Apple To Unveil 'AirPods' That Use Custom Bluetooth Chip (macrumors.com)

It's no secret that Apple is planning to remove the headphone jack in its upcoming flagship smartphones. A new report from KGI Securities analyst Ming-Chi Kuo, which confirms rumors that Apple will indeed remove the headphone jack in the iPhone 7 to improve the device's water resistance, suggests that Apple is developing earbuds called "AirPods" that will employ its own Bluetooth-like communication chip. Mac Rumors reports: "First and foremost, as has been rumored, Kuo suggests Apple is working on its own Bluetooth-like communication chip and its own Bluetooth headphones. Previous information suggests the Bluetooth chip will improve battery performance for longer battery life. The chip may be included in the wireless earbuds Apple has in development, which are said to be Bragi Dash-style wireless Bluetooth earbuds that are entirely wire free. The earbuds will be called "AirPods," based on trademark filings that have been discovered, and the product could be unveiled as early as September 7 alongside the iPhone 7. According to Kuo, Apple will sell its Apple-branded Bluetooth headphones alongside its Beats line of headphones, targeting the high-end market with the "AirPods" and the mid-range market with the Beats headphones. Kuo does not believe the company will package Bluetooth headphones with the iPhone 7. Instead, Apple is likely to ship the iPhone 7 with Lightning-based EarPods that feature a Lightning connector instead of a 3.5mm headphone jack."

Comments

Basically

[Kartu]

"Earlier, everyone could sell headphones for our devices, now we found a way to 'fix' that to 'improve device's water resistance'".

Re: Basically

[Anonymous Coward]

And so we can create an ecosystem where we get $2 per unit on items that people previously paid $1 for.

Re: Basically

[Anonymous Coward]

There are already knockoff earbuds that use the lightning connector for sale.

Re:Basically

[Dracos]

"Water resistance" is the most unique spelling of "vendor lock-in" I've ever seen.

Re:Basically

[Opportunist]

What it actually improves is third party accessory resistance.

Re: Basically

[Opportunist]

And how do they compare to ordinary earbuds in price and quality?

Re:Basically

[stealth_finger]

Not only that they're going to cost shitloads if they're aimed at the high end market while beats (already massively overpriced) are the mid range.

Re: Basically

[Anonymous Coward]

Relevance? I never said knockoffs sound good, just knocking down FP's FUD that they won't be available.

Re: Basically

[Opportunist]

Whether they are from Apple or Fruitas Ltd, who gives a shit? What I care about is price and quality. And if companies have to pay out the nose for licensing fee, that money goes into a money sink instead of quality while driving the price up.

Yes, I think that IS relevant.

Re:Basically

[Cloud K]

Just got out of the RDF. Would previously have believed their inevitable implication that this is the only decent way to make it water resistant, and would've believed the "we need the custom chip that we charge manufacturers a licensing fee for so that we can protect your device from being harmed by dodgy Chinese knockoffs" that I recall hearing about Lightning.

Re:Basically

[guruevi]

Bluetooth is an otherwise relatively available spec. My car speaks BT and I have cheap $2 (incl shipping) headphones that do so as well.

I'm not sure who actually uses wired headphones still, I have various sets of wired headphones still in their package from a range of devices I've owned over time.

Re:Basically

[Dog-Cow]

I use wired. They came with the phone. They work. They don't lose charge. I use BT in the car.

Re:Basically

[ColdWetDog]

Quality headphones are wired. Bluetooth really sucks for high end audio. For listening to pop music in your Ford Focus, they're fine.

Do. Not. Want.

Re: Basically

[Anonymous Coward]

Bluetooth doesn't have to suck. The A2DP spec freely allows for other codecs instead of the crappy baseline SBC. Many Android devices support aptX (basically ADPCM), and iOS 7+ supports AAC. And (higher-end) Bluetooth headphones are available today that support both.

Any quality issues are due to bare-minimum implementations, not Bluetooth itself, so that's not a good excuse to ditch it.

Re:Basically

[Anonymous Coward]

You're also not sure what it's like to have good hearing. Clearly you don't, just as a person with severe cataracts can't see the difference between a 1980s standard definition TV and an HDTV display. Cheap is cheap. Cheap headphones will not have the frequency range of a quality pair in the 30 to 100 dollar range. It's also worth noting that you'll never get a quality pair of headphones included with ANY device on the market.

Re:Basically

[GNious]

Wireless in-ears have connection issues if, eg, your phone is on the other side of you, compared to the receiving ear-piece.

Re: Basically

[Anonymous Coward]

It's like you never even read the post I was replying to.
FP said some stuff about locking out 3rd party earbuds, I reply with 3rd party earbuds using the lightning connector already exist.
Then you come in with "quality blah offtopic stuff blah blah" and "licensing blah offtopic blah."
Keep starting useless offtopic argument in FPs. It makes you look cool to be near the top of the page.

Re:Basically

[Anonymous Coward]

You are correct, i haven't seen anyone else really comment on that problem. I ditched the wires a few months ago for running, got an armband for my (wonderful) iPhoneSE. My bluetooth headset only works if the armband is on my right. Constant dropouts and disconnects with armband on my left. My bluetooth in-ears are connected to each other with a little cord, i assume this sends the sound/power between earpieces. Maybe Apple has devised some way of dealing with this problem? A Bluetooth Non-Distortion Field? A metal bar connecting the earpieces through your head? If they haven't this could be the new "-gate". I suppose untethered earpieces would have to have receivers and power in both ears but that makes them heavier and bigger. Maybe a case for your head to span the gap? "iHeadCase"?

Re:Basically

[kilfarsnar]

I use wired. They came with the phone. They work. They don't lose charge. I use BT in the car.

This is one of my gripes. It's one more thing for me to have to keep charged. Wired headphones work just fine.

Re: Basically

[Anonymous Coward]

Hahhaa. Apple makes the worst peripherals on the planet. The mice, the keyboards, the ear buds - I know whenever I see someone using that shit they are a clueless moron. Spend top dollar on apple gear (im fine with that) and don't buy reasonable $50 I/O devices.

Re:Basically

[jeadly]

Why you raggin' on my Focus?

Re:Basically

[guruevi]

It's a headphone on a mobile device, contrary to what you've been told, no headphones will get a 10-60k flat frequency range and neither will your phone produce that.

I work with 'high-end' headphones and quality equipment for medical research purposes (electrostatic). You can't afford a 'good' headphone nor power it on the go nor does the environment (cars, buses, offices, planes...) support the need for higher quality unless you walk around with a set of 3M earmuffs (and even those only attenuate up to 30dB). If one of your unpowered headphones/earbuds 'sounds' better than the other it's because they're distorting the low (and sometimes other) frequencies to a significant degree.

Sure you can get slightly better quality ones by spending $20 instead of $2 but anything that costs more than that is just wasting money. Bluetooth is fine for the purpose for most people and the protocol supports a decent quality sound (the older ones do sound like they've just gone through a telephone filter, the newer ones are just fine).

Re:Basically

[guruevi]

Headphones suck for high-end audio. You don't buy a set of headphones to listen to a concert piece in your car or on the bus. You can't power high-end headphones on the go or with your phone. The point is moot, this is for low-end music on the go, gaming and phone conversations, Bluetooth does just fine for that.

Re:Basically

[fluffernutter]

I'm already overwhelmed with devices to charge.. I have an eight port hub full of tablets and phones every night. I DON'T want to have to charge my headphones as well.

Re: Basically

[BarbaraHudson]

I use wired. They double as the FM radio antenna. Why pay for the dubious privilege of streaming music when there's a couple dozen radio stations locally?

Re:Basically

[rickb928]

Lightning cable manufacturers rarely tout their water resistance. And Lightning is a compelling case of lock-in.

Not that micro-USB isn't also abuse of consumers. USB has always been expensive. Standardization, apparently, is either costly or profitable.

Or both.

Re: Basically

[BarbaraHudson]

And while we're at it, why not throw in a digital TV tuner? TV and radio stations don't track you.

Re:Basically

[rickb928]

'I use wired'

'I use BT in the car.'

This is the schizophrenia that leaves me wondering if you realize you could use one or the other, and be happy.

Mind you, with the near-demise of manual shift in cars, wired headphones are tolerable, but aside from not hearing horns or the clank of an engine destroying itself, headphones in the car for a driver are a really, really bad idea. And wired phones with a manual shift is a SNL skit come to life.

Re: Basically

[Anonymous Coward]

A lot of people tend to think their hearing is above average, but typically they're just ignorant of their confirmation bias.

I might have more faith in so called golden ears, if they don't fail so many double blinded tests.

Re:Basically

[MachineShedFred]

People that give a shit about sound quality still use wired headphones. Bluetooth audio is lossy as fuck.

Re: Basically

[chihowa]

Whether they are from Apple or Fruitas Ltd, who gives a shit? What I care about is price and quality. And if companies have to pay out the nose for licensing fee, that money goes into a money sink instead of quality while driving the price up.

Yes, I think that IS relevant.

That's an overly simplistic view of 'quality'. There's more to quality than just quality of materials and if a company foregoes a better designed component or technology to avoid licensing fees, they either have to use a lower quality component/technology or engineer their own (perhaps at a higher overall cost).

Licensing technology is not always a good choice, and I'm not defending excessive licensing fees, but it is not always opposed to quality.

Re:Basically

[rickb928]

Oh dear.

MP3 is a affront to audio quality. Even 320k sampling is sad. I would prefer ATRAC, or Ogg, but the war is over.

Arguing for sound quality over BT is ignoring the reality that what your BT chip gets is already compressed, limited, downsampled, and normalized. Sort of like most FM radio. But Top 40 isn't really about the music any more anyways, just the sexualized or thug lyrics, so nothing of value is lost.

Me? I keep reverting to 60s-70s heavy metal, British Invasion, and 90s-on female singer-songwriters, oh and electronica when it was being inventive. I'm less into dance/trance/garage/speed than ever, but if I get a bicycle that changes. The desert is flat (:

Re: Basically

[MachineShedFred]

I have a set of Sennheiser bluetooth (and also pluggable) headphones that support AptX, and so does OS X. The same song sounds worse using AptX then it does if I plug the same headphones into the Mac.

Yes, AptX is better than SBC; it still has a way to go.

Re:Basically

[MachineShedFred]

I'm pretty sure he meant that he uses Bluetooth to get his music from the phone to the stereo built into the car, not headphones.

Re:Basically

[squiggleslash]

I'm not an audiophile me a long shot, indeed I regularly overcompress music because it sounds fine to me, but I've never heard music sound as good over a bluetooth connection - either to a car stereo or to my BT headphones - as it does with a wired connection. I have to assume some critical frequencies are being dropped or something.

Re:Basically

[Anonymous Coward]

Headphones suck for high-end audio. .

That must be why virtually every recording studio in the world uses headphones when they are
checking the mix.

Don't quit your day job, slick.

Re: Basically

[squiggleslash]

Many Android devices support aptX (basically ADPCM),

At what bitrate? Because ADPCM at a low enough bit rate is going to sound way more crappy than MP3 at the same bitrate.

Re:Basically

[rickb928]

You will find that this is as much a problem of free space connectivity with Bluetooth.

As an experiment, try walking out to the parking lot. Walking next to parked cars, reception might be good or average.

Now walk in the middle of the lane, away from cars. Or an empty area. Yeah, you'll need your phone in the right place.

If thing work best with the phone on your right arm, that's where the antenna is for the BT set.

My old BackBeat 903s really showed this. My Motorola S705 was the hottest BT thing I've ever had, would go 30 feet through 2 masonry walls and drywall into the back yard.

Re: Basically

[vovin]

Dunno if this helps but Android Auto dumps AAC encoded audio.
So Android 5.x Lollipop (and up) can send AAC via Bluetooth as well.

Re: Basically

[Anonymous Coward]

Except they don't. They use studio/monitor speakers in a room with neutral acoustics. Speakers of similar quality will always have better sound as they don't have size compromises. You only use headphones when there is compromises in the room acoustics or there is background noise.

Re:Basically

[segedunum]

They're also the most stupid and impractical pieces of shit ever. You only need to look at those and you lose at least one of them.

Apple are nuts.

Re: Basically

[Anonymous Coward]

You are not the target audience for Apple.

Re:Basically

[Anonymous Coward]

Me? I keep reverting to 60s-70s heavy metal, British Invasion, and 90s-on female singer-songwriters, oh and electronica when it was being inventive. I'm less into dance/trance/garage/speed than ever, but if I get a bicycle that changes. The desert is flat (:

No one gives a shit about what you listen to, you smug bitch.

Re:Basically

[dwillden]

How is a new standard connector that the industry is all moving to vendor lock-in? Vendor lock-in is a single vendor implementing a "feature" that they won't license no matter how much people want it to lock users to their product. An industry wide adoption of a new technology is exactly the opposite of vendor lock-in.

Re: Basically

[Anonymous Coward]

better thug music than cultural masturbation music

Re:Basically

[macs4all]

"Water resistance" is the most unique spelling of "vendor lock-in" I've ever seen.

What will be your excuse next year when you will have to search quite a bit to find a decent Android phone that still has a headphone jack?

Re:Basically

[macs4all]

Just got out of the RDF. Would previously have believed their inevitable implication that this is the only decent way to make it water resistant, and would've believed the "we need the custom chip that we charge manufacturers a licensing fee for so that we can protect your device from being harmed by dodgy Chinese knockoffs" that I recall hearing about Lightning.

The least amount of "holes" in the chassis is undeniably going to result in better water resistance. Anyone who says otherwise has never designed a product intended to have anything above an IPX0 rating.

And Apple designed a custom Bluetooth chip to address the same deficiencies as BT 5 does; but they are a year ahead of the curve at this point, because the BT 5 spec hasn't even been finalized yet.

Re:Basically

[macs4all]

Quality headphones are wired. Bluetooth really sucks for high end audio. For listening to pop music in your Ford Focus, they're fine.

Do. Not. Want.

Bluetooth is about to not-suck. Both Apple and the industry in general are addressing BT's audio deficiencies; Apple wit their custom chip, and the Bluetooth Standards people, with BT 5. But BT 5 isn't finalized yet; so Apple decided not to wait another year.

Re: Basically

[cayenne8]

I want something with QUALITY...I've been using an older version of basically THESE for years now.....

I"ve yet to find BT headphones that come even close to what's offered with a cord for earphones.

Well, I don't trade in phones that often, and my iPod mini and iPod classic work just fine for the gym and have the jack, so not like this will hit me that soon, I hope.

Maybe by then, they'll have quality BT headsets I'd be interested in....

Re:Basically

[macs4all]

Headphones suck for high-end audio. .

That must be why virtually every recording studio in the world uses headphones when they are checking the mix.

Don't quit your day job, slick.

They use headphones as PART of the "mix-checkout", because they certainly reveal details that free-air speakers do not; but that doesn't really make them "better", just more detailed (mostly because of their proximity to your ear).

But studios also use other systems to check out a mix, too.

Re:Basically

[macs4all]

Me? I keep reverting to 60s-70s heavy metal, British Invasion, [...], oh and electronica when it was being inventive.

Almost all of that being recorded on analog Dolby-A Reel-Reel tape decks that rival 1990s Dolby-C cassette decks in terms of quality.

Re: Basically

[rickb928]

Lightning is industry - wide?

Re:Basically

[tnk1]

Yes. Water resistance for an iPhone is a ridiculous reason to remove the headphone jack. It's complete and total bullshit.

I can buy the idea that they might want to make it thinner, even though I don't personally give a shit if it gets any thinner, and might be worried if it gets too thin.

It probably does improve cost, at least a little.

But the two reasons that they are really doing it are:

1. They believe it is "the future". I think they may be sincere in this, even though as always, the definition of "progressive" seems to be whatever people want it to be because it is a completely subjective concept.
2. They can make more money on Apple accessories by removing a standard connector. And of course, having the Beats deal only makes this more of a thing they might want to do.

Re: Basically

[rickb928]

Led Zeppelin's first album was pretty weakly recorded. Second was marginally better.

Live At Leeds is a surprisingly clean recording.

Most of that was recorded on Ampex decks, 4 and 8 tracks. Mixdowns to accommodate that limitation caused some problems.

Not much Dolby used in the studio until around the late 60s, and it wasn't universally available.

I owned a Revox A77 modified to run at 15 ips to transcribe from vinyl, then copied to Nakamichi or Tandberg cassette decks. The Revox was such a great deck, the servo motors changed everything.

But MP3 doesn't improve any of those recordings.

Re: Basically

[macs4all]

But MP3 doesn't improve any of those recordings.

Of course not. Garbage in, garbage out. (Not talking about the music, just the noise-floor, etc.)

Oh, and the actual 16-track Master of Zep II was reportedly running around in the boot (trunk) of (IIRC) John Paul Jones' car, and when they went to transfer it to digital, the oxide was literally VISIBLY sloughing-off of the tape as they played it, to the point where one of those present remarked "I sure hope we're getting this; because this isn't going to play a second time..."

Re: Basically

[macs4all]

But the A77 was a great analog prosumer deck, I'll agree with you there!

Re: Basically

[gweilo8888]

He won't need one, because most Android manufacturers will keep the headphone jack.

Re: Basically

[gweilo8888]

Better than 100% waterproof? Because my phone can already withstand lengthy total immersions without even the slightest whisper of a concern, and my phone has the exposed headphone jack you're decrying. Truth be told this has nothing to do with anything but increasing the revenue stream from Apple customers with a choice of either badly overpriced first-party hardware, or skimming off the third parties with licensing fees.

Re: Basically

[Anonymous Coward]

If only Apple would add a separate volume control for the alarm ringer. It is ridiculous that my expensive iPhone does not have this most basic of functions and I have to adjust the master volume manually every night before bed and every morning after waking up. Even ancient flip phones had a separate volume control for the alarm clock as standard. And I bet the new iPhone will not have it either.

Re: Basically

[macs4all]

Better than 100% waterproof? Because my phone can already withstand lengthy total immersions without even the slightest whisper of a concern, and my phone has the exposed headphone jack you're decrying. Truth be told this has nothing to do with anything but increasing the revenue stream from Apple customers with a choice of either badly overpriced first-party hardware, or skimming off the third parties with licensing fees.

Anyone who claims something is "100% waterproof" has NO idea what "IP" ratings or testing mean, and has never participated even peripherially in the testing procedure.

And for you to just say "Well, this is nothing more than a money-grab for Apple" has no idea that MFi bootleg chips are so prevelant that the entire MFi program is really kind of a joke, as far as "restricting consumer choice" or "enriching Apple through licensing fees" goes. Go on to Amazon.com and you can find a metric buttload of Third-Party "Compatible" devices, cables, etc. that are so cheap that they simply cannot have even a few cents-worth of "Licensing" fees included in the price. Only the major peripheral companies like Belkin and Logitech, etc. bother with the MFi program. Pretty much ZERO of the "Chinese-brand" stuff is "MFi-certified". And obviously, Apple doesn't pursue those people.

Re:Basically

[glig]

And wired phones with a manual shift is a SNL skit come to life.

Headphones with manual shift car here. Works fine if you know the car well enough and know how to drive a standard well enough.

Re:Basically

[TheGratefulNet]

audio guys (like me) care.

in fact, we prefer to avoid the built-in dac and go usb->dac or usb->spdif->dac and then drive our own phones with our own amps.

mostly, its high-z phones (senn) that need higher voltage swing to make the same volume as low-z buds.

if you force me to use YOUR analog chain, I will fight it and resist.

granted, most people don't care anymore, but some of us do.

Re:Basically

[unixisc]

USB Type C currently is expensive, but micro USB ain't. I've bought very inexpensive retractable micro USB cables at Microcenter. Once more phones and other gadgets start using type C, prices of those will come down to where micro USB is

Re:Basically

[unixisc]

In the car, Bluetooth is eaten up by my phone, so I go into that when answering a call. Otherwise, my car stereo/navigation system is usually always on either XM, or iPod mode. And I have my ancient 2nd generation iPod (whose battery lasts less then 5 minutes if unplugged) permanently sitting in the console, which I switch to if none of the stations are interesting. And since I'm always alone in the car, no need for headphones (even though I have a pair of wired headphones)

Re:Basically

[Anonymous Coward]

It is illegal in some states to wear headphones while driving.

Re: Basically

[gweilo8888]

Anybody who attempts to place the same constraints on casual conversation as on legalese has clearly never participated even peripherally in a grown-up debate. You knew what I meant by 100% waterproof. So did I. My phone is waterproof, as in not merely water resistant or splashproof. It was advertised as such. It works as such, as tested by myself and *many* others, when used within the constraints laid down by the manufacturer. (Five feet, 30 minutes.) And all of this is achieved with an uncapped 3.5mm audio jack, thus showing that Apple and its fanbois' claims that waterproofing is the reason for the lack of a headphone jack is cobblers.

Also, whether Apple gets its licensing fees from *everyone* is totally beside the point. If it gets even a cent in licensing revenues -- and it gets a hell of a lot more than that -- then it makes money out of foisting proprietary crap on its users, and that cost is passed on to the users in overinflated accessory prices. And that's the real reason not just for the lack of a headphone jack, but also for the choice of a proprietary wireless protocol rather than a standard one. It's all about Apple shaking its customers down for the maximum possible cash.

Re:Basically

[Dracos]

I'm already in a similar situation. Soon I'll be giving up my 5 year old Android phone and going back to the flip phone it replaced because there is no longer an upgrade path that will let me keep the hardware full QWERTY keyboard.

Re: Basically

[macs4all]

Except for now we KNOW that Apple is including a Lightning to 3.5mm adapter in the box; so you can continue to use the same precious $5 earbuds you always did. So there is absolutely ZERO vendor lock- in. And there are already other Lightning earbuds, headphones and speakers. If Apple wants to charge a licensing fee for use of the interface it designed, then I guess those mfgs. Figured it was well worth the fee. That's called free-market economics. Tough shit if you don't like it.

And the new iPhone will continue to support Bluetooth, including AAC over BT; so again, where's the lock-in? Oh, and BTW, every BT device OEM has to pay licensing too, and if you want Aptx support, guess what; yep, ANOTHER license. And none of that goes to Apple.

But I don't see you railing against THOSE licensing fees, you disingenuous fucktard.

Re:Basically

[macs4all]

I'm already in a similar situation. Soon I'll be giving up my 5 year old Android phone and going back to the flip phone it replaced because there is no longer an upgrade path that will let me keep the hardware full QWERTY keyboard.

You know why? Because you are apparently one of the few people on the planet that bases their entire phone selection on that ONE (obsolete) feature.

Re:Basically

[Applehu Akbar]

"Earlier, everyone could sell headphones for our devices, now we found a way to 'fix' that to 'improve device's water resistance'".

Your existing BT gear will still work with the iPhone 7.

Brilliant

[DogDude]

It's brilliant and simple. Apple customers will buy anything. They buy ridiculous "special" Apple chargers now. Why wouldn't they also buy "special" Apple headphones? Of course they will. By the tens of millions. Apple will make hundreds of millions on just these dumb, superfluous gadgets.

Re:Brilliant

[Anonymous Coward]

What's more assuming is the /. hypocrisy. Sony try to change the game by going proprietary and are vilified, Apple do the exact same thing are are worshipped like some bizarre cult. Xenophobic much?

Re:Brilliant

[stealth_finger]

What's more assuming is the /. hypocrisy. Sony try to change the game by going proprietary and are vilified, Apple do the exact same thing are are worshipped like some bizarre cult. Xenophobic much?

Do you read /.? Basically everytime apple are mentioned it's more slagging off with a few defenders. The very post you replied to is negative towards apple yet you claim they are worshipped like some bizarre cult. That's just the apple reality distortion field and it's not native to slashdot at all.

Re:Brilliant

[Anonymous Coward]

apple users don't read slashdot.

they click like on stuff.

Re:Brilliant

[Ritz_Just_Ritz]

I currently have an iPhone 6S Plus for everyone in my family (5 devices). I bought them because my company offered an attractive subsidy for them and I get a discount on the company sponsored wireless plan. However, this is a bridge too far. I'm not buying all new headphones "just because" and I won't be beholden to Apple for something so simple and ubiquitous as ear buds and headphones. If they remove the headphone jack, these will definitely be my last iPhones. I won't run out and sell them, but when they outlive their usefulness I'll choose another more sensible vendor.

Best,

Re:Brilliant

[Dog-Cow]

Come back in 5 years and let us know what you picked. Or even if you were able to find a similar-quality phone with a headphone jack.

Re:Brilliant

[Anonymous Coward]

It doesn't matter even if you were given the phones for free. When you use an Apple device, it's just like dropping your pants, bending over, and screaming, "Rape my asshole, Tim Cook!"

Re:Brilliant

[LichtSpektren]

It's brilliant and simple. Apple customers will buy anything. They buy ridiculous "special" Apple chargers now. Why wouldn't they also buy "special" Apple headphones? Of course they will. By the tens of millions. Apple will make hundreds of millions on just these dumb, superfluous gadgets.

This comment becomes really funny if you're aware that its poster is an outspoken Windows Phone fanboy.

Re:Brilliant

[Anonymous Coward]

> It's brilliant and simple. Apple customers will buy anything. They buy ridiculous "special" Apple chargers now. Why wouldn't they also buy "special" Apple headphones? Of course they will. By the tens of millions. Apple will make hundreds of millions on just these dumb, superfluous gadgets people.
FTFY

Re:Brilliant

[Anonymous Coward]

It doesn't matter even if you were given the phones for free. When you use an Apple device, it's just like dropping your pants, bending over, and screaming, "Rape my asshole, Tim Cook!"

I think you're holding the phone wrong...

Re:Brilliant

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow. You are a fucking moron.

I have several Apple devices (2012 MBP, two iPhone 5s, and an iPad), so I kinda know a bit about the ecosystem. I also have a linux box, a windows box, and three android devices.

1) You have a special charger for your phone, it just so happens to be different from Apples. And shitty. Let's face it. Lightning connectors are orientation-less and more robust. All three of my android tablets now have loose connectors such that charging them requires positioning the cable just so and hoping it stays there when you remove your hand. The iPhones? Plug in cable and done. And yeah, I use Amazon Home Basic lightning cables because they are cheaper.

2) I won't be getting a special headphone jackless iPhone. I'll either stick with what I have, or get the smaller phone they make that isn't retarded. And to head off any Apple apologists: yes, I *do* use my $5 headphones all the time. Mowing and exercise. I will not pay more than about $10 for headphones, period.

Re:Brilliant

[2ms]

Are you saying you think headphone manufacturers will have difficulty making headphones with Lightning connectors?

Re:Brilliant

[fluffernutter]

That's not fair. They can write their feelings in up to 140 characters.

Re:Brilliant

[2ms]

Have fun not owning a smartphone then. Every other phone on the market now seems to be an almost exact copy of the iPhone 6. Look at the Galaxy Note 7 and Galaxy S7 -- indistinguishable aside from the pointless wrapping screen that people crack all the time. No way Samsung isn't going to go to USB-C -- the reversible connector that Apple designed and donated to the USB group.

Re: Brilliant

[BarbaraHudson]

Similar quality phone? Kind of hard. Who else is making shit that bends in your pocket or is too thin to hold properly or can't use earphones that need to be charged? They can't make game-changing stuff any more so now the name of the game is to change stuff just to milk the ever-smaller percentage of fans.

Re:Brilliant

[Feral Nerd]

Have fun not owning a smartphone then. Every other phone on the market now seems to be an almost exact copy of the iPhone 6. Look at the Galaxy Note 7 and Galaxy S7 -- indistinguishable aside from the pointless wrapping screen that people crack all the time. No way Samsung isn't going to go to USB-C -- the reversible connector that Apple designed and donated to the USB group.

Well everybody else seems to be going with USB-C:

http://www.theverge.com/2015/6...

... so why shouldn't Samsung? Then there is the option of puting a USB-C connector on the iPhone 7 (the plug looks small enough) and Samsung does that as well everybody will follow them in which case people could use ubiquitous wired headphones on what ever device they have. Once that happens all people have to piss and moan about is having to unplug the headphones to charge the phone which does not concern me since I have been using Bluetooth headphones for years.

Re:Brilliant

[rickb928]

My first Android phone (and THE FIRST Android phone), the G1, didn't have a headphone jack. We survived.

And I had to wait for an OS update to activate and make BT usable. Agony.

We used a USB audio adapter plug. It was indeed misery, but hey, cool. Android. Cool.

Re: Brilliant

[LynnwoodRooster]

Now, let's be honest. If it diden't bend easily then how can they have chips delaminate from the PCB and fritz the screen and force an upgrade? It's "Business Case Engineering 101" there...

Re:Brilliant

[macs4all]

apple users don't read slashdot.

Shall I use some of my Mod points to show you how wrong you are?

Re:Brilliant

[macs4all]

I currently have an iPhone 6S Plus for everyone in my family (5 devices). I bought them because my company offered an attractive subsidy for them and I get a discount on the company sponsored wireless plan. However, this is a bridge too far. I'm not buying all new headphones "just because" and I won't be beholden to Apple for something so simple and ubiquitous as ear buds and headphones. If they remove the headphone jack, these will definitely be my last iPhones. I won't run out and sell them, but when they outlive their usefulness I'll choose another more sensible vendor.

Best,

Relax!

Rumor has it that they are actually going to include a Lightning headset and a Lightning -> 3.5mm adapter with the phone. The Air Pods will be an accessory.

Re:Brilliant

[macs4all]

Come back in 5 years and let us know what you picked. Or even if you were able to find a similar-quality phone with a headphone jack.

Heck, come back in ONE year and tell me if you can find ANY smartphone with a 3.5mm jack. There might be one or two; but the selection won't be very good.

Re: Brilliant

[macs4all]

Similar quality phone? Kind of hard. Who else is making shit that bends in your pocket or is too thin to hold properly or can't use earphones that need to be charged? They can't make game-changing stuff any more so now the name of the game is to change stuff just to milk the ever-smaller percentage of fans.

Ever wonder why you don't hear anything anymore about "Bendgate"? Because it never was a "real" thing.

And if rumors are true (and they probably are), Apple is actually going to include a Lightning headset and a Lightning -> 3.5mm adapter with the iPhone 7, with the Air Pod BT earbuds being an Accessory.

Re: Brilliant

[BarbaraHudson]

It was a real thing - which is why Apple had to change the design of the case by thickening the weak area. They also replaced bent phones.

Re:Brilliant

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple will make hundreds of millions on just these dumb, superfluous gadgets.

Hey, that's no way to talk about Apple users!

Oh yeah this'll be good.

[serviscope_minor]

Lightning based headphones are just going to be an unreliable PITA.

OK, the 3.5mm jack isn't perfect. However they are pretty solid. Actually these days they're really really solid. The lighting connector is pretty well known for reliability issues. Now compare how the two are used. The 3.5mm jack is used while listening to music, often carrying the phone, where it gets knocked. It still works. The lightning connector is not unknown for breaking and that's used for charging where the phone tends to be on the desk.

Yes, I know neither of those are universals, but the common case for the 3.5mm jack is much harsher than the common case for the lightning connector and yet the former is still much more reliable than the latter.

Personally I reckon we'll be hearing about lots of broken and unreliable headphones when the go that route.

Or there's bluetooth ones. They've been around for years and while they're available, they are not currently anything like as popular as analog headphones despite just about any system now supporting both fine. Because among other things, they're more expensive and it's super fun when your headphones run out of charge too.

Re: Oh yeah this'll be good.

[BlackSabbath]

I'll take a slight exception to the "really solid" descriptor of the headphone jack. I recently had an experience where my earbuds plug wasn't "locking in" properly, resulting in occasional channel loss and/or mic loss. I thought I had damaged it when the wire had recently got caught and the resulting tension caused a slight bend - or Si I thought. After doing my own checking, I gave up and went to the Apple Store. They found a tiny piece of fluff jammed right in to the back of the phone socket. The tech said he had a hard time removing it as the battery lies just beyond that and he didn't want to pierce it with the tool he used. Fluff removed, plug locks in, earbuds working fine.

None of which is to say that the lightning adapter is robust, it isn't. But it's smaller opening makes it less likely that shit will get jammed in it, that's for sure.

Re:Oh yeah this'll be good.

[AmiMoJo]

The water resistance thing is bogus, lots of other manufacturers don't have a problem making waterproof 3.5mm jacks. If they cared about thickness they could use a 2.5mm jack, so that at least simple adapters would work.

This just means more stuff to carry and charge. Presumably the battery will be non-removable too. In a month someone will have reverse engineered the protocol and will sell cheaper accessories, until an Apple software update breaks them deliberately.

Re: Oh yeah this'll be good.

[geekmux]

I'll take a slight exception to the "really solid" descriptor of the headphone jack. I recently had an experience where my earbuds plug wasn't "locking in" properly, resulting in occasional channel loss and/or mic loss. I thought I had damaged it when the wire had recently got caught and the resulting tension caused a slight bend - or Si I thought. After doing my own checking, I gave up and went to the Apple Store. They found a tiny piece of fluff jammed right in to the back of the phone socket. The tech said he had a hard time removing it as the battery lies just beyond that and he didn't want to pierce it with the tool he used. Fluff removed, plug locks in, earbuds working fine.

None of which is to say that the lightning adapter is robust, it isn't. But it's smaller opening makes it less likely that shit will get jammed in it, that's for sure.

Since 2007, over one billion iPhones have been sold around the world. And your particular situation likely numbers in the hundreds.

Needless to say I'll take exception to "fluff" being used as an excuse or justification for removing a 3.5mm headphone standard the world has known for decades.

Re:Oh yeah this'll be good.

[houghi]

I assume the majority of people here have either worked in a callcenter or are working for a callcenter as IT or have done so.
Remember when you had to buy a headphone that was available only for that specific brand and what the prices where for those headphones? That is going again to be the case.

So what are they going to do with all the extra cash they are going to get for the more expensive headphones? They will build a war chest because I forsee now that in the near future Europe will knock on Apples door to use a standard connection. People here will blame Europe for being Anti-American and the whole shabank will start anew with anything else they can come up with.

I really, really, really wish Microsoft hadn't bailed out Apple when they where almost banktrupt.

And seriosuly, I would LOVE a thicker phone, because that would mean more place for a battery and that means increased battery life.
Because what they do now is go larger, but thinner. That decreases the usable volume. And if siwe matter for you:
here is a small waterproof phone that you can buy for a 'bit' less than an iPhone.

Re: Oh yeah this'll be good.

[Cloud K]

I've been there, in the Apple RDF, bought their products for quite a while, just recovering...

Looking back, it's pretty shocking that we dumb ourselves down (no offence, I did much of the same) to the point that we find ourselves taking a phone to a 'genius' to remove fluff from a headphone port. Re-learn basic electronics like how pieces of metal pushed together conduct electricity, get a few tools and some compressed air and isopropyl alcohol and think for yourself again, you'll be glad you did :)

Re: Oh yeah this'll be good.

[Cloud K]

To add, my similar story is when I had one of the older iMacs and eventually a sort of 'cloud' of dust adhered itself to the wrong side of the glass, so I had a slightly murky area between the display and the glass. I booked an appointment, drove 100 miles to my nearest Apple store, and showed the Genius - who promptly removed the glass with a couple of suction cups, wiped it down with a microfiber cloth, put the glass back and handed it back. Problem solved. If only I hadn't seen everything as an excuse to switch my brain off and not do anything for myself.

Re:Oh yeah this'll be good.

[Cloud K]

Don't get me started on blaming the EU for everything. I'm going to miss all the rights they've been protecting for us when we leave :(

Re:Oh yeah this'll be good.

[Dog-Cow]

I work with iOS devices for a living. I've dealt with dozens over the past few years. I've seen one that had a problem with the lightning connector, and cleaning it out pretty much fixed it. What problems do people have with it?

Re: Oh yeah this'll be good.

[ColdWetDog]

Oh, I don't know about the 'hundreds' part. I've pulled pocket fuzz out of various 3.5 mm jacks on numerous occasions. Not that hard - unclear why Mr. Genius had so much trouble.

The headphone jack IS a weak link. Lots of torque on the jack, it sticks out and gets snagged. BUT. Bluetooth audio quality sucks (there, I've said it again). I don't have to worry about whether or not the damned headphone has enough power to make it through.

And Bluetooth audio sucks.

Re:Oh yeah this'll be good.

[serviscope_minor]

I guess you've been lucky. There are plenty of reports of it breaking with all sorts of guides as to how to reduce breakage and etc. Secondly, the generaly usage of lightning ports (charging) is not as mechanically abusive as headphone ports (in a pocket).

Also, finally, 3.5mm jacks are physically larger and have far fewer, larger pins. This makes it mechanically and electrically more sound. On the plus side they can apparently route analogue signals, so the jack will have the same benign temopray failure modes.

And OK, I'll tell you the real problem I have with it. I am an engineer, and I've been on projects where shitty connectors have been the bane of my existence. I've kind of come to the conclusion that the budget for connectors sould be at least as large as the personel budget. Well OK not really, but you get the idea. Shitty connectors are cheap and hateful, frankly. Part of me wishes basically everything was connected by one of these

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

or these

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

or maybe something by ODU. The lighning connector is not the shittiest connector invented *cough* USB micro *cough* SATA *cough*, but it simply isn't that good. It's pretty cheapass, not that robust, and Apple have a fetish for really tiny cable boots just to make them all the less reliable. 3.5mm connectors aren't the best either, but there are some really pretty solid ones out there. Having a 3.5mm connector on some piece of kit doesn't give me the screaming heebie jeebies and make me want to murderize the vendor.

What problems do people have with it?

um gee, replacing a standard, physically robust port for which tens of thousands of commodity options are available for with a proprietary, less robust one for which currently precisely zero options are available for, all to save 0.5mm of thickness which no one cares about.

No I can't think of any reason why this is a bad idea.

Re:Oh yeah this'll be good.

[serviscope_minor]

I'm going to miss all the rights they've been protecting for us when we leave :(

And that's the stupid thing really. I mean most of our trade is with the EU, so we're going to have to meet the EU specs if we want to sell there. And other people selling to us are going to have to stick to the EU specs to sell there and are unlikely to make a crappy underspec version just to sell to us.

So, we'll probably wind up having EU specified stuff most of the time anyway but no chance of influencing the specs for the better.

Oh except our proud British manufacturers of dangerously inadequate oven gloves won't be forced by the evil EU commie-nazis to make them so they're even marginally safe with a standard domestic oven. The the silly law about bent bannanas? We have to keep that since it was originally our law that we somehow persuaded the EU to adopt. God save the Queen and the British Pound! And down with the eurocrats! raaah!

Re: Oh yeah this'll be good.

[Anonymous Coward]

Not true in my case- i have the reverse problem every 4 months. My lightning port gets blocked with lint, i can't charge the phone anymore and i have to make a genius visit to have them remove the lint, at least until the phone is out of warranty. Happened with my 5 for 3 years, just started happening with my SE now. Never had the problem with the headphone jack.

Re: Oh yeah this'll be good.

[BlackSabbath]

You must have missed the bit where I said I checked it myself. I shone a light down the socket but for the life of me couldn't see anything untowards. Even if I had, I doubt I have anything narrow enough to get down there and grab it.
I'm a bit nonplussed by some of the vehement reactions here though. If you don't see any value in the ecosystem (and that _is_ what you're buying with Apple), then just don't buy it. Personally I kind of like that there's a vendor that is happy to break with the past and champion design decisions they believe are for the best. May not always work out (though they've had some success with various interfaces) but at least they're happy to strike off in a new direction. I recently bought an iPhone SE and it will do me for another couple of years at least. As will the Jabra Revo phones I'm waiting for (yes, BT audio sucks but tbh on public transport I can't tell the difference, and now there'll be no more snagging of cables - yay).

Re: Oh yeah this'll be good.

[Cloud K]

Sorry, I did miss that bit. Obviously too busy projecting the way I dumbed myself down onto you to read properly!

Hmm, that's the second time I've had this exact discussion in about 10 minutes :) Personally, I'm not angry, and indeed... just not buying it is what I'm doing. I think though, maybe a lot of the people are still fans of Apple at heart and want to see them do better? It's okay to not like what a company you're a fan of does. Occasionally, they might even listen (okay, that's not too often with Apple). They've always pulled this kind of thing so I don't think they're going to change, but one issue is there's so little incentive to actually put up with it - where previously you'd say something like "okay that's a little irksome but I can live with it because they're the first to properly implement $new_tech and I really want my hands on it, and the £15 adaptor I'll factor into the cost, now!", it doesn't currently appear that they're doing much that's new and innovative, yet are still creating new compromises. It's a shame, and it'd be nice to see them make us 'forget' about these things again.

Re:Oh yeah this'll be good.

[Cloud K]

I'm glad someone else got started, as you said everything I wanted to say but in far fewer words than I usually churn out!

But hey, say way too many people, at least we can "send 'em back" - only most of the people they have in mind came from countries outside of the EU, many were actually born here, and those that did come from the EU are (thankfully) probably going to be able to stay via new agreements. So, didn't really help racists much either. There's the immigration concern where I'll not jump to racism accusations as "let fewer people in" isn't quite the same thing as "send the buggers back".. but that's unlikely to change either, as we're looking likely to still need free movement in the new agreements so.... yep. Let's hope the world doesn't just shrug and say "you're not actually as special as you think on that little island mate"

Re: Oh yeah this'll be good.

[Anonymous Coward]

any reason you can't use a pair of tweezers yourself, or a can of compressed air?

Re:Oh yeah this'll be good.

[MachineShedFred]

if you're having to carry an adapter around to make 99% of headphones work, why go with a slightly smaller TRS connector that saves you 10% of the volume, instead of just deleting it altogether to save 100% of the volume and using a lightning adapter?

a 2.5mm TRS connector would be just as annoying, and twice as pointless.

Re:Oh yeah this'll be good.

[Dixie_Flatline]

In June, wireless headphones started outselling wired ones. http://gizmodo.com/bluetooth-h...

The reality is that the writing is already on the wall. People don't like wires if they can help it. I switched to bluetooth headphones for training because it's a lot easier to do basically anything without a cable flopping around attaching my ears to a pocket.

Bluetooth has its own problems, though. It's easily disrupted by a sweaty body (ironically, since obviously I'm sweating most in the instance where I want them most), and I've had to come up with small hacks when I've got my phone tucked in my cycling jersey pocket, like bundling up some arm warmers so they've got a big gap to my body.

So if Apple has a new wireless standard that they want to throw at me, I'm all for it.

The only time I use wired headphones is at my desk, when my phone is on a dock with an audio out. So that even solves the charging and listening problem.

I get that wired headphones are cheap, but I reckon we'll see bargain-basement headphones being sold for lightning/usb-c ports any day now, or they'll come with 3 connectors in the box.

Re: Oh yeah this'll be good.

[LynnwoodRooster]

So - bad implementation of a 3.5mm jack then, not a failure of the jack. Spec a jack with a little clearance (like everyone else), one that is sealed (like most other companies) and you don't have this problem. And heck, you could also make the phone thinner as well - the Huawei Ascend P2 is 6.18mm thick - and has a 3.5mm jack. If that's not thin enough, the Vivo X3S is just 6mm thick and has a 3.5mm jack.

Re:Oh yeah this'll be good.

[LynnwoodRooster]

If they cared about thickness they could use a 3.5mm jack, so no adapter is needed.

FTFY. The Huawei Ascend P6 has a 3.5mm jack and is 6.18mm thick. The Vivo X3S has a 3.5mm jack and is 6mm thick. Apple could shave a mm off the current phones and keep the 3.5mm jack.

Re:Oh yeah this'll be good.

[macs4all]

The water resistance thing is bogus, lots of other manufacturers don't have a problem making waterproof 3.5mm jacks. If they cared about thickness they could use a 2.5mm jack, so that at least simple adapters would work.

So, your argument is that an adapter from 2.5 to 3.5mm is acceptable; but an adapter from Lightning to 3.5mm is not? Because, if the fairly-reliable rumors are true, Apple is going to pack both a Lightning Headset and a Lightning to 3.5mm adapter with the new iPhone. The Bluetooth Air Pods will be an accessory, since they are too expensive to just include with the phone without raising its price.

Re:Oh yeah this'll be good.

[macs4all]

I assume the majority of people here have either worked in a callcenter or are working for a callcenter as IT or have done so. Remember when you had to buy a headphone that was available only for that specific brand and what the prices where for those headphones? That is going again to be the case.

Based on what?

Apple has supported AAC over Bluetooth (which is superior to Aptx) since iOS 7, and if the fairly-reliable rumors are true, what they are actually going to do is include both a Lightning Headset, plus a Lightning -> 3.5mm adapter with the phone, with the Air Pods Bluetooth earbuds as an accessory; so with the inclusion of an adapter, if their aim was "lock-in", they just shot themselves in the foot.

Re:Oh yeah this'll be good.

[macs4all]

You know why there aren't "plenty of reports" of 3.5mm jacks an plugs breaking? Because it happens so often that it is "non-news".

And OK, I'll tell you the real problem I have with it. I am an engineer, and I've been on projects where shitty connectors have been the bane of my existence.

So am I, and I share your feelings about "shitty connectors". However, Apple doesn't have shitty connectors, period. And they have designed the Lightning connector with the goal of correcting the problems with mini-USB, which is one of the shittiest connector designs since, well I can't think of a worse example...

And someone who hasn't had problems over time with intermittent 3.5mm jacks/plugs is either extremely lucky or a liar. You no doubt know the drill: Spinny-Spinny, Pluga-UnPluga, Unpluga-Wipe-a, Replug... Spinny-Spinny... Repeat.

Anyone can abuse a cable/connector to the point of failure, even something as robust as one of those huge, die-cast multipin MS/AN barrel connectors.

Re:Oh yeah this'll be good.

[unixisc]

If Apple didn't want a 3.5 jack, why not go for a 2.5, which is a smaller jack, but still a standard? Without mucking around w/ the lightning connector or the Bluetooth Earbuds?

Re:Oh yeah this'll be good.

[AmiMoJo]

The difference is that a simple mechanical adapter costs almost nothing and non-Apple ones can't be locked out by firmware updates.

The Apple dongle is going to be $30, most likely. Cables eventually get lost or broken, replacement is inevitable.

Re:Oh yeah this'll be good.

[herbierobinson]

3.5 mm headphone jacks are not solid. I've had three phones and one broken headphone jack and I rarely used it.

It is possible to make that style connector solid, but that only ones I have seen are the 1/4" ones made for the phone company 100 years ago and patch bays for recording studios (also long out of production).

AFIK, nobody has ever made a sturdy 3.5mm phone jack. And that might be on purpose: If the jack was strong, the PC board would end up getting broken.

The basic problem is that the phone plug is basically a big lever that sooner or later gets used to tear the jack apart.

The lightning plugs could be designed to break before the jacks do: But I'll bet they aren't -- why make it easier to break the cable instead of the expensive phone. :-)

Re:horseshit

[Anonymous Coward]

'improve device's water resistance'

Several phones have already been released (eg: Sony Z5) with exposed headphones sockets without compromising water resistance. Poor justification is poor.

So...

[ArylAkamov]

1. Reverse engineer """custom""" bluetooth chip
2. Make adapter
3. ???
4. Profit

Re:So...

[Anonymous Coward]

Not much you can do to reverse engineer the chip if the link is encrypted and the chip holds the key(s) to decrypt the data. Digging keys out of a physical chip takes insane resources and skill.

I, for one, welcome our new DRM Overlords. I will not listen, I will not see unless the almighty DRM Overlords give me a permission to do so.

Re:So...

[mridoni]

This is basically what Chinese manufacturers have tried (and failed) to do with the Lightning connector. I bought two or three of these "uncertified" cables for EUR 2-3 EUR, that refused to work or stopped working after a week or so. I bought a couple of "certified" cables from Amazon (EUR 8, non the insane EUR 19 Apple is asking) and they work well.

Re:So...

[Nocturna81]

So, basically the protocol has been reverse engineered and successfully implemented but that manufacturing quality is sub-par? Because protocols usually don't "break" after a week.

Re:So...

[swb]

I don't know if this is how it works or not, but I seem to remember that lightning connectors used some kind of chip which handshakes with the phone using Apple-provided signed key.

Knockoff vendor manages to sniff licensed cable and phone handshake, steals the keys used in the exchange and puts them in their cable. Cable then "works" at the time of manufacture. Apple lightning licensing enforcement buys knockoff products, checks keys used, and revokes "stolen" vendor keys and knockoff cable stops working.

Ordinarily this would be a problem if the licensed product was only issued a single key. But maybe Apple issues 10 keys to each licensed product and the handshake protocol involves the chip providing keys to the phone until a "good" key is found.

This way the licensed product keeps working because it has a set of backup keys and the odds of them all being used by knockoff vendors are low as the secondary keys aren't provided in the handshake unless the previous ones are rejected during handshake.

Even if all of a vendor's issued keys for a product are used in knockoffs, maybe Apple agrees not to revoke the last product key with the idea that it will take so long to reach this point that it won't matter. Maybe vendors are required to refresh their chip and keys every N units or N months so that a good, unrevoked key is very hard to find and Apple could revoke the last vendor key for a product after N years with the idea that by then the majority of legitimate cables will be worn out or no longer in use.

I just made all this up off the top of my head, so don't kill me over the lack of feasibility or holes, but it does conceptually at least seem to provide a process by which Apple could enforce lightning product licensing yet still account for knockoff cables which seem to work. My wife has a knockoff cable that worked fine for a few months and then quit working. She was using it on her bedside stand with a quality charger, so wear and tear wasn't an issue but both her iPhone and iPad still work fine with licensed cables.

Re:So...

[NotAPK]

"Digging keys out of a physical chip takes insane resources and skill."

I'm not trivializing the task, but don't let yourself become flummoxed by silicon. Any chip can be disassembled. The best example I can post was about the two Cambridge guys who sanded the top off a smart card chip, exposing the circuit. They then used a microscope and a flash lamp to turn individual transistors on and off. The basically told the circuit to read out the key for them.

Source.

Not trivial, but not impossible.

Re:So...

[vovin]

Apple works very hard to track down and disable such unlicensed devices. There is usually a few unlicensed accessories knocked off with each each update.
I suspect one of the reasons for changing to the lightning connector was that the unlicensed accessories had gotten too difficult to defeat.
YMMV.

Re:So...

[swb]

I can only imagine that there is some kind of crypto signing taking place, what I can't figure out is how they manage to keep a lid on forgeries and keep the chip in the cable so dirt cheap that Amazon can sell licensed cables for $8.

I'd wager Apple wanted a chip capable of significant processing power able to fully encrypt the handshake but that vendors pushed back against a $10 component for just charging cable authentication and they were stuck with a dumber chip which could have some data sniffed.

What I don't understand is why the Chinese haven't used their usual trick, funneling the day-shift product to the greymarket on the night shift, putting legitimate vendor chips into greymarket products. If Apple were to grenade these, they grenade a bunch of legitimate products, too.

Windows phones

[Anonymous Coward]

Do these still exist? Not everybody likes Android. Maybe the upcoming iPhone 7 debacle can be an opportunity for indy phone makers to break through.

Re:Windows phones

[davester666]

Hasn't every iPhone release been pre-announced as being a debacle that will herald a new beginning for Windows Phone? Like from the very first one? Sure, for a couple of years in there, Android phones were about to overrun the world, but then in the middle years, there were quite a few where the latest version of wince was about to really take off and crush everyone else.

Re:Windows phones

[ChunderDownunder]

not really. They basically killed off the Lumia line with the 950 series, beyond the budget of anyone curious.

Although, certain pundits were incorrectly predicting the "surface phone" launch at this week's IFA 2016.

Re:Windows phones

[stealth_finger]

not really. They basically killed off the Lumia line with the 950 series, beyond the budget of anyone curious.

I got a lumia 950 and for anyone curious. It's shit, like really shit, so shit you'll be glad you never bothered and im stuck with it for another 13 odd months, still though, it's not an iPhone.

Re: Windows phones

[Anonymous Coward]

At this point Android isn't something to 'like.'

That's like worrying about whether you 'like' the 6-32 threaded screws that hold your PC case together.

(There is probably somebody out there with a metric tap who changes every screw. This is Slashdot.)

Re:Windows phones

[unixisc]

I have a Lumia 550 (didn't want to fork out more for a 950). It comes w/ Windows 10 Mobile and is neat - only regret is it's not in Verizon's portfolio of supported phones. But it's a fantastic system in the car - even Groove's music is something that I can control from the steering wheel - something I can do w/ the iPod mode but not w/ Android. If only it had Google Duo and some of the apps I just have to have - like Vonage - I'd have had it replace one of my other 2 phones

Wireless earpods with HQ audio

[DutchDopey]

If this solution of Apple leads to hq audio over wireless earpods I am for it. I really like standards, but current standard bluetooth wireless audio earpods don't deliver.

Re:Wireless earpods with HQ audio

[greenfruitsalad]

i can tell the difference between 128 Kbps and 320 Kbps mp3 (often even 192 and 320). i cannot tell the difference between 320 Kbps mp3 and FLAC even on high quality speakers. when i blindtested this with other people, nobody could tell the difference between FLAC and 320 Kbps mp3. this is on very expensive speakers and amplifier i bought from a recording studio that closed down. you will never convince me you can tell the difference while wearing tiny plastic earplugs assembled by sleep deprived suicidal foxconn child labour.

Re:Wireless earpods with HQ audio

[MachineShedFred]

You know that there is more than just shitty cheap earbuds on the market, right?

I have a pair of Sennheiser headphones that can either be bluetooth or wired. I almost never use them as bluetooth because the quality is measurably less than plugging in, even when using the AptX codec and not the shitty SBC codec that most A2DP devices use.

Re:Wireless earpods with HQ audio

[omnichad]

That may be, but the Bluetooth standard is based around low-energy both for the transfer and the encoding/decoding. They would have to have dedicated silicon for whatever codec to not make this a huge battery drain.

320Kbps MP3 is not supported by every implementation of A2DP, and certainly not likely to be supported by most bluetooth headsets out there. They most likely only support the mandatory SBC codec.

Re:Wireless earpods with HQ audio

[grumbel5969]

Standard Bluetooth audio quality is so bad that the quality of the earplugs doesn't even enter into the discussion. When you want to use the mic on a Bluetooth headset you have to use the HSP profile which can only do mono at like 8000Hz, it is completely unusable by modern standards. When you don't need the mic you can get acceptable quality with A2DP, but then you are stuck with latency of up to half a second, which renders it unusable for anything interactive.

I heard one can better results with aptX, but there seems to be no easy way to tell who supports it or when it's actually in use.

Long story short, finding reliable information on Bluetooth audio is hard and the chance that you end up with absolutely horrible audio quality is pretty damn high. If Apple can clean up that situation, more power to them.

Re: Wireless earpods with HQ audio

[Anonymous Coward]

When someone calls an earphone or IEM as earpods, you know he has been infected

Completely crap idea !

[Anonymous Coward]

This whole idea is complete and utter crap.

Sorry that I can't add anything more intelligent to the discussion as there's nothing else worth mentioning on the subject.

Gotta love it

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course it's "Bluetooth-like" and not standard Bluetooth.

Re:Gotta love it

[Opportunist]

The security of Bluetooth paired with the compatibility of a nonstandard protocol.

I can't use earbuds.

[Required Snark]

Using earbuds is not a viable option for me. Putting things in my ears causes medical problems and my ears clog up.

How long will it be until there are compatible headsets available? And how much will they cost? And will they even work or have acceptable battery life?

I have a sinking feeling that I'm going to have very few options for my smartphone headset in the future. Not much choice and stupidly high prices.

Why is this happening? Because the two manufacturers who matter, Apple and Samsung, are having a pissing contest over who's phone is thinner. So Samsung has to recall phones that are catching fire and Apple has phones where the touch interface fails because the case flexes and solder pads disconnect from a chip. Both these engineering failures happen because cramming reliable electronics into such a slim case is nearly impossible.

Given a choice between a phone as thick as the previous generation that was reliable and had a longer battery life, pretty much any human being on the planet would choose a thicker phone. I bet that a phone twice as thick with really long battery life would sell in vastly greater numbers then any of the current crap. But we don't get that choice. Marketeers and designers who are completely out of touch dictate what choices we have, and they don't give a damn about what we want.

Just another case of pretend capitalism. Nothing to see here, move along.

Re:I can't use earbuds.

[Anonymous Coward]

How long will it be until there are compatible headsets available?

There are already bluetooth and lighting headphones available so you won't have to wait anything.

Re:I can't use earbuds.

[AmiMoJo]

Don't they own Beats by Dre now? Hope you like booming bass and looking like a twat.

Re:I can't use earbuds.

[Anonymous Coward]

There's nothing pretend capitalist about this, most people can name a dozen or more smartphone companies. We've seen the emergence of a handful of new serious contenders from Asia in just the last couple of years. Many phones have been released with a key selling point being that they have better than normal battery life and they don't sell, so it's bullshit or ignorance to claim this is anything other than the market working as expected.

Does it make sense to me? Not really, but that doesn't make it some kind of manufacturer conspiracy. When we were looking at what phones to provide at work we asked people what they wanted and two things of note were that no one mentioned battery life as a key factor and most people wanted the iPhone 6s which has distinctly mediocre battery life.

Re:I can't use earbuds.

[drinkypoo]

have a sinking feeling that I'm going to have very few options for my smartphone headset in the future. Not much choice and stupidly high prices.
Why is this happening? Because the two manufacturers who matter, Apple and Samsung,

Neither Apple nor Samsung matters to me. I don't buy phones with a built-in dick-waving contest. I've managed to go this long without owning an Apple or Samsung phone and seem to be doing just fine. Work on it.

Re:I can't use earbuds.

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't buy apple for 'options'...

Re:I can't use earbuds.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Because the two manufacturers who matter, Apple and Samsung, are having a pissing contest over who's phone is thinner."

If that were really true, Apple could have used a 2.5mm or 1.8mm jack with very simple adapters, instead they're pushing a propriety solution that will push people towards Beats (which they own) headphones that will be the first to support the new standard, or third parties that have to pay a licensing fee to Apple.

It sounds more like an attempt to increase profitability using any excuse they think will fly.

Re:I can't use earbuds.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's "greater THAN", not "greater then"...

Re:I can't use earbuds.

[Anonymous Coward]

There's nothing pretend capitalist about this, most people can name a dozen or more smartphone companies.

"most people"? Where do you get your stats?

We've seen the emergence of a handful of new serious contenders from Asia in just the last couple of years.

Most of which do little marketing (visibility negligible compared to Apple and Samsung), and provide less support and - in some cases - very shoddy engineering. This will change, but it hasn't changed yet.

Many phones have been released with a key selling point being that they have better than normal battery life and they don't sell,

Yes, but that's nothing to do with the battery life claims.

Re:I can't use earbuds.

[cmseagle]

Given a choice between a phone as thick as the previous generation that was reliable and had a longer battery life, pretty much any human being on the planet would choose a thicker phone.

For less than $30 you can buy a phone case with an integrated battery pack that will double the thickness of your phone (++structural integrity) and quadruple your battery capacity. If you're on an iPhone it'll even effectively replace your Lightning charge port with some variant of USB. These things aren't a big secret, and yet the vast majority of smartphone users don't seem to own one.

Why? Maybe it's because massively profitable consumer electronics companies are actually pretty good at reading the market, and people complaining about not having a massive battery in their phone are a niche.

Re:I can't use earbuds.

[NotAPK]

I get your point, but the problem is one of scale. A lot of the external battery packs that I've seen are pretty much overkill for daily use. They seem to be designed for those that really need extra battery capacity, so the size doesn't matter.

A lot of the complaints about phone thickness have to do with adding 1-2mm (5-10%) to the phone and getting maybe 1-2 hours (5-10%) of extra use out of the device. That's what a lot of people posting here are after.

Re:I can't use earbuds.

[kilfarsnar]

When we were looking at what phones to provide at work we asked people what they wanted and two things of note were that no one mentioned battery life as a key factor and most people wanted the iPhone 6s which has distinctly mediocre battery life.

When I got my last new phone, I went with an iPhone 6+ precisely because of the longer battery life. The phone is too big, but the battery will last two days between charges. So there's that.

Re:I can't use earbuds.

[cmseagle]

Still overkill, but here's a $50 case that adds less than 1/4" to the thickness of the phone and doubles capacity. That leaves it thinner than the iPhone 3G.

My point isn't that an external battery pack will solve every user's problems. I take issue with OPs the claim that the marketing and design staff of two of the largest electronics companies in the world are either incompetent or controlled by some vast conspiracy because they aren't making a phone that suits his needs.

Re:I can't use earbuds.

[Dixie_Flatline]

What do you mean 'pretend capitalism'? This is EXACTLY capitalism. They put out a product, and you buy it or don't. Someone will either service your need because they can make money at it or they won't. That's the PROBLEM with capitalism. People on the margins always get screwed.

Anyway, you don't have to buy earbuds or keep the ones in the box. You'll probably be able to sell them, and over-the-ear headphones will be sold that work with lightning/usb-c in short order, I'm sure. There are already bluetooth ones.

Basically, Apple's change shouldn't mean much to you. The headphone market is still going to be quite robust.

Re:I can't use earbuds.

[blind biker]

Don't they own Beats by Dre now? Hope you like booming bass and looking like a twat.

Depends. If he's Australian, he'd look like a cunt. If he's American, he'd look like a douche. If he's a Brit, then yes, he'd look like a twat. Or a knob. :)

Re:I can't use earbuds.

[LynnwoodRooster]

So it takes a ~7mm thick phone and makes it ~13mm thick. Why that's nearly the same! The reality is there are shipping phones that are much thinner than the current iPhones (6mm thick, not 7mm) that have a full 3.5mm jack on them. This is not about making a thinner phone - this is about forcing a change in earbuds/headphones to a new proprietary protocol (Bluetooth-like). It's the wireless version of Firewire or Thunderbolt, applied to iOS. And we know how those other two options ended up...

Oh good.

[dohzer]

Oh good, the battery life is going to improve.
How about not having a battery in the first place?!

Re:Oh good.

[Rakshasa Taisab]

So basically old-style crank-up mobile phones?

Re:Oh good.

[Opportunist]

No, but maybe one where I can toss the battery when it goes bad instead of having to toss the phone or go to ridiculous lengths just to change the friggin' battery!

Re:Oh good.

[geekmux]

No, but maybe one where I can toss the battery when it goes bad instead of having to toss the phone or go to ridiculous lengths just to change the friggin' battery!

Agreed. Quite honestly, non-removable batteries in electronics should be illegal.

It's asinine and wasteful to throw away functional hardware based on battery life alone.

Re: Oh good.

[Anonymous Coward]

Even Apple will cheerfully replace the battery in your old iPhone, for a mere US$79. Still cheaper than a new phone.

Re:Oh good.

[Dog-Cow]

When was the last time someone had to throw away an iPhone due to a bad battery?

Re:Oh good.

[serviscope_minor]

Agreed. Quite honestly, non-removable batteries in electronics should be illegal.

I love it when they glue down the internal batteries because FUCK YOU THAT'S WHY!

I mean it's only completely enclosed and tightly packed anyway. And risking puncturing a delicate lithium cell as you remove it really adds to the excitement.

Re: Oh good.

[omnichad]

Even Apple will cheerfully replace your old iPhone with a refurbished one with a new battery, for a mere US$79. Still cheaper than a new phone.

There, FTFY

Re:Oh good.

[ArtemaOne]

Just short of two years ago. Changing the battery damaged connectors and the home or power button became non-functional.

So what's the best phone now?

[Anonymous Coward]

What's the best non-exploding phone that works with standard headphones?

Re:So what's the best phone now?

[Opportunist]

Nokia 7110.

Mine still works. OK, almost, the spring in the numpad cover rusted after I forgot it in my pants once too often and washed it. Must've been the spin cycle.

Bluetooth "like"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Meaning the inclusion of proprietary "improvements" that ensure that only Apple branded headsets/buds will work reliably, along with, several months later, those supplied by "audiophile" manufacturers who would have paid high prices for licences to produce compatible equipment and will thus pass on the cost to the consumer?

I can understand the appeal of Look! No Wires! but it should be an added value, not a result of a drive to make equipment that is overpriced, unnecessarily complex, unfeasibly thin and incompatible with the rest of the world.

Re:Bluetooth "like"?

[geekmux]

Meaning the inclusion of proprietary "improvements" that ensure that only Apple branded headsets/buds will work reliably, along with, several months later, those supplied by "audiophile" manufacturers who would have paid high prices for licences to produce compatible equipment and will thus pass on the cost to the consumer?

Wow, it's like you've got a crystal ball or something. (no, not joking, you're likely dead-on accurate with this prediction)

I can understand the appeal of Look! No Wires! but it should be an added value, not a result of a drive to make equipment that is overpriced, unnecessarily complex, unfeasibly thin and incompatible with the rest of the world.

Don't be so shocked. This is modus operandi for Apple, and quickly becoming the norm for the handful of other monopolies who are busy hoard-patenting the known universe under a fuck-you-very-much capitalistic model, forcing you to bend to their proprietary will.

Aaaaahhh Apple

[thegarbz]

The great innovative Apple. Want to waterproof a phone? No water proof jacks don't exist. Certainly not on every other water proof device. No siree the only way to water proof a phone is to remove the headphone jack. That's why we're doing this. Water proofing and because it's the only way. Not because we are driving vendor lockin, not due to some vain attempt at DRM but waterproofing.

In completely unrelated news come check out our new proprietary chips and headphones. Only twice as expensive as normal and with that top quality Beats sound.

Waterproofing

[Rik Sweeney]

Right, I've had enough. Why do I need a waterproof phone?

I have a waterproof watch because it's nice not to have to take the thing off when I shower or go for a swim, but a waterproof phone?

Apart from not having to worry when I take photos by the hotel pool, I can't realistically see why I'd need it to be waterproof. I guess a lot of people are Snapchatting while in the bath?

Re:Waterproofing

[geekmux]

Right, I've had enough. Why do I need a waterproof phone?

I have a waterproof watch because it's nice not to have to take the thing off when I shower or go for a swim, but a waterproof phone?

Apart from not having to worry when I take photos by the hotel pool, I can't realistically see why I'd need it to be waterproof. I guess a lot of people are Snapchatting while in the bath?

I know this is going to sound strange, but a man will meet you in the bathroom tomorrow right around the time you are standing up from the toilet when your phone falls out of your pocket and makes a nice splashing sound.

That man will go by the name of Murphy. You might recognize him. He made this one particular Law rather infamous...

TL; DR - Shit Happens.

Re:Waterproofing

[cerberusss]

Hey I remember you from Starfighter! You brought out a new game?! That's frikkin' awesome, I might just buy an Android phone to play this one.

Re:Waterproofing

[Cloud K]

Quite useful if you play Pokemon Go or Ingress in the UK. Also a lot of people seem to end up dropping them into puddles.

I have a Nexus though which is not stated to be water resistant so I just put it in a sandwich bag.

Re:Waterproofing

[serviscope_minor]

Right, I've had enough. Why do I need a waterproof phone?

You know when you're taking a whizz and you're trying to play a game one handed and then drop it in the bog? That's why. Or if you're there for the long haul and somehow manage to drop it between your legs.

Not that you can't get waterproof 3.5mm jacks anyway though.

Re:Waterproofing

[danbob999]

Right, I've had enough. Why do I need a waterproof phone?

Some people leave their basement. Canoe, sailing, swimming, there is a world outside.
Taking underwater pictures is a nice feature.

Baaaaaaah! Baaaaaaah!

[Anonymous Coward]

At this point, I rely solely on Bluetooth when listening to music. I have not plugged earphones into my smartphone for at least two years, probably longer. So I'm not quick to condemn the headphone jack's rumored disappearance. I just don't care.

Frankly, I cannot imagine what more Apple can do to improve the iPhone besides performance upgrades. Regardless of what it adds, though, people will line up to buy them on release day. Been there, done that.

Big man, pig man
ha-ha charade you are
You well-heeled big wheel
ha-ha charade you are

Custom Bluetooth? Bluetooth-Like?

[mschaffer]

Custom Bluetooth? Bluetooth-Like? Just call a duck a duck---or in this case it's called proprietary.

That's a decent excuse

[sabbede]

Not that they couldn't waterproof a 3.5mm jack, but it might have enough of an impact of the manufacture cost that the whole thing becomes reasonable. On NPR yesterday they were saying that the phones would be coming with a thunderbolt to 3.5mm adapter, making the move even less shitty. I still think it's shitty, just not as shitty as it had seemed.

Re: That's a decent excuse

[Anonymous Coward]

Headphone jacks cost a fraction of a cent, in those quantities. Far less than the added cost of putting a lightning connector on the bundled earbuds - let alone the external DAC that's also needed.

Re: That's a decent excuse

[Anonymous Coward]

It's bitztream, the autism-hating Slashdot troll!

Re:That's a decent excuse

[LynnwoodRooster]

The Lightning plug itself is an order of a magnitude more than you pay for a 3.5mm jack. Even a waterproof one. And we're not even including the cost of the IAP2 subsystem required in the device, the PCB for that, the housing - and yet another 3.5mm jack. I don't see how moving a jack from inside the phone to outside - and adding another connector, housing, and PCBA in between, is a cost-saving move.

Re: That's a decent excuse

[LynnwoodRooster]

Do you know any iPhone/iOS app doing that? While that might have been the original intent of the connector, Apple sells you a nice little Lightning Audio Module (about $5 in 1MM quantities, including licenses) to get analog out of your Lightning port. Meaning - in theory you may be correct, but in practice you're completely wrong.

Re:That's a decent excuse

[sabbede]

Yes, but the lightning port is going to have to be there whether or not there are any other ports. If what I heard (or what I think I heard) is right and they do include an adapter, it isn't going to save them anything in the short run, but I wouldn't expect to see it bundled with future models. If what I heard (miss-heard) was wrong, it is going to save them a little in the near term, but they might end up having to include an adapter in the future if consumers put up a stink.

Still, the waterproofing excuse holds up. Though I'd expect that it would be more of an internal space issue than a cost issue.

Of course, today Apple is claiming it's about "bravery" and standing up to convention and removing an "obsolete" port. Which is a load of bullshit in pretty much every direction.

Obligatory XKCD?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because an existing Bluetooth standard doesn't cover the "improve device's water resistance" use case...

https://xkcd.com/927/

Lightning ear buds provided, not an adapter?

[swb]

I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but why provide lightning based earbuds instead of a lightning to 3.5mm adapter?

I'm guessing that an adapter is electrically identical except it has a 3.5mm jack instead of actual tiny speakers.

I would think it would be cheaper to provide an adapter, but maybe I should dial up my cynicism and presume that an adapter sends the message "keep using your existing headphones" and lightning earbuds says "buy new headphones, your old ones are obsolete."

It starts to make me wonder if even a $39.95 Apple 3.5mm adapter will even be allowed to be sold with the idea that either consumers will have the choice of: just OK existing Bluetooth audio, Apple "enhanced" wireless for higher fidelity or direct lightning. Apple only misses a cut on the first one, but the tradeoff is whether standard BT audio is good enough.

Re:Lightning ear buds provided, not an adapter?

[dreamstateseven]

I totally see them making the $39.95 3.5mm adapter, at least to soften the "blow" in the immediate -- especially when you consider their unit cost on it would probably be less than $1. Don't forget about the $59.99 adapter that will let you charge and have 3.5mm headphones plugged in simultaneously.

Re:Lightning ear buds provided, not an adapter?

[LynnwoodRooster]

They sell such a module for OEM use; it's call the Lightning Audio Module. It's about $5 for the module and the licenses needed. Add in connectors (Lightning and 3.5mm), case, and power supply regulation and you're looking at a minimum BOM cost around $8. Meaning sell prices for $20-$40, minimum. It's the same module used in Audeze Sine headphones, and other 3rd party makers...

Wireless Earbuds

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm struggling to use earbuds. It seems that I am one of the statistical outliers. (Ear canals too narrow, ears too big - this may or may not be related to the acromegaly for which I am under treatment.)

If ear buds do not hurt me after a few minutes of use, they simply won't stay inside. Eating/singing/talking while listening on these exacerbates the problem. How people can actually run or do other vigorous activities is beyond my understanding. And the only thing helpful in this whole saga was the wires connected to them (I actually tied a shoelace to them to help further).

It seems that I will lose a lot of earbuds that don't have wires or any way of tying a securing string to them.

Which probably is also part of the point...

Apple repeating IBM's mistakes?

[Anonymous Coward]

IBM had a similar response to competition when it introduced "Microchannel Architecture" with the PS/2.That didn't go very well for them. IBM focused on hardware as their source of income and ignored the fact that that software had become more important than hardware. Feels like Apple is doing the same.

Whatever happened to Bone Phones @1977 ?

[jwillis84]

Those things that looked like squid you wrapped around your Collar bones pre-Walkman, so nobody could hear you jammin?

Re:Whatever happened to Bone Phones @1977 ?

[NotAPK]

These?

Re:Whatever happened to Bone Phones @1977 ?

[jwillis84]

Aftershokz .. love it.. Electrocution-gate

"Revolutionary Change"

[Anonymous Coward]

The sad part is that Apple thinks they are pioneering in an area and creating revolutionary change. Fans will always like there to be some 'difference' to rally around. But it's just the absence of a headphone jack on a pocket gadget.

The fact that there is a topic here to comment on at Slashdot proves that it's a fairly successful tactic.

Like bluetooth?

[sims 2]

So its like bluetooth but incompatible and doesn't make audio sound like crap like bluetooth does?

Push for new Bluetooth?

[dreamstateseven]

I'm not thrilled with the loss of the 3.5mm jack -- especially with the thought that other manufacturers could follow suit in the next few generations. Even with annoying dongles on the horizon, I don't see the analog hole ever being entirely plugged. Maybe this will start the push for a better (standardized) Bluetooth protocol? Perhaps one that can actually support lossless audio? I'm sure this would take a number of years before it becomes a standard and widely implemented enough ...

Let's see how it turns out

[LichtSpektren]

I don't typically buy i-devices because I dislike that their BIOS is locked down. That being said, I'll say this: if water resistance is just an excuse to sell Apple headphones, then yes, people should be upset about it.

However, if Apple is being honest and the iPhone 7 will actually have better environmental resistance than other phones on the market with the regular 3.5mm jack, then personally I think it should be welcomed. New iPhones are $600-800 depending on the configuration, making them more durable and rugged is worth the investment of having to pay for slightly more expensive headphones. I'll reserve judgment until real-world tests have been done on the iPhone 7's water resistance.

Re:horseshit

[Anonymous Coward]

And the Z5 handles this terribly by "detecting" plugged in headphones when it gets even slightly damp. And by detecting headphones I mean "there they notification, oh no they're not, repeat ad nausium.

I use Bluetooth headphones with my Z5, would not miss the port.

3.5mm jack will move to the case

[sjbe]

Do. Not. Want.

Then Do. Not. Buy.

Seriously if you don't like what Apple is doing buy something else that suits you. Apple products aren't supposed to be all things to all people. Personally the 3.5mm port of of little value to me (I'm not a big music listener) but I get why folks appreciate having it built in. What I think will happen is that you'll see a bunch of cases with an integrated 3.5mm jack. Since almost everyone puts a case on their phone anyway it makes reasonable sense. Then you don't have to carry a dongle with you if you use that jack routinely. Perhaps not quite as elegant as having it built in but a better solution than a dongle for many.

Re:3.5mm jack will move to the case

[lsatenstein]

Do. Not. Want.

Then Do. Not. Buy.

Seriously if you don't like what Apple is doing buy something else that suits you. Apple products aren't supposed to be all things to all people. Personally the 3.5mm port of of little value to me (I'm not a big music listener) but I get why folks appreciate having it built in. What I think will happen is that you'll see a bunch of cases with an integrated 3.5mm jack. Since almost everyone puts a case on their phone anyway it makes reasonable sense. Then you don't have to carry a dongle with you if you use that jack routinely. Perhaps not quite as elegant as having it built in but a better solution than a dongle for many.

My son and I gave up on Apple. The Iphone was too closed, and the amount of easily available cost effective software meant lockin. The phone apps were limited and not of the functionality found with Android.

Now we are happy, we have Android based phones; The operating system has updates and is maintained. And we have the software we required and instead of paying several hundred dollars for a phone, we found new non-Apple phones at half the price and twice the functionality and with longer battery time than the Iphone.

Why people buy Apple products

[sjbe]

It's brilliant and simple. Apple customers will buy anything.

Tell me, which Apple customer peed in your cereal this morning? If you want to critique Apple there are plenty of ways to do it that don't sound idiotic. Apple customers buy Apple products because *gasp* they like Apple products. Nobody buys Apple solely because it is made by Apple. No company can sell hundreds of millions of phones and computers if the product sucks. Much like Harley Davidson, Apple has cultivated a loyal fan base because they find value in what they sell. If it doesn't suit your needs and sensibilities then go ahead and buy something else. Trust me, nobody will care if you prefer Android or Blackberry or Windows.

Apple will make hundreds of millions on just these dumb, superfluous gadgets.

If people buy them that means they find value in them. I don't see the problem here.

Re:Why people buy Apple products

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple sells iphones in the numbers they do because they're seen as status symbols, and the majority of the populous are sheep

Re: Why people buy Apple products

[Anonymous Coward]

majority of US citizens are not power computer users who could recognize that everything that AAPL offers can be done (with some amount of computing education) more cheaply, more powerfully, and with more versatility on a Windows/Android platform.

No need to buy special headsets

[sjbe]

How long will it be until there are compatible headsets available? And how much will they cost? And will they even work or have acceptable battery life?

There will undoubtedly be a dongle available from day one so any headset that works with the iPhone 6 will probably work just fine with the iPhone 7. I suspect in short order you'll see cases with built in 3.5mm ports as well. Probably within weeks of release.

Same reasons

[sjbe]

I have a waterproof watch because it's nice not to have to take the thing off when I shower or go for a swim, but a waterproof phone?

Same reason. It would be nice to not have to worry about dropping it in a sink or getting caught in a downpour. It would be nice to be able to use the camera at the beach or in the water. How many people have had their phone fail or warranty voided by spilling a drink on their device? If it is waterproof that means it's largely dust proof as well which is pretty nice. You want a waterproof phone for the same reasons you want a waterproof watch.

Hearing aids.

[sbaker]

So, thanks to an over-enthusiastic use of headphones in my youth, I now have to boost high frequencies with a pair of hearing aids if I want a hope of understanding conversation and enjoying music. These are not your grandmother's contraptions. They are all-but invisible, they communicate with each other using ultrasound pulses sent through my skull to help to spatialize sound more effectively and to dynamically adjust to ambient sound levels and such. They are pretty nifty devices - and produce really good audio quality, even for my sub-par ears. A pair of good ones will cost you (or, ideally, your HMO) around $6,000 - but even with decent health insurance, it still cost me $1,300 to get a pair fully tweaked to my specific needs.

Now, when I want to listen to music...well, I can't wear earbuds because my ears are already full of hearing aids and over-ear headphones tend to cause audio feedback in my hearing aids...so that's out. But no problem, the hearing aid designers thought of that - and my hearing aids have bluetooth! So I can pair them with my phone/laptop/TV and listen to high quality audio through my hearing aids! Magic! This is actually better than normal hearing because they can automatically turn off real-world sound while I'm listening to music - and turn down the music when they hear someone talking to me - and at $6,000 a pair, as you might expect, the audio quality is on a par with the best earbuds money can buy!

Now, Apple claim to have a "bluetooth-like" interface...um...so not *actual* standards-compliant bluetooth then? Great - thanks guys. Smart move. Replace a perfectly good, established standard with a piece of proprietary crap. Sure, that might persuade enough of your customers to dump their perfectly good earbuds/headphones to buy your contraptions instead - but there is no way for me to do that.

Oh - but wait! I have a fallback position! My hearing aids come with a small device that can be used as a remote control - it has a jack socket and a built-in bluetooth transmitter so all I have to do is...WTF!?!...no jack plug either? Oh for chrissakes.

The point here being that you can't just come along and define a new standard in order to force people to buy your stupid earbuds - because a good slice of the population can't use them. You can't even come up with iHearingAids because I can't afford to pay $6,000 for a new pair every time some company decides it would be fun to corner the earbud market by deliberately flouting standards...and even if they DID make iHearingAids - they probably wouldn't work with my non-Apple computer and my non-Apple TV.

Title IV of the Americans With Disabilities Act requires that all telecommunications companies in the U.S. take steps to ensure "functionally equivalent services" for consumers who are deaf or hard of hearing. I'm not sure this applies here - but it damned well should!

Even for people with good hearing - do you really want one set of earbuds for your phone - and different ones for your computer?

OK then - Android phones it is. Way to go Apple - you just wiped out your market with all of us hearing-aid wearers.

Re:Hearing aids.

[Anonymous Coward]

thats apple for you, profits over people

Re:Hearing aids.

[omnichad]

I don't think they're getting rid of Bluetooth/A2DP. So you're fine.

Re:Hearing aids.

[Anonymous Coward]

I would hope they are still planning on supporting the A2DP profile, otherwise they're gona have lots of pissed off users that cant bluetooth to their car stereo or use an aux cable. Oh wait im sure people will just buy new cars to support their new itoy. It will be funny to see the 1st lawsuit apple is involved in because someone was using their new earbuds while driving because they were unable to bluetooth or use an aux cable to their stereo.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I predict in 5 years

[bennebw]

if Apple indeed ditches the 3.5, then > 50% of new smartphones will ship without a 3.5mm jack and they won't all be Apple. The 3.5 jack will become a legacy "feature" selling point like an SD slot or a replaceable battery. But then again, we might all have hover boards before this happens and I'd be wrong, and not for the first time, so flame on, amigos!

Cool

[backwardsposter]

Another expensive thing that will break. Which means my wife spending even more money

Re: horseshit

[BarbaraHudson]

Let's not forget that Apple is no longer driven by the idea of making better products. Nobody is screaming that they want better water resistance - most would probably want them to take a step backwards and offer larger, replaceable batteries. That, of course, would mean more people keeping their phones longer. Seriously, did anyone that that a nonreplaceable battery was an advantage to anyone except Apple? If it's so great, why not do it with their laptops. This should properly be framed as a restraint of trade issue.

Re:horseshit

[fahrbot-bot]

'improve device's water resistance'

Several phones have already been released (eg: Sony Z5) with exposed headphones sockets without compromising water resistance. Poor justification is poor.

My Kyocera HydroVIBE (released in 2014) has an exposed 3.5mm headphone jack is "Certified dust resistant and waterproof for IP57 (IPX5 and IPX7) - protection against dust and water immersion for up to 30 minutes in up to 3.28 feet (1 meter) of water." So, what is Apple trying to achieve?

Re:horseshit

[2ms]

Didn't Sony recall the Sony Z5, tell all its customers that it was just kidding about the phone being waterproof, and then get the crap sued out of itself for it? I actually literally have a friend who's Z5 failed just from getting some rain on it while he was hiking. Sony sent him a new one but the whole reason he had boughten it was that he thought it could go underwater, but it turned out to possibly actually be the least water tolerant phone he has ever owned.

Re: horseshit

[2ms]

Why do you feel its competitors copying Apple by making unibody phones? The newest Samsungs are virtually indistinguishable from iPhone 6.

Re: horseshit

[Anonymous Coward]

your right!!! apple should sue them

Re: horseshit

[MachineShedFred]

You do know that their laptops haven't had replaceable batteries for some time now, right? And that when they made this change, it was because they could use more volume inside the laptop for energy cell, and less on latches, casing, bulky connectors, etc.

It's one of the reasons you can use a 2-year old MacBook Pro, on WiFi, practically all day without plugging in - something that still escapes some laptop manufacturers.

Yep, I made a mistake

[Anonymous Coward]

I knew I made a mistake all those years ago, buying my wife an iPod because it was the device that really fit her. (While I'm an MP3 player owning kind of guy. Even though I have an iPhone, my music is bought from Amazon as DRM-free mp3, and I'd go back to a 32 gig mp3 player if work ever takes my smartphone away.)

Re: horseshit

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple's slogan isn't think better, it's think different. Confirmation bias makes people remember their successes, like removing the floppy drive, but they've had just as many failures. Different != Better.

charging

[fluffernutter]

Since I usually play music for long periods of time while I am sitting I normally listen to music while my phone is plugged in. Will lightning port headphones allow the phone to be charged while listening with them?

Re: horseshit

[Anonymous Coward]

Sony didn't recall the z5. They deemphasised the water proof claims made for the previous generation because people where using them in Salt and chlorinated water without rinsing them in fresh water, as directed in the manual, leading to seal failures. Both models had the same waterproof and dust ratings though. It was great for rain, not so good for diving into a pool with.

Re: horseshit

[jellomizer]

They may not be screaming they want better water resistance... However water damage and cracked displays are the big killer of cell phones.
With the phones accidentally getting washed with laundry, falling into the "sink" or "tub" (they probably will never admit that it fell in the toilet)

Then there is damage on the screen when it falls.

That is why every generation of phone seems to be getter better glass and better waterproofing. Because if your iPhone dies outside the upgrade period you may not have the money for a full replacement so you will get the cheaper alternative.

Tim Cook needs to step down.

[Anonymous Coward]

He's not an engineer, and he sure as hell doesn't have a sense of design.

Cook needs to retire and let someone who is actually competent take control of Apple.

I won't buy ANY iPhone that lacks a headphone jack, so it looks like Apple has made sure
it won't get any more of my phone money. Sincerely, fuck them and their arrogance - I've had
enough.

Re: horseshit

[MikeMo]

Here we have a long thread of people commenting on whether or not going wireless to be waterproof is a good idea, and the whole thing is made up by the first poster.

Re: horseshit

[Anonymous Coward]

Nobody is screaming that they want better water resistance

I know too many people who would have loved water a resistant phone instead of having to replace one dropped in liquid. I've done it myself.

Seriously, did anyone that that a nonreplaceable battery was an advantage to anyone except Apple? If it's so great, why not do it with their laptops.

Have you ever replaced an Apple laptop battery? It's about as much work as replacing a phone battery, ie not for the novice, but perfectly possible. Once again, there is no conspiracy here, the point is that in the life of a phone the battery needs to be replaced maybe once or twice. This does not warrant an easily opened, flimsy, cover that can be lost, broken and lets in dust and moisture. End of story.

Re: horseshit

[Anonymous Coward]

First poster was quoting the summary Mr observant.

And, Yet More Batteries!

[0xG]

Battery management is already a PITA for all the various digital devices, now Apple has made it even worse.
You will have to buy Apple-only chargers.
Any bets that the batteries will be proprietary format and non-replaceable?

Targetting the high-end market? Seriously?

[acoustix]

There's nothing high-end about Bluetooth connectivity. And in most cases you're re-compressing a lossy compressed source. This pretty much confirms that I will not buy any of these devices. I have all of my albums ripped to lossless file formats and that's the way I like it.

Don't think parent has a point? You will.

[jeffb (2.718)]

Mod parent up.

Most of Slashdot's audience probably doesn't suffer from significant hearing loss -- yet. But the more time you spend listening to things over non-isolating earbuds, necessarily turned up loud enough to be clear over ambient sounds, the more your hearing will suffer in the long term.

Now, personally, I'm hoping that I follow in my father's footsteps, not my mother's, and retain good hearing at least through my 80s. I also hope that research on hearing restoration -- not just hearing aids or implants, but actually regenerating damaged cells and structures -- will yield effective and affordable treatments in time for me. Heck, I'd like implants that give me better than standard hearing. But that's not where we are now, and wishing doesn't help people who are currently hearing-impaired.

Until these problems are solved -- heck, even after these problems are solved -- I'll continue to complain when companies assume all customers are alike, all customers want the same thing, and the company's job is to convince users of this rather than accommodating them.

They've got you by the short hairs

[Anonymous Coward]

... and they know it. They've spent years locking you into their music and DRM. Of course this isn't about water resistance, it's about selling you a phone, and now extra accessories. ... "ohhh.. don't want to low end POS lightning cable jack? Here we have on display a $150 set of beats"

Most will simply roll over and take it - not wanting to undertake a contact/app/music migration effort. Shitty charging cables.. and now a shitty headphone system

Christ, can you even get an Android phone without it being laden with a shit ton of bloat ware that's vendor locked in?

Re: horseshit

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm fine with the built in battery solution. External battery packs are more compatible and are approximately the same amount of stuff to carry in my bag. Plus they work for multiple devices from multiple manufacturers (being a generic USB on-the-go power source).

I really want my phone to be completely waterproof.

My concern is that I don't want to have to charge some bluetooth headphones every few hours. And if I use a cabled headphone then I can't charge? That'll suck.

"entirely wire free"?

[jeffb (2.718)]

In other words, whatever they cost, you'll be buying multiple pairs. Because when one falls out, there's nothing to catch it, and sooner or later -- no, just make that "soon" -- you'll lose one where you can't find it, or can't retrieve it, or can't un-soak or un-foul or un-trample it. And if you lose one, you can't very well just replace the missing one; naturally, they'll only ever be sold in pairs.

I think entirely wire-free earbuds are a great idea -- when they're marketed as disposable, and priced accordingly. If they're going to market these as a higher-end alternative to the already-overpriced Beats, that's not happening.

Re:"entirely wire free"?

[jeffb (2.718)]

On the other hand, I just finished replying to (and agreeing with) someone singing the praises of his $6000 hearing aids, so perhaps I'm just an idiot who shouldn't be trusted with good gear.

Re: horseshit

[macs4all]

Nobody is screaming that they want better water resistance

Nobody except us iPhone owners, that is...

most would probably want them to take a step backwards and offer larger, replaceable batteries.

Again, speak for yourself, Barbara.

I get several DAYS usage out of my iPhone 6 Plus. If I can't find a charger within that much time, I'm not trying very hard. And considering I can get a half-charge in 20 mins from my car charger, or a complete-from-dead to 100% charge in under 2 hours from my home charger, it doesn't bother me one bit that the battery in my iPhone isn't replaceable. Not to mention that that "feature" is getting pretty damned rare in smartphones, regardless of brand/platform.

If it's so great, why not do it with their laptops.

Seriously, if you are doing home-ECT, Up the Voltage (teasing)!

Apple had some laptops a while back that had replaceable batteries; but that hasn't been a "thing" for quite a while now. Unless you mean "screwdriver-replaceable".

Re: horseshit

[macs4all]

Why do you feel its competitors copying Apple by making unibody phones? The newest Samsungs are virtually indistinguishable from iPhone 6.

You mean, just like the original Samsung smartphones were virtually indistiguishable from the original iPhone.

Re: horseshit

[macs4all]

Different != Better.

It is if we're talking about all other computing platforms besides Apple's, both mobile and desktop.

Oh great

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

Great- another fucking thing that needs a battery. Or is that two things? Either way, it's fucking stupid.

Because a wired device is just so quaint, right Apple? The whole "waterproofing" angle is utter bullshit- a 3.5mm jack is easy to waterproof. Or is Apple telling us that waterproofing the jack is beyond their technical ability? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

The 3.5mm jack is one of the the most standardized connectors in the history of electronics and it works just fine, so OF COURSE we must throw it away and use something so we can force people to either buy an adapter for it or a whole new set of earbuds or headphones. At the same time we can encumber it with DRM. Yippee!

Fuck you, Apple.

Re: horseshit

[sexconker]

Firewire, ADC, one button mice, endless shitty remotes, terrible lamp style iMac revisions that resulted in GPU/mobo failures due to overheating, a joke of a server line, the seemingly-intentional destruction of the Mac Pro line, the continued neglect of the Macbook Pro line, the iPad 3 they tried to pretend didn't exist just a few months after it came out, sticking with Power PC for nearly a decade too long, the attempt to use the Apple TV to wrangle content control, "Super Drives" that had about a 50% chance of just eating your CD/DVD/etc., mid 2000s laptops with overheating issues (other than those caused by Nvidia), antenna gate / you're holding it wrong, AT&T exclusivity, Apple Maps, etc. etc.

Re: horseshit

[Solandri]

Because most of the idiots in the press (including popular online review sites) are enamored with Apple, and their reviews constantly criticize everything any other manufacturers do differently. Thanks to them we've gotten non-replaceable batteries, briefly lost the microSD slot, glass backs, and "premium" metal bodies which dent on impact instead of superior plastic which simply bounces back into shape. All so they can have sleek and shiny devices that feel good in their hands, instead of functional devices that are actually more durable despite how they feel.

Re: horseshit

[negRo_slim]

Your English lessons are coming along swimmingly.

Re: horseshit

[tnk1]

Apple has always been that way. Steve Jobs always wanted to make things into appliances that you didn't dig into the internals of from the beginning. Partly from aesthetics, partly out of making it feel magical, and partly because it makes people need to replace that stuff with new Apple products. Replacing your battery would never have made it into an iPhone. Ever. Not while Steve Jobs was alive, and probably not while Tim Cook is CEO either.

If you know what you are getting with an Apple device, you will never be surprised. I personally have no issue with their philosophy, with the understanding that if I don't want to spend the cash on their stuff, I need to go get an Android phone.

Of course, I note that all of my iPhones other than my first, have been provided by the place I work. So, I am not trying to suggest that the Apple way of buying things all the time is a great idea. I might have an Android phone now if my iPhone was not provided. Although I should point out, I do have other Android devices, and they have some big, if somewhat different, problems too.

Re: horseshit

[tnk1]

That tends to suggest, however, that Apple cares that you lose your device. They don't.

Oh sure, they don't want your device to be brittle or stop working in high humidity or other moist ambient conditions, because people will not get enough use out of the devices to make them worth buying again. But that's not the same thing as them giving a crap if you are clumsy and drop it in a fountain or toilet somewhere.

The small amount of water resistance that removing that jack would add would not add much, if anything to the value of that phone. They probably made a ordered list of improvements to the phone, and someone mentioned water resistance somewhere close to the bottom. You can imagine that they swapped the place on that list for "water resistance" with "shareholder value" when they went to press with the marketing material.

Re:horseshit

[tnk1]

So, what is Apple trying to achieve?

Having something better to say that sounds better than, "driving sales of new official Apple and Beats branded products and accessories".

Re: horseshit

[gweilo8888]

I suggest not mistreating your phone, then. My Z2 has the exact same waterproof headphone jack, and I have never seen what you describe even once, not even after total immersion. You'll pry my headphone jack from my cold, dead hands...

Re: horseshit

[gweilo8888]

Yup. This has nothng to do with water resistance (my existing phone with exposed headphone jack is already 100% waterproof, and so is my tablet.) It is 100% about giving Apple a new revenue stream with licensing fees for the intentionally proprietay hardware.

Re: horseshit

[gweilo8888]

Then your friend either mistreated the phone or got a lemon, which happens with every brand including Apple. My Z2 has the exact same headphone jack and has been totally immersed multiple times without even the slightest hint of an issue.

oh good grief!

[Thud457]

Why can't you just tell him to blow on it?!!1


It's time-tested tradition that over time the magic smoke settles into the bottom. You might need to blow in the slot to get the magic smoke circulating properly again.

Presentation: SHINY!

[74Carlton]

Literally the first feature of the new iPhone: More shiny!

Hilarious.

Headphones while driving

[sjbe]

Mind you, with the near-demise of manual shift in cars, wired headphones are tolerable...

DaFuq? Why would you use headphones while driving a car? I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone do that and it's a bad idea regardless. Cars have speakers and it's generally trivial to connect to them. I plugged a bluetooth adapter into the 3.5mm port already built into my car. (yes I've used a wire too but bluetooth is less bother in this instance) You can also get adapters turn your phone into a mini radio station and just tune the dial.

Re: horseshit

[Anonymous Coward]

With a non-replaceable battery your phone can never be truly off - that suits some organisations very well

Using its OWN bluetooth chip

[p51d007]

If not backwards compatible, ie: PAY UP SUCKERS

New headphones backward compatible?

[ArtemaOne]

I was considering getting the new earbuds that came with the iPhone 7 for my iPhone SE (6 innards). Does the fact that this is only Bluetooth-like mean that it will not function on older Apple devices? I guess I'll look into the 3rd party Bluetooth stuff if not.

Re: horseshit

[Anonymous Coward]

Z5 jack is open, not plugged, so is not "waterproof" not claimed to be. The rest of the phone is supposed to be though. The problem is water gets into the jack, completes a circuit and then the phone thinks the headphones have been plugged in, and out, and in again, over and over...

Re: horseshit

[gweilo8888]

Methinks you don't know what "waterproof" means. The headphone jack has to be waterproof if unplugged, or the phone itself can't be waterproof. Whether water can get into the area of the jack where it's designed to be allowed doesn't change the fact that it's waterproof *in the areas it is supposed to be*.

Also, fresh water is a poor conductor, so it should not be meaningfully completing a headphone circuit -- at least, if you dropped your phone into just water. Now, if you dropped it in dirty or salt water (which is all I can presume from your complaint), that's an entirely different situation -- and one neither existing waterproof phones with headphone jacks *and* the new iPhone are designed to survive. Check the manual for both and it will specifically tell you not to immerse the phone in salt water.

All I can tell you is that my phone has been immersed in fresh water multiple times, mostly by mistake, but as designed it continued to work just fine, and as soon as the touch-screen was dried, did not show any untoward behavior of any kind -- and that includes complaining about headphones. But even if that really happened to you, one shake of the phone would have been enough to remove the water from the headphone jack and stop the problem.

Re: horseshit

[Anonymous Coward]

Z5 ISN'T waterproof anymore - Sony have backtracked on that somewhat.

The phone doesn't break if you get it wet in the rain but doesn't work properly either...

And don't tell me I'm not getting it wet right FFS.

Re: horseshit

[gweilo8888]

It's not advertised as waterproof any more, but as has been widely demonstrated, it's still waterproof. (Yes, that's the Z5 Compact, but numerous videos out there show the Z5 being similar dunked.) They just don't want to pay to repair phones which were abused (immersed with a flap not properly closed, immersed deeper or longer than stated, immersed in non-fresh water, etc.) And sorry, but if you know anything about anything, you know why it matters whether you're immersing it in fresh, clean water or in water tainted by salt and other chemicals. And sorry, but I don't believe for one second that your phone misbehaved merely from rain (unless you simply didn't dry the touch-screen before trying to use it, that is.)

Re: horseshit

[Anonymous Coward]

The phone itself works fine when wet! It's just that I had to turn off the headphones plugged in/out notification (I forget where/how) as it was triggering in/out/in/out over and over when damp. I've never immersed the phone in water, that's jusy begging for trouble...

The touchscreen works fine when the phone is wet though which is quite impressive. Phone got wet playing Pokemon Go a couple of times :) I guess a raindrop landed in the jack (the one I don't use - that's how all this got started).

Re: horseshit

[jellomizer]

That cheaper alternative are android phones.
Also a lot of people will try to return a broken iPhone even if it is water damage they will see if they can get a refund and a good portion of them do.
It isn't they love their customers. But to keep them and prevent them from cheating them.

Re: horseshit

[macs4all]

With a non-replaceable battery your phone can never be truly off - that suits some organisations very well

A metal box takes care of that. You can even get one to match that hat...

How times have changed

[Anonymous Coward]

Remember when Slashdot became a haven for Apple Fanboys and you would get modded down if you said anything bad about Apple? What happened to those fools?

Re: horseshit

[BarbaraHudson]

People were making unibody phones long before Apple made a smartphone. Remember the "candybar" form factor phones? And the really big unibody phones that looked like industrial walkie-talkies? All unibody. Flip phones were a later innovation.

Re: horseshit

[BarbaraHudson]

So, expensive laptops that you'll upgrade rather than pay to install a new battery and not have your machine while they do it. Losers. Now that the reviews of the iPhone 7 are in, everyone is saying that Apple is no longer an innovator. They're right. Apple stock is down more than 2% the day after their announcement and it's only 10 am.

Better to dump the hardware lines and sell only software. The manufacturers already do the hardware at very low margins, and people aren't going to continue to let Apple charge a premium for what is now just another phone or computer at the hardware level.

Re: horseshit

[BarbaraHudson]

My Motorola G has been dropped onto asphalt face down and not even a scratch. Apple doesn't have a monopoly on Gorilla Glass, and having a plastic body to absorb shock rather than a metal case helps. The metal bodies are a dumb idea that increases cost, reduces scratch resistance, and doesn't offer increased strength ("am I bending it right?"). Style over function isn't smart. It's just a phone/laptop, made by the same manufacturers that make everyone else's phones and laptops.

Re: horseshit

[BarbaraHudson]

Teach you to use both hands when using your phone while using the toilet.

Re: horseshit

[BarbaraHudson]

It doesn't when you can't do a hard reset using the buttons. Same with laptops. Sometimes you just have to cut all power.

Re: horseshit

[rthille]

I'd love a very water resistant phone. Just the other day I took a step backward trying to see better onto my roof and nearly fell into the pool, fully clothed, phone in pocket. Did the whole whirly-arms thing which saved me. So yeah, if the expensive computer in my pocket were waterproof, that'd be great.

Who cares what you use?

[sjbe]

My son and I gave up on Apple.

Why do the rest of us care? What does this have to do with the 3.5mm jack? Seriously if you like Android that's cool. It's a good system. I don't really care what you use and neither does anyone else.

The Iphone was too closed, and the amount of easily available cost effective software meant lockin. The phone apps were limited and not of the functionality found with Android.

You're just making things up. If you like Android better that is fine but there is no meaningful advantage in functionality in Android and the number of iOS apps is certainly not "limited" under any accepted definition of the term. Lots of people find iOS suits their needs fine. Others find Android a better fit. Pick the one that works for you and spare us your nonsensical advocacy.

Now we are happy, we have Android based phones; The operating system has updates and is maintained.

Now we know you are lying because few Android based phones get reliable updates. It's actually one of the serious problems with the platform.