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It's Harder To Get an Uber or Lyft If You're Black, Study Says (time.com)
Black riders have to wait "significantly longer" for their Uber cabs and experience "double" the cancellation rates of white passengers, according to a new study published by the National Bureau of Economic Research. The study, which also observed a similar pattern among Lyft drivers, claims it has found "significant evidence of racial discrimination" in ride-hailing services based on a pair of experiments in Seattle and Boston. From a report on Time: Researchers pulled data from more than 1,400 field tests conducted using mostly Uber and Lyft, but also traditional taxi services. The findings in Boston and Seattle showed evidence of discrimination that manifested in either longer waits or a higher likelihood for cancellation. In Seattle, African-American UberX users on average waited 5 minutes and 15 seconds for pick-ups -- roughly 30% longer than white riders, who waited 4 minutes on average. Lyft users did not experience a significant difference during the experiment. When the research assistants switched between using white-sounding and African-American-sounding names, they did not find a significant increase in their wait times. But the overall rates at which drivers canceled the ride after it was assigned to them was more than one in 10 for riders with black-sounding names, roughly double than for riders with white-sounding names.
The bit that they are failing to mention is how many of these drivers are minorities themselves. When I was in Seattle for PAX we had one white driver, every other one was black or Arab.
>Are you saying that you can tell someone's race by their name? But if races are social constructs and not real, what are they really measuring?
Prejudice.
>can't tell heritage by name
You really can't tell if someone who has a french, indian, polish, italian heritage by their last name? You need to get out more.
--
BMO
When this study was done for job interviews, the test was always low class black names vs. obvious middle/upper class white names.
Nobody has tested 'LaTrina' vs. 'Harley', just 'LaTrina' vs 'Richard'. Because they know the answers they are looking for.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Or at least pass the spliff, you cheapskate!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Irrelevant. Being a member of a minority does not mean you aren't capable of being a racist asshole.
It's not that the riders were black, but rather that the names chosen "sounded black". This is significant as it introduces culture as a possible data point which wasn't controlled for.
Were I a freelance driver, I'm not sure how much I'd want to deal with a "La-DASH-ya" either.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
Don't shout me down.. This is an objective observation. Laquisha. Sharniqua. Tomikula. Le'Deontay I could go on... The names are easy to fabricate and have no ancestral source. We see them all the time in the South.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have backups to corrupt.
I've known Nigerians with Nigerian-sounding names who became US citizens and drove taxis. Only God knows what language they scream in when Brazil is beating Nigeria in the soccer playoffs.
If you mean that I don't get to spend much time in the US, then yes, it's been a while that I was across the pond.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I really hope that no one is naming their baby girls after a bathroom.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Irrelevant. Being a member of a minority does not mean you aren't capable of being a racist asshole.
Didn't you get the memo? A member of an oppressed minority cannot be racist.
They never did a fair test.
Watch the lack of responses to people named 'Harley', 'Bubba' and 'Billy-Joe-Jim-Bob'. But you'll never know, because that test wouldn't have gotten any press.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Quick! Someone do a TED talk!
Seastead this.
"Elon" (as in Elon Musk).
He's an African-American from South Africa.
Yeah, but it was a racist who sent out that memo so it doesn't count.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
You are a racist for pointing out the alternative meaning.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Most blacks tend to live in black neighborhoods, many of which are referred to as 'hoods' and not in a positive way. There are probably many less drivers in those areas or that wants to go there, is why there is a delay.
Most drivers don't want to go 15 miles out of their way to a known bad neighborhood at extra expense and risk to pick up someone. Its not racism but reality.
I am white but live in a 'hood' so I do know a little bit about this. No pizza delivery is available to me from any of the major pizza companies either.
I delivered pizzas as a part-time job when I was in high school. One particular area had a high black population. All the drivers hated delivering there and would try to skip out on the delivery (go to bathroom, take a break, etc), not because the customers were black, but because they didn't tip well. The same thing happened in another area which was predominantly white, but low income (also bad tippers).
Technically this still counts as a prejudice (pre-judging the customer as a bad tipper based solely on where they live). But it's one which is statistically correct most of the time rather than some of the time.
Racist != prejudiced or bigoted.
Can you clarify what it does mean then?
> When this study was done for job interviews, the test was always low class black names vs. obvious middle/upper class white names.
Bullshit. They used names like Jamal and Lakisha. Those both are names from the african continent, neither are 'ghetto' mispronunciations of everyday products.
It is crazy what theories assholes will invent to deny that racism exists. The funny thing is that such denials end up as a sort of meta independent proof themselves.
Maybe they're reacting from experience and don't want to visit certain neighborhoods where the crime rate is higher. It may be a self-preservation thing. Not everyone that is careful about being robbed is a racist.
Most blacks tend to live in black neighborhoods
Actually, they don't. Most blacks live in neighborhoods with sizable populations of white, Hispanic, etc. At the last census, only 28% of blacks lived in neighborhoods that were at least 85% black.
They don't. But that doesn't stop the perception that they do, which perpetuates the myth (and turns into a correlation).
The statistics are clear, a never-accused white is more likely to commit a crime than a never-accused Black. But Blacks are much more likely to be falsely accused, and end up in jail (or dead, like Trevon Martin) for some false accusation by someone. And once they've been through the prison system, they have recidivism similar to everyone else, and end up re-offenders.
If we stopped throwing innocent Blacks in jail, they'd offend less than whites. If we stopped the prisons from being training/breeding grounds for hardened criminals, Blacks would offend less than whites. Blacks in the US are less violent and criminal than whites (when you correct for recidivism).
It's mainly the perception and the perpetuation of the perception that exists.
But my question is, who cares if they are discriminated against for a cab? Trump discriminates openly against Blacks looking for homes, and he's praised for it. Blacks are screened out for jobs for "ethnic" names, or other demographic information that identifies them as minority. So if you can't get a job, and can't get a place to live, why would you care about a cab? Oh, wait. "Uber" gets the front page, even if irrelevant.
Learn to love Alaska
Would you pick up someone named Judas Iscariot? Adolf Hitler? Josef Stalin?
Why would someone name their child a name that makes it harder for them in life?
Hey now! I would LOVE to name my kid Golgarth! That sounds like an awesome name and it DOES sound Viking.
"This is my son, Golgarth. His sister's name is LaTanya"
That could work.
Irrelevant. Being a member of a minority does not mean you aren't capable of being a racist asshole.
Indeed. Surprisingly, it's even common that some members of minority groups are racist assholes against their own group. The stereotypical example is black male police officers who racially profile and even brutalize black men.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
Or maybe it's because the pick up point is in a high crime area.
No. The study controlled for that. The pickup locations were the same.
Interpretation of, or importance placed on a skin color might be a social construct, but it's very much a real phenomenon. To stick your head in the sand and ask assert that race is not real requires wilful naivete.
As for names it's simply a combination of perceptions weighed against what someone feels are averages. In short, it looks like for white people, somewhat unusual names are more commonly found given to the children of wealthy households. Common names are commonly given to children in wealthy, middle-income, and poor households. There are very few names that indicate that a white person grew up in a poor household, so it's hard to pre-judge a name on a screen if it's something like John or Judy or William. By contrast, it appears that among black people, uncommon or unusual names are more often found among those who were born into poor households than those born into middle-income or wealthy households. Those latter two appear to source names from basically the same set as everyone else. It's probably also accurate to say that lots of children born into poor black households also get common names.
Now, how this applies to the world we live in. America has a fairly socially-mobile society. Poor people might become rise to middle-income or wealth in the right circumstances and those who started out life in other ranges themselves could end up better or worse off. Unfortunately a lot of people that start out life poor don't get the best upbringing in terms of education or parental example and discipline. When someone has a name that is commonly found among all walks of life then that name does not tell someone else anything about the person, but if someone's name is most likely found among a segment of of the population that has all of the negative perceptions of being poor associated with it and might imply negative things about the parent that gave the name and raised the child, then it's very easy for someone to make conclusions, right or wrong, about the person. Add racial prejudice in on top of that and it's a recipe for problems.
A lot of Americans of Asian ancestry realized this and basically stopped giving their children names that are obviously of Asian origin. A friend of mine that's Muslim has suggested to his friends that they not give their children names that are very obviously Arab or Persian or Pakistani. That doesn't mean that they have to use "Christian" names, but there are plenty of other names that are more ambiguous.
The name given to one's child is very important. Any desire for whimsy must be balanced against real consideration for how that name will let the child, and later the adult, be perceived.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Most drivers don't want to go 15 miles out of their way
What do you mean, "Out of their way"? They're ride sharing! Someone has to be going that way.
Or did you mean the Uber and Lyft cab company drivers don't want to go pick up a ride in exchange for money?
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
Having also delivered pizza. The _worst_ tippers are in the rich neighborhoods and the ghetto. People that also _work_ for a living are likely to tip decently.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Yeah ? You want unlimited immigration ?
Because if you don't, and I'd be pretty shocked if you really believed that in real life, then at some point you have to stop someone from coming.
You can't have it both ways, either you're pro unlimited immigration, or you're in the same boat as the brexiters.
White South Africans don't consider themselves African. So your assertion is wrong. He's Dutch-American (or something like that). As most white people who move out of Africa claim the heritage of their ancestors, not location of birth as their ethnicity.
Learn to love Alaska
Spoken like a True Democrat that ignores facts and statistic's. Like how African american teens are 10 times more likely to commit a homicide then whites and Hispanic's COMBINED. African american's in general are 8 times more likely commit a Homicide then Whites and Hispanic's COMBINED. Facts and stats show there is a very violent sub culture in african American community. You claim its a perception but the facts show the truth, 647 people been killed in chicago this year( as of right now), Outta all those people only 6 were at the hands of a cop. Outta all those 647 people 481 were African American's killed. Take 1 guess at only time they ever protested? The site doesn't break down racial or ethnicity of 6 people killed by police but least 475 weren't killed by police but that was only time they ever protest is when its a person wear a badge.
that LaTrina has the same right to a job she's qualified for as Richard? You're basically saying racism's OK as long as it's not too bleeding obvious. Speaking of which, of course nobody f'n had to test LaTrina vs Harley. They never got that far because the most ridiculous test cases blew up first. You would think folks would at least _try_ to hide their racism. Not so much.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
A gentleman drives a Bentley. A gentleman is driven in a Rolls. Keep it straight, old chap.
> But naming their son "John" is perfectly OK, right?
Yup. This is why off the boat immigrants will give their children nice WASP names. They aren't trying to actively sabotage their children's success.
Actual Africans will probably avoid this kind of nonsense.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
When I was in college I volunteered in a community service group and became one of the managers. I noticed that one of the other managers complained a lot about his volunteers -- they had a bad attitude, they weren't reliable, etc. Which was weird because I'd worked with the same people and found them to be perfectly reliable and enthusiastic. So I began to watch this guy, and the problem became obvious: he was a condescending jerk who pissed his volunteers off, and when they wouldn't work with him anymore he'd badmouth them. Then the other managers would get a negative attitude towards that volunteer and he'd end up quitting.
Now I don't want to overstate the case here, but there is such a thing as a self-fulfilling prophecy. If drivers try to avoid low-income neighborhoods, then people in that neighborhood will experience, on average, bad service from your pizzeria. Even when a delivery is on time, expecting it to be late poisons the experience. It takes a lot of good customer service to undo even a single instance of bad service, much less a pattern of it.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
That's so 1990s. The modern SJW definition is "prejudice plus power" which is how they exclude minorities from being racist even when they are blatantly racist by the older definition. See, a black Uber driver may be very very prejudiced.. but he has no power, due to the assumption of a white supremacist society propped up by structural racism etc... so he's not racist.
Find a news story about any of the recent black involved shootings. Look at the names.
OK, let's see. I'll take the easy way out and simply crib from a page that lists a bunch of people who have been shot by the police. Before anyone asks, it's the result of a Google search and the first page that had a decent number of names. The complete list can be found here.
Keith Childress ... no, wait, that's Mexican. Does it count? On a scale of black to white, is Mexican black enough?)
Bettie Jones
Kevin Mathews
Leroy Browning
Roy Nelson
Miguel Espinal (Hey that's
Nathaniel Pickett
Tiara Thomas (ok, that one is, right?)
Cornelius Brown
Chandra Weaver
Jamar Clark (Hey, that name is so black it can play basketball by itself!)
Richard Perkins
Stephen Tooson
Michael Lee Marshall
Alonzo Smith
Yvens Seide (that one is at least odd, but black? Sounds more like French... ok, let's be honest, I wouldn't wanna drive Frenchies either, so it counts)
Anthony Ashford
Lamontez Jones (Hey, another hit)
Rayshaun Cole (Is that black? At least it's an odd name, let's count it)
Paterson Brown
Christopher Kimble
Junior Prosper (Is that even a name? It counts!)
Keith McLeod
Wayne Wheeler
India Kager (Now that's one name that sure counts! Navy Vet or not)
Tyree Crawford (Hey, hey, we at least found ONE that fits the stereotype!)
James Carney
Felix Kumi
And so on. So are there "black" names? Probably. But they sure are outnumbered by names that I would stereotypically expect from white people. Felix. Keith. James. Michael.
So you can maybe point out how I should have known from the name alone that these people are black?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Furthermore, if you're black and your last name is "smith" it's likely that it was the name of the family that owned your ancestors.
Which is why the whole "Shaniqua" thing. It's why Malcolm X used the name he used - to abandon the "slave name."
It's not a "stupid" cultural thing. There is a rationale behind it if you bother to even use google for 5 minutes (I knew this when I was 5. Before the Internet. Back when people had to travel miles to call me an asshole. Up hill. Both ways. In the snow.).
Knowing history makes the world less confusing.
--
BMO
First, I resemble that comment!!
Second. I'll admit I'm am racist, and so are most people we know. A lot of us feel prejudice and judge people by their appearance, and even within a race. We are more likely to hold the door open for the prettier blonde, criticize the fat person ordering more than they require, and so on. The reason we judge people is because it was incredibly important for our survival pre-civilization. Faces are incredibly expressive, and sizing one another up tells you a great deal about the possible outcomes of a given encounter. The blonde excites you. Dwayne "the Rock" Johnson would scare the piss out of most people if his face was angry. We needed that information to survive.
The reason Uber drivers do not pick up black people as willingly as whites is because history has taught them to be racist. But it's not their fault. They are wired that way, they follow their prejudices. Their prejudice tells them "a black person is more likely to commit a crime, and I may be the victim of that crime". And statistically, that prejudice is right. Black men are more likely to get arrested, and convicted of violent crime. The problem is that the state of racism is a twisted sort of self-fulfilling prophesy. Statistically, that Uber guy you picked up later than his white counterpart would be slightly later to a job interview, get the job less often, earn less as a result, and render him more desperate to commit a crime in the first place. Thats the problem.
The disadvantage non-whites experience is due to our prejudices, is what it is due to their circumstances. Now, I'm not excusing any crime anyone commits ever, I'm just point out the cycle of self-perpetuating racism that exists. If you want to solve the problem, first understand the data. Our prejudices make their lives harder, and when they react badly to that hard life, we stand back and think "See? I was right all along. Next time I encounter one, ill be weary". It's so sad.
> When this study was done for job interviews, the test was always low class black names vs. obvious middle/upper class white names.
Bullshit. They used names like Jamal and Lakisha. Those both are names from the african continent, neither are 'ghetto' mispronunciations of everyday products.
How the hell did you get modded up? Ever been to the African continent? Those aren't African-continent names, those are ghetto names. Names from the African continent are nowhere close to the names they used. Names like Jamal and Lakisha are clearly not the same as Xolani, Busiswe, Tembelihle, Musi, Lindiwe, etc. Those who don't have ethnic names either have English words seen by locals as auspicious (Hope, Precious, Patience, Blessing, Virtue, etc) or have Anglo names (Richard, Elvis, Mike, George, etc).
Names of African-continent descent are easy to spot as they are rooted in some variant of either French or the older Bantu languages. You, and the idiots who voted you up, have obviously never been to Africa. Before you spout off like an expert you should perhaps go vacation there first.
I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
Maybe they're reacting from experience and don't want to visit certain neighborhoods
This is actually insightful, but not in the way the author and mods probably think.
The thing is, the people of color I've seen comment about Uber almost all love the heck of out it. Sure, they get double the turndowns a white rider might get, but they can actually eventually get a ride with Uber. Taxis flat out refuse to go into their neighborhood. Plus, an Uber driver that refuses a rider in a way that rider finds unfair is pretty much guaranteed to get a bad review, dropping their driver rating. That's really important to drivers, so there's incentive to not be a douchebag that taxi drivers don't have.
I'd like to point out that there's absolutely nothing forcing you to keep your given name. You can call yourself whatever you want.
It's pretty easy to legally change your name. My ex-wife did it after we got married; many women still do these days, to take their husband's last name. But while you're filing the name-change request, there's nothing stopping you from writing in a different first name. That's exactly what she did: she hated her first name that her mother had given her. So she found a totally different name that she liked and changed both names in one go.
But you don't even have to bother with going to court if you don't want to: she started calling herself by my last name for some time before going through the legal motions. It's not like places are going to ask to see your birth certificate. It's really quite trivial to just go by an alias.
So I'm not saying it's OK to be prejudiced against people for their dumb names, but there's really nothing stopping them from changing those dumb names if they want.
> When this study was done for job interviews, the test was always low class black names vs. obvious middle/upper class white names.
Bullshit. They used names like Jamal and Lakisha. Those both are names from the african continent, neither are 'ghetto' mispronunciations of everyday products.
It is crazy what theories assholes will invent to deny that racism exists. The funny thing is that such denials end up as a sort of meta independent proof themselves.
While I think name-based studies like this have the potential to be the least biased because they remove hard-to-control issues related to appearance and behavior, that's a load of shit. Unless you have some income data (or other socioeconomic data) related to these names that you're holding out on?
If they can't bother to find "white" names that have socioeconomic stats roughly approximating the "black" names they're using, or at least find a plausible way to correct for the differences, AND establish that certain names really are typically viewed as white or black, these conclusions are pretty suspect.
I very strongly suspect that the effect they're trying to measure is real and significant and of course racism is a thing (including blacks against blacks and blacks against whites for that matter), but that doesn't mean you can handwave this away by some astoundingly irrelevant assertion (if it's even true) that Jamal is a perfectly common name "from the African continent."