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Scientists Unveil Plans For First Space Nation 'Asgardia,' Open Citizenship Applications (theguardian.com)
Scientists and legal experts have unveiled plans for the "first nation state in space." The state is called "Asgardia" after one of the mythical worlds inhabited by the Norse gods, and it will eventually become a member of the United Nations -- complete with its own flag and anthem. The Guardian reports: According to the project website, Asgardia "will offer an independent platform free from the constraint of a land-based country's laws. It will become a place it in orbit which is truly 'no man's land.'" Initially, it would seem, this new nation will consist of a single satellite, scheduled to be launched next year, with its citizens residing firmly on terra firma. Speaking to the Guardian through an interpreter, the project lead Igor Ashurbeyli, said: "Physically the citizens of that nation state will be on Earth; they will be living on different countries on Earth, so they will be a citizen of their own country and at the same time they will be citizens of Asgardia." "When the number of those applications goes above 100,000 we can officially apply to the UN for the status of state," he added. According to the project website, "Any human living on Earth can become a citizen of Asgardia," with the site featuring a simple registration form. At the time of writing more than 1000 individuals had already signed up. At present, the Outer Space Treaty that underpins international space law states that responsibility and liability for objects sent into space lies with the nation that launched them. But the project team claims that Asgardia will set a new precedent, shifting responsibility to the new "space nation" itself. "The existing state agencies represent interests of their own countries and there are not so many countries in the world that have those space agencies," said Ashurbeyli. "The ultimate aim is to create a legal platform to ensure protection of planet Earth and to provide access to space technologies for those who do not have that access at the moment."
I can't help but read that at ass-guardian...as in CYA?
It's named after a mythical place mostly known for staring in a comic book hero movie and they're concerned about having a flag and an anthem.
Seems like they have their priorities straight.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
Although this is highly impractical, as you can't fit 100,000 people in a space station nor do they have money for such a thing, the idea of a country based solely on personal membership as opposed to land borders is an intriguing one...
"Set a man a fire, he'll be warm for the rest of the night. Set a man afire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
I for one will not recognise it. Reinstate Pluto, you right rotten rat-bastards, then we'll talk.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Note that North Korea is part of the countries that may apply for Asgardia citizenship. That is a good way for them to escape their dictatorial country.
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
What about the Outer Space Treaty which prevents ownership of by celestial objects by nation states?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
The treaty explicitly forbids any government from claiming a celestial resource such as the Moon or a planet. Art. II of the Treaty states that "outer space, including the Moon and other celestial bodies, is not subject to national appropriation by claim of sovereignty, by means of use or occupation, or by any other means". However, the State that launches a space object retains jurisdiction and control over that object.[4] The State is also liable for damages caused by their space object.
This means that that at best a space nation would have to consist of one or more "grouped" space stations, which would cost many tens if not hundreds of trillions of dollars, and still likely not be entirely self-sufficient and independent from Earth. Even with all that, a space station would likely not be considered a nation, any more than a cruise ship or oil platform is currently.
If you want you own country, it would be far easier and cheaper to claim some rock in the middle of the ocean, away from any 300 nautical mile national exclusion zone, or better yet just buy out or take over a poor failing state.
The perfect tax haven. Soon, all of Apple's profits will be recorded as happening in Asgardia at a 0% tax rate.
This space intentionally left blank
Apropos line from an early season of the Simpsons, spoken by Stephen Hawking:
"You could have had a Utopia; instead you have a Fruitopia."
#DeleteChrome
So what prevents another $GROUP on earth to sell membership (and passports), even if they do not have satellite in orbit?
Free, as in your money being freed from the confines of your account.
> According to the project website, "Any human living on Earth can become a citizen of Asgardia.." If they can get there. It's probably a good way of ensuring that only very rich people become citizens. I mean the citizens who will actually live in orbit, rather than the dues-paying plebeian scum living on the ground. Unless people think that being a "citizen of Asgardia" gives them diplomatic immunity on Earth, in which case it's just Sovereign Nation garbage again.
Make Asgardia great again!
All citizens will use Dvorak keyboards, the metric system, drive on right hand side of the road, nonsmoking, use vi text editor, do not use system d
Citizenship is allowed for those who live on Earth? For a 'space nation'? The vast majority of 'citizens' will be those still living on Earth, until that policy is changed (even with space elevators/habitats). Since those on Earth will be the majority, it's unlikely the policy will be changed so that the majority would disenfranchise themselves. This'll lead to a situation where those in space are living under the rule of those on Earth. There'll inevitably be conflict between how those on Earth think the space nation should conduct itself, and how those actually in space want to do things. Of course, they'll have big, heavy things (like a space colony) they can drop on us. I recommend investing in Gundanium.
Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
that would have me as a member. - Groucho Marx
It's all fun and games until they institute a tax collection policy, with the recognition of the UN behind them as a sovereign nation with the right to enforce it...
"The ultimate aim is to create a legal platform..."
Ah, so another corporate tax haven, out there floating in no tax land.
Got it.
Build what?
Hi! We're selling citizenship to Sealan...err...Asgardia! Our own made-up nation that, at the earliest opportunity, will join the UN!
Holy shitcakes Batman! The Bat-Bullshit detector just disappeared up it's own asshole!
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Would we have to renounce our current citizenship?
If deported, where would we be sent?
And what are the taxes like for Asgardians?
If I'm not a sexist but claim that I am, is that good enough?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
... an Asgardian?
No there isn't. -- @realDonaldTrump
That's an interesting concept, and I am quite tempted to register. But I would like to have some additional guarantees.
Having an open policy about finances would be a plus: I don't want some tax money, however little it is, to fall into an individual's hands, just to disappear the next day.
n/t
No, you need to actually grab some pussy to qualify
Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
Sounds very hokey. It's as if you're creating a corporation and then making yourself a citizen of that imaginary entity. For what? To avoid all the messy stuff like local laws that you will claim no longer apply to you? Why is this on Slashdot at all? Just try getting a job without a work visa -- oh wait, THAT is why it's on Slashdot!
>> Build what?
Most people don't read the fine article but it appears you didn't even read the article post.
Here let me help you by quoting from the article summary: "Initially, it would seem, this new nation will consist of a single satellite, scheduled to be launched next year, with its citizens residing firmly on terra firma."
A nation is only as good as its ability to defend itself. Until a power like the US or China comes in and dictates its will, this is nothing more than show.
... Elon Musks Massive Mars Flight Presentation and now this.
Just because we have better and more realistic computer animation today doesn't make these 'ambitions' any less "new agegy".
It would make more sense to first finish Auroville or found a Quasi National Entity as an independant organisation for improving things here on earth.
I'm pretty sure that we need a Skyhook/Space Elevator before we can seriously start settling in space, be it on mars or on some massive space station. No way are we going to get matierials for projects like these into space consistently with regular rockets. Not in these payload sizes. I just don't see it happening.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
I propose Bitcoin will be the currency for this new sovereign state!
When the Chinese, Russians, and Americans "trangress" in their territory....
Where will the $50 trillion dollars necessary to build it come from?
See, there's actually a difference between saying you're going to do something and actually doing it.
This is nothing new. I've worked with a lot of PhDs. Most, if not all, are completely bonkers socially and totally out of touch with reality. They spend so much time in the 'academia' fantasy land hyper-focused on their specialty, that even "stuper-doofus" names like dumb Ass-gardia sounds good to them. What a laugh riot.
The real irony is they indulge in infantilization of those around them, or anyone who disagrees with them, so as not to have to actually deal with their loony tendencies. Assgardia is a (heavily smoked) pipe dream.
I don't see how this is different that placing a ship in international waters and claiming it is a country.
Only with the twist that the ship would be unmanned.
It's not a country, it's a derelict.
How do I buy ass..err land on Assgardia?
" *and* to provide access to space technologies for those who do not have that access at the moment."
Ya know... countries who poured zillions into the education of their citizens, research, training, manufacturing etc. They deserve to enjoy the benefits of space before others. Musk will be providing field trips on his magic school bus soon enough. Best to charge admission and recoup some costs before all the moochers jump on board and stink the thing up with curry.
This is not much more than a glorified WordPress blog. Why would you post this?
Scientists and legal experts! oh my! In the Guardian! Slashdot is fetting into drudge/huffington post territory.
Would have to pretty expensive to deport citizens.
No human can match machine learning. But - if you put garbage in you get garbage out.
The nation of World of Warcraft
The nation of Second-Life
The nation of Darkweb (just an FYI, this one has some CRAZY protective privacy laws)
Though to be fair... Many people all over the world have dual citizenships and reside their whole lives as expatriates. How is this concept any different. All member citizens are simply expatriates, but still carry voting rights for representation of their member virtual nation. This doesn't excuse them from their locally resided countries laws, but it does afford a unified voice to a largely geographically dispersed group of people that may carry similar ideals. Its membership could grow to the point that it does in fact have sway at the UN.
Will I have to give up my Sealand citizenship?
It's really arrogant of them to think this is some U.N. based state. It's a fantasy world. I personally will ignore it.
How will it accept their "citizenship" and passports if some REAL nation state blows it out of the sky?
I'm going to do something similar.
I'm going to throw a bottle into the ocean; publish an application for citizenship to the bottle. And once we have 100,000 we will inform the rest of the world that we are a sovergn country.
Government of any kind arises out of local need, for whatever size of 'local' we're talking about. The idea of defining a 'space nation' before there is any territory for it to represent is redolent of all that Silicon Valley posturing about sovereign floating islands on the high seas.
The UN Space Treaty has only two concerns: that earthly countries take responsibility for objects they launch, such as a failed American launch crashing in Brazil, and that terrestrial sovereignty not extend into space, such as the US claiming lunar territory because 'we got there first'. The Treaty allows local government to evolve naturally as needed, so long as it does not represent an extension of power by some part of Earth.
If the ISS eventually needs its own city council as private modules are added, one will evolve. Any Mars or asteroidal settlement can under the Treaty govern itself in the same way.
The opposition to the militarization of space becomes the proposition of the totalitarianism of space.
Matt damon!!!!
Reminds me of a football pool with no numbers in X or Y until all boxes were bought. Only difference is the suckers knew how much it cost to buy in.
What rhymes with Asgardia?
So nobody's going to live there and everyone stays a citizen of whatever country they're in now?
This sounds like Star Trek fans who claim to serve aboard this or that Federation ship. Or people who declare their house to be a sovereign nation. Petoria, I guess.
Where will the $50 trillion dollars necessary to build it come from?
See, there's actually a difference between saying you're going to do something and actually doing it.
This is nothing new. I've worked with a lot of PhDs.
And you don't read articles either.
Most, if not all, are completely bonkers socially and totally out of touch with reality. They spend so much time in the 'academia' fantasy land hyper-focused on their specialty, that even "stuper-doofus" names like dumb Ass-gardia sounds good to them. What a laugh riot.
Um, interesting. You don't read the article, and fixate on a jeramiad. I've worked mostly with Ph.D's (note spelling) my entire career, and you know what? The pretty much fit a cross section of all people, with the exception of there aren't many stupid ones, and they rend away from activities that stupid people engage in.
And there are a few doofuses, just like regular folk.
The real irony is they indulge in infantilization of those around them, or anyone who disagrees with them, so as not to have to actually deal with their loony tendencies. Assgardia is a (heavily smoked) pipe dream.
Yarbles! A large part of my work with these folk was analysis of their ideas. They were universally grateful when I pointed out fatal flaws.
The only caveat I'd note was that my work tended toward the scientific end of the spectrum, but still worked with a lot of disciiplines. Any assholes got dropped pretty quickly. And asshole distribution isn't any higher among Ph.D's than among the general public.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Well, that can't possi -
NO GODS OR KINGS, ONLY MAN ...bly end badly. Yeah.
Should be a cinch to nuke. The ICBM won't even have to re-enter the atmosphere to reach it.
So what exactly is the benefit to this? I still have to pay the taxes of the country that I physically live in, still have to obey the laws of the country that I physically live in. The only change that I see is that the government of the country that I physically live in can now claim that I have dual-citizenship, which seems more like a bad thing than good, though I will admit that my knowledge on the subject is rather non-existent.
No, here's another question.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Their prez leader shall be Odin. There VP will be called Thor, and their Trump, Loki.
Show some respect to this lonely warrior.
His hill is high, the air is thin, the stars are bright and do not waver, but burn steadily into his unblinking eyes as if they were hard, bright points of righteousness. He cannot sense Yggdrasil from there; yet he soldiers on.
When he shouts Ásgarðr, the surface dwellers... they hear nothing. Muspelheim awaits those who step away from the true path of pronunciation.
You have been warned. You insensitive clod.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
So this is how elysium got started.
Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
There is so much space to colonize and develop down here, on Earth. Think the Far North in the US, Canada, and Russia, the deserts, the bottom of the oceans. Such an endeavor would be far less expensive, faster, and less risky on Earth than in lower Earth orbit or on Mars, which is a cold, unbreathable, dead desert to our best knowledge.
That's not a drum. That's a garbage can lid.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Asgardia "will offer an independent platform free from the constraint of a land-based country's laws. It will become a place it in orbit which is truly 'no man's land.'"
This sounds like it's one male stand-in for Ayn Rand away from being Rapture in space. Alternatively, it's one SHODAN away from being System Shock 2.
IAU reasoning: The earth has its moon; ergo its neighborhood is not clear; ergo the earth is not a planet.
That whole "has cleared its neighborhood" is ridiculous on its face.
Also, you try sitting 100,000 km over the planet Pluto without a nice orbit helping you out and you'll find out just how good it is at clearing its neighborhood, all right.
The nice thing about the IAU is when they shit themselves and fall in it, we are free to ignore them.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Look at the site it has an eye of horus in the middle, this is to get sheep into thinking this is a new thing but hey guess what same people that are destroying the planet are behind this nation, cause god forbid any person be free from their claws.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Reminds me of the whole Sealand thing. Regardless of the novelty of space, the bottom line is unless other nations recognize you as a nation, you're not a nation. Heck there are plenty of contemporary examples of actual physical land areas for various political reasons call themselves independent or a nation, which arn't recognized by anyone. Then there are those that are by some nations but not by others, some for decades! So I don't hold out a lot of hope for the land of Thor...
'Asgardia'? No, they should name it 'Freeside', with the biggest investor taking up residence in a villa within the station called 'Straylight'.
How is this not a label on par with major political parties!? As a label, it's far more descriptive than words like "Democrat" or "Republican." If I say so-and-so is a Republican, or so-and-so is a Democrat, does that tell you anything distinctive about any of so-and-so's political positions?
At least with Libertarians, while there is some diversity within the label, it tells you a lot. If you tell me so-and-so is a Libertarian, I can accurately predict a fuckton of his answers to political questions. You can't do that with a Democrat or a Republican. Those people will surprise a lot, because their labels are so meaningless. (Especially Democrats; there isn't anyone who couldn't get away with saying "I'm a Democrat." Trump could run as a Democrat.)
Just wait until "Asguardian citizens" have to start paying "Asguardian taxes"
As supreme commander I call for the eradication of all mechanical spiders.
Sovereignty is not something you can just claim. You need to be able to defend it from those who would take it away. You also generally need it to enforce national laws, such as tax policies. Anything else is just a club.
...how do they plan on getting the 10,000 citizens to be recognized without actually getting 10,000 people on the station?
If just having 10,00 people sign up to say they want to be 'citizens' is all it takes, then pretty much any sizable company/forum/community/religion can become it's own nation.
Meh, I'll sign up just because it could be fun. I think I may even try my hand at designing a flag for it too.
I've worked mostly with Ph.D's (note spelling) my entire career
Your grammar is incorrect. By inserting an apostrophe you are denoting possession, not plurality.
I've worked mostly with Ph.D's (note spelling) my entire career
Your grammar is incorrect. By inserting an apostrophe you are denoting possession, not plurality.
They were MY Ph.D's
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
I've worked mostly with Ph.D's (note spelling) my entire career
Your grammar is incorrect. By inserting an apostrophe you are denoting possession, not plurality.
They were MY Ph.D's
Perhaps so, but the possessive makes no sense in that original context!
But will Asgardia have banks for corporations to shelter/launder money through?
On of the biggest challenges to public acceptance isn't having a large enough population of people who claim citizenship. Rather; it is the universal assumption that a nation must have a set physical location not already claimed by a bigger/more powerful pre-existing nation and have people already living on it who wish to be sovereign. I don't know of any cases where a ship or aircraft was declared to be sovereign, which would be the closest example. (There is the case of Princess Margriet of the Netherlands who was born in an Ottawa hospital, but in that case, it was Canada, an existing recognized sovereign nation, temporarily declaring a small portion of its territory to be extra-territorial. And was only done because she was a) effectively a temporary refugee of WWII and b) In the line of succession of another sovereign and allied state)
All in all, this seems similar to a RPG player who has found what he or she thinks is a loophole in a rarely referred to rulebook or rule supplement and thinks that this obscure reference should trump how the game is normally played or how the current quest is playing out. With a good GM, such rules-lawyers get hammered pretty quick. Hell, in a good group, quite often the other players will cooperate in squelching the rules-lawyer. In real world politics, I can't see gaming the system to be a viable strategy...
I need a wheelchair van for my son. Help me get the word out. https://www.gofundme.com/wheelchair-van-for-jj
these "scientists" have been watching too much "westworld"
Some countries, like the United States, will take away your current citizenship for voluntarily applying for foreign citizenship.
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal-considerations/us-citizenship-laws-policies/citizenship-and-dual-nationality/dual-nationality.html
I've worked mostly with Ph.D's (note spelling) my entire career
Your grammar is incorrect. By inserting an apostrophe you are denoting possession, not plurality.
They were MY Ph.D's
Which explains your projection and bullshit answer. Like how you never admit you are wrong. Thanks for a perfect example of what the op was writing about. LOL.
Nonetheless i did apply, my first impression was this is a scam for the next mmo where you can exchange qubitcoins for real dollars in space ...
but now im left with one question ? can i bring my cat or does he have to register separately ?
Free speech was meant to be free for all... how can anyone grow up in a nanny state ?
akshully and skjoozmee for doubleposting, wether they get it up or not .. it does sound like a real nice brainpicking gedanken sourcing concept to gather spacenuts around and steal ideas for free or at least write some seriously decent sci-fi
Free speech was meant to be free for all... how can anyone grow up in a nanny state ?
So you claim to have multiple PhD yet you cannot use possessive apostrophes correctly?
You are exactly what the OP was talking about.
I would be they would suck at the Olympics. On the plus side if they host then we'll get new records for shot-put!
Complete with it's own CANNIBAL CLUB.
Sounds like someone has actually observed evidence of libertarian scientists. I will wait for secondary confirmation before pondering the implications of this astounding discovery.
"Asgardia will demonstrate to scientists throughout the world that independent, private and unrestricted research is possible."
Anyone else concerned with the implications of this statement from the site? While "independent" and "private" research aren't particularly worrisome, I'd like to know what "unrestricted" research means, especially when just above that they state: "Economical and political considerations often take precedence over purely scientific ones and ethical boundaries are considered necessary to sustain safety."
Is part of this underlying ethos the idea that ethical boundaries, as well as economical and political considerations, get in the way of scientific ones? If that's the case, I want, *even more*, to know what "unrestricted" research means. Is this an attempt to circumvent well-establish ethical oversight common across scientific domains? The only reason you'd want to circumvent ethical oversight is if you're considering doing something unethical and, sadly, we've seen far too often what happens when ethical oversight of research is disregarded.
"A platform free of land-based law"?
"A true no-man's land"?
A flag and anthem?
Have I just seen the premise for Bioshock 4?
They were MY Ph.D's
That statement is also grammatically incorrect. Again you are denoting possession, but this time you left out the object instead of simply misplacing an apostrophe.
You really ought to have stayed in school.
They were MY Ph.D's
That statement is also grammatically incorrect. Again you are denoting possession, but this time you left out the object instead of simply misplacing an apostrophe.
You really ought to have stayed in school.
That denotes a joke. Lighten up, coward, and you'll see that much of life will serve to make you laugh, which is very good for the soul.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Literally everything you just said, is complete bullshit based on ignorance. Just so you know, nobody likes a person who is completely negative and rude. I'm talking about you dipshit!
Sounds more like a publicity stunt for Bioshock...
... from non-whites?
Even if we moved to another planet, they would demand to come with us, wouldn't they...
Projecting again Ol Olsoc? Or should I say Anonymous Coward. You made an ass out of yourself, proved the OPs assertion and have been flailing about with sad and futile responses (again proving the point) and just can't let it go, can you? Another typical flaw. Proving the point, once again. The true irony is your last response above is a complete projection of yourself, once again.
Keep digging, it's amusing for all to see.