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Web Petition For 2nd EU Referendum Draws Huge Interest (ap.org)
From an Associated Press report:An online petition seeking a second referendum on a British exit from the Europe Union has drawn more than 1.6 million names, a measure of the extraordinary divisiveness of Thursday's vote to leave the 28-nation bloc. The online petition site hosted by the House of Commons website even crashed Friday under the weight of the activity as officials said they'd seen unprecedented interest in the measure, which calls on the government to implement a rule that stating if that if "remain" or "leave" camps won less than 60 percent of the vote with less than a 75 percent turnout "there should be another referendum."According to reports, this is the biggest surge of support Parliament's website has ever seen. Looking at the keywords people were hitting up on Google after the news first broke, it was clear that a considerable portion of the population was clueless about the whole situation.
Might as well go pray. Has about the same effect.
How cute, the democratic result didn't go our way so we'll make a new referendum with skewed option balance. This surely will make our way the only way!
Should I stay or should I go
What a rotten party, have we run out of beer or something?
This is how government works. Keep having referendums until the voters get it right.
My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
How could anyone have remained clueless with the wall to wall coverage? More importantly, why should anyone that apathetic be taken seriously now?
The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
We didn't get the vote we wanted. Lets vote again.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
There is no such clause in the legislation that governed the referendum; he's asking the government to "implement a rule" by changing the rules after the fact, not implement a clause that was present in the legislation.
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
This is a perfect example of why life changing decisions should be by a super majority of votes, 60% or more. Making such a big change like exiting the EU on the whim of a 50% vote is moronic. :/
~~~Please pass the salt, I hate unsalted MD5s
Here's the best analogy so far...
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
I hope this serves as a warning for the ignorant people considering a vote for Donald or Hillery.
There corrected that for you.
Yeah really. *I had no idea that Trump would actually become president just because I voted for him!*
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
About 22 million of people voted for "stay". They can have all of them to sign the petition, they still remain the minority. This is supposed to be they way democracy works, or is internet changing the rules ?!?
You know what? Tough shit. You had plenty of time to research the issue *before* the vote. But no, it only occurred people to even do something as paltry as a freaking google search, AFTER the vote had already taken place.
It's about fucking time people actually started taking responsibility for their actions. It's this "Oh whoopsie! I didn't mean to do that! I want backsies!" bullshit that is the reason why the entire world is deteriorating before our very eyes.... because people can't be bothered to spend two lousy seconds to stop and think about what they're going to do, before they actually do it.
What's the phrase? Measure twice, cut once? Well guess what... That little rule applies to a hell of a lot more than just cutting wood.
But of course, I'm just pissing in the wind. (Which is amazingly difficult to do from a squatting position, let me assure you...) The average person isn't going to make any effort to change, and the world is going to get even more fucked up than it is now.
The only thing that is going to happen is that those with both the foresight and the means to protect themselves, will hunker down and wait while everyone else blows a gasket and likely start killing each other.
So you are advocating allowing vote-buying?
Seriously, in order to get that data you would need an economic system of some sort. The best one we have is capitalism. So if you want people to vote the strength of their preference, charge per vote and allow multiple votes.
If you don't want the voting biased towards people that are successful at making the economy work, give everyone 100 votes when they are born, and 10 votes per year.
while (sig==sig) sig=!sig;
I understand, that the referendum result is not actually legally binding, but that the PM/government has committed to act on it anyway.
It is an advice/instruction to the government to begin separation proceedings, and once the UK conservatives have elected a new prime minister, they may well bring a question to parliament. Do we issue an Article50 to the EU and enact/create the appropriate legislation to support this.
Now the people in UK have voted (barely!) in fafor of an exit. But the people in the UK have no constitutional powers. That responsibility is granted to Parliament by the Crown/Queen.
So.. all it would take, is the question being put in the house, and for enough MP's to rebel such that the motion fails and is not passed. Hence no Article50 and no brexit.
Then it becomes a matter for payback at the next General election....
You do realise the Bits are part of the EU?
And thus the pro-EU media speak for them.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
I'd prefer a united Ireland and an independent Schotland in the EU and a high Trump-like wall between Scotland and England to secure the EU outer frontiers, like the Brits always wanted. :-)
Germand car companies repatriating their English car factories (Mini, Vauxhall, Rolls Royce, Bentley etc) is a given, 5 Chinese banks already moved to Luxemburg, others will follow.
It will be a mighty small empire when this is finished.
I hope this serves as a warning for the ignorant Americans considering not voting, when faced with a vote for Donald or Hillery.
That's more correct.
And (pick your favorite US minority) are American citizens, too, so Congress speaks for them?
A supermajority requirement is to politics what hysteresis is to control loops. It's not even an analogy, just two words for the same concept really.
Youâ(TM)ll be back, soon youâ(TM)ll see Youâ(TM)ll remember you belong to me Youâ(TM)ll be back, time will tell Youâ(TM)ll remember that I served you well Oceans rise, empires fall We have seen each other through it all
Thirty four characters live here.
It's over millennials. Your parents know better than you and we're hoping you'll grow up and figure that out at some point.
I'm not sure where you're going with that. The demographics of the vote show clearly that millennials and under-50 voters were solidly in the "remain" camp.
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
Try to remember who is your Head of State :)
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
Shhhh, it's something we want, don't spoil it now by adding sanity.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
How about a third referendum if the second referendum ends up with an "exit" vote too?
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
Is that perl?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I hope this serves as a warning for the ignorant people considering a vote for Donald or Hillery.
There corrected that for you.
I hope this serves as a warning for the ignorant people considering a vote for Donald or Hillary.
There I corrected that for you.
Your comment is ignorant. There's no proof whatsoever that going against free trade had hurt anyone. Call it protectionism or whatever you want. In America we've had NAFTA and WTO free trade agreements that have killed the American labor force. I've seen it since the 1990s. The corporations lead a strong PACs that want you to believe how much better off you are now than going against their wishes. People like Romney fill their pockets at the expense of the middle class.
You people that support free global trade are the same ones whining about H1B, product dumping, and speaking to foreigners whilst calling Concast.
Can't have it both ways folks.
Aren't these the same people who voted to name their latest naval ship Boaty McBoatface? Astley for Prime Minister - he's never gonna give you up!
Basically the only only argument they could come up for staying was 'better the devil you know than the one you don't'
love is just extroverted narcissism
The citizens are the ones signing this petition.
And yeah, given the leave campaign's lies disintegrated the day the result was called, Iit's pretty clear what is the right result.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
A recent web petition revealed that a large majority of US citizens want Muslim immigration stopped.
I find it hard to believe that the majority (50%+1) of US citizens even participated on the petition, let along the vast majority.
And if it wasn't the vast majority actually participating, then you fall into statistics. And statistics require methodology. What was the methodology for the sampling? What was the error margin? Standard deviation?
No wonder you are posting anonymously. You are a moron.
morcego
Well, you wouldn't want the wrong lizard in office...
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
The result was very narrow. The turn-out was relatively low for such an important decision. A lot of people are expressing regret, the victorious side instantly reneged on a number of promises and the predicted economic meltdown that people didn't believe would happen happened.
Yep. Lots of reasons to disavow a democratically voted referendum.
Can you think of any reason why disavowing the vote would be bad?
I don't have a dog in this fight, but a (Brit) friend asked me about this a couple of months ago. The conversation went like this:
Him: Should I vote for the UK to leave the EU?
Me: Yes, absolutely.
Him: Why?
Me: Because if you don't, nothing will change
Expounding on that last bit, note that if the vote had happened 5 years ago the results would probably have been 55% stay/45% leave. If you'd done the vote 10 years ago it would have been 60% stay/40% leave, and the poll actually taken in 1975 was 67% stay/33% leave.
Leaving the EU right at this moment may seem like a bad idea, but from the historical perspective it's the most efficiently timed revolution that's ever been.
It's clear that being part of the EU was causing a slow buildup of problems for the English people. Dissatisfaction was on the rise, and there were valid reasons for wanting change.
The EU is blithely unsupportive of the needs of its members - it's like any government who, once they are in power, tends to ignore the needs of its people. Looking at Greece as an example, it's clear that the EU puts the needs of the banks ahead of the needs of Greece as a country. As many people pointed out, the EU could have just let Greece default and the banks take a loss. That would have been the best outcome for Greece and its people, but the banks...
The EU management saw the referendum coming and did nothing about it. They could easily have swung the vote by making concessions.
And note that earlier, Cameron went to the EU to ask for some relief. It's my understanding that not only did they say "no", they treated him disrespectfully. (And probably were chuckling to themselves saying "what 'ya gonna do - leave? HAH HAH HAH!)
And now I hear that even if the UK manages to reverse the referendum, France, Germany, and Brussels won't let them. The EU in general didn't like the UK to begin with, are glad to see them go, and will enforce the referendum in any case.
Really, it was a bad situation and there'll be tough times at first, but when the dust has settled I think you'll see that this is much better for the English people.
Oh, and about "this is sooooo bad", note that no one has accurately described the flip side of the situation. John Oliver's treatment of the flip side could be summed up as "yes, it's not perfect". It was clear that he, and all the woo in the media, was trumping up all the disadvantages of leaving without addressing or even describing the reasons people wanted to leave.
Lots of people used extreme rhetoric to try to get people to stay (Cameron's various statements were particularly transparent), and it was transparently bullshit.
Once the dust settles, I think the UK will be stronger, more secure, and more satisfied.
No one really wants to be free. It's much safer to have your betters make decisions for you.
Why is this insightful?
We've not had independence for any time at all. Article 50 has not been invoked and it will take 2 years from that date anyway.
And also, petitioning one's representatives is an inherent part of democracy. It's curious how many people are coming out right and stating how much they disagree with democratic processes on this thread.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
I think that the way President Obama basically threatened the UK voters might actually have had a negative effect. A lot of people react badly to threats choosing to act out of spite. It was a foolish action and in the end left egg on his face and now he's petulant that they went against his wishes.
You conveniently keep forgetting all these countries signing up to EU treaties do so with consent of their democratically elected parliament, it's called 'representative democracy' and it generally works fine.
The idea of EU tyranny is utter rubbish, any of the member states has the ability to pull the plug on any rules the EU proposes.
Plus since a couple of years the EU parliament can stop such legislation.
http://www.europeanlawmonitor.org/how-do-i/eu-law-getting-an-eu-proposal-blocked-in-the-european-parliament.html
Oh and by the way, your view of the present Germans including Merkel couldn't be more wrong.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
so the pro-EU media promotes a second referendum to get the "right" result.
You mean like the Sun, the biggest newspaper in the country?
Fucking moron.
You're entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
It was no less a champion of freedom than Ben Franklin who said,
We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately.
I'm thinking Thursday's vote demonstrated that England and Wales prefer the latter.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
European here. Contrary to your belief (as probably induced by the somewhat biased media reports), many European civilians are not mourning at all. Many of us are happy to finally see EU dictatorship come to a halt. The Brits will do fine outside the EU. And so will many other countries.
EU is a failed project, perhaps good for the elite and large companies, but it sucks for ordinary citizens. Unlimited import of society-wrecking hordes, unreal money pits, total neglect for ordinary citizens, destruction of carefully crafted wellfare systems, pensions down the drain, job losses, and mind-boggling burocracy. That's EU for us. This project should return to being an economic powerhouse, without the common currency and without tens of thousands of useless, overpaid burocrats.
The Brits have taken the lead. Will it hurt? Sure! But better to cut the ties now then to stay aboard a ship heading for the cliffs. I expect other countries to follow. The Clash had this in their lyrics: "If I go there will be trouble.. If I stay it will be double!!"
To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
Democracy happened. As much as the result sucks, You can't say 'ah crap... best of 3?' and expect to be taken seriously.
The EU is bad for the UK. Thus the pro-EU media hate them and want them to suffer.
See how easy that is?
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
I'd just mandate voting (being careful to keep it anonymous so we don't go full North Korea, you never go full North Korea). It's a civic duty. Like Jury. You should have to do it. Always.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
As a Swiss citizen, with several decades of experience in direct democracy, I'm half amazed and half amused at this whole Brexit referendum fiasco.
The quote says "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility". With the referendum, the UK people received a great power, but certainly were not aware of the associated great responsibilty.
Consequences, like the generation split or the secession of members of the Union were not even discussed.
There might be a lesson to learn - let nations first try direct democracy on simpler issues before asking them important questions.
While such naivete does tend to be rampant among the population at large, you are addressing people who tend to be a bit smarter and more capable of critical thinking than the rest - or yourself for that matter.
The UK is making billions on trade with the EU, so what part of the EU is bad for the UK???
And because trade on international scale is reciprocal so will the ex-EU partners suffer from this split.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
75% turn out of a vote is not low. It's noticeably higher than being statistically significant. So result probably won't be different if you include more people.
Yeah really. *I had no idea that Trump would actually become president [telegraph.co.uk] just because I voted for him!*
Trump analogy usage aside (#), the interesting thing about that "regretful Brexit voter" story is it appears on the Daily Telegraph website; the Telegraph being the quintessential "quality" broadsheet rag of the right-wing, conservative, "Middle England"- and indeed, "Little Englander"- demographic whose stereotypical reader is a retired colonel in the English home counties.
In short, the paper whose readers- and editors- you would expect to be among the most enthusiastic Brexiteers.
Guess now it's all over there isn't much to lose, given that even Nigel Farage announced the morning after that the "£350m a week for the NHS" figure the Brexit campaign had been spewing about was actually BS. (##)(The same figure that pretty much any unbiased observers had been saying was BS for weeks, but if you repeat a lie enough...)
Anyway, yeah. I bloody regret that she and her countrymen voted that way as well. I also regret that there wasn't an easy way to have her live with the consequences of her decision while I didn't have to. Believe me, I've no sympathy for any of the Little Englanders who for years swallowed (and regurgitated) the endless anti-EU propaganda that used it as a whipping boy for everything under the sun while failing to acknowledge its successes. Oh, what? You didn't really want to leave the EU despite years of saying you did? You didn't realise the consequences of voting leave?
Fuck off. It's too late for you to start crying now. You shat the bed; now you have to lie in it.
(#) It's a legitimate analogy, and makes a point I already suspected regarding Trump voters' "we're voting for him to punish the establishment" mentality. But as someone who lives in Scotland- i.e. currently part of the UK- you'll forgive me if I'm currently more interested in the actual story than its reduction into an analogy for US-centric purposes.
(##) As if- even if they *did* have that extra £350m- UKIP would spend it on the NHS they're ideologically opposed to. (Given UKIP's stereotypcal popularity with defecting members of the right wing of the Conservative party- a faction which is itself known for being blatantly anti-NHS, what the hell would anyone expect?!)
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
Of course, you want Cthulhu. Lizards? Heh. Why vote for lesser evil?
Ezekiel 23:20
I'm not sure it's the only problem in that case, but I think it is an important one in general. That's one reason you should pay for voting. I mean proportionally to your income of course, like taxes.
And still, with all that stuff going on, the population of the UK voted for a parliament where 'remain' gets a 70% vote. If the UK wants to leave the EU, they should at least have the wits to vote in representatives that want it too. They didn't. So what now? Ignore the democratic institutions that are set up to handle exactly these kind of questions?
It's actually quite ironic. The population of the UK mistrusts their own representatives so much that they have the need to counteract them in a referendum that in the end will give these same representatives that they mistrust a must greater power over their lives. People are just stupid I guess.
It's over millennials. Your parents know better than you and we're hoping you'll grow up and figure that out at some point.
I'm not sure where you're going with that. The demographics of the vote show clearly that millennials and under-50 voters were solidly in the "remain" camp.
Indeed. The NY Times has a few articles about this and an Op-Ed titled Brexit and Europe’s Angry Old Men mentioning a poll over there indicating the older the person, the more likely they were inclined to leave the EU:
Some 64 percent of the age group from 18 to 24 said they would vote for Remain; just 35 percent of those between 50 and 64 wanted to stay.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Your argument is specious because neither you nor I have any idea what would have happened without NAFTA or WTO free trade agreements. It might very well have been the case that the rest of the world moved on and left the U.S. to sink into an island fortress getting steadily poorer.
This is just thwe worst of all the most self-righteous PeeCee undemocratic morons that can't deal with the fact that they actually lost something fair and square.
I remember back in 2008 when they were voting for TARP. The first vote failed and the stock market crashed. So they put a bunch of pork into it and voted again saying DON'T FUCK THIS UP GUYS LAST TIME YOU FUCKED IT UP AND YOU CAUSED THE STOCK MARKET TO CRASH. So they voted for it this time and the stock market crashed again. I was watching it on C-SPAN while monitoring the market.
They want to play on people's fear and point to the markets around the world reacting negatively to try to change the vote. But I think the market reaction was more about the uncertainty than anything else. Long term the financial impact won't be a very big deal. They will make trade agreements with the EU to effectively get back to the same place.
It's removing one devil, but there's still one left.
Unless abolishing politicians completely was part of the deal. If it was, I missed that.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Is that a bad argument? It's pretty much the same as "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", which should be obeyed a lot more than it is.
Yes Lennart, I did glance at you.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
If the house votes to ignore the referendum result it may not exist for much longer.
It wouldn't be civil war but you wouldn't want shares in an insurance company.
Do these morons not understand that this will paralyze democracy?
If the losing side can scream for a "do over" every vote, democracy itself is doomed.
-Styopa
My heavy investment in extrua Us in words that reallyu don't need them has prettyu much tanked. Althouugh I'm trying to divest them quuickly, I fear I may be left with a vast uunsellable oveurstock!
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
The petition says you must be a UK citizen or resident to vote. It ask you for your name. It asks what country you live in and your postcode. And it asks for your e-mail address. You then have to click the link in the e-mail they send.
For example I'm a UK citizen and I currently live in Spain after spending many years in France.
There are many expats who have invested their life in EU countries, because you know, European Union right? They are now having the rug pulled from under their feet. And they did not get the chance to vote. The people most directly affected didn't get a vote.
No, your children are not the special ones. Nor are your pets.
So, instead of having a legal process, institute a system of endless haggling and 're-haggling so nothing ever gets done.
Fuck that. Learn to fucking cope with reality you special snowflakes.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
My anecdotal experiences have clearly shown that prayer has at least a 50% chance of success, far better than web petitions.
It's not over, it's barely started. Parliament has to notify the EU that it wants to withdraw. And it appears that it's going to need some legal changes made by the Parliaments of Scotland and Northern Ireland before it's allowed to do so. And both of those areas were staunchly "remain", so they may be reluctant to make the needed legal changes.
Also, Scotland appears to have started negotiations for remaining in the EU after Britain leaves. Who knows what the result will be, but if might need to vote to separate from Britain before the effective date of Britain's withdrawal...which might lead the Scottish Parliament to delay making the changes that Britain would need for it's withdrawal.
And, in addition, Britain had just negotiated a set of changes and exemptions from standard EU terms, but which were conditional on the BREXIT vote failing. Those have all been declared invalid, and the negotiators are not pleased. And they are high EU officials.
And the pound had lost 1/3 of it's value during last Friday. Perhaps it will recover, or partially. But many corporations are planning to move their headquarters out of Britain, or to not locate there, or to decline to make loans. Signs of this are already present, but actions probably won't be clearly in motion before Monday.
And the Prime Minister has promised to resign before October, leaving the request to withdraw to his successor. And nobody knows who that will be, though various people have made various unhappy guesses.
And...
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Queen Elizabeth II, the Queen of Canada, not to be confused with Queen Elizabeth II, Queen of the United Kingdom.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
It wasn't a narrow vote, but it also wasn't "nationwide". Scotland and Northern Ireland voted "remain" with sizable majorities. Scotland, at least, is likely to break off from the UK over this violation of the promises made a year ago that their membership in the EU would be protected if they voted not to split from the UK. And Northern Ireland might do the same, because it was the EU that was the peace treaty guarantor with (Catholic) Ireland.
So. Interesting times. You can't do just one thing.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
People are using this script to sign the petition. Still think all those votes are legitimate?
For all intensive porpoises your a bunch of rediculous loosers
The leaders in the Leave groups have gotten very bitchy when asked about when the UK will leave and how they will conduct the negotiation. You would think that if they were campaigning for a Leave result in the referendum they would be eager about getting to the leaving part.
One benefit of leaving the EU- fewer problems with Unicode characters.
It's not just Scotland. Similar noises are coming out of Ireland as well. All the king's horses and all the king's men won't put this thing together again.
And we Americans will love it if the UK breaks up. After all, we did it ourselves. Plus, we're monolingual, so as far as we're concerned, the more English speaking countries there are in the world, the better!
But did young people vote? I think most of them stayed home, at least much more than the other age groups...big mistake!
The reason the most-recent Democrat "gun control" attempts failed is PRECISELY because so many NRA members DO care about the other amendments too. The bills the Democrats proposed last week proposed to prevent people on the "no fly" list from buying guns, but the Republicans objected because the bills included no "due process" to permit people to find out if some bureaucrat had placed them on one of those lists and no way to get off such a list.
It has been argued (though many like me disagree) that the "no fly" list is a tiny bit less obnoxious because flying on an airliner is not a Constitutional right and people choose whether or not to go to an airport and pay somebody to fly them around on an airplane. Things like lists to prevent people from access to lawyers, or prevent free speech, or prevent self-defense are an extra level of obnoxious. These lists are fundamentally un-American when applied any Constitutional Rights. In the USA, we are not supposed to deprive somebody of his Constitutional rights anytime some anonymous paper-pusher puts that person's name on a list.
The Republicans tried to compromise, placing two bills in play that risked angering their NRA member backers, but adding-in a requirement for due process.... and the Democrats voted those down.
There is no honest way to declare that NRA members do not care about due process, or search-and-siezure issues. With their votes last week the Democrats proved they do not care about those issues and the NRA and the Republicans proved that they do.
No, not betters, just somebody else. That's the whole point of western education: don't bother your little heads, just let us tell you what to think.
I hope this serves as a warning for the ignorant people considering a vote for Donald or Hillery.
There corrected that for you.
I hope this serves as a warning for the ignorant people considering a vote for Donald or Hillary.
There I corrected that for you.
I hope this serves as a warning for the ignorant people considering a vote for Dolan or Killary.
There I corrected that for you.
"I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole
Actually no. This is not how democracy is supposed to work. Democracy is not supposed to be a tool for any majority to completely dominate minorities. Minority rights, compromise and balance are very important. Which is why direct democracy is frowned upon and is actually really bad for a population of more than a couple hundred people.
AFAIK the current UK government has a majority in parliament, even though they only received a popular vote of 37% with 66% of people voting.
Even without the apostrophe that's a total load of garbage.
http://www.bbc.com/news/busine...
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Have a word with that nice Mr Putin, I'm sure he'd be happy to oblige.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
It doesn't mean you're equally good at making everything, though.
If you were, there'd be no point in trading in the first place. Law of comparative advantage and all that.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
They questioned the results of their betters, so the pro-EU media promotes a second referendum to get the "right" result. Never mind that the second poll has largely been faked.
Naturally, such a post would attract tons of pro-EU shills to attack my post.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
While I understand it might be difficult to see them choose freedom, but the Remain side is lying.
Globalism lost, the British won.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
It requires the UK to follow the EU's lead, disenfranchising their own country.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Another European here. Basically what you said, except the exact opposite.
Most of what you say should result in you looking inward to your own country, not outwards to the EU. Welfare is alive and well (pun intended) in many EU member nations, as is societal integration, pensions, and ... wait what job losses? Unemployment has been steadily dropping the past several years, it's low as it was in 2000 there was this niggling little thing called a global recession in between in which the EU fared quite well compared to many industrialised nations.
There is quite a bit of bureaucracy, but that's the only thing I'll agree with.
As for breaking up the common currency. Pass thanks. Ideally we combined the central banks to prevent each country screwing with the system, but really screw going back to the driving for 1 hour and having to have 3 difference currencies because ... reasons.
I am also an EU citizen.
The only good thing about Brexit is that people like you are soon going to realize what a terrible idea it was. So this poisonous propaganda will stop, and the rest of the union will be saved. I feel sorry for the Brits, though, they will suffer through this crap so that the rest of us don't need to.
Don't believe me? Let's just wait one year, and see what were the short-term consequences of this vote. Then we talk.
entropy happens
Calling the people of Britain racist for voting out is ridiculous Europeans are the same race.
Tell this to the British that hate the Polish.
entropy happens
Indeed. Most people follow their society's laws and norms because they're sheeple, unlike you who do your own thing which only happens to be indistinguishable from following regulations someone else made by pure, amazing coincidence.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
If that is the case it will seriously hinder their standing in the EU. Every single top EU representative and bureaucrat wants them gone NOW, they have enough of Britain always crying that they would leave. Staying in would likely be very expensive. Good-Bye to any special benefits and rebates, and on top of that a likely Good-Bye to Scotland possibly Northern Ireland too. ...
Besides, the EU is already looking for ways to kick them out if they attempt to not trigger Article 50. Not sure if they manage but they can make their life pretty difficult as many decisions are majority based and they can just pretend Britain is not in the EU anymore
The part where non-democratic governments are bad. The part where growing centralized power never ends well (75 years ago Britain had a rather different view of a unified Europe). Hey, if you want to trade democracy for slightly cheaper consumer goods, that's your vote. Others voted otherwise. But don't assume your conclusion when making your argument.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Dear young Remainers..
65yo+ knew rationing
75yo+ knew the Luftwaffe
90yo+ knew Panzers
They didn't "steal your future", they gave you one.
Progressivism: Parasites helping parasites to help themselves - to other people's stuff.
My my, so much anger and so little knowledge!
The sovereign people of the EU should be able to make laws, so far they can only write 'frameworks' that the individual states need to turn into national law.
Such laws need to pass their national parliament what can refuse passing it if they fill it's not in the interest of the nation.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
It's real simple: smug, superior-feeling people like me *believe* in dictators and oppression. Why? Because democracy is evil; it allows the stupid common people a chance to use quaint concepts like "majority" to "lord it over" those of us (such as myself) who are smarter and more deserving (because *our* ideas are better and way of thinking better) of authority and the *privilege* of voting. Brexit is perfect example of *why* most people (regardless of "skin" color) should *not* be allowed to vote. "WE" wanted you STUPID FUCKS to have a "choice" between Hillary and Jeb. Some how, some way, we screwed up. This time. Same thing with Brexit. That's ok. We ARE watchingâ"STUPID FUCKS. It's ok. We still have Hillary in the race, ignorant masses. We haven't finished, yet.
-- "I'm not in a hurry; I'm in Hawaii." The Homeless Guy
. . . these signatories are only 1.6 million of Kim Kardashian's fake twitter followers.
The law is not an ass. No really.
Your comment is ignorant. There's no proof whatsoever that going against free trade had hurt anyone. Call it protectionism or whatever you want. In America we've had NAFTA and WTO free trade agreements that have killed the American labor force. I've seen it since the 1990s. The corporations lead a strong PACs that want you to believe how much better off you are now than going against their wishes. People like Romney fill their pockets at the expense of the middle class.
You people that support free global trade are the same ones whining about H1B, product dumping, and speaking to foreigners whilst calling Concast.
Can't have it both ways folks.
I guess that you believe Nafta is a bad deal. I think so too. Canadians don't need American cars, or agriculture products. We don't need Kellogs, Heinze, Campbells, or things like Oranges, Greens like Lettuce, tomatoes, and more. We don't need American cars-- Keep Ford, GM, Chrysler away.
We can get every agricultural product from Africa, Mexico, or Latin America at good prices and equal quality. Yes, Naftha was a great benefit to the USA, Canada should renegotiate that trade deal to get out of it. We could have a better deal buying and selling with the world,
Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
The remainers are a bunch of sore losers. Even resorting to hacking the petition site to increase the numbers! We are our own country again, instead of a state in a larger one.
I find it really amusing that some in the Remain camp are complaining that this was too close a vote for such an important topic.
Might I remind everyone that this was a slightly larger win, percentage-wise, than Obama's "landslide" re-election victory over Romney. (Maybe we should have a do-over on that one too.) If this had been a 50.5% to 49.5% Remain victory then this would have been considered Settled Once And For All.
If you cared so damn much you should have got your ass out and voted in the first place.
If you really want to prove right all of the people who are angry that they're not being listened to and that the government doesn't care what they have to say, then ignore this vote. The reason we don't have armed revolts is because people have the ballot box. Eventually you'll get what you deserve if you take that away from them.
Surprise, I was around all these years during which Europe slowly build up treaty after treaty to what is now the EU.
Except for the UK government very few complained, it was and it is a damn good idea to bring together people that live so closely together and have a similar culture.
Yes even though there is diversity these present 28 countries do have a closely related culture compared to Africa or Asia.
Your idea of Merkel importing Jew haters is preposterous and to suggest such is beyond the pale.
Remember that in 1946 even Churchill called for a United States of Europe, we were very much used to that idea but also knew it would need a careful and thus slow build up, it was only later that extreme left and right wingers (like Margaret Thacher was and Corbyn looks like he is) started to moan because they saw they were losing the chance to achieve their own goals.
The anti-EU groups are without exception playing the populist card instilling fear for something unknown and like Boris and Nigel shamelessly bending the truth.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
Yes, but this isn't just any old web petition. This one was implemented by the House of Commons, and is capable of demonstrating that enough people were either ill informed, or complety ignorant of the whole thing until after the votes were cast, Clueless, in fact, just as the OP stated.. Typical citizens behavor, in fact. Bet you if they hold another the result would be waay different this time.....
Indeed. The NY Times has a few articles about this and an Op-Ed titled Brexit and Europe’s Angry Old Men mentioning a poll over there indicating the older the person, the more likely they were inclined to leave the EU:
That's because the older ones can remember what Britain was like before EU compliance turned GB unto a financial and political armed camp. Unfortunately, now, the damage is done, and the younger ones understand the damage that leaving would do...
First off I voted out, the main reason was because I do not want to be ruled by someone I did not vote for or more importantly I can vote out if I don't like what they are doing. Secondly because our country is overcrowded we are a small island and cannot cope with the number of people we have already and the EU's policy of free movement means we cannot control how many people come to the UK. Thirdly I think economically the EU is doomed. Greece is on life support, Italy, Spain France and Portugal are all struggling. One currency and one economic policy does not make sense with such diverse countries. Staying in would have meant we would have been pulled down with them, so all this postulation that we are better in the EU rather than out is just a guess and therefore no better than my guess that we will be better out of it.
I am appalled at a) the Scots who think that just because all their voting regions voted stay they have some right to block the rest of the UK who voted by majority of over 1 million people to leave the EU. That's not democracy, you can't just elect to ignore a referendum because it doesn't suit you. The majority of the UK voted out, that's it, grow up and accept democracy!
b) I am appalled at how biased the BBC have been throughout the lead up and after the referendum. It's very noticeable that the London area was one of the few parts of England that wanted to remain and the once highly trusted BBC have favoured the remain campaign, none of the totally bogus arguments have been seriously questioned by the BBC. Tonight I was watching them interviewing a couple at the Glastonbury festival. They were remain voters who moaned about the result, why was there no interview with 2 other youngsters who wanted to come out?! The BBC has lost my support over this they were and still are biased in favour of remain.
If the London bubble doesn't sit up and listen to the rest of the UK and pay attention to what we have told them, I am seriously worried about what the consequences will be. I really do think that the political elite in the UK are becoming so far removed from the vast majority of the country that we could be heading for a major revolt. The hard working people who live North of Watford Gap are sick of the London elite thinking that what they want is right for the rest of us! It's not!
Martley, Near Worcester UK.
Me and my friend, we did not vote, we thought we could simply sign a petition the next day to cancel the referendum if we happen to lose. :)
When a politician resorts to calling for a referendum, it's very exactly admitting s/he cannot take the issue in charge.
Elected people are supposed to be most responsible persons, carefully selected to take in charge unexpected problems to come -not jupt people that'll call referendums for any new problem.
Otherwise we can as well replace them with automated polling machines.
I for one am not at all for direct democracy, in which obviously the majority of voter do not know all consequences.
Ideally we should vote for people we really are confident in, whose curriculum among others should be convincing -but there are fewer and fewer such, perhaps because of the way political parties work, perhaps because of the way media raise our attention (only to the most shocking out of them, etc.)
Direct democracy elects Hitlers.
This, said by a French citizen, whose country's referendum directly voted against the European Constitution, a mark I'll keep till my death.
Herve S.
If you vote Leave to say "fuck the establishment and especially fuck the Tories" that's your right.
That should be it's own option.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
But did young people vote? I think most of them stayed home, at least much more than the other age groups...big mistake!
Well, the Boaty McBoatface election proved their vote would be ignored.
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
I'm worried the Brits are now gonna play hard to loose. And using that as leverage in the upcomming trade deals.
I'm afraid this will take half a decade at least to settle.
I'm afraid you are right. They are going to try to drag this crap as long as possible. And this would be a deadly blow to the EU. I hope they see this and refuse to play along.
entropy happens
Living in Belgium, working in Brussels.Many I know are also not mourning at all, but for different reasons.
The UK was never a full member of the EU as we see it. Not signing Schengen, not joining the EURO. Those are the major ones.
So we say: good riddance and we will welcome Scotland and Northern-Ireland. The last as an independent country or as a part of the Republic of Ireland. We have expereience with these situations.
You know why people blame the EU for all these new laws and burocracy? Bceuase it is easier for your local politician to say "I tried, but, you know, Brussels ..." than it is to say that it might be something unfavourable, but better in the end.
Is it 100% perfect? Obviously not, but it is better than having all these countries compete with each other. I live in Belgium. My sister lives in Germany, my parents in Spain and this since before the EURO, so I know what it is without all these advantages.
Roaming cost will be something of the past very soon. I can go to any country and buy something wiithout paying extra taxes or import things (some exceptions apply) and I can work anywhere I like.
So yes, for me the EU has more advantages than it has disadvantages and loosing a nagging UK will only benefit that. Will it hurt? A little bit perhaps as the markets panick. For the EU this will even out. For the UK? Probably not. They will be worse off, but who cares?
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
I remember when we went to the Euro. People all said it would be worse and we would loose money and what not. The Euroa was apparently a very bad idea.
Not sure in other countries, but in Belgium prices did not jump besides the standard increases. And what is more important, the money they used WAS already a Euro. It was just named differently in each and every country.
A bit like the Imperial system that uses the Inch, but is actually SI where it is fixed how long an inch is comaperd to cm. So if the cm changes, the inch changes.
Same with the euro, before it was real monies. You Franc, Guilder or Mark where fixed to the EUR.
And then that first trip from living in Belgium, visiting friends in The Netherlands, to my sister in Germany and then a trip to my parents in Spain, all within a week and no need to change money. Delightfull.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
wouldnt she be queen Elizabeth I of canada. unless you had another one and didnt tell us...
Not sure in other countries, but in Belgium prices did not jump besides the standard increases.
My grandma tells me that things got incredibly expensive. She constantly tells me stories of how many shillings something cost and then shows me a tattered old conversion chart she was given when Austria joined the EU.
And that's kind of fundamentally the point. People take a reference and compare it with the assumption that nothing changes. As if the shilling would magically experience 20 years of zero inflation, and society would experience 20 years of fixed prices. But there's no telling them that.
Wow. That was fast. Merkel will not play along.
entropy happens
we imported £23.9 billion more from the EU than we exported to it in the first quarter of this year alone. go us.
Yea, it's weird numbering. I guess it's how she chose to be called and she is the Queen.
Prince William will be even weirder if he becomes King as the first 3 were only Kings of England so really he'd be King William the 5th and 2nd but I think will be known as the 5th even in places like Scotland.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
So, this makes some sense. MOST people prefer to keep their heads in the sand. Keep having referendums until a vast majority of the constituents show they UNDERSTAND the issues and that they are casting an educated vote.
YET - the referendum needs to verify that the voter understands the issue and ramifications. History has proven that many people vote blindly, and that is bad for everyone.
So, then, it is first and foremost a necessity to EDUCATE the constituency before asking their choice. One cannot paint the walls when the walls are not yet completed!
When 75%-plus finally do vote, then the referendum outcome will, indeed, show a much better representation of the majority of the people.
Self-importance and self-indulgence is the root of ALL evil.
Actually, I want my "betters" to make decisions for the other guys. After all, I'm not going to do anything particularly wrong, unlike lots of people out there. I'm perfectly willing to live with laws designed go make society function even when they cause problems for me, because I'm better off that way.
I also have the right to vote for people to make those decisions, and send them mail and email.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
It's just a petition to get a parliamentary committee to discuss it. That's all. The petition system is not meant to achieve anything tangible.
Internet has been UNITING the world;
It's prudent to DIVIDE nations into smaller countries to PROTECT the interests of common man;
A country is NOT made of land; a country is made of its people.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik...
Casteism
I know for certain that this is the view of at least one person. An old acquaintance of mine plans to vote for Trump now that Sanders is essentially out of the race, precisely to spit in the eye of the establishment. He even thinks it's a positive thing if Trump completely burns down the country, that we'll somehow rebuild from the ashes.
I can get behind "fuck the establishment", but I'm not going to make a deal with the devil to do so.
So maybe it depends on if you are a country with few local jobs so you can ship the excess labor to some other country. the country that ships the people suddenly has a much higher employment index and the place where they go to has a lower one. basically it levels the score so that the more advanced nations suffer and the least advanced nations will prosper.
Linkedin http://in.linkedin.com/in/robinsaikatchatterjee