Man Who Named His Wi-Fi SSID 'Daesh 21' Prosecuted Under French Anti-Terror Law (arstechnica.com)

An 18-year-old man from Dijon was convicted for "praising terrorism" and was given a suspended sentence of three months in prison because the SSID of his Wi-Fi network was "Daesh 21." From an article on Ars Technica:Daesh is the Arabic acronym for Islamic State, and "21" in this context represents the number for the Cote d'Or, the French department, or province, where Dijon is located. The unnamed man was prosecuted under a new French anti-terrorism law (Article 421-2-5) passed in November 2014 that makes it a crime to "directly provoke acts of terrorism or to publicly praise one such act." If convicted, offenders can be punished by up to five years in prison and a $83,000 fine. Such penalties are raised to seven years and $111,000 if the crime was committed by using a "public online communication service." A local newspaper, Le Bien public, described the man as being "totally dazed" in front of the court and said that he was "not a terrorist." He was first sentenced to 100 hours of community service, which he refused, but he was finally given a three-month suspended sentence.

Comments

Daesh is depreciatory

[RandomSurfer314]

How is that sentence possible? Using "daesh" does not appraise IS at all. They hate that name.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

More to the point: how does naming a Wifi access point "Daesh" possibly constitute apology of terrorism, or aiding terrorists? It's not like some random dude will drive by with a laptop and suddenly go "Well, would you look at that: that there Wifi access point is called "Daesh". I suddenly want to kill infidels! Allahu akbar!!!"

What that is really is a clear example of the french democracy going 1984...

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

Cheese eating surrender monkeys try their best to stand firm against threats, failing miserably and looking like fools. Overreacting and antagonizing their own people against them. Funny stuff.

Re: Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

perhaps its intent or the interpretation of it. based on what they said its like him wanting them in that area or something. we dont hear the kids explination. personally i think france is going to far but i do not know all the facts.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[lgw]

One of my neighbors has his WiFi access point named after the local pro football team. I think a reasonable person would conclude he's a fan of that team. Same thing here.

Wars are as much about moral support as they are about soldiers and weapons. Giving moral support to the enemy is on par with helping them get weapons. That really is the way war works.

When a group (nation or otherwise) makes a habit of killing people in your country, showing support for them is a bad life strategy.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[unixisc]

Incidentally, what does that group call themselves? Be it in Arabic or English?

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

I had my wifi named "fbi surveillance van" for several years, currently it is named Virus_distribution. Does that mean i support FBI surveillance of my community or am distributing a virus?

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Cow Ward]

That's actually a myth. "Daesh" is just the Arabic version of "ISIS". The fact that it sort of sounds like a word they don't like isn't really a factor.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Joviex]

One of my neighbors has his WiFi access point named after the local pro football team. I think a reasonable person would conclude he's a fan of that team. Same thing here.

Ah yes, the good old assumption law.

Instead of asking his intent, and getting his take, like maybe he wanted to mark the NAME and the PLACE where a POS was held, in a public way, for people to remember, and never forget a POS's NAME.

Luckily, we don't need to know his INTENT. We can just go arrest him, because of the good old assumption law!

We have this here too! Brought to you in America by first world privilage birth, and re-enforced by the Patriot Act.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

If the common term used to refer to that team by the competition would be "shitfaces" and your neighbour would use that term for his wifi, would you still conclude he is a fan?

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Archangel Michael]

Instead of asking his intent

Ah yes, asking for his intent, wherein he'll lie, distort or otherwise come up with some lame excuse. I keep seeing this theme throughout internet arguments. Intent is really hard to prove. Which is why conspiracy charges rarely require it, where you have to prove they intended to carry out the conspiracy.

Next time you're caught speeding, try telling the cop, "I didn't intend to speed" and see where it gets you.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

When free speech is suppressed, the terrorists have won.

Re: Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, the police are coming to your house to arrest you right now.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're a rich and/or powerful person, "Sorry, I didn't mean to" can get you quite far.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Archangel Michael]

If you're asking if I am rich or famous ... "I don't recall" ;)

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

my network is currently named "RIAA Monitor Node" I sure as fuck dont support them.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[cybersquid]

My SSID is "Your kids scream too much". Would you really think I am praising your children?

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

One of my old neighbors runs one name "FBI Survellance", yes with surveillance misspelled. Can they be arrested for impersonation?

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't seems to understand how things work. If you named your SSID that it would mean you hate someones kids who scream too much. If you name it "I like your screaming kids" then you would be praising their children..... And probably raise some other red flags.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

Depends. Does the FBI operate in France? Then you have your answer.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

What about my neighbors: FBI Surveillance Van, Netgear 42, and Network Not Found. Am I to believe that I really have the FBI agent, a nether apologist and that a WiFi network wasn't found?

You know that ISIL HATES being called DAESH and have threatened to cut out the tongues of whomever calls them that. Right?
Why would people conclude that he is a supporter?

Maybe this was just another bad too-much-tongue-in-not-enough-cheek wifi joke and not a ISIL supporter.

-Kate

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Joviex]

Instead of asking his intent

Ah yes, asking for his intent, wherein he'll lie, distort or otherwise come up with some lame excuse. I keep seeing this theme throughout internet argument

LOL! So your first specious reason is invalid, but here is the second specious reason the first one is re-validated?

Bro, thanks for the laugh off my ass today.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[ChrisMaple]

Having fun repeating that simpleton's mantra?

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[OhSoLaMeow]

Ah yes, asking for his intent, wherein he'll lie, distort or otherwise come up with some lame excuse. I keep seeing this theme throughout internet arguments. Intent is really hard to prove. Which is why conspiracy charges rarely require it, where you have to prove they intended to carry out the conspiracy.

Next time you're caught speeding, try telling the cop, "I didn't intend to speed" and see where it gets you.

I didn't intend to wipe my server with a cloth.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

When a group (nation or otherwise) makes a habit of killing people in your country, showing support for them is a bad life strategy.

Yeah - let's not show any support for them.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[DarkOx]

Giving moral support to the enemy is on par with helping them get weapons. That really is the way war works.

No its not there is no moral equivalence there at all in fact! The right to question your own people/nations motives and the justification or lack there of for a war is crucial part of democracy. I am not suggesting at all there won't be am impact in doing so but the right to speak out is one of the core western values we should be fighting to up hold. Yes even when the occasional moron wants to make the argument we should reform our society into violent extremist Islamic theocracy. The correct response isn't to jail them, its to ignore their position if you are confident they will be dismissed as a crank or argue against it, perhaps to shout in their face or even organize a group of people to drown them out, but not take away their right to speak.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[war4peace]

A better analogy is you being arrested and convicted for supporting illegal racing because your license plate reads "ND4SPD".

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

Within areas under its control, ISIL considers use of the acronym Daesh punishable by flogging[337] or cutting out the tongue.[338]

You're wrong.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

Not if I am using a pejorative name to reference them. If I name my SSID, "Lying Hillary" you think I support her? Weird.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[LordLucless]

My interpretation of this would be a criticism of the state's immigration/refugee policy. If "21" is his district's number, "Daesh 21" sounds like he thinks his district is turning into an outpost of Islamic State.

But, you know, far be it from the state to persecute people for disagreeing with them by abusing stupid laws.

Re: Daesh is depreciatory

[Type44Q]

The French are coming to your house right now; fortunately they're only armed with Brie and pÃté.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

Within areas under its control, ISIL considers use of the acronym Daesh punishable by flogging[337] or cutting out the tongue.[338]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant#Name

Re: Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

So if it's called Screamimg Kids 21 -- what does that imply? With that logic since it contains no very or adjective of like or dislike... maybe it's a reminder they are everywhere? Maybe it's a good thing? Who knows. But it seems like sensorship. I would not dare to try it on my wifi. I wouldn't want people to think I support them or am one. Hmmmmm. Maybe I answered my own question.

Re: Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, it could be a fuck you to Daesh? Lol. This post is going to certainly set off the CIA keyword monitors like crazy!!!! Perhaps posting is not so smart?

Re: Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm wondering how to capitalize on the xfiniti wifi network!

Re: Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

He should be careful with the French and inspect his car bottom as well as his basement for explosives. They may try to sink his car or a house using mines for the fun of it.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

With the notable problem that Daesh is a name that ISIS hates...ISIS has offered to kill people that refer to them as Daesh.

It would be much more akin to naming a WAP Kraut during WW2. So do I support Nazism if I do?

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[lgw]

Well, they did determine his intent, it seems, and that's why they let him off with a suspended sentence. Had he named his network "FuckISIS" or something that made his intent clear, I really doubt he would have been arrested. Don't count on people to be rational when there are recent casualties - again, that's just a bad life strategy.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[lgw]

If you had that license plate, you can bet you'd start getting far more tickets. Another bad life strategy.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[lgw]

The right to question your own people/nations motives and the justification or lack there of for a war is crucial part of democracy.

Find a way to do that without looking like you're supporting the enemy in an ongoing war. The terrorism thing can get a bit muddy, but ISIS in particular is killing people in France in particular, no ambiguity there, and you don't go around supporting the other side after the shooting starts.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[skr95062]

Next time you're caught speeding, try telling the cop, "I didn't intend to speed" and see where it gets you.

I did. After the officer stopped laughing he gave me a ticket anyway and said "Nice try Hillary"

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[quax]

Exactly. This is stupid on so many levels, it boggles the mind.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[quax]

So if I call my WiFi access point "Drumpf", will you mistake me for a Trump fan?

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Hylandr]

I think in this context since it's well known they hate the name it's plausible they prosecuted them for the 'provoke an attack' portion of the law.

It's still BS though. It just proves that France has caved completely. Though I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

Pretty sure naming your Wifi hotspot 'Viva La Sharia Law' would be perfectly legal.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[DarkOx]

There is a difference between lending material support and holding / advocating the opinion that the other side should win. Is supporting the enemy of ones own nation adopted or otherwise disgraceful? I would I think agree with you that it is. I would have some pretty choice words for anyone suggesting there is one iota of goodness in ISIS and what they stand for, but I would not seek jail them.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Cow Ward]

Unreliable sources.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly, they are not acting rationally, they are responding based solely on fear and misunderstanding. They have already surrendered, and the terrorists have already won.

Just like here in the US.

Re: Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

>pÃté.

Hey, now. It's not nice to call people names in Klingon, even if they are French...

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Sulik]

+1 if I had mod points

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

A better analogy is you being arrested and convicted for supporting illegal racing because your license plate reads "ND4SPD".

If you had that license plate, you can bet you'd start getting far more tickets. Another bad life strategy.

It depends: in Belgium the speed control's automated licence plate readers can only read the plates which follow the standard formats, plates with fancy text are off the hook (until the software is being updated, the problem seems to be that the software would then also give false positives by reading bumper stickers).

Re: Daesh is depreciatory

[Ol Olsoc]

The French are coming to your house right now; fortunately they're only armed with Brie and pÃté.

What - no wine or crusty bread? Damn.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

One of my neighbors named his SSID "spamvirus", does he like spam and viruses? Or is he trying in an old-man way to get people to avoid it?

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

Because you think cops are naive and have no sense of humor? People who have seen the worst side of humanity don't tend to give a shit about harmless stuff.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

Please try to substantiate the outrageous claim that "Giving moral support to the enemy is on par with helping them get weapons." (Hint: on par means 'equal', so apparently telling a criminal 'they look good today' is as harmful as handing them a loaded pistol.) Please explain how "giving moral support" is an all or nothing state. Please explain how, if I named my cat Hitler, that would make me a Nazi. If, in your hypothetical world, naming a private wi-fi network after a terrorist group is giving moral support, please explain how the entirely of the news media aren't giving even greater moral support by mentioning them constantly, calling them a "State" and thereby giving them legitimacy as more than just a group of regional hoodlums.

Re: Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

"Dawla al islamia (fi 3raq wa as shams)", IITransliteratedC.

Re: Daesh is depreciatory

[nehumanuscrede]

hahaha

Imagine the sentence if he had used " FuckFrance " instead.

They probably would have brought back the guillotine.

I laugh but certain phrases and words here in the US of A would probably be met with the same treatment.

What a time to be alive :| :facepalm:

Re: Daesh is depreciatory

[Type44Q]

What do you think they're coming for?!

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[rtb61]

Now from the geek side, who could have named his wireless network what ever the fuck he wanted to, including cock sucker mother fucking cunt, all he had to do was turn of SSID broadcasting. Gees, if you can not remember the name of your own wireless network, you should not be allowed to set one up. People turn off network ID broadcast and that should be the default (that broadcasting of the name will always be legally problematic). That's right all of you, that haven't done so, log into your firewall router wireless modem, get into configuration settings and hide SSID and one other I just checked on, turn on client isolation (isolates wireless from wired)

Re: Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

But saying you support 'Daesh' is like saying you support the 'New York Wankees'.

Re: Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

Daesh terrorism bomb ISIS death to infidels destroy america allahu akbar

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[haruchai]

"One of my neighbors has his WiFi access point named after the local pro football team. I think a reasonable person would conclude he's a fan of that team. Same thing here."

No one who supports those murdering towelheads calls them Daesh and they've threatened to cut out the tongues of everyone they can get their hands on that calls them by that acronym

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

There is serious doubt towards France's concept of liberty and freedom of expression since the whole Dieudonné's sensorship (an very non-PC humorist with a caustic sense of humor who was joking on every kind of people, on every single ethnic group, ... until he said something about another one).

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

All your devices will be calling out to see if your hidden ssid network is nearby all the time calling it by name so people can figure out where you live by what AP's your phone is looking for the next time you go to burger king

http://www.howtogeek.com/howto...

"When you hide your wireless SSID on the router side of things, what actually happens behind the scenes is that your laptop or mobile device is going to start pinging over the air to try and find your routerâ"no matter where you are. So youâ(TM)re sitting there at the neighborhood coffee shop, and your laptop or iPhone is telling anybody with a network scanner that youâ(TM)ve got a hidden network at your house or job."

And the other thing so basically that would keep me from using my home media server on any of my WiFi connected tablets and laptops right or print I've had a wifi connected wireless printer for several years now.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[phayes]

France also has laws on the books condemning those who deny the Holocaust. Are you taking a stand against those too?

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[arth1]

Because you think cops are naive and have no sense of humor?

It's safer to assume that.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

I think a reasonable person would conclude he's a fan of that team.

think and reasonable do not mean what you believe. Thanks for lowering the standard.
Don't take that the wrong way. I hope that if you have offspring, that one day their offspring are born with thumbs.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

If you had that license plate, you can bet you'd start getting far more tickets. Another bad life strategy.

Slippery slope? Using corner-cases of stupid to justify a lifetime of stupid, is... stupid - don't you think?

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[arglebargle_xiv]

When a group (nation or otherwise) makes a habit of killing people in your country, showing support for them is a bad life strategy.

One small problem with your fine theory: The name "daesh" is regarded as an insult by ISIS. So the WiFi network name didn't support them, it insulted them. Sort of like someone naming their WiFi "Hillary2016" and being branded a Trump supporter.

Re: Daesh is depreciatory

[arglebargle_xiv]

The French are coming to your house right now; fortunately they're only armed with Brie and pÃftÃf©.

Unless they're visiting a German house, in which case it's traditional for them to be armed with a white flag.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[lgw]

There is a difference between lending material support and holding / advocating the opinion that the other side should win.

Not according to centuries of military theory, there isn't. Man, material, morale - these are the components of an army.

When A and B are in a war, you can fight for A by shooting at B, sure, but also by making stuff for A or sabotaging the industry of B, or by boosting the morale of A or dragging down the morale of B. 20th century history showed that attacking industry is actually less important than attacking morale, BTW.

I would have some pretty choice words for anyone suggesting there is one iota of goodness in ISIS and what they stand for, but I would not seek jail them.

If the casualties were more widespread, jail would be the least of his worries. Judge Lynch is notoriously inconsiderate of intention and misunderstood details.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Mashiki]

A couple of my friends use "CSIS Interception Point #xxx" we don't have the FBI in the country, I chuckle when I do see "fbi surveillance van" in Canada though.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Zontar The Mindless]

Several residents in Mosul, Iraq's second-largest city which fell to the extremist group in June [2014], told The Associated Press that the militants threatened to cut the tongue of anyone who publicly used the acronym Daesh, instead of referring to the group by its full name, saying it shows defiance and disrespect. The residents spoke anonymously out of fear for their safety.

I'm gonna go with the AP until you come up with actual documentation to support your claim.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

mark the NAME and the PLACE where a POS was held, in a public way, for people to remember, and never forget a POS's NAME.

POS = piece of shit? point-of-sale? either way: huh?

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

"One of my neighbors has his WiFi access point named after the local pro football team. I think a reasonable person would conclude he's a fan of that team. Same thing here."

There is a guy down the street from me who named his WiFI access point "FBI Surveillance Van."

The fuck is your point again?

Re: Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

you misspelled potato

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

The USA has very strict limitations on what it defines as treason. But the definition does say "providing aid and comfort" to the Enemy. I think that moral support fits that definition.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

"Daesh" is an insult. To call this "praise" takes a great leap of imagination.

Re: Daesh is depreciatory

[allo]

Nobody expects the french inquisition.

Re: Daesh is depreciatory

[ememisya]

I'm not sure who is dumber here, French laws or the Frenchman? So they managed to prove an 18 year old was "praising" fear spread in the name of political influence (very objective concepts mind you) by setting his SSID to Daesh Network for all those who see it in the Wifi range. Maybe I'm reading the article wrong.

Re: Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

I dare you to rename it "KKK recruiting station 23". You say you won't? Why? You say it's because your neighbors will think you support the KKK? Bingo! Now you should understand.

Re: Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

I dare you to rename it "KKK recruiting station 13". You won't of course because your neighbors will think you support the KKK. Now you should understand why the French are sensitive to any name associated with ISIS.

Re: Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

My ssid is Adolf, because my beloved dog was named this way (and Adolf is a pretty common name in my country), would you think that I'm a nazi?

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Cow Ward]

Here you go.

Re: Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

The difference is, all of you people on this thread are funny. Terrorism is not. Hence why you still get to type funny things on your keyboard thingy and the person in the article does not.

Re: Daesh is depreciatory

[doccus]

"May I call you Ludo, Ludo? There's good in everyone, Ludo...even the French"
Hard to believe that 30 years ago this line was not only NOT censored by the BBC, but even was also one of France's most popular series. The Iron lady said it was her favorite series.
Now? It would be "fomenting hate" This fu%^$g xenophobia and "political correctness" has got to stop. If someone from another culture does something wrong or illegal, we;ve got to be able to call them out on it, without being scared of stepping on their tender tootsies...

Re: Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

I am. Truth doesn't need any law.

Re: Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

My ssid is "I've seen you naked", does that imply that I'm some sort of peeping Tom?

Christ. Nobody has a fucking sense of humor anymore.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

When You turn off SSID broadcast, the client stations are the ones seeking specific SSID even when hat WiFi is not available. Will You like your phone and laptop constantly broadcasting attempts to connect Daesh21 everywhere they are turned on with WiFi enabled? It is better to leave SSID broadcast on and disable connecting to non-available networks on client stations.

My WiFi SSID for last 3 years are Al-Qaeda_Orgasm-Confidential
I named it after eFukt video and beheading videos.

Re: Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Coward]

Point made very well: someone mod parent up plz!

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Zontar The Mindless]

I hope you realise that completely fails to contradict the account related by the Associated Press.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[Anonymous Cow Ward]

It indicates they don't actually consider it bad, at least any more. An anonymous report from more than two years ago versus an expert? Hmm, I wonder which is more likely to be right.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[DarkOx]

Yes I would. If someone wants spout nonsense they should be allowed to spout nonsense. Its incumbent on the rest of us to act like responsible thinking people and ignore their obviously counter factual nonsense.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[phayes]

The U.S. != the world.

You feel it's nonsense. We define it as hate speech.

If you feel so strongly about how the U.S. interpretation of what should be free to say is the only justifiable one you're welcome to come to France and make inflammatory statements that are against our laws. Because you see, you don't make our laws and your opinion matters not. You'll still be going to jail.

Re:Daesh is depreciatory

[KingBenny]

because this is europe and the free world lol ... i wonder why no one ever believes me when i said that all i ever feared was to be stuck in belgium after i turn 40 and by now europe isnt far enough away from here. The continent is crumbling, they stop at nothing to get money for the champagne parties at the pigfarm. In belgium electricty is since a bit taxed as if its a luxury product.
squeeze harder guys, there might be a drop left
its the proverbial old man in suit holding on the past so hard that it chokes the future
i wont discriminate, it could be a woman as well

The terrorists have won

[NewtonsLaw]

When your own government acts like terrorists -- you know the terrorists have won.

The terrorists have very effectively smashed the US Constitution and removed a huge swathe of "freedoms" that were previously enjoyed by Western nations. They did not do this alone -- the governments of those nations were complicit with the terrorists' objectives by bending to the pressure.

As Midnight OIl said: I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees. Sadly, Western governments have opted to strip their peoples of the freedoms they're (allegedly) trying to protect, in promise of security.

Benajin Franklin quote goes here [....]

Re:The terrorists have won

[eepok]

Riiight. And that's evident how? Tell me how your life exhibits the Constitution having been smashed. Which freedoms did you have, but do not have today? Ya, Western governments are over-stepping bounds, but I'm fairly certain you weren't shot for typing your response. Nor will you be prosecuted. Nor will anyone else give much of a damn. Your freedoms are 99.999% intact and the police will still come to protect them when you call and the legal system will continue to prosecute and defend the accused. But if living in a dystopic fantasy land is your thing, then you do you.

Re:The terrorists have won

[Anonymous Coward]

The Constitution protects more than life, and many of us value freedoms that are not strictly necessary for living better than a slave. I used to have privacy when I made a phone call. I used to be able to fly without being groped. My threshold for "smashed" is apparently a lot higher than yours.

Re: The terrorists have won

[Anonymous Coward]

As Midnight OIl said: I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees.

That's exactly what the terrorists are saying! Sacre bleu, I'm calling the gendarmes!

Re:The terrorists have won

[bondsbw]

Western governments are over-stepping bounds, but I'm fairly certain you weren't shot for typing your response. Nor will you be prosecuted.

The government prosecuting speech of an individual is precisely the point of this whole post.

Re:The terrorists have won

[bigbang137]

How dumb do you have to be to ask this question? It was just a few weeks ago that the FBI forced all people in a building to unlock their iphones if they had a fingerprint unlock. People get subject to ridiculous security theater and their skin to radiation-intensive scanning in airports everyday. When they google pressure cooker, they get a visit from the bureau. What else do you want?

Re: The terrorists have won

[johnsmithperson123]

In today's world, you don't have much of any privacy on the internet even disregarding state agencies. Now, as for flight security, it has more to do with the idiocy and paranoia of the TSA than anything else.

Re:The terrorists have won

[Anonymous Coward]

How does a French law apply to the US Constitution? Was the Louisiana Purchase sold back with interest?

Re:The terrorists have won

[by (1706743)]

While I agree with your general sentiment, I think there are some subtleties to this, somewhat analogous to the "fire in a crowded theater" sort of thing.

For instance, at least in the US, one doesn't (AFAIK...) have the "right" to call in a bomb threat. This is, if you like, removing some freedom of speech -- but I think it's entirely justifiable. So, what if someone names their SSID, "I_put_a_bomb_in_PS118" -- should we allow that? What about, "I will kill your family, $NameOfNeighbor"?

And regarding the Franklin quote, I believe the passage is

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

(my emphasis) Freedom of speech is, in my mind, essential; but one has to balance the "freedom to cause legitimate concern for personal safety" on the one hand, and the "freedom to feel safe using common-sense metrics" on the other. (Whether or not this particular case falls under those categories is debatable, of course.)

That said, in this particular instance, I agree that it's a bit over-the-top, but I could imagine a similar, more malicious situation where this sort of action makes some amount of sense. In such cases, a catch-all "the government said I couldn't do this there goes all my freedoms" attitude can lack some of the necessary subtleties, at least in my opinion.

Re:The terrorists have won

[mlw4428]

The concept that you ever really had privacy when making a phone call is laughable. You have privacy only if that call is properly encrypted by both parties. As for "groped", I haven't been patted down for quite a while. Yes a wave of a metal detector and going through a scanner. But then again if I told the Founding Fathers that one day there would exist massive vehicles that can fly 100s of times faster than the fastest horse of their day with the capability of destroying a city block - they'd probably agree that SOME level of protection was necessary.

I mean I'm not allowed to walk into a nuclear power plant and never would have been allowed. Is my freedom smashed? The fact that remains that a massive chunk of your own personal freedoms still exist. You can still criticize the government. That's a huge step up from places whose freedom is truly "smashed".

Re: The terrorists have won

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't the TSA part of the government ?

Re: The terrorists have won

[Anonymous Coward]

The agency is, but many of the people doing the footwork are private contractors.

Re:The terrorists have won

[Anonymous Coward]

Holy shit! You are dumb. Not even in the US.

Re:The terrorists have won

[fred6666]

Which part of the US constitution was smashed so that it no longer applies to France?

Re:The terrorists have won

[lgw]

Even in the US, free speech does not extend to giving aid and comfort to the enemy. And, yes, showing public support for the enemy counts. I do think a suspended sentence was appropriate here, of course, since he probably had no ill intent.

Showing public support for a group that makes a habit of killing people in your country is just a bad life strategy.

Re:The terrorists have won

[Lumpy]

They did not do it, the panicky idiot republicans and democrats that have been waiting for a reason to gut the constitution and it's pesky rights did it.

The fuckers in Washington have been WAITING to fuck up the constitution for decades. The terrorists are not at fault, it's the shitbag leaders we have empowered by panicky idiot citizens.

Re: The terrorists have won

[Anonymous Coward]

This is such SJW BS. May just be me, but I've been an adult well before 9-11, and I have yet to find my freedom abridged. Specially with tsa-pre, global entry (USA) and registered traveler (UK), my life is fine.

Granted, I'm a white male, but I'm still not seeing the tyranny of Western governments affecting me at ALL.

Re:The terrorists have won

[nitehawk214]

"If you don't like the government abuse of free speech, just shut up."

Awesome advice there, jackass.

Re:The terrorists have won

[Anonymous Coward]

First they came for the terrorists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a terrorist. Then they came for me, and there were no terrorists left to... hey, wait a minute.

Re: The terrorists have won

[Archangel Michael]

I guess it would be better if the Nazi's contracted out their dirty work at Auschwitz. Then they could have been excused by people like yourself. (yes, I Godwined the thread).

"The Nazis didn't kill the Jews, the private contractors did"

Re:The terrorists have won

[drinkypoo]

Which freedoms did you have, but do not have today?

The freedom to travel [by air] without having one's nutsack groped.

Re:The terrorists have won

[ChrisMaple]

Which freedoms did you have, but do not have today?

Why don't you ask Susette Kelo?

Re:The terrorists have won

[Anonymous Coward]

He would be protected in the USA because of his Bill of Rights...

source: I'm American

Re: The terrorists have won

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure, as long as your papers are in order, your life is fine.

Irony is lost on the clueless.

Re:The terrorists have won

[tsqr]

Western governments are over-stepping bounds, but I'm fairly certain you weren't shot for typing your response. Nor will you be prosecuted.

The government prosecuting speech of an individual is precisely the point of this whole post.

Free speech is not unlimited. There are quite a number of restrictions on speech (e.g., encitement, slander and libel, child porn, fighting words, false advertising. Of course, that's in the USA, and TFA is about France.

Re:The terrorists have won

[quax]

They may me riding to their ultimate triumph come Tuesday.

Re:The terrorists have won

[quax]

You really didn't pay attention to this whole Snowden thing, did you?

Re:The terrorists have won

[quax]

Even in the US, free speech does not extend to giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

How exactly is insulting the enemy, giving aid and comfort?

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/why-i...

Re: The terrorists have won

[zlives]

fucking Haliburton

Re:The terrorists have won

[zlives]

you missed out on the "practically terrorism" bit in your outrage,
don't feed the troll

Re:The terrorists have won

[zlives]

personally i like the "all Mexicans are rapists" SSID
or my guest network SSID "Grab the Pussy"

subtle enough?!!

Re:The terrorists have won

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm. Let's see 'freedom of association' (the police regularly using face recognition and plate recognition to 'track' individuals of a group and using that information to harass and imprison said individuals). Freedom of speech, the instant case is a perfect example. Freedom from 'unwarranted search and seizure' (warrant less wire-taps of every shape & kind). The freedom to be secure in my 'persons and effects' (apparently my computer & data on it aren't REALLY 'affects'...seriously? and can be seized without a warrant), seizing of my cell-phone, computers, devices without a warrant and without compensation, and that's not even the worst, seizing money and property without warrant (e.g. 'asset forfeiture'...look it up). The freedom to not 'self-incriminate', e.g. the warrant that was issued forcing all people in a building (I think it was a bank) to use their thumb-print to unlock their phones.

The fact you actually believe your freedoms are '99.999% intact' demonstrates you are part of the problem not the solution, besides which freedoms are NON NEGOTIABLE. They need to remain 100% 'intact' not close to 100%, 100% end of story since people like you will soon change to 'your freedoms are 99.99% intact' than 'your freedoms are 99.9% intact', 'your freedoms are 99% intact' etc. slowly allowing your freedoms to erode just so you THINK you can live safely for just 1 more day.

That is not to say I think we're like Turkey or China for instance but again freedoms are 'non-negotiable', you don't have to live in the worst offending country to believe your freedoms have been eroded, and you don't even have to be the one whose freedoms have been directed impacted YET (e.g. the guy being 'shot' for his response) to want to protect the freedoms we all expect to enjoy.

Re: The terrorists have won

[Anonymous Coward]

Ding Ding Ding. We have a winner!

Re:The terrorists have won

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, considering how the whole US constitution was basically plagiarised from John Locke and the French, pretty much all of it ?

Re:The terrorists have won

[Pluvius]

"Aid and comfort" is a fairly well-defined legal term, and simply praising a terrorist group or act would not meet the necessary criteria for it beyond a reasonable doubt. And this specific case where someone just named something after a terrorist group would be laughed out of court here.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/7...

Rob

Re:The terrorists have won

[Bender0x7D1]

Except, at one point in time, saying "Black people and white people should have the right to marry each other." could incite violence. People could, and did, get hurt for saying those things; so should we have shut those speeches, rallies, protests, and marches down because someone could get hurt?

The hard part about freedom is fighting for the other person's right to say things that you think are sick and twisted. No one fights because they think $DEITY is with the other side - everyone thinks they are "in the right". The Constitution has freedom of speech FIRST for a reason.

Of course, if anything goes beyond "speech" - violence, oppression, etc. then it is time to drop the hammer. However, if it remains speech, then it should be protected.

P.S. - It is legal to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater. It is the desire to incite violence or mayhem that makes it illegal. (Ex: There could be a real fire.)

Re:The terrorists have won

[phayes]

The U.S Constitution is not germane to a discussion on French laws.

Re:The terrorists have won

[Anonymous Coward]

Tell me how your life exhibits the Constitution having been smashed.

Actually the US constitution is gently squeezed while principles above it are lovingly sucked into a sweet oblivion.

Re:The terrorists have won

[Anonymous Coward]

>

The terrorists have very effectively smashed the US Constitution and removed a huge swathe of "freedoms" that were previously enjoyed by Western nations. They did not do this alone -- the governments of those nations were complicit with the terrorists' objectives by bending to the pressure.

Contrary to what some may believe, not everything is about the USA. Europe is a little different and there isn't free speech as you guys may know it. Some of it good and some of it not so good. For example if you spread lies about someone, in a court of law you would have to prove the truth of those lies that are otherwise assumed to be untrue. No doubt you could equally be arrested for praising Hitler in Germany, probably even if it was a wifi router name. I'm not saying it's right, but certainly people in France are rather sensitive about terrorism right now, angry and probably looking for outlets or people to blame.

The court apparently overlooked something...

[orospakr]

"Daesh" is a pejorative term for ISIS. Referring to it by that name is hardly "praise".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Re:The court apparently overlooked something...

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, does context mean nothing to the french legal system? Calling your network Daesh is the exact OPPOSITE of praising the group. Why u do dis France?

Re:The court apparently overlooked something...

[Anonymous Coward]

They're just mad that everyone keeps abbreviating it. Their full name is Rainbow Daesh.

Europe's tenuous relationship with liberty...

[chaboud]

It's sad to see continual erosion of civil liberties in Europe. Whether Germany with removal of Nazi affiliation or France with biased enforcement of "religious" symbols, it's been the classic example of a slippery slope, and it's mass democracy at its worst.

Re:Europe's tenuous relationship with liberty...

[Anonymous Coward]

i don't know why LIBERALS like you think terrorists or terrorist sympathizers are deserving of any kinds of civil liberties
the reason europe is a shithole is because of LEFTISTS like you who enable them
luckily my country won't be going down that path when Trump becomes president

Re:Europe's tenuous relationship with liberty...

[Anonymous Coward]

Any and every feminist CUNTtry is a shithole.

No child brides, why should any man do anything?
(Deuteronomy 22, 28-29, hebrew allows man+girl, including in cases of rape. Man is ba'al: master, of the woman.)

freedom of speech

[Anonymous Coward]

They (use to) have that in France. He can appeal.

Will they also prosecute 100 fathers every year ?

[Anonymous Coward]

For naming their daughter Isis ?

Good

[110010001000]

If you want to practice Islam, move to an Islamic country. There are plenty of them. Enjoy.

Re:Dont fool yourselfs

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

Yep, and it's not new either: for decades, France has had laws curtailing free speech when it comes to the jews. For example, if you say "jews smell of elderberries" publicly, you can be prosecuted and end up in the slammer.

Me, I have nothing against jews. But I find it outrageous - not to mention counterproductive - that you can't say anything remotely critical of them. At least in the US, where any old antisemite can say whatever the hell they want in public provided they don't call for violence, and often do so vocally, their very act of exercising their right makes them look like massive idiots who get to be kept under surveillance. In France, they stay under the radar and make converts. But hang around long enough in any bar in France and you'll quickly realize many, many of them are jew haters.

Why didn't they....

[Anonymous Coward]

just deport his muslim ass?

Re: Why didn't they....

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes. And the rest of him too, in discrete packets.

Sentencing Refused

[entropy01]

"He was first sentenced to 100 hours of community service, which he refused..." How does that work?
Judge: I sentence you to community service.
Defendant: No thanks.
Judge: Is a suspended sentence OK?
Defendant: Meh,.. I guess.

be more precise

[Anonymous Coward]

That wiki is mega long. You want us to read it ? It isnt pejorstive per see as it is either is acronym or a shortening. And some (stupid) french youth have been using it as oraise form. That said either the court over reacted or , as usual, the aritcle is omiting some serious side which led to the judgment. Would not be the first time.

Re:be more precise

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, it is a long page. Which is why he helpfully linked to the relevant, 3-paragraph part of the page that deals with the name. To save you the difficult task of sorting through those 3 whole paragraphs, it's the 2nd paragraph that is most relevant. To save you even that effort, here's the most relevant indication of what ISIL/ISIS thinks about the name "Daesh":

"Within areas under its control, ISIL considers use of the acronym Daesh punishable by flogging[337] or cutting out the tongue.[338]"

Reading is hard.

Re:be more precise

[Anonymous Coward]

That wiki is mega long. You want us to read it ? It isnt pejorstive per see as it is either is acronym or a shortening. And some (stupid) french youth have been using it as oraise form. That said either the court over reacted or , as usual, the aritcle is omiting some serious side which led to the judgment. Would not be the first time.

ISIS has sworn to murder anyone who uses the word "Daesh".

Re:Dont fool yourselfs

[Anonymous Coward]

If you think saying something like that is criticism then you don't know what criticism is. I don't disagree with you but don't fool yourself; that's racism, not criticism.

H. L. Mencken

[Anonymous Coward]

"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all."
-- H. L. Mencken

Re:H. L. Mencken

[Anonymous Coward]

Mencken didn't live with multiculturalism. He spoke of defending white scoundrels. Open borders wackos don't leave us any room for such indulgences. This is war.

Re:H. L. Mencken

[Zontar The Mindless]

I don't see the word "white" anywhere in the quote.

This will become the norm in the US...

[Anonymous Coward]

This will become the norm in the US if Trump is elected!

SSIDs are great anonymous billboards

[swb]

When I setup my sister in law's access point in a small apartment building and I was explaining why she should use a password, we ended up naming her SSID "Fuck off, freeloaders".

I named mine "Shocking Porn", which was all well and good until I ended up with my wife and six other women seated around the dining room table planning an event for the elementary school and one of them wanted wifi....

Re:SSIDs are great anonymous billboards

[pz]

I've seen SSIDs that were designed to repel freeloaders through an emotional response. My favorite was "Boston Police". Maybe it was the police, maybe not. Are YOU going to risk running a torrent through that AP?

Re:SSIDs are great anonymous billboards

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe it's time to rename mine. Bathroom-cam-2.
Oh crap, I just remembered a woman and two kids moved in next door recently, yup definitely time to rename.

Re:SSIDs are great anonymous billboards

[Anonymous Coward]

Mine says "Shady_Connections", always has. Truth in advertising.

Re:SSIDs are great anonymous billboards

[ChunderDownunder]

Yeah like people wearing those Female Body Inspector t-shirts, I mean how would you know they're not undercover federal agents hiding in plain sight?

Re:SSIDs are great anonymous billboards

[Anonymous Coward]

Mwahahahahhahahahaaaa........

Ahhhh...no dinner for you ! Bad dog..bad !

Re:SSIDs are great anonymous billboards

[Anonymous Coward]

You should try "$3.50 per gigabyte"

Re:SSIDs are great anonymous billboards

[Anonymous Coward]

There was a small private school set up next to my house in a former large residence with accompanying spacious grounds. There are numerous things that start to irritate me (and a few other adjacent neighbors) about the setup. I am considering renaming my AP to something like "kiddieporn". Other creative suggestions are welcome.

France is very far from the US.

[Anonymous Coward]

People assume that, because of France's exported image of liberty/equality/fraternity, it must be a bastion of freedom. It isn't. It's one of the most restrictive states in the Western world. Remember this is the country where women were recently fined for not exposing enough of their skin on beaches, because it's "un-French" to cover up.

If you wonder why there are so many acts of terrorism in France, it's because - unlike most of the West, which just leaves peaceful Muslims alone to do whatever - there is an on-going internal cultural war between things that are considered French and non-French, and that war isn't just of words but enforced by laws. For example, everyone marched under the ostensible freedom-of-speech banner of je suis Charlie, but this is the same publication that was being regularly attacked in the courts by the government when poked fun at some aspect of Judaism.

tl;dr do NOT trust France. They do not bring the same values to the table as the US, the UK, Ireland, post-Franco Spain, the Low Countries, Scandinavia, Finland, or even post-Nazi Germany. They have been the model so far of severe, irrelevant restrictions of rights with the excuse of "terror!" - nothing like the US, which while imposing temporary bullshit that undoubtedly curb the principles enshrined in the Constitution, still has a massive public voice in opposition, and has not crept in scope anywhere like in France. The best thing we can do is NOT follow them.

Re:France is very far from the US.

[unixisc]

If you wonder why there are so many acts of terrorism in France, it's because - unlike most of the West, which just leaves peaceful Muslims alone to do whatever - there is an on-going internal cultural war between things that are considered French and non-French, and that war isn't just of words but enforced by laws. For example, everyone marched under the ostensible freedom-of-speech banner of je suis Charlie, but this is the same publication that was being regularly attacked in the courts by the government when poked fun at some aspect of Judaism.

tl;dr do NOT trust France. They do not bring the same values to the table as the US, the UK, Ireland, post-Franco Spain, the Low Countries, Scandinavia, Finland, or even post-Nazi Germany. They have been the model so far of severe, irrelevant restrictions of rights with the excuse of "terror!" - nothing like the US, which while imposing temporary bullshit that undoubtedly curb the principles enshrined in the Constitution, still has a massive public voice in opposition, and has not crept in scope anywhere like in France. The best thing we can do is NOT follow them.

While there may be problems w/ France, whenever I read about terror attacks anywhere in the world, I don't wonder what the recipient did wrong. I assume - and am frequently proven right - that it's Muslims being Islamic. Nothing more, nothing less.

Take the Charlie Hebdo paper, for instance. Yeah, they did cartoons mocking Jews, but Jews did not take it up to themselves to shoot up the place. A lot of people and media outlets, particularly in Europe and particularly of the Left, are downright obnoxious, but none of the targets of their attacks take it upon themselves to resort to violence. Even in the US, you have media outlets regularly attack all sorts of groups, barring one. Muslims. B'cos they know that they'll be attacked for being 'racist' by terror groups like CAIR on one end, as well as get targeted by Muslim vigilantes on the other.

If you think France is an exception, look at Denmark. You had those Danish cartoons, followed by not just protests and boycotts of Danish products (perfectly legitimate) but also death threats. And you've had terror attacks in the UK, Germany and other places. Normally, I'm against any government ordering its citizens to undress, but the presence of burqinis or burqhas in beaches is definitely intimidating, given how jihadist terror can occur anywhere

Also, on the issue of what is French and non-French, that's a perfectly valid 'cultural war' to have. First of all, not all countries are 'international' countries, and any nation is at liberty to define itself not just by borders, but also by language and culture. France was at one time a Catholic country that has morphed into a secular one, but it is still well within its rights to impose curbs on people wanting to be a part of it. While religious freedom is there, it's perfectly legitimate for them to tell Muslims, 'If you are going to have 4 wives, you're not welcome here. If you are going to honor kill your daughter for wanting to marry a French non-Muslim, we will toss you in jail. If you are going to spraypaint graffiti on synagoges, you are going away. If you behead a priest at an alter, we will kill you.'

So yeah, France is not a country I admire, but on this issue, they have it dead right. They need to make it tough for Muslims to practice Shariah law within their countries. Those who want to do that can be deported back to Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco or whichever country they came from. Or give them a one way ticket to Raqqa to join ISIS, and see to it that they can never enter Europe again

Re:France is very far from the US.

[Anonymous Coward]

Are criminal sanctions for mocking Jews not violence? Or is it not violence when the state does it?

Are criminal sanctions for refusing to expose your body on the beach if you're a woman violence? Or is it not violence when the state does it?

You're using the most extreme examples of violence are utterly deplorable but have only affected a few dozen people of the 65 million people living in France. I'm referring to violence against whole populations.

You can argue until you're blue in the face about whether kill-you-dead-now violence is worse than lock-you-up-until-you-comply violence, but either way you're left not being able to live your life freely.

As to "whichever country they came from", the answer is usually "a country that Fance occupied". If you don't want violence, start off by not committing violence.

Re:France is very far from the US.

[hackertourist]

France is a target because it's a former colonial power. It hosts many immigrants from those former colonies (Islamic countries). Many of those immigrants haven't integrated well, continue to live in poverty, have trouble finding jobs etc.
IOW, the issue is more complex than you assume.

Re:France is very far from the US.

[Anonymous Coward]

While there may be problems w/ France, whenever I read about terror attacks anywhere in the world, I don't wonder what the recipient did wrong. I assume - and am frequently proven right - that it's Muslims being Islamic. Nothing more, nothing less.

Just a quick question, when you hear of the crap that the Westboro Baptist Church does, do you think that's "Americans being Christian"?
It does nobody any good to pigeonhole massive groups of (largely) disparate people because of the actions of a small minority of one subset of that group.

Re:France is very far from the US.

[unixisc]

If the Westborough Chuch wasn't widely condemned and disowned not only by Liberal, but also Conservative religious organizations, I would indeed conclude that they are real Christians. The equivalent in the Middle East - while there are many Islamic groups that condemn ISIS, none of them are very different themselves, except in degree. Whereas not only does the Westborough Church get condemned - the churches who condemn them don't behave anything like them

Re:France is very far from the US.

[unixisc]

Also, while the groups may be 'disparate', the religious bigotry that is aggressively preached by Islam is something that's common to all the countries and present in all Muslim countries - Indonesia, Bangladesh, Malaysia, Uzbekistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Qatar, Bahrein, Egypt, Lebanon, Sudan, Libya, Tunisia, Alegeria, Morocco, Bosnia, Kosovo,...

Re:France is very far from the US.

[unixisc]

France left those countries decades ago. Why is it a right for any of their people to live in France, particularly if they are not interested in becoming French?

Re:France is very far from the US.

[hackertourist]

See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Re:France is very far from the US.

[GuB-42]

A lot of them came in just after WW2, providing the much needed workforce for rebuilding the country. Yeah, they kept their islamic culture but they did the job so they got the citizenship they deserved. You have to understand that they did France a great service.
Problem is : now there is nothing left to rebuild, so they lost many of the jobs they were for in the first place, which resulted in poverty, crime, etc...
What they didn't lose however is their ability to make children. Not only they tend to make more children due to their culture but they also took advantages of the government incentives. They are the reason why the birth rate in France is higher than in most western countries. And most of the "immigrants" that are so much criticized right now aren't. They are born in France, often from parents who are French citizens. France is their home country.

Europe is a feminist anti-liberty anti-man shithol

[Anonymous Coward]

Europe is a feminist anti-liberty anti-man shithole.

As is every western CUNTtry.

Europe should be violently overthrown by men.

he was offered a deal

[aepervius]

He refused the deal went before a tribunal and got a harsher sentence. That alone tells me there is a whole unsaid part, or the tribunal judge are idiot. I tend to think unsaid part, as very usually important details are left out. But hey it is the french, so let us bash happily, and show how unürejudicied we all are ....

Re:he was offered a deal

[Carewolf]

He refused the deal went before a tribunal and got a harsher sentence.

Actually he got a milder sentence for a law-abiding citizen. A suspended sentence is just a warning, unless you do it again.

Re:he was offered a deal

[arth1]

Actually he got a milder sentence for a law-abiding citizen. A suspended sentence is just a warning, unless you do it again.

No, a suspended sentence goes on your record until the suspension period is over, which is much longer than the community service. It also counts as a prison sentence, whether it has been served or not.
It can ruin a man's life for a long time.

Thankfully, France isn't the US, where pretty much every sentence is a life sentence as far as employment opportunities go. But still, very harsh.

no it is not

[aepervius]

It is an acronym, and it is near other word pronunciation, daes for example, that is why they dislike it. But it is not per see pejorative and some youth have been praising it and using it even tagging it on wall (see north banlieu la courneuve, saint denis, even heard a rap on it)..

Re:no it is not

[Anonymous Coward]

Within areas under its control, ISIL considers use of the acronym Daesh punishable by flogging[337] or cutting out the tongue.[338]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant#Name

As a joke not very funny, but...

[unfortunateson]

I like my guest network name:
DHS Monitoring Van

Mohammed Uses This Access Point

[Anonymous Coward]

Mohammed: Did you see Mohammed at the meeting today?
Mohammed: No, but his brother Mohammed showed up.
Mohammed: What did Mohammed talk about?
Mohammed: Mohammed introduced us to Mohammed who is also a mason!
Mohammed: A mason? No shit? How long has he been one?
Mohammed: About five years. He was referred to the local lodge by Mohammed.
Mohammed: Ah, yes, Mohammed. He has a shit ton of connections around town!
Mohammed: Yes, and our brothers, police be upon them, Mohammed and Mohammed from Egypt came, too.
Mohammed: I've been thinking of becoming a clown.
Mohammed: A clown, Mohammed, why?
Mohammed: So I can film myself being gay.
Mohammed: Oh, you.
Mohammed: So anyway, is Mohammed, Mohammed, and Mohammed coming to the next party?
Mohammed: Indeed. Mohammed was so funny last time.
Mohammed: Well it wouldn't be a party without Mohammed.
Mohammed: Yes, my friend. POLICE BE UPON THEM!

Bookmarked

[Anonymous Coward]

Bookmarked, so the next time someone goes on about France being the pinnacle of a liberal, forward-thinking society that America should aspire to, I can helpfully refer to this.

Ah yes... founding father Benajin Franklin

[Zontar_Thing_From_Ve]

Benajin Franklin quote goes here [....]

Yes, we need to remember those quotes by Benajin Franklin and those other famous founding fathers like
Tosam Jefferson
Groeg Washington
Alexnader Hamilton
Jasm Madison
Samle Adams
and others.

My SSID: NSA Field Office 117

[Anonymous Coward]

that should keep me nice and safe!

Oh France!

[jrq]

At least you have égalité and fraternité left.

Re:Oh France!

[jrq]

I mean, you have égalité and fraternité left

Re:Oh France!

[Anonymous Coward]

But apparently you don't have É or &eacute left. (That's É and é, respectively, for those that don't know.)

Slashdot can't Unicode.

Its real name is 'Islamic State'

[unixisc]

I looked it up. Daesh is abbreviated, but not the Arabic version of ISIS - GP is right. The group calls itself ad-Dawlah al-Islmiyah ( ), which one can easily guess translates to 'Islamic State'. Before 2014, when their ambitions were more local, they were called ad-Dawlah al-Islmiyah f 'l-Irq wa-sh-Shm ( ) - which translates into either Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, or Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant

I prefer just calling them 'Islamic State', given that various Islamic groups worldwide - from Philippines to Nigeria - have declared themselves their affiliates, and that it's now present in over 30 countries. People are welcome to claim that they are not Islamic, but that's something every Muslim group/sect says about others.

Re:Its real name is 'Islamic State'

[Archangel Michael]

When you have people who won't say "radical" anywhere near "Islam", but will use that term against other groups, you make a fair guess as to where their true allegiance is.

Re:Its real name is 'Islamic State'

[Anonymous Cow Ward]

Primary sources say otherwise; it is just an Arabic abbreviation of their name. It's not a pejorative.

Re:Its real name is 'Islamic State'

[unixisc]

Islam itself is not a moderate religion, so saying 'radical' Islam is redundant, as even a cursory reading of the Quran and Sunnah will reveal. It's like saying 'pregnancy-induced childbirth'

Re:Its real name is 'Islamic State'

[unixisc]

The claim is that Arabs don't abbreviate terms to coin such words. The Wiki article I cited pointed to the Syrian government as the one who coined it, and it got rapidly adapted by everybody

Re:Its real name is 'Islamic State'

[vux984]

Just like calling Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece & Spain the PIIGS to concisely call out the 5 weakest countries in the eurozone financial crisis. That's not perjorative either right? It's just a simple acronym. Nobody was offended by it right?

Oh wait..
"The term is widely considered derogatory .."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

But your right Daesh is just an arabic abbreviation; and nobody is offended by it...

"The term âoeDaeshâ is strategically a better choice because it is still accurate in that it spells out the acronym of the groupâ(TM)s full Arabic name, al-Dawla al-Islamiya fi al-Iraq wa al-Sham. Yet, at the same time, âoeDaeshâ can also be understood as a play on words â" and an insult. Depending on how it is conjugated in Arabic, it can mean anything from âoeto trample down and crushâ to âoea bigot who imposes his view on others.â Already, the group has reportedly threatened to cut out the tongues of anyone who uses the term."

https://blog.ap.org/announceme...

"Several residents in Mosul, Iraqâ(TM)s second-largest city which fell to the extremist group in June, told The Associated Press that the militants threatened to cut the tongue of anyone who publicly used the acronym Daesh, instead of referring to the group by its full name, saying it shows defiance and disrespect. The residents spoke anonymously out of fear for their safety."

Re:Its real name is 'Islamic State'

[tsqr]

Islam itself is not a moderate religion, so saying 'radical' Islam is redundant, as even a cursory reading of the Quran and Sunnah will reveal. It's like saying 'pregnancy-induced childbirth'

If a group of Christians started executing people for lighting unauthorized fires, wearing unkempt hair, eating pork, having sex with specific relatives, having gay sex, or committing blashphemy, they'd most likely be called "radical" and distinguished from run-of-the-mill or 'moderate' Christians, even though the Bible (in Leviticus) imposes the death penalty for all those things. As a matter of fact, most 'moderate' Christians would consider Fred Phelps and his little group of warm-hearted folks, radical.

Re:Its real name is 'Islamic State'

[Anonymous Coward]

RIGHT. If you read the bible you'd come away with the potential same conclusion about Christianity. And while I'm an Atheist and therefore think all religion is 'radical' by its relation to reality I'm willing to concede that the APPLICATION of a religion can be 'moderate' to 'extreme' or 'radical'. So there IS a difference and failing to clarify the difference simply lumps all of a group in to one bucket. I'm sure there are many millions of quite reasonable Muslims that practice their religion in a 'moderate' way such that they do not present any overt risk (other than spreading their perverted sense of reality like all religions). As such it is more than reasonable to use an adjective such as 'radical' to describe a particular smaller grouping of the whole.

Re: Its real name is 'Islamic State'

[Anonymous Coward]

We need to understand it's not black and white. Simple minds simply things and group them together. Because a simple mind cannot process complex ideas.

  If you take a look at those limbs in the United States they are just typical Americans. If you look at them and other first world countries they are just typical citizens that practice that religion. This is the most common type of Muslim.

If you take any religion in a bad part of the world in a war struck a part of the world -- they are extremists and radical list. No matter what religion they are they would probably be just as extreme and justice radical. This is a symptom of their environment. It is not the religion. How long ago were the crusades or any other well no one religious wars from many different religions ?

  There's even the new crazy group arising called the sovereign citizens and a lot of first world countries these people don't think that they need to obey the laws of the land which they reside. If they put a political twist on it or a cultural twist on it or a religious twist on it it could be just as bad.

  If you just take the 20 minutes to get some statistics of crime in the United States, why don't we see which religion is giving the most crime it's going to be the majority religion of course. It's going to be some sort of Christians. Not because they are Christian but because they are the majority this is just a simple statistics.

  Perhaps we need to call them United States Muslims and the UK Muslims and then if we want to identify extremist then we could call them Iraq muslims or the others. If you look at the map it's really just that side of the water only a handful of countries that contain of these crazy extreme list Muslims. The Muslims and the rest of the world or just regular people.

  If we called them Third World lose limbs that might be the best labeling because it's only in those Third World countries where these extremist exist like this.

Re: Its real name is 'Islamic State'

[Anonymous Coward]

Radical Islam are the peaceful ones.

Re:Its real name is 'Islamic State'

[RandomSurfer314]

I'd rather call them Daesh. By calling them "Islamic State" you're actually following their propaganda. They are neither a state nor are they islamic. They are savages.

Re:Its real name is 'Islamic State'

[Anonymous Cow Ward]

I didn't say anything about PIIGS or whether it's derogatory. Swing and a miss there, bud. And if you read my links, you'd see refutations of your other points.

Re:Its real name is 'Islamic State'

[Anonymous Coward]

Except that they wouldn't be Christians then. They'd be hard core Jewish Zealots. The New Testament says love thy neighbor and other assorted hippy shit.

Re:Its real name is 'Islamic State'

[vux984]

I didn't say anything about PIIGS or whether it's derogatory

You DID say:

"it is just an Arabic abbreviation of their name. It's not a pejorative."

That implied to me that you were arguing that things that are "just an abbreviation" are not pejorative. PIIGS is a counter example. Its fine if you agree, and didn't intend to make a statement about 'just an abbreviation' in general.

So we agree then that that things at are 'just abbreviations' can still be perjorative?

And that just leaves the very specific case of "Daesh", which you claimed wasn't perjorative. But that doesn't really stand up if you read MY links, which show:

a) clear intent by western powers to use Daesh specifically to show disrespect and to cause offense. Intent of the speaker to cause offense is practically the defining characteristic of a slur.

and

b) clear offense taken by them, with reports by the AP going so far as to threaten to cut out the tongues of anyone they heard using the term.

I'm not sure how you can possibly think the contents of your links (which i did read) refute this.

Re:Its real name is 'Islamic State'

[BlueStrat]

I'm not sure how you can possibly think the contents of your links (which i did read) refute this.

Because SILENCE, INFIDEL!

Strat

Re:Its real name is 'Islamic State'

[Anonymous Cow Ward]

No, I did not mean to make a blanket statement about abbreviations in general. AP reports on those threats are both old and based on unreliable information, and whether or not Western powers intend disrespect is irrelevant to whether disrespect is acknowledged. If you're trying to cause offense but none is taken, then at the very least it's not an effective pejorative. Perhaps I should have said ISIS doesn't take it as a pejorative rather than saying it isn't one, though.

Re:Its real name is 'Islamic State'

[unixisc]

They already control - like a government - large swathes of territory in Iraq & Syria, even if its area is constantly changing. It's like claiming that the Taliban regime in Afghanistan was not a state b'cos nobody (except 3 countries) recognized it. If any group controls - either legitimately or by force - any stretch of land and governs it like a state, you better believe they are a state.

And on Islamic, you claim they are not Islamic b'cos...?

Re:Its real name is 'Islamic State'

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmmm. I think though, that we need to acknowledge their ambitions and claims. Not to support them, but to make explicit the danger they pose.

1). Islamic. Sure it's a perversion of Islam, but they claim Islamic inspiration and authority. Regularly, repeatedly, to the point of being tiresome. While it's obvious propaganda, take a look at the endless stream of internet videos they release, particularly the ones with bombs or violence in them. In every one you'll find some ISIS member saying "God is Great" or "God Willing", and I don't mean once an hour. They throw it in every third sentence, and that's a practice they hold in common with ordinary Muslims. I'm not saying that ordinary Muslims are terrorists, I'm saying that ISIS members speak exactly like every other Muslim. Their speech patterns, phrasing and use of language are clearly Islamic;

2). State. They are very clear that they want to form a state, and for the last 2 years they've had a de-facto state. They are going to lose it... but in the meantime they are dangerous and the territory they hold with statehood ambitions, became a valuable recruiting tool for ISIS. For those who were interested in joining ISIS, this looks like something interesting, different and exciting. It's a return to the glory days of the Baghdad Caliphate! They aren't just another stateless terror group! They are "legitimate" from this point of view, or at least trying to trying to become legitimate.

If we forget or downplay what they are trying to do, we might get complacent. Well no, not now, to be honest the world is now shaken out of our complacency. But look at the humiliating disaster that was the Iraqi Army's retreat from northern Iraq. How did that happen? Complacency, incompetence and divisive governance. All of which led to an unprofessional army that was easily spooked into retreat, even though they outnumbered ISIS. The Iraqi Army had better equipment, more equipment, more soldiers, on paper they were better in every way. Yet they crumbled under pressure.

Even weirder is that everyone in the region hates ISIS. Every established government is opposed to them. Yet look how ISIS still managed to gain the upper hand, at least for a while.

That must not happen again.

Was "Penny get your own Wi-fi" taken?

[gachunt]

Maybe if they offered the judge a hot beverage?

I don't think that means what you think that means

[Atrox666]

Daesh is actually an insult to the Islamic state people. It's anti-terrorist not pro-terrorist.

https://www.freewordcentre.com...

Terrornetzwerk

[angel'o'sphere]

A pub I frequent has a community above or in a neighbour house where the SSID of the WLAN is "Terrornetzwerk".

Give him a break

[downright]

Daesh 1-20 were already taken. What are we talking about again?

Freedom? You have to join the migration movement

[Anonymous Coward]

The world is coming to an end and the last bastion of freedom may end up being in New Hampshire. A migration of liberty minded activists has been moving for the purpose of achieving a disproportional impact on politics at the state level and has been having some success. Unlike with the general population whom we know won't even take the time to vote those who are willing to get up and move are more conscious and active in such things. Including at protesting, promoting freedom, running for offices at all levels, testifying at regulatory meetings, and so on.

I moved in NH to take part in the Free State Project and I'm convinced we can end the tyranny of government to a great degree by eliminating or at least minimising it. Most of the suffering caused by government happens at the state level. States imprison more people than the federal government even though the federal government has a greater negative impact on peoples lives of whom it targets.

France bombed Libya didn't they?

[Anonymous Coward]

Given how I deem all countries having invaded Libya to be terrorist organizations (norway included), because of how it all seemed to have been the intent of USA to plan for regime change (USA currently involved in waging war in Syria for regime change), and how France iirc was one of the countries invading/bombing Libya, France is on my mental list of terrorist organizations. Undoubtedly an unpopular opinion among most people, because why label a western state, your own country even to be called terrorists, but I for one are really tired of the bullshit politics in the middle east area, and for the simple contention that war is terror (excluding torture etc), waging war, even not calling it war, are acts of terrorism I'd argue.

Saving face

[Anonymous Coward]

From the French article - the prosecutors investigated this guy's phone calls, texts, online, and banking activities. Having found nothing, they felt they had to have something to show for their efforts (taxpayer costs), so they gave him a suspended sentence on a new (untested?) law.

Wifi SSID

[Anonymous Coward]

This is like calling your Wifi "Dick" and you don't speak English. Are you meant to go and look up every other language to make sure it doesn't brake any law or offend anybody?

LAN SSID

[Anonymous Coward]

Mine is currently "GetoffmyLAN"

Dijon had IS attacks in 2014

[kencurry]

... and if you RTFA you would see he was offered 100 hrs community service, but he declined. So he had a soft exit and passed on it. Dijon had back to back IS terrorist attack in 2014 with people run down in the street and knifed. No way they are going have a sense of humor about his cute WIFI name; Kid deserved what he got..

Re:Dijon had IS attacks in 2014

[Anonymous Coward]

... and if you RTFA you would see he was offered 100 hrs community service, but he declined.

No need to RTFA for that, it's in TFS.

Re:I don't think that means what you think that me

[Anonymous Coward]

Daesh is actually an insult to the Islamic state people. It's anti-terrorist not pro-terrorist.

https://www.freewordcentre.com...

Daesh is one of those words that was appropriated and defined to be an insult by the insulter.

Daesh is a westernized abbreviation for Dawlat al-Islamiyah f'al-Iraq wa al-Sham. The fact is that Daesh means nothing. However, some folks have stated that you can interpret this westernized abbreviation to sounding similar to a word that implies bigotry and started using the abbreviation with such mal-intent which eventually the caused some folks to be actually be insulted by the intent.

Propaganda is a powerful thing. Just think how a derogatory nickname for the four Euro-countries Greece, Italy, Portugal, and Spain came to pass. If only they left those countries in alphabetical order, there's no meaning there at all...

France is a pathetic police state

[WaffleMonster]

Perpetually offended and afraid.

Re:France is a pathetic police state

[Anonymous Coward]

haha, you are the pathetic one here, jerko

Re:Europe is a feminist anti-liberty anti-man shit

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it you, Vladimir Zirinovski?

He said Jehovah!

[Anonymous Coward]

"Where are we anyway?"

Re: He said Jehovah!

[bugnuts]

You're just making it worse on yourself.

Does that mean

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

Does that mean I should rename my wifi SSID from "Homeland Monitoring Station 325" to something more innocuous?

(Seriously, that's what it's named, so if you see it you're in my neighborhood!)

I trust...

[ooloorie]

I trust it's still OK to refer to present day France as "Vichy 2.0" and to refer to its current leader by the honorary title of "Marshal Putain"?

what makes you think they "overlooked" that?

[ooloorie]

Europe generally outlaws speech that upsets people and might provoke violence. So, you can get prosecuted for praising a radical organization, but you can also get prosecuted for insulting a radical organization, on the theory that you might be provoking violence.

Web Video

[Anonymous Coward]

I was watching a web video, just a short technical demonstration of something or other.

Now, it wasn't part of the video (not intentionally anyway), and the presenter did nothing to bring attention to it. However the narrator brought up a list of all the WiFi networks in range of their computer. #1 on that list was a SSID named "I can hear you having sex"!

Normally this is super overused, but that was a true LOL moment. It was passive aggressive, suppressed rage, or disgust maybe. Perhaps just resignation but an insistence to comment on the situation. Truly funny though!

Provinces

[Anonymous Coward]

Cote d'Or, the French department, or province, where Dijon is located

France does not has provinces. La république est une et indivisible

Re:Provinces

[Zontar The Mindless]

That worked out real well for them in Algeria, n'est-ce pas?

Re:Provinces

[Anonymous Coward]

French Algeria did not have a remove chance to work, because France failed to apply its own principle there.

"native" people of Algeria were not full citizen, and had restricted right to vote. That broke the french social contract (of Jean-Jacques Rousseau inspiration): if citizen have different right to vote, then the law is not the result of the People will, and hence it may be rejected as illegitimate by some.

Let us call French Algeria how it deserves to be called: a colony, an occupied territory, but not a France department.

SSID frogidiots

[mbeckman]

The French. Who can understand their bureaucratic lunacy? Just eat a snail and move on.

Re:Freedom? You have to join the migration movemen

[Zontar The Mindless]

A migration of liberty minded activists has been moving for the purpose of achieving a disproportional impact on politics at the state level and has been having some success.

Or, in plain English, Let's go someplace where we outnumber the locals, then take over and run things to suit ourselves, and the hell with them and how they feel about it.

Yes but the acronym in itself is NOT pejorative

[aepervius]

They just don't like it because it is *near* other words, look it up. It is an important precision. And france is not under daesh control and a lot of very young idiot are using it.

Re:Dont fool yourselfs

[Anonymous Coward]

If you think saying something like that is criticism then you don't know what criticism is. I don't disagree with you but don't fool yourself; that's racism, not criticism.

Nope, it's anti-semitism; please refrain from calling this racism, it is not.

Mine is named...

[Anonymous Coward]

...ComputerVirusCentral

Terrorism terrorism terrorism

[Anonymous Coward]

Terrorism terrorism terrorism Terrorism terrorism terrorism ..What was I thinking again? ..ah, it doesn't matter.

We have the same brains

[Anonymous Coward]

...as people who burned women for being witches. We've run out of witches to burn.

Wow

[Anonymous Coward]

My Wi-Fi network is named "Black Panther Party National HQ." That's to scare the old bat neighbor who keeps telling my black husband that he doesn't belong here.

 

It's weird to me that the story refers to him as

[Anonymous Coward]

"the man". What's his name ? Something rotten about this. Also, now they get to appeal to EU courts. Remember this when Europeans go on and on about how e fuck things up here.

What an idiocy

[Damouze]

If having an Arabic word as an SSID for your wifi becomes grounds for arrest, France has really lost its way.

What's next? Procecuting the creators of Joan of Arcardia for using "One of us" by Joan Osborne, or even more silly, Joan Osborne herself? The song contains the phrase "god is great"... Of course, the first case would be doubly ironic, because of the reference to the 100 years' war.

Re:What an idiocy

[mind_of_delusion]

[sorry for the english spelling errors !] It's obviously an abusive interpretation of the french law, as the lawyer of this young idiot has said (french site here : http://www.nextinpact.com/news...). The exact charge against this guy is "apologie d’acte de terrorisme", or apology for terrorism. The "tribunal correctionnel" (the instance for this kind of charges) has been really overzealous, but since it's the first time this kind of case is judged (AFAIK), the judgment was supposed to be an example (to their mind anyway).

The 18-years old man

[Mondor]

TFA doesn't disclose the name of the innocent 18-years old man. So let me guess - Mohammad?

Re:I don't think that means what you think that me

[mind_of_delusion]

Daesh is actually an insult to the Islamic state people. It's anti-terrorist not pro-terrorist.

https://www.freewordcentre.com...

The fact is that in all french media, the IS is named Daesh (before reading this new, I wasn't aware of the meaning of the word).

Re:Freedom? You have to join the migration movemen

[Anonymous Coward]

yes, that is how democracy works.

Obvious

[DarthVain]

"21" in this context represents the number for the Cote d'Or, the French department, or province, where Dijon is located.

I am not sure how obvious that definition of what 21 might mean in France given circumstances, however when I read it the first thing I thought of was:

"Forever 21" which I thought might just be poking fun at IS...
http://www.forever21.com/ca/de...