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Telecoms Promise 5G Networks If EU Cripples Net Neutrality (theverge.com)
An anonymous reader quotes The Verge:
A group of 20 major telcos including Deutsche Telekom, Nokia, Vodafone, and BT promise to launch 5G networks in every country in the European Union by 2020 -- so long as governments decide to weaken net neutrality rules. The coalition's plans are outlined in its "5G Manifesto," a seven-page document that details how the companies will roll 5G out across the continent over the next few years. However, by warning against regulation that would ensure an open internet and encouraging nations to water rules down, the companies are effectively holding the new technology for ransom... "The EU must reconcile the need for open Internet with pragmatic rules that foster innovation," reads the manifesto. "The telecom industry warns that current net neutrality guidelines, as put forward by [the Body of European Regulators], create significant uncertainties around 5G return on investment..."
The EU is asking the public to share their feedback on the manifesto.
The EU is asking the public to share their feedback on the manifesto.
In the US I believe this would be a highly illegal act, does the EU not have similar laws?
If the telcos don't want it, it must be good for the consumer.
I'm sorry, but your opinion seems to be wrong.
Now, if the EU had any balls, it should pull the licences from those operators and give it to those who would not blackmail them. Or, better yet, promise anti-neutrality rules for AFTER the 5G network is up, then tell them to fuck-off.
The EU government says to the telcos, implement 5G or lose your corporate charter. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Another day closer to redwood heaven
Isn't this going to run into all kinds of anti-trust law? How can this group of companies get together and agree on something like this? Isn't this a hilarious level of collusion?
Let's turn this the other way around: "If you adhere to net neutrality, we *allow* you to build 5G networks on new fequencys and continue to make a shitload of money with a public resource (aka airwaves)".
5G Price Tiers:
50 Euro/month, 2 GB data cap, throttle to 64 kbps when you pass it for the rest of the month.
100 Euro/month, 3 GB data cap, throttle to 64 kbps when you pass it for the rest of the month.
And so on and so forth. They already do it with 4G, why not 5?
Yes, I really did see the other day a data plan for 21.6 mbps downstream, 1 GB monthly data cap and 64 kbps throttle.
-=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
If they don't remain competitive, a new technology will come along and they will be gone. :-)
That may still happen
But this is just like going to the government and asking for tax breaks to build something you have to build.
I'd have 0 need for 5G if they were to fuck up the internet framework that's already in place. Why would a government even allow this? Governing has absolutely nothing to do with 5G, this is just outright bullying. How about the Government take over and turn Telecom into a utility and take over the show like they do with utilities etc? Unless they provide 5G with internet framework staying put.
Will the telecoms really leave that much profit on the table and refuse to upgrade their networks?
I don't think they are that stupid. Or, rather, I do think they are that greedy.
I'm calling their bluff.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Without net neutrality, you have legalized extortion, censorship and bullying. The telecoms are already virtual monopolies, they should be have legal rights to do mafiaesque things.
I think that someone should just go tell the telcos to have intercourse with themselves over that demand.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
They can provide 5G but only if they can throttle the speed?
I guess they can't provide 5G then.
They will and have to launch 5G anyways. This is a scam to try to get something profitable from the EU for work they already have planned.
In the US, our internet service providers promised that with those sweet, sweet government enabling funds, we'd all be connected with "high speed" internet at a "reasonable" price. Here we are, a market with three competitors, a significant portion of the country running under a monopoly, extremely high prices for a limited amount of data (it's not rare to pay $150+ for what goes for €30 here in Germany), and are on the verge to legally owning something the government paid to build and would be promised is theirs. Even if the EU consents, why should they actually build it out? They are promising a verbal contract here, one that technically isn't valid, and if they actually did write a contract it would have the stipulation such that 95% of the country has to use more than 128 Terabytes per month or so. As soon as net neutrality is off the table, you will have to pay €150 for anything faster than 256 kpbs, I guarantee you.
And that's not even considering what the internet was actually for. It may just be a giant commercial venue today, but it's mind blowing to think that once upon a time, it actually was for academic purposes and freedom of speech and all that. While I don't think it should be exclusively a government service, it should at the very least be regulated as a utility should be, or if not that than the government should provide its own service to compete with the private ones. It would be insane to think of a water company limiting your water supply to a trickle, or your electric company deciding that if you don't double your monthly payment they will halve your power supply, and I don't understand why the internet shouldn't be opened the same way, especially given that we've already suffered through every website being a front to sell something, there's enough pure profit going on as it is.
Here's hoping the EU has the balls to do what the US government couldn't (and still can't).
"Set a man a fire, he'll be warm for the rest of the night. Set a man afire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
I tried to fill in the survey that is linked to above. First you have to state if you act for a company or as an individual. I filled in Individual. Then I had to answer many mandatory questions about the company I represented and how important 5G was for my company. After that came questions like:
5G European deployment should also target as priority from the start the services that enable creation of ecosystems with vertical industries, namely mMTC and URLL classes of use cases
Agree
Neutral
Disagree
Yeah, I can easily aswer questions like this as an individual who just uses his phone for YouTube and Whatsapp. Thanks EU for the nice survey.
-- Cheers!
At some point in the near future 5G will be made obsolete by the next best thing but net neutrality will be screwed forever.
Net Neutrality: Level playing ground. We can't be having none of that, nope... because it stifles:
Innovation: New and interesting ways in which to squeeze every farthing out of every consumer / customer / person.
The "Civilized World" jumped the shark ca. 1973.
"Net neutrality laws are here to protect everyone, and will not be weakened. If your organizations can't keep up with technology, the wireless spectrum community resource that has been temporarily leased to you be revoked and assigned to more capable enterprises. Any attempt to interfere with the handover (or degradation of service) will be answered with an eminent domain seizure of telecom equipment to support critical infrastructure and communication services until the handover is complete."
A government is a body of people notably ungoverned - AC
We promise 5g!
You know, so long as we get to redefine what "5g" means. We could probably run it on our existing networks, with that caveat
In my opinion cell phone networks should be unified. What I mean by that is that no matter who your cellphone provider is you should be able to use the towers closest to you. On my remote rural house Verizon has a cell tower but the rest are far away making Verizon the only that really works where I live. That makes no sense to me. Everyone in my area should be able to connect to this tower. There should be agreements between the different cell carriers that would allow using the closest tower to you. They should also turn all spectrum into a data network and use VoIP over it rather than normal calls and texts.
Competition as in if I don't like the mobile internet service in England, I can go across the Channel to France and use theirs?
I think someone should to go the Telcos and say "We want our money back, with interest, within fifteen minutes, or we start seizing assets and jailing executives and Boards."
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
"Recommendation for Naturalization of Telco Assets"
Bark less. Wag more.
You really believe this shit? The UK just discussed legislation to lick the asses of the content providers, shortly after the EU vote. And it will continue to worsen for UK citizens.
In fact you *need* state cartels (like the EU) to stop big corporations from exploiting countries. Think of the taxes situation: companies chose the country with the lowest taxes as their official place to be registered. This is nothing evil by the companies, but it creates competition amongst the countries about who has the lowest taxes. The end of the story is that the companies profit from super low taxes, and the countries get overloaded by debt like greece.
The only way out of this is to form a (game-theoretic) cartel of countries, as the EU is. Then you have at least *some* power over internationally acting companies.
The way I read it, they are saying they could have gone to 5g already, but are holding out to dig even deeper in the consumer's pocket.
Don't step on the baby.
You really think that the "Leave" blowhards like Theresa May are not in the pocket of big businesses like the telcos? Perhaps I have a bridge to sell you -- it's a nice bridge, called "London Bridge".
I don't hold out much hope, but I think that there is a greater chance that the EU will enforce net neutrality than the UK government.
You remember all those "EU regulations" that the Leave campaign warned people about? Net neutrality is likely one of them.
If you are in the UK and voted to leave, good luck buying a new car: new RHD cars are going to revert back to being much more expensive than LHD cars bought in the EU. Again: those pesky EU regulations, keeping prices down for consumers: it can't be allowed to continue.
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
So why doesn't the US split into individual states, then, if such a model is so awesome?
I call bluff. They WILL have to offer 5g networks or people will simply ignore them and keep their data transportation need on land lines. Which will cut into THEIR bottom line, not anyone else's.
So go ahead and hold that 5g for ransom. It's not like anyone but you gets hurt by it.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
[Big telecom companies] promise to launch 5G networks in every country in the European Union by 2020 -- so long as governments decide to weaken net neutrality rules.
Translation: if governments do not weaken net neutrality rules, other smaller telecom companies will be able to set up 5G networks, and that will hurt big telecom profits.
...but it sure seems like blackmail to me.
(Of course, IANAL blah, blah, blah...)
CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
Nationalize all the commercial telecoms. Then convert them to local and regional cooperatives. Communications is a utility now. While we're at it, we can do the same with the commercial power companies. I am lucky enough to live in an area served by an electric co-op. I live next door to people who have a large fee attached to their electric bill just so that the local commercial power company can pretend to build a site for a nuclear plant that will never be constructed.
No more of this phony blackmail. [pun intended.]
The worst expected consequence of keeping neutrality,is a little slower roll-out, but that mean cheaper and better tested when it does roll out.
4Gs (GGGG) should be enough.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Yes, it's so annoying! The EU is now working on abolishing roaming costs within its borders. That means if you live close to the border and you hop over for groceries or whatnot you don't suddenly pay three or more times the price you are used to for your calls to your home country about the shopping lists. The only way to prevent that to happen is a Fraxit, Nexit, Itxit, Grexit, Spaxit etc.
-- Cheers!
No need to do that. If I was the regulator I would just keep issuing the same statement in response to these multimillionaire CEOs - 'so you're saying you're not as good a business person as Page or Zuckerberg, so you want us to see if we can help you out?'.
Nobody is stopping these highly successful alpha business people from using their vast consumer relationships and network access to start their own youtube or whatever. The only thing stopping them is that they are not good enough at business. Perhaps if that message is shoved in their faces enough their shareholders will start demanding CEOs with entrepreneurial nous instead of the current crop of highly paid whinger.
is for ONE of the Telcos to break ranks with the rest and start offering a 5g network for public use. ( Investor pressure will force this eventually )
The others will panic over the loss of customers / revenue and will follow suit rather quickly. They'll have to.
Their investors will not tolerate sitting on the sidelines.
Stuck at current speeds vs. only being able to use the services a carrier decides I can use?
I think you know where you can put your 5G.
:T:R:A:N:S:
If launching 5G networks works financially for the companies then they will do it.. With or without Net Neutrality laws.
Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
Or, how about this:
The EU says "Fuck you, we're granting spectrum at half price to the first operator to sheds this corrupt collusive pack and deploys 5G networking equipment and lights it up available to the public. The remainder of the signatories to this pact will either be denied spectrum, or it will be licensed at vastly increased pricing. Including re-licensing of existing spectrum."
You can't blackmail government, when your entire business model hinges upon resources that are granted to you by that same government.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
I say revoke their license to the spectrum that they are already using, and if they continue to operate in it, fine them horrendously or jail the management until they rescind this clearly corrupt pact. And watch as all their subscribers move to another operator who instantly caves.
Maybe things in the EU are different, but a company would be suicidal to try this in the US.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
They tried that back in the 1860s. Didn't go to plan.
We don't want 5G. Maybe the politicians wants it. We users don't. What is the purpose of having 5G with a quota of 0,5 gigabyte? It is useless. We don't need faster connection as much that we need useful quotas and a low price point if we want to buy more data.
The EU must reconcile the need for an open internet with our endless hunger for a corner on the market and profits
Say it like it is, shithead telecoms.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
There are 20 of them backing this. That has to be all of them or very close to it. In the US we only have 4 or 5 of them. There are a couple more brands, they just happen to be owned by the others.
Due to the way cellular networks work, there can only be so much TOTAL bandwidth per tower, it's not as if you each have your own dedicated wire.
Because of this, if usage goes up, then there will have to be stronger restrictions.
Note: this is only true for cellular networks. Restrictions over internet that comes via wire can suck a big one.
Some people encrypt by using rot-13 twice. I prefer the more secure method of using rot-1 a total of twenty six times.