Slashdot Mirror


Star Trek Discovery Gets Delayed After Losing Showrunner Bryan Fuller (variety.com)

It looks like we're going to have to wait even longer for CBS's upcoming Star Trek Discovery series, as the production's showrunner, Bryan Fuller, is stepping back. He will however still remain the show's executive producer. Variety reports: The decision was made late last week to hand the day-to-day showrunning reins to "Star Trek" exec producers Gretchen Berg and Aaron Harberts as "Discovery" gears up for the start of filming next month and a May 2017 premiere date. Fuller, who will remain an executive producer, will still be involved in breaking stories, and the show will continue to follow his vision for the universe that this latest "Trek" series will inhabit. Writer-director Akiva Goldsman is also expected to join "Discovery" in a top creative role. He's envisioned as serving as producing support for Berg and Harberts, Fuller and exec producer Alex Kurtzman as they juggle the demands of the series that CBS is counting on to be the marquee selling point for subscriptions to its CBS All Access SVOD service. Sources said there had been some strain between "Star Trek" producer CBS Television Studios and Fuller over the progress of production on the show, as Fuller is also juggling the final weeks of shooting and post-production duties on Starz's upcoming drama "American Gods" and prepping a reboot of "Amazing Stories" for NBC. Fuller has penned the first two scripts for "Discovery" and has hammered out the broader story arc and mythology for the new "Trek" realm. But it became clear that he couldn't devote the amount of time needed for "Discovery" to make its premiere date and with production scheduled to start in Toronto next month.

191 comments

  1. Easy win so load show up with friends by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In theory a show like this is an easy win for the network. It is then very very tempting for executives to mess with it for a wide variety of reasons. Put a GF in minor role. Get some writers who you need for another project a place to park themselves. A great place to dump losses from other shows. Basically all kinds of things that aren't good for the show.

    I suspect that the director wasn't playing ball with their 20th century ways and they replaced him with someone more "controllable" let's see how that works out.

    If we are lucky the show is run by people even better at avoiding such crap. If we aren't we will get a half crap show that is loaded up with acting has-beens from the last 20 years who were owed favours by various CBS executives, hack writers who weren't even good in their Full House days, and editorial urine tasting contests where executives say, "NO NO NO to much science. We need people talking about their emotions. Let's see if we can get Oprah to dress up like we got Woopie to do."

    Then the few union seniors who do make the show don't want to do star dreck (that is what they will call it) but they want to make some crap 80's drama like LA Law. So they will make LA Law in space. That was their first Union gig, and they haven't changed one bit since.

    1. Re:Easy win so load show up with friends by phizi0n · · Score: 4, Informative

      "CBS All Access" should tell you everything you need to know about this show. It's not network TV where everyone can watch it, it's not cable TV, it's not big budget premium channel TV, it's not big budget netflix/amazon streaming originals, it is a network TV channel's obscure streaming site that they are trying to lure nerds into paying for.

    2. Re:Easy win so load show up with friends by SirSlud · · Score: 2

      You could just find out what's happening on other websites that have better insight.

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    3. Re:Easy win so load show up with friends by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 2

      I just read the linked Wikipedia article. Apparently, they've already decided that the protagonist is a "female minority". So... that was one of the writer/producers' overriding concern about the new series, I guess? Making a social statement instead of just finding a great actor to carry the series? Well, Star Trek has always been an ensemble affair, and has been reasonably progressive in matters of casting without being too distracting about it (mostly), so hopefully it won't matter too much.

      I never really liked the decision split the Trek universes' timeline - which always seemed a bit ham-handed to me to begin with. But now, having made the decision, now they're just sticking to the old timeline? WTF? Guys, pick a timeline and go with it. I'm getting tired of "universe reboots".

      I'm trying to keep my expectations reasonable-to-low, but part of me can't help but look forward to a new Trek series anyhow.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    4. Re:Easy win so load show up with friends by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whoever thumbs this up is a masochist.

    5. Re:Easy win so load show up with friends by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the "theory" is already broken. it's why the showrunner chose different projects over this piece of shit.. and it doesn't really matter who's writing, directing, or producing.....

      this is going to be a subscription streaming series following a broadcast of the pilot on tv.

      streaming is way too fragmented, people won't subscribe en masse to cbs's bullshit streaming service just for star trek.

      it has FAIL written all over it. it won't last. as soon as cbs realizes this, production budget will be slashed.. and then the series will disappear. it won't even last the two dozen episodes a single normal broadcast television season is.

      if cbs actually had confidence in the series, IT WOULD BE ON TELEVISION, not the fucking internet only.

    6. Re:Easy win so load show up with friends by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jesus Christ, we had more than enough Tokenism Trek in the 90's. Voyager's grating determination to represent every single ethnicity on the planet all the way down to the North Korean Mennonite Black Panthers made every subsequent Star Trek character who wasn't a straight, white, tall, handsome, blue-eyed male feel like a sharpened screwdriver to the balls.

    7. Re:Easy win so load show up with friends by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Wikipedia appears to be trolling you. The original article that the paragraph is based on does not mention the character's minority status at all. Someone added that bit themselves, presumably to anger readers like your good self.

      What it does say is that they had Majel Barrett's character in the original series pilot in mind. It's a real shame they got rid of that character, she was actually one of the most compelling and interesting in that show. It seems like Riker took a lot of inspiration from her too.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    8. Re:Easy win so load show up with friends by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      TOS was Tokenism Trek. Get over it.

    9. Re:Easy win so load show up with friends by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      made every subsequent Star Trek character who wasn't a straight, white, tall, handsome, blue-eyed male feel like a sharpened screwdriver to the balls.

      If you react that badly to the appearance of anyone without white skin, I honestly hope someone does take a sharpened screwdriver to your balls because the planet can do without you procreating.

    10. Re: Easy win so load show up with friends by johnsmithperson123 · · Score: 2

      There's trying to represent everyone, and then there is tokenism. I get the feeling that Hollywood has moved far into the latter- I suspect LGBT people occur more often in Hollywood than the ~2% of the population that is such, for example.

    11. Re:Easy win so load show up with friends by GrumpySteen · · Score: 1

      CBS All Access" ... is a network TV channel's obscure streaming site

      It's not really obscure. They already have about a million subscribers and it may already profitable, though they don't seem to have released individual numbers for the HBO and CBS streaming services so it's impossible to tell. The new content will almost certainly help increase those numbers.

      For decades there have been people saying that wanted cable TV to let them buy individual channels instead of a bundle because the increased cost for the handful of channels they want would still be cheaper than the bundled price for 300 channels that they don't want. This gives them what they asked for and it turns out that about a million people weren't just talking out of their ass.

    12. Re:Easy win so load show up with friends by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      need to also have it on showtime.

    13. Re:Easy win so load show up with friends by Gojira+Shipi-Taro · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Horse shit. It costs about as much as Netflix and all it offers is the CBS library. I already own all the Star Trek that there is, and can watch it any time without streaming on their shit service. What else am I going to watch? Murder She Wrote?

      $7/month (or $10/month if I don't want to be forced to watch unskippable commercials) for one show, as opposed to all the content I can get on Netflix... fuck that.

      The commercials again... UNSKIPPABLE. This isn't what the consumer wanted, this is what the network executives wanted.

      --
      "Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked."; ~ Donald J. Trump
    14. Re:Easy win so load show up with friends by Hardhead_7 · · Score: 2

      So... that was one of the writer/producers' overriding concern about the new series, I guess? Making a social statement instead of just finding a great actor to carry the series?

      Right. Gene Roddenberry certainly never used the show for social statements.

    15. Re:Easy win so load show up with friends by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The price of the individual subscription services is still greater than the cost of high speed internet, so piracy is still the best option.

    16. Re:Easy win so load show up with friends by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 1

      I am willing to bet that the execs have spreadsheets showing that the series will be a huge hit and that pretty much anyone who ever watched Star Trek will subscribe to the service. Then by the time it blows up those same execs will have ridden the probability of their success on to other projects.

      Even worse, when it does blow up and their turd of a streaming service dies, they won't see it as their clinging to the old model, but as categorical proof that streaming is a bad idea and that Netflix's days are numbered.

      Idiots.

    17. Re:Easy win so load show up with friends by fche · · Score: 2

      The other original article in Entertainment Weekly blurts it out thusly: "the production has been searching for a diverse female lead for months". Because "diverse" means "non-white" apparently.

    18. Re: Easy win so load show up with friends by rcastles · · Score: 1

      What is a GF? Why did you write this long response, only to abbreviate a major word or phrase to potentially lose your reader?

    19. Re:Easy win so load show up with friends by secretsquirel · · Score: 2

      Which is of course why all the networks are ensuring more and more that you can't get all their content on Netflix anymore, and forcing Netflix to turn themselves into just another network.

    20. Re:Easy win so load show up with friends by meta-monkey · · Score: 4, Informative

      In the old Trek series the humans were colorblind, and gender issues were pretty much ignored. I liked that. It was a bright future where everyone moved past that shit. I will not be shocked though if in Discovery in every episode we have to hear the captain explain that she's a strong independent wymynz what don't need no man as she triumphs over institutionalized discrimination against strong independent wymynz what don't need no man.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    21. Re: Easy win so load show up with friends by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      What is a GF?

      Something you've never had, I'm guessing, so don't worry yourself about it.

    22. Re:Easy win so load show up with friends by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where the fuck are you getting high speed internet for $7/month? I want to live there!

      Oh, you mean the strawman argument that assumes that the only two choices are to subscribe to every possible service or pirate everything.

      Yes, subscribing to every possible service would be very expensive, but the reality is that you don't have to do that. The whole point is to pick the small number of choices you actually want and not pay for the rest. Your argument is just a very thin rationalization for why your cheap ass is unwilling to pay for the content you consume.

    23. Re:Easy win so load show up with friends by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 2

      For the first time in my life, I did not watch the most recent Trek movie. Enough is enough, and fans should grow balls and stop watching crap foisted on you.

      If you like it, bon apetit.

      I will watch this one's apparent premeire on TV, but will not watch it on CBS All Access (it won't come close to overlapping a Big Brother live feed, and in no way will I pay to watch commercials in any case.)

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    24. Re:Easy win so load show up with friends by GrumpySteen · · Score: 1

      The only horse shit here is your implication that I argued that people want commercials. I did nothing of the sort.

      People have said for years that they wanted to be able to buy cable channels a la carte rather than as a bundle and those channels have commercials. This is basically what those people asked for and about a million of those people have subscribed.

      You aren't one of those people because you hate commercials, but that doesn't change the facts that I presented. Believe it or not, you do not speak for everyone and you especially don't speak for the million or so people who are paying money for the service, commercials and all.

    25. Re:Easy win so load show up with friends by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > This gives them what they asked for
          No.

      Although it gives them the 'one channel they like' without the other junk channels added-on, we customers are still waiting for the networks to recognize that we PAY them for the channels so please don't also force ads on us. This is a rip-off and the networks get $$ both ways.

      One of the bennies of cable (in the old days) was you could get HBO for example and it was all movies, no commercials. Know why? Because customers paid for it.

    26. Re:Easy win so load show up with friends by Wulf2k · · Score: 1

      Now I'm wondering how a single person can be diverse.

    27. Re: Easy win so load show up with friends by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Didn't they already do that with "Angel One"?

    28. Re: Easy win so load show up with friends by meta-monkey · · Score: 1

      Which was a single episode, was an allegory for apartheid, and in the first season of TNG (the vast majority of which was crap) and no one liked it.

      Just saying, Janeway's defining character traits were her curiosity and her hard-assed rigid adherence to rules and standards. But the way character writing has gone today half the time a female character's defining character trait is "woman."

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    29. Re:Easy win so load show up with friends by phizi0n · · Score: 1

      CBS All Access" ... is a network TV channel's obscure streaming site

      It's not really obscure. They already have about a million subscribers and it may already profitable, though they don't seem to have released individual numbers for the HBO and CBS streaming services so it's impossible to tell. The new content will almost certainly help increase those numbers.

      For decades there have been people saying that wanted cable TV to let them buy individual channels instead of a bundle because the increased cost for the handful of channels they want would still be cheaper than the bundled price for 300 channels that they don't want. This gives them what they asked for and it turns out that about a million people weren't just talking out of their ass.

      It's pointless to talk about numbers we don't actually know so I'll just address the fact that CBS is not a cable channel, they are a national network of OTA TV stations that anyone in the US can already watch for free. You can even buy a cheap USB TV tuner and record it if you want to watch something later. The only way I'd ever consider paying for it is if I were living abroad but they say they restrict access to only the US and I don't know how much VPN wack-a-mole they do.

    30. Re:Easy win so load show up with friends by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

      TOS was Tokenism Trek. Get over it.

      Hey. If there's anything I've learned from South Park and Eric Cartman is that Token's Life Matters

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    31. Re:Easy win so load show up with friends by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 2

      I wasn't angry. I'd say I was just a bit disappointed.

      Star Trek was always attractive for me because of it's positive outlook on the potential future of humanity, where we manage to overcome many of our baser instincts and natural prejudices. I was hoping that Star Trek, of all series, had become post-gender and post-racial in at least its casting as well as in the fictional universe. It had been moving that way for several decades, it seemed to me, overcoming casting barriers with each new series. Well, maybe that was a bit naive of me.

      I did read about how it's based on Majel's "number one" character, which seems like a pretty interesting idea.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    32. Re:Easy win so load show up with friends by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      I just read the linked Wikipedia article. Apparently, they've already decided that the protagonist is a "female minority". So... that was one of the writer/producers' overriding concern about the new series, I guess? Making a social statement instead of just finding a great actor to carry the series? Well, Star Trek has always been an ensemble affair, and has been reasonably progressive in matters of casting without being too distracting about it (mostly), so hopefully it won't matter too much.

      Reminds me of the following quote:

      “So, why do you write these strong female characters?
      Because you’re still asking me that question."

      - Joss Whedon

    33. Re:Easy win so load show up with friends by myrdos2 · · Score: 2

      In the old Trek series the humans were colorblind

      I suspected as much - it explains the uniforms.

    34. Re:Easy win so load show up with friends by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "cable TV to let them buy individual channels"

      I think the key word here is "Channels", as in multiple channels not an individual service limited to a single network. Of course if you break out each channel into its own separate service its going to be obscenely expensive. Its a little like buying each individual component for a car personally, all of those separate sellers having to deal with individual purchasers for individual components is going to add a lot of overhead. On the other hand offering people a number of options (paint color, seat material, options, etc) is very reasonable and already done by many manufacturers with little added cost.

    35. Re:Easy win so load show up with friends by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      I like that idea too. The time period this one is set in is a little odd. In Enterprise there is general equality, but then by Kirk's time it's somehow slipped back again.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    36. Re:Easy win so load show up with friends by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Star Trek TOS came out when color TV was still very new, and a lot of people still had B&W TVs. There were 2 issues: 1) the color TVs didn't have the greatest color rendition or resolution or clarity, and 2) they wanted to "wow" viewers who did have color TVs. As a result, everything in the show had crazy, vivid colors.

    37. Re:Easy win so load show up with friends by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      Honestly, I sort of tend to view that as a limitation of the time in which the original show was created, rather than actual canon. In fact, one could justify this by the existence of Majel's character in the pilot, who was only removed due to executive meddling. I'm willing to concede Kirk's rough-and-tumble attitude, as that's a bit more charming than Starfleet's implied glass ceiling for women and minorities at the time.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    38. Re:Easy win so load show up with friends by Gojira+Shipi-Taro · · Score: 1

      I'm not one of those people because the CBS library is useless to me.

      A million subscribers isn't shit. Stop trying to bandwagon it.

      --
      "Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked."; ~ Donald J. Trump
    39. Re:Easy win so load show up with friends by Alsee · · Score: 1

      The reason they have been searching for months for a diverse female lead is that they are looking for some real diversity. Hollywood has tons of tons of actors of every ethic or ethnic-mix persuasion, hoards of actors of every sexual persuasion and gender-identity, abundant of actors of every of religion you can imagine. But they wanted to push the envelope and find some real diversity.

      They put out a lead casting call across all of Hollywood, seeking Actress who was Republican. Two weeks into the search they thought they finally had someone for the part, but it turned out to be Clint Eastwood in a dress.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    40. Re: Easy win so load show up with friends by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shhh, it's ok. We'll all pirate it, if we like it, we will keep pirating it and the show will succeed. If it is not pirated, show sucks, show will get cancelled.

    41. Re: Easy win so load show up with friends by Shirley+Marquez · · Score: 1

      Best current data has it somewhere in the 3-4% range, not 2%. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      But it's also true that the LGBTQ representation in creative professions is higher, in Hollywood and elsewhere. Disney was one of the leaders in offering LGBTQ-friendly benefits packages for that reason; they could have lost a lot of important people if they had not done so.

      Is the current push for more representation in films and television tokenism? Depends on how the characters are used. It's tokenism if they're just paraded on to show that the production is being inclusive. If they are being given substantial roles that are about more than just being queer, then it's proper inclusion.

    42. Re:Easy win so load show up with friends by Shirley+Marquez · · Score: 1

      They didn't do that with Captain Janeway in Voyager. She was a strong independent woman, as one would expect from somebody who becomes a starship captain. But she didn't spend her time making a social statement about being a strong independent woman.

    43. Re: Easy win so load show up with friends by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh no, that's back in the sixties.

      Check out TOS. Half the time it is some alien space babe of the week. Who makes goo-goo eyes and locks lips with Kirk, Bones, or Spock.

      Even the Romulans were used that way. I'm surprised that it didn't happen with Klingons.

      I suppose the Horta was something of an exception.

    44. Re:Easy win so load show up with friends by meta-monkey · · Score: 1

      Exactly. I recall maybe during the pilot episode Harry was unsure about whether to call Janeway "sir" or "ma'am" and she said "ma'am" and that was about it. Other than that no one noticed she was a woman. There were Maquis crew members who didn't want to follow a starfleet captain, but nobody ever had a problem with her because "her der girls can't starship!" Only the Kazon and they were basically space muslims. But the humans/federation were always post-racial, post-gender.

      And this is what pisses me off about the modern sci-fi fandom gender wars. They make a crappy movie like Ghostbusters 2016, and when it looks crappy fans say "oh this looks crappy" and then the marketing department starts screaming about how it's only evil basement dwelling nerds who can't handle girl ghostbusters! Um, we basement dwelling nerds have been cheering movies and TV shows with women and minority leads for 40 years or more. Alien(s), Voyager, DS9, etc etc. It ain't the nerds with the irrational hatred problem.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    45. Re:Easy win so load show up with friends by fche · · Score: 1

      "But they wanted to push the envelope and find some real diversity."

      In the mean time, and due to their politics, their opportunity will have mailed.

    46. Re:Easy win so load show up with friends by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 1

      I imagine you are taking heat from ST fans for not even watching. I have not liked any of the new ones. They are pretty much pointless and just milking the old work. My simple way of thinking about the new ones is: Would the new ones stand alone without the past TV series and movies to support it? Would Kirk, Spock, Scotty, etc have become cultural icons? Spock and Scotty inspired my love of science and engineering. The new crew would inspire me the same way the three stooges would inspire me to go through a small door at the same time as two other people and then hit them with my hat.

  2. They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So why worry

    Set 10 years before the events of the original Star Trek series,[2] the series follows the crew of the USS Discovery as they discover new worlds and civilizations, while exploring the franchise's signature contemporary themes.[3][4] The season-long storyline revolves around "an incident and an event in Star Trek history that's been talked about but never been explored".[2]

    Number One: A female minority character serving as a lieutenant commander aboard the Discovery. The decision to not make the character a starship captain, like previous Star Trek series' protagonists, was made "to see a character from a different perspective on the starship—one who has a different dynamic relationships with a captain, with subordinates, it gave us richer context".[2] The decision to call her 'Number One' was made in honor of the character of the same name portrayed by Majel Barrett in the original Star Trek pilot "The Cage". When the character was first pitched to CBS, she was to only be called Number One in the series, but her real name will ultimately be revealed before the end of the first season.[6]

    They made their priority pushing diversity as the theme and put the science fiction in the back. If you want a tv show about freakish aliens pushing diversity point your browser at a San Francisco Web Cam, no need to subscribe to CBS.

    1. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      Is having a female character really "pushing diversity"? Aside from anything else they have had a female captain (Janeway) and female fist officer (T'Pol) before anyway, so it's not even new.

      What could be interesting is to see if they mention the fact that apparently by Kirk's time there were no female captains and little opportunity to become one. In the episode Turnabout Intruder it's stated that women can't become captains for some unspecified reason. Star Trek Continues tackled the issue in its most recent episode, but it would be interesting to see if they mention it here.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    2. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, having a female captain (Janeway) isn't pushing diversity. Neither is having a black station commander (Sisko). UNLESS this is their main qualification and you get it paraded out every single episode how awesome it is that Janeway is a woman and that Sisko is a black guy. Because then it becomes a nuisance.

      What made Star Trek great was that these things were exactly treated as non-issues. Like, say, in the future, we consider it ridiculous that we even have to mention that women can command ships or that black people hold power on stations. Even TOS had an alien as the second in command (and admittedly, it was made a theme far more often than necessary).

      But what made the shows that had "minority bosses" great was that it was treated as normal, and, lo and behold, it was normal for the viewers. Remember anyone saying that a woman can't do that and that Janeway could command her ship was "unrealistic"? I don't. The only thing unrealistic about that women was her hair, what kind of futuristic concrete hairspray did she put onto that hairdo that it NEVER moved, no matter the damage to the ship?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why didn't they just build the ship out of *that*. I mean, it worked for black boxes and the Starbug right?

      Still, you've worded the response many of us feel rather well; the most important part about "minorities" in star trek was that it didn't matter.

    4. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by lucm · · Score: 2

      In the episode Turnabout Intruder it's stated that women can't become captains for some unspecified reason.

      Everyone knows the reason. It's because one of the duties of the captain is to handle parallel parking on crowded space docks.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    5. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      That's the pilot's job.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    6. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by 91degrees · · Score: 0

      I'd say Star Trek has pretty good credentials for gender equality (and racial equality). Roddenberry wanted a female first officer, but was overruled. DS9 had a female first officer and a female science officer, and Voyager had a female captain, not to mention countless female admirals and captains seen throughout all the TNG-era series. You might argue that the gender balance is a bit skewed, but that's a minor criticism.

      I think a bigger criticism of Trek's equality is they've always been shy about sexuality. I can name dozens of shows with openly gay characters, but Star Trek has only ever addressed this as the moral of the week. Plenty of other shows have had openly gay characters without making too big a deal of it. Paramount was too conservative here.

    7. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      I mostly agree, the Federation was post-racial and post-feminist for the most part.

      Trek has always pushed diversity though, e.g. the first on-screen interracial kiss. Sisko occasionally mentioned race as an issue, e.g. when they had that 1950s hollodeck program because of course in the real 1950s America black people were second class citizens. In the future though, race was never an issue.

      Having a woman in charge was just completely natural though, I don't recall it ever being an issue.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    8. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by gl4ss · · Score: 3, Interesting

      ..look, if you write it into synopsis and PLAN for the whole series that it is a female minority then yeah it kind of is pushing diversity.

      notice that they didn't specify something like "a female of asian descent" or "a funny fat black woman" - they had no idea what the plot is going to be besides facing odds and prejudice and prevailing against misogynist racist system by pure talent of the person. sounds nice yeah? sounds like star trek? of course not.

      they had not decided on anything else than it is a woman and minority. never mind it has not been addressed that much which race is in minority in star trek except that nobody is really and they are all equal.

      "so who is in this show? janet jackson? selma hayek?" "uh I don't know. it's just some female minority person, we can sort it out later" "so do I write the backstory as someone from .. where exactly? lost the family at a young age or what?" "hmm that doesnt matter, just make it very female struggle and put some racism in the backstory too so it's very good".

      who the fuck designs a tv show like that - that's what I want to know. how many female captains there are in USA navy at the moment anyways? if you want to know why captains in star trek og series were all male. I doubt they thought up any backstory to that.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    9. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Gender equality is non-sense. Gender are not equal, they are different. Same goes for race.

      The best peoples should the position, regardless of gender or race.

      Only a racist would take race into consideration, only a feminist would take gender into consideration.

    10. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by Gavagai80 · · Score: 1

      Having watched the original series, I thought it was because the main duty of a starship captain is to woo heterosexual female aliens.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank
    11. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Frankly, the show needed the diversity. After Original Series and TNG, there weren't much tolerance left for yet another male uber-captain and his next in chiefs. There's a certain tolerance how much you can rehash and reiterate, even direct repeats, of previous plots and characters. While different, I learned in time to enjoy Voyager, Enterprise and even Deep Space Nine. It took some adjustments, overlooking of bad acting (which is plaguing every single ST series) and some episode repeats, but after a few seasons each serie was able to stand on their own and I even regretted Deep Space Nine never got finished.

      Having watched all the series, I welcome any reboot that can bring a bit more sane and realistic acting, as I think the autism-part has been thoroughly overdone and is due for a renewal.

    12. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      The Wikipedia article is wrong. If you read the source that sentence is based on, it doesn't mention "minority" at all. It just says female. Some Wikipedia editor is trolling.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    13. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Remember that Star Trek original episode in which the crew encounters two survivors of a race which had one half of their body pitch black, the other half pure white. They stated to have killed each other in a "race war". And so they get asked why, since they were the same people. And to you, the viewer, they did look alike. The revelation: one of them was black on the left and white on the right; the other the other way around.

      The beauty of that: you, the viewer, in all likelihood did not even notice that their colours were reversed until you got told so. Very poignant, and you shared the utter astonishment of the Enterprise crew that this was an issue at all.

      Now, THAT is how you make a point about racism instead of these muh diversity officer appointments.

    14. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by Drethon · · Score: 1

      No, having a female captain (Janeway) isn't pushing diversity. Neither is having a black station commander (Sisko). UNLESS this is their main qualification and you get it paraded out every single episode how awesome it is that Janeway is a woman and that Sisko is a black guy. Because then it becomes a nuisance.

      What made Star Trek great was that these things were exactly treated as non-issues. Like, say, in the future, we consider it ridiculous that we even have to mention that women can command ships or that black people hold power on stations. Even TOS had an alien as the second in command (and admittedly, it was made a theme far more often than necessary).

      But what made the shows that had "minority bosses" great was that it was treated as normal, and, lo and behold, it was normal for the viewers. Remember anyone saying that a woman can't do that and that Janeway could command her ship was "unrealistic"? I don't. The only thing unrealistic about that women was her hair, what kind of futuristic concrete hairspray did she put onto that hairdo that it NEVER moved, no matter the damage to the ship?

      DS9 had some great episodes that focused on issues of race and gender but I'll agree that what made their typical approach to diversity great was making it seem normal.

    15. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by rocket+rancher · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What made Star Trek great was that these things were exactly treated as non-issues. Like, say, in the future, we consider it ridiculous that we even have to mention that women can command ships or that black people hold power on stations. Even TOS had an alien as the second in command (and admittedly, it was made a theme far more often than necessary).

      Well said. Roddenberry's optimistic view of the future is the reason most often cited when people talk about the appeal of ST:TOS.

      Trek, in its original run, was adept at tipping the sacred cows of gender, ethnic, and political identity (Uhura, Sulu/Uhura, and Chekov, respectively).

      But I think you missed one sacred cow by dismissing the role Spock played in Roddenberry's attack on societal mores. Roddenberry wanted to skewer religious sensibilities as well cultural ones, so he gave one character green skin and pointed ears to make him look like a demon, and would have given him wings and a tail if it had been in the costume budget. Having a demon as a sympathetic character striving to be more human (a trope, btw, that has firmly embedded itself in the Trek franchise a la Data, Odo, and B'Ellana) Roddenberry was taking aim at the religiosity that was (and still is) a core American demographic.

      The racism and religiosity that Roddenberry baited in TOS fifty years ago is still a legitimate target in the US, so it will be interesting to see which sacred cows Discovery is going to try to tip, if it remains true to its roots.

    16. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some Wikipedia editor is trolling.

      That sounds like some MRA argument. Just because they are trying to raise awareness of sexism and racism and you don't like that doesn't make them trolls or "SJWs".

      Social justice is about not just being a mindless drone who just follow orders of wiki/your workplace/society. Social justice calls for people to dare to speak up and raise awareness!

      This is no different than the anti-GG gaming sites run stories attacking "gamers" and not being apologetic about it. Or the donglegate lady who happened to overheard a dongle joke and decided to raise awareness on twitter. Or employees at Mozilla speaking up about Eich.

      You know, people who you would defend in a heartbeat against those vile anti-feminists and MRAs getting all triggered over it. Why the 180 now AmiMojo?

    17. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      No one is saying that men and women are the same. When we talk about equality we're talking about neither being superior to the other.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    18. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by known_coward_69 · · Score: 1

      this is like TOS

      first inter-racial kiss

      one of the first shows on TV with minorities and white people working together in top jobs and not just as janitors

      a lot of the episodes were based on themes of diversity and how it's stupid to not like people because of skin color

    19. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by Salgak1 · · Score: 1

      And yet in "Prelude to Axanar" and "Axanar", the much-fought-over Star Trek fan-film "Captain Sonya Alexander" commanded a Starfleet vessel (USS Ajax) a generation before Kirk et al. . .

    20. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by WallyL · · Score: 1

      In Star Trek: Voyager, the character striving for humanity was the Doctor. Also Seven of Nine, but the Doctor was definitely the outsider. By the time the show Voyager came around, half-Klingon wasn't really news and simply made portraying the internal struggles of the character B'elanna easier (since everybody has internal struggles) when it came up. It wasn't a huge deal that she was half-anything. The Doctor's programming to resemble a human and act similar to a human, as well as Seven of Nine's Borgness led to each character's struggle to be more human.

    21. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by Salgak1 · · Score: 1

      No one is saying that men and women are the same. When we talk about equality we're talking about neither being superior to the other.

      Not to quibble, but one IS superior to the other, depending on the function required. In general, male humans evolved for a higher peak load, whereas females evolved for a lower peak load, but better endurance, all other things being equal.

      Now if you're talking equality before the law, you are correct. However, on both a biological and purely physical level, you're incorrect. . .

    22. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why cant the captain of a federation ship be like a captain from Firefly series, Serenity's captain Malcolm Reynolds? Too life-like for star trek?

    23. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by Gojira+Shipi-Taro · · Score: 1

      Axanar was never produced, and never will be. Alec Peters never intended to do anything but fleece the maximum number of dollars he could out of doe-eyed fans.

      Axanar doesn't count.

      --
      "Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked."; ~ Donald J. Trump
    24. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh please. Spare us your faux evolutionary expertise.
      Furthermore whatever may be true in trends is not true in the specifics.
      So even if your pop pseudo-theories about evolution were true, it wouldn't make a bit of difference when talking about individuals - we all know men who can't do a single pull-up.

    25. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by mlw4428 · · Score: 1

      In the Star Trek universe, those things weren't ever factors. The best person was chosen for the job...but very, very jobs had to be physically demanding. Most of it was intellectual. But even deeper than that, there was no gender inequality, no race wars. Those things simply didn't matter. Mankind (in that universe) had progressed far beyond such trivial things. The very idea of race or gender superiority on a situation basis wouldn't be something that would come to mind. If there was a heavy rock to move there'd be thoughts of "well a man should do this" and every thought of "should I use my phaser or the transporter"?

      Roddenberry understood this and tried to incorporate that theme into his shows.

    26. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by nine-times · · Score: 2

      They made their priority pushing diversity as the theme and put the science fiction in the back.

      Hold on a second. Let's read back part of the section you quoted:

      The decision to call her 'Number One' was made in honor of the character of the same name portrayed by Majel Barrett in the original Star Trek pilot "The Cage".

      So you're claiming this is is "pushing diversity" and implying that this is somehow in violation of the legacy of Star Trek, when the character was inspired by a female officer from the original Star Trek pilot episode. And let's not forget that this is a show that included a black woman as an officer during the civil rights era, as well as a Russian officer during the cold war.

    27. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      Oh please. Spare us your faux evolutionary expertise.
      Furthermore whatever may be true in trends is not true in the specifics.
      So even if your pop pseudo-theories about evolution were true, it wouldn't make a bit of difference when talking about individuals - we all know men who can't do a single pull-up.

      You look at the population as a whole, not a single outlier. Men are taller than women despite Danny DeVito being short. That's why you try to look at large population sizes.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    28. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      Except the "diversity" in TOS represented bad 60s racial and ethnic sterotypes and largely one dimensional characters. This is one of the things that's blatantly obvious when comparing TOS to the reboot. You get crude stuff that doesn't age well when all you're really about is ticking off checkboxes.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    29. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by hey! · · Score: 2

      Are all men equal by that definition of "equal"? Or all women exactly like all other women?

      "Men" aren't stamped out of some kind of archetypal "man" mold, nor are all women exactly whatever you think a "woman" is or should be. Both men and women are going to be distributed along a normal curve (or maybe log-normal) when it comes to their fitness for some particular job.

      So this raises the question: how much overlap do those populations have? The traditionalist view is that there are manly jobs for which no woman is suitable; the radically opposite viewpoint is that there are no differences at all between the populations for any job. But leaving aside jobs like NFL offensive lineman or surrogate mother, I'd say that unless you take one or the other of these extreme positions it's not necessary to have an opinion on precisely how much overlap there is. The only thing that really matters is the individual you are evaluating for the job. If a woman is the best candidate for an engineering position or CEO or whatever, it literally doesn't matter whether or not men are usually better at that sort of thing.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    30. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      Roddenberry wanted to skewer religious sensibilities as well cultural ones, so he gave one character green skin and pointed ears to make him look like a demon, and would have given him wings and a tail if it had been in the costume budget.

      Not to mention, he was supposed to be red instead of green. It was nixed because it didn't work in black-and-white (it would have looked like he was wearing blackface or something).

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    31. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because the captains of the Federation are chosen from a large pool of potential candidates precisely based on their skills, ability to keep cool, and other areas of competence. They are not random free-enterprises like Mal.

    32. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Set 10 years before the events of the original Star Trek series

      God Damn It. Star Trek was about the future. I want a series set after DS9/Voyager. Stop @#(* with the timeline and do the formula that has worked in the past.

      Star Trek movies were after TOS. TNG was after TOS movies. DS9/Voyager were after TNG. Enterprise went back in time and it all went to shit.

      What happens after the Dominion War? Is there anything else in the other quadrants? Maybe make up some new techno bable and explore the 26th century. Make some new pretty ships.

      I was a die hard Trekkie. I had the LCARS Star Trek encyclopedia. Knew all the specs of their ships and they managed to lose me with this constant mucking in the Trek 'past'. Now we have a movie franchise that just blew away all of the original timeline I grew up with.

    33. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by meta-monkey · · Score: 1

      Perfectly said.

      Just to add, it's interesting that Star Trek was both post-racial and extremely racist at the same time. Yes, the humans didn't even notice they were different colors or genders. But every Klingon's a warrior, every Vulcan's a scientist or diplomat, ever Ferengi is a greedy weasel, etc. And sometimes the plot would center around the struggles of a character who didn't fit their racial stereotype.

      It would be nice if they would make a new Star Trek series about exploration, discovery, science fiction, etc. By all means give us a post-racialism, post-feminist crew of diverse characters who don't even notice they're diverse. My fear is it's going to be Star Trek: Diversity Wars and the science fiction will be glossed over and every episode will be about how the strong independent wymynz what don't need no man character struggles against the institutionalized discrimination against strong independent wymynz what don't need no man etc etc.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    34. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      And to you, the viewer, they did look alike. The revelation: one of them was black on the left and white on the right; the other the other way around.

      The beauty of that: you, the viewer, in all likelihood did not even notice that their colours were reversed until you got told so. Very poignant, and you shared the utter astonishment of the Enterprise crew that this was an issue at all.

      I saw that episode for the first time when I was about 6 years old--about a year after I learned what the WHITE ONLY/COLORED ONLY signs were all about.

      It still comes back to me whenever I encounter racism.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    35. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Exactly, and that it never was an issue actually was the strongest statement they could make: It's so normal, we needn't point it out.

      That's one hell of a powerful statement.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    36. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by kimvette · · Score: 1

      Star Trek has ALWAYS promoted diversity and equality. Have you not ever seen TOS?

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    37. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      The cynic in me would say that TNG tried to be PC, but failed miserably at it by using stereotypes to be PC. The women got the "empathy" positions (medicine and counselor), the blacks the dangerous and menial ones (engineering and security) and the android was the science guy.

      Plus Wesley Crusher, the Jar-Jar of the Star Trek universe.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    38. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      That was indeed one of the best (if not the best) TOS episode. Very powerful, very well written, and I also remember how I saw it the first time, I did actually notice the difference in their faces but couldn't imagine that this was the reason for their mutual hunt, it was so silly, pointless and insane.

      Still is.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    39. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      My guess is that her hair didn't grow fast enough and they couldn't replicate it. Else that stuff would've been what any space ship should be built of.

      But seriously, she should've gotten some ad contracts from hairspray makers.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    40. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but what it isn't is dramatic, the usual failure of Roddenberry-era Trek. Trek didn't become "popular" in the "we can sell this to advertisers" sense, until Roddenberry was shown the door. Then the scripts had tension.... at the expense of the future we want to boldly go into.

    41. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by WallyL · · Score: 1

      A woman was the security officer until the actress wanted off the show for unrelated reasons (didn't want to be type-cast, iirc). RIP, Lt. Yar!

    42. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by Woldscum · · Score: 1

      Even with all of that the bottom lines is that Avery Brooks (Sisko) in not a good actor. Or in the very least was totally wrong for the Sisko role. Kate Mulgrew (Janeway) was better in her role. But not much. Just cast the BEST actor for the role. NOT the correct LOOKING actor.

    43. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by T.E.D. · · Score: 1

      Remember anyone saying that a woman can't do that and that Janeway could command her ship was "unrealistic"? I don't.

      The Pilot episode for Trek TOS had a female XO (second in command) performing typical XO duties, and one of the changes the network insisted on was her removal, for pretty much exactly that reason.

      There was also tons of guff around Mulgrew's Janeway. I watched the show myself, and frankly she was a far more believable captain than Picard was. The woman just exuded that authority "don't F with me" attitude. But still there was tons of guff at the time about her not being a "believable" captain.

      Hopefully third time they try it will be the charm.

    44. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I once heard that on some of your planets, people believe they are descended from apes."
      -- masterfully delivered by Frank Gorshin

    45. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      Remember anyone saying that a woman can't do that and that Janeway could command her ship was "unrealistic"? I don't.

      I don't either, but I do remember the endless series of jokes about how Star Trek finally had a woman captain and the first thing she does is get the ship lost on the other side of the galaxy.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    46. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by cbhacking · · Score: 1

      They made a pretty big deal out of Tasha's gender, both with a few anvilicious episodes where a female chief of security was explicitly made to be a big deal and slightly more subtly in a few scenes where she was treated a little differently than the other officers or even just stood out as a woman among a group of mostly men (especially in Security). Still, you have a valid point: before big, strong, dark-skinned, male Worf, there was Tasha Yar as Chief of Security.

      --
      There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
    47. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by CommanderRyalis · · Score: 1

      Is having a female character really "pushing diversity"? Aside from anything else they have had a female captain (Janeway) and female fist officer (T'Pol) before anyway, so it's not even new.

      What could be interesting is to see if they mention the fact that apparently by Kirk's time there were no female captains and little opportunity to become one. In the episode Turnabout Intruder it's stated that women can't become captains for some unspecified reason. Star Trek Continues tackled the issue in its most recent episode, but it would be interesting to see if they mention it here.

      *pushes up nerd glasses* Actually Deep-Space 9 had a female officer first: Kira Nerys, Also the 3rd officer was also female: Jadzia Dax (although technically it was the symbiont Dax, not it's host but I digress.)

    48. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Well, TOS may be excused that a female XO was maybe a step too far. You still had a lot of female key personnel and a female communications officer, I'd guess that's about as much as you can ask for in the 1960s.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    49. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by DarthVain · · Score: 1

      The trouble with Janeway which has been pointed out by more than a few, and likely because they wanted her to project the strong woman character, was that they made her the expert of everything.

      In all other male captains, they were leaders first, and delegated most of not all the other stuff to other more qualified people. Why? Because that is reality really. With Janeway they made her an expert everything, half the time she would devise the answer to the problem herself, then do it personally, without as you say displacing a hair on her head. Ok we get it, she is very competent already...

      Personally I hope they have a Captain who is intrinsically flawed. Someone who depends on others. Heck I want one that has the crew rolling their eyes at what they are being ordered to do. Just give me an engineer that will say "sure I can do it that way Captain, wtf do I know, I'm just a stupid engineer..." Then do it his way anyway, then congratulate the Captain on the success afterwards for their "quick thinking"....

    50. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by rocket+rancher · · Score: 1

      In Star Trek: Voyager, the character striving for humanity was the Doctor. Also Seven of Nine, but the Doctor was definitely the outsider. By the time the show Voyager came around, half-Klingon wasn't really news and simply made portraying the internal struggles of the character B'elanna easier (since everybody has internal struggles) when it came up. It wasn't a huge deal that she was half-anything. The Doctor's programming to resemble a human and act similar to a human, as well as Seven of Nine's Borgness led to each character's struggle to be more human.

      When looking for a Spock analog in ST:V, I struggled a bit between B'Ellana, Seven-of-Nine, and the EMH, but settled on B'Ellana. Yes, the EMH was trying to understand human behavior, but Data already covered that; Pinocchio is still Pinocchio even if you are just a hologram, so I felt that the EMH would have been a bit redundant for the purposes of my argument. I needed somebody different. The issue with Seven-of-Nine was a bit more subtle. She didn't have to struggle to become human, because she was born human. Her conflict was not about becoming human, but more about recovering what she lost to the Borg. Admittedly, B'Ellana's conflict was often given in terms of losing that Klingon temper of hers, and little more, but her internal conflict was much more like Spock's struggle with his Vulcan-suppressed human half than Seven-of-Nine's allegorical rejection of her Borg implants.

    51. Re:They tell you upfront it isn't going to be good by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't Number One from TOS count as the first female first officer?

      Unfortunately, I don't wear glasses, so I have no nerd glasses to push around.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  3. Not delayed further *at all*, RTFM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Sources emphasized that CBS execs have been happy with the material that Fuller has developed to date but became increasingly concerned that he had too much on his plate and there was no willingness to delay the premiere date once more."

    Read that. "there was no willingness to delay the premiere date once more". Now fix the posting.

    1. Re:Not delayed further *at all*, RTFM by backslashdot · · Score: 1

      Ok that's corporate double speak. They don't want to be sued for insulting Fuller. They still need him, it's a matter of being cordial. It's how corporations fire people.

      "We appreciate all your prior service. We don't require your services anymore. mmK? Thanx bye."

  4. Like Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Dead.

    Was so good and fun. Maybe not in that order. Even without him it still was but without him it never have been. Like me.

  5. Bryan Fuller track record by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I love Dead Like Me and Pushing Daisies. But Voyager was a mess. He has enormous creativity and great visual style, but Fuller's work never gave me the sense that continuity was his strong suit.

  6. Showrunner? by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I wonder what a showrunner is. Since I'm not involved in the production of TVs or Movies in any way, I don't have the first clue. Maybe TFS would explain this term before using it?

    I'll keep in mind, in my future job at Slashdot, to remember to use obscure terms of art from my own field of chip design and cryptography. People will appreciate it I'm sure.

    --
    I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    1. Re:Showrunner? by phizi0n · · Score: 1

      It's a self-explanatory term. The person who runs the show and has the highest control over it.

    2. Re:Showrunner? by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      I have a BA in Media Studies and *I* don't know what a showrunner is.

      But I don't know what a lot of things are.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    3. Re:Showrunner? by Wescotte · · Score: 1

      They are responsible for the overall direction of the show. Often they are hands on in the creative process while other times they are more concerned with keeping everything running smoothly. Basically the CEO of the project.

      Brian Fuller would probably be in the former I suspect as has a history of writing.

    4. Re:Showrunner? by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      I was envisaging a person who runs between shows.

      Boss, CEO, manager, PHB, head honcho, etc. Those are the kind of terms I would expect for the person who is in charge.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    5. Re:Showrunner? by Black+Parrot · · Score: 1

      Wikipedia says it's executive producer + writer.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    6. Re:Showrunner? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      It's always fun to look at movie credits and see how many jobs are listed for which you have no idea what they actually do. Sure, you can spoil it by going to Wikipedia or using Google... but that's cheating.

      Key Grip?
      Best Boy?
      Show Runner?

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    7. Re:Showrunner? by fnj · · Score: 1

      No, it's not self-explanatory. It's some kind of hipster language. Movies and TV shows have always had producers and directors, and that pretty well covers "running" the show. The fact is that a "show runner" is actually an executive producer who is also a writer. So just CALL him that.

    8. Re:Showrunner? by SvnLyrBrto · · Score: 1

      The title should be fairly self-explanatory. But it is a fairly new thing. In traditional parlance, it's about halfway between executive producer (secures and handles the money but doesn't take creative role) and line producer (tends to the tedious day-to-day details but doesn't have the bandwidth to look at the big picture.).

      --
      Imagine all the people...
    9. Re:Showrunner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      > Brian Fuller would probably be in the former I suspect as has a history of writing.

      Not just writing. His previous shows have had very distinctive visuals too: Pushing Daisies, Dead Like Me, Wonderfalls, and Hannibal - every frame on Hannibal was meticulously designed to evoke dread, it might be the most cinematic looking show ever. He did a pilot for a dark Munsters reboot that was beyond gorgeous. He's kind of like Tim Burton but with more range.

      His leaving the star trek series means its going to be a lot less fun to look at.

    10. Re:Showrunner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Think of it as lead writer, director and executive producer rolled into one. There are other writers, other directors and other producers on the show, but the showrunner sets the agenda for all of them. Like LMS on Babylon 5.

    11. Re:Showrunner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lol @ hipster language. Its an industry term. Its been in common usage for at least 15 years and it covers more than just "executive producer and writer." But go ahead random geek without any industry experience, you decide what jargon is appropriate and what is just for posers.

    12. Re:Showrunner? by Wescotte · · Score: 1

      Fuller, who will remain an executive producer, will still be involved in breaking stories, and the show will continue to follow his vision for the universe that this latest “Trek” series will inhabit.

      Doesn't sound so bad...

    13. Re:Showrunner? by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      It's a self-explanatory term.

      Hardly.

      The person who runs the show and has the highest control over it.

      So, the showrunner is the director. Or maybe the producer. The head of the studio? President Obama?

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    14. Re:Showrunner? by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      I've looked up "Key grip" and "best boy" before. I know they are specific jobs, but can't remember what.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    15. Re:Showrunner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      He was a writer on Star Trek Voyager. Bad stuff.
      Putting him together with Star Trek is like giving an alcoholic a drink. Much better off when kept apart.

    16. Re:Showrunner? by swb · · Score: 1

      When you read descriptions of it, I can't help but think its a synonym for prima donna -- someone who wants influence over writing, production and direction but doesn't want to be burdened with the details of those jobs unless it fits into whatever creative impulse they're having that moment.

    17. Re:Showrunner? by phizi0n · · Score: 1

      They have multiple roles that can be summed up as THE BOSS of the show. Shows have several writers, directors (often changing every episode), and producers but the showrunner usually does all of those things and makes sure everything else is running smoothly. It really is simply that they run the show.

    18. Re:Showrunner? by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      It's a self-explanatory term. The person who runs the show and has the highest control over it.

      I don't think I ever heard the term until about 2 years ago at most. It's certainly not self-explanatory, because I've been meaning to look it up for a week now.

    19. Re:Showrunner? by squiggleslash · · Score: 2

      The term has existed for decades. Producers and directors frequently change from show to show - writers too. Directors have a little creative input but work from a script he or she has little say in. The Producer's job is to make sure the Director can do his or her job. And an "Executive producer" is the person who fronts the cash, they rarely have any creative involvement at all.

      None of those describe the person who owns the show creatively, who approves the scripts, determines the core storylines, manages the show's bible, etc. That person is the showrunner.

      The only confusion here from what I can see is that for some reason it's rarely a job title shown in the credits. Usually - though not always - the showrunner is also the show's creator, so they just gets listed under that title. Vince Gilligan, Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul's showrunner, is listed as "Creator", for example.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    20. Re:Showrunner? by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      "Show runner" is rarely listed in the credits. Usually some other role that applies to the person who is the show runner is listed, such as Creator.

      I like the fact they can be really misleading. Producer sounds like it's the "boss", but actually it's often an underling who has to get the stars coffee and make sure they're in good hotel rooms. Remember Jeremy Clarkson beating up his producer? He wasn't beating up his boss, he was beating up someone who worked for him. Executive Producer? Probably - though not always - some guy at the studio who approved funding the show.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    21. Re:Showrunner? by c10 · · Score: 1

      It seems like it's a recently made-up job title, maybe "producer" or "executive producer" was too hard to spell, or someone wanted to point out how special they are.

    22. Re:Showrunner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's just hollywood speak for he's not in control anymore. The showrunner is the person who really determines all that stuff, he can't both be removed from the job responsible for all that stuff and simultaneously continue to be responsible for it.

    23. Re:Showrunner? by newcastlejon · · Score: 1

      His leaving the star trek series means its going to be a lot less fun to look at.

      But hopefully more fun to listen to. Hannibal was one of the very few shows I've watched where I stopped part-way through. I could deal with the way concepts (and sometimes just isolated sentences) from the original films/books were jammed into odd places on the show but as time went on the show seemed bent on one-upping itself to the point of farce. Hannibal was beautifully directed, true, but for the most part the plot and dialogue were absolute dreck.

      --
      If God forks the Universe every time you roll a die, he'd better have a damned good memory.
    24. Re:Showrunner? by The-Ixian · · Score: 3

      I am not sure why people hate Voyager so much.

      I think it was really good Star Trek and I grew up watching TOS and remember when STTNG first came on the air.

      As a matter of fact, Voyager is about tied with STTNG in my book for best Star Trek series. It has the highest number of good characters. Tuvok is, by far, my favorite ST character of all time. But Seven of Nine and B'Elanna are excellent as well.

      I think Voyager was the last true Star Trek. After that it was all gritty "lens flare" Abrahms and serialized war stories.

      --
      My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
    25. Re:Showrunner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hardly self-explanatory. Because us as the audience would not care if an admin of production is gone, only if the leading character/actor was gone. Because that's who we connect with. Not a director or "Show Runner" who runs the show.

      So anyways, a showrunner is director, producer, the DP? (Director of Photography since you seem to be into movie terms).
          I've worked in film, commercials, etc. in production, pre-production, and post. This term is dumb and sound like 'the leading man' or some sort of cast role.

    26. Re:Showrunner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What IS self-explanatory is that all articles are written to shed light on something. To inform readers.

      So the author should consider their audience is NOT all film industry staff, so 99% readers will connect to shows through their leading characters, not some administrative person such as a 'creator, producer, and especially showrunner'.

      Imagine a headline that said "Coffee Planners Come Up With New Flavor Of Great Taste!!" Would you relate to a new drink? Of course you would.
      Upon reading the article and realize they're really talking about "Coffee Farmers Plan New Design Layouts For Fields That Are Tasteful Against Hillsides" you'd feel ripped off...

    27. Re:Showrunner? by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      What happened to "producer"?

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    28. Re:Showrunner? by jdavidb · · Score: 1

      I wonder what a showrunner is. Since I'm not involved in the production of TVs or Movies in any way, I don't have the first clue. Maybe TFS would explain this term before using it?

      It's like the DM.

    29. Re:Showrunner? by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      I wonder what a showrunner is. Since I'm not involved in the production of TVs or Movies in any way, I don't have the first clue. Maybe TFS would explain this term before using it?

      It's like the DM.

      So the showrunner has an extensive collection of dice?

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    30. Re:Showrunner? by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Huh? You're completely forgetting Enterprise, which came before JJ's lens-flare crap. Enterprise was surprisingly good; I turned up my nose at it, but got around to watching it a few years ago, and wished I had given it a chance when it was new. It had its problems of course, but overall it was fun to watch.

      The biggest problem with Enterprise, however, was the horrifically bad opening theme song. Just awful. Luckily, I watched it on Netflix, so I got really good at skipping past it.

      Also, the whole Xindi arc in season 3 was disappointing, but it was in direct response to 9/11 so it was somewhat understandable.

    31. Re:Showrunner? by jdavidb · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that's how I always assumed they did it. How else would it work? Like when Jim Kirk needs to somersault while sneaking up on Klingons in a corridor, they need to know if he succeeds or fails, and the Klingons get a saving throw to notice him.

    32. Re:Showrunner? by The-Ixian · · Score: 1

      No, I wasn't forgetting Enterprise.

      About the only good character (in my opinion) was Flox.

      I lost interest in the series as soon as it started diving into the serialized war stories (temporal war).

      I mean... it was ok... I just don't feel like it was Star Trek. You know, like utopian sandbox... granted, this is before we all started getting along... but that just means it isn't ST!

      --
      My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
    33. Re:Showrunner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am not sure why people hate Voyager so much.

      boring plots, shitty characters, mediocre acting

    34. Re:Showrunner? by DarthVain · · Score: 1

      Lazy writers is what was wrong with Voyager. Don't get me wrong I watched the whole thing and liked it, however it did two things more than another other Star Trek show and it really didn't need to.

      So here is a ship, flung into the unknown, farthest reaches of space, you can literally do anything with the story, and the environment, the amount of creativity is just about limitless.

      Instead we get by far the most "Holodeck" episodes, and OMG the holodeck has malfunctioned *again* and all the people are real and the safety protocols are off, and we're stuck in here, what are we to do! Then there is the time travel episodes, again why?

      About there only thing I can think of was that due to budgeting constraints it was cheaper to have a set that was an Irish bar or Nazi invasion, or re-runs of already produced material than coming up with new CGI and expensive sets.

      Though even that might be in the Star Trek tradition as I heard that was basically the reason for the creation of the "Transporter" was they didn't want to pay for the creation of all those transitional shuttle scenes it would take to visit planets.

    35. Re:Showrunner? by DarthVain · · Score: 1

      Well it also had Nelix as well who was annoying. Remember the Tulix or Nelvok or whatever the hell that episode was, good times that.

      Then there was Chakotay. The dream quests.... That whole baby thing. Granted I like the fact that they had a Native person in the show as a main figure twas about time really.

  7. Amazing Stories reboot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's more interesting than reheated Star Trek

  8. Axanar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We all know the executives are going to ruin this show.

    While they continue to fumble to get a new show out, we should keep the heat on them to allow better things to get made like Axanar.

    Prelude to Axanar
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    1. Re: Axanar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Awww, poor baby. Did he say your trigger word, Axanar? Don't worry, we'll find you a nice safe space.

    2. Re: Axanar by johnsmithperson123 · · Score: 1

      Let's face it: film executives are the worst things to ever happen to the quality of the industry, and Star Trek in particular.

    3. Re:Axanar by Gojira+Shipi-Taro · · Score: 1

      Fuck Axanar. The slime that made that trailer you linked tried to throw all the fan productions under the bus when he found out that CBS/Paramount wasn't going to let him print money with their property.

      --
      "Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked."; ~ Donald J. Trump
    4. Re:Axanar by The-Ixian · · Score: 2

      I LOVE the comfort of the old Star Trek format. The utopian idealness is what makes Star Trek what it is, imo. I am not a big fan of Enterprise for it's serializing of the franchise nor it's attempt to make it "gritty". I really enjoy the stand-alone episodes that deal with big ideas, moral dilemmas, political questions and more. An over-arching story line is fine (Voyager, DS9).

      Don't get me wrong, I love some serialized dramas, but it just isn't for Star Trek. I don't think that Gene Roddenberry would be super thrilled about the recent turn of his creation.

      I just have a feeling this new ST is going to be inspired more by the recent reboot/alternate "terrist" timeline movies than about the old ST.

      Hopefully I am wrong.

      --
      My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
  9. Forget that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It has Rod Roddenberry as an Executive Producer, reason enough to boycott it. He's almost as big an IP douche as Christopher Tolkien, only whereas the former has at least put some work into compilations and research and such, Rod was mostly been a whiney bitch in regards to his late father's work.

    Just go look at his wikipedia picture.

    1. Re:Forget that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > the former

      Wrong!

  10. Because Enterprise Faired So Poorly by EzInKy · · Score: 2

    Enterprise could have and should have been the ultimate Star Trek prequel, and other than the stupid temporal cold war and Xindi things, I quite enjoyed the show. It was quite fascinating to see how new technologies and discoveries were dealt with by the crew.

    Another series ripe for a reboot is Stargate. It is such a shame that its writers so jumped the shark with SGU. Members of forums I frequented quite loudly told them how the direction they were taking was destroying the franchise, but of course they knew better than Stargate fans what Stargate fans wanted to watch.

    --
    Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
    1. Re:Because Enterprise Faired So Poorly by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Prequels are really hard. You can't do anything that alters the outcomes of major events and even if you're writing about those prior events you have to resist the urge to put in characters from the later series or alter them significantly. Even Babylon 5 (which generally did well with continuity) failed the miserably with In the Beginning: Delenn and Sinclair had good reasons for being there, but the roles of G'Kar, Franklin and Mollari were contrived, as was Sheridan's interaction with some of the others, and one of the main events in the film (Sheridan destroying the Black Star) happens completely differently (and in a completely different location) to the how it was described in the series.

      Enterprise failed this by feeling compelled to introduce the Borg and the Ferengi (you think if the Earth had encountered the Borg back then that Picard wouldn't have received some secret briefing about them when he became captain of the Enterprise?). The first contact with the Klingons didn't go as described in later series and the Romulan war was originally described as being fought with nuclear weapons in primitive torpedos, before the Romulans had warp drive, yet Enterprise encounters them long after these events were meant to have happened.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    2. Re:Because Enterprise Faired So Poorly by EzInKy · · Score: 1

      The actor who portrayed Sinclair was the main reason for Babylon 5s downfall. The man couldn't act his way out of paper bag.

      --
      Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
    3. Re:Because Enterprise Faired So Poorly by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      I doubt that someone who was only in season 1 was to blame for anything much in a five-season TV show.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    4. Re:Because Enterprise Faired So Poorly by EzInKy · · Score: 1

      The stone who played Sinclair destroyed other seasons as well. Why did they allow O'Hare to ruin a magnificent series such as this anyway?

      --
      Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
    5. Re:Because Enterprise Faired So Poorly by Gojira+Shipi-Taro · · Score: 1

      That's an awful big mad-on you have for a now-deceased actor who wasn't nearly as bad as you describe.

      What did he do anyway? rape your dog to death?

      --
      "Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked."; ~ Donald J. Trump
    6. Re:Because Enterprise Faired So Poorly by jedidiah · · Score: 2

      The original ideas for the Romulan war were just stupid anyways. NONE of it made any sense. They needed a new canon either way. This is a good example of some of the weaknesses in TOS that just needed to get pushed out an airlock.

      You simply can't fight an interstellar war (in Trek terms) without Warp drive.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    7. Re:Because Enterprise Faired So Poorly by denzacar · · Score: 2

      Maybe he just generally hates people with mental illnesses?

      --
      Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    8. Re:Because Enterprise Faired So Poorly by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      The Romulans were confined to a single star system in early ToS and didn't get warp drive until later. The neutral zone was just a bit of interstellar space around their system. Somehow they went from that to being a major interstellar power in a few years. Now that I write that down, I agree with you: it didn't make sense.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    9. Re:Because Enterprise Faired So Poorly by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Enterprise could have and should have been the ultimate Star Trek prequel, and other than the stupid temporal cold war and Xindi things, I quite enjoyed the show. It was quite fascinating to see how new technologies and discoveries were dealt with by the crew.

      Yep, this is exactly what I thought of that show too. The other thing that really sucked about it was the horrible, horrible, opening theme song. Luckily when viewing it on Netflix, it's not hard to skip past: make sure to memorize the exact length of it.

      Seasons 1, 2, and 4 were mostly good. The whole Xindi thing was not, nor the "temporal cold war". Also, those 2 episodes in the last season about the mirror universe were fantastic, as was the opening theme for those episodes. It was there that I realized why the Star Trek future seems so unrealistic to us: we're living in the mirror universe.

    10. Re:Because Enterprise Faired So Poorly by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      The Romulans were confined to a single star system in early ToS and didn't get warp drive until later. The neutral zone was just a bit of interstellar space around their system.

      I must have missed that bit, I certainly don't remember it (not saying you're wrong, I just don't remember whatever dialog said that, and I did re-watch the 1st season episode about them fighting the Romulans about a year ago).

      Anyway, there was a lot of bad stuff like that in TOS, and even in TNG too, apparently written by people who don't understand basic astrophysics. A war with a race without warp drive makes no sense at all; either the combatants will be completely mismatched (any race without warp drive will be no match at all for one with it), or it'll be impossible to have the war in the first place (if both combatants are confined to sublight speeds, unless perhaps they're in neighboring star systems but even then you're looking at decades to send your Navy to fight the enemy).

      Remember also, in the 1st season of TOS, there was no Federation of Planets! They kept calling themselves "United Earth Ship Enterprise". They didn't invent the UFP until later, probably sometime in the 2nd season. They just completely glossed over that.

      Even TNG wasn't immune to science problems. The whole idea of the "star drive" section and saucer separating was idiotic, because apparently the saucer section didn't have warp drive. Without warp drive, you're not going to get very far; it's basically like having a canoe in the middle of the Atlantic. I still remember the episode "Arsenal of Freedom" where they do a saucer separation for some dumb reason (I think it was something related to convenience, not any kind of emergency). Without warp drive, the saucer section isn't going to even get out of the star system, much less to some other star system dozens of light-years away. If it takes 4 *years* for light to get from here to Alpha Centaur, that means the fastest the saucer can go that distance is some fraction of that, probably at least a decade (plus they'll have relativistic distortion, depending on how close to c they manage to go).

      The bottom line is: you really have to take some Star Trek stuff with a big grain of salt, and this especially goes for anything involving TOS and worst of all the 1st season of TOS. Their understanding of astrophysics on that show back then really wasn't that much better than "Lost in Space".

    11. Re:Because Enterprise Faired So Poorly by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Separating the saucer section made a little bit of sense if you think of it as a lifeboat - put everyone into the saucer, send the rest of the ship somewhere dangerous and leave them to be rescued. That was more or less how they used it in the pilot: something bad is happening, evacuate everyone from the bit that is going to go into a fight and put them somewhere safe and hope that the stardrive section can keep the dangerous thing away from the people. It seemed a pretty weak justification though.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    12. Re:Because Enterprise Faired So Poorly by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but for the same reasons I explained earlier, it IS really weak: a sublight spaceship compared to a warp-capable spaceship is basically like a wheelchair compared to an Indy car. If they're worried about some hostile party, that saucer section isn't going to be able to evade the warp-capable hostile party in any way. At the very best, they could try to hide the saucer in some other star system (maybe land it on a planet), and then warp away to the fight, but that assumes they know well in advance that they're likely to be in a big fight in a specific location, which is one hell of an assumption.

  11. The Great Bird of the Galaxy.... by beheaderaswp · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is such a sad situation, as corporations are cashing in on the legacy of Gene Roddenberry.

    Since his death, the echoes of his influence have faded. Resulting in a "Star Trek in name only" sci-fi universe. It's sad, but predictable. Personally, I'd be gratified if the show never made it out of the gate. The reboot movies were marginal at best, and we cannot expect much better from the series.

    The re-imagined Battlestar Galactica was a psychodrama in space- do we want to see that aboard the Enterprise?

    --
    Another consultant who stuck it out.

    "We are the Priests, of the Temples of Syrinx..."
    1. Re: The Great Bird of the Galaxy.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Since the reimagined BSG was way better and far more successful and popular than the original, I'd say yes. Same about the Trek reboots. It may hurt you and make you cry and stomp your feet, but nobody wants their franchise associated with a bunch of socially deficient autistic nerds. Roddenberry was a mediocre writer who happened on a good idea (that he stole from Heinlein anyway) and almost ran it into the ground with his hackneyed starry-eyed philosophy that would feel corny even for My Little Pony. Deal with it.

    2. Re:The Great Bird of the Galaxy.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      yes I'd definitely want to see some mature script - BSO was such crap they canceled it after 20 episodes.

    3. Re:The Great Bird of the Galaxy.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If we get a masterpiece like Battlestar Galactica, then yes, count me in!
      There's always the old series, but even us die-hard fans are hard-pressed to see the same plots and characters over and over again. Besides, if GF can watch ST, then nirvana is becoming near.

      Unfortunately, BSG was too much "space and psycho" for my GF.

    4. Re:The Great Bird of the Galaxy.... by LordWabbit2 · · Score: 1

      Most American series end up being drama's, regardless of their intended genre, fvcken annoying.

      --
      There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
    5. Re:The Great Bird of the Galaxy.... by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This is such a sad situation, as corporations are cashing in on the legacy of Gene Roddenberry.

      Since his death, the echoes of his influence have faded. Resulting in a "Star Trek in name only" sci-fi universe.

      Unfortunately there are always people like you. I'll bet you watched maybe a handful of episodes of anything not TOS or STTNG (maybe not even that) and dismissed them. Or maybe you've never seen anything after STTNG. The people I know who bitch the most in the USA about airline security are people who never, ever fly. The people who bitch the most about Trek after TOS are those who never watched it either.

      As a long time fan, I can tell you that Roddenberry's influence and importance to Trek is vastly overrated. Season 3 of TOS was pretty much done with him in a caretaker role. Season 3 wasn't perfect (Spock's Brain) but it did have some really good episodes too. The Next Generation only got good after Roddenberry's influence waned due to health issues and Michael Piller basically ran things. Roddenberry had a fairly negative influence on STTNG in my opinion. He demanded rewrites that weren't necessary or better just to push his own particular vision of the future. He was kind of infamous before STTNG started for maybe being way too focused on trying to squeeze every possible dollar out of TOS, not because he loved Trek, but because he loved the money it brought. He was also kind of infamous for not paying his employees very well, which led to the situation where to avoid giving some assistant a raise he gave the guy a new job title instead and in theory made that guy the sole determiner of what was and was not Star Trek canon. That led to this guy saying that Star Trek The Animated Series was not canon, a decision still not accepted by a large number of Trek fans. Note that Roddenberry himself never said that the animated series wasn't canon. He let some dude who worked for him make the determination because it allowed him to avoid giving the guy a raise. I appreciate what he did, with some reservations, for Trek. Note that good people like David Gerrold and DC Fontana had little to no impact on STTNG because of issues either directly with Roddenberry or issues with others that he could have but chose not to resolve. Roddenberry deserves some big criticism in my opinion for the whole Gates McFadden issue where she was fired after season 1 because she complained about the sexist scripts in the season. Patrick Stewart has stated that he was shocked when she was fired because he and others on the show felt the same way about the scripts. Note that Roddenberry had a huge influence on the season 1 scripts so he was either personally responsible for a lot of what she complained about or simply did nothing to tone it down. Roddenberry may not have been the person who fired her, but he sure as hell didn't fight it and jumped at the chance to bring on his old friend Diana Muldaur to replace McFadden. McFadden returned for season 3 probably because Roddenberry's health had declined to a point where he couldn't really do anything on STTNG any more. But he deserves some praise too. He let Denis Crosby out of her contract in season 1 as a person favor to her when he didn't have to. Wil Wheaton also has very good things to say about him. It's a bit of a mixed legacy.

    6. Re: The Great Bird of the Galaxy.... by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      I'm guessing when Superman recently learned that "sometimes, he must kill", you were like right on! Screw daddy's Goody Two Shoes Superman and milksop Clark Kent!

      Mercifully, we have found a home for that in Supergirl. Enjoy your asshole-rich Superman movies.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    7. Re:The Great Bird of the Galaxy.... by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      WTF? The re-imagined BSG was utterly fantastic... well, at least for the mini-series and the first couple seasons.

      Unfortunately, it jumped the shark in season 3 I think, and the whole "final 5" thing was just ridiculous and kinda ruined it.

      But yeah, if they could give us something like Moore's BSG first 2 seasons, then count me in.

      The main problem with BSG anyway was that it had to have some kind of ending which explained things, since the humans there were obviously related to us somehow, but it wasn't apparent how, so they ended coming up with a horrible supernatural explanation at the end. Star Trek shouldn't have that problem, especially if they could avoid the urge to have a big "story arc", and stick to self-contained episodes (though with some reasonable character development along the way that assumes some knowledge of past episodes, but not too much). It's not about explaining humanity's origins, it's about a glimpse into life in the future.

    8. Re:The Great Bird of the Galaxy.... by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      You're missing a lot of the TNG story I think, and in particular two people. McFadden left the show because she didn't get along with Maurice Hurley, the lead writer, and Gene's drinking buddy (probably because of the sexist stuff you cited, but probably many other things too). Hurley wasn't all bad (he invented the Borg), but mostly his writing was crap, and you can tell because season 1 was so bad. Hurley left after season 2.

      The other person you're missing is Rick Berman. He took over running the show in season 3. He begged McFadden to come back, and is the reason she did. Also notice that season 3 was probably the best of the lot, along with 4 and 5, where he was running things. All the "classic" TNG episodes were made under Berman's supervision. Berman's gotten a lot of flak for stuff (he also went on to work on DS9, VOY, etc.), but he really deserves full credit for turning TNG around and keeping it from sinking, and making it a real gem.

      Roddenberry's problem is that he was just like George Lucas: an ideas man, but terrible at execution. He came up with some great high-level ideas for stuff, but when he was too involved in the low-level details, the results were bad. He also apparently sucked at picking good lieutenants. Berman is probably the opposite.

  12. "What no dead people fest?" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Im otta here!"

  13. My favorite one is gaffer by Ecuador · · Score: 1

    My favorite one is "gaffer". I haven't looked it up because I like to imagine that the gaffer is either someone responsible for the "gaffes" from the start, or some sort of honorary title given at the end to the cast member with the most gaffes.

    --
    Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
    1. Re:My favorite one is gaffer by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      I knew about "gaffer's tape", so I always assumed gaffer was involved with setting up and tearing down sets - but It turns out he's the lead electrician for the production.

      Actually the grip and best boy also are involved with lighting... I guess it's not surprising there are so many people involved with lighting on a movie or TV set. But the names are fascinating.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
  14. Re: They tell you upfront it isn't going to be goo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah you've never actually watched TOS or you'd know that Kirk was only interested in his ship. He didn't "woo" anyone.

  15. Re: They tell you upfront it isn't going to be goo by Gavagai80 · · Score: 1

    Not true at all. The ship is his long term relationship, but he woos women constantly and loves them for a very short term. This has diplomatic advantages in influencing their behavior during first contact.

    --
    This space intentionally left blank
  16. Incorrect headline. by CaptainJeff · · Score: 1

    The delay came first. Star Trek Discovery was delayed until May 2017 way back in September 2016.Here's the link.

    Fuller reduced his duties just this week (late October 2016).

  17. After MacGyver by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    After MacGyver my trust in CBS to warm up any old series is below zero. Every geek's favourite smart, gun hating, extra-legal, teetotaler, loner, semi-vegetarian pacifist who actually understood how things worked has turned into an idiotic gun loving, face punching, government employee always accompanied by a sidekick that just wants to drink beers around the world's fakest campfire.

    1. Re:After MacGyver by The-Ixian · · Score: 1

      I did not even know that MacG had even been rebooted....

      It sounds like the new version is nothing more than Burn Notice...

      --
      My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
  18. There. Fixed that for you. by denzacar · · Score: 1

    The reboot movies were marginal at best, and we cannot expect much better from the series.

    The reboot movies were, at best, "movies". And we cannot expect much better from the series.

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    1. Re:There. Fixed that for you. by The-Ixian · · Score: 1

      I agree.

      I think that we have seen the last of the utopian sandbox format of the series which I really love.

      --
      My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
  19. Star Trek: Anagram by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Janeway?
    Nay - a Jew!

  20. (Psst) . . Stock tip . . . just keep it on the DL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Buy stock in Sherwin-Williams. I'm expecting a massive rush of people wanting to watch it dry.

  21. Re: They tell you upfront it isn't going to be goo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Green scarf or purple scarf?

  22. Re: They tell you upfront it isn't going to be goo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They can't make a series about exploration or discovery. As a society we've stopped looking up and out. So, instead, we have this incessant navel gazing.

  23. My prediction by slapout · · Score: 2

    Will probably be full of SJW stuff and
    1) Canceled after 3 months
    2) Continue, but no one will watch it

    --
    Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
    1. Re:My prediction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering that a big part of the appeal and legacy of Star Trek the progressive social stance that it had (for its time), I would certainly hope it would be full of what you deem as "SJW" stuff. Star Trek depicted a future where humans overcame sexism, racism, homophobia, war, and poverty.

      Close minded network executives made it difficult, but Gene managed to have a bridge crew with a black women, an Asian, an alien, and even a Russian (eventually). They had episodes where space was an allegory for the injustices of war and racism that were happening on our own planet, which were topics that they would not have allowed to explore on TV had they done it directly.

      Slashdot is a community of highly educated people, many who have an interest in science or sci-fi. It is truly sad to see the level of hate and intolerance that has taken root here. We should be above that.

      So many posters are throwing around the term "SJW" in their numerous rants, living up to all the worst angry while male & socially inept nerd stereotypes. These views and attitudes doesn't mesh with Star Trek fandom. Fans who complain about keeping social justice out of the show have truly "have grown so old and so inflexible that (they) have outlived our usefulness" to Star Trek.

    2. Re:My prediction by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 1

      Star Trek depicted a future where humans overcame sexism, racism, homophobia...

      Yes, it did. By depicting those things as non-issues. Everyone on the bridge of the TOS Enterprise completely ignored the color of Uhura's skin. It wasn't relevant. That's how a non-racist society behaves.

      SJWs are busily inventing new racism and sexism, constantly. Rather than ignoring race or gender in a person, it's the only thing that matters about the person. It's so fantastically wrong-headed, it'd be funny if it wasn't fucking up an entire generation, and an entire generation of entertainment.

  24. Delayed? by hackel · · Score: 1

    How exactly has the show been "further delayed" after the transition of Bryan Fuller? The May 2017 premier date was announced long before Fuller left. This headline clearly made it sound like an *additional* delay. Click-bait.

  25. Re: They tell you upfront it isn't going to be goo by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    It's a sash. And a completely different show.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  26. Re: They tell you upfront it isn't going to be goo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Less typecast, and more finding her character lacking character. She hated it.

    She barely had any role in the scripts, and rather than fight for stories, she decided to leave.