Microsoft To Make Saying No To Windows 10 Update Easier (zdnet.com)

Less than a week after a California-based woman won $10,000 lawsuit against Microsoft over Windows 10 upgrades, the Redmond-based company has announced it will make it easier for users to say no to Windows 10 updates. The company plans to change the Windows 10 update prompt to make it clearer and easier for Windows 7 and Windows 8.x users to schedule or reject upgrading to Windows 10. ZDNet reports:Microsoft officials said late on June 27 that the new update experience -- with clearer "upgrade now, schedule a time, or decline the free offer" -- will start rolling out this week. Microsoft also will revert to making clicking on the Red X at the corner of the Windows 10 update box dismiss the update, rather than initiate it, as it has done for the past several weeks. Microsoft officials said they are making the change "in response to customer feedback."

Comments

Handy tool

[Anonymous Coward]

...Windows 10 install manager, now only available in Windows 10.

Re:Handy tool

[turbidostato]

"...Windows 10 install manager, now only available in Windows 10."

Well, you are not to far away: "Windows 10 install manager, now only available in Windows".

So far, it's been quite easy for me to avoid it.

Too little too late

[LichtSpektren]

I have no doubt that this was all planned by Microsoft. Perhaps they didn't anticipate the backlash, but making it easier to deny the update without manually removing KB3035583 or installing a third-party program (GWX Control Panel, Never10, etc.) in the eleventh hour is too little, too late. There's only another month of the "free" "upgrade", so who's left to take it? The people who intentionally waited for the last possible moment in order to get the most stable upgrade, but they've already decided to go to Windows 10 anyway.

In other words, the damage is already done. Now's the time to cry for your government to begin imposing criminal penalties to Microsoft and cancel their contracts with them, or MSFT will get away with it.

Re:Too little too late

[Anonymous Coward]

Get away with it? FFS, cry some more. Better yet, do it in your own country about your own idiot politicians and your own stupid policies.

Re:Too little too late

[fustakrakich]

Now's the time to cry for your government to begin imposing criminal penalties to Microsoft...

Unless they can revoke their corporate charter there are no penalties that can harm Microsoft. And canceling the contracts and switching systems will be very expensive, but they should not be included in any future contracts.

Re:Too little too late

[Anonymous Coward]

Now's the time to cry for your government to begin imposing criminal penalties to Microsoft and cancel their contracts with them, or MSFT will get away with it.

As a government IT worker I couldn't agree more.

Anyone have any advice on the best way to rollout OS X to 1,500 Dell OptiPlex computers?

Re:Too little too late

[Yvan256]

macOS? The Hackintosh route, and you better hope those Dell OptiPlex computers have supported hardware.

Re:Too little too late

[LichtSpektren]

Now's the time to cry for your government to begin imposing criminal penalties to Microsoft...

Unless they can revoke their corporate charter there are no penalties that can harm Microsoft. And canceling the contracts and switching systems will be very expensive, but they should not be included in any future contracts.

I disagree. Treat all those computers that were auto-"upgraded" to Windows 10 as if they were hit with ransomware or otherwise intentionally broken by Microsoft.

Re:Too little too late

[spire3661]

The government didnt punish them after they were CONVICTED of being an abusive monopolist, what do you think they are going to do to a non-monopoly MS?

Re:Too little too late

[Anonymous Coward]

An individual can just do that. A government bureaucracy cannot.

 

Re:Too little too late

[Joe_Dragon]

To late??

So what happens if the update auto runs after the free time is over so your new windows 10 will not pass activation but you don't get any info about that till after 30 when it is too late for you to roll back what will happen then?

Re:Too little too late

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, if MS started using their in-depth spyware to expose criminal activity on the part of politicians, the government would conduct armed raids of the offices and homes of non-monopoly MS' officers.

So long as the spying is only used to increase the wealth and power of the aristocracy, the government won't do anything.

Re:Too little too late

[fustakrakich]

Okay, and then what?

Re:Too little too late

[LichtSpektren]

Treat all those computers that were auto-"upgraded" to Windows 10 as if they were hit with ransomware or otherwise intentionally broken by Microsoft.

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean that your made-up analogies would ever have any legal bearing.

Treat all those drivers who speed as if it were attempted vehicular homicide. Treat all those Linux distributions as if they stole code from UNIX.

Forcefully altering somebody's OS in order to integrate spyware is illegal. For the people that paid for Windows 7 and 8 and had their computers broken during the forced upgrade, Microsoft actually did break their computers. It's not as far off as your two analogies.

Re:Too little too late

[LichtSpektren]

Okay, and then what?

Then reimburse all of those people of the cost to reinstall Windows 7 or 8.1, or the whole cost of the computer itself.

Re:Too little too late

[Z00L00K]

The trust is already broken, and I have disabled Windows Updates now.

Re:Too little too late

[Tough Love]

Perhaps they didn't anticipate the backlash...

Right now a Dota 2 tournament is on hold because a Windows 10 update started in the middle of it.

Re:Too little too late

[macs4all]

Anyone have any advice on the best way to rollout OS X to 1,500 Dell OptiPlex computers?

Quite simple, actually.

1. Fill out Purchase Requisition for 1,500 Mac mini computers. You should be able to use the bottom of the line version, but I would suggest the BTO RAM upgrade option to 8 GB, just because. Other than that, if these are being used for typical front-office applications, you should be absolutely fine. Contact Apple for a Governmental and Large-Purchase Discount.

2. Fill out Purchase Requisition for a volume license for Microsoft Office for Mac. Again, Microsoft is likely to give you a large-purchase Discount. And you will likely be able to install Office from a single Server-based copy.

3. When the hardware and software comes in, take the Dell computers' Hard Drives out and recycle the now-useless carcasses of the Optiplex computers. But don't forget to retain the Monitors, Mice (ewww! Dell mice!) and Keyboards (ewww! Dell keyboards!) for use with the newly-purchased Mac Minis.

4. Unbox and setup the Mac minis, using the existing Monitors, mice and keyboards; setup to join your Domain, then install MS Office. ProTip: If your setups are similar, you can even set your Macs up to NetBoot from a single image. But most non-educational users find that approach a little too restrictive for individual users.

With 1500 machines, I would DEFINITELY put in a Requisition for a copy of the most-excellent Apple Remote Desktop's Admin Console (the "server" side is built into OS X/macOS). It is QUITE nice for managing a googolplex of Macs (and it reportedly can do limited Windows and Linux admin. tasks, too).

5. You're done.

Re: Too little too late

[bondsbw]

Words are important when talking about legal action.

What you just said is different, that they broke stuff. I'm not debating that, negligence doesn't get them off the hook. But you originally said "ransomware" (which is not at all related to the issue) and "intentionally broken" (which is specifically different from just "broken") and thus you were very much mischaracterizing the situation.

So no, they shouldn't just act like those are the same, because they are very different.

Re:Too little too late

[rtconner]

Yep. I'm a life long Windows user. But I'm in the process to transitioning to a mix of Mac and Ubuntu as my OS's. I can't trust Windows anymore, so I guess I won't use it.

Re:Too little too late

[thegarbz]

There's only another month of the "free" "upgrade", so who's left to take it?

I'll bet you a marsbar that the free offer extends beyond the coming month.

Re:Too little too late

[Nethead]

Submit a ticket to Dell to have that added to KACE.

Re:Too little too late

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is this informative? It straight up doesn't answer the question since it doesn't roll out OS X to ANY Dell OptiPlex computers. Or am I missing a joke? It's really hard to tell unbridled fanboy idiocy from sarcasm nowadays.

Re:Too little too late

[macs4all]

Why is this informative? It straight up doesn't answer the question since it doesn't roll out OS X to ANY Dell OptiPlex computers. Or am I missing a joke? It's really hard to tell unbridled fanboy idiocy from sarcasm nowadays.

It IS informative and is NOT a joke; because it adroitly sidesteps the weak sarcasm in the original "request" by actually outlining the top-level steps necessary to switch from being a Windows-based office to a Mac-based one.

Re:Too little too late

[dbreeze]

There's an answer right here... http://www.movetoamend.org/
Take away their grossly overdone influence on legislation/politics and they may decide to play nice with consumers again. As is, they could give a flip about our problems, there is no down-side to abusing their $ enabled power.

Re: Too little too late

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm curious. Do you believe that Microsoft expected 100% of the Windows 10 installs to be smooth sailing? If not, then they expected some percentage of the installs to be problematic/broken, as asserted by the original AC?

Re:Too little too late

[PsychoSlashDot]

It IS informative and is NOT a joke; because it adroitly sidesteps the weak sarcasm in the original "request" by actually outlining the top-level steps necessary to switch from being a Windows-based office to a Mac-based one.

Come on. If it was informative, it wouldn't be missing:

2.5 Read your your e-mails wherein your Purchase Requisitions were denied.

2.6 Goto 5.

Re:Too little too late

[Anonymous Coward]

I think this is the sentiment of several tens of millions of people. I never trusted Windows Update in the first place; third-party security software always did a better job anyway.

Re:Too little too late

[Darinbob]

It's all pointless. Who at this moment has not yet heard of the Windows 10 update availability? Are they concerned that someone somewhere hasn't heard about this and so they're intent on pissing everyone off just to reach this one person? Everyone has already either upgraded, ignored the upgrades, or taken active steps block the updates that trick you into upgrading. Why the hell are they still at this? The answer is NO, they gotta LET IT GO!

Re:Too little too late

[Darinbob]

Microsoft loves screwing up the OSX versions of Office. If you think Office sucks on Windows then you don't want to see how bad it is on Mac. Seriously get OpenOffice, LibreOffice, or anything else.

Re:Too little too late

[Darinbob]

Probably true. I suspect you're not able to get the free offer now but use it later. You can get the ISOs for it for archiving (I have them), but once you install it's going to ask for your authorization code. You can't even get that auth code until after you install it. So if you want to take advantage of the free offer today but then install it next year when it's not so hectic then you're out of luck. This is not like the old Windows where you get a DVD and a printed auth code.

I tried it out in a VM, but without the authorization code it's stuck in a "trial" mode where I can't change the UI and other personalization. So it's stuck with the uglified new start menu (ads and all). But I don't want to waste my one-time-only upgrade from "Pro" edition. Applying for the authorization code is done from within Windows and I assume it would be applied to the VM image only and so if I upgrade again on my real computer it would likely complain that I already used up my upgrade. So doing a "test drive" here is difficult, unless you upgrade your computer and later rollback, but that's not completely safe and is very time consuming if it screws up.

Re: Too little too late

[thundercattt]

Completely agree. I tried the upgrade for kicks on my Windows partition. It failed, no way back. I had to dig out my Win 7 disc and do a fresh install. After all their advertising how great it was, left me without a working PC. Had I not been a computer guy, it would cost $ to reinstall the os by a professional. Then reinstall all my games. Windows is only used for gaming , other 95% of the time Debian.

Re:Too little too late

[Anonymous Coward]

Unless they can revoke their corporate charter there are no penalties that can harm Microsoft.

Usually punishments involve losing rights.

Fines: Losing the right to keep your money - i.e. property rights.
Prison: Losing the right to move freely around.

There is one right that Microsoft would worry about losing: Their copyright.

Re: Too little too late

[LichtSpektren]

I appreciate your point, but my comments on this article are not a legal filing. I was merely saying in what fashion the government could strike back at Microsoft; approach the matter as if Microsoft had attacked those computers with ransomware. Because it's not that far off from the truth.

Re:Too little too late

[Anonymous Coward]

They will probably just upgrade users to Windows 10 and in order to get your system back you will have to give them your credit card number and will have to call M$ within a week in order to avoid being charged for the upgrade and to downgrade to your previous version. During this call, M$ will use all kinds of marketing ploys to try and get you to change your mind about Windows 10.

Re:Too little too late

[beastofburdon]

I would not bet against that.
Also it already is extended with a loophole.

Re: Too little too late

[bondsbw]

Any such action by government would be subject to court, where a legal case must be presented. Your argument is legally flawed, therefore fundamentally invalid as government action.

Re:Too little too late

[eric_harris_76]

Never10 seems to be working fine for me.

Info about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Decline

[sinij]

>>>"upgrade now, schedule a time, or decline the free offer"

Based on past performance, clicking decline the free offer would lead to Win10 update and the bill in the mail.

Only LUDDITES refuse Appdows 10!

[Anonymous Coward]

Modern app appers know that ONLY apps can app apps, and Appdows 10 is the appiest apperating app available! Only LUDDITES would refuse to app Appdows 10!

Apps!

Re: Only LUDDITES refuse Appdows 10!

[Anonymous Coward]

Finally, the app guy starts making some sense.

Re: Only LUDDITES refuse Appdows 10!

[Darinbob]

It's like that scene in Mars Attacks. "App app app, we are your friends, app app app."

Microsoft has no choice now

[sshir]

Basically, everybody and their dog, who heard about that woman's court case, will rush to enable recommended updates in order to screw up their system and go claim their $10000.

Re:Microsoft has no choice now

[Anonymous Coward]

You have to demonstrate $10,000 in losses. "everybody and their dog" does not run a business on a Win7 machine that got auto-upgraded, and then broke.

Re:Microsoft has no choice now

[thegarbz]

Why was this modded insightful? The woman didn't get a windfall. She didn't get massive punitive damages. She got covered for actual damages and had to take her case through the courts and even into an appeal.

Anyone stupid enough to think this is a financially sound deal and voluntarily entering into it (which would make them pretty much instantly lose their case) won't be laughing to the bank but rather crying into their lawyer's invoice.

Re:Microsoft has no choice now

[Anonymous Coward]

now there is a precedent so next person wouldn't need to go though and the class action lawsuit can go ahead.
fuck MS

Re:Microsoft has no choice now

[david_thornley]

There's a non-binding precedent that Microsoft is liable for harm caused by such OS changes. There's no precedent whatsoever that says that it causes harm in all cases.

Re:Microsoft has no choice now

[Anonymous Coward]

Bring the support bill for "reinstalling the system, complete with software and tweaks made over the years".

When I was using a Windows that required reinstalling every 6 months (W2k) reinstalling was around one work day. That's on a work computer with everything important on the network drive and volume licenses. I wouldn't even want to try that on a personal computer with no backups and finding a lost license key can easily take so many hours that it would be cheaper to buy the software again.

Re:Microsoft has no choice now

[Anonymous Coward]

If you can successfully prove that you suffered business losses due to your computer being unavailable due to the forced upgrade. This woman was a travel agent and had to shut down her business while she was trying to fix her current laptop or buy a new one.

risk assessment

[Lead Butthead]

I am sure legal risk assessment was done before their sordid attempts to force themsel... win10 on all existing windows installations, and it was deem to be acceptable by the management of highest level.

Re: risk assessment

[thundercattt]

I was thinking the same thing. Most Yank corporations seem to force things until they lose in court. Then they follow the rules. If it only costs them 10k (assuming nobody follows suit), that's a good gamble on their part.

Re:risk assessment

[Anonymous Coward]

Not so clear to me. I think that it is more likely that they have lost all adult supervision, and this is all the result of lower-echelon employees (perhaps even internms) running amok.

Re:risk assessment

[Hognoxious]

I am sure legal risk assessment was done before their sordid attempts to force themsel... win10 on all existing windows installations

If an assessment was done, they ignored it.

Re:risk assessment

[TangoMargarine]

Or they accurately concluded this was exactly as much as they could get away with. $10k to Microsoft is barely worth noting.

Re:risk assessment

[dbIII]

See Volkswagen (and GM before them) for another example of taking a gamble that the gains would be greater than possible punishment.

Re: risk assessment

[Darinbob]

CEO: So what's the worst thing that can happen with this plan?
Marketing: The entire world will hate us.
CEO: But the entire world already hates us.
Marketing: That's the beauty of it, there's nothing left to lose.
CEO: Ok, let's pass it by legal.
Legal: We're lawyers, the entire world hates us too. I say screw em!

Re:risk assessment

[Anonymous Coward]

It's about precedent more than anything. If someone has the same circumstances as this woman, they can sue under the same laws and the case would be over in a flash. It also means that companies that do this in the future open themselves up to lawsuits.

Yes, $10k is a drop in the bucket. 10k + Lawyer fees + travel expenses + misc expenses * the number of people who sue them = A not-so-significant chunk. If they were sued by a ton of people all at the same time, it might end up being cheaper for them to just pony up the cash rather than send their lawyers all over the country.

Re:risk assessment

[TangoMargarine]

People keep saying that the precedent is non-binding so they haven't really opened themselves up to lawsuits yet.

Argh, FU MS

[Moof123]

Windows 7 is still no panacea either. I've kept 10 off my home box, but a simple LAN card swap (to play nice with a hackintosh install) triggered the whole authentication process with piracy accusations, and that is not resolving through the automated process. I'm using my home PC so little that I am getting close to just shelving it and being done with Windows at home entirely. I swear that I spend almost as much time waiting for updates to install as I do using it anyway.

Grumble...

Re:Argh, FU MS

[fahrbot-bot]

but a simple LAN card swap (to play nice with a hackintosh install) triggered the whole authentication process with piracy accusations

Assuming you had a free slot, you could have simply added the new LAN card and not used (and/or disabled) the old one. I have a system with a 10Mbit NIC on the motherboard and added a 1Gbit card w/o any authentication issues. I have still used the original NIC to configure my WiFi AP as it came with a default IP on a different subnet.

Re:Argh, FU MS

[Anonymous Coward]

The call in process is completely automated and takes less then 5 minutes.

Re:Argh, FU MS

[macs4all]

Windows 7 is still no panacea either. I've kept 10 off my home box, but a simple LAN card swap (to play nice with a hackintosh install) triggered the whole authentication process with piracy accusations, and that is not resolving through the automated process. I'm using my home PC so little that I am getting close to just shelving it and being done with Windows at home entirely. I swear that I spend almost as much time waiting for updates to install as I do using it anyway.

Grumble...

If you have a Hackintosh working, you already have the permanent solution in hand. Just get rid of that nasty Bootcamp Partition and be gloriously Microsoft-Free!

Re:Argh, FU MS

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure. And to keep from paying alimony you can just stay married and keep them in the attic instead of divorcing...

Re:Argh, FU MS

[mschwanke97402]

Various commentards on other sites have suggested to me that I should suck it up and just update to Windows 10 already because everyone is going to have to sooner or later...

Meanwhile I have moved to a Mac at home. At work I'm transitioning to a FreeNAS based file server and will be dumping my Windows server in the near future. The minute I can find a suitable (read as cheap), simple Point-Of-Sale / Jobs Manager for my small computer repair business I will be moving to Mac or Linux on my shop PCs.

Pardon the language but F**K Microsoft and their brazen, heavy-handed tactics. They've finally proved to me they're just not to be trusted or relied upon.

Re:Argh, FU MS

[Anonymous Coward]

...F**K Microsoft and their brazen, heavy-handed tactics. They've finally proved to me they're just not to be trusted or relied upon.

"Finally"? Really? You must not have been in this business for very long...

Re:Argh, FU MS

[flyingfsck]

Well, here you go: http://blog.capterra.com/the-t...

Re:Argh, FU MS

[Anonymous Coward]

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter...

Re:Argh, FU MS

[Anonymous Coward]

And Apple is better? Don't you know that they have an entire department whose sole purpose is to tell customers to fuck themselves for wanting to do anything that Holy Steve didn't decide he would want to do?

Re:Argh, FU MS

[macs4all]

At work I'm transitioning to a FreeNAS based file server

Genuinely curious. How does FreeNAS work with OS X? Have you tried it yet?

Re:Argh, FU MS

[dbreeze]

Burn yourself a variety of Linux liveCD's to try out and see which one works best with your hardware, and you. You'll really be kicking yerself in the butt for not ditching Microsoft earlier...

Re:Argh, FU MS

[Duckman5]

Genuinely curious. How does FreeNAS work with OS X? Have you tried it yet?

Amazingly well. FreeNAS supports CIFS/SMB and AFP among others so you can share files with pretty much any platform you can imagine.

Also, when you're setting up an AFP share, there's a check box that just says "Time Machine." If you check the box, when you can use OSX's built in Time Machine backup service to back up to that share. You don't have to dedicate an entire drive as I'm told you have to do with the official Apple hardware and you can even set up quotas for the dataset that the backup is on so that Time Machine will autoprune it and it won't get out of control.

I used Windows Home Server for a few years, then tried Amahi, then rolled my own server, but I'll never go back to any of them since I started using FreeNAS. I don't think I've run into a single sane thing I've wanted to do that I haven't be able to do yet. Be warned, though, that ZFS is one heck of a memory hog. That being said, I'm running my system with 6.5 TB of storage on only 4 GB but I wouldn't recommend it. I'm going to upgrade the system as soon as I have the free cash.

Re:Argh, FU MS

[Darinbob]

That's never going to work, that's where I put the mother in law.

Re:Argh, FU MS

[Darinbob]

Greatest feel good marketing slogan of all time: "You have to upgrade sooner or later so may as well do it now and get it over with."

Timing

[dan_waggoner]

They could have done this months ago and not taken a single bit of negative PR.

Re:Timing

[zlives]

all publicity is good marketing... said some marketing guy

Why only windows 10

[Anonymous Coward]

what about the telemetry you sneek in? I've had win 7 update disabled for a very long time now.

i don't trust your updates, and I don't have time to research and ponder each and every single update.

Re:Why only windows 10

[istartedi]

This. They're killing the "Windows is easier than *NIX" argument. You can trust any free *NIX package manager to only update the packages you need. If you can't, it dies fast and you install one of the many others available.

The trouble is, since these other "vendors" don't sell software you're subject to the whims of their various other funding sources. It used to be we could bypass all that drama simply by ponying up $$$ for Windows, and now we can't because MS is emulating the worst aspects of those other ecosystems.

Re:Why only windows 10

[Tough Love]

They're killing the "Windows is easier than *NIX" argument.

It has always been just an argument, never the truth. What's dieing is the spin.

Re:Why only windows 10

[david_thornley]

Technically, it's always been harder to install Linux than it has been to just use the version of Windows the computer came with. I've had slightly less trouble installing Linux than Windows, when I did the installation.

Re:Why only windows 10

[Anonymous Coward]

"dieing"? Really?

Re:Why only windows 10

[istartedi]

No. It was the truth, at least it was in the late 90s. All the Linux guys were like, "woohoo, I got it to install". One time I asked them "what's the equivalent of find all files and folders containing X?", and I got 3 different line-noise answers that sort of made sense to me but would have befuddled most regular people. Also, installing was considered an "accomplishment" and as recently as 2007 our solution to "Red Hat doesn't install on that machine" was "Install Ubuntu".

Face it. Although Linux has closed most of the gap, it took its own sweet time.

How to fix for good:

[DogDude]

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\Gwx] "DisableGwx"=dword:00000001

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate] "DisableOSUpgrade"=dword:00000001

Although granted, one shouldn't have to do this...

Re:How to fix for good:

[bill_mcgonigle]

I find it faster to google for Never10 and run it than to launch Regedit and find the keys. (Both do the same thing.)

Re:How to fix for good:

[DogDude]

Sure, you can just put this into a .REG file:


Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\Gwx] "DisableGwx"=dword:00000001

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate] "DisableOSUpgrade"=dword:00000001

Re:How to fix for good:

[Anonymous Coward]

Well fixed to MS flips the flag, like they have done in the past. You want to fix it for good, go linux.

Re:How to fix for good:

[Anonymous Coward]

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\Gwx]
"DisableGwx"=dword:00000001

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate]
"DisableOSUpgrade"=dword:00000001

Although granted, one shouldn't have to do this...

This method doesn't prevent the installation of telemetry, does it?

Re:How to fix for good:

[DerpQuake]

Yes, I've done the same on every system I touch. Too bad it took a lawsuit to get them to understand common sense. I will be so pleased to "decline the free offer". Someday perhaps they will realize that gaining market share for a new product isn't worthwhile if it means alienating your customer base. Windows 10 could have been a reasonable option and worth considering, instead it became something we all had to protect ourselves and our families from being forced into without informed consent. It was a bad call and it set a bad precedent for how MS will treat it's customer's digital sovereignty over their own computers and purchased software.

Re:How to fix for good:

[cfalcon]

Yea, you should obviously have to say the magic dword if you want your OS to not be completely replaced while you sleep.

Linux now, man. It's time.

Re:How to fix for good:

[cfalcon]

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmas...

No, you need to remove kbs and services.

Re:How to fix for good:

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep, if downloading executable files from the Internet and running them is your idea of better practice than taking three minutes to do it yourself, knock yourself out.

Re:How to fix for good:

[Chromium_One]

How about when Windows Update helpfully reverted this change for you?

http://www.infoworld.com/artic...

How about when Windows Update helpfully started the upgrade process on domain-joined systems, despite MS claiming it wouldn't?

(take your pick on links) https://duckduckgo.com/?q=wind...

MS keeps demonstrating that they can't be trusted, and I for one am tired of having an adversarial relationship with them.

I'm done, they can go fuck themselves.

"Customer feedback"?

[grasshoppa]

Does anyone really feel like they need "Customer Feedback" to understand that deceptive practices are something customers don't want?

Re:"Customer feedback"?

[sconeu]

Does anyone really feel like they need "Customer Feedback" to understand that deceptive practices are something customers don't want?

Yes. Marketroids.

Re:"Customer feedback"?

[freeze128]

"We are making the change in response to customer feedback, not in response to common sense or the past 25 years of Microsoft UI design."

DUH!

Re:"Customer feedback"?

[plover]

"We are making the change in response to customer feedback"

s/customer/litigious bastards/

Funny how there's only one kind of feedback that they actually respond to.

Re:"Customer feedback"?

[Livius]

To be fair, Microsoft has very little insight into what customers want.

Re:"Customer feedback"?

[nukenerd]

FTFA :-

Microsoft officials said they are making the change "in response to customer feedback.

New keyboard when I read that part. Microsoft's term for being sued is "Customer feedback"

Timing!

[thevirtualcat]

I'm sure their management will deny up and down that this had anything to do with the case they just lost and that the timing is "purely coincidental."

But I suspect that their legal department emailed someone in management an Excel spreadsheet detailing the costs of losing that case and how much it would cost to defend similar cases now that there is precedent. The manager probably multiplied that number by some number that may or may not reflect the actual number of users with similar claims and said "Shit, that's actually a lot of money. Maybe we should stop."

Still doesn't change the fact that they spent the last 11 months gleefully burning the modicum of trust in Windows Update they had had managed to build up over the last few years.

surprise buttseks!

[Anonymous Coward]

MS- bend down now, bend down in a few seconds, or decline to receive anally this free cock
U- GO AWAY (click X)
MS- excellent choice! forceful insertion of cock now in progress

Re:surprise buttseks!

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows 10 does come with a 3D printer app, so the customer can indeed print his or her favourite cock or butt plug models. This way at least some of the customers end up happy and don't vote for #win10exit.

Simple fix. No 3rd party required.

[jdagius]

There are two Boolean flag vars in the Registry which turn off the automatic update and free-offer notifications. Using the builtin registry editor ("regedit") drill down to [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows] and look for key entries 'WindowsUpdate' and 'GWX'. If they're not present then use the editor to create new key names WindowsUpdate and GWX in the Windows key list.

Then to disable auto-update add a dword named DisableOSUpgrade under WindowsUpdate and set it to 1 (true)
"DisableOSUpgrade"=dword:00000001

To disable the freeWin10 upgrade offer notification add a dword named DisableGWX under GWX and set it to 1 (true)
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\GWX]
"DisableGWX"=dword:00000001

That's it. Now you can turn the automatic Windows-update back and not worry about Win10 being installed. Also you won't be nagged about the free Win10 offer.

Re:Simple fix. No 3rd party required.

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft has historically been seen clearing flags or changing the flag that the program reads, which is why GWX Control Panel has a task that runs every once in a while that re-checks. It doesn't mean they'll ever do it again, but it also doesn't mean they won't.

And you still end up with the expanded telemetry that they've pushed out to 7 and 8.

Depending on what things you do or don't care about, those flags may or may not be useful.

Re:Simple fix. No 3rd party required.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll be sure to tell my mother-in-law about this "simple fix." What's your phone number, so she can call you with questions?

Re:Simple fix. No 3rd party required.

[Anonymous Coward]

There are two Boolean flag vars in the Registry which turn off the automatic update and free-offer notifications. Using the builtin registry editor ("regedit") drill down to [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows] and look for key entries 'WindowsUpdate' and 'GWX'. If they're not present then use the editor to create new key names WindowsUpdate and GWX in the Windows key list.

Then to disable auto-update add a dword named DisableOSUpgrade under WindowsUpdate and set it to 1 (true)
"DisableOSUpgrade"=dword:00000001

To disable the freeWin10 upgrade offer notification add a dword named DisableGWX under GWX and set it to 1 (true)
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\GWX]
"DisableGWX"=dword:00000001

That's it. Now you can turn the automatic Windows-update back and not worry about Win10 being installed. Also you won't be nagged about the free Win10 offer.

Tell you what. Talk a your average user through that process, including the editing, without doing it remotely for them and then we'll talk.
By the way, the average user I'm talking about is the same one that's claimed to not be able to use Linux on a daily basis, who has trouble knowing what a browser is and when asked to click on "my computer" thinks you mean your actual computer.

Re:Simple fix. No 3rd party required.

[richy freeway]

I've had multiple machines with those registry keys set for at least 6 months, none of them have shown any sign of a Windows 10 upgrade since.

It's tried, it's tested, it's permanent.

Re:Simple fix. No 3rd party required.

[Anonymous Coward]

What about the expanded telemetry, though?

Re:Simple fix. No 3rd party required.

[Anonymous Coward]

But what about the telemetry updates which we also do not want? Any registry keys for telling MS to keep their big nose out of our program execution/browsing history?

I suspect the answer is "no" but hey it's worth keeping the heat on them for those telemetry backports too. I will still never trust Windows Update again.

Re:Simple fix. No 3rd party required.

[richy freeway]

It does nothing about that. No one ever claimed it did.

Re:Simple fix. No 3rd party required.

[Anonymous Coward]

mebbe if your mother-in-law isn't savvy enough to HACK THE GIBSON and build her own lightsaber she would be better off APPING APPS on an APPPAD.
This also solves the problem of finding a birthday present one year out of three.

Re:Simple fix. No 3rd party required.

[Anonymous Coward]

I sure hope you do not do QA for any company, and if you are a programmer this speaks volumes about your inability to understand bounds checking. It implies an inability to perform root cause analysis and utter failure at applying the scientific method. Determining that six months on "multiple machines" without change is "permanent" because you've "tested" it. Wow. Just wow.

I hate to post this anonymously but I'd rather not undo moderation. Oh well.

Re:Simple fix. No 3rd party required.

[cfalcon]

> two Boolean flag vars in the Registry
> drill down to [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows]
> not present then use the editor to create new key names
> add a dword named DisableGWX under GWX and set it to 1 (true)
> That's it.

Oh, that's it? Well, I see why people use windows. You only have to use a proprietary binary editing tool, move to an address with a hugely named space, instantiate and name correctly a 32 bit binary number, set it to the correct value, and do it all again.

Super easy! I mean, in Linux, you sometimes have to type a thing on a command line. Whoa, nerdy-mcnerd face! I'm much more comfortable with fucking Gate's dword editor.

Re:Simple fix. No 3rd party required.

[cfalcon]

Be sure to specify her number as a signed DWORD value on architecture with two byte words, or OP might get confused.

Re:Simple fix. No 3rd party required.

[Tharkkun]

I sure hope you do not do QA for any company, and if you are a programmer this speaks volumes about your inability to understand bounds checking. It implies an inability to perform root cause analysis and utter failure at applying the scientific method. Determining that six months on "multiple machines" without change is "permanent" because you've "tested" it. Wow. Just wow.

I hate to post this anonymously but I'd rather not undo moderation. Oh well.

I work for a major software company and can back him up. We have 110k Windows 7 machines and a few hundred Windows 8 installs. We pushed the GWX change to every single workstation within a week of the "Upgrade button" showing up back in July. It hasn't come back yet. So the people who this is happening to either did it incorrectly or performed a Windows update and installed recommended updates (not critical) without reading what they were doing.

Re:Simple fix. No 3rd party required.

[Tharkkun]

There are two Boolean flag vars in the Registry which turn off the automatic update and free-offer notifications. Using the builtin registry editor ("regedit") drill down to [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows] and look for key entries 'WindowsUpdate' and 'GWX'. If they're not present then use the editor to create new key names WindowsUpdate and GWX in the Windows key list.

Then to disable auto-update add a dword named DisableOSUpgrade under WindowsUpdate and set it to 1 (true) "DisableOSUpgrade"=dword:00000001

To disable the freeWin10 upgrade offer notification add a dword named DisableGWX under GWX and set it to 1 (true) [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\GWX] "DisableGWX"=dword:00000001

That's it. Now you can turn the automatic Windows-update back and not worry about Win10 being installed. Also you won't be nagged about the free Win10 offer.

Tell you what. Talk a your average user through that process, including the editing, without doing it remotely for them and then we'll talk. By the way, the average user I'm talking about is the same one that's claimed to not be able to use Linux on a daily basis, who has trouble knowing what a browser is and when asked to click on "my computer" thinks you mean your actual computer.

It's really tough. You can download the change in a single file that imports the registry change. Double click, click yes and reboot.

Re:Simple fix. No 3rd party required.

[richy freeway]

No I don't and no I'm not, but what's that got to do with anything?

The only method I've applied is setting those keys on any machine a customer doesn't want the Windows 10 upgrade happening on.

I couldn't tell you if it's 100 machines or 1000 machines, all I know is no one has ever come back and complained it didn't work.

Apologies if that's not scientific enough for you, I'll try not to bring anything anecdotal to the discussion ever again.

Re:Simple fix. No 3rd party required.

[bondsbw]

The majority of "average users" won't care, and frankly they're going to be better served by being on the latest OS with security updates and support for many more years. Getting the masses upgraded is a huge positive and will actually save people money by helping older hardware continue to be useful for a longer time.

If options are buried in the registry, so be it. I totally agree with the philosophy of making dangerous options difficult to change.

However, I still do not agree with any tactics that are intended to confuse the user or override choices that the user explicitly made. I know what I'm doing, damn it; let me do with my device as I wish.

Re:Simple fix. No 3rd party required.

[Anonymous Coward]

As noted in another thread about this a while back: the geeks never had a problem because they fixed it as soon as a fix was known; it's only the Muggles that got hosed.

None of the computer in my house got Win10 unless it was intended; it was blocked way back at the beginning.

Re:Simple fix. No 3rd party required.

[Darinbob]

You'll still get the spyware though. Automatic windows update is always a bad idea. Inspect each one before manually applying.

Re:Simple fix. No 3rd party required.

[houghi]

Can I give you the number of my grandmother and her friends and could you explain it to them?

Yesterday they knew almost how to not go via Google to go to a website. Only took me 40 minutes to explain where to type the address.
Why almost? She was tired and it was tea time in the home she is and if you is not in time, that bitch from next door will take the nice cookies.

If you didn't know about Microsoft a long time ago

[Anonymous Coward]

You are probably already hosed.

This site had the old school way to block it all if you did the other manual steps using the hosts file.
https://github.com/WindowsLies/BlockWindows/

A slashdot commenter had made a video of "wiresharking" his Windows 10 and posted it on YouTube. For those unfamiliar it is a packet sniffer and detects and displays the nature of each incoming and outgoing network packet. By nature I mean IP address, protocol as in TCP, UDP, RDP, etc name it.

That video was pulled from YouTube nearly immediately, and obviously there was no moral reason to pull a video showing how your OS connects to Microsoft and Markmonitor servers. (among other tracking hosts)

Then there were many articles and they are still around about how to do it manually, and even grc.com has a small portable app called Never10 that is reckoned to block installing Windows 10 over 7/8/8.1 etc.

The problem and pertinent factors are thus. They snuck new server lists in other "security updates" and never disclosed the change. I haven't checked recently but there was a period (maybe still is) that Microsoft decided to not disclose what is actually in their so-called security updates.

What I mean by problem AND pertinent factor is why they even force spyware on you at all. Bill doesn't need the money and it is not for anybody's protection that they track everything you do on your PC. The lies are asinine. The deceit shameful. The employees and Bill himself are forced by the US spy agencies to incorporate every possible tracking you can imagine. This is the same with Google and Facebook and others. The higher the traffic, the higher the priority to force tracking on you. Slashdot connects to myriad CA Cert servers that change on a daily basis it seems. Sometimes more than once a day.

You should use NoScript (and remove the XSS default-to-allow permissions under advanced, and uncheck all boxes on the ABE tab). You should also use Adblock Plus or similar. Ghostery is no good any more because it's settings rely on remote server to change and it chats with it. BetterPrivacy for flash cookies is the 4th I would recommend to run on Firefox.

Now this is important. Spy agencies and Google (gstatic, google-analytics, etc) track you all over the Internet and yes it is cross-reference-able. From your porn likes to your Facebook profile to your bank account to your SMS log on your cell phone to your shopping history at Walmart if you use a card. By face recognition too if you already have their special attention. It is accessible by any US government spy agency at will in the name of "security" but like Microsoft, it is the same lie.

They know all about browser parameters and whatnot but blocking works. THIS IS THE BIG TIP OF THE DAY.

Ready? Set your PC time to an inaccurate time. Change time zones. Make it as screwy as possible unless you need to sync implicitly for something. They rely on time logging and IP addresses as a failsafe tracking mechanism. This totally messes up their monitoring ability. Better than that is to use Tor, but you will notice you bump into Google captcha after Google captcha. I don't intend this to be a long tutorial but just set a wrist watch or your phone next to your monitor and keep your clock on your laptop/desktop coming from Liberia or whatever. That little clock is a itsy bitsy little teeny weeny convenience for you.. and night/day for the monitoring ability of US spy agencies.

Also, your data is shared internationally especially Facebook profiling because the FBI has an unconscionable amount of moles.

Pure Malware

[Sir_Eptishous]

Microsoft also will revert to making clicking on the Red X at the corner of the Windows 10 update box dismiss the update, rather than initiate it, as it has done for the past several weeks.

Nothing more, nothing less...

Translation:

[kheldan]

Microsoft Gives End-Users A Real Way Out Of Windows 10 Upgrade Because They Don't Want To Get Sued More

Now that there's legal precedent, the floodgates of legal action against Microsoft can now open, and they damned well know it.

Re:Translation:

[thegarbz]

What flood gates? The actual number of users who would be able to show in a court of law actual damages sustained as a result of a windows update completely borking a computer would be puny. There wasn't any massive legal windfall here, no major awards of punitive damages. Anyone thinking this makes sound financial sense when their computer didn't royally get screwed and their business didn't shut down as a result deserves the bill they get from their lawyer after losing their case.

Re:Translation:

[rahvin112]

No precedent. They dropped the appeal and paid her to avoid setting one.

Re:Translation:

[Lonewolf666]

Genuine question from someone not living in the US:

If there was a court decision in the first instance and an aborted appeal, does that mean
-the decision from the first instance stands, creating a precedent
-or is the decision from the first instance somehow nullified?

Any lawyers willing to answer?

Re:Translation:

[Anonymous Coward]

Puny?

I imagine every user that has a bill (a receipt, or obtains a copy receipt) for the botched upgrade or failed rollback can make a claim.

This would be home, work, or any other users, and once the 'floodgates' open properly and it starts hitting the news, you can bet your local IT support bod will know about it (and then support or provide receipts for any claim, maybe for a small fee for the copy receipt).

Precedent has been set. MS appealed it, but then decided to drop the appeal against the *already* *given* verdict.

Re:Translation:

[Anonymous Coward]

The decision should stand. Precedent set.

The appeal could have been dropped for cost reasons (ie: reducing the likelyhood of it hitting media sites such as slashdot and everybody suddenly realising.....)

Re:Translation:

[david_thornley]

There is, as far as I know, no class action lawsuit. This means that everyone who actually kept the receipt has to individually sue Microsoft. Even in small claims court, it's probably not financially advantageous.

Re:Translation:

[david_thornley]

Dropping the appeal means that Microsoft lost in court and decided not to lose in a higher court. The original decision is a precedent, although a non-binding one. (Note: I am a pseudonymous guy on Slashdot who has never studied law.)

Re:Translation:

[Anonymous Coward]

the reason why microsoft settled that case and is now trying to backpeddle on one of the more obnoxious dialog boxes ever is they do NOT want their

policies,
telemetry and spying,
user data collection,
update policies (including severity classification and what goes into each),
activation process (including all the new and uniquely identifying system info they gather and archive forever)

and anything else like that to be exposed in court. simple as that. it would destroy their reputation to the point no amount of feel good marketing with cute little dancing girls would fix. they are simply covering their own corporate spying asses.

I may be a conspiracy theorist...

[cyberjock1980]

Anyone else notice that the "12 month" window to 'upgrade to Windows 10 free' is closing (tomorrow in fact) and so they can now change the behavior and try to act like a poor victim while perhaps posting "1 year adoption rates" much higher than would have been otherwise.

When this crap started I told myself that this will be "rectified" once they have 1 year of Windows 10 being out. Then they can post "their great numbers" which will, naturally include, a lot of accidental upgrades and other people that didn't even want to upgrade.

It really sickens me, and is why I'm still on Windows 7, and dual boot with Linux and FreeBSD. Microsoft's behavior is totally unacceptable.

Re:I may be a conspiracy theorist...

[LichtSpektren]

The "free upgrade" window closes at the end of July. https://support.microsoft.com/...

Re:I may be a conspiracy theorist...

[richy freeway]

It's the 29th July that the offer ends, but yes they've left it a bit late.

Re: I may be a conspiracy theorist...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, I'm just waiting for Microsoft fanboys to argue that people now regret not upgrading, because it costs them money now, and that Microsoft was really just trying to prevent that from happening by forcing them to upgrade.

Re:I may be a conspiracy theorist...

[Anonymous Coward]

I have two dual boot systems here, both with Linux Mint(KDE) and Win7. However I have not booted into Win7 in several weeks now. All of the programs I need either run natively in Linux, or under Wine in Linux. Windows 10 was never a choice for me at all, I will keep full control of my computers and I will NOT be spied upon!

Micro$haft can go FSCK themselves!

Re:I may be a conspiracy theorist...

[Anonymous Coward]

It really sickens me, and is why I'm still on Windows 7, and dual boot with Linux and FreeBSD. Microsoft's behavior is unacceptable half the time.

Fixed that for you.

Now we know our value

[Anonymous Coward]

Well kinda

We are worth between the $50-100 price tag and the $10000 lawsuit :O

Re:What are the alternatives for Windows users?

[flyingfsck]

I think you dismiss the alternatives too easily. I haven't used Windows for about 10 years now and I can't say that I miss the malware and high maintenance experience.

Oh yea, sure

[Anonymous Coward]

More like ".. changed it's stance to the impending tsunami of lawsuits." Way to destroy your customer trust, Microsoft.

Re:What are the alternatives for Windows users?

[LichtSpektren]

What level of cognitive dissonance is required to simultaneously assert that GNOME 3 and systemd were "forced" on Linux distros and then immediately talk about why one wouldn't want to use Linux distros that have voluntarily opted to not use systemd?

In other news...

[Anonymous Coward]

Ford releases fuel line fix for the 1972 Pinto.

Harland and Wolff to equip its steam liners with ice berg protection.

Re:In other news...

[Anonymous Coward]

Harland and Wolff to stop using substandard steel in rivets used between hull plates.

FTFY

Re:If you didn't know about Microsoft a long time

[Yvan256]

Why mention Bill at all? He hasn't been the head of Microsoft for a long, long time.

Re:What are the alternatives for Windows users?

[unrtst]

Using old, potentially-vulnerable versions of Windows long after they're no longer supported isn't a real option, of course.

See here: https://support.microsoft.com/...
Windows 7 end of mainstream support: 2015-01-13 (extended is 2020-01-14)
Windwos 8 end of mainstream support: 2018-01-09 (extended is 2023-01-10)

How is that "long after they're no longer supported"?
And yes, I know 2015 is less than now, but it's not long after, and it's still in extended support. For that matter, vista is still in extended support until Q2 2017!

I shouldn't be feeding the trolls at all, but continuing to use those *should* be a valid option. That said, I'd still recommend GNU/Linux or MacOSX.

DumAss

[Anonymous Coward]

Fucking Whoosh!

Re:What are the alternatives for Windows users?

[LichtSpektren]

The problem goes far beyond systemd and GNOME. Linux is great for servers, not so much for the desktop. When Linux Torvalds first created Linux it wasn't designed to be a mass-market operating system. It was designed by geeks for geeks. A bunch of fucktarded neckbeards who don't give two shits about usability, only blind adherence to an Orwellian mindset of "the only way to be free is to do exactly what I say."

Yes, when it was first designed, it was a school hobby project by a kernel hacker. But that was over 20 years ago. And assuredly you're not going to say that anything that begun as a hobby must be a toy for its entire lifespan?

But you don't need to list all the ways that Linux sucks and is horrendously inferior on the desktop. Just one simple fact says it all. When you put everything on a level playing field -- Linux is free and so is a pirated copy of Windows -- people always choose Windows.

Really? I didn't choose Windows. Nor did the millions of people that use desktop Linux.
People only use (and pirate) Windows because billions of dollars of legacy x86 apps that were written when Microsoft had a monopoly on the OS market due to their lucky deal with IBM. Don't believe me?--how much money has Microsoft written off for Windows Mobile and Windows RT, again?

Even when Windows isn't free (i.e., businesses who need to keep things legal so they don't get shaken down by the BSA Mafia) they still choose Windows. The only place you're seeing any adoption of Linux on the desktop is a few European companies, and that's due to anti-American sentiment more than any technical superiority.

Instead of verifying that you don't know what you're talking about and/or are lying, why don't you do some simple research? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

is it easier then quitting MS Skype now?

[4wdloop]

I cant wait for all Windows programs will stop existing and instead go minimize or "better" yet assume 'OK' on any dialog: "format drinve C: Ok Cancel?"

Re:is it easier then quitting MS Skype now?

[rahvin112]

Following the windows 10 example it wouldn't be Ok / Cancel. It would be format C:? Now / Later.

This was the problem, when the dialog initially appeared there were two selections, either of them gave permission to install windows 10. The only way to reject the install was to hit the close X in the upper right (which microsoft later removed). You're arguably trying to deceive users when you give them a choice to install something but both choices are yes.

Nice Try, Assholes

[ewhac]

I'm still not installing KB3035583.

The best solution

[Anonymous Coward]

The best solution is to use the anti-trust laws to break Microsoft into 5 pieces: OS, Apps, Gaming, Business services, and Advertising/Bing. Make sure to charge the CEO and other executives with racketeering: They are engaged in deceptive and criminal behavior (taking over a computer system without permission) for financial gain (advertising revenue). The entire reason that GWX is such a shit fest is all the advertising revenue and telemetry that they will get has caused them to go full Darth Vader. If advertising gets yanked and is a separate entity no longer allowed to be integrated into the OS and MSOS must stand and succeed on its own, there is zero driving force to piss off paying customers. If MSOS wants to go subscription based, I would be fine paying $20/year, but a PC is not a toy like a tablet or a smart phone. People depend on their PCs for their livelihood, their business and key personal activities like banking/taxes/schooling etc. If my kindle fire tablet has advertising, that's fine, I bought it with that understanding and at the end of the day, it is a toy that the kids watch Netflix on. My PC is a key tool that cannot be fucked with.

Re:The best solution

[secretsquirel]

" If my kindle fire tablet has advertising, that's fine, I bought it with that understanding and at the end of the day, it is a toy that the kids watch Netflix on."

agree to disagree

Re:If you didn't know about Microsoft a long time

[spire3661]

He is still a majority stockholder, only Ballmer has more. Its still his company whether hes on the board or not..

In response to customer feedback?

[QuietLagoon]

...Microsoft officials said they are making the change "in response to customer feedback."...

Oh please. If Microsoft had cared in the slightest bit about customer feedback, they would not have been on the losing side of a lawsuit in the first place.

.
Instead, Microsoft lowered itself to using some of the sleaziest tactics a vendor could use. Changing Windows UI guidelines to trick the customer into doing something the customer explicitly did not want to do? It is beyond belief that any vendor, much less a reputable vendor, would resort to such low-life trickery of their customer base.

imo, Microsoft knew all along exactly what they were doing and the effect it would have. I would be surprised if Microsoft's legal department were not involved at every step of deception.

In my view, Microsoft blew their reputation. Big time. Blown right out of the water.

It may take years for Microsoft to regain the confidence and trust of its customers once again. But by then, I have to wonder how many of those customers have moved on to Linux or MacOS. I know I am testing Linux on my notebook now. It is doing all that I need it to do, so much so that I have wondered why I even bothered with Windows in the first place.

Re: In response to customer feedback?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Changing Windows UI guidelines to trick the customer into doing something the customer explicitly did not want to do? It is beyond belief that any vendor, much less a reputable vendor, would resort to such low-life trickery of their customer base."

This is the most concise explanation I've seen. If Microsoft can do this in plain view, there is no conceivable limit to what they are doing behind everyone's back.

Re:In response to customer feedback?

[Anonymous Coward]

...Microsoft officials said they are making the change "in response to customer feedback."...

Torches and pitchforks count as customer feedback too.

this is just the start.

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft is the master in making things intentionally incompatible. Ever noticed how simple business related functions in (that surely are in test cases) break between Microsoft office versions, and are never fixed in any of the updates? Microsoft offers only one solution: buy the newest versions, and that will be broken too when the following version comes around.

Expect things like printer and file sharing, to be broken just enough to be unusable when there is any Win-10 in the mix.
Of course, if your use open-source servers and client software for file, printer and e-mail sharing, you can mix every version from Win-98 to Win-10, and it will all happily work together.

Reminds me of the rape-joke shirt from this year

[Anonymous Coward]

It was sold at forever 21 (teen girls clothing) and caused quite the social stir. It said "Don't say maybe if you mean to say no." Would love to see some of M$'s suits wearing that one with a win/10/brazzers logo along the bottom.

Re:What are the alternatives for Windows users?

[Blaskowicz]

If Windows is due to legacy of the 80s and 90s then where's the linux freeware, payware and shareware?
There's fuck all on that front. 99% is free and open source software. Typically on a system the only linux proprietary software you'll find is Oracle Virtualbox (some of the "extended" features), Google Earth and (few) Steam games. Some crap like Skype for those who want it.

It's great that way, but I miss the Windows days, with more software and less OS upgrades.

Still not sure what everything is about...

[Anonymous Coward]

Everyone I know who has a Win10 upgrade capable box who hasn't wanted to upgrade yet hasn't. Most of these people are non tech people who don't know that it's possible to disable the upgrade offer, let alone understand what's going on.

Precisely 0 machines have had Win10 force on it. Even my mom who often randomly clicks when she's lost still isn't on W10 and she's been asking about the prompt. (I just simply respond that it's her decision and do nothing)

Re:Still not sure what everything is about...

[Darinbob]

You need to get around more then, or read more news, because it is real and people have been upgraded without ever clicking on a "yes" button.

Re:What are the alternatives for Windows users?

[macs4all]

Yes, when it was first designed, it was a school hobby project by a kernel hacker. But that was over 20 years ago. And assuredly you're not going to say that anything that begun as a hobby must be a toy for its entire lifespan?

No. With well over a hundred different Distros and more petty squabbling and "religious-war" infighting than the U.S. Republican Party, "Linux" is doing a fine job of that all on its own...

What coincidence!

[Opportunist]

A month before ending the "free" offer, they graciously allow us to not update if we so please.

Microsoft? Hi. Listen, please do us a favor? Go play with something explosive, will ya?

I know..... feeding the trolls....

[gosand]

The only place you're seeing any adoption of Linux on the desktop is a few European companies, and that's due to anti-American sentiment more than any technical superiority.

Sure, we all know you are trolling. But why not throw in some fun (actual) facts?

There is a company who uses Linux on their desktops. They are slightly technical, and you may have heard of them - Google.
And although it was about 4 years ago, there was a nice article about Goobuntu (their modified version of Ubuntu) on ZDNET. Another interesting fact from the article is that they were paying customers for it, and not the largest. Things may have changed since then, I don't know. But I do know that they haven't switched over to Windows.

What I really don't understand is what you get out of your copy/paste trolling. Or do you really believe what you posted? Either way, you're obviously wrong. But then again, you're posting as an AC, so what else could be expected.

I remember back in the good old days when trolls at least had a little bit of skill.

After Billions in Headaches and lost productivity

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft only has to pay 10,000

The American justice criminal system has was worked flawlessly once again.

Re:If you didn't know about Microsoft a long time

[LVSlushdat]

I did the "Wireshark" thing a few months ago. Put a remote packet capture daemon on my router, and pointed a copy of Wireshark at it, and watched what a "castrated" install of 10 talked to, and then, as a control, an UNcastrated, default-install of 10, provided by friends.. Bottom line, there was hardly any difference between the two captures... Which tells me one VERY important thing.. All of the cutesy-tootsie toggle switches that make you *think* you're disabling the spyware aspects of 10 are just a smoke-screen... Sooooooooooo very glad I gave up the Windows addiction when I retired in 2010....

Re:What are the alternatives for Windows users?

[Anonymous Coward]

When you put everything on a level playing field -- Linux is free and so is a pirated copy of Windows -- people always choose Windows.

People choose what they are already familiar with. Your apparent inference that that's because Windows is so much better is very much in line with the meagre analytical capabilities of your average Windows shill.

Wonderful ...

[Dishevel]

How nice of them to do this after the free upgrade period is over.

License cutoff

[phorm]

Actually, one thing I was wondering is how exactly the licensing works. For what I do use windows for, I'd currently rather stay with Win8. However if there is some need to move to win10, I was thinking of just imaging my OS partition for now, installing, and grabbing the license key for future installs (then restoring the image)

Anyone know if this should work or would that invalidate my license on the older OS? Having the image will also be nice in case win10 (likely) blows up with my dual-bootloader config etc.

Re:License cutoff

[Anonymous Coward]

The 'license key' is in MS' cloud for Win10, not in your computer. Good luck!

That said, restoring within 30 days of "upgrade" should automagically make your old thing activate again (if needed; when I restored from a Win7 image it was simply activated without any special procedures). AFTER 30 days, yes, you might need to do some negotiation with the activation clowns to get an old version working again.

If you do a clean install, there should be a way to dual-boot 10 and an older version, as long as the older one is on a separate disk/partition and is the same "bitness" (32- or 64-bit). It was that way in earlier Windows version upgrades too. Supposedly, you can register and activate a clean install using your old (7 or 8) license key now; don't necessarily have to do the "free" upgrade first, but as with all upgrades once you do that your old key is no longer valid so I'm not sure how the dual-boot will work - but it should work if you do things right.

Re:License cutoff

[jonwil]

I haven't tried it yet (will be trying it this week) but this forum post I found on another forum
https://www.gog.com/forum/gene...
shows what is claimed to be a way to get the free Windows 10 upgrade without actually needing to install Windows 10 or replace your existing Windows install.

Re: What are the alternatives for Windows users?

[Anonymous Coward]

For the bulk of my family have already moved on to smartphones and occasionally uses grandma computer (she likes apple logo better) The only OS i need to do my job is a linux compute farm, laptops are just a dumb terminal that could be replaced with my smartphone just as soon as they can display VNC across two monitors. Lol

IMHO this debate is over for the past few years. Windows/MacOS are for dinosaurs or nitch developers, clearly not for the mainstream.

Maybe the alternatives are just smartphone Apps

new rule: let us eat cake

[epine]

in response to customer feedback

... as filtered through legal counsel.

Re:What are the alternatives for Windows users?

[Anonymous Coward]

> systemd and GNOME 3 have been forced on nearly the entire Linux user community

The vast majority of Linux based distros, nearly a billion a year, do not use systemd or Gnone 3 at all. They are called Android, FireOS, Tizen, ChromeOS, and others.

All distros that have Gnome 3 available also have several other environments which can be installed easily, if they are not already done so, and selected at login. These include: KDE, LXDE, Mate, Cinnamon, XFCE, and others. Nothing is forced, it is about choice.

Re:What are the alternatives for Windows users?

[Anonymous Coward]

> Linux is free and so is a pirated copy of Windows -- people always choose Windows.

You are suggesting that people should break the law and 'steal' from Microsoft.

> Even when Windows isn't free (i.e., businesses who need to keep things legal so they don't get shaken down by the BSA Mafia) they still choose Windows.

Windows isn't free when a new computer is purchased with it installed. However, people do not always choose Windows. For desktop and laptop more than 10% choose Apple. For phones less than 2% choose Windows.

> that's due to anti-American sentiment

With people like you I am not surprised.

But what is your actual problem, why would you care whether people choose Windows, MacOS, Linux or BSD ? What pain do you suffer when another OS is installed ? Is it a personal affront when I walk past the Windows computers in a retail store without buying one ?

No longer free doesn't mean no more auto update

[Anonymous Coward]

I can see Microsoft still automatically upgrading machines after the "Free" period being over and then having a nag screen asking for money to "register" your newly upgraded system.

Re:If you didn't know about Microsoft a long time

[Voyager529]

Genuine question: Did you also do a Wireshark session on a Win10 machine after running both Spybot Anti-Beacon and O&O ShutUp 10? They appear to do more than the regular placebo that the toggle switches, but I definitely would be interested in whether they cause a reduction in that sort of traffic.

Re:If you didn't know about Microsoft a long time

[Anonymous Coward]

How the hell does your local time figure into this at all?

If you're not using javascript, the server can't get your local time. Last I checked, no timestamps are sent over HTTP GET/POST requests.

And the server has it's own timestamps for everything, so the fact that your IP is logged at a certain time is inescapable.

Re:What are the alternatives for Windows users?

[Lonewolf666]

For the potentially-vulnerable aspect extended support is sufficient. Extended support means that the OS still gets security patches, just no more functional updates.

For drivers it depends on the hardware vendors, some stop making drivers for old operating systems before those reach their end of extended support. Case in point:
The PC I built in 2007, with a then fairly new Nvidia GeForce 8600 GT. Windows 2000 was still in extended support, but Nvidia did not make any more drivers for Windows 2000. I ended up switching to XP because of that, otherwise I'd have kept Windows 2000 for a few more years.

BTW, the other way round (old hardware on new OSes) Nvidia are fairly good at long term support. Support for the 8600 GT lasted almost nine years after release. The final driver is version 341.95 from March 2016, supports Windows 10 and is still available for download.

Microsoft Marketing 101

[emaname]

Axiom #10: It's easier to ask for forgiveness that it is for permission.

Re:Microsoft Marketing 101

[Darinbob]

Axiom #11: It's easier to tell the customer that they're using it wrong than to actually make the product work correctly.

A day late and dollar short

[Anonymous Coward]

I think it's a bit too late to be a good company for Microsoft. They overstepped the line pushing their Windows 10 upgrade. Because it was free, they thought they would certainly get way more adopters than they did. Again, they did not take into account what users wanted in a OS. Mostly one that did just that be a operating system and nothing more. So instead they decided to trick users, or nag them into a upgrade to Win 10. It backfired into a negative press mess that created much discard for Windows 10 which is not really bad. But Microsoft never did it justice in how it marketed it to users. Microsoft deserves what they get in bad press for what they did.

So Microsoft is going to learn that NO means NO ?

[DickBreath]

I find myself skeptical. What about Microsoft's "forced install" culture?

Win. 8 vs. Win. 10

[nevermore94]

Can someone provide a honest non-paranoid schizophrenic listing of reasons to or not to upgrade from Windows 8 to Windows 10?
This is for my dedicated Windows gaming machine. I have other Linux servers and Android devices for other things.
I currently run Start 8 on it to make it look pretty much like Windows 7 and I would run Start 10 on it if I upgraded to do the same.
DirectX 12 support is already one big reason to upgrade.

Re:Win. 8 vs. Win. 10

[david_thornley]

Windows 8, probably worth upgrading. Older Windows 7 computers may have problems with Windows 10. There's the spyware, but reportedly Microsoft's been putting it into Windows 7 and 8. You lose a media player, IIRC, with Windows 10, and you lose a lot of control over updates, but if it's a gaming machine that shouldn't be a concern.

Re:Win. 8 vs. Win. 10

[TangoMargarine]

Conspicuously missing from your analysis was any benefits to upgrading...

Re:Win. 8 vs. Win. 10

[Darinbob]

First step: come up with a rational reason up upgrade to Windows 10. I haven't seen one so far. Sure, if you're on Windows XP then upgrade to something. But if you're on Windows 7/8/8.1 then I haven't seen any reason to upgrade. Don't upgrade if there's no point to it, no matter which OS it is - it's time consuming and a headache, and a major time waster and major heachache if it screws up.

The whole reason for all this adware and begging and subterfuge to get people to upgrade to Windows 10 is because Microsoft knows there's not much there to entice people into upgrading normally. If they had a solid product then customers would upgrade voluntarily on their own. Especially when it's FREE and people are still wary of upgrading then you know something's off.

If it's for gaming, note that no one's really using DirectX 12 yet, just a couple games that no one is every going to miss, and there's no real advantage to using it instead of DX11. Future games will see that so many customers are avoiding Windows 10 that they will be hesitant to remove DX10/11 support and piss off the paying customers.

I would suggest getting Windows 8.1 over Windows 8 if you haven't done that though.

Re:Win. 8 vs. Win. 10

[b783719]

Emm, these are a few reasons you may not want to upgrade from Win8 to Win10

- Compatibility of Software
- Driver Availability / without Issues or Bugs (You can install an older driver in Win10 if it works)
- Windows Stability (not vulnerability. If you clean install Win10, it should have a better stability)
- Separate Touch Mode (Some people favor Win8 touch features)
- Controllable Update Option (In Win8, you can control windows from deleting software, auto update and resetting preference. In Win10 even after you look for all option, you can only pick either install all updates or install none)
- Privacy (More settings/ items to disable around in Win10 compare to Win8. Note changes to privacy may break Win10 internet features)

and other reasons you may want to upgrade from Win8 to Win10
- Start Menu
- Contana Assistant
- Up-to-date Windows Store Apps
- A little Faster Boot
- Up-to-date Security
- Task Bar Internet Search

In short, if you don't have that many games or software, you likely won't find too much Bugs or incompatibility from Win8 and upgrade to Win10 won't be too bad. If you have doubt, get yourself a new hard drive and install Win10. If you like it, you upgrade it. If not, you switch back.

Re:Win. 8 vs. Win. 10

[Anonymous Coward]

Emm, these are a few reasons you may not want to upgrade from Win8 to Win10

- Compatibility of Software

Between Windows 8 and 10, there is nothing that breaks. There may be Windows 7 stuff that breaks in 10.

- Driver Availability / without Issues or Bugs (You can install an older driver in Win10 if it works)

Again, an issue in Windows 7, not in Windows 8. All Windows 8 devices came with the same requirements that Windows 10 have. Only marginal cases - there are Winbooks with 16GB of Flash drive which CANNOT have Windows 10, since the OS alone eats up 12GB.

- Windows Stability (not vulnerability. If you clean install Win10, it should have a better stability)

It is a good idea, if one has all the Windows 8 data backed up to OneDrive. That's what I did, and then wiped the system clean.

- Separate Touch Mode (Some people favor Win8 touch features)

Which one can get in Windows 10 in Tablet mode. In fact, in Windows 10 tablet mode, one doesn't have to go into the clumsy desktop, which is annoying if one is using one's finger on a touchscreen, as opposed to a mouse or trackpad

- Controllable Update Option (In Win8, you can control windows from deleting software, auto update and resetting preference. In Win10 even after you look for all option, you can only pick either install all updates or install none)

Yeah, that's an issue, which they are hopefully fixing. I wish they'd include an option that says 'Update next time I shut down/restart'

- Privacy (More settings/ items to disable around in Win10 compare to Win8. Note changes to privacy may break Win10 internet features)

MS just needs to make the defaults identical to Windows 8, or at least, more privacy friendly

and other reasons you may want to upgrade from Win8 to Win10
- Start Menu

Actually, I installed Classic Shell. While that was not a cure in Windows 8, which still had those hot corners & charms bar, it's a godsend in Windows 10 and can make your system look like Windows 7, XP or maybe even 2000 (in classic mode)

- Contana Assistant

Which I don't use

- Up-to-date Windows Store Apps

Store has been non functional a few times for me - clicking the shopping bag just gives a blue window and then closes again. There are no online fixes, and suddenly one fine day, the store starts working again.

- A little Faster Boot

Didn't notice a difference there

- Up-to-date Security

True

- Task Bar Internet Search

Ain't that there in both?

In short, if you don't have that many games or software, you likely won't find too much Bugs or incompatibility from Win8 and upgrade to Win10 won't be too bad. If you have doubt, get yourself a new hard drive and install Win10. If you like it, you upgrade it. If not, you switch back.

Good advice!!!

if you've had enough of abusive corporations...

[dbreeze]

...hit 'em with a leg sweep... http://www.movetoamend.org/
Mebbe some of them will decide to play nice once we snatch their teeth out.

Re:What are the alternatives for Windows users?

[TangoMargarine]

When Linux Torvalds first created Linux it wasn't designed to be a mass-market operating system. It was designed by geeks for geeks. A bunch of fucktarded neckbeards who don't give two shits about usability

Don't confuse "Linux Torvalds" with the GNOME devs. He does and has given various arrogant developers both barrels when they do something stupid. In fact he specifically called out GNOME3 for that exact thing.

A bunch of fucktarded neckbeards who don't give two shits about usability, only blind adherence to an Orwellian mindset of "the only way to be free is to do exactly what I say."

Or a more accurate way to say it, "if you don't like how I do it, fork it and do it your own way." I'd like to hear about how you think proprietary software is any more free than that.

When you put everything on a level playing field -- Linux is free and so is a pirated copy of Windows -- people always choose Windows.

Like the other replier said, not true. You kids and your silly absolute statements.

Re:If you didn't know about Microsoft a long time

[Anonymous Coward]

He is still a majority stockholder

Parsing error. How can one be "a" majority stockholder? Either

A) you yourself own a majority of the stock and are thus THE majority stockholder, or
B) you yourself own a minority of the stock, which when combined with other stockholders makes up a majority, in which case who we include in said pool is arbitrary.

Unless we're making the common mistake and saying "majority" when we mean "plurality"...not that that term doesn't really suffer from the same arguments, though.

Are they not merciful?

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

Well, aren't they?

Re:What are the alternatives for Windows users?

[Anonymous Coward]

Likely a realization that systemd is the future of Linux - whether anyone likes it or not. It seems like the vast majority of Linux users with technical knowledge to make the distinction are firmly in the "not" category, as well.

I'd be lying if I said I knew much about the Linux init process, but it seems to be playing out this way. Although systemd makes me very, *very* leery, I am also aware that without it there are probably starting to be a number of services that will not run without it, and other init software may be flagging in terms of continued work and maintenance.

Re:If you didn't know about Microsoft a long time

[Anonymous Coward]

Is that video available anywhere? I'd like to see it, if it is.

Hey $10000 for Windows 10 upgrade

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think she deserved it. The rest of us deserve it, we clicked on the red x which is the Roman numeral representation of TEN.

Re:What are the alternatives for Windows users?

[Darinbob]

The functional updates are generally pointless anyway. Most updates of any value only ever shows up in the latest releases. Once there's a new Windows version the previous version stops getting anything useful except for some crash fixes. Windows 8 has mainstream support until 2018, but I can say with high confidence that they will never port DirectX 12 to it for example.

Re:If you didn't know about Microsoft a long time

[Darinbob]

You can block with the router. However the script I saw that tried to do this was extremely broad. It blocked skype for instance, not just some part of skype but "*.skype.com". I don't use skype but it didn't give me a good feeling that they were using pinpoint accuracy.

Re:What are the alternatives for Windows users?

[Anonymous Coward]

And assuredly you're not going to say that anything that begun as a hobby must be a toy for its entire lifespan?

The successor to QDOS are still Quick'n'Dirty... Well, dirty, there's not much quick about them anymore.

Re:What are the alternatives for Windows users?

[houghi]

People only use (and pirate) Windows because billions of dollars of legacy x86 apps that were written when Microsoft had a monopoly on the OS market due to their lucky deal with IBM

The fact that so much software was written for it was a result. The reason really is pre-installation.

People just has happily buy Apple or Android stuff now. Sure, some people will be installing Windows because they need a specific software to work (and I even include games here). The majority of people will not need that. They will need to be able to use the Google and Facebook. They might need sometimes need to print out a letter. And they need to listen to music and watch films and the pictures of their grand children.

That is the majority of people. So why don't they use Linux? Because it did not come with the PC.

Just like car radios, there are way better radios available, yet people just go with what is already in there.

I know there are some PCs you can buy with Linux, but people who are interested in that will already know what distro they want and will install it themselves anyway. I am talking about the PCs at Amazon and Best Buy and the like where your neighbours grandpa gets his PC from.

Wish I had mod points

[Anonymous Coward]

I really do

Re:What are the alternatives for Windows users?

[LichtSpektren]

Yes, when it was first designed, it was a school hobby project by a kernel hacker. But that was over 20 years ago. And assuredly you're not going to say that anything that begun as a hobby must be a toy for its entire lifespan?

No. With well over a hundred different Distros and more petty squabbling and "religious-war" infighting than the U.S. Republican Party, "Linux" is doing a fine job of that all on its own...

Isn't it amazing, macs4all, that even despite all the conflicts, we Linux users still have an abundance of freedom of choice and customization, and still have a superior experience to Macs?

Re:What are the alternatives for Windows users?

[macs4all]

Isn't it amazing, macs4all, that even despite all the conflicts, we Linux users still have an abundance of freedom of choice and customization, and still have a superior experience to Macs?

I agree that you have an abundance of freedom of choice and customization; because that's all you have.

But a "superior experience"? Not even close.

Re:What are the alternatives for Windows users?

[LichtSpektren]

Isn't it amazing, macs4all, that even despite all the conflicts, we Linux users still have an abundance of freedom of choice and customization, and still have a superior experience to Macs?

I agree that you have an abundance of freedom of choice and customization; because that's all you have. But a "superior experience"? Not even close.

That's nice. I'm glad you're happy with your computer. I'll be using one with equivalent specs but half the price, better performance, and a workflow customized to my liking.

This happend deliberately too late

[dddux]

They will make it easier to decline W10 installation because the main goal has been already achieved - the dumbest part of the population have already been upgraded and there's no point in doing it any more. Also, losing the case in court helped, too, as they want to avoid losing money like that. It's all really carefully pre-calculated. They're not as dumb as you might think. This is like saying sorry to your neighbour after you've already shit on his porch.

Re:What are the alternatives for Windows users?

[macs4all]

That's nice. I'm glad you're happy with your computer. I'll be using one with equivalent specs but half the price, better performance, and a workflow customized to my liking.

...and a Warranty that... Oh, wait.

What "workflow" are you talking about? Every OS on the planet has pretty much solved the same challenges is pretty much the same way. The GUI may be slightly different (or in the case of the UI-Formerly-Known-As-Metro, completely different); but underneath it all, OSes are like DNA: The similarities from one species to another FAR outweigh the differences.

So I can't even fathom what you are trying to communicate with your "Workflow customized to my liking" comment, seriously. Your words are a non-sequitur. Your facts are un-coordinated.

STERILIZE! STERILIZE! STER-I-LIIIIIZE!!!!

Re:If you didn't know about Microsoft a long time

[Anonymous Coward]

the fact that your IP is logged at a certain time is inescapable

https://panopticlick.eff.org/
http://browserspy.dk/browser.php

Notice how even browserspy.dk requires javascript and contacts Google tracking servers AS YOU TEST YOUR BROWSER ID?

Nobody is saying change your time to mess up the monitoring of SERVERS. It is about changing your time to mess up the monitoring of CLIENTS.

You need javascript for financial transactions, account management, forum posting (not necessarily reading), paying bills, making purchases whether on Amazon or smaller retail site. The cross-referencing ability with regard to monitoring and profiling is clear. Your clearnet surfing tells a lot about what you are thinking to people who can't do anything good with that information.

The same people monitoring and profiling you are the ones hoping to take your guns away too. "They can protect you". They can not protect themselves.

Ever heard of Ed Snowden? Use this for anything you want secure. Burn it to a CD or a thumb drive or boot it in a VM. Monitor that shit.
https://kat.cr/tails-1-4-1-i386-iso-multilang-tntvillage-t10922671.html
http://lsuzvpko6w6hzpnn.onion/tails-1-4-1-i386-iso-multilang-tntvillage-t10922671.html

Re:If you didn't know about Microsoft a long time

[Anonymous Coward]

> Set your PC time to an inaccurate time.
nobody cares, if the timestamp is generated by the receiving server.

Re:If you didn't know about Microsoft a long time

[Anonymous Coward]

Facebook IP address/timestamps/content posted. Porn surfing. Google Street View where the license plates are only blurred on the public's end.

cross-referenced in seconds and never advertised that they do. the best kept secret that is not secret

Re:If you didn't know about Microsoft a long time

[Anonymous Coward]

All sounds like javascript to me.