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That Digital Music Service You Love Is a Terrible Business (fortune.com)

An anonymous Slashdot reader quotes an article from Fortune: Rdio goes bankrupt, Pandora hangs out a 'For Sale' sign and then gets rid of its CEO, artists and labels ramp up their criticism of YouTube. Now we have Tidal in acquisition talks with Apple, while Spotify complains about Apple treating it unfairly... the digital music business is becoming an industry in which only a truly massive company with huge scale and deep pockets can hope to compete... Rdio went bankrupt last year in large part because it couldn't afford to make the licensing payments the record industry requires of streaming services. Deezer, a European service, postponed a planned initial public offering partly because its business is financially shaky for the same reason... [Rhapsody] is still racking up massive losses... Spotify has found it almost impossible to make money, primarily because of onerous licensing payments...

[A]ll the available evidence seems to show that the digital-music business, at least the way it is currently structured, simply isn't economic. The only way for anyone to even come close to making it work is to make it part of a much larger company, like Apple or Amazon or Google. That way they can absorb the losses, they have the heft to negotiate with the record industry, and they can find synergies with their other businesses. In other words, music as a standalone business appears to be dead, or at least on life support.

The article links to an essay by a former eMusic CEO arguing high royalty rates make it impossible to have a profitable business, and the music industry "buried more than 150 startups -- now they are left to dance with the giants."

240 comments

  1. Uhh... by ShooterNeo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So it seems like there's 2 problems here :

    1. These "services" all offer an awful lot of service for free, but have to pay per song played. This is a guaranteed trip to the poorhouse.

    2. Those payments per song? They don't go down with scale or time. Google and other internet companies, their cost of delivering service goes down with technology advances and sheer size. It costs google a lot less to deliver gmail service or web searches than when they started.

    The only way this can work is if the record labels - who own everything and do not have to pay themselves - offer a service. Kind of how all of the free porn sites who also own most of the porn producers are owned by the same company.

    1. Re:Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The better way this can work is reset copyright back to its original length of time - 14 years, and also set maximum royalties that they can charge for the privilege of their copyright. The industry might suffer a bit (boo hoo), but the artists will come out ahead since self publishing is much easier now. Their royalties would climb dramatically without the industry skimming so much.

      Of course the best way is to abolish copyright altogether, and artists get paid for performing their work like the rest of us. Getting paid when a machine plays a recording is ludicrous!

    2. Re:Uhh... by known_coward_69 · · Score: 1

      this is why apple is buying Tidal

    3. Re:Uhh... by tepples · · Score: 1

      The only way this can work is if the record labels - who own everything and do not have to pay themselves - offer a service.

      One service offered by labels is relationships with vehicular listening platforms that do not require a cellular data subscription, namely FM stations and SiriusXM. (SiriusXM requires a subscription, but the annual rate is less than that of a typical postpaid cellular data plan.)

      I make an educated guess that another such service is familiarity with a large repertoire of music. Clearance personnel in a label and/or its affiliated music publisher might help review your songs to catch having accidentally copied part of someone else's song before you publish and get sued.

    4. Re:Uhh... by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Of course the best way is to abolish copyright altogether, and artists get paid for performing their work like the rest of us. Getting paid when a machine plays a recording is ludicrous!

      Hey Anonymous Coward, quick question. My brother is an author. How does he get paid for 'performing' his work?

    5. Re:Uhh... by Zaelath · · Score: 0

      Mmm depends, last time I looked Pandora was only streaming 96kbps for free and you had ads, annoyingly repetitive ads, really annoying, and really really repetitive, really. Repetitive and annoying. As I recall.

      Personally I won't listen to 96kbps for long, it's just too flat and horrible, like AM radio.

      I will use these kind of services to find something to go buy... then I'll rip it at a decent bit-rate and listen to that. That the RIAA etc want anyone to pay for providing infrastructure to advertise their wares to the general public is beyond my ken.

      I could understand if they wanted to limit the maximum bit-rate say, but pay because it's delivered over wire instead of air? It's complete nonsense, and they're just hurting themselves. Wire even generates more sales since "real" radio stations don't back announce any more and not all car radios display the song name (and they sure don't let me check what the previous song was).

    6. Re:Uhh... by MightyYar · · Score: 5, Funny

      The topic was music, but maybe he can sell hats.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    7. Re: Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He doesn't. He obviously writes for the love of it and the joy of knowing he has spread knowledge among his fellow humans, making the world a better place. He didn't write those books. He stands on the shoulders of giants. He can put a digital tip jar on his website for anyone who likes his work enough to donate.

      The information wants to be free!

    8. Re: Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The barrier to entry is basically zero. From bandcamp, to cd baby and tunecore, right now it's ridiculously easy to self publish. There is no barrier to self publishing. And we're still not making any money.

    9. Re:Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Same way an artist does, touring and selling collectible physical versions of his work. If your brother becomes a King or Rowling, then you make the real money with movie/TV adaptations.

      If your brother is even a semi-good writer, I can pirate his ebook rather easily. So no, expecting to make a living on straight book sales is largely a fool's errand. I would hope he is writing for the love of it, and wants as many readers as possible, because otherwise he's probably an idiot...a poor idiot.

    10. Re:Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My digital music service is awesome. It's called "The Pirate Bay".

    11. Re:Uhh... by PRMan · · Score: 1

      Apple should buy Disney instead. And Google should buy Universal (because Sony and Comcast just don't go along with "Don't be evil"). So, that leaves Microsoft to buy Comcast. Sounds like a perfect fit. Then they can fire the MAFIAA and make the world a wonderful place.

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    12. Re:Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Well, then you're a fucking moron who expects people who dedicate the hours necessary to write and create pretty much anything to do so and not need food, a house, or any other basic necessity. Did the post to which you responded mention ebooks?

      Oh, that's right - people who create need 'real jobs' to support themselves while still putting in the hours to write even "semi-good" so I guess they don't need sleep either.

      Expecting to write one book, a few stories, or one or two CDs and suddenly be wealthy is idiotic - absolutely true. Calling someone an idiot because they want to make enough money from what they love to do it full time... that's just stupid.

    13. Re: Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh well, I guess you gotta sell concert tickets then, and work for a living. Back to the trenches, all of you! Time for you to come back to earth. The days of *artist as king* are over.

    14. Re:Uhh... by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      I've been saying that Apple should buy Disney for years. Apple wants to stream their shows, and Disney/ABC wants to bundle things to prop up their sports franchise, ESPN, which Apple doesn't want to force upon everybody. Apple could buy them pretty easily, fire the upper management, make the deals, and spin them off again to avoid becoming another Sony.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    15. Re: Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not the parent poster, but I don't see how copyright is required for a book author to sustain a living.

      If you (or your brother, sister, lawn care specialist) wants to make a living writing a single book and expecting to make money from it for their entire life PLUS 70 years is absolutely fucking assinine.

      10 years, tops. Even then I don't see the point. If you can't find another way to make money, or come up with another book idea in that time, then maybe writing isn't for you (or your brother, sister, lawn care specialist).

    16. Re:Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Well, then you're a fucking moron who expects people"

      I don't "expect" anything. I'm just telling it like it is. Making a living as an author is extremely difficult, even if there wasn't pirating. People are becoming accustomed to getting digital media for free or extremely cheap.

      "Calling someone an idiot because they want to make enough money from what they love to do it full time... that's just stupid"

      Come back to reality. We'd all love to make a living off of what we do, but making a living off the arts is like winning the lottery. There's too much free/discounted stuff out there for the masses to want to pay top dollar for something that can be easily acquired for free.

    17. Re:Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait, without copyright, how does he make money with movie/TV adaptations? Are you talking paid consulting gigs? Because the only reason authors get paid anything for movie deals is because they own the rights to selling copies of their work.

    18. Re:Uhh... by geoskd · · Score: 1

      Hey Anonymous Coward, quick question. My brother is an author. How does he get paid for 'performing' his work?

      The same way artists through the ages have earned a living: Through the patronage of wealthy benefactors. It was one of the basic ways that the wealthy could give back to society. It is a component of the social contract that has been falling into disuse lately, and we are definitely not better off with copyright as its replacement.

      Just because you lack the imagination and foresight to see a viable way to earn a living from it doesn't mean that others are similarly handicapped. Please refrain from imposing your own shortsightedness and lack of historical awareness onto my society.

      --
      I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted
    19. Re: Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Although copyright is not required to sustain a living, it helps. A lot.

      However, copyright as it is - effectively indefinite - is basically stealing. From the public.

      The entire reasoning for the "limited monopoly," as specified in at least the United States Constitution, is to encourage the development of works for the public benefit. It is by definition for a limited time, because copyright, at its core, is an INFRINGEMENT on the rights of the general population. It is a TOLERATED violation of basic principles laid out there.

      As-is, copyright is an abomination, and people who want to suck on it for the rest of their lives and assert dominion over whatever they wrote or sang or belched have made it both dangerous and far more trouble than it was ever worth. Back it down to a duration that will be WELL within the lifetime of most of those who see the work in the first place, and not "maybe my grandchildren if Disney doesn't pay for another extension," and it will contribute to society again. As-is, it's just an impediment to just about everything it was designed to help with, from storytelling to software development to innovation of all kinds. And it is this kind of encroachment that is being used to justify forbidding fixing your tractor, reselling your car, and a host of other ridiculous things. These new stipulations on copyright, however, say nothing of the far more vast damage that it does to other intellectual works. Society is built upon that which came before, and it does it without rental fees. Giving a cut to the person who advanced it is fair. Giving them control in effective perpetuity is anything but.

      As a final note, this is usually replied to with, "you wouldn't work for free, would you?" As a matter of fact, I would, if I had the skill. And fortunately for all of us, hundreds of thousands of people do, as is evidenced by this web site, which wouldn't even exist if it weren't for projects like Linux and Apache, which are but a relatively small portion of the wealth of open source software available. And if you look around the Internet, there is plenty more talent to contribute that in fact does it out of love, only it doesn't have the corporate backing to dump it in everyone's face, nor the corporate lawyers to ruin the lives of anyone who even looks at them funny.

    20. Re: Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A lot of art is extremely expensive. I don't think the wealthy are going to drop 100 million on a film or a video game.

    21. Re: Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great idea. Stop he one percenters by making OTHER one percenters in charge.

    22. Re:Uhh... by Jack_the_Tripper · · Score: 1

      Of course the best way is to abolish copyright altogether, and artists get paid for performing their work like the rest of us. Getting paid when a machine plays a recording is ludicrous!

      Hey Anonymous Coward, quick question. My brother is an author. How does he get paid for 'performing' his work?

      The same way Shakespeare did?

    23. Re: Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If you (or your brother, sister, lawn care specialist) wants to make a living writing a single book

      Who said anything about wanting to make a living off a single book?

      and expecting to make money from it for their entire life PLUS 70 years is absolutely fucking assinine.

      Yes, the current copyright term of author's life plus 70 years is idiotic. Abolishing the copyright term entirely (as the parent poster advocates) would be no less idiotic.

    24. Re:Uhh... by andymadigan · · Score: 1

      making a living off the arts is like winning the lottery.

      There's too much free/discounted stuff out there for the masses to want to pay top dollar for something that can be easily acquired for free.

      Just because there's free art out there doesn't mean that's why people aren't buying. I don't buy CDs or books because I find them inconvenient, but that doesn't mean I'm replacing them with something that's free. I don't buy paintings either, because I don't find them interesting. In fact, there's a lot of 'art' (be it a painting, book, film, photograph, song, poem, etc.) that gets produced that nobody finds interesting. The reason it's hard to make a living as an artist is the same reason it's hard to make a living as an actor - many people try, very few people are actually any good at it. I'd bet that more than 99% of the art that's produced each year couldn't be given away for free. Just because an artist likes their own work doesn't mean anyone else would be willing pay for it, no matter the condition of the market.

      --
      The right to protest the State is more sacred than the State.
    25. Re:Uhh... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      My brother is an author. How does he get paid for 'performing' his work?

      He could go to Kickstarter and post his ideas, and only write the actual work when the funding is provided. Many authors have done that. I have chipped in to fund a few books that I was interested in. All were eventually published (either on paper or PDF) and I was happy with the result.

    26. Re:Uhh... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      Hey Anonymous Coward, quick question. My brother is an author. How does he get paid for 'performing' his work?

      Does your brother expect to be making money from his writing 30 years after he's dead? Because Spotify is still paying royalties for works where absolutely everyone involved in the recording has been dead that long.

      If you reform copyrights, you'll have better, more plentiful music.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    27. Re: Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh well, I guess you gotta sell concert tickets then, and work for a living. Back to the trenches, all of you! Time for you to come back to earth. The days of *artist as king* are over.

      Considering the way corporations have treated artists for the last few decades, it's arguable that the artist hasn't been king for at least that long, despite appearances to the contrary.

    28. Re:Uhh... by dryeo · · Score: 2

      Another way is serialization. Release a chapter and then when certain funding goals are met, release another chapter. If it's a good book, the funding goal can increase with each chapter released. Authours used to do similar except releasing in a magazine or such.
      There's also things like book signings, release a limited amount of signed books, can even print up personalized copies.
      Personally I think it would be better to go back to the original 14+14 copyright term and make the authour make a token effort to copyright, perhaps 1 year automatic then a $10 registration fee. Very few works actually make money and even fewer make money for more then a decade. Good authours would still make money, the best just wouldn't be quite as filthy rich.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    29. Re:Uhh... by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Reality is they are all fucked. Too much old content preserved and available to compete against new content. For some reason the corporate delusion is people will continue to buy content like cheetos no matter how much content they already, think what the cheetos market would be if they could be recovered and reused infinitely.

      Sure like the sick adults they are, they can target minors for their pocket money, with new content, which the minors are fooled into believing they pathetic losers if they do not like it and buy it but even that is coming to a grinding halt. With the typical 'pop' artists being run down by the bulk of the possible music market, as being lame arse packaged pathetic exploiters of minors, be they a beiber or swift, just over hyped shite.

      So the over-hyped shite sales are now imploding and those egoistic lame arses put it down to piracy, rather than the reality of simply their shite music losing to better existing music no matter how much PR=B$ marketing they target specifically at children. Reality is awareness of bullshit marketing is done, reaching down to younger and younger ages and they are turning off the PR=BS messages pumping lame arses like beiber and swift. You can only sell iron pyrite as gold only as long as fools believe it is gold, once they are aware it is only fools gold, they simply stop buying and go on to hate those that scammed them. Especially if the ass hats egoistic publicly continue to demand more no matter how much they already have, not cool and a shite as their music.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    30. Re:Uhh... by polymeris · · Score: 1

      > 1. These "services" all offer an awful lot of service for free, but have to pay per song played.

      How come there is no free (pirate) P2P music streaming service, or at least no popular one? Build it on top of the existing torrent network or something similar so you don't have to start from scratch, add a distributed database so you know where each song is, and tada... is it that difficult?

    31. Re:Uhh... by mwvdlee · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah, nobody actually WRITES music, it's just people on stage singing whatever and playing random notes.

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    32. Re:Uhh... by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      then you make the real money with movie/TV adaptations.

      You mean plays, right? I mean; recordings of plays are like recordings of musical performances. In the words of GP: Getting paid when a machine plays a recording is ludicrous!

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    33. Re:Uhh... by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      If you reform copyrights, you'll have better, more plentiful music.

      And you'd have additional incentive for living artists to continue making new works, which is what copyright was intended for after all.

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    34. Re:Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, then you're a fucking moron who expects people who dedicate the hours necessary to write and create pretty much anything to do so and not need food, a house, or any other basic necessity.

      And you are a moron if you think that hard work is sufficient to get paid.
      I can grab a shovel and start moving a hill ten feet to to east. That will be a tremendous amount of work, but it's work that nobody wants done.

      If you need an assurance that you will get paid, find someone who is willing to pay before you put in the work and make sure not once, but twice that the work you do is the work they want done.

    35. Re:Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do i get payed for my creations? I don't get any kind of royalties and my art is run through thousands of times per second.

    36. Re: Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you work for free?
      I need someone to clean my toilet and your philosopy sounds right for the job.

    37. Re:Uhh... by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      Of course the best way is to abolish copyright altogether, and artists get paid for performing their work like the rest of us. Getting paid when a machine plays a recording is ludicrous!

      Hey Anonymous Coward, quick question. My brother is an author. How does he get paid for 'performing' his work?

      By selling books and writing new ones? Do you think he should be paid every time someone reads a chapter of it?

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    38. Re: Uhh... by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      The barrier to entry is basically zero. From bandcamp, to cd baby and tunecore, right now it's ridiculously easy to self publish. There is no barrier to self publishing. And we're still not making any money.

      There's a bit more to it than just publishing and recording.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    39. Re:Uhh... by bickerdyke · · Score: 2

      And what if he isn't a playwright?

      --
      bickerdyke
    40. Re:Uhh... by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Very few works actually make money and even fewer make money for more then a decade. Good authours would still make money, the best just wouldn't be quite as filthy rich.

      Aaaaahahahaha filthy rich authors! hee hee good joke!

      Uh

      you were joking, right?

      Very, very few authors are even wealthy, let alone filthy rich. You get the very occasional one like J.K. Rowling or inexplicably E. L. James, but for the vast majority of authors, even really good ones, writing is not a well paid profession.

      And if you're not one of the super famous ones already, book signings have a reputation of doing more or less diddly squat. I've wandered past quite a few book signings, seeing as I used to frequent a large bookshop in a town where such things are still popular. Mostly it was just an Author sitting alone in a chair surrounded pile of books, sometimes chatting to a staff member, mostly not. I ended up actually buying a book once as a result, but the royalties on one sale are not remotely worth it for half an hours work.

      The other things you list still only work once you've already made it, and markets like serialized fiction have more or less disappeared. I mean sure you can do it yourself, but that worked when printing was expensive, and there were few distributors relative to the amount being read.

      I mean I'm actually a proponent of reducing copyright too, but it's generally better to argue from a point of actually having some understanding of the industry if you want to convince anyone.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    41. Re:Uhh... by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      So instead of allow authors and alike to treat their job as "normal" as any regular job, they should throw themselves at the mercy of a handful of Gates and Bezos and pray their work isn't insulting or too critical for their royal highness.

      Well, yes, it worked for a while and got us the Sixtine Chapel and similar, but that's not really the independence any artist should be looking for.

      So the basic idea of making "art" a tradeable good so that a composer or author can live from selling his products like any potato farmer can is not a bad one at all. Well, until you add things like 70 years after death amd such stuff.

      --
      bickerdyke
    42. Re:Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People don't care how he get's paid. They just want free stuff. They would never work for free, but expect others too. Welcome to the new generation of moochers.

    43. Re: Uhh... by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      How about i clean your toilet once for free, and you keep paying me a royalty every time you use the toilet for the next 70 years?

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    44. Re:Uhh... by Gussington · · Score: 2

      The only way this can work is if the record labels - who own everything and do not have to pay themselves - offer a service.

      I don't get why Apple doesn't just buy the 4 major labels and be done with it. Seriously, Apple has more in spare change than the value of the entire music industry combined.

    45. Re:Uhh... by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      Hey Anonymous Coward, quick question. My brother is an author. How does he get paid for 'performing' his work?

      The same way artists through the ages have earned a living: Through the patronage of wealthy benefactors.

      For musicians, before recording, one way you made money was to charge for live performances. We are coming full circle. Musician who are talented make good money performing live. Recorded music is an advertisement, and cost a lot less to produce and distribute these days.

    46. Re:Uhh... by Ichijo · · Score: 1

      Well, then you're a...moron who expects people who dedicate the hours necessary to write and create pretty much anything to do so and not need food, a house, or any other basic necessity.

      You're making a good case for an unconditional basic income. Artists and entrepreneurs would be free to take risks that they can't take today with our almost nonexistent social safety net.

      --
      Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    47. Re:Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've been looking into this myself, and from what I can find out, to legally perform without having to pay some huge greedy corporation for the "privilege", you need to do both yourself.

      I am not likely to ever be one of the big names that make money off the Music Industry, so in my case, I need to work for money like everyone else.

    48. Re:Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course the best way is to abolish copyright altogether, and artists get paid for performing their work like the rest of us. Getting paid when a machine plays a recording is ludicrous!

      The interesting thing is that this is a tech site, with many commenters being software developers. Even though copyright is the same for software as it is for music, we don't get paid today for the code we wrote last year. We get paid for the time we work like everybody else.

      Note: Companies like Microsoft are the exception, not the rule. Most software is never sold, it's written for internal use.

    49. Re:Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Works so well for software companies like Valve.

    50. Re:Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So instead of allow authors and alike to treat their job as "normal" as any regular job

      How do I get to treat *my* job as "normal"? I want to get paid for the work I did last year too, why should I need to work this year?

    51. Re: Uhh... by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      The value of "art" is entirely arbitrary, there are many extremely wealthy people who are willing to spend millions on works of art and often do so and this is precisely why some works of art are so expensive. They would be entirely worthless if noone was willing to pay.

      On the other hand, production costs are over inflated by various groups demanding huge amounts because they can get away with it. There are many out of work actors who would work for close to minimum wage, which is a lot less than the millions demanded by the big names.

      Anyone can produce a movie effectively for free, as evidenced by the huge amount of home produced content on sites like youtube. Modern cameras are decent quality and widely available at affordable prices, video processing software is widely available for free.

      Sure experienced backstage people will achieve better results with the same tools, but in the grand scheme of things the studios pay these guys a pittance.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    52. Re:Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1. Nobody wants to be a seeder in a service where everybody is a leecher.
      2. Higher risk of getting caught when you're downloading (streaming) always.

    53. Re:Uhh... by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Yeah, nobody actually WRITES music, it's just people on stage singing whatever and playing random notes.

      Not really - it only sounds that way.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    54. Re:Uhh... by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Did you not read the comment that I replied to? His brother is an author, and he cannot get paid for performing his work. A musician can certainly get paid for performing his work. Unless you are arguing that he meant "music author", in which case - nice try.

      In a vain attempt to move the discussion forward, I think perhaps ending copyrights for non-commercial uses would give enough monopoly money to authors while ending the undue burden copyright places on the populace at large. Let the booksellers and Hollywood movie makers worry about copyrights and leave most of us out of it.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    55. Re:Uhh... by wardrich86 · · Score: 1

      Step 1: Run MIDI software in the background to convert keystrokes into MIDI instructions
      Step 2: Run VST to turn MIDI instructions into musical tones
      Step 3: ???
      Step 4: Profit

    56. Re: Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh, that's life of toilet cleaner plus 70 years, tyvm. #don'tcutmycut

    57. Re: Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If he Write music there are bands that peforme and those bands that dont Write their own and they need to but sombodys skill.

      If you Write boots Write a good one and hold next in series hostage. The next release will be when the sum of one million dollars are donated to this account.

    58. Re:Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In a world without copyright, Patreon or work for hire contracts. I currently support an author on Patreon, M. Kirin, who not only writes his own books but also creates YouTube videos explaining his writing processes and giving ideas to aspiring writers. One of my rewards is a "free" copy of his books, which I will have far more than paid for over the course of time it takes for him to actually write a book.

      Authors for music can still get paid to write the music for the band/singer and would simply not get royalties for every play of the song, which means they would write new lyrics for every new song if they want to continue getting paid. The singers themselves would have to tour and perform live to provide a unique service that a cover band wouldn't be able to provide. But that's just a ludicrous dream world, right?

    59. Re: Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most serialized books have horrible pacing because they are released in chunks that must have a fairly strict layout. They are rarely edited as a whole for consistency and if the author has a better idea later, well, the previous chapters are already published so there is no way to drop in the foreshadowing later to integrate the concept. I suppose this doesn't bother some readers, but for me it detracts from the experience when I see poor character development or half-written subplots started well into the story line.

    60. Re: Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not a valid comparison at all. If you buy a CD from me, you are free to play in perpetuity. If you want me to perform live, you have to pay me each time that you want that service. If you listen to a streaming music service, you are paying for that service each time it is used (under whatever terms you have accepted).

      I'm not defending the greedy and self-destructive antics of the RIAA and MPIAA and such with regards to endless copyright restriction and trying to sue anyone who even hums a song that they 'control'; I think they're evil and ultimately destroy creativity and artists of all stripes. But if you go see a movie, you pay for it. If you go see it again, you pay for it again.

    61. Re:Uhh... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Did you not read the comment that I replied to? His brother is an author, and he cannot get paid for performing his work. A musician can certainly get paid for performing his work.

      Do you actually believe a large number of performers write their own music? Man if you heard any of the original creators of many works sing you'll be booing them off the stage, not asking them to perform.

    62. Re: Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As an artist, my hobby costs me about $100 a year. It's not a killer amount and if I ever get paid I'll be thrilled but not saved by any stretch.

    63. Re: Uhh... by omnichad · · Score: 1

      willing to spend millions on works of art

      To display privately in their home. The benefit of them ending up in museums decades later is not very relevant.

      Movie production is not effectively free. Costs are inflated, but not as much as you describe. A cinema-quality camera is no less than $1k, sans lenses. Motion stabilization hardware is sometimes needed (not cheap either). Lighting requires much more than natural light. 1000W or more to light an average scene or you'll need an even more expensive camera to not have a grainy mess.

      The only free editing software worth anything is the commercial but free basic Resolve, and that won't continue to exist without commercial incentive for selling the full version. And even that doesn't have a lot to offer for effects or compositing. No open source video editor comes close on even basic features. I've tried them. Blender is actually great for rendering photorealistic 3D scenes and some effects, honestly, but you underestimate the cost of the hundreds of man-hours required for the rest of effects work, especially rotoscoping.

      Maybe I just have high standards, but i hate amateur produced video with poor production quality.

    64. Re:Uhh... by omnichad · · Score: 1

      You even quoted the OP and still missed the point. If copyright is abolished, why would anyone buy a book?

    65. Re:Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think you understand how publishing works...or how Publishers work....or how being an artist and copyright/publishing rights works. people like to be paid for their art, no matter how long ago they created it.

    66. Re:Uhh... by omnichad · · Score: 1

      And most writing isn't in books. Work done for hire isn't owned by you. False argument there. And if you're writing software for hire as an independent company, your contact should allow for code reuse in future projects (which lets you earn money again on previous work).

    67. Re: Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about recording engineers? How do they get paid? Should we just spend hundreds of thousands recording a record, and give it away for free? Oh no, it can all be done on a home computer now. So let's just forget about professional recordings.

    68. Re: Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you want to enjoy my work enough, you should pay for it. Not because you feel like being 'generous', but because this relationship is a two way street. I work hard to make novels, you participate by giving me money. That's a fair give and take.

      Consumers feel so entitled to other people's work now. It seems do ready to you doesn't it?

    69. Re: Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know that authors still make money selling books right? You choose to pirate other people's work (thus reducing the likelihood of future works), but not every one does.

      Instead of relying on people's kindness with a digital tip jar, how about relying on people's kindness to not pirate the book, and JUST BUY IT.

    70. Re: Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Just because you lack the imagination and foresight to see a viable way to earn a living from it doesn't mean that others are similarly handicapped. Please refrain from imposing your own shortsightedness and lack of historical awareness onto my society"

      Firstly, do you think that model might limit the type of works created? If most works of art were funded by the support wealthy?

      Secondly, you have no justification to be so smug. It's clear that you enjoy trying to appear superior on the internet. This is not conducive to a substantial discussion.

    71. Re:Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To read it, I assume.

    72. Re: Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only reason works of art command high values is because they are unique and can be validated in some way shape or form as "the origininal". This allows them to be used as currency/store of value. A wealthy individual can use an original piece of art as a store of value because it can't easily be conterfeited. The wealthy use this as currency that can be passed around. No one actually believe any piece of art is actually "worth" millions of dollars. A piece of art acts like a $10 million dollar bill. Nothing more.

    73. Re:Uhh... by peawormsworth · · Score: 1

      My brother is an author. How does he get paid for 'performing' his work?

      That performer purchased a copy of your brothers music. The listener like it so much that they go out and buy a copy so they can perform it themselves. Your brother makes money on the sale of the sheet music because the performance is just that good.

    74. Re: Uhh... by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure there will always be a commercial market for music. Think movies and, well, commercials. For that matter, I think people will still buy music and want to listen to the radio. I'm just suggesting that the law be changed to better match reality - most regular people are not very educated on copyright law, violate it on a regular basis, and are not particularly guided by it. Commercial users are different - they know the law, as they should since it is their business.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    75. Re:Uhh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ever heard of audio books? He can read his writing aloud. That's performance, right?

    76. Re:Uhh... by wertigon · · Score: 1

      Because Apple Corps (of Beatles fame) made sure that Apple Computer/Inc. could never ever launch their own record company. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --
      systemd is not an init system. It's a GNU replacement.
    77. Re:Uhh... by Gussington · · Score: 1

      Because Apple Corps (of Beatles fame) made sure that Apple Computer/Inc. could never ever launch their own record company. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      Um I think you've missed how this works. Apple buys the entire record industry, Apple Corps is part of that acquisition, so would own the trademark along with it.
      Apple can pay all the royalties it likes to itself.

    78. Re:Uhh... by wertigon · · Score: 1

      Apple could buy the major three no problems. Apple Corps, however, is NOT part of the major three. The question is, would THEY sell themselves to Apple Inc.? My guess is, most probably not.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --
      systemd is not an init system. It's a GNU replacement.
    79. Re: Uhh... by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Yet commercial users still screw it up all the time. Even people in the industry screw it up all the time.

      http://www.completemusicupdate...

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    80. Re: Uhh... by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Yes, that demonstrates just how insanely complicated it is (though the example you provide is actually pretty simple).

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    81. Re:Uhh... by Gussington · · Score: 1

      Apple could buy the major three no problems. Apple Corps, however, is NOT part of the major three. The question is, would THEY sell themselves to Apple Inc.? My guess is, most probably not.

      You think Sony, Universal, Warner and EMI want to sell either? Money has a funny way of changing people's standards
      It doesn't matter, Apple don't need Apple if the own the whole industry. Whether they own everyone except the Beatles as well is no biggie, they can call the new label Oranges to avoid trademark issues, and carry on with world domination.
      None of what you say stops Apple from doing what they want if it makes commercial sense.

  2. So is selling air. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's another thing I can get for free.

  3. So what? by DogDude · · Score: 1

    So what? Most dot-com businesses are losing tons of money these days. Most e-commerce is losing money hand over fist. It seems that investors are fine throwing money at unprofitable businesses for some reason.

    --
    I don't respond to AC's.
    1. Re:So what? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2

      By calling them dot-coms and using the phrase e-commerce, you sounds like a throwback to the 90s! On the other hand, it fits really well. So... yeah.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    2. Re:So what? by Touvan · · Score: 1

      Exactly this. Netflix, a similar business, had figured out they needed leverage, so they started to produce their own content to draw a user base. They use that to negotiate more favorable deals with content providers. Valve did the same with Steam (though they started with their own content out of the gate). Nintendo did the same ages ago, etc.

      1. Stop whining.
      2. Get a better vision and understanding of business and competition.
      3. Profit!

    3. Re:So what? by DogDude · · Score: 1

      Would my statement be any more or less true if I used the word "cloud"?

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    4. Re:So what? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Would my statement be any more or less true if I used the word "cloud"?

      Yes. Things are always more believable with the cloud. Ideally NoSQL in the cloud if you can manage it.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
  4. RIAA and MPAA shoot own foot by skaag · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Instead of working closely with the smaller companies to create a diverse and competitive market, their predatory (legal) and greedy (bad business) tactics caused the shutdown of many music startups, angering music lovers, and ultimately, they are shooting themselves in the foot because when only have Apple and Amazon to deal with, they will:

    1. Negotiate terms that leave the music industry with lower profits

    2. Eventually launch their own music labels, mimicking what Netflix did with Movies & TV series, to create further leverage

    --

    All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain... time... to... die...

    1. Re: RIAA and MPAA shoot own foot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who cares. Music is so easy to pirate, these services are for morons who enjoy throwing their money away.

    2. Re: RIAA and MPAA shoot own foot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Still you should support your fav artists! Like their videos on youtube and/or sub to their channels. And go to their concerts.

    3. Re: RIAA and MPAA shoot own foot by skaag · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I saw an interview very recently with one of the popular bands. The band's leader said they used to make no money at all from touring. Touring was done mostly to promote your music (and get in touch with your fan base, sleep with groupies, etc), and money was made primarily from record sales. Now, he says, they make most of their money from ticket sales during tours.

      --

      All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain... time... to... die...

    4. Re: RIAA and MPAA shoot own foot by skaag · · Score: 0

      Spoken like a true 16 year old script kiddie who is not yet making a stable income, and is spending his time playing PC games and coding Wordpress modules in PHP.

      --

      All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain... time... to... die...

    5. Re: RIAA and MPAA shoot own foot by jedidiah · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There are many reasons to have zero sympathy for the music industry. You don't have to be a kid to appreciate that the labels are ultimately reaping what they've sown.

      They really are the real thieves here.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    6. Re: RIAA and MPAA shoot own foot by lucm · · Score: 1

      Yeah unless they play in large venues, where the scalpers and concession owners are the ones making money since a shitload of seats are reserved for season pass or VIP box customers. Or in small venues, where the landlord/owner is the one making money with booze and food sales. And don't forget the people that inject themselves between the band and the venue, like those event app startups who take a cut for printing tickets and posting facebooks.

      What's left? Merch. And I'm surprised there's not yet a startup that tried to middle-man their way in that slice of the pie (besides square and other payment processors).

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    7. Re: RIAA and MPAA shoot own foot by skaag · · Score: 1

      Tell me about it. I just experienced this recently. I purchased tickets to a Kraftwerk event here in Los Angeles. I purchased the tickets almost two months ago, and the event is in September. Despite the huge amount of time between the purchase and the event itself (and this is Kraftwerk, an obscure German band, not something like Taylor Swift), we discovered most tickets have already been purchased by professional scalper companies.

      If Kraftwerk really wanted, they would hire a small management company and handle the whole thing themselves. They could sell the tickets directly and make significantly more money from their tour.

      But like you say, I'm pretty sure soon enough we'll see companies offer this type of service (TAAS - Tour As A Service) to bands around the world.

      --

      All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain... time... to... die...

    8. Re: RIAA and MPAA shoot own foot by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      Merchandise is gone too, it's a little music industry deal called a 360. The one where the musician is totally fucked.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    9. Re: RIAA and MPAA shoot own foot by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

      There are many reasons to have zero sympathy for the music industry. You don't have to be a kid to appreciate that the labels are ultimately reaping what they've sown.

      They really are the real thieves here.

      It would be impossible to launch an industry invigorating service like MTV, or VH1 today. Dunno whether the coke addled their brains somewhere along the line, but today's music industry leaders are worried about every play garnering money for the industry leaders.

      And it isn't working. It might have something to do with the requirements shifting from musical talent to pretty pretty, with autotune making everyone's voice sound the same, with ADHD hook ridden music, with scizophrenic lyrics that make 1970's disco lyrics sound like physics dissertations. And altogether too much of the music is so self similar that there isn't much purpose buying much of it.

      I've got very eclectic music tastes, and have always found examples of different genres that I enjoy, be it , Baroque, Viking death metal, hip hop, industrial, country, folk or prog rock, or Phillip Glass.

      I can't find any examples of this pop crap worth a shit.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    10. Re:RIAA and MPAA shoot own foot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's the free market.
      Where the corporate giants roam freely!

    11. Re: RIAA and MPAA shoot own foot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (and this is Kraftwerk, an obscure German band ...

      Huh!?! You have a strange definition of obscure.

    12. Re: RIAA and MPAA shoot own foot by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      It would be impossible to launch an industry invigorating service like MTV, or VH1 today.

      True, but it was only even possible back in the day because lots of British bands already had videos made for Top of the Pops sitting around doing nothing and were willing to let MTV use them for free at the time for advertising. The US record companies quickly got money out of MTV even when MTV became the 800 pound gorilla in the music industry. Unfortunately, an 800-pound gorilla in the music industry doesn't make as much money as the 300-pound gorilla in the reality TV show industry so it's doubtful that any industry invigorating service would be able to not degenerate into sometime much more shallow that makes a bit more money.

  5. Luckily music files are relatively small by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Easy to pirate, easy to store. No excuse for people to not already have a large personal music collection.

    1. Re:Luckily music files are relatively small by Calydor · · Score: 0

      No excuse for people to not already have a large personal music collection.

      Apart from most of what's been released in the past decade or two being the same rehashed theme - and crap.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    2. Re:Luckily music files are relatively small by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      That's just another reason to explain the difficulty companies are having at this whole idea of "selling music". Why buy the new stuff when you already have copies of the originals that the modern remakes are based off of?

      In any media format, you eventually get to the point where you've seen it all before and you would rather just consume the earlier works.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    3. Re:Luckily music files are relatively small by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Protip; the reason you hear classics from the 80s is because those were GOOD songs from that era, and all the trash was doomed to obscurity. In the 20s, people will say that 2000's music was better. Why? Because the good tracks will be remembered and the crap ones will be forgotten.

      You ask someone to name the top 10 Rock 'n' Roll songs, you will get lots of overlap, but the bottom 10 will be filled with stuff you have likely never heard on the radio.

    4. Re:Luckily music files are relatively small by ewhenn · · Score: 1

      You need to look harder.

      Here's something original that you likely never heard: https://youtu.be/AS6AA6Pe2lo?t...

    5. Re:Luckily music files are relatively small by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Try searching for 'Mr Methane' to get you started.

      Mister Methane stinks.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    6. Re:Luckily music files are relatively small by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Recently learned it's now Dr Methane. Bet someone gave him an honorary music doctorate.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    7. Re:Luckily music files are relatively small by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Recently learned it's now Dr Methane. Bet someone gave him an honorary music doctorate.

      And he has an album out! https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    8. Re:Luckily music files are relatively small by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You couldn't have picked a worst example if you tried. Blues guitar is the very definition of "Nothin' new under the sun"

  6. Pay for music? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1, Troll

    Seriously...pay for music?

    Why would I do that?

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    1. Re:Pay for music? by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because you want more to be created.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    2. Re:Pay for music? by suupaabaka · · Score: 2

      Seriously...pay for music?

      Why would I do that?

      I have a Google Play Music family account. This gives me, my partner, our siblings and one parent access to service for AUD$18 per month. It also gives all of us ad-free YouTube Red as part of the package.

      I work in a fairly relaxed office environment in which I'm allowed to listen to music over headphones. I also have a pretty eclectic taste in music, so I like to switch beats depending on my mood or what I'm working on. It also lets me discover new artists.

      So all in all, I think it's a fantastic service that's worth every cent.

    3. Re:Pay for music? by silas_moeckel · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So you realy dont know many musicians do ya? They are going to do their thing regardless.

      --
      No sir I dont like it.
    4. Re:Pay for music? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hope to steal your work someday.

      That is, if you work.

    5. Re:Pay for music? by HornWumpus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Mozart had to take on private students to pay his bills, so can Justin Bieber, if he can find any paying students.

      Musicians getting rich was a historical aberration caused by the technology of the day. They can all get day jobs and cover their beer with tips when playing at night for all I care.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    6. Re:Pay for music? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not really.
      More than enough music and movies already exist.
      I could happily listen to the same music for the next 60 years.
      Same for the movies.
      If someone decides to make more that's just a bonus.
      Artists have this entitlement where they think just because they made music they should get paid by someone.
      No other industry works like this.
      I don't pay the chef just because my friend ate at his restaurant and I recreated some dish he told me about.

    7. Re:Pay for music? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It also lets me discover new artists.

      Isn't that a bit like having your local supermarket charge you an entry fee just to come in a see what's on the shelves ?

      Personally, I found that whenever I used Spotify that I was mainly listening to music I'd already purchased, and very rarely used it to listen to new stuff, so it was a case of "Why the f*** should I pay again to listen to something I've already paid for".
        But I'd never buy an album through a streaming service, pricing a digital download the same (or sometimes more) as the physical CD is just a rip off.

    8. Re:Pay for music? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Unless you go in and delete all the artists copies of the song it's not stealing.
      If we had the technology to replicate any physical object without destroying it, would it be stealing if I make a copy of your car?
      Some asshole would probably make it against the law, but morally I don't see any objection to this.

    9. Re:Pay for music? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, they'll try. But 'doing your thing' around the constraints of a day job and 'doing your thing' as a professional artist will yield two very different results.

    10. Re:Pay for music? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      We've seen more than enough of the second...it sucks balls.

      Everything good in the last 30 years has been done by independent labels with bands full of people working day jobs.

      You can keep the Beiber.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    11. Re:Pay for music? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Professional artist does not necessarily equate to corporate-owned megastar.

      Independent labels do not necessarily equate to people working day jobs.

      You like indie label music? Guess what, there'd be more of it if those artists could devote more of their time to its creation.

    12. Re:Pay for music? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      fuck you, you ignorant self-centered moron troll.

    13. Re:Pay for music? by tverbeek · · Score: 1

      And if you don't want to support them, then you can listen to your dad's favorite music, for all they care.

      --
      http://alternatives.rzero.com/
    14. Re:Pay for music? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are correct. I love it how idiots like HornWumpus so casually dismiss the ability to be creative, log the hours necessary to develop that ability and (if a musician) hone, tour, and promote it. I am betting he/she listens to music every single day, but is utterly scornful of what it takes to actually make it as an independent artist.

    15. Re:Pay for music? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Creative types will create music no matter - it's an inner drive they have, not unlike what motivates a lot of contributions to free software. And people who enjoy playing will continue to play at the local pub/other venue because it's fun and increases one's chances of getting laid.

      Which leaves the bulk of commercial music. Can you tell me, with a straight face, that you would miss most of that forgettable, mass produced crap? Didn't think so.

    16. Re:Pay for music? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clue: people over the age of 35-40 don't much care if more music is created or not. Old cuban guys on Miami Beach still blast out Havana club music from the 1960s on their portable radios. "Classic Rock" station play the same 200 songs they have for the last 20 years. "Oldies" stations are starting to play music from the '70s and '80s, not the new stuff.

      In today's world, wealth is increasingly in the hands of the old - the music industry would do well to make a service like Pandora work, where they can extract $40 or 50 per year from the 100 million or so older households. If they're not interested in a couple of Billion dollars a year compensation for their 20+ year old music library, then screw 'em, we're mostly bright enough to figure out how to fit every song we ever cared about onto a $10 flash drive that we can play in virtually any device that has speakers - and if they start locking up the "normal" music players, a $30 RaspberryPi will play it - for a lot longer than one year.

    17. Re:Pay for music? by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      Kids have been listening to their Dad's favorite music, on car radios, ever since car radios were invented.

    18. Re:Pay for music? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Drive alone is not enough. You also need opportunity.

      Day jobs cut into that opportunity.

      Really, this shouldn't be a difficult concept for the /. crowd to comprehend. If a talented coder has more time to code, they're going to produce more / better quality output. Why would music be any different?

    19. Re:Pay for music? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No, you're not stealing the car "from" them, you're just capitalizing on the all the work that went in to designing it in the first place.

    20. Re:Pay for music? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I interviewed some bands back in the day of Napster. On the smaller end of things, a few of them (admittedly, not big acts) said that they saw more revenue from t-shirts and tickets at their live shows than the actual music. The music is an ad for the rest of their stuff. This isn't true for everybody, of course, but a small act selling 10,000 copies of a digital album online isn't going to be able to afford to eat. The music has to serve as just one part of a larger business - so more music may have to be created to continue adding to the business.

      See also: Weezer cruise. Selling music helps (I buy CDs and vinyl when I can) but unless you're a superstar, it's not enough. It's just a small part of the big pie, and you've got to really show up for the acts you love if you want more music to be created. The couple of bucks - or fraction thereof - each band member may get from an album sale won't necessarily keep them going.

      Streaming doesn't make a lick of sense. If big companies don't make money, and we know the artists aren't getting jack squat for it, then what? The Patreon model is really fascinating - keep a level of recurring money to keep stuff coming - and if the collectible aspect of physical media dies once and for all, that's probably where all of this is headed. Music's free, but you've got to put a dollar in the pot somewhere if you ever expect to see more.

    21. Re:Pay for music? by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      Seriously...pay for music?

      Why would I do that?

      Because the musicians had to pay around $250000 to record it. Most of them have been saddled with a massive debt to be able to get that music to you and at the end of the day, they won't have copyright or even possession of their own IP.

      Don't read this as support for the music industries business model, it isn't. You asked why you should pay, that's why. They have conditions that would make most programmers laugh and walk away.

      To give you an idea what it is like for a musician, imagine being told that to write a computer program you were told that to write code for something you wanted to do, you needed to take out a loan, you would have to code on something out of your control, you would not own the copyright and when it was complete, not only would you not have possession of the source code, you would have to pay the record industry back for your labor.

      With the 360 "deals" in music industry contracts more and more "innovation" in the music industry revolves around new and worse ways to screw recording musicians out of any remaining income streams they have. The image of success in the music industry is just that, an image.

      These deals find new ways to put musicians in debt for bringing you music you love to listen to. Concert tours, and merchandise were areas where a musician could make money and now the music mafia have closed in on them as well.

      If you listen to an mp3 more than 10 times - consider it advertising for their album and support them by buying it, because it has enhanced your life somehow and they might be able to make another album you like.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    22. Re:Pay for music? by dwywit · · Score: 2

      Because if you download a song (or torrent an album, or copy a friend's CD, whatever) to keep it and listen to it more than once, you have conceded that it has value to you.

      What's left is negotiation about the amount.

      Unless you think that artists *owe* you their efforts?

      --
      They sentenced me to twenty years of boredom
    23. Re:Pay for music? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes. And what reason is there for not doing so?

    24. Re:Pay for music? by mwvdlee · · Score: 2

      Who are those 9-to-5 day job indy artists you like so much?

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    25. Re:Pay for music? by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      I hope to steal your work someday.

      That is, if you work.

      Go right ahead, most people don't do the work once then expect to keep getting paid from it.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    26. Re:Pay for music? by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      To give you an idea what it is like for a musician, imagine being told that to write a computer program you were told that to write code for something you wanted to do, you needed to take out a loan, you would have to code on something out of your control, you would not own the copyright and when it was complete, not only would you not have possession of the source code, you would have to pay the record industry back for your labor.

      Yet for every one 'artist' that realises it's a massive con and rejects it there are a thousand more before behind ready to take the arm and all.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
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    27. Re:Pay for music? by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      Yet for every one 'artist' that realises it's a massive con and rejects it there are a thousand more before behind ready to take the arm and all.

      Sorry friend, I've read this about 10 times trying to understand what you mean and I am at a loss.

      It's irrelevant what the artists do, they are subject to the music industry model as it is. The larger issue being that the music industry quite happily subverts the rights of everyone so they are subservient to their property 'rights'.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    28. Re:Pay for music? by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      So you realy dont know many musicians do ya? They are going to do their thing regardless.

      No, they won't, not when they have to be realistic and realise that their passion will just put them into debt. Getting involved with the music industry is a path to poverty.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    29. Re:Pay for music? by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      It means for every band that rejects the industry there are a lot more behind that will sign without a second thought only to find them selves in the grinder afterwards. Of course it matters what the artists do. Without them the labels have no product. Ok, there's not much can be done now or about the stuff they already have but say for arguments sake new talent stopped signing and everyone self published. That would be a completely different landscape. Not saying it would be any better or worse but there's a chance the money might spread around a bit better. The labels used to be essential, now they're barely relevant but they keep pushing the same old model and resist change at every step.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    30. Re:Pay for music? by silas_moeckel · · Score: 1

      I never said they were rational and yes many of them will spend all their spare cash etc into the hobby.

      --
      No sir I dont like it.
    31. Re:Pay for music? by Gussington · · Score: 1

      And if you don't want to support them, then you can listen to your dad's favorite music, for all they care.

      I have friends in bands, they get paid next to nothing yet still do it because they love it. I'm pretty sure if millionaire musicians went away there would still be new music. In fact there would probably be better music because it would only be musicians doing, not fame-whores.

    32. Re:Pay for music? by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      I never said they were rational and yes many of them will spend all their spare cash etc into the hobby.

      How many musicians do you know?

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    33. Re:Pay for music? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have a Google Play Music family account. This gives me, my partner, our siblings and one parent access to service for AUD$18 per month.

      Whoah, that's several times the price of my CD collection (50 CDs since 1992).

      AUD$18 per month over 24 years is AUD$5184.

    34. Re:Pay for music? by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      It means for every band that rejects the industry there are a lot more behind that will sign without a second thought only to find them selves in the grinder afterwards.

      ok, so is that the justification not to pay for music?

      Of course it matters what the artists do. Without them the labels have no product.

      The labels have TV shows to manufacture artists so that they have more control. It pretty much guarantees you will get shit music.

      Ok, there's not much can be done now or about the stuff they already have but say for arguments sake new talent stopped signing and everyone self published. That would be a completely different landscape.

      That would be a completely different business model and more likely to attract better artists. Would you participate in a new model and buy music from artists that were self signed, so to speak?

      Let's say it was an app of some kind and you downloaded the app which contained the music - would you buy it if it was something you liked, even if it meant another app on your phone (for example)?

      Not saying it would be any better or worse but there's a chance the money might spread around a bit better. The labels used to be essential, now they're barely relevant but they keep pushing the same old model and resist change at every step.

      True that. Personally I think they are in the way of a lot of good, inspiring new acts coming out. As guardians of culture I think they have failed us and need to be gone.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    35. Re:Pay for music? by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      Just to be clear I wasn't advocating piracy or anything. Just the shit state of affairs in the 'biz'. Personally, I'm in the camp of I bought all my cds between ~15-25 when piracy was napster and that shit took two days to download a song that turned out to be lo-res porn if you were lucky. I collected my music, then kinda got bored with new stuff and now I just happily listen to the CDs I already have that are all converted (by me) to mp3. If I remember a blast from the past or notice I'm missing something I might get on the pirate bay to fill in the blanks. Actually a few months ago I noticed I was missing a couple e.p's I used to have, couldn't find them online because it was quite obscure, thought what the hell and checked amazon and there they were, 2nd hand for like 11p each or something stupid. Needless to say I found my originals not long after the replacements were delivered.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    36. Re:Pay for music? by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 1

      Google Play is garbage. I installed it on four different devices and no matter which network I'm on, I've never seen it finish loading a song and actually play it.

    37. Re:Pay for music? by omnichad · · Score: 1

      People aren't buying albums anymore as a general rule - regardless of what you or I think.

    38. Re:Pay for music? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Never at the 'record store'. But at live shows, absolutely.

      Often opening acts.

      It all gets ripped and shared.

      On the other hand what can you say about acts like 'Finntroll'. Without the net, they likely wouldn't exist. I certainly wouldn't be able to buy their CDs. I don't feel guilty downloading a discography, I likely listen to 5%. If they ever make it to CA they'll have an audience.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    39. Re:Pay for music? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      I am advocating piracy. The music industry has made a business of generally not paying acts, while giving the 0.00001% of acts most willing to slob music industry knob a lottery win.

      But do pay for music direct from your local musician.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    40. Re:Pay for music? by silas_moeckel · · Score: 1

      A fair amount more than a hundred. Record sales have not been where they make there money it's performances tshirts and the like.

      --
      No sir I dont like it.
    41. Re:Pay for music? by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      How many of them are performing artists, on stage or in bands that perform? How many of them have recorded and attempted to distribute their work and have you bought any of it?

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    42. Re:Pay for music? by silas_moeckel · · Score: 1

      50-60 of them perform regularly about half of that is their primary means of income. All of them have recorded their work and sold it (helped with the technical end more than a few times). Have not bought any of it in a couple decades. I am far more likely to buy an overpriced tshirt or other swag, pay to get into the venue tip etc. Recordings have nearly no value, hells most artists have their bests works available for free anyways via various platforms.

      --
      No sir I dont like it.
  7. Pirate the music by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're not stealing from the artists; the recording labels will steal it anyway. Seriously; the music and movie cartels are thieves, and you're not "stealing" anything from the artists by pirating music. Now, I will encourage you to buy music directly from unsigned local artists, as they actually get paid for their CD sales.

  8. Who would have thought? by kamapuaa · · Score: 1

    That business where Pandora lets people stream music for free isn't making much money? Holy crap!

    --
    Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
    1. Re:Who would have thought? by whoever57 · · Score: 1

      That business where Pandora lets people stream music for free isn't making much money? Holy crap!

      Remember that business where companies stream video programming over the airwaves ... It seems to be doing OK.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    2. Re:Who would have thought? by fredgiblet · · Score: 1

      It's paid for by a robust advertising network. Same for radio. Pandora doesn't have that.

    3. Re:Who would have thought? by whoever57 · · Score: 1

      Pandora doesn't have that.

      Pandora has 2 options: 1. Paid subscription, 2. Ad supported.

      So, yes, Pandora does have ads.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
  9. What's so terrible about Bandcamp? by Lord+Crc · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What's so terrible about Bandcamp (which is the digital music service I love)?

    They seem to be doing pretty good, they're growing as well as being profitable.

    Best part (IMO) is that they also have lots of artists saying they appreciate Bandcamp. Here are some comments from that blog post:

    Bandcamp is the greatest platform for independent artists. I am glad to be a part of it, without it getting new fans would be difficult.

    We release small independent music compilations since three years here on BC. We worked together with more than 200 artists in these years. The most of them publish their music on BC too. I can confirm: More people buy the music on BC. That is what the musicians say in talks. And even our pay what you want releases have a really good perfomance.

    I've bought a lot of really great music on Bandcamp, the artists like it. So yeah, what's so terrible again?

    1. Re:What's so terrible about Bandcamp? by Velimir · · Score: 1

      Completely agree, I love Bandcamp and it feels really connected to the artists. There's been 2 times now where I've found a new artist through something like Pandora and then bought their discography through Bandcamp and had them email me personally thanking me!

    2. Re:What's so terrible about Bandcamp? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You already know the answer to this. Bandcamp has none of the artists that most people care about.

    3. Re:What's so terrible about Bandcamp? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The secret of Bandcamp: no DRM, any format you want, no account necessary (!), no RIAA.

    4. Re:What's so terrible about Bandcamp? by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      And the money goes straight to the artists, minus a straight percentage cut for Bandcamp. Very transparent, no odd rip-off clauses and greedy record companies involved.

      --
      Eat the rich.
  10. It is what they always wanted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I get that artists have very bad deals with how much a take they get. And that with people spending less to owe music and embracing more and more the use of streaming services, so that they can listen to what they want where and when want at a reasonable fee is more fun tailored to them, then music radio stations. I may prefer to owe my own music and stream it to my devices myself or use cloud storage lockers for backup and less data usage on my home net connection, but maybe artists could make up for loss album sales by partnering with services to offer extra content that people buy as a "in-app purchase" like concert recordings, rare music, no longer in print music, and more. There are many artists already sort of doing this through patron services; for instance Amanda Palmer seems to be doing really well with people giving just a dollar or more a month and in return get a new song, a new ep, or something else that is creative in return. Unfortunately, most artists would need to make deals with their labels in order to any of this, despite many having fan club subscriptions.

    Music streaming is merely Net Radio that people can control, yet the music industry lobbied for the much higher per-play fees to either stop it from becoming viable or out of greed. Now that is so widely used by all ages, better measures listener volume, gives people what they want, while so few people use the radio compared to say 10 years ago artist and the like are claiming it is not enough money and prices need to be raised. How about letting business's like shops, restaurants, bars, hotels, offices, etc get broadcast license so they can legally use those services and make it easy? Most mom and pop places seem to use Pandora, yet no one seems to know you have to opt for a special box for your speakers to make use legal and the only other legal service that is easy to find is HotelRadio which can be laggy at times. If you contact Apple about their Streaming Service, Spotify, Google, and so many others all say "We do not offer nor plan to provide a service tier for businesses!" Pandora does it in a pain the butt way through a 3rd party deal. For whatever the reason why no one seems to offer a good method, I would think most companies would be willing and happy to pay $100 six month or yearly subscription to legally offer music at to customers and staff. Services could geo-locate a place and stop working until the account is paying for the business license. Most people that own small businesses and even large ones eyes glaze over if you tell them can't play music without a license or could face large fines.

    Just saying their could be far more money to be made without effecting the basic consumer and killing services. And, the per play fees do need to drop. Why should a estimate of listeners cost per play be set so less for radio, while actual backed up numbers fees are so much higher for streaming? If anything radio and net streaming fees rates need to swap.

  11. The real solution by t1oracle · · Score: 1

    Stop buying music from companies that charge rediculous licensing fees. Taylor Swift has no more talent than the talented girl next door. Go fund indie music. It's more free, you're supporting the little guy/gal, and the talent is just as good even if the production quality isn't.

    1. Re: The real solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yeah about that: I've worked at companies with millions of indie tracks. No one listened to them. Our top tracks mirrored the top 100, and all the cool indie stuff? Not even a blip.

    2. Re:The real solution by dwywit · · Score: 2

      I think the finance managers at the streaming services should re-think their strategies. Putting aside free, ad-supported playback for the moment, they seemed to think that $10 or $12 per month was a "sweet spot" - the point at which consumers were happy to pay, without frightening them off to a cheaper service. It seems obvious that wasn't enough to cope with the licencing/royalties set by the CRB.

      I was a Live365 subscriber, listening to stations that *weren't* full of material by well-known artists - I like exploring music that I haven't heard before. When they emailed me late last year to say they were closing down (mainly because of a royalty rate rise that small stations couldn't afford), I told them I'd be happy to pay more. They mustn't have thought it was a viable option to survey their subscribers about raising subscription rates, because they proceeded to shut down.

      Yes, $10/month *sounds* nice, but it's not very much for such a lot of choice, and now those artists who were getting *some* income from Live365 stations are getting *no* income from those stations. I was paying even less - about about USD$70/year - I was happy to pay double that to continue listening to music that I enjoyed, but noooooo, we couldn't possibly consider charging more.

      --
      They sentenced me to twenty years of boredom
    3. Re:The real solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You don't understand. If they start charging their subscribers more, the media companies will also increase their license fees and the company will have the same issue but with less profit for itself (fewer subscribers) and more profit for the media companies (their only expense is negotiating the contract). I don't understand why they want all streaming companies to die, but they are purposely killing them. Considering this drives more people to pirating, I'm even more confused. Maybe they make more money letting everyone pirate their IP and then getting money from copyright infringement settlement letters than they do 'selling' the same content.

    4. Re: The real solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll just listen to and buy what I want. It's not a political statement.

    5. Re:The real solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't understand why they want all streaming companies to die, but they are purposely killing them

      There are a number of reasons why this is the case. To touch on but a few briefly...

      • Lack of understanding - companies in this industry Do Not Get the Internet. And frankly they don't want to. Many are too old, many are too wed to their old profit-making ways, and a few visionaries see it as a way to amplify their profits, regardless of the toll it takes on the consumer.
      • Control - major content providers of all types are built on control of a work. Accordingly they want to increase control to the maximum extent, and continue to do so. This is why there is DRM in everything and why they're bent on turning the DMCA into even more of an abomination than it already is, as well as try to smash SOPA and its ilk down our throats. This extends to major manufacturers of other things, such as car companies who want to prevent resale of cars due to "license agreements" regarding the software in the car's main computer.
      • The Sinking Ship - I think this is most prevalent in academia in particular. Academic journals are usually handled by providers that handle large amounts them and charge ridiculous rates for access. It's even more ridiculous if you're not independently wealthy - most people can't afford to buy a paper for $25 to get 24 hours access. This has made them utterly hated by EVERYONE involved in the production of the work, from the academics to the students to the universities. Seeing the writing on the wall, they're trying to screw every last cent they can out of everyone they can before they lose all control over the situation. They hope that they can also somehow use this to usher in a new era of ridiculously draconian control and pricing to match, but they also realize this is unlikely and as such are attempting to get while the getting's good.

      There are many other reasons, of course, but these are the ones that come readily off the top of my head. Usually it's a mixture of greed, stupid, and fear - and the first two of those creates a situation wherein they have a lot to be afraid of.

    6. Re:The real solution by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      The problem for a lot of these services is that their audience is young and doesn't have much money, but does have lots of time and lots of alternatives.

      I'd love to know how subscription charges compare to ad revenue. Commercial radio stations obviously make ad revenue work for them, while offering much less choice.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  12. spread the blame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, the RIAA is an ass, but so are most music consumers who mindlessly buy into the big-dollar/nose-candy-fueled publicity of big labels. A multitude of amazing indy artists would gladly reasonably license their work but the sheeple kiss RIAA ass and only listen to expensively advertised big names.

  13. Labels FIND artists, PRODUCE quality sound, PROMOT by raymorris · · Score: 2

    There are more unsigned artists than there are artists signed to record labels. A great many, probably most, artists stream their stuff for free. MySpace is no longer a general social networking site, it's a million bands giving away their"music free or almost free.

    Since most music is not made by record labels, why do people seek out the music produced by labels? Apparently there is something of value there, Maroon 5, Justin Bieber etc have many more fans than Leannasaurus Rex. Why do people want the music produced by labels? What's the extra value vs independent artists and small labels?

    Labels do three things that I can think of:

    1) They filter, they "discover" good artists. On Myspace you can find plenty of bad indepedents before you find a good one.

    2) They hire the top engineers and producers and build multi-million dollar studios to produce the sound that people like to listen to. Independent artists may not even know what a compander IS.

    3) They promote the professionally produced recordings featuring the selected artists. In other words, they let you know "hey here's another good country/hip hop/pop singer you might like".

    Most people don't choose any of the hundreds of thousands of independent artists. Instead they prefer to choose among the dozen or so that the labels are offering that week.

    Personally I don't choose either for my own listening. I listen to informative recordings. Sometimes I DJ weddingsband other parties. When I do, I choose music from record labels because of #3 - people at partiew want to hear the same music they've heard before, the music promoted by labels.

  14. There's two terms to the equation by DerekLyons · · Score: 3, Interesting

    When examining whether a business is, or can become, profitable - you can't just look at expenses. You have to look at the income side too.

    The submitter, and the linked articles, signally fail to do so.

    1. Re:There's two terms to the equation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Classic case of the producer overvaluing the product, and the consumer not valuing it at all.
      I think many if not most people probably think that music should be almost free.
      Cents per song instead of dollars.
      Meanwhile artists and studios think they should be making millions.
      What's wrong with making $5000 per month instead of a million?
      It doesn't even matter if this is the case or not.
      What matters is the perception most people have.
      If artists want to change something they should just stop producing music and see if anyone cares, or notices.
      I think they will be disappointed to find out how little people actually care about their music.

    2. Re:There's two terms to the equation by Kjella · · Score: 2

      When examining whether a business is, or can become, profitable - you can't just look at expenses. You have to look at the income side too. The submitter, and the linked articles, signally fail to do so.

      With physical goods the price will rise with general costs to maintain a margin because consumers have to buy their groceries somewhere. For digital music consumers could always go back to piracy, I'm pretty sure the digital music companies have already found the sweet spot for what people will pay for convenience.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    3. Re:There's two terms to the equation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the best way to tie all of this is to look at the business model as a whole and figure out whether it can be sustained long term. By definition, startups are companies that are seeking to establish business models, so the fact that 150 of them are buried is not a surprise.

  15. Re:Labels FIND artists, PRODUCE quality sound, PRO by HornWumpus · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Should have warned us at the beginning of your post that you were a DJ.

    Would have saved us a lot of reading.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  16. Um... muscians have always been screwed by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    and they industry has always been awful except for a few people at the very, very top. This is new how? Outside of socialism and basic income I don't see a way around this. It's like anything where you've got people who do it because they love it. You can pay them a lot less than their actually generating.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  17. RIP live365 by Snotnose · · Score: 1

    Subscribed for years, they died a few months ago. Odd thing was, my favorite channels were the old radio dramas from the 30s and 40s, and the attempts to revive the form in recent years.

    Had a couple prog rock channels I'd listen to as well, but the old time radio seemed to be my go to thing.

  18. SomaFM.com by ChesterRafoon · · Score: 1

    Rusty Hodge has been running SomaFM.com for years just on donations. Someone should interview him - he seems to have it figured out. If you haven't given SomaFM a try you should - and donate a couple of bucks if you do.

    1. Re:SomaFM.com by bigfinger76 · · Score: 1

      Amen. I absolutely adore SomaFM, especially Groove Salad at night. Properly executed Internet radio.

  19. huh?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    bittorrent you say?

  20. Re:blind spot by dgatwood · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No, IMO, the problem is that there are too many middlemen. The Internet service takes its cut, followed the the performing rights organization (e.g. ASCAP, BMI, or SESAC), the publisher takes at least half of what is left (and probably more), and the tiny crumbs that remain get divided between all the composers and lyricists. The artist probably gets nothing unless he/she is a singer-songwriter or there's some other specific arrangement with the publisher. Either way, the more middlemen you have leeching off your music, the less you'll make from it.

    --

    Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

  21. Posting to undo wrong mod by khchung · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Posting to undo a mis-clicked mod.

    --
    Oliver.
  22. They own the content by ajyand · · Score: 1

    The content belongs to the artists and the publishers. Let them decide whom to deal with and on what terms. If they don't like startups, probably they are not okay with smaller cuts. They have full freedom to decide who to deal with and who to avoid.

    ------
    Support freemusicarchive.

    1. Re:They own the content by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      The content belongs to the artists and the publishers.

      That is a very rare circumstance. Most of the time the publishing rights and the 'content' (or IP being the pre-produced stems of the recordings) belong to the record company who paid the artists and advance.

      It's the shittest business model ever - where the record industry rips off the artists who created the music and then treats the fans like theives. The entire music industry is on the verge of collapse and all it can do is get worse.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
  23. Re:Labels FIND artists, PRODUCE quality sound, PRO by silas_moeckel · · Score: 0

    Myspace realy somebody still goes to myspace? The costs of distributing music is close to nothing.

    Multimillion dollar studios, not sure what decade you're living in. Do you still think a modern audio engineer is doing the final mix via a big board in real time? You do relize DJing is absolutely nothing like a real recording studio?

    Mass market music exists, it's neither good nor something we need to insure is protected. If they can make money at it they will and frankly thats more an example of how you can use marketing to sell crap than promoting good music.

    --
    No sir I dont like it.
  24. Precisely true by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's precisely this dynamic of businesses having enough capital to operate in the environment that leads to a regulated environment for competition. Or it leads to a single point of failure.

  25. Arbitrage by evilviper · · Score: 2

    Introducing the EvilViper Streaming Music Service.

    Front-end looks just like Pandora/iHeartRadio/etc. But on the back-end, it searches all the MP3s on your device to see if you already locally have the song it was going to play. If so, file is played locally, not streamed. No bandwidth is used, and no royalties need to be paid. Customers appreciate the superior sound quality, less cellular data usage, and fewer pauses between songs.

    In addition, when you like/thumbs-up a song, in the background it is PURCHASED as an MP3 from Amazon or similar. You don't notice the purchase, but you now own the song. Repeated plays cost nothing. If your device is reset, or you use the music service on a different device, the songs you purchased are first downloaded from Amazon and playback resumes.

    The EvilViper Streaming Music Service will also make deals with smaller and independent artists and labels. Those who offer the cheapest terms will see their songs featured more prominently, and repeated more often (until/unless customers vote not to hear them again), at the expense of a little less big-name music, for a big savings.

    --
    Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    1. Re:Arbitrage by dwywit · · Score: 1

      Sign me up!

      --
      They sentenced me to twenty years of boredom
    2. Re:Arbitrage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So it's spying on your local music collection and also silently making purchases from Amazon in the background ?

      No thanks.

    3. Re:Arbitrage by Baron_Yam · · Score: 1

      IF:

      * the app had configurable limits for local storage and purchases

      * it started with non-RIAA artists only (yes, painful, but worth it in the long run if you survive)

      * it had a rating system with novelty, similarity, and unique user request frequency per day

      * it cut out Amazon - have your own secured cloud service

      * you charge for a resync (it's only fair, to cover your storage and bandwidth costs), keep the cost low but still profitable. Bandwidth and storage aren't that expensive.

      THEN I think you could have a winner. An industry-toppling winner, actually... if you managed to make it work at all. I expect at first you'd try and be the go-to distribution method for tiny little bands just starting up and it'd be difficult to get new listeners when most people just want the pop top 30.

      Still, it's important to cut out the RIAA and entities like Amazon right from the start or they will take all the profits while you starve and fail.

    4. Re:Arbitrage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm going to agree with most of what you said but not start without RIAA artists. One your using politics to upset your audience who probably won't get it the reason. Oh, you don't have Favorite Big Name in music. DELETE! Two, how are you going to get enough people when the big names in music aren't covered?? Start with the RIAA artists but work hard to expose their fans to new non-riaa music that they'll like! Which they seam to be doing. If you grow big you'll be able to stick it to the RIAA but don't fight Goliath without a sling!

  26. Re:Labels FIND artists, PRODUCE quality sound, PRO by jedidiah · · Score: 0

    Some of the best, most classic music, was produced with nothing more than a microphone and a tape recorder. When you have real musicians, that's all you really need. The rest is just fluff that adds little to the end result. The labels don't care because they push all costs off on the musician. They have no interest in being efficient or being the adult in the room.

    So the recording industry became a dinosaur much like the Detroit auto makers.

    --
    A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  27. My music service is still there by Skapare · · Score: 1

    ... and still run by the founder. Magnatune ... I love it and have gigabytes of their music, much of which is regularly played..

    --
    now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  28. Re:blind spot by jedidiah · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...and a lot of that music was distributed for free.

    Free distribution of media has pretty much existed since the beginning of time for the sake of this discussion. Commercial supported content began about a week after the first radio station went on the air.

    There are bands that I have enjoyed for years without pirating or paying one red cent. That's because "free music" is in fact nothing new. The only reason that Pandora is having a hard time is that the music industry decided to be leeches this time rather than paying to promote artists.

    This whole getting paid versus paying makes a big difference.

    --
    A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  29. For some reason that reminds of by raymorris · · Score: 1

    I wonder if you have an idea why approximately nobody (well under 1% of listeners) prefer that great music recorded with nothing but a tape recorder, with no post-production work? Virtually everyone inside buys or unlawfully aquires the heavily produced studio work.

    Anyway, your comment reminded me of "Million Dollar Quartet". Itcs a raw recording from the famous Sun studios with no production work. The artists are Elvis Presley, Jerry Lee Lewis, Carl Perkins, and Johnny Cash . If you like raw recordings, that's definitely one to check out.

  30. Re:blind spot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "...the average payment to an artist from the label portion of that is $0.001128, this being what a signed artist receives after the label's share..."

    http://thenextweb.com/apple/20...

  31. Re:blind spot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > The Internet service takes its cut, followed the the performing rights organization (e.g. ASCAP, BMI, or SESAC), the publisher takes at least half of what is left (and probably more), and the tiny crumbs that remain get divided between all the composers and lyricists.

    You have this slightly out of order. It should be:

    ACAP/BMI/SESAC and the publishers take their cut (which is ~90% of the proceeds from the play), the internet service (eg Pandora) takes its cut, and the remainder is divided up between the composers, performers, and lyricists.

    The Internet Streamers get fuckall, but the folks who actually did the work get even less. You're absolutely spot on about removing middle-men, though.

  32. F**k Rhapsody by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I just came here to say: FUCK Rhapsody. Their shitty code ate up and FUBARed a dual boot machine about 18 years ago. Never again. Die in a fire. Bitches.

  33. Wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are competitors to Spotify?

  34. Never heard of authors doing readings? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    if nobody wants to pay to see him in person then maybe his books aren't very good.

  35. Just change the model to match the money coming in by Cafe+Alpha · · Score: 2

    I've said this all along.
    Say Spotify gets $10 a month from you, they take $5 for themselves and their expenses then they just divide the other $5 up evenly between whatever artists you listened to weighted by number of songs and time. Don't "pay per play" instead "pay what's available". If you only listened to one artist in that month, that artist would get all $5, even if you listened to only one song.

    Then Spotify is simply guaranteed $5 a month, and royalty fees take care of themselves.

  36. Poor business model by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They don't make the free stuff more restrictive nudging users to the pay subscription. The problem today is people want content but don't want to pay, they don't want ads, don't want to be tracked, or personal info used for ad targeting. If any of these services are to survive, they must reduce free services, and expand paid ones. You also must except that maybe offering a cheaper paid listen only is a better option for some.

  37. Easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Book readings

  38. you whippersnappers and your newfangled "MySpace" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Geocities for life!

  39. The service I would pay for by rcharbon · · Score: 2

    As an older guy with hundreds of records and CDs who wants to keep building my own library of digital music but doesn't have to pay for songs I don't like to get the ones I want (figure it out), I'd be interested in a service where I pay a minor subscription fee ($10-25/year) for the right to stream an album or two at a time, so I can check out new music that interests me. Then pay maybe 99 cents per song for a decent DRM-free MP3 download for the songs I like and want to keep. A FLAC download for the snobs could cost a bit more per song.

    I don't want to pay the larger monthly fees for today's streaming services because most of the time I listen to the thousands of songs I already have. I just want to be able to evaluate new music in a convenient and affordable fashion, and pay a reasonable price for what I want to keep.

    Why stream albums instead of mixes like what we have now from Spotify and the like? Because that's how I evaluate music. Again, older guy. No reason the service couldn't do both, but I want the chance to hear everything from artists I'm interested in, not just the hit(s).

    This makes sense for those of us who already have a music library, who were conditioned to the idea by the need to buy stuff if you didn't want to be at the mercy of local radio programmers. We've always been a minority, but we're the minority that invests time and money into the industry, so we would seem to be worth catering to. Does it make sense for the potential market of younger collectors with different habits shaped by torrents and streaming services instead of radio and record stores? I think so, but doubt the industry will ever get it together enough to let us find out.

    1. Re:The service I would pay for by c120plus · · Score: 1

      I have the same problem, I can't justifiy paying €120/year for spotify premium, because I should listen to my own collection. Of course, if you just want to check out songs, the free, ad-financed version of Spotify should do fine. You can google open.spotify for links of albums you want to check out and then play them in full, with 2-3 ads in between. I'm enjoying it while I write this: I'm checking out a few albums of a band I'll see live in two weeks...

    2. Re:The service I would pay for by macs4all · · Score: 1

      As an older guy with hundreds of records and CDs who wants to keep building my own library of digital music but doesn't have to pay for songs I don't like to get the ones I want (figure it out), I'd be interested in a service where I pay a minor subscription fee ($10-25/year) for the right to stream an album or two at a time, so I can check out new music that interests me. Then pay maybe 99 cents per song for a decent DRM-free MP3 download for the songs I like and want to keep. A FLAC download for the snobs could cost a bit more per song.

      I don't want to pay the larger monthly fees for today's streaming services because most of the time I listen to the thousands of songs I already have. I just want to be able to evaluate new music in a convenient and affordable fashion, and pay a reasonable price for what I want to keep.

      Other than the fact that it is $10/mo, that's exactly how I use Apple Music.

      I'm an old guy too, with tens of thousands of songs already ripped from my CD collection (never got around to ripping all my vinyl). I use Apple Music for two things:

      1. As a jukebox while at work. Don't have to mess with iTunes Match, but I don't listen to the "Stations". Instead, I just do a search for what I want to listen to (generally entire albums, and generally Prog), and off it goes...

      2. As a "Audition/Trial" Service. If I find that I keep streaming an album (or song) repeatedly (like I recently have with Steven Wilson's most-excellent album "Hand. Cannot. Erase."), then I generally purchase it (because I'm an old guy, and like physical things). I generally don't purchase the iTunes version (no physical thing) if it's an album, but I do if it's just a particular song or two.

      It might not be the #1 most cost-effective way to use streaming; but at least I don't have buyer's remorse when I purchase an album that I've only heard a song or two from, only to find out the rest of the album is "filler material".

      So, given iTunes' VAST collection, I believe mine is a use-case that somewhat matches what you wanted to use Streaming for.

  40. Quo vadis, world? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't know about you guys but I'm starting to have enough of all those big and all-powerful companies and their copyright/patent claims. All they want is money for themselves and no one else. Anyone who stands in between them and their goal has absolutely nothing to say and no chance to defend himself with a cheap lawyer one can only hope to afford.

    And they are all equally malicious: music industry, insurance companies, big brands telling us that we can't get away without using their services tricking us into long-lasting contracts and unwanted purchases.

    I hope that one day I can quit my job and go live in a desolate part of the world where the tentacles of big corpos do not reach and where I can drink wine, hook up with women and play bass until the end of my days.

    But that will be no sooner than I hack the hell out of corpos, wipe their backups clean and watch them go under. Then my life will be fulfilled.

  41. Anyone surprised? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can't and you shouldn't monetize everything. The record labels are doing nothing but holding everyone back / down. With modern infrastructure, everything a band should need is a capable manager.

    I don't know how American system works, but here in Europe, all the money (even the money that should belong to artists that are already dead) goes to some "organization", that further distributes the money among members of the organization, the music copyright owners.

    It's an outdated system that doesn't allow for competition. The only measurement of success (how much money from the "common fund" you receive) is how many times your song is played on national radio. It's just as stupid as it sounds, it's not natural and shouldn't be considered acceptable.

    There is no money in selling digital music. Sell T-shirts and concerts instead.

  42. Re:Labels FIND artists, PRODUCE quality sound, PRO by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

    Since most music is not made by record labels, why do people seek out the music produced by labels? Apparently there is something of value there,

    Time largely. I don't have all day to research out music that I would like to hear. So for years, we trusted that the major labels would sift through the dross and bring to us good music.

    But this is no longer true. Modern Pop music is pretty people who may or may not be able to sing. Dancing is more important to pop music today than music. Coupled with ADHD hooks and psychotic lyrics, it's obvious that the trust is broken. And this trend of marketing to 12 year olds, either in age or intellect, has gone on much longer than trends in music usually do.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  43. Rights by DarthVain · · Score: 1

    This whole problem could be boiled down to the fact that Corporations are allowed to own the "rights" to Copyright. It is fabulously profitable. They lobby for it. Artists want to keep it, because they can get a big payday. Corporations transfer rights to other corporations...

    This would all be solved by either caps on the term of copyright to something reasonable, say 10 or 20 years, or by simply not allowing a corporation to hold rights to copyright. If they want to sell your song, they pay a human to do so, etc... Rights are non-transferable. i.e. they die with you. Though hopefully that doesn't spawn a whole bunch of artist assassins...

    You right though, copyright currently is doing exact the opposite of its intended purpose. The purpose is to provide some control over work to artists to make money to encourage them to make more art. Now, why bother, hit your payday and retire for the next 150 years or so.

    1. Re:Rights by omnichad · · Score: 1

      simply not allowing a corporation to hold rights to copyright.

      And there was never a good movie ever made again. Nor commercial OS or software. No financial incentive to create anything beyond the scope of one man.

    2. Re: Rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then you end up with publishers and unable to offer authors advances as they can't offset that, and the associated risk of a work failing against revenue. So then authors would either need to get loans (unlikely to work when relatively new), be wealthy, work a day job, a patron, or via subscription and serialisation (cf. Dickens).

      In many instances authors do have a day job for their first novel, album, or whatever, but it could restrict output to a lower level if that's the main way to keep feeding yourself unless you have a blockbuster. Maybe it might be better or worse than now as authors might then oy publish when they had something good rather than that difficult contractually obliged fifth album.

    3. Re: Rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Copyright is, therefore, a drug. We have traded "high quality" for freedom and true creativity.

    4. Re:Rights by DarthVain · · Score: 1

      We're talking in context of music. However as mentioned limiting the term is the other route. You think they are not going to make the next Deadpool because they might not have the copyright after 75 or 125 years? It made like half a billion dollars in a week. Cry me a river. Never mind the whole Hollywood accounting BS that goes on to justify it all.

  44. Weep for the rich. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You poor urchin, you ungrateful soul, are to weep for the millionaire whose investment has not returned the triple figure yield he was promised by the corrupt usurer.

    There are few thousand filthy fucking rich narcissistic posers in this world who literally think everything is about them, and by continuing to give in to these lowlifes vanity and contribute towards the pomposity that is their drug induced, morphine and methamphetamine enhanced lifestyle, you only convince them more that they actually deserve to receive from you who is struggling to pay the bills, collectively, more than $20 Million per year for doing nothing. Nothing at all. Nothing valuable, nothing productive, nothing but being a useless scourge on the limited resources that man requires to live a sustainable lifestyle.

    These self-righteous "UN peace ambassadors" who do not do a single thing that doesn't serve themselves would lead you to believe they might have actually done an ounce of good in the world. You're fucking retarded if you believe that. They're getting richer by the day while they ask you to sacrifice your meagre existence towards contributing towards their causes.

    These sex obsessed philanderers spend more time looking in the mirror than they do any good.

    Now remember that these are the same people who would try convince you that you are to blame for them not being able to significantly increase the lavishness of their lifestyle. Greedy fucking thieves.

    While the world struggles with its most unstable period in recent memory, with deflationary cycles world wide, rampant disorder and terrorism, declining democracy and individual freedoms the scum that inhabit the air waves with their garbage tinned pop culture blame you. You are to blame for everything they have corrupted with their propaganda and filth.

    Ignore them, forget them, let their creation rot for they represent the true sins of excess. Sloth, greed, envy, gluttony, pride, lust and wrath.

    They lazily sit there pretending they work hard while you break your back and mind.
    They greedily take more and more and demand it and consume and envy those with more and fill their desires with lust and gluttony. Their lust exhibits in the sex they so forcefully broadcast.

    Their pride is vanity in its worst form.

    And their wrath is the countless lawsuits they use as warfare against the less fortunate.

    American idol or American psychopaths. That is the question?

    The 21st century tragedy.

    Fuck you all.

    1. Re:Weep for the rich. by ahabswhale · · Score: 1

      You're an idiot.

      --
      Are agnostics skeptical of unicorns too?
  45. Re:blind spot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    [...]

    Econ 101: you get what you pay for.

    +1 Wish I had points right now. ./ like most of the interwebs faithful avoids the truth like they avoid paying for music. They then want to bury it as quickly as possible. They then wrap themselves in some of the most cognitive dissonance laden thought processes powered by the Dunning-Kruger Effect that humankind has ever seen.

    “Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened.” - Winston S. Churchill ~

  46. Re:blind spot by dgatwood · · Score: 1

    Pandora pays royalties to the PROs, so no, the order isn't wrong. That's the order in which the payments occur. It was not intended to be ordered by amount of dollars kept, but rather to show the flow of money downhill, starting from the company that takes the money (e.g. Pandora) and ending at the people who actually did the work to create the music.

    --

    Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

  47. The record companies dont want streaming music by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    which is fine with me, i prefer to pirate it anyway.

  48. Singer-songwriters by tepples · · Score: 1

    Do you actually believe a large number of performers write their own music?

    The number of singer-songwriters is large enough to be notable. Otherwise, the Wikipedia article about them would probably have been deleted by now.

    1. Re:Singer-songwriters by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Wow ... someone uses Wikipedia's definition of notable to decide on their life.

      Just Wow.

  49. Is tthis industry growing it's user base? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1
    Not as far as I know. Since the introduction of streaming music services - what was it, 15 years ago? - I've changed the amount of music I listen to online from 0 hours per year to 0 hours per year. I've also changed the amount of locally-hosted music I listen to from about 5 hours per year to 2-3 hours per year.

    If the music industry wants to increase the profitability of online services, then they need to increase their user base. That's probably going to mean producing music or other sounds that people want to listen to, which is something they haven't done for a generation now.

    --
    Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  50. 2 Words... by TheDarkener · · Score: 1

    Creative Commons.

    --
    It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
  51. Ad network vs. robust ad network by tepples · · Score: 1

    Fred's assertion, as I understand it, is that the advertiser base underlying the no-charge tier of Pandora and Spotify isn't "robust".

  52. Providers (musicians) by raind · · Score: 1

    Certainly don't love it . Most of us just want play - often for free.

    --
    Get up!
  53. Free market by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The article links to an essay by a former eMusic CEO arguing high royalty rates make it impossible to have a profitable business, and the music industry "buried more than 150 startups -- now they are left to dance with the giants."

    That's the free market, companies compete and some loose.
    This includes large, powerful, companies with a large warchest and established income stream against new and unknown upstarts starting small.

  54. Re:blind spot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, IMO, the problem is that there are too many middlemen. The Internet service takes its cut, followed the the performing rights organization (e.g. ASCAP, BMI, or SESAC), the publisher takes at least half of what is left (and probably more), and the tiny crumbs that remain get divided between all the composers and lyricists. The artist probably gets nothing unless he/she is a singer-songwriter or there's some other specific arrangement with the publisher. Either way, the more middlemen you have leeching off your music, the less you'll make from it.

    This is an inevitable consequence of the public not paying attention to legal ethics issues - one of many.

    A rational legal system would not allow contract law to favor the middlemen. There would be a guaranteed minimum cut for any song writer or actor or other performing artist for ANY commercial usage of their work.

    But artists as a group are very poor (despite the rare individual exception), and big business is wealthy, and the lawyers want some of that money. Both groups have a vested interest in stealing money that would otherwise go to the artists. The lawyers thus ensure that contract law supersedes fundamental rights, and then use those contract to take away ownership from the artists, giving it to the corporations, taking a big cut initially, and getting ongoing business relating to those contracts for the rest of their lives.

    Worse, the lawyers are allowed to donate huge amounts of money to the political parties to ensure that the unethical status quo doesn't change. They not only influence the writing of the law, but also the selection of judges.

    Much the same thing happens with patent law, with many lucrative patents being owned by lawyers, and the system itself horribly screwed up to create lots of long term business for the lawyers, but also primarily looking out for the interests of big business.

    It's the same sort of process that led to the continuation of slavery when the USA was founded - the lawyers and the wealthy conspired to have a legal structure that worked to their benefit despite the fact that everybody with a functioning brain knew that the long term continuation of slavery was morally wrong, and also necessitated unethical practice of law in a nation founded to "protect the rights of man".

  55. bad business model by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The problem isn't music sales. The problem is streaming music. It's not a sale. You rent it. You own nothing. You control nothing. This is a problem for a generation (or two) who doesn't seem to care about owning anything. It will come back to bite you in the ass. (And not just music.) My prediction is, that long term, all streaming music services will ultimately fail.

  56. So so what? I still listen to rock stars... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...I buy my music, and I don't care if streaming survives. Or:

    Na na na na na na na na na na na na [x2]

    I guess you just lost your streaming,
    I don't know where your connection went.
    So I'm gonna play my great tunes,
    Downloaded and paid, no rent (nope)
    I got a brand new player and
    I'm gonna use it tonight
    Who needs to stream anything
    I permanently have my rights

    Na na na na na na na I permanently have my rights
    Na na na na na na na I permanently have my rights

    [Chorus:]
    So, so what
    Still hear the rock stars,
    I got my rock files,
    And I don't need you,
    And guess what,
    I'm having more fun,
    And now that we’re done,
    I'm gonna show you tonight,
    I'm alright,
    I'm just fine,
    Streamer's are all fools,
    So, so what,
    I still hear [the] rock stars,
    I got my rock files,
    And I don't want you tonight.

  57. Its all the FCC's fault by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wish i could find the article from way back when, but basically the RIAA got some crackpot economist to talk to the FCC and convince them that companies like pandora (Internet streaming music services) had to pay more money than radio. Basically Pandora back then had no adds and was paying company A once for the right to stream one song on multiple radio stations (remember, pandora lets millions of people around the world create personalized radio stations). After this ruling pandora had to pay a fee for EVERY SONG per RADIO STATION. So if i listen to lady gaga's 'just dance' on my station, while beyonce listens to it on her pandora station, pandora has to pay for each of those streams.

    Over night pandora's economics where changed and they felt the noose of ridiculous royalty payments wrap around their neck. Within the week pandora.com was blanketed with adds, both visual and auditory in an attempt to pay what is basically extortion to the record companies.

    The fact that pandora is still around years after this repressive licensing scheme is a testament to their tenacity. But until we the people rise up and demand fair licensing fees, pandora's days are numbered (and so are other internet streaming music services)

    THAT is why the economics of these companies are no longer sound. The RIAA colluded with the government to destroy Internet radio, if it weren't for that we'd have a very health and competitive market in internet streaming services.