Windows 10 Warns Chrome and Firefox Users About Battery Drain, Recommends Switching To Edge (venturebeat.com)

A month after Microsoft claimed that its Edge web browser is more power efficient than Google Chrome and Firefox, the company is now warning Windows 10 users about the same. VentureBeat reports: Microsoft has turned on a new set of Windows Tips that warn Windows 10 users that Google Chrome or Mozilla Firefox is draining their laptop's battery. The solution, according to the notification, is to use Microsoft Edge.In a statement to the publication, the company said: "These Windows Tips notifications were created to provide people with quick, easy information that can help them enhance their Windows 10 experience, including information that can help users extend battery life. That said, with Windows 10 you can easily choose the default browser and search engine of your choice."

Comments

'Enhancements'

[Anonymous Coward]

You know what would enhance my windows 10 experience? Allow me to disable driver-breaking updates.

Re:'Enhancements'

[gweilo8888]

You know what would enhance your Windows 10 experience even more? Uninstalling it.

Re:'Enhancements'

[rubycodez]

he only needs to install this patch http://goodbye-microsoft.com/

Re:'Enhancements'

[Anonymous Coward]

Precisely. Using that same logic, they should suggest you uninstall windows and install Linux with just a shell. :)

Re:'Enhancements'

[omnichad]

You really care which architecture the preloader was made for? That only runs once.

Re:'Enhancements'

[AK Marc]

In my domain, windows updates are set to a local machine. No update is advertised or pushed unless it makes it to the update server, and is approved for distribution from there. For good measure, the firewall blocks connections to MS's update servers. Never had your problem. It's easy to fix, and many do it. That your work didn't means it's not a priority where you work. It's that simple.

Re:'Enhancements'

[Anonymous Coward]

Amen to uninstalling Win10 to improve your 'experience'.

I can almost see the MS secret sauce code behind this one:

if running.tasks.matches('Firefox') or running.tasks.matches('Chrome') {
    add.tasks('drainBattery.dll)
}

MS cannot be trusted. Not one millimeter, not one bit of a byte.

Re:'Enhancements'

[Anonymous Coward]

You know what would be a less painful and less invasive experience than using Windows 10? Letting a group of burly lumberjacks take turns fucking you in the ass.

Re:'Enhancements'

[Anonymous Coward]

1. How the FUCK do I get RID of it?

As for that question, try GWX Control Panel. I've yet to see a prompt since. As for the other two, 'money'.

Re:'Enhancements'

[macs4all]

1. How the FUCK do I get RID of it?

As for that question, try GWX Control Panel. I've yet to see a prompt since. As for the other two, 'money'.

I was wondering if I would need GWX Control Panel, thanks!

Re:'Enhancements'

[macs4all]

No.

https://tech.slashdot.org/stor...

WTF does OPERA have to do with this???

Re:'Enhancements'

[AK Marc]

So, pray tell, at this point, how do your snarky comments actually HELP me?

You didn't ask for help. I told you how other companies dealt with it, as you "asked" in the angry questions I took as rhetorical. I answered them. You didn't like the answer. So now it's my fault for not giving an answer that works for a small business that has servers, but no IT.

If you want that, go outsource your IT to someone in your area that specializes in MS management, and have them fix it for you. My billable rate for something like that is $150 an hour. If it's worth your time to do, it's worth your money to pay someone to do it. If not, I expect you are only interested in complaints. Most people complain about IT, but have no interest in actually fixing it.

Re:'Enhancements'

[Dutch Gun]

Download and run Never10. It uses the official Microsoft registry key to disable Windows 10 updates (likely demanded by corporate customers, because obviously they sure as hell don't listen to *us*), and cleans up any downloads you might have incurred. Best of all, it's a use-it-and-discard it program, not something you have to install and keep around.

Re:'Enhancements'

[macs4all]

Download and run Never10. It uses the official Microsoft registry key to disable Windows 10 updates (likely demanded by corporate customers, because obviously they sure as hell don't listen to *us*), and cleans up any downloads you might have incurred. Best of all, it's a use-it-and-discard it program, not something you have to install and keep around.

Cool, thanks!

Re:'Enhancements'

[macs4all]

The Windows update functionality and behavior is geared towards making it easy for the average user. It simplifies the process to make sure the user is up to date with the security patches. And for the numb nut up a few posts you can get rid of the Windows update icon on your task bar by making a minor tweak in the registry. Takes about 30 seconds to implement if you know what you are doing. And please remember that your average user do not give a shit about what OS they are running. The only thing care about is running their applications. If you were to migrate a user from Windows to Linux the user will most likely get pissed off when they try to use Open Office and realize they have to be retrained and figure out how to export all their MS Office documents, spreadsheets, and presentations into Open Office. And for any one that has already done this you should remember how all of your Excel scripts and worksheets often require manual intervention. You also probably ran into the problem of losing your document formatting which also requires manual intervention. The average user can not fix all these type of issues.

Excuse me AC; but was there actually an attempt to HELP *ME* in all that word-salad you just posted?

Re:'Enhancements'

[BronsCon]

You didn't ask for help. [...] small business that has servers, but no IT.

He did ask for help and he did not mention servers. These are desktops. You know, the little boxes you often find at desks, with a keyboard, mouse, and monitor attached, often along with a printer or scanner and possibly a webcam, and typically not in a rack with dozens or hundreds of similar systems. If his company had servers of any sort on-site they'd likely have both IT staff to manage them and a WU server on their domain.

The question really was simple, though: how does one, an individual (the bits about being signed in to a domain or it being a work PC are really and truly irrelevant here) running Win 7, prevent the telemetry and Win 10 nag updates from "infecting" their system?

You might be surprised to learn that there are options above and beyond setting up your own WU server and signing into a domain. In that vein, here's an actually useful answer, so that you can know what one looks like in the future:

Try GWX Control Panel, which should not only stop the Win 10 nags, but also allow you to block the telemetry updates without fully disabling Windows Update. Since it doesn't rely on being signed into a domain, it should work for all versions of Win 7, 8, and 8.1, and not just Pro and Enterprise releases. Hope this helps!

Re:'Enhancements'

[macs4all]

Try GWX Control Panel [ultimateoutsider.com], which should not only stop the Win 10 nags, but also allow you to block the telemetry updates without fully disabling Windows Update. Since it doesn't rely on being signed into a domain, it should work for all versions of Win 7, 8, and 8.1, and not just Pro and Enterprise releases. Hope this helps!

Thanks! That's now 2 "votes" for GWX Control Panel, and 1 for "Never 10". I guess there are multiple solutions!

See? THAT's what an HELPFUL ANSWER looks like, AK NARC! Is that so hard?

Thanks to BronsCon, and the others who have ACTUALLY provided HELPFUL and PRACTICAL suggestions.

As for the rest, who met my serious call for help only with derision and/or word-salad: Piss Off!!!

Re:'Enhancements'

[BronsCon]

For the record, I would have also suggested Never10 except that many users are reporting that it either stops working and needs to be run again, or simply didn't work for them. Never10 is less intrusive, for sure, so it may be worthwhile to try it first, though I'm not sure if it does anything to stop the telemetry updates.

On a personal note, I took the Win10 upgrade and, in fact, am waiting for parts to arrive for a new Win10 system build. It's not a bad OS, and the telemetry you can't turn off really isn't anything nefarious, it's stack traces and system metrics relating to crashes and system issues MS might have an interest in actually fixing; and it seems that's exactly what they're using the data for. After a rocky start with the OS and a few rounds of patches (seemingly driven by telemetry data), it's turned out to be rock-solid, stable, and actually quite a speedy system. Might I ask what your objection is? I know there are dozens of them floating around, I'm just curious which one you're holding on to; you might tell me something I haven't heard yet.

Re:'Enhancements'

[macs4all]

Yeah, he was explaining how Windows just isn't ready for the desktop, what with all the cryptic registry bullshit you have to do to solve simple problems like this one.

At least I can use my choice of text editors to fix Linux problems with cryptic configuration file bullshit.

So the answer is: "No, he was just bitching about Windows."

Re:'Enhancements'

[macs4all]

For the record, I would have also suggested Never10 except that many users are reporting that it either stops working and needs to be run again, or simply didn't work for them. Never10 is less intrusive, for sure, so it may be worthwhile to try it first, though I'm not sure if it does anything to stop the telemetry updates.

Yeah, that's kind of what I figured. I think that the GWX Control Panel people are "on it" more diligently.

Might I ask what your objection is?

I have two:

1. Telemetry. I DESPISE being data-mined at the level that MS had planned. It smacks of NSA involvement.

2. The "modern" UI. I haven't seen pix of W10 in the "Desktop" mode; so I am afraid that it will be like the Server 2012 R2 installations we have: That AWFUL "Tile" interface, or something just SLIGHTLY less obtrusive. I am a macOS guy, and am much more comfortable with a "traditional" Desktop metaphor. Yes, I'm old, shut up! ;-)

Re:'Enhancements'

[BronsCon]

I can't disagree with #1, honestly, but you can turn all of that off (and, indeed, it's the first thing I do during setup). The only thing you can't turn off is crash reports, and the developer in me fully understands why. I don't necessarily agree with forced crash reporting, but the fact is that people were even less likely to submit crash reports voluntarily than they were to install updates regularly, which kind of makes it difficult to track down and fix certain bugs. It's something I can deal with; if others can't, I'm also in a position to understand that. That said, my suggestion would be to just keep any illicit activities to your Mac and carry on... ;-)

Regarding #2, I skipped 8 and 8.1 precisely because of the lack of a proper start menu and the fact that the proper desktop was a secondary option, so I fully understand the concern. In Win 10, you can have the tile interface and, on a tablet, it's actually quite a nice interface. But Microsoft actually did the right thing here and brought back the proper desktop and start menu as the default. They did try to stick tiles in the start menus, as well, but you can turn them off. If you really want the Win 7 start menu (as I did), there's Classic Shell, which lets you do that and more. My start button is currently a middle finger thanks to Classic Shell; you could also, for example, drop an Apple logo down there if you were so inclined.

Re:'Enhancements'

[Billly Gates]

Updating on Windows is A MUST@!

It is a malware target and Windows 10 is sooo buggy in early builds compared to today. NTFS corrupts itself if you use a builld before the April update.. The update service is the only way to make it stable

If you have a machine that keeps getting bricked it means it is old and tested for Windows 7. Not 10. It is best not to update these machines as newer hardware does not break with auto updates.

Re:'Enhancements'

[macs4all]

The only thing you can't turn off is crash reports, and the developer in me fully understands why.

I get that, too. However, isn't one of the complaints that W10 Updates tend to "helpfully fix" stuff like disabled Telemetry?

I don't even use my Macs for nefarious activities (which aren't very nefarious anyway); I use my iPad; because Mobile Safari doesn't keep browser history, per se.

But Microsoft actually did the right thing here and brought back the proper desktop and start menu as the default.

That IS much better. Glad to hear it. Yeah, the W7 Start Menu is what I want; so Classic Shell it is! Thanks for the Link(s)...

Re:'Enhancements'

[AK Marc]

He did ask for help and he did not mention servers.

No, he asked 3 questions, all "why doesn't this work the way I want it to" rhetorical complaints.

And he did mention "servers". Or do you join a domain with no domain controller? That the server is misconfigured for his business needs shows that his business needs are are not important, or his IT is incompetent. Though, he said he has no IT, so perhaps that's the reason there's an issue.

In the old days, WSUS (or whatever it was called at the time, it has changed names many times) was available for server. Put that on, make it work, and it'll solve all his problems. But his tone made it sound like the problem was IT policy and his hate of MS, which can't be solved technically. The quickest and easiest "fix" is a firewall. Whether a "free" APK hostfile, or a commercial firewall depends on his personal situation. Seems he's fishing for a personal solution to make the problem worse by not following policy (if any).

Re:'Enhancements'

[AK Marc]

With a WSUS, you can pick and choose the machines that get the updates, so shield the old W7 machines from deadly updates. And encourage the security patches on the new ones.

Why is it that nobody here that's an expert on MS patching and security has never heard of WSUS/SCCM, a service that's been around about 20 years (SMS 1.0, 1994), in various names and functionality?

Re:'Enhancements'

[BronsCon]

isn't one of the complaints that W10 Updates tend to "helpfully fix" stuff like disabled Telemetry?

I've heard this, but I've never actually seen it. I'm sure someone, somewhere, has had it happen, or thinks they have; it seems plausible that someone might have changed some settings, installed some updates, broken something, then reverted to the first (and potentially only) restore point, the one Windows itself creates at the end of the install process. This would, of course, revert the settings, as the restore point was made before the settings changed. I'm just pulling this out of my ass, of course it's also entirely possible that this is a real issue but, again, I haven't seen it myself.

I don't even use my Macs for nefarious activities (which aren't very nefarious anyway); I use my iPad; because Mobile Safari doesn't keep browser history, per se.

So you admit you perform nefarious acts in teh interbewbz? Got it. ;-P

To each their own, please don't feel like I'm trying to pressure you, but... well... allowing the upgrade to happen is yet another way to stop the nagging. Just sayin'.

It's really not as bad as some people make it out to be. Win 10 brought me back to Windows after nearly 6 years of being Mac-only. Well, that and wanting a faster laptop than Apple offered, but when my choices were Windows 8 or Windows 8.1 I was willing to suffer. To be fair, my rMBP still accounts for 20-40% of my daily computer use, varying based on what I'm doing that day.

Re:'Enhancements'

[BronsCon]

1. How the FUCK do I get RID of it?

Sounds like he's asking for help, there.

2. Since this is a "Pro" install CONNECTED TO A DOMAIN, why is it even TRYING?

That does sound a bit like he's bitching, but it's also a valid question. Why is it trying? The answer, of course, is that it's Pro and not Enterprise, there is no WU server, and the subsystem that allows it hasn't been overridden (using the tools provided elsewhere in this thread).

3. How did it appear when I SUPPOSEDLY have Windows Updates COMPLETELY DISABLED?!?

That's a very damn valid question, as well. It is a Windows update that initiates the nagging, the update was not installed prior to updates being completely disabled, so how did it start? Why did the update get installed while updates were disabled?

The problem, it seems, is actually IT policy, given that his company appears to have no IT staff. I'd guess that to mean his company has no official IT policy, either. So yes, he's looking for a personal solution because, clearly, there is nobody else at his company who can provide one. Perhaps he is looking for a solution to deploy within the company at little or no cost, and he's been given a couple options by people who are actually interested in helping, rather than being internet tough guys.

Re:'Enhancements'

[AK Marc]

W7/W8/W8.1 can operate without ever seeing the Metro interface, and the desktop will be visually indistinguishable from XP (if you load an XP theme). Operationally, W10 will not have a start menu, and you'll have to use some effort to avoid seeing Metro. It's easier to use Metro as a start menu. With the tiniest modification of your irrational hates, it's more functional. But no, we can't change your irrational hate. I don't bother with the hacks to avoid seeing Metro completely, and just hit the windows key once when booting, then see metro less than once a week (other than the first flash after boot, until I hit a single key to hide it for the rest of the session).

To block telemetry, you should have a firewall. Handy, you can run that through a MS server as well. Use ISA, and MS won't get telemetry from the PCs, just the server. Put in a 3rd party firewall, and you can block what you want from a central location.

Re:'Enhancements'

[macs4all]

it seems plausible that someone might have changed some settings, installed some updates, broken something, then reverted to the first (and potentially only) restore point, the one Windows itself creates at the end of the install process. This would, of course, revert the settings, as the restore point was made before the settings changed.

I can see that, too.

So you admit you perform nefarious acts in teh interbewbz? Got it.

For me, "nefarious activities" == Porn. ;-)

It's really not as bad as some people make it out to be.

I know. There are actually a lot of under-the-hood improvements over W7, like a rewritten TCP/IP stack for one. I would have already upgraded my work laptop (or simply allow my employer to buy me a new one with W10 installed) if it weren't for the Tiles an the Telemetry. But, if I can get past that stuff, I may take you up on the "offer".

Win 10 brought me back to Windows after nearly 6 years of being Mac-only.

Yeah, I know. I'm still working on that little peccadillo you have... ;-)

Re:'Enhancements'

[macs4all]

With the tiniest modification of your irrational hates, it's more functional.

We have a few servers that use Server 2012 with the Windows 8-style Tile Interface. So I know what it's into. I like the ability to make those big ol' palm-button-sized "Tiles" for shortcuts to often-used Applications. However, that doesn't make up for the rest of the fugly POS.

Being primarily a Mac user, I don't really like the Start Menu either; but having used it on work computers since, well, since it appeared in Windows 95 (?), I am at least familiar with its particular "features". But I hate, hate, HATE the "Windowless" Windows UI. I have to jump through giant hoops to have multiple application windows available (or at least more than 2, right?), and compared with OS X's/macOS' several elegant ways of doing window and "multi-desktop" management, Windows always seems like a trip back to... well, a trip back to a UI that never should have made it off the bench in the first place.

To block telemetry, you should have a firewall.

No. That's COMPLETELY backwards.

There simply shouldn't be a NEED to "block Telemetry". That's one of my biggest bitches about W10. And your "solution" is to try and play whack-a-mole with port-blocking? Bitch, please!

One of the problems with that stupid non-solution is that I am SURE that the owners of Skype (MS) know VERY well how to do "tunneling", and so can simply push stuff out of a port you CAN'T afford to block, like 80, just like Skype did with its SIP packets, when it was a Peer-Peer network.

Re:'Enhancements'

[AK Marc]

Sounds like he's asking for help, there.

Why the FUCK would you think a YELLING profanity laden RANT was a LEGITIMATE question?

That's a very damn valid question, as well.

But is a generic question that if, completely answered, wouldn't help him at all.

Re:'Enhancements'

[BronsCon]

Why the FUCK would you think a YELLING profanity laden RANT was a LEGITIMATE question?

You're implying that this is not a legitimate question? I can roll with that.

Re:'Enhancements'

[Billly Gates]

Most of the IT people you see hear say no to all updates with a smile.

Re:'Enhancements'

[AK Marc]

Some guy who calls himself macs4all is asking loaded anti-microsoft questions. Yeah, I didn't take him seriously. Especially since he asked a question like the one you say isn't legitimate.

Re:'Enhancements'

[BronsCon]

Maybe get to know the guy? I used to think of him the same way you do, so I'm not placing blame, but your assessment is a bit off-base.

Re:'Enhancements'

[AK Marc]

But I hate, hate, HATE the "Windowless" Windows UI.

It's called "Metro".

I have to jump through giant hoops to have multiple application windows available (or at least more than 2, right?),

You have to jump through zero hoops to open have multiple application windows available. If you mean arrange applications in windows like you did from Windows 2.0 through Windows 10, there are also zero hoops to jump through. When you open an application, it switches automatically to desktop mode and disables Metro. When you open an App, it stays in metro. So don't install the Skype App, install the Skype Application, and you'll use Skype and never see Metro. If you install the wrong program, you'll see the GUI for the program you run.

There simply shouldn't be a NEED to "block Telemetry". That's one of my biggest bitches about W10.

So you don't want a solution, you want to complain. I treated your first post that way because I correctly read it, and you complained you wanted a real answer, and that I was unhelpful. But now, it's back to a generic complaint about the basic design of MS software.

One of the problems with that stupid non-solution is that I am SURE that the owners of Skype (MS) know VERY well how to do "tunneling", and so can simply push stuff out of a port you CAN'T afford to block, like 80, just like Skype did with its SIP packets, when it was a Peer-Peer network.

If you think a "firewall" does nothing but simple port blocking, you should try a firewall that didn't come free in your $30 home router.

Re:'Enhancements'

[rubycodez]

you can install 64 bit linux with that 32 bit pre-installer binary

And on Chromebook...

[Dan East]

And when you run Edge or Firefox on a Chromebook, Chrome OS warns.... Oh wait. You can't run 3rd party browsers at all under Google's Chrome OS.

Re:And on Chromebook...

[MightyYar]

Which would piss me off if they sold it as a general purpose computer instead of a "Chromebook" that runs... Chrome.

Re:And on Chromebook...

[Anonymous Coward]

And when you run Edge or Firefox on a Chromebook, Chrome OS warns.... Oh wait. You can't run 3rd party browsers at all under Google's Chrome OS.

firefox runs just great on my chromebook, just install chrubuntu and it's just another linux box.

tell us about the os choices on your surface hardware

Re:And on Chromebook...

[Sax Russell 5449D29A]

It's about holding a dominant position in the computer OS markets and utilizing that to further entrench your dominance. The same applies for example to Google using their dominant position on the search engine markets to promote their own products at the expense of competitors' visibility in search results.

Re:And on Chromebook...

[Lonewolf666]

In related news, the European commission starts noticing a possible abuse of Android to skew the market against competitors:
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/apr/20/eu-commission-google-android-skew-market-competition-antitrust-vestager

It seems quite possible that the next antitrust proceedings are brewing here...

Re:And on Chromebook...

[MightyMartian]

Except Edge sucks so incredibly bad that even if it made my battery last three times as long I wouldn't use it. With great effort we've finally rolled out our default apps XML file through GPO settings to all but make Edge disappear, because that astonishingly terrible hunk of shit even wants to open PDF files by default.

Re: And on Chromebook...

[Anonymous Coward]

Whether it's a steaming pile of diarrheatic human excrement... or not, is irrelevant. You should ignore its features and base your decisions on ethical point of views. Thst being said, what MS is doing is unethical. Ditch all MS products you can.

Re:And on Chromebook...

[Anonymous Coward]

Too lazy to login...

My laptop is running Win10 at the moment. I gave Edge a chance. I really did. I no longer use Edge.

It liked to crash on all sorts of circumstances, didn't handle video very well, especially video ads, could not get ad blocking software to work (granted this was months ago, so maybe that has changed?) . Scrolling on certain pages, especially those with video content would cause the screen to go black, there were other pages that occured on as well. Sometimes I was able to get back to what I was doing with a ctrl-alt-del, sometimes it forced a reboot. I have no such issue using Chrome.

It feels like they scrapped the IE code base and started from scratch while at the same time forgetting some of the lessons they learned over the years with IE. For all the hate IE receives, it's still a better browser than Edge.

Re:And on Chromebook...

[AK Marc]

What's wrong with Edge? I find it and IE interchangeable. I don't use MS browsers much, but IE and Edge haven't seemed sufficiently different to make me prefer one over the other, though I don't use either extensively.

Re:And on Chromebook...

[MightyMartian]

The real frustration for us in our organizational roll out was that it would outright not run at all, bringing up some rather nasty error dialog. We did manage to fix it with DISM command line repair options, but that was an incredibly arduous process. What we did find is that some of the failures of Edge, Cortana and the Start Menu on some systems appears to have been botched upgrade of V2 roamin profiles to V5 profiles, although we had seen nothing like this on the few systems in the test bed that we had upgraded to 8/8.1. But even where we got Edge up and running, users pretty much revolted right away, so we just ended up throwing the enterprise version of Chrome as a distribution via GPO, and with the reasonably comprehensive ADMX file Google has provided, we could even do some tinkering to Chrome's functionality.

At this point, I can't imagine us even bothering with Edge. Even for our mobile users, I doubt the alleged difference in battery life could make up for how deficient it is. So, it goes in the same bucket IE did before. If someone really wants to use it, go to it, but our IT staff won't be supporting it.

Re:And on Chromebook...

[MightyMartian]

Oh good, perhaps you can inform us what we did wrong.

Go for it, Mr. AC.

Re:And on Chromebook...

[MightyYar]

Let's ignore for the moment that you can put Linux on a Chromebook, which does run Linux kernel after all.

You basically restated what I just said. If I buy a "laptop", I expect it to be a general-purpose computer. At the very least, it should run a general purpose OS like Windows. With some luck, you can make it run a different general-purpose OS. If I buy a Chromebook, I expect it to run Chrome. It's in the name: Chrome-book. I have no expectation that it should be a general purpose computer, and any ability to load a general purpose OS on it is pure gravy.

It sounds like you are in the market for a general purpose computer. Don't buy a Chromebook.

Re:And on Chromebook...

[joetomato]

What's wrong with Edge?

Your favourites folder is no longer able to be redirected, (They're stored in some awful location like %appdata%/localLow/Microsoft /{00423025-2252342fj90fcj2903} in some awful proprietary blob database, so if you're in an environment that you might use multiple computers there's no way to sync your favourites unless you log into the computer with a microsoft account (Or Azure AD account) And the GPO's available at the moment to configure it are pretty much non-existant. You can set the home page and a couple other things but other than that it's pathetic.

Re:And on Chromebook...

[hairyfeet]

It says clearly on your "general purpose" laptop "Designed for Windows (insert version)" so by your own argument they are Winbooks, your post doesn't even follow your own logic.

Re:And on Chromebook...

[lucm]

If he restated what you just said, why do you have to restate his restatement?

Someone's got to break the cycle.

Re:And on Chromebook...

[Anonymous Coward]

+1

Saw an issue on a brand new surface book today where Edge has decided to rename every single downloaded file replacing the "." with an underscore.

Executables, dont open.
Word documents dont open
PDFs dont open.

Its great!

I'm sure theres a setting in there causing it; but easier to replace the browser with Chrome. It's not my Surface Book after-all.

Re:And on Chromebook...

[Anonymous Coward]

The biggest problem I've had with Edge (as opposed to IE) is that CAC access for USAF webmail (and various other DoD sites) doesn't work with edge... Not to be fussy, it doesn't really work with Chrome, either. The only reason I close out of chrome and use IE is to check work stuff from home.

Re:And on Chromebook...

[MightyYar]

If windows sold laptops running windows forbidding chrome installs, and called it windowbook you'd be crying your heart out.

I believe that's called a "Surface", and no you can search my comment history - I never "cried my heart out". Never bought one, but neither did anyone else. I don't cry about Apple's locked-down iOS stuff, because they are very upfront that you need to install apps from Apple's store. I do cry about certain Android products that are far more locked down than standard "Android", simply because it is not at all clear without doing some research first... it's still being sold as "Android" despite being less capable.

Re:And on Chromebook...

[MightyYar]

Windows itself is general purpose. If you need to run Linux, you should probably do some research before buying a "Designed for Windows" laptop.

Re: And on Chromebook...

[MightyYar]

I think you are probably using a Surface Pro or a Surface Book. The original Surface was an Arm device that was decidedly locked down.

Re: And on Chromebook...

[Billly Gates]

No edge has buggy JavaScript and Windows 10 can self corrupt with earlier builds before 100560.

I kept Windows 8 until last month for these reasons and still use IE 11 for testing code and sites and ignore Edge. It's not ready for prime time yet and you can forge it to render with IE 11 with a specific Css tag. Thats what I am doing until 2017 or so.

Re:And on Chromebook...

[neoritter]

So you had to install a NEW OS to do this. Are people this stupid?

Re:And on Chromebook...

[allo]

A chromebook just has a ubuntu under its surface. Of course you can install a firefox. I guess running edge takes some work with wine and so on.

Windows 10 isn't done until...

[zkiwi34]

Chrome, Firefox, or for that matter anything not out of Microsoft won't run.

Re:Windows 10 isn't done until...

[Shadow99_1]

Ironically Chrome runs just fine for me on Windows 10, however Edge does not. It regularly 'comes up' and then doesn't load correctly. This gives me a useless window that won't connect to sites on the internet. Ever. I open and close it enough it it may eventually open correctly. Chrome? Chrome always opens. Firefox did as well when I had it installed. Opera works fine and all the time as well. No idea why Edge can't work right, but it's the one I won't be using.

Re:Windows 10 isn't done until...

[Anonymous Coward]

See how much battery power it saves!

Re:Windows 10 isn't done until...

[Opportunist]

So this is the trick Edge uses to conserve battery power. By not opening the pages.

"Google works better with Chrome"

[Hardhead_7]

So what's the news? Google pushes you to download Chrome every time you visit their site.

Re:"Google works better with Chrome"

[shaitand]

Google doesn't have a monopoly on the desktop... hasn't been convicted of illegally using that monopoly to give a market advantage vs competitors including their browser. That would be apples to apples if Microsoft were advertising Edge on bing.

Yet again, Microsoft is up to their old tricks. Sleezily shoving windows 10 down the throats of users and now slimy tricks to get people to install their new browser.

Re:"Google works better with Chrome"

[Chmarr]

You're right. They should be marked -2.

Re:"Google works better with Chrome"

[WheezyJoe]

Yes, and Yahoo (remember them?) suggests you run Firefox. But these are routinely ignored, jammed somewhere on a corner of the page. Attentive users may be annoyed for a few moments before moving on, while novice users have no awareness it was ever there. I mean, the page is displaying, isn't it? It's like you drive to McDonald's, and see a sign that says "Your ride here would have been more fun in a Chevy Malibu!" Nevertheless, you've arrived, your attention turns to your craving for salty oily processed food, and you go on your way.

It's a different thing when the OS itself bitches at you. They tend to look like dire warnings, that send dumb users to the phones asking "am I doing something wrong?" Like Amber-Alert signs flashing at you to dump your ride for a Chevy Malibu cause you're wasting gas or something.

Re:"Google works better with Chrome"

[kheldan]

Knowing Microsoft's history, I wouldn't at all be surprised if it detects a 3rd-party browser being used, and intentionally disables power management to force battery drain, to trick you into using their browser instead.

Hey, nice battery you've got there, end user, it would be a shame if something.. HAPPENED to it.. Maybe you'd better use our Edge browser, you know, for your own protection

Re:"Google works better with Chrome"

[chipschap]

Right, Google has a monopoly on phones, because no one uses iPhones.

Re:"Google works better with Chrome"

[darkpixel2k]

Google is the most anti competitive company on the face of the Earth, uses Youtube as a means of subverting artist's profit, and is front for the CIA/NSA

I think I like Microsoft more.

You're damn right. When I upload unlisted videos of my kids for grandma to watch, Google isn't paying me! I demand money for using their excellent hosting platform for free!

Re:"Google works better with Chrome"

[mschwanke97402]

So what's the news? Google pushes you to download Chrome every time you visit their site.

I don't have to use Google. In fact, I use DuckDuckGo instead. I pretty much have to use Windows for business reasons. You see the difference?

Then there is simply the old school belief that a computer OS should be a neutral platform, enabling the user to make the computer do its bidding, not serving up ads that you can't turn off on a device that you actually need to use.

Re:"Google works better with Chrome"

[shaitand]

Google and Facebook are pretty sleazy but they don't have a monopoly. Idiots buy into their shit eyes wide open.

Microsoft does have a monopoly and is actively trying to use it to dupe people into adopting their new products.

Google and Facebook have set up a stand that says in big bold blinking letters. "Free stonecones with ass raping!" When questioned they say that everyone has to be ass raped in order to make free snow cones possible. But that isn't the point, the point is, you could simply choose to buy a snow cone at any of the other snow cone stands.

Microsoft is setting up a booth in the doorway of the only grocery store in town with a sign saying "Free health checkup! You'll live longer using our quick and fun service." You then have to solve a rubiks cube to indicate you don't want the service and just want to go in the store, anything else, including putting the cube down results in a 6'5 greasy convict grabbing you and ass raping you.

See the difference?

Re:"Google works better with Chrome"

[omnichad]

Who did they offer it to for free? Only people who paid for another (ad-free) version of Windows get Windows 10 for free.

Re:"Google works better with Chrome"

[omnichad]

a 6'5 greasy convict grabbing you and ass raping you.

Is that what the kids mean when they say "Free health checkup" these days? It's hard to keep up.

Re: "Google works better with Chrome"

[DoofusOfDeath]

Yup, Microsoft is the new Yahoo.

Re:"Google works better with Chrome"

[thegarbz]

Don't contribute to malice what can be contributed to a browser being about as functional as as a program that calls sleep(); over and over again. Because while being super power efficient it is about as useful as Edge.

I attribute Chrome and Firefox's higher power use to actually attempting to render the damn web pages.

Re:"Google works better with Chrome"

[exomondo]

Microsoft does have a monopoly and is actively trying to use it to dupe people into adopting their new products.

Oh come on, there's more to it than just market share and as far as personal computing is concerned these days there are a wealth of different options, Microsoft barely has a majority (in fact I'm not sure they do anymore) in personal computing anymore. There's various Linux distributions and Dell even supplies Ubuntu pre-loaded on their XPS, Inspiron and Precision products, there are Chromebooks, there are Macs, there are iPads, there are Android devices, are these really not viable alternatives for personal computing?

Re:"Google works better with Chrome"

[shaitand]

Chromebooks, iPads, Android devices... these are mobile devices and are a completely different market. There is a reason many people have a phone, tablet, laptop, and a desktop. Since laptops and desktops differ only in hardware flexibility and performance and can almost do the same things these days they are becoming comparable. Mobile devices on the other hand do not run with full desktop capabilities and interface. Most people have both a desktop device (laptop/desktop) and a mobile device (tablet/phone).

As for Linux distributions and Macs, certainly, they are viable in many ways but MacOS only has 4.9% of the market and linux 2%. Ultimately yes, it does come down to market share. It also comes down to the fact that for almost the entire market changing operating system after purchase is not a viable option for their technical skill level and learning a new operating system is not a small undertaking.

Imagine a world in which Oxford has control of the English language and makes sweeping changes, say causing every word of English to be heard by the NSA. In this world switching would mean losing all knowledge of English. Your argument is akin to suggesting they no longer have control of the market because people have morse code, french, and german as viable choices. Morse code is a different sort of communication mechanism. One could switch to French (4% of speakers) or German (2%) but then you couldn't communicate with the 90% that are using English and if publishers don't choose to print their books in your language which only 2-4% of people understand you can't read them, the same for movies, music, software interfaces, road signs, and of course you are stuck with this choice if your place of employment opts for any of those things that are English only.

The simple reality is that so long as Microsoft has a monopoly, people making a product or service that integrates with a computer or software can target that platform and reach 90+% of the market. When it costs just as much to target each other platform many can and do choose not to target the other 6%. You can make something web-based and possibly hit 100% and the mobile market as well but that requires a browser to access and Microsoft is shoving their browser down everyone's throat.

If they succeed suddenly they have the power they used to have with IE, the power to introduce new and incompatible features and make all other browsers look inferior simply because they have different features than what people are used to. Suddenly web content starts to have the same problem it used to have when MS had a browser monopoly a bunch of MS browser only targeted content. It would roll back advancements in open technology to the terrible state they were in during the 90's. In many workplaces people are still locked in to inferior IE only content due to mentalities and carry over solutions from those dark times. Nobody wants that... except Microsoft.

Re:"Google works better with Chrome"

[exomondo]

Chromebooks, iPads, Android devices... these are mobile devices and are a completely different market.

Well they're just not, as far as personal computing goes pretty much all personal computing tasks can be done on all those devices. By your definition Google has a monopoly on Chromebooks and therefore should not be allowed to ship their Chrome browser on it, but that would just be silly.

There is a reason many people have a phone, tablet, laptop, and a desktop.

I don't think that's even a fact, I'd say very few people have a phone, tablet, laptop and desktop.

Most people have both a desktop device (laptop/desktop) and a mobile device (tablet/phone).

Again with this "most people", what is it they are doing on their desktop that they can't do on any other device? There are some things certainly but it hardly affects the majority of people.

As for Linux distributions and Macs, certainly, they are viable in many ways but MacOS only has 4.9% of the market and linux 2%.

So they aren't a viable alternative because fewer people use them?

Ultimately yes, it does come down to market share.

No, it doesn't, if you think it does then you don't know what a monopoly is. A monopoly is about "market power" this does not just mean market share and you also have to define the market you are talking about.

The simple reality is that so long as Microsoft has a monopoly, people making a product or service that integrates with a computer or software can target that platform and reach 90+% of the market.

Actually the reality is that despite Microsoft's position even the most desktop-centric software like Photoshop, Maya, AutoCAD, etc are available on the Mac and some industry-leading software, like Logic Pro, is only available on the Mac.

Re:"Google works better with Chrome"

[donaldm]

Google doesn't have a monopoly on the desktop... hasn't been convicted of illegally using that monopoly to give a market advantage vs competitors including their browser. That would be apples to apples if Microsoft were advertising Edge on bing. Yet again, Microsoft is up to their old tricks. Sleezily shoving windows 10 down the throats of users and now slimy tricks to get people to install their new browser.

Well to be fair, if you install Windows 10 or even upgrade to Windows 10 you do get the Edge browser by default. To get other web browsers if you did a fresh install (not sure about an upgrade) you actually have to use the Edge browser to get them.

What I don't like about Windows 10 is by default all "settings" are turned on and while it is fairly easy to turn off the more intrusive settings you do have to edit the registry to lock down the OS even further. This is fine if you do have some technical knowledge or use third party software that you trust but most people have no idea how to secure Windows 10 and I think Microsoft likes it this way.

Even if you lock down Widows 10 it still likes to phone home. I have Windows 10 in a virtual machine and on startup before I even log in, it actually goes out and talks to some machines and, you guessed it these machines are owned by Microsoft ( WireShark is great for detecting things like this). Needless to say, my Windows 10 virtual machine is hardly ever run and just remains a curiosity for me.

Again being fair, Windows 10 appears to be a very functional OS and it is possible to turn off most of the intrusive settings, however, if I compare it against my Fedora 24 plasma spin which I can customise to what I like and want it is rather pedestrian.

Re:"Google works better with Chrome"

[ThatsMyNick]

No, you dont have to use Windows for business. I dont see the difference.

Re:"Google works better with Chrome"

[shaitand]

IOS and Android run in the mobile space, not the desktop space.

https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0

Re: "Google works better with Chrome"

[shaitand]

Actually the desktop market is a massive market.

https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0

Re:"Google works better with Chrome"

[phorm]

I used to get a "use Chrome" nag but haven't for quite a long time now (when using Firefox etc). Is that still a thing?

Re:"Google works better with Chrome"

[shaitand]

https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0

They might have stopped that particular scheme with OEMs but it hasn't hurt them much. They've only lost 6% of their marketshare which is the combined marketshare of Linux/MacOS.

Here's a Windows Tip

[Anonymous Coward]

With Windows 7 you don't get notification pop ups about your preferred choice of software.

Permit me to be the first to say . . .

[mmell]

hahahahahaha . . .

You see, you have to believe MS's position that the Trident rendering engine is significantly more efficient than Gecko in something other than a test designed to showcase Edge's not-so-obvious superiority. I wonder if that render efficiency "egde" is due to the lack of plugin support?

Re:Permit me to be the first to say . . .

[Anonymous Coward]

Edge doesn't user Trident for rendering... not why this is up-modded.

Re:Permit me to be the first to say . . .

[mmell]

20% insightful.

30% interesting.

50% troll.

I'd say there's a MicroShill out there with a severe case of butt-hurt.

No thanks, again.

[ITRambo]

I've found Edge to be unstable on many sites. It's also slower than Chrome, Firefox, or Opera. The biggest issue I have with Edge is that I cannot add uBlock Origin as an extension, which reduces data usage and speeds up browsing. Edge is a real POS that should never have been released when it was. Edge being the default browser on Windows 10 is what helped Chrome become the most widely used desktop browser. Microsoft will do and say whatever they can to try to win people back to the MS browser camp. No thanks.

Re:No thanks, again.

[SuricouRaven]

I've not used edge much, but in its defence, it is better than the previous IE.

In the same way that the common cold is better than norovirus.

Re:No thanks, again.

[Billly Gates]

Next month Edge will have a webkit extension store and will be compatible :-)

I still use IE 11 on Windows 10 to test code. I find IE 11 better than Edge oddly. It is not the same browser at all compared to IE 6. Not awesome, but it is ok and is usable and W3C compliant now.

I just add a line of CSS code to tell edge to load the IE 11 engine for compatibility as I do not want to bother to debug it as it is still alpha level quality and no one really uses it yet.

It is somewhat misleading though...

[madwheel]

Edge saves power on a few benchmarks but not across the board. Throwing out an arbitrary number of "x" percent could be saved by switching will confuse all the family members that call, asking if they should switch. On the other end, Windows 10 is their own product. They can kind of do whatever they want, and we can decide if we use them or not.

Is anyone surprised by this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft started uninstalling your software with updates to push their own software, claiming "incompatibility". Now, they're trying to draw you from competing browsers to their browser, using "battery life" as the excuse this time. Does this surprise anyone? I suspect we'll see more of this in the coming year.

My decision to not get thes 'free' crap...

[superdave80]

...is looking better and better every day. I still need to take some time to figure out how to stop the annoying upgrade warnings on Win 7.

Re:My decision to not get thes 'free' crap...

[Killall -9 Bash]

download and use GWX Control Panel
http://ultimateoutsider.com/do...

Re:My decision to not get thes 'free' crap...

[Runaway1956]

https://www.grc.com/never10.ht...

https://voat.co/v/technology/c...

http://ultimateoutsider.com/do...

https://www.safer-networking.o...

Any, or all, of those seem to be safe to use. Try one, or try them all. They mostly duplicate each other's measures, but they aren't quite all the same, either.

Laughable

[Anonymous Coward]

It's laughable that they claim to care about the battery now. If they really cared, they'd let me shut down my fucking laptop without installing updates.

Hey Microsoft! I don't always have time or battery power to sit around waiting for updates to install!

Re:Laughable

[Killall -9 Bash]

windows update says "don't turn off the computer"

Know what I do...?

I turn off my fucking computer. Every time.

This has only b0rked windows on me twice, in 15 years of doing it.

Re:Laughable

[Anonymous Coward]

I know, on my own system on my own time I definitely do this.

But when I'm on site with a client's system and I have to make the judgement call: screw the OS and waste the afternoon rebuilding/restoring, or wait out the upgrades, it's a tough decision. Last one I did was a 90 minute fucking wait. Screw that.

Re:Laughable

[aardvarkjoe]

This has only b0rked windows on me twice, in 15 years of doing it.

You should probably find a more efficient way of b0rking Windows -- you'll be much happier. A hammer should do it.

Re:Laughable

[omnichad]

Just do a restart instead of a shutdown. Then hard power off the system at the moment of the reboot. This is easier done on desktop, else you'll have to remove the battery - because on a modern system, you won't have 7 seconds to shut it down with the power button before Windows is half-booted again.

Re:Laughable

[MrNiceguy_KS]

After it reboots, but before it starts loading Windows, you can usually hit some key to load hardware setup or the boot options. You can kill the power from there.

I swear to God, every freaking time I start to consider moving my desktop to Win10, MS pulls something like this and makes me reconsider.

Re:Laughable

[omnichad]

you can usually hit some key to load hardware setup or the boot options.

Again, if the machine is booting using EFI "fast boot" you often can't even get to those either. I wanted to get to my motherboard's F12 boot menu. I tried over and over, just rebooting or shutting off and powering back on and never got in but the OS started booting before the keyboard had even initialized. I had to turn it off, unplug the power cord, drain the caps by pressing the power button repeatedly before it would do a normal boot so that I could get to the boot menu.

Re:Laughable

[hackertourist]

You still shut down your laptop? How quaint.
Hibernate instead, and install updates+restart once a week.

Re:Laughable

[omnichad]

I mean the motherboard's boot drive selection menu, not Windows boot menu.

Re: Warning: Windows 10 is draining your battery

[Anonymous Coward]

For anyone who deliberately installs Windows in 2016, battery life is probably the last thing to be concerned about.

google chrome sleep mode?

[Midnight Thunder]

Wasn't Google Chrome (the browser) meant to introduce a sleep mode to background tabs? Does anyone know whether that was introduced or whether I am confusing the browser product?

At the same time Google Chrome often shows up as 'using significant energy' on my MacBook Air, under MacOS 10.11.5. Has anyone done any profiling to see what aspect of Google Chrome is consuming the CPU? BTW I am one of those tab hoarders, but apparently not as bad as some.

Re:google chrome sleep mode?

[Midnight Thunder]

While I didn't find the news article I thought I had read, I did find the Chrome extension 'The Great Suspender', which indicates it 'Automatically suspends unused tabs to free up system resources'. Just installed it in the hope it actually helps - BTW I have no involvement in the creation of this extension, but it does appear to be open source: https://github.com/deanoemcke/...

Re:google chrome sleep mode?

[The MAZZTer]

Chrome will automatically unload the contents of tabs you can't see in low memory conditions. It also drastically reduces the firing rate of JavaScript timers and intervals on such tabs all the time when they are not visible. I think it might even freeze them now unless they are playing audio, not sure.

Re:google chrome sleep mode?

[tepples]

Chrome will automatically unload the contents of tabs you can't see in low memory conditions.

Which makes it harder to open things in tabs to read later while offline, as it'll often try to reload them from the Internet instead of cache.

Re:google chrome sleep mode?

[Bert64]

The problem is it's difficult to identify a low memory situation on a multitasking system, mainly due to such programs...
If one program frees up memory or flushes caches in situations like this, then other such programs will no longer see a low memory condition and feel free to allocate themselves more memory. You can't easily control which programs are aiming to conserve memory and which are using it all needlessly.

Nice battery you have there...

[Anonymous Coward]

it would be ashamed if something happened to it.

To review and sum up the Windows 10 evolution...
-- OS Updates will no longer be done once a month with clearly written KB's on what is being updated.
-- Only folks who buy Enterprise licenses will have a chance at disabling the in-built data mining collection tentacles.
-- Enterprise licenses will be moving towards subscription based pricing models.
-- Everyone else will both pay for the OS up front and be permanently subject to spying and ads in the start menu and anywhere else to we decide. We'll just create another anonymous update and push those changes later.
-- Over time we'll probably start stripping out more than just Solitare which we will then put into the Windows Store and sell back to you. [like defrag, defender, firewall,etc]
-- we will reset your privacy options with random updates and not tell you.

Re:Nice battery you have there...

[Joe_Dragon]

well you don't install pro battery add on then this system with a non removal battery will be red flagged and allowed to fly

Re:Consistency people

[Anonymous Coward]

And when you are doing it from the work IE 6 you wish you could.

Re:Warning: Windows 10 is draining your battery

[jellomizer]

I expect most of it is because Edge is already running in the background (Integrated web browser). So When running Chrome of Firefox it is using more power because you are running Edge and the other browser. If you could fully deIntegrate the web browser from Windows You may see Windows running with less power requirement. And when you kick off a third party browser you may not see such a drane.

Also I expect your other browsers are using the extra processing power to do things like properly rendering the page. And not the cheapo decade behind the times compatibility that Edge has to offer.

Re:Consistency people

[Killall -9 Bash]

I used to bitch about windows 8 and 10 wanting you to create an account.... but then I realized Google is much more annoying about wanting me to sign in.

Re:Consistency people

[torkus]

Yup, but not on my desktop itself.

I only see those notifications when I visit google's webpage as part of (or in place of) other ads.

As opposed to a 'notification area' being used as an advertising area. It'd be nice though if they made a button called 'yeah I acutally know what i'm doing, leave me alone' ... I mean besides installing linux of course.

Re:Warning: Windows 10 is draining your battery

[Anonymous Coward]

Problem is Linux is way worse than windows 10 when it comes to power efficiency and battery life.

On my surface pro 3 (i7/8gb/256gb) i get about 8 hours of battery life for mixed web (chrome), office apps & VS 2015 under windows 10.

That drops to just under 5 hours for ubuntu 15.10 for the same type of workload. Chrome, libre office and Kdevelop.

Windows 10 completely wipes the floor with ubuntu for power efficiency and battery life.

As an aside OSX 10.10 on the same surface pro gets about 7.5 hours though its a bit unstable for intensive use having problems with sleep/resume.

Re:Warning: Windows 10 is draining your battery

[Anonymous Coward]

I've found that Linux costs me about 3 hours of battery life compared to Windows. Having proper driver support is important for these sorts of things.

is there

[desdinova 216]

an ad blocker for edge. last time I tried it they didn't have any ad blocker (please no host file APK spam) I refuse to run a browser without ad blocking because of malware.

Re:is there

[ljw1004]

an ad blocker for edge. last time I tried it they didn't have any ad blocker (please no host file APK spam) I refuse to run a browser without ad blocking because of malware.

Yes, the ad blockers so far released for Edge are "Adblock" and "Adblock Plus"
https://www.engadget.com/2016/...

They're for the anniversary update, currently available on the insiders program, due for general release on August 2nd.

Re:is there

[mrprogrammerman]

It's not only that. The ads also drain battery life so Chrome with ad-blocker is probably more energy efficient.

Okay, but ...

[fahrbot-bot]

Where's the warning that says using Edge (and/or IE) drains my will to live?

Re:Warning: Windows 10 is draining your battery

[Anonymous Coward]

You are actually an outlier case then. For most hardware Win 10 is way more power efficient than linux

Microsoft still makes "special" browsers

[Anonymous Coward]

If one of the biggest software companies in the world can some day release a browser that shows web pages as designed, maybe, just maybe I'll consider saving a couple of wattseconds by using their browser. Until then, get coding.

Every single time I make a web site, I dread fighting with the limitations of HTML and CSS, especially when I can't just require the latest and greatest browsers. And when I have everything as close to the way I want it to be as I can make it without going insane, I remember to test with MSIE and now Edge, and then I need all my mental strength to avoid damaging my equipment. Goddamnit Microsoft, the state of web browsing that comes out of your house makes me question whether you have any people in your employ that can actually write good code. Sincerely.

Re:Microsoft still makes "special" browsers

[Anonymous Coward]

Every single time I make a web site, I dread fighting with the limitations of HTML and CSS, especially when I can't just require the latest and greatest browsers.

Has it occurred to you that you're the problem here, not the browser?

Here's a http://motherfuckingwebsite.com/ renders just fine on Lynx. If you want to use CSS, you can also make a http://bettermotherfuckingwebsite.com/ that renders well on every browser written in the past 20 years.

Whatever happened to failing gracefully? I've been using the web since the days of "This Page Best Viewed At 800x600 In IE4 / Netscape 3". The problem, then as now, isn't the browsers, it was the web designers who decided to implement everything in Flash and Java because HTML 3.0 wasn't fun enough.

Re:Warning: Windows 10 is draining your battery

[ilsaloving]

Oh, on the contrary. It is very *well* concieved and implemented.

It was conceived to be privacy destroying nightmare, and they did a fantastic job building it.

What's next?

[WheezyJoe]

Will Microsoft pitch a warning that LibreOffice is stressing your hard drive more than a fresh copy of Office would? (click here to buy)

Howabout you plug in your smart phone to charge, and Windows replies with a message that Android nerds are sad losers with tight pants and bad hair, quick use this coupon and receive a lovely Lumia and join the Windows Winner's Revolution.
You heard it here first. Marketers gotta monetize.

Re:What's next?

[Black LED]

Honestly, it would not surprise me if Microsoft started doing things like that. Windows 10 is more of a marketing platform than an operating system.

Re:What's next?

[Opportunist]

Given the rather mediocre market share of Win10 after a VIOLENTLY aggressive campaign I think it's fair to say it sucks at being either.

Re:What's next?

[maharvey]

Yep, if your pants are tight, switching to Windows is a great way to shrink whatever may be causing the problem. Didn't know it also caused baldness though.

Re:What's next?

[Ol Olsoc]

I have not seen one person who happily switched from office to libre.

I have, because Microsoft's office isn't compatible with itself from Mac to PC, And not at all on Linux. Also problems with different versions.

Now that I am on the open Offices, every file works perfectly on all three platforms, even a freakin' Raspberry Pi for crissakes. It will even open older MS Office formats.

Maybe if you only ever have to do simple shit on identical Microsoft computers, you can use an inferior product like Microsoft's. I have work to do across platforms, and it simply is not capable of it. Out of a hundred, it doesn't even get out of the gates at 0.

And I have many dozens of people I've switched who are very happy with Libre.

Re:What's next?

[dbIII]

The old old old lesson being ignored here is that if you have multiple people working on something with very a very complex and obfiscated file format you use EXACTLY the same software. Using MS Office95 when others used MS Office97 resulted in fuckups - rinse and repeat all the way up to the current version of MS Office.

If you come in contact with such files you need something in the place with the same version as the people who wrote it because it's not always backwards compatible either.
PDF was supposed to solve that but for some reason people keep sending invoices in a format where it's easy to write in your own price.

Re:What's next?

[lucm]

We're not talking about nuclear reactor plans here. This is just documents, we don't need pixel perfect. Yes if you open a MS-Word 97 document in BrokenOffice or LibreOffice it may get a little off here and there, but for the most part it will work.

The problem is that those alternatives suck compared to the original. Microsoft fails at creating high quality applications in general, but somehow for Word, Excel and PowerPoint they've hit the sweet spot. Just like the iPod; the competition never got it as good as the original. Anyone who says LibreOffice is a total piece of shit is wrong, but anyone who claims it offers a better user experience than Microsoft Office is a zealot or an idiot.

But see Microsoft also created Outlook (a true horror) and Apple created iTunes (total garbage), while open source projects created Krita and Netbeans and many oher applications that are better than most commercial alternatives. So you can never assume that something is better or worse because of who made it.

Re:What's next?

[dbIII]

The problem is that those alternatives suck compared to the original

Seriously? Have you used star/open/libreoffice any time since 1998 and compared it with things like the graphing and various arbitrary limits in MS Excel for example?

better user experience than Microsoft Office is a zealot or an idiot

Or they just prefer the different interface, different defaults or the different way it handles things like graphing. Are people really "zealots" to prefer the old MS Office interface with a menu or the libreoffice with a menu to the new flat and tabbed MS Office with IMHO a vastly inferior "user experience". It's certainly more time consuming than the menu interface. I've got a lot of users that LOVE MS Office and would never consider using anything else but HATE the Win10 flat interface even though they have got used to the ribbon.

Re:What's next?

[Bert64]

People are used to the interface, used to the bugs and the arbitrary limits...
They won't like a program which has a slightly different interface, they will complain loudly about any bugs they encounter because they've not learned how to work around them. Same with arbitrary limits that they're not previously used to.

Re:What's next?

[Ol Olsoc]

Maybe those dozens of "satisfied" people lie to you because you're clearly not in touch wih reality and now that you've dragged them down in your pit of bad software you're on radio silence for them. And while you're here, talking about inferior products, oblivious that the seed of discontent and misery shoveled down the throat of people is bound to grow into crops of hate, they're planning their revenge.

Hell, you talk purdier than I do! So Sparky, what's your solution to the need for cross platform compatibility in office functions?

Re:What's next?

[Ol Olsoc]

We're not talking about nuclear reactor plans here. This is just documents, we don't need pixel perfect.

Ahh, there we go. You have made yourself quite clear Your bar is set around 2 or so.

Yes if you open a MS-Word 97 document in BrokenOffice or LibreOffice it may get a little off here and there, but for the most part it will work.

I made a mistake, You are so beholden to Microsoft that you accept failure You have no bar.

The problem is that those alternatives suck compared to the original.

I have old microsoft doc files that won't even open up in newer versions, yet show up pretty as you please in OO or AO. What the hell kind of Bizzarro world do you live in where the application that doesn't work is superior, and the application that saves yer sorry backside does, but that makes it suck?

Microsoft fails at creating high quality applications in general, but somehow for Word, Excel and PowerPoint they've hit the sweet spot.

If you define "sweet Spot" as working only on the same version, everyone using the same version, that you do not need historical documents, and you only work on one platform, it is adequate.

And that's really great work if you can get it. Some of us however, have historical documents to access, we have documents across a large number of versions and different originating softwares. Microsoft office is a complete non-starter there. Anyone who says LibreOffice is a total piece of shit is wrong,

Yet you wrote:

The problem is that those alternatives suck compared to the original.

Way to be consistent Sparky! Which one is it?

but anyone who claims it offers a better user experience than Microsoft Office is a zealot or an idiot.

Or needs cross platform compatibility. Or needs to open many versions of documents, from different sources and software.

I don't mean to be cruel, but seriously my good man, You need to get this through yer brain pan, cuz sumpin ain't clickin'. Some of us need Office applications that do not restrict themselves to one platform and one platform only. There are office Applications that reproduce flawlessly across Windows, OSX, and Linux platforms, and Microsoft office simply does not do that, so it is a total failure at that, no matter what you might think.

Re:What's next?

[Ol Olsoc]

Seriously? Have you used star/open/libreoffice any time since 1998 and compared it with things like the graphing and various arbitrary limits in MS Excel for example?

I suspect that lucm might be like the guy that complains about how there aren't any drivers for Linux, which is another 1998 problem. It happens in here, just like the people who complain about the Mac single button mouse, of which I haven't used one since around 1998.

As always, when we get into complaining about problems from 15-20 years ago, I ask why Windows 1.0 sucked so badly.

And so many of these arguments are made from a monoculture persepctive. If you only work on Windows, if your production is never going to be accessed again, Microsoft Office might be a decent tool for you. But it isn't a monoculture world any more

Re:What's next?

[Ol Olsoc]

I have, because Microsoft's office isn't compatible with itself from Mac to PC

Of course it is, I have done it many times. Show me a file that is compatible with one and not the other.

Obviously I can't show you a specific file, but PowerPoint was not good at going across platform. When we had PowerPoints that were originally on a PC, but being shown on a Mac, we had to run and re-run them to get rid of the bugs. We had problems with images, as some of the incoming images in either docs or PP would be CMYK jpegs, ( I have no idea why some did that) but the Mac Version of Office would only show RGB jpegs. And it was an office problem, because you could open the individual files in Photoshop or Preview, and they'd work. Page formatting was all messed up as well - often while using the exact same font, it would show up differently, splitting pages

We also had a lot of issues with documents in general, from fonts to tabs and borders.

Re: What's next?

[Ol Olsoc]

He won't because he can't because he made it up.

Out of whole cloth no doubt. I just responded with some of the Windows to Mac MSO problems.

Re:What's next?

[Ol Olsoc]

I had assumed the cross-incompatibility issues had mostly gone away in the late 90s / early 2000s - is that a bad assumption?

The last time I had used Microsoft Office was in 2012, and it still had those issues then.

Personally I was happy to escape to libre-office just because it (a) worked well and (b) let me escape the damn ribbon interface! (yes yes I know it is just a pictorial equivalent of a menu for most purposes, I just happen to find a list of words easier to parse a textual index than a random jumble of icons spewed across the screen.

I had to use at times both the menu style and ribbon interfaces. I got reasonably proficient in the Ribbon, and it was simply slower, and for all the reasons you gave.

Re:What's next?

[beastofburdon]

Fuck off troll.

Re:What's next?

[lucm]

I have no idea what bar you're talking about but from the look of it, you based your logic on doubtful anecdotes like this:

I have old microsoft doc files that won't even open up in newer versions, yet show up pretty as you please in OO or AO.

which are clear signs that you're either lying or that you're having a bad case of cognitive dissonance.

If you had made the point that for you MS-Office is not worth the extra price tag compared to free alternatives, or that you refuse to use proprietary software, that would have been valid points. But instead you're saying that those free alternatives are better and that they even open Word documents that Word cannot open, so clearly you're a zealot or a buffoon.

There's plenty of cases where FOSS products are better than commercial alternatives, but word processing and spreadsheets are not one of them.

Re:What's next?

[lucm]

Hell, you talk purdier than I do!

This is correct, even when you're not dumbing down your language on purpose.

So Sparky, what's your solution to the need for cross platform compatibility in office functions?

Is calling me "Sparky" some kind of insult? That's so cute! Care to share where you're from? Somewhere in the third world I guess?

Re:What's next?

[Ol Olsoc]

Obviously I can't show you a specific file

What do you mean "obviously" you can't, how technologically incompetent are you?

Don't be a dumbass. I'm not going to send some AC files - this is slashdot. So how the sweet baby jezzus am I goung to tell you anything? You have a MAC and a PC both with MS Office and AO or another version? A large format printer, and data projector and files from random other people with different versions of MS Office on them?

I already pointed out specific problems MS Offoce has in another post. Believe or do not believe, a fuck is not given, dear coward.

You see, this is an issue that a lot of shillboys have. I used every aspect of MS Office on a daily basis, up until 2012. I suspect that many of you use one or two functions. That's why I also had a copy of OO on hand, so I could open the doc files that MS Office couldn't. Once again, believe or do not, Do not care.

Re:What's next?

[Ol Olsoc]

Hell, you talk purdier than I do!

This is correct, even when you're not dumbing down your language on purpose.

So Sparky, what's your solution to the need for cross platform compatibility in office functions?

Is calling me "Sparky" some kind of insult? That's so cute! Care to share where you're from? Somewhere in the third world I guess?

Dude, you spent another post calling me a liar, so your thin skin with me calling you "sparky" is noted.

Look my good man. You really should be on Youtube comments, because they are very fitting.

That, you may take as an insult. Good day sir. Reply if you like, I don't see the point in conversing with people that call me a liar.

Re:What's next?

[lucm]

I suspect that lucm might be like the guy that complains about how there aren't any drivers for Linux, which is another 1998 problem.

I don't know where that comes from but you're wrong again. I use mostly Fedora at home and it's been a long time since I've had driver issues.

Re:What's next?

[lucm]

Well stop making shit up about being able to open Word documents in LibreOffice but not in Word and people may take you more seriously.

Re:What's next?

[dbIII]

which are clear signs that you're either lying or that you're having a bad case of cognitive dissonance

I have also experienced that as have many others as you should know if you have been supporting MS Office for a long period of time. I have a VM with MS Office97 on it and another with the version from 2000 to deal with legacy documents that fail with the current version mostly for macro related reasons. Others I have recovered information enough information from using "strings". Others I've just opened up in open/libreoffice. If you look at web forums you'll see I'm not the only one.

free alternatives are better and that they even open Word documents that Word cannot open

No he is actually correct. It appears it was a low priority for MS to support some earlier versions of their file formats so we've ended up with the situation where another application still supports something abandoned by Microsoft.

Re: What's next?

[Ol Olsoc]

You still ain't shown anything to backup your incredible claims.

https://support.office.com/en-...

Office for Mac doesn't run correctly within itself. https://support.microsoft.com/...

Some ways to help - but not a complete list. http://www.officeformachelp.co...

A bad answer, but more problems http://answers.microsoft.com/e... As they say "most likely" That will take care of some issues but not all.

http://www.walternelson.com/dr...

Here you are told to do exactly what an above link tells you not to do http://presentationsoft.about....

Just general things https://support.microsoft.com/...

This one is cute - directly from Microsoft and I quote> "However, high compatibility workbooks/projects can be achieved", as well as "There may well be a solution or workaround." Hozabout that? High compatibility is not compatibility, and workarounds are not compatibility. http://answers.microsoft.com/e...

And with Office 365 in particular http://answers.microsoft.com/e...

So anyhow there is about as much as I'm willing to do for you, coward. Any more, and do your own research Which of course is a non starter isn't it?

Right from Microsoft, they speak of it's issues. Take it up with them. Sparky.

Meantime, I'm using a suite that doesn't have those issues.

Re:Warning: Windows 10 is draining your battery

[chipschap]

Well ... seriously, on my Asus Zenbook running Linux Mint 17.2, I get 10 hours of battery life if I'm not running Chrome but that goes down to 4 hours if I leave Chrome up in the background.

I have to agree that Chrome is a battery eater; Firefox is a lot easier on my battery, but not running processes I don't need is even better.

I don't have Windows installed so I can't compare with Edge.

Re:Warning: Windows 10 is draining your battery

[darkpixel2k]

Chrome may be a bigger part of that than Linux.

I've an i5/4/128gb SP3 which is still running Windows 8.1. Recently I got annoyed at the modern IE so threw on Chrome and have been using it as the default browser for the last few weeks and have noticed a similar drop in battery life.

I noticed the same thing. If I run with ~170 tabs open in Chrome, it sucks battery life and memory.

If I run with ~25 tabs in IE, it crashes.

Re:Warning: Windows 10 is draining your battery

[Anonymous Coward]

Whoah, wait, Edge is integrated into Windows? Didn't we already go down this path with IE way back when? ugh :(

Re:Warning: Windows 10 is draining your battery

[Christian Smith]

Warning: Windows 10 is draining your battery by being a poorly conceived and implemented operating system. You should install Linux immediately.

Actually, due to what I think is a gtk3/glib3 bug, firefox regularly spins up the CPU, heating up the machine to the point it burns my lap, as well as making firefox perform poorly, for extended periods of time. Have also noticed it in other applications, such as Eclipse based applications (Lotus Notes for my sins) but it makes my Ubuntu installations very battery hostile.

What if you're Plugged In?

[WheezyJoe]

Has anyone seen what happens if you're not using a battery? Like on a desktop? Maybe Windows hits you with carbon footprint statistics? You could slow the melting of the icecaps if you'd just suck up and use Edge.

Edging will preserve precious battery fluids

[Anonymous Coward]

Edging is very popular these days I hear.

Re:Warning: Windows 10 is draining your battery

[omnichad]

already running in the background

Taking up space in RAM doesn't use battery power. Eating CPU cycles does. Something sitting in the background doing nothing doesn't need those CPU cycles. On the other hand, Chrome really does have more of a problem with that than Edge. Edge's problem is the UI.

Re:Warning: Windows 10 is draining your battery

[vux984]

Warning: Windows 10 is draining your battery by being a poorly conceived and implemented operating system. You should install Linux immediately.

And yet, I've found linux consistently drained my battery faster. Perhaps due to failures of the laptops to adhere to ACPI standards properly, perhaps due to driver issues with the video, and networking ...

Doesn't really matter what the why is, what matters is the unit runs out of juice faster. Recent windows releases have been surprisingly good at sipping battery.

Cue another round of "it's not done until.."

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm fully expecting this to come true. Microsoft can't claim Edge is more efficient unless it's true, that would be false advertising. So, I'd suggest people start looking for clues that Windows starts doing funny things which eats battery whenever Chrome or Firefox is loaded. Wait and see, it'll be Lotus 1-2-3 all over again.

Re:Warning: Windows 10 is draining your battery

[Leslie43]

It's VERY dependent on the laptop and whether or not you install any power management, which most distros (even Ubuntu) seem to skip.

My Lenovo X220 does almost the same with Windows or Linux once I install power management, I lose around 10% compared to Windows while using Cinnamon. I mention that because it also depends on the desktop environment (DE) and browser you use, newer flashier DE's are going to use more power. As much as I love Cinnamon, it does use more power than say XFCE or LXDE, I expect by switching to one of them I'd be within a few percent of Windows.

Depends on the industry

[tepples]

I don't have to use Google. In fact, I use DuckDuckGo instead. I pretty much have to use Windows for business reasons. You see the difference?

It depends on what industry you're in. In some industries, you can get away with Wine. In others, such as Android application development, you need to use at least some Google services.

Re:Depends on the industry

[Bert64]

You don't need to use google services to do Android development, you need to use their services if you want to develop against their optional libraries hosted ontop of android or if you want to publish into their play store...
But then again, you have to use a mac to develop iphone apps and you have to use windows to develop windows mobile apps.

Re:Depends on the industry

[tepples]

You don't need to use google services to do Android development, you need to use their services if you want to develop against their optional libraries hosted ontop of android or if you want to publish into their play store

In practice, most users of Android phones and tablets in use in North America and Europe check Google Play Store first if not only. If your app is of use mostly to Fire tablet owners, you can publish in Amazon Appstore. If your app is for hardcore users of free software, you can publish in F-Droid. If your app's text is in Chinese, you can publish in Chinese stores. Otherwise, you do "want to publish into their play store".

Re:Next up: patch 1234 "updates" users to edge

[tepples]

Then compile your own Chromium and Firefox. If they block that, then as a side effect, it'll also block use of Visual Studio to build and test Windows Store apps for Windows 10 and Windows Phone.

Edge is a Blight

[Ralgha]

Edge is even worse that Internet Exploder, which I didn't think was possible until they did it. I wouldn't use Edge even if it CHARGED my battery.

You're right. I should've said 'spartan'.

[mmell]

Trident was the old IE rendering engine. Not to be confused, at least spartan can pass the acid tests (I think?).

Consider the previous comment suitably modified.

Old dog, old tricks

[duckintheface]

In the late 1990s Microsoft was found guilty of violations of the anti-trust laws for using their monopoly in one market (operating systems) to leverage market share in another market (browsers). Through a number a dirty tactics, Microsoft stole the browser market from Netscape and avoided the creation of an independent, OS-neutral, platform for running applications.

Now, twenty years later, Microsoft up to its old tricks. Using the Windows 10 market share to leverage its browser. I'm thinking the Department of Justice might want to take a look at the Microsoft consent decree from their last conviction.

Re: Old dog, old tricks

[ArmoredDragon]

Regardless, this is really bad form on the part of Microsoft and I wouldn't be surprised if Mozilla, Google, and possibly opera end up suing Microsoft for libel over this.

Re:Old dog, old tricks

[whargoul]

Who are you trying to kid? Neither is the good guy.

Re:Old dog, old tricks

[amiga3D]

If you look at Microsoft's campaign donations pre and post monopoly conviction you'll see what happened. They used every dirty trick in the book before the conviction and made almost zero campaign donations. Post conviction they went back to dirty tricks but began handing out heaps of cash to our elected officials. Strangely no one at the justice department seems to notice the dirty tricks anymore. I'm sure there is no connection though.

Re:Old dog, old tricks

[Anonymous Coward]

> where Google refuses to allow any YouTube apps on Windows Phones

That is not true. Microsoft wrote an app that abused YouTube's terms of service, so Google asked for it to be removed. Later it was reinstated without the ability to download and save videos, which was the issue.

There are several YouTube apps available on Windows Phone so you are completely wrong.

> Microsoft is not the bad guy,

Yes, they were. Microsoft knew YouTube's terms of service and deliberately abused them.

Re:Old dog, old tricks

[unrtst]

These are the new days, where Google refuses to allow any YouTube apps on Windows Phones. But Microsoft puts its apps everywhere.

OMFG. Are you fucking kidding me? Where's Microsoft Office for Ubuntu (or any linux distro)? They are not putting their apps everywhere, and they're doing the same shit they've always done. They took the time to get some bastard version of Ubuntu running in Windows 10, but all Linux gets is a really broken alpha version of Skype.
You can argue that they don't need to do that all you want, but then there is no reason Google/YouTube should support Windows Phones either - that's an even smaller market than Linux.

This warning thing is in bad form. I don't know how they managed to get away with the windows 10 update stuff getting forced down everyones throats, but they have thus far, so this will probably stay in place (or get worse) for a long time.

Re:Old dog, old tricks

[Joce640k]

Have you actually tried changing the search provider in Edge?

Microsoft is using wome strange new definition of the word "easy" that I was previously unaware of.

Re: Old dog, old tricks

[Ayanami_R]

This. They really aren't bullshitting. Personal experience, but on my laptop hands down Chrome rapes batteries vs edge and opera. FF is better, but not by much.

Also chrome is still terrible for HIDPI and touch support. Opera and FF fail at this as well, but at least I can somewhat use them with touch.

Re:Old dog, old tricks

[Ol Olsoc]

Have you actually tried changing the search provider in Edge?

Microsoft is using wome strange new definition of the word "easy" that I was previously unaware of.

Nothing about Edge works well. Its a steaming wet pile of asparagus pee.

Re:Old dog, old tricks

[Anonymous Coward]

Netscape lost their market share all by themselves. Before it imploded it became a bug ridden and bloated piece of garbage. And MS was under no obligation to make their browser work on other OS's. They gained market dominance because no one put forth the effort to compete against them. Windows was horrible and almost unusable in the early days. Apple took on the challenge of competing with MS but their business model made their products more expensive. Apple lost the business user market to MS because of the cost differential and a lack of 3rd party hardware compatibility.

A great many of potential competitors at the time sold their application technology to MS. Lotus 1-2-3, Word Perfect, and even the Borland application development tool sets had a good share of the market and they lost it all to MS because it was easier to take the money and run.

MS entered the PC revolution starting from scratch. Apple did the same. There was nothing stopping anyone else from devising another competing technology.

And being a monopoly is not against the law. It is against the law to use their monopoly to strangle competition. However, MS didn't use their monopoly to control the market because for that to happen you actually need a competitor to strangle. MS pumped money into Apple so they could claim their was a competitor who offered different hardware and software solutions and with the two ecosystems that were totally independent of one another.

The people wailing about the MS monopoly basically wanted a do over because they were late to the game. Now things have evolved and their are alternatives to MS but a lot of people would rather stand around berating MS instead of using the choices they have to build any computer environment they want.

Re:Old dog, old tricks

[rtb61]

M$ putting apps anywhere is exactly the problem. So why the fuck does edge use less power than 'ALL' the other browsers, quite simple folks, elements of it all running all of the fucking time, hence when the edge GUI kicks off and well, of course the windows anal probe communications are already running and hence the edge just uses them. All the other browsers of course run of top of edge and hence edge is sucking up power all of the fucking time, use your chosen browser or not, just as the anal probe is running all of the time, user your chosen browser or not.

Want to chose an energy efficient browser for a start do not run Windows anal probe 10, running components of edge in the background, go choose your own browser, any one will do, on your own chosen Linux distribution, any one will ignore and ignore the bullshitting, lying jack arse fuckheads from M$ (this kind of marketing tactic is just so offensive and lives where the crappy cooked program to scam software testing suites belong).

Edge is the power troll, running all of the time, skulking on windows anal probe 10 sucking up your battery life whether you are using it or not. Trollish comment to match trollish marketing ;D.

Re:Old dog, old tricks

[mindwhip]

Google may now be a bad guy. This dosn't exclude Microsoft from (still) being a bad guy as well. There may be no actual good guys left given the evil tendencies even some of the big Linux distros are showing...

Re:Old dog, old tricks

[Anonymous Coward]

True, the Win10 OS is running Edge browser components at the background if you dig deeper into the internals of Win10. I won't be surprised if there are codes inside Win10 OS which checks if (foreground_browser != Edge) bat_drain;

Re: Old dog, old tricks

[dbIII]

Chrome has a thread per tab. The price of that performance improving choice is your battery life.

Re: Old dog, old tricks

[Bert64]

The difference here is that there is widespread competition, so noone is forced to use Apple devices, you don't encounter websites which are only compatible with apple devices etc.

Re:Old dog, old tricks

[Solandri]

Let me dust off a quote from one of my posts on various forums back in the 1990s:

"The best solution is to break up Microsoft into two companies: An OS company which does nothing but produce Windows, not favoring any software. And an Applications company which makes software like Office, IE, etc., not favoring any operating system."

Re: Old dog, old tricks

[Z00L00K]

There are degrees in hell.

Google is just a little bad compared to Microsoft.

Re: Old dog, old tricks

[Billly Gates]

So do IE 11 and Edge.

That's not what causes battery drain. JavaScript and CPU level threading and usage can be tuned. For example tickless schedulers can make a big difference with minimal impacts to performance.

The 7 loyalists may want to deny it but 8 and later are great with portables due to changes like above. JavaScript can be tuned too.

Re:Old dog, old tricks

[ultranova]

Through a number a dirty tactics, Microsoft stole the browser market from Netscape

Not if memory serves: Netscape Navigator 4 was such awful garbage that even IE was better.

Re:Old dog, old tricks

[iampiti]

There's no good guy and no bad guy. They're just companies and if sometimes seem better or worse is because of the amount of power they have in those instants.
Right now, Microsoft has a ridiculous marketshare on mobiles so if they don't want their software and services to drift towards irrelevance they must make them available where the people is i.e.: Android and iOS. That's the only reason they're releasing so many software for those plaforms now

Re:Old dog, old tricks

[DriveDog]

Resources that browsers use depend on website design. There are some areas in which Edge won't beat the others on power efficiency, and those might be the areas that MS's own websites avoid in preference to those design features offering Edge the most advantage. This is clearly anti-trust, and this is what should be investigated. But that MS was never broken up into Internet, Applications, and OS businesses illustrates just how unenforced anti-trust laws are.

Re:Old dog, old tricks

[eaglesrule]

That such an insightful comment could be marked Troll is in itself quite telling, especially considering MS Win10 forced upgrade shenanigans.

Re: Old dog, old tricks

[bat21]

It has a process per tab. Firefox has a thread per tab. There's a big difference

Re:Old dog, old tricks

[cwsumner]

If you look at Microsoft's campaign donations pre and post monopoly conviction you'll see what happened. ...

My slashdot is set to show messages rate one and above. This message shows fully expanded, at 2 troll.

Does that mean that on SlashDot, the rating "Troll" is a -positive- rating? ... but I'm sure it is just a bug... ;-)

(p.s., the message is correct, from what I remember.)

Re: Old dog, old tricks

[dbIII]

Extra threads do not consume more power, unless those threads are actually doing work

Yes.
They are preemptively keeping pages up to date in case the user clicks on that tab. Not a bug but a choice which is fine on a desktop but sucks running on batteries.

Re:Old dog, old tricks

[exomondo]

Oh for god sake in this day and age where we have so many viable options for personal computing in both hardware and software there are still people whining about how one company's notification about how their browser is better is so much more "evil" than the banner on their competitors website that says their browser is better. Its like all the effort that has gone into making Linux a viable desktop alternative over the years has been a waste, every time the slightest thing happens in the Windows world the so-called geeks fly off the handle because after all this time they're still using whatever Microsoft's latest Windows is. It's a notification popup, if that is really that bad then use another operating system.

Re: Old dog, old tricks

[JimB]

I remember Netscape not running on Windows, but I don't remember any problems on SunOS. Can you remember details (please)?

Re:Old dog, old tricks

[exomondo]

OMFG. Are you fucking kidding me? Where's Microsoft Office for Ubuntu (or any linux distro)?

You can use it through MS Office online. Why bother to create a native product for a platform that virtually nobody uses? They create a native product for Windows, OS X, iOS and Android but building native clients for Ubuntu or Solaris or FreeBSD doesn't make sense so they offer the web client. Microsoft aren't alone in doing this, companies like Adobe and Autodesk are the major players in terms of content creation applications and also target those platforms but not the minor players because it isn't worth the effort.

Minor players in the desktop market are much like Meego, Windows Phone and webOS in the mobile space, they are good operating systems but they were late to the game and don't offer any compelling, disruptive features that would entice users - and developers - to switch from the incumbents or even to expend effort to support them.

Re:Old dog, old tricks

[unrtst]

OMFG. Are you fucking kidding me? Where's Microsoft Office for Ubuntu (or any linux distro)?

You can use it through MS Office online. Why bother to create a native product for a platform that virtually nobody uses?

Whoosh! That's my whole point! The guy I replied to said:

These are the new days, where Google refuses to allow any YouTube apps on Windows Phones. But Microsoft puts its apps everywhere.

Him expecting google to make a youtube app for windows phone is exactly like expecting microsoft to make a native port of Office for one or more linux distro's. Google has a web version of youtube (which IS the primary version of youtube, and the app is just an extra add on bonus they added later).

Re:Old dog, old tricks

[exomondo]

Him expecting google to make a youtube app for windows phone is exactly like expecting microsoft to make a native port of Office for one or more linux distro's.

Except if you read what he wrote he isn't expecting Google to make a Youtube app for Windows Phone at all. Show me where he said that.

When you read what you responded to (and even quoted) you will see he said: "Google refuses to allow any YouTube apps on Windows Phones" and the reason he said that is because Microsoft (not Google) did make a Youtube app for Windows Phone but Google didn't allow that app to use their Youtube APIs.

Re:Old dog, old tricks

[allo]

The EU sued for bundling different office applications and now they are bundling a browser - what's like a whole OS in the current html5-webapp internet - with their operation system, discouraging users from using another one.

Lol, no, really?

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

Headline should be: "Maker Of Edge Browser Says Don't Use Those Other Browsers"

Re:Warning: Windows 10 is draining your battery

[Opportunist]

While right in theory I would not cross that bridge on Win10. An OS that causes network traffic when nothing is (supposedly) communicating is not necessarily consuming no CPU time when nothing is (supposedly) doing anything.

Linux Kills My Battery Too

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux cuts my battery life in half, compared to all versions of Windows from XP forward.
It also makes the laptop unbearably hot.

Re:Linux Kills My Battery Too

[uncle slacky]

Have you tried running TLP? http://linrunner.de/en/tlp/tlp.html

Re:Warning: Windows 10 is draining your battery

[AK Marc]

I've found the same. 20+ tabs, open all the time and Chrome drains battery, everyone else crashes. Though I haven't used Opera in a while. They were first and best with tabs, for about 5 years. I have no idea how they are now. But IE has never gotten tabs right. They still don't have an option to reliably open your last browser session.

Re:Warning: Windows 10 is draining your battery

[thegarbz]

I expect most of it is because Edge does a half arsed job of rendering web pages.

An almost blank screen uses less CPU than a multi-media page.

Re:Consistency people

[lgw]

Yes, I only see those google ads when I go to any google site, ot on TV, or buses, or billboards, but not my dreams!

Time for major websites to warn users about Win10

[iamacat]

Google, Yahoo and Apple should pop up similar bubbles on their websites, truthfully warning about everything wrong with Windows 10 and recommending alternatives.

Is Edge any good as a Web browser?

[iamacat]

I don't watch 1080p Netflix in a Web browser for 7 or even 4 hours nonstop. I use a dedicated app or a TV. I don't browse Web for that long either. So how good is Edge for regular, everyday Web browsing? Will it help me avoid autopsy videos which are my pet peeve? Save a hierarchy of pages for offline reading? Anything at all useful?

FTC Failed to Address MS

[BrendaEM]

The Federal Trade Commission should have addressed MS as a monopoly a long time ago, when they stole its encryption, stole it media player code, stole its networking, and stabbed IBM in the back...a second time.

Of course MS is warning about competitive browsers, they are above the law.

Re:When I do this, my battery drains...

[donaldm]

http://fakeupdate.net/win10/in...

My goodnes it even works on Linux.

Re:Warning: Windows 10 is draining your battery

[donaldm]

Same experience here but on Macbook Pro 2015. OX 10.11 approx 9 hours, Windows 10 approx 8.5 hours, Ubuntu 16.04 approx 5.5 hours.

I know slashdot is full of anti microsoft types but the mis-information in the comments is stupid. Im not sure if the posters genuinely believe what they post but are utterly clueless or if its just denial.

Got a desktop which runs Linux (ie. no battery except for motherboard) so I don't care.

Got a laptop which runs Linux and most of the time I have it plugged into the mains so again, I don't care. Even hibernate works fine so battery life is a non-event for me.

Doh!

[lucm]

That isn't anti-competitive because Apple made the product specifically for its browser. If there were 20 different manufacturers making iPhones, it would be a different matter.

Yes, this is known as the "No Homers Club" rule; as long as there's only one of them it's okay.

Re:Warning: Windows 10 is draining your battery

[hrimhari]

I'd have loved to see Chrome and Firefox popping up such notices in retaliation :)

new windows 10 message

[gadget junkie]

"you've changed from windows 7 into THIS ?!?!?! ROFL!!"

Well there you go.

[Rainwulf]

Its not your computer anymore. You don't have the choice anymore. Its microsoft's way. You are on their domain, subject to their policies, reselling your search data, subject to their whims and desires. You are produce. You are no longer a consumer, you are even LESS then that now.

Bravo!

Maybe with adblock

[Vyse of Arcadia]

I might believe that if I didn't already block ads in Firefox. Edge happily displays all those ads and the oodles of extra javascript that comes with them. In my experience, that makes Edge drain my battery faster than Firefox + uBlock.

Maybe make a better browser

[Billly Gates]

This is 2016 and there is no excuse to release a buggy browser with no extension support.

Edge is more like IE 6. It crashes and is more of a prototype browser that is unfinished. It shouldn't have been released as IE 11 is better.

Edge and 10 can self corrupt as well and give random RPC .DLL errors too with the earlier builds. It is not enterprise ready yet either. The later builds starting in May seem to prevent this problem.

Corporate users need to keep updates on to fix the bugs which makes them uncomfortable.

I am sticking with Chrome and IE 11 for my work on 10 at home. Sorry, but don't release your shit before it is ready. Vista, IE 6, and ME should have been examples of rapid releasing and fix later and you see how the market reacts

Re:Maybe make a better browser

[Bob the Super Hamste]

What the hell is it doing making RPC calls or is that just because of how things in windows are bundled?

Yes that is a serious question as the only thing I still have the joy of dealing with that uses RPC is some boxes that still use NFS and those are ancient machines that I want to go set on fire out in the swamp behind my work.

Re:Maybe make a better browser

[Billly Gates]

Spying of course :-)

But all of Windows does this I would assume as NT uses both a server and a workstation service together. Also MS is known to integrate things for stuff like sharepoint to work better with IE

Re:Warning: Windows 10 is draining your battery

[uncle slacky]

TLP is what you need! http://linrunner.de/en/tlp/tlp.html

Re:Warning: Windows 10 is draining your battery

[Bert64]

It's not worse, it's actually slightly better the problem is that a lot of ACPI implementations are designed specifically for windows and don't follow the specs properly (whereas linux does).
Chromebooks are designed to run linux (ie they dont have non standard power management designed for windows) and generally have very good battery life

Re:Warning: Windows 10 is draining your battery

[Bert64]

It usually seems to be due to the ACPI problems, as chromebooks generally have very good battery life.

WTF

[brunnegd]

Tell MS to Golf Foxtrot Yankee.

Re:Warning: Windows 10 is draining your battery

[Billly Gates]

Windows 7 does that too

Re:Warning: Windows 10 is draining your battery

[cwsumner]

Why is this marked Insightful? Processes doing nothing consume no CPU time and thus no battery power. Having Edge "running" in the background thus has no saying whatsoever. This is pretty basic OS knowledge! Hand in your geek cards immediately!

If the processes that are "doing nothing" are actually running timer ticks to check for events and conditions, then they are using CPU cycles and battery power.

And way too many application programs do this, as though the programmers never did understand event-driven operation. Even the M$ app writers. (Or maybe it is the driver writers. But the drivers allow both, usually.)

It's as though the app writers could not stand to lose the "spotlight"!

Above by bat21 is correct

[dbIII]

Yes that instead of what I wrote. On linux with top or ps you can see a large number of chrome processes if you have a few tabs open.

A mistake was made.doc

[lucm]

Maybe I was wrong. I've worked with Office since the days it came on something like 25 floppy disks, up to the latest versions that come with the Office365 deal (the one with desktop licenses) and I've never seen that. I don't do tech support though, and thinking about it I kinda remember a time when Microsoft was blocking "unsafe" stuff right and left, so I guess I stand corrected.

This being said, I've also worked with StarOffice and most of its later incarnations (OpenOffice, LibreOffice), as well as WordPerfect since the MS-DOS days, and Amipro and all that, so whenever someone says those work better than MS-Office (other than the emergency scenario you describe) I can confidently call bullshit.

Anyways I still think the other guy was lying, he just got lucky that the things he made up do happen.

Re:A mistake was made.doc

[dbIII]

You are replying to someone who had to learn how to write macros for MS Excel three times because the entire language used for them changed three times.
Backwards compatibility is not a valued feature in MS Office and various measures to "clean out cruft" have meant that all Open/libreoffice had to do to have better compatibility is not throw things away.



I still stand by the very old lesson from the days before MS Word was integrated with Excel etc - if multiple people are working on stuff with the same non-standard file format and appearance matters then they had all better be using the same software and the same version of that software. Not long ago there were a ridiculous number of fuckups in my workplace due to MS Office 2010/2013 incompatibility.

whenever someone says those work better than MS-Office

Depending on the situation they often do - graphing in MS Excel sucks in a technical environment and the current UI for MS Office adds a lot of time consuming busywork that did not previously exist in menu driven UIs.