Slashdot Mirror
A Design Defect Is Plaguing Many iPhone 6 and 6 Plus Units (iphonehacks.com)
Evan Selleck, writing for iPhoneHacks (edited and condensed): For many iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus owners out there in the wild, a design defect is apparently causing some huge issues. Gadget repair firm iFixit has reported about a flaw dubbed "Touch Disease", which it claims is cropping up. With it, owners of the phones are experiencing, to start, a gray bar that appears at the very top of their display. And, for many others, the display itself becomes unresponsive to touch, or less responsive overall. In the blog post, iFixit says the problem stems from issues with the touchscreen controller chip, which is soldered onto the logic board. Interestingly enough, iFixit posits that the same internal design decisions that led to "Endgate" might be causing the issue leading to Touch Disease, too: "In both the iPhone 6 and 6 Plus, the Touch IC chips connect to the logic board via an array of itty-bitty solder balls -- "like a plate resting on marbles," Jessa explains. Over time, as the phone flexes or twists slightly during normal use, those solder balls crack and start to lose contact with the board. "At first, there may be no defect at all. Later you might notice that the screen is sometimes unresponsive, but it is quick to come back with a hard reset," Jessa explains. "As the crack deepens into a full separation of the chip-board bond, the periods of no touch function become more frequent."
bending it wrong.
So that you buy the iPhone 7.
The owners are holding it wrong
Sounds like apple could use some mechanical engineers to stiffen up the case by design.
Skip to 13:00:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Considering the huge price of these things (love my iPhone 6+ anyway) let's hope Apple will offer some solution. Depends upon the number of affected devices I guess. Mine has been slightly bent regularly in my jeans pocket and is still working fine (no "touch disease yet"). Too old for a fix?
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
I always knew it was a bad choice to leave your phone in your back pocket and sit down with it.
I would like to hear what Apple fan boys especially in the media have to say about this. There's one particular Apple zealot who wrote this , praising Apple's design as still the best. I will wait for his take.
I was blaming this on the most recent IOS update. I wonder if it's correlated. however. If the sold connection to the Touch IC is flaky does that introduce lots of spurious signals causing it to consume lots of power? (I'm down from about 2.5days per full charge to a little over 1 -- and I haven't added any apps.)
Got a refurb phone from iCare+ for another issue. It developed that problem intermittently within 2 weeks. Took it to an Apple store but it wasn't happening then so they wouldn't do anything but clearly knew the issue. Told me if it happened again to record a video of it. Within 3 seconds of me arriving home it happened and I grabbed a video. When I went back to the Apple store a different guy took a look at the video and in the first second or so said, "Yep, I've seen this happen before." and handed me a new phone.
Sample size 1, ancedote is not the singular form of data etc...
This is not the first time BGA packages have caused issues. The XBOX 360, and various video cards have had major BGA soldering issues.
Soldered on BGA is simply a tech that doesn't work. Consumers pay the price in products that don't work and aren't repairable without extreme and sometimes destructive methods.
From Bendgate to Bumpgate, all the way to the Endgate.
And soon to be a fifth, all in under two years. This last one only lasted about three weeks. While it hasn't cost me anything out-of-pocket, it does add up in time, about 2-3 hours for each instance when you include backing up/restoring, driving to the "genuis" bar, sitting around for my appointment, explaining the issue, having them check for water damage, etc. Thinking about moving to a Note7 due to the quality issues.
I've personally had 3 iPhone 4 & 4S's get the dreaded "wifi grayed out" issue where your wifi, bluetooth and gps stop working. It was so common that dozens of forum threads involved long discussions about it (you can still find them easily - and also on ebay devices with the problem) and even Apple had a page about it where they offered as a solution to "reset your network settings". Obviously this did nothing, as it was discovered the problem was the temperature sensor was malfunctioning and disabling the wireless module (which took down BT, GPS as well) and once your one year warranty was over you were out of luck with Apple. What's crazy is that the temperature sensor was not enabled with the shipping iOS of the iPhone 4 (possibly the iPhone 4S as well), but Apple enabled it from either iOS 5 or iOS 6 (I forget - but people not upgrading never had the problem), so they could disable it again if they wanted to. But they did not want to, my company purchased 3 iPhones for me because they were all failing the same way (after being used only in the office, sitting on a desk, occasionally debugging iOS apps), so it was good money for Apple.
Apple won't fix a widespread problem even if it is just a firmware update for them, so don't count on a solution (other than offering you the newest iPhone perhaps with a "generous 10% discount" if you are "lucky").
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
Something like this poses an interesting challenge. When you have to build a product that is not quite cheap enough to easily replace, but expensive enough to make it painful to do so, and has a shelf life of about 3 years, what design corners do you cut?
Back when computers of any kind were thousands of dollars, the answer was easy - engineer them to the max since people were paying good money for them and wanted them to last. This is how we get things like the IBM PC case made out of solid steel. Now the equation is flipped, because mobile phones get replaced so frequently. The problem is that you can't get around the fact that you're carrying a laptop in your pocket and it's not just a cheap throwaway toy. This is getting even more noticeable since carriers have pretty much abandoned subsidies and are passing more of the cost of the phone on to the consumer. The top end model is starting to touch that $1000 price point that makes people stop and think hard about replacement costs if they're not getting some deal from their phone carrier.
The Ball Grid Array is a Common IC Package. I doubt it is the Only one in the iPhone. Or any cell phone.
And soon to be a fifth, all in under two years. This last one only lasted about three weeks.
If indeed that is true I think the problem is most likely you, or more accurately something you are doing. While Apple does have issues with devices from time to time, the probability of a single person have 5 failed iPhones in two years due to (conveniently unspecified) quality problems is remote to say the least. I've known of people to break that many phones in a similarly short time span but that was a user error problem. If there was evidence of Apple having widespread quality issues I'd be the first to pile on but I just don't see the evidence for it here.
Good luck trying to get *any* cell phone without BGA chips in them. Or any electronics component, really - maybe a toaster.
To be honest, I agree with the above poster. Absent any specifics, I'd say the problem is you and how you treat the phone.
Physicists get Hadrons!
For years I heard the hype about how we are living in a Star Trek world because some nerds put a glue gun on a stepper motor. So where are the 3D printed solutions to this?
You're pretty dumb if you've had five devices fail from the same company in such a short span of time and still return to them. Bhahaha, bhahahaha. Too scared to not be one of the sheep?
When they made the 6 and 6+, Apple broke one of the most critical tenets of engineering: Form Follows Function, not the other way 'round. Thinner isn't always better. They made the 6 and 6+ trendy, hip and skinny -- and that broke the Function part of engineering.
I'm glad I still have my 5S, and when the time comes that it goes to cellphone heaven, I'll replace it with a new small phone. I'm so glad Apple is making one again. Fatter, shorter phones don't bend as much as a thin huge phone.
The "Civilized World" jumped the shark ca. 1973.
I had a dead 12" white g4 powerbook. This happened to the cpu. I figured I had nothing to lose, so I took out the mother board, wrapped all of it bu the cpu with aluminum foil. I put a tea light on the chip (it was about the same size) I fired it up figuring it would be a prayer to the computer gods, or part of a wake ceremony. Once everything cooled off the laptop worked, still does. I wonder if a little heated press could be made to heat up and re-seat the chip without letting it slide at all. Sounds like an aftermarket tool business if anyone wants to make it.
When I try a hard reset the screen only gets worse.
I love performing electronic repairs, although I do not have practice (and wonder how good I would be) on devices this small. However I do not see the economic feasibility... someone enlighten me.
Silence is a state of mime.
if there ever was a time Apple needed Steve Wozniak back, it's now. although i suspect it's too late.
I suppose it wouldn't be a stretch to assume that you're an imbecile based on your comment, but are you actually so stupid that you don't even know what a warranty is?
I do have specifics. The video in the referenced post explains the difference between the current models with this issue and the prior models--namely the lack of underfill and of a metal shield to provide rigidity over the affected chips. As for how I treat my phone, it's a smart phone, I treat it like one. It goes in my pocket. It comes out of my pocket. I set on my desk. I pick it up. Occasionally I knock it off my bedside table.
If it's truly this issue, you may be bending your phone or dropping it more than the average.
Are you storing your phone in your back pocket? Are you wearing tight jeans that is putting physical flex on the board? Sitting on the phone? If you are, you might be able to get them to last longer by avoiding those behaviors.
Note: I'm not defending Apple, or justifying their quality/phone/design. I'm just saying that, knowing what the cause is of this failure, a behavioral change could make a huge difference to your device longevity.
-=Lothsahn=-
I'd also strongly recommend Nexus devices over Note devices. You get much better software upgrades and security updates.
-=Lothsahn=-
FYI: BGA = Ball Grid Array,
"Ball Grid Array rework is one of the most challenging procedures performed at assembly facilities and repair depots around the world. " ---
http://www.circuitrework.com/f...
-- Each tock of the Planck clock is a new world and here we are still life. --
Hey, reboot it, back it up, do a fresh install. Oh, maybe it's dirty, clean it.
Try a hard reset. Soft reset? Reset reset?
Never seen that before. Hmmm...try patching it.
What version itunes? Try upgrading your mac too, then a full restore.
Bunch of hooey.
None of these things should cause a phone to fail in this manner, but no, I don't wear tight jeans, nor do I habitually sit on my phone. My phone is also in an Apple case. There's a real problem with the design of this phone as the video in the story illustrates.
It just works. Well sometimes... But we're Apple and you love us anyways!
Well, literally hundreds of millions of people (per year) buy iPhones (last 12 months was 215 million) and don't have this problem.
I could see you getting a bad phone - shit happens. I could (just about) see you getting *two* bad phones out of two. There is no way I'd buy that you got three successive phones that failed in the same way, as for five ? Well, I'll be charitable and say you must be the unluckiest person on the planet. Is your name Brian by any chance ?
For reference: "In line with the firm’s fourth-quarter report, a study that analyzed smartphone failures during the first quarter of 2016 determined that Android devices cause far more problems for their owners than iPhones. According to Blancco Technology Group’s new data, 44% of Android phones experienced failures between January and March of this year, compared to 25% of iPhones"
Occam's razor says I still think you don't look after the phone, assuming you're telling the truth. Sorry.
Physicists get Hadrons!
I see someone's dealt with Apple's "support". It's never Apple's problem. It's always "you're doing it wrong".
Hogwash. I've had two iPhones replaced by Apple in the last 5 years. One for cracked screen - small crack in upper right corner they indicated was a known design issue, replaced for free. The other was for a camera that wouldn't focus for some reason, also replaced for free under warranty. I'm under no illusions that if I threw my phone on the ground or dropped it in the toilet that they would replace it for free (that would be my fault) but they've been nothing but courteous and helpful when I've needed it. They asked if I had dropped the phone but when I answered no they did not pursue the matter further. I've never once heard an Apple representative tell anyone "you're doing it wrong" *in person* and I'm quite confident you haven't either.
That alone is why I'm done trying to deal with Apple. The high prices and poor quality just further cement that decision.
High prices? Sure. Poor quality? There are a lot of things I could critique about Apple's but as a general proposition hardware quality is not among them. They are well made and widely acknowledged even by their competition to be well made.
I agree, on a direct replacement vs labor cost comp these types of repairs are uneconomical. However when one considers the total systemic cost including dispoal/landfill/recycling/PCB pollution I think repair becomes a more feasible solution. Unfortunately manufacturers are mostly not required to incur/consider these tangential costs and so replacement is the most economically expedient solution.
This happened to my iPhone 6 Plus
If a deep blue version of Bandit ever
appears, the entire world corrupts and crashes
If the referenced study is correct (I didn't bother to read it), 25% of iPhones experienced failures in a three month period. Accepting that percentage, then I could have a 25% chance of some failure each time I get a new iPhone. And since all subsequent ones after the first one are a refurbished unit I imagine it could be even higher. While we don't know why they fail, if a large portion are due to this issue then five in a row doesn't seem all that unbelievable to me. Just bad luck.
A "failure" here includes an app that crashes. In your case you're saying the touch screen has failed to work, 4 times in a row, and somehow you know it's about to be 5 times.
The chance of a failure involving the touchscreen is statistically (from the report you didn't read) 3%. Raising 0.03 to the fifth power gives a failure rate of 0.0000000243.
Still going with Occam.
Physicists get Hadrons!
Yes I have an iPhone 6+ that I bought full out 3 years ago and about 3 months ago I started getting that grey line. It randomly appears and you can't touch or swipe. It's a grey little line that jitters on the top. If you bend the phone in a little you can get it to work temporary. I think it was caused by the phone being bent by being in the back pocket. Now it just randomly does it and pushes buttons for me, opens apps, texts. I tried to bring it in to Apple, but the tech to was too busy and had to make an appointment, but couldn't so left.. Then the next day I broke the glass, so I know they would claim that was it, so ended up getting a new phone iPhone 6S+. I got a new one from ATT, but of course I had to pay for it all again...I still have the old phone and it still does it. And I am quite sure it's a defect in the hardware when it bends out of alignment over time. Quite frustrating, was planning on using the phone for 5 years.
Tom Brady was responsible. He breaks every cell phone he can find.
It's funny how they provide those number for failures without elaborating on what a "failure" acually is. As if 44% of android phones actually failed in Q1 of 2016.
I just read the source whitepaper, it deals separately with crashing apps and these are not rolled into the device failures. However, the reported failure rate for my model is 9%, however, it doesn't indicate what percent are due to touchscreen failures. I'll say it's 75%, so that would be a 6.75% chance of a failure each time I get a phone, or if you want to talk probabilities of five times in a row it would be 0.00000140126045. Slightly better odds for me.
i heard if you put the phone in the oven that will fix both that and the red ring issue.
Thanks for that video, it's completely amazing to watch!
John
The average iPhone user is not going to evaluate the repair on anything but the replacement cost. Disposal of the old phone is a negative cost - after all, there is a large market for broken iPhones. So sell the year-old broken phone for $100, get the "newest" phone with all the new features for $100 down payment, and the cell company just charges an extra $50 a month for a few more years.
To people who don't understand the costs of buying on credit (which are most of them) it's a new phone for free.
To the people who buy the broken or used phones, it's a bargain.
To the cell carriers who sell the new phones, and to Apple, it's a platinum-plated gold mine.
John
If the industry would have never gone to RoHS, this would not be an issue. I see this type of failure all the time with BGA's dating from 2006 and up. They need semi-annual reflows to re-solder them back to their respective boards. When lead was still in solder, the solder would bend and flex with the constant heat and cool cycles. Lead-less solder (RoHS) is stiffer, duller, and melts at a higher temp than leaded solder and it does not bond or flex very well at all. Mix RoHS with BGA and you have a recipe for failure.... in time.
And soon to be a fifth, all in under two years. This last one only lasted about three weeks.
While it hasn't cost me anything out-of-pocket, it does add up in time, about 2-3 hours for each instance when you include backing up/restoring, driving to the "genuis" bar, sitting around for my appointment, explaining the issue, having them check for water damage, etc.
Thinking about moving to a Note7 due to the quality issues.
So stop sitting on your fucking phone. Maybe that will fix the problem.
If you keep having such a bad experience with iPhones, why do you keep buying them?
That's some pretty shoddy work ppl. It's supposed to be hidden and deliberately fail further down the line.
Requiem for the American Dream
Yep. BGAs are difficult to rework, but perhaps the real blame for this can be aimed at the EU when they forced the electronics industry to transition to lead free solder 15 years ago, while not touching other industries, like car batteries.
Solder used to be 60%tin 40% lead. Lead was a great modifier to give ductility to solder joints. By going to almost 100% tin, solder joints are now more brittle, thus micro BGAs suffer more from thermal expansion fractures and shear fractures from physical drops.
The crazy thing, is the transition, which cost the industry Billions, was based on unproven science that tin/lead solder leached in ground fill rubbish dumps. It doesn't unless you have acid. But here we are today, stuck with a EU mandated change that increases energy to manufacturer and decreases reliability (see tin asker problem as well).
46137
Cracked solder plagued many iBook motherboards. Apple never fessed up or compensated the victims.
While it hasn't cost me anything out-of-pocket,
When my wife’s iPhone 6 had this problem, I thought maybe it was just a fluke. Then when my iPhone 6+ had exactly the same problem, I asked the AppleCare rep if this was a known problem. Of course, she denied it. Turns out my suspicion was correct.
Those repairs DO last because Jessa actually fixes Apples shoddy design by _reinforcing_ touch ic with additional metal shield, you know, the way Apple did it in previous models.
As for economics, would you rather pay another $600 when you can repair your current device for half as much?
Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
If you liked Jessas content you will love Loius Rossmann: https://www.youtube.com/user/r...
Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
I too get "unresponsive to touch, or less responsive overall" when I suffer from ball cracks. A hard reset is sometimes helpful early on but as the ball cracks progress, even that isn't enough!
Apple needs to recall these phones. I personally had it occur on two of my iPhone 6+, both followed a screen replacement.
One of the screen replacements was completed by apple and one a 3rd party vendor. Crazy thing is Apple still has not recalled these phones. They act like it is the end users issue.
These phones are a POS that has a very poor design.
So stop sitting on your fucking phone. Maybe that will fix the problem.
Or even consider getting a phone that doesn't stop working when it's flexed a little. e.g. every other phone.
hey i remember that plague...its called the xbox and playstation mobo issue....twistie flexie...and sittie for long time and....board bendie in wrong places....mmm..
nasty buggie.
you have to reflow the whatever chip that sits on the board to fix it and even that is temporary...solution:
dont make it flexible or so thin...
flipping idiots..