EU because of all the "EU funded" signs when their taxes would have paid for it anyway. Assuming no changes to the level of taxation, there's undeniably going to be more money per annum in the UK public purse once we leave the EU, but after things like additional import/export duties and other potential costs of leaving the EU are factored in, it's anyone's guess as to how much is going to be available to be spent on things like the NHS - and it's going to stay that way at least until all the post Article 50 treaties are hammered out.
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
I think the wise thing to do is write out new elections. If it came to a vote today in parliament to leave the EU, the majority of representatives would say no. If the UK population really wants to leave, let them elect representatives that are in favor of leaving and are responsible for carrying it out. As it stands, 70% of the people's representatives don't want to leave the EU, so how can they be trusted to do this?
European here. Contrary to your belief (as probably induced by the somewhat biased media reports), many European civilians are not mourning at all. Many of us are happy to finally see EU dictatorship come to a halt. The Brits will do fine outside the EU. And so will many other countries.
EU is a failed project, perhaps good for the elite and large companies, but it sucks for ordinary citizens. Unlimited import of society-wrecking hordes, unreal money pits, total neglect for ordinary citizens, destruction of carefully crafted wellfare systems, pensions down the drain, job losses, and mind-boggling burocracy. That's EU for us. This project should return to being an economic powerhouse, without the common currency and without tens of thousands of useless, overpaid burocrats.
The Brits have taken the lead. Will it hurt? Sure! But better to cut the ties now then to stay aboard a ship heading for the cliffs. I expect other countries to follow. The Clash had this in their lyrics: "If I go there will be trouble.. If I stay it will be double!!"
To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
There's no legal reason to overturn it or attempt to overturn it by holding another vote.
If we can successfully petition our representatives to do that then not only is that legal, it's precisely what democracy is about.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Due to the stock exchange crash after the vote UK has lost more money than it has paid into the EU budget for the past 20 years. It is like cutting the nose to spite the face.
But by all means, go. UK has caused far more problems to the EU than it was worth.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
Yeah really. *I had no idea that Trump would actually become president [telegraph.co.uk] just because I voted for him!*
Trump analogy usage aside (#), the interesting thing about that "regretful Brexit voter" story is it appears on the Daily Telegraph website; the Telegraph being the quintessential "quality" broadsheet rag of the right-wing, conservative, "Middle England"- and indeed, "Little Englander"- demographic whose stereotypical reader is a retired colonel in the English home counties.
In short, the paper whose readers- and editors- you would expect to be among the most enthusiastic Brexiteers.
Guess now it's all over there isn't much to lose, given that even Nigel Farage announced the morning after that the "£350m a week for the NHS" figure the Brexit campaign had been spewing about was actually BS. (##)(The same figure that pretty much any unbiased observers had been saying was BS for weeks, but if you repeat a lie enough...)
Anyway, yeah. I bloody regret that she and her countrymen voted that way as well. I also regret that there wasn't an easy way to have her live with the consequences of her decision while I didn't have to. Believe me, I've no sympathy for any of the Little Englanders who for years swallowed (and regurgitated) the endless anti-EU propaganda that used it as a whipping boy for everything under the sun while failing to acknowledge its successes. Oh, what? You didn't really want to leave the EU despite years of saying you did? You didn't realise the consequences of voting leave?
Fuck off. It's too late for you to start crying now. You shat the bed; now you have to lie in it.
(#) It's a legitimate analogy, and makes a point I already suspected regarding Trump voters' "we're voting for him to punish the establishment" mentality. But as someone who lives in Scotland- i.e. currently part of the UK- you'll forgive me if I'm currently more interested in the actual story than its reduction into an analogy for US-centric purposes.
(##) As if- even if they *did* have that extra £350m- UKIP would spend it on the NHS they're ideologically opposed to. (Given UKIP's stereotypcal popularity with defecting members of the right wing of the Conservative party- a faction which is itself known for being blatantly anti-NHS, what the hell would anyone expect?!)
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
It's over millennials. Your parents know better than you and we're hoping you'll grow up and figure that out at some point.
I'm not sure where you're going with that. The demographics of the vote show clearly that millennials and under-50 voters were solidly in the "remain" camp.
Indeed. The NY Times has a few articles about this and an Op-Ed titled Brexit and Europe’s Angry Old Men mentioning a poll over there indicating the older the person, the more likely they were inclined to leave the EU:
Some 64 percent of the age group from 18 to 24 said they would vote for Remain; just 35 percent of those between 50 and 64 wanted to stay.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
My anecdotal experiences have clearly shown that prayer has at least a 50% chance of success, far better than web petitions.
It's not over, it's barely started. Parliament has to notify the EU that it wants to withdraw. And it appears that it's going to need some legal changes made by the Parliaments of Scotland and Northern Ireland before it's allowed to do so. And both of those areas were staunchly "remain", so they may be reluctant to make the needed legal changes.
Also, Scotland appears to have started negotiations for remaining in the EU after Britain leaves. Who knows what the result will be, but if might need to vote to separate from Britain before the effective date of Britain's withdrawal...which might lead the Scottish Parliament to delay making the changes that Britain would need for it's withdrawal.
And, in addition, Britain had just negotiated a set of changes and exemptions from standard EU terms, but which were conditional on the BREXIT vote failing. Those have all been declared invalid, and the negotiators are not pleased. And they are high EU officials.
And the pound had lost 1/3 of it's value during last Friday. Perhaps it will recover, or partially. But many corporations are planning to move their headquarters out of Britain, or to not locate there, or to decline to make loans. Signs of this are already present, but actions probably won't be clearly in motion before Monday.
And the Prime Minister has promised to resign before October, leaving the request to withdraw to his successor. And nobody knows who that will be, though various people have made various unhappy guesses.
And...
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
The leaders in the Leave groups have gotten very bitchy when asked about when the UK will leave and how they will conduct the negotiation. You would think that if they were campaigning for a Leave result in the referendum they would be eager about getting to the leaving part.
One benefit of leaving the EU- fewer problems with Unicode characters.
Another European here. Basically what you said, except the exact opposite.
Most of what you say should result in you looking inward to your own country, not outwards to the EU. Welfare is alive and well (pun intended) in many EU member nations, as is societal integration, pensions, and ... wait what job losses? Unemployment has been steadily dropping the past several years, it's low as it was in 2000 there was this niggling little thing called a global recession in between in which the EU fared quite well compared to many industrialised nations.
There is quite a bit of bureaucracy, but that's the only thing I'll agree with.
As for breaking up the common currency. Pass thanks. Ideally we combined the central banks to prevent each country screwing with the system, but really screw going back to the driving for 1 hour and having to have 3 difference currencies because ... reasons.
I am also an EU citizen.
The only good thing about Brexit is that people like you are soon going to realize what a terrible idea it was. So this poisonous propaganda will stop, and the rest of the union will be saved. I feel sorry for the Brits, though, they will suffer through this crap so that the rest of us don't need to.
Don't believe me? Let's just wait one year, and see what were the short-term consequences of this vote. Then we talk.
entropy happens
You might want to check your math, son.
entropy happens
Dear young Remainers..
65yo+ knew rationing
75yo+ knew the Luftwaffe
90yo+ knew Panzers
They didn't "steal your future", they gave you one.
Progressivism: Parasites helping parasites to help themselves - to other people's stuff.
Living in Belgium, working in Brussels.Many I know are also not mourning at all, but for different reasons.
The UK was never a full member of the EU as we see it. Not signing Schengen, not joining the EURO. Those are the major ones.
So we say: good riddance and we will welcome Scotland and Northern-Ireland. The last as an independent country or as a part of the Republic of Ireland. We have expereience with these situations.
You know why people blame the EU for all these new laws and burocracy? Bceuase it is easier for your local politician to say "I tried, but, you know, Brussels ..." than it is to say that it might be something unfavourable, but better in the end.
Is it 100% perfect? Obviously not, but it is better than having all these countries compete with each other. I live in Belgium. My sister lives in Germany, my parents in Spain and this since before the EURO, so I know what it is without all these advantages.
Roaming cost will be something of the past very soon. I can go to any country and buy something wiithout paying extra taxes or import things (some exceptions apply) and I can work anywhere I like.
So yes, for me the EU has more advantages than it has disadvantages and loosing a nagging UK will only benefit that. Will it hurt? A little bit perhaps as the markets panick. For the EU this will even out. For the UK? Probably not. They will be worse off, but who cares?
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
I remember when we went to the Euro. People all said it would be worse and we would loose money and what not. The Euroa was apparently a very bad idea.
Not sure in other countries, but in Belgium prices did not jump besides the standard increases. And what is more important, the money they used WAS already a Euro. It was just named differently in each and every country.
A bit like the Imperial system that uses the Inch, but is actually SI where it is fixed how long an inch is comaperd to cm. So if the cm changes, the inch changes.
Same with the euro, before it was real monies. You Franc, Guilder or Mark where fixed to the EUR.
And then that first trip from living in Belgium, visiting friends in The Netherlands, to my sister in Germany and then a trip to my parents in Spain, all within a week and no need to change money. Delightfull.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.