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Study Finds Little Lies Lead To Bigger Ones (go.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from ABC News: Telling little fibs leads down a slippery slope to bigger lies -- and our brains adapt to escalating dishonesty, which makes deceit easier, a new study shows. Neuroscientists at the University College London's Affective Brain Lab put 80 people in scenarios where they could repeatedly lie and get paid more based on the magnitude of their lies. They said they were the first to demonstrate empirically that people's lies grow bolder the more they fib. The researchers then used brain scans to show that our mind's emotional hot spot -- the amygdala -- becomes desensitized or used to the growing dishonesty, according to a study published online Monday in the journal Nature Neuroscience. And during this lying, brain scans that show blood supply and activity at the amygdala decrease with increasing lies, said study co-author and lab director Tali Sharot. "The more we lie, the less likely we are to have an emotional response" -- say, shame or guilt -- "that accompanies it," Sharot said. Garrett said he suspects similar escalation factors happen in the "real world," which would include politics, infidelity and cheating, but he cautioned that this study was done in a controlled lab setting so more research would be needed to apply it to other situations. The study found that there is a segment of people who don't lie and don't escalate lies, but Sharot and Garrett weren't able to determine how rare those honest people are. It also found that people lie more when it benefits both them and someone else than when they just profit alone.
Study find millennial proverbs to be actually true...
Her 30 years of "public service" were at least useful to science.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
next new study 80% of congress lies!
Yes! We can go back to simple product feature marketing.
Researchers discover that people become better and more comfortable at activity with more practice.
Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
This just supports my theory: Trump has been lying so much for so long that he doesn't even know he's lying anymore.
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
This explains those foundations created for the public good but ending up serving the well-fare of a single family and increasing the balance of a Swiss bank account.
Big lies lead to politics!
I consider myself to be on the Autism Spectrum scale. When I tell stories I want to be detailed; but I have learned that people don't want the full story and prefer summaries. Summaries so short that I more or less have to reinvent the scenario in order to get my point or question out and paid attention to. Since it's not the complete truth; it's a lie. But I want to tell the complete truth but people don't want to hear all the details and angles. It's a profound discrepancy in human communication that I have adapted to; the lie that communicates the essential but not exact truth. Is it a lie when people want/expect you to actually do it?
Lying isn't black and white. You have to interpret how much and what information a person is looking for. You are then lying only when you know what information a person is looking for and if they would care about the inaccuracy of the statement.
rt
This might possibly make some sense of my general view that I have about lying, which is that it's not quite as simple as "honest people" and "dishonest people". I'm sure there are some people who are truly dishonest, in that they've thought very clearly about what the truth is and are being intentionally deceptive. However, I know a number of people where I'd be more inclined to say that they're just not really thinking about it.
That might sound weird or a little nonsensical, but what I mean is, there's a certain level of mental activity to "be honest". It's not just about the courage to voice your opinion, but also whether you go through a certain kind of thought process. To give a common example, if you ask your coworker, "How are you doing?" there's a decent chance that person will say, "Good" without even thinking about it. They might be miserable, but it's not necessarily an intentional deception. Maybe you're just being polite, or you don't want to share. Or maybe you're just responding because that's the proper conventional response to the question.
To give a slightly more complex example, if I ask what your favorite movie is, you might just say "Pulp Fiction" even though that's not your favorite movie. Maybe it's a movie that came to mind that you liked. Maybe it was a movie that your decided was your favorite movie well over a decade ago, and you've just used that as your answer when people ask, even though there are other movies you like better. Or maybe you said "Pulp Fiction" just because you thought it was a good answer that other people would agree with.
I used to think that it was as simple as "being honest" or "being dishonest", but I've realized over the years that a lot of times, we just end up giving whatever answer is quick and easy, or the safe answer that won't cause trouble. Some people do it more than others, and I've known a few people for whom communication isn't really about conveying information, but more about social maneuvering. And I don't even mean that it's malicious, since it may be as innocent as just saying whatever will get you to like them and make everyone get along. I think it's not even necessarily an intentional deception, but instead it's more like they're not even thinking about the truth content of their answer in the context of "true" or "false", but more like "achieves the desired effect" or "doesn't achieve the desired effect".
So I'm rambling a little, but I wonder if the amygdala has a role in the evaluation of truth content. If my general thought is correct, it'd be reasonable to think that there's some part of the brain with is being under-used in people who "end up giving whatever answer is quick and easy".
I'm pleased that Slashdot has posted this story because, I'm uh, I'm the author of this study! ... yeah, that's it ... and, and uh, I invented the machine that scanned the subjects' brains! ... and I invented a way to control their brains so that the study supported my hypothesis! ... yeah, that's the ticket ... and they paid me so they could lie even more!!! And then I sent them all to Slashdot to post comments on this thread! Yeah, that's it...
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
Not sure why the researchers behind this study think their findings are unique or somehow specific to lying. The brain is supremely adaptable to learned behavior, stimuli, even physical damage.
You know, where the character is actively rewarded for, and celebrates some 'negative' ethical attribute? Dungeon Keeper, God of War, most action video games, etc.
Well, if they're paying you money to lie, and more money to lie bigger, then seems to me that's the same dynamic. It's a reward loop, with a context. Doesn't seem to me that this would be any more likely to cause an increase in general preference for lying, than the millions who played Dungeon Keeper being more likely to turn to workplace abuse as a first resort.
That said, context adds a lot - the classic Stanford Prison experiment and similar studies showed how far context and roles can push people with very little prodding.
Seems to me, that more thought should be put into what roles we're building for folks, especially with things like the stock market, the legal system, and managerial roles. Unbounded reward loops have a way of being pushed until something really bad breaks, even with 'normal' people.
Ok. I lied. But just a little lie.
When first we practice to deceive.
Should have just asked them, obviously.
sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
It explains them perfectly to a T, especially with their responses to murder.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
I read the linked article, and have to say I disagree.
I pride myself in always reading all the Slashdot articles to form my own opinion. I've basically read them all.
As long as you believe that religious words have scientific meaning, you will be under their control and they will benefit from the power and loot that control brings them. Political correctness is a religion.
The chaanelH to sign
Rob Malda is a 26-year old white male with a stocky build and a beard. His head is shaved. He responded to my ad to be interviewed for this article wearing only leather pants, leather boots and a leather vest. I could see that both of his nipples were pierced with large-gauge silver rings. Questioner: I hope you won't be offended if I ask you to prove to me that you're a nullo. Just so that our readers will know that this isn't a fake. Rob: Sure, no problem. (stands and unbuckles pants and drops them to his ankles, revealing a smooth, shaven crotch with only a thin scar to show where his genitals once were). Q: Thank you. That's a remarkable sight. (laughs and pulls pants back up). Most people think so. Q: What made you decide to become a nullo? (pauses). Well, it really wasn't entirely my decision. Q: Excuse me? The idea wasn't mine. It was my lover's idea. Q: Please explain what you mean. Okay, it's a long story. You have to understand my relationship with Michael before you'll know what happened. Q: We have plenty of time. Please go on. Both of us were into the leather lifestyle when we met through a personal ad. Michael's ad was very specific: he was looking for someone to completely dominate and modify to his pleasure. In other word, a slave. The ad intrigued me. I had been in a number of B&D scenes and also some S&M, but I found them unsatisfying because they were all temporary. After the fun was over, everybody went on with life as usual. I was looking for a complete life change. I wanted to meet someone who would be part of my life forever. Someone who would control me and change me at his whim. Q: In other words, you're a true masochist. Oh yes, no doubt about that. I've always been totally passive in my sexual relationships. Anyway, we met and there was instant chemistry. Michael is a few years older than me and very good looking. Our personalities meshed totally. He's very dominant. I went back to his place after drinks and had the best sex of my life. That's when I knew I was going to be with Michael for a long, long time. Q: What sort of things did you two do? It was very heavy right away. He restrained me and whipped me for quite awhile. He put clamps on my nipples and a ball gag in my mouth. And he hung a ball bag on my sack with some very heavy weights. That bag really bounced around when Michael fucked me from behind. Q: Ouch. (laughs) Yeah, no kidding. At first I didn't think I could take the pain, but Michael worked me through it and after awhile I was flying. I was sorry when it was over. Michael enjoyed it as much as I did. Afterwards he talked about what kind of a commitment I'd have to make if I wanted to stay with him. Q: What did he say exactly? Well, besides agreeing to be his slave in every way, I'd have to be ready to be modified. To have my body modified. Q: Did he explain what he meant by that? Not specifically, but I got the general idea. I guessed that something like castration might be part of it. Q: How did that make you feel? (laughs) I think it would make any guy a little hesitant. Q: But it didn't stop you from agreeing to Michael's terms? No it didn't. I was totally hooked on this man. I knew that I was willing to pay any price to be with him. Anyway, a few days later I moved in with Michael. He gave me the rules right away: I'd have to be naked at all times while we were indoors, except for a leather dog collar that I could never take off. I had to keep my head shaved. And I had to wear a butt plug except when I needed to take a shit or when we were having sex. I had to sleep on the floor next to his bed. I ate all my food on the floor, too. The next day he took me to a piercing parlor where he had my nipples done, and a Prince Albert put into the head of my cock. Q: Heavy stuff. Yeah, and it got heavier. He used me as a toilet, pissing in my mouth. I had to lick his asshole clean after he took a shit, too. It was all part of a process to break down any sense of individuality I had. After awhile, I wouldn't hesitate to do anything he asked
This was an unethical study. After the brain changes the subjects could be left unfit for any job other than a politician.
So first off, the researchers discussed the idea of a study about lying.
Then they told their friends/partners about the cool study they were bound to get funding for.
After that, they let slip to some non-research staff that they were currently conducting a study about lying.
In the second-to-last step of the research process, they made up some numbers and sent them to a bunch of magazines, one of which published the story without checking the references
Finally, slashdot butchered the facts into a click-baiting headline. Process complete.
Where's the cake? She said there was cake on /. !
is an important social practice for pimps, porn stars, and middle-upper managers of large software (and other!) corporations. Why do you think Ballmer was always so agitated? :)
... that people who practice a thing and get rewarded for it get better at that thing and do it more often? How bizarre!
Don't just stand there, get that other dog!
also, it was A STUDY in a research hospital. here is the problem, lying in a study is NEVER going to be the same as lying in a organic situation where no one knows but you.
That is another thing I am tired of, studies in a research office where after you go through a sorting questionnaire someone with a clip board asks "I give you 100 dollars but that means he gets $20 less... etc etc but you have to go lie to him about it etc etc but I take away this $1 bag of tasty corn chips" ---reseacer: ""Ah see! this proves people will sell cornchips for $100 and lie about it!"". ', They think this some how reflects what someone would do in the real world.
protip: people don't act how they say they will, so ASKING them about something is worthless, and having them do it in a study group is only slightly less worthless.
And marijuana is a "gateway" drug.
The "I.T. Crowd" did this brilliantly - a lie to justify using the disabled toilet escalated hilariously.
No, this study finds that taking part in a study where you're paid to lie proves that humans will lie to get paid. Especially in front of a bunch of strangers, where the lies are likely trivial, and will have no bearing on their life once the guy in the white coat gives them their money and says goodbye.
How about a study where you're paid to tell the truth for money? Even truths that diminish you socially or would lead to embarassement? Would there be similar deactivation of the amygdala? Perhaps that's a sign of numbness or detachment rather that willingness to lie. Isn't that what the whole Scientology brainwashing 'auditing' thing is about?
Hook them up to a polygraph. Ask questions ranging from 'Do you regularly give money to charity?' to 'Have you had sexual thoughts about family members', the real gamut of seriousness and social consequences. Use the polygraph to give a reasonable degree of certainty whether they're answering truthfully or not. Tell them their answers (but not the polygraph results) will be publicised. See what happens to their brain -then-.
Tell me lies
Tell me sweet little lies
If the study had concluded that little lies don't lead to bigger lies then it'd be much harder to justify further research.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Obviously...look at politics as a prime example...
My current study shows breathing in and out changes oxygen level in the lungs. Revolutionary, no?
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
I hate to sound like a misanthrope but most humans don't aspire to be moral and ethical beings. Most people out of self interest will "test the waters". If they find they can do something for their own self gain that is of questionable morality and ethics without being detected, most are going to do it.
If you want to do a thought experiment and find out how true this is, imagine this scenario: You have found a super power that enables you to be completely invisible and undetectable. Be honest with yourself, what would you do with that power? Furthermore, what would you do if the economy went south in such a way that you couldn't feed yourself or your family. I rest my case. Consider this very apt movie quote:
The Joker: Don't talk like one of them. You're not! Even if you'd like to be. To them, you're just a freak, like me! They need you right now, but when they don't, they'll cast you out, like a leper! You see, their morals, their code, it's a bad joke. Dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these... these civilized people, they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve.
That's a good chunk of the human condition. Good luck solving that.
We'll make great pets
The following (translated) quotation describes this syndrome perfectly.
"The great masses of the people in the very bottom of their hearts tend to be corrupted rather than consciously and purposely evil ... therefore, in view of the primitive simplicity of their minds, they more easily fall a victim to a big lie than to a little one, since they themselves lie in little things, but would be ashamed of lies that were too big".
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf (Houghton Mifflin Co., Boston, 1971; original version 1925), Vol. 1, chapter 10, p.231
I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
n/t
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
Funny, I was going to say the same thing about Trump, but even moreso. Take a look at politifact. 80% of the what comes out of his mouth is a lie.
He doesn't even want to be president. His whole campaign is a lie. Innit obvious? Or are you one of his minions that are so blind you can't even see he's sabotaging himself?
God, I hope the real story comes out someday.
People don't want details, so i shorten the story, therefore it is a lie.
Holy shit, you are fucking autistic. Either that, or maybe you just need to learn to edit yourself better.
So all those unfunny 1960s US sitcoms were really demonstrating human behaviour. Really, this is old news: Who thinks dishonest politicians are fun?
I remember when the WMDs excuse wasn't gaining popularity, pro-Bush pundits changed to the 'regime change' excuse: Then talking heads came from the woodwork, waxing poetic on how the USA would be the salvation and the heroes for an oppressed nation: It was the invasion of Canada, Korea and Vietnam all-over again. I think a good psychopath can assign more nobility to a big lie than a small lie, so the only distinction, is the delay until the lie is exposed.
duh
A couple of years ago I was in a relationship with a lady who lied throughout our relationship. She told one fairly big lie in the beginning and got caught and I forgave her and gave her another chance. My reward for this was that she continued to lie to me about various things. It just took a lot longer to figure that out. In fact, I'd say that her default position on just about anything was to lie about it. She just had a lot of issues and I guess she was afraid that even the smallest issue would be a major problem for me, so she continued to lie. In the end I caught her in very big and longstanding lie that completely destroyed my ability to trust her ever again and also brought to light many other related lies that she had told to support the big lie, so our relationship ended. In the end I was left not really knowing what, if anything, she had ever told me was true. It really brought home to me the idea that trust is the foundation for a relationship and when there is no trust, there can't be a successful relationship.
Funny, I was going to say the same thing about Trump, but even moreso. Take a look at politifact. 80% of the what comes out of his mouth is a lie.
Exactly so he is clearly a very poor example because he did not start by telling little lies he started by telling huge whoppers and just never stopped.
I'm just really good at lying and probably not a sociopath... or am I a really good sociopath?
Maturity = respect + courage
People on the autism spectrum (including myself) are often called "immature". They have not learned (and perhaps cannot learn) how to communicate the truth (courage) while appreciating the other persons feelings, time, intelligence (respect). The key thing is that respect for the other is MORE important than telling the truth. This is not the same as lying to make the other person feel good, but it is more about drawing a line that you can only cross with truth when you have the other's implicit or explict permission to do so.
Nice post.
Further finding required to dig deeper.
Requiem for the American Dream
...Basil Fawlty could've told you that.
They have cornered the market on lying.
Not sure, but I sure see them being handed mod points with all the modbombing going around.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
The more people are able to get away with stuff, the more they do it. If you keep getting away with lying, cheating, and dishonest behavior, the more likely you are to test the limits. The more you are able to bull*shit other people, the bigger shovel you try to use. Eventually, this all catches up with you.
If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything.
Let's start with Benghazi - 4 dead. Libya in general: 114 civilians killed and 445 wounded during Odyssey Dawn.
Iraq War: (voted for, supported) 4,424 US dead, 30k+ US wounded. Hundreds of thousands of Iraqi and other casualties
Afghanistan War: (same, same) 2,386 US dead, 20k+ US wounded. Hundreds of thousands of Afghan and other casualties.
After that, we can talk about the dozens of US dead after involvement in her scandals. Vince Foster, et al.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
Lying is one of the hallmarks of a true sociopath.
https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
Mohammed: Did you see Mohammed at the meeting today?
Mohammed: No, but his brother Mohammed showed up.
Mohammed: What did Mohammed talk about?
Mohammed: Mohammed introduced us to Mohammed who is also a mason!
Mohammed: A mason? No shit? How long has he been one?
Mohammed: About five years. He was referred to the local lodge by Mohammed.
Mohammed: Ah, yes, Mohammed. He has a shit ton of connections around town!
Mohammed: Yes, and our brothers, police be upon them, Mohammed and Mohammed from Egypt came, too.
Mohammed: I've been thinking of becoming a clown.
Mohammed: A clown, Mohammed, why?
Mohammed: So I can film myself being gay.
Mohammed: Oh, you.
Mohammed: So anyway, is Mohammed, Mohammed, and Mohammed coming to the next party?
Mohammed: Indeed. Mohammed was so funny last time.
Mohammed: Well it wouldn't be a party without Mohammed.
Mohammed: Yes, my friend. POLICE BE UPON THEM!
Yes, but not inside
Yes, but only this block and not one block west where we are meeting
but does not necessarily negate, it can qualify to something more specific
...about Hillary Clinton, doesn't it? The more crap she got help covering up, the worse crap she committed that needed to be covered up.