Slashdot Mirror
Office Depot Allegedly Diagnosing Computers With Nonexistent Viruses To Meet Sales Goals (consumerist.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Consumerist: A new report claims that some Office Depot employees are falsely claiming computers are infected with viruses in order to meet sales goals. According to KIRO-TV in Seattle, employees of the office supply retailer allege that pressure to sell protection plans and other services has led store staffers to misdiagnose computers with viruses. To investigate the claims, the station took six computers to various Office Depot stores in Washington and Oregon for PC Health Checks. There technicians determined that four out of the six computers showed symptoms of malware. To fix the issues, the employees attempted to sell services costing up to $200. The only problem? The computers were out of the box new. A second test by a unaffiliated computer security firm found no symptoms of malware and no needs for repair. The employee tells KIRO that workers selling the services are just following corporate mandates. To make matters worse, he says, the company posts sales goals and current employee sales in the break room for all to see. This, he claims, creates more aggressive associates to push harder when selling the protection plans for nonexistent programs.
... yeah. Not surprised at all. The encouragement to flat-out lie to meet unrealistic sales goals (for the extended warranties and services) is about 90% of the reason I quit back when they started offering these services.
Yes they have malware.
That's part of the package that comes on every new computer.
And that is not counting Win 10 - the king of malware.
= completely blameless theft for mega corps. Gotta love it. Don't forget kiddos, coffee is for closers.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
"The only problem? The computers were out of the box new."
That's not a guarantee they were malware free. There are many reports of Malware being installed on new systems - even on Slashdot!
"A second test by a unaffiliated computer security firm found no symptoms of malware and no needs for repair."
But that's proper proof!
I can say that compared to the amount of actual viruses I see personally, people that take computers to any retail computer service place get told they had a virus at a MUCH higher rate than mere statistics should bear out....
I would suspect that it is a MUCH easier fix to say "you had a virus, I had to wipe and reinstall" than to actually track down a niggly driver or configuration issue... and does it pretty much unattended...
I think it is the easy (but shitty) way out as much as anything. The fact that most consumers are so scared and thankful for their "narrow escape" doesn't hurt...
They would not have to resort to this type of behavior if government would just lift the shackle of burdensome regulations. I foresee a whole new era of prosperity ahead!
I'm pretty sure cheating-to-reach-sales-goals is quite common and inflicts lots of industries. The techniques, psychology, and practices used by Wells Fargo and Office Depot are common to corporations.
Ghost services and their fees have "accidentally" been added to our telecom bills on multiple occasions, for example.
I've even worked for companies that have paid me to lie to clients (not consumers). The body language of managers pushing to do such suggested it was common and expected. It was either really good acting to convince me it's normal and risk-free, or it is indeed common and expected to them. Either of those scenarios is evil.
It's one reason why talk of deregulation makes me nervous. It's not just trickle-down, but slime-down.
Table-ized A.I.
Reminds me of RadioShack. They started firing people for not offering every customer that walked in a cell phone and DirecTV (even if they had just bought one the day before.)
Micro Center near Lincoln Park in Chicago has a similar issue. The 'technicians' here could not repair a power port (soldering job, personally not comfortable enough with it) but did have the time to look at my Ubuntu installation and try to sell me a Windows installation, claiming that Ubuntu is not a viable operating system and it was prone to viruses. Not to mention the 'Sales' people who walk around trying to covertly slap on their sales stickers on products customers are eyeing and even being so blunt to ask me "did anyone help you?" and as I reply that they did not, proceeds to put a sticker on an ethernet switch I was holding, and walk away.
Just thought I'd share a somewhat similar anecdote.
Cheers,
J
"technicians determined that four out of the six computers showed symptoms of malware. ..The only problem? The computers were out of the box new."
The real question is why the other two didn't also detect that Windows was installed.
workers forced into this type of a situation by management would say "F___ you" and walk out. Maybe get a job in manufacturing.
Except we don't have a sane job market, manufacturing jobs have been decimated in the name of profit (management calls it "globalism" and "free trade"). Other manual jobs are equally hard to come by, due to the large scale importation of low-cost laborers (management calls it "open borders" and "dreamers").
Let's be honest here, sales associates at Office Depot or Wells Fargo aren't exactly MIT material. They can't retrain and become doctors or aerospace engineers. Manufacturing used to be one place where non-rocket scientists could go and make a decent living, and now that''s gone.
If these tools (the dumb techs, not the software) are anything like geek squad, then they define "malware" to include tracking cookies and other mundane data.
Wow- again?
The problem is that people think these places have qualified techs. They don't (in my opinion). And they are not forced to have qualified techs because the customer has no idea how their appliances work. So they can get away with it, mostly, and not get caught unless someone actually looks.
The other (big) problem is that these companies engage in price competition so viciously that they cannot make money on what they sell- they have to make money on selling services that are essentially useless.
I saw this going on in the early 90s when CompUSA was petrified that Best Buy would be coming into their markets. First it was price match. Then it was sales goals (for non commissioned employees). Then it was selling extended service. Then is was in-house CompUSA credit.... Then PDAs... and right before they closed- phones....
Of course it didn't work. If you give up the profit on the main thing you sell, you cannot make it up with add-ons. So the company failed.
Best Buy took it to a new art form. Extended warranty, art of the up-sell, credit card sales in the isles, and finally the "Geek Squad". Best Buy is still limping along... not for long. I wonder if they are still doing jumping jacks before the store opening?
And Office Depot.... taking advantage of customers with fictitious computer problems and viruses. I bet they only arrived there after the extended warranty, in house credit-card, in-house tech services failed to make them a profit.
These kinds of happenings are rife in the brick and mortar retail tech industry. There are exceptions... but if all they do is compete on price- eventually add-ons fail to save the company.
Then the company puts pressure on it's staff.... then corruption starts.....it's predictable.
Another consultant who stuck it out.
"We are the Priests, of the Temples of Syrinx..."
When I am forced to take my car for service, I take it to my mechanic friend. If he is busy, he will make time to come with me to the shop/dealer while dropping off and picking up. This keeps them a little bit honest, as he can call bullshit in a language I don't speak.
When my mechanic friend needs PC help he brings his computer to me, if I am to busy, I make time to go with him to the repair guys. I can call bullshit in a language he don't speak..
I live in a Seattle suburb. I actually saw this story on the local news a few days ago, we all got a big laugh out of it. My 11 year old boy laughed the loudest, he's been repairing neighborhood computers for the elderly for about a year. I'ts crazy that computer repair houses are still a thing. Your local teen can likely perform basic PC repair service in exchange for a couple of bucks, or a day off of chores. If not, he knows a guy that can.
You are being ripped off every second of every day, so that advertisers can help rip you off even more tomorrow.
...was trying to set up utility services when I moved.
The utility company actually passed me off to "partner" to finish my setup, and that "partner" of course was a marketing firm with no purpose other than to attempt to sell me internet, satellite TV, phone services, etc. And of course when I said, reasonably politely, "I'm not interested in anything but getting my gas service setup." I got flak about how the "representative" was "just trying to help me out with great deals sir". And then the "representative" simply moved on to the next offer and I had to repeat the same thing 2x with exactly the same result.
Can't really get mad at the person on the phone though, doubtlessly they are just following a terrible script to the letter in order to keep their job. Unfortunately since it's a utility with a monopoly there's nothing I can really do about it.
This is nothing new, nor is it unique to Office Depot. I worked at Staples almost a decade ago, I would get in trouble if I said a PC was fine. Also the sales goals are set so that if a store is not doing shit like this managers get fired.
Honestly ANYONE foolish enough to take their computer to an office supply is pretty touched. Do you take your car to get fixed at the Sandwich shop?
Daves auto repair and hair salon! Get your oil changes and a new hairdoo!
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Of course they're doing this. I'd be more surprised if it turned out that they weren't.
And of course Best Buy's Geek Squad is famous (or should it be "infamous"?) for doing this too.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
I get all the tech support I need from helpful services that call me whenever my computer has a virus. Somehow they know! Sure, it's expensive, but all I have to do is answer the phone and follow simple directions. A bunch of smart people with foreign accents take care of everything!
As well as Future Shop when they existed, Frys, and any and ALL other large electronics retailers that offer computer "service"
The only problem? The computers were out of the box new.
Okay, so maybe neither the tech nor the "PC Health Check" software knew the difference between a virus and the crapware that's on the system "out of the box" (and no, I don't mean the bare-bones Windows 10, I mean all the slow-your-system-down add-ons the manufacturers put on there). Why am I not surprised.
More likely, the software was dumb and the tech was pretending to be dumb to meet quota.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
The computers were out of the box new.
Just because a computer is out-of-the-box new, doesn't mean it can't contain malware -- and in fact a lot of people here will tell you that many new computers come with malware embedded at the OS level. Before it was limited to certain countries or companies, like a recent case where the manufacturer installed malware to intercept ads and replace them with their own, and to forge security certificates so they could do it with secure websites. Now the OS itself shows symptoms of malware, which will make it much harder to identify non-OS malware.
Of course, and anti-virus won't remove that, and providing fake services to people who don't know any better is a nasty thing to do. And with the blessing of the managers and CEO too, although they'd never admit it (they're just pushing hard and rewarding success).
Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
stayed for the former employee stories.
Yet another example of misaligned incentives - short term profits over long term brand value
I think it is important to remember that history is filled with periods of 'rule by might' or 'rule by law'. What I think we are seeing right now is a general corporate trend to 'rule by might'. The government is consistently showing that is toothless (either through corruption or negligence), and so it is not a significant to the corporate bottom line.
Unless we want to submit to a period of 'rule by might' again, I think it may be up to each citizen to exercise their purchasing power in ways that do not benefit corporations that have consistently shown this trend. This is much easier said than done.
Office Depot, Best Buy, Staples, etc. are all guilty of this. I walk in with a system just to test them. 95% of the time, they get caught in an outright lie.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
I worked at a place where a clerk in accounting manipulated the bills to trick customers to send refunds to her own bank. The clerk got away with about $10k (in current dollars) before caught. She lost about the same in pension when fired, but was NOT turned over to law enforcement.
She seemed like a nice person, but grew quiet during the period she was cheating.
A similar crime happened about 2 years later by somebody else in the same accounting department. That's what happens when they are not jailed: you send a message that the risk is small.
It would hurt company stock and reputation to prosecute, so they don't do anything about it. The company deserved the 2nd one.
Table-ized A.I.
I did not read all the posts regarding Office Depot but some would say the Windows operating system itself is Malware.
Just because a computer is new out of the box from the retailer doesn't mean it wasn't shipped with malware. I'm looking at you, Microsoft and Lenovo!
"Looks like you got the 'We11sFar60' virus. It'll be $200 to remove it."
Table-ized A.I.
My experience from Micro Center over the years has been very good.
I dropped them a note on their web page pointing to your message.
I hope they already train their managers that behavior like mis-diagnosing a virus to sell a service is unacceptable. But on the off chance that they don't, hopefully your post here and my email to them will give them a reason to add this to their training program.
For what it's worth, I'll probably be visiting my local Micro Center soon. I'll be at least a Benjamin (that's a $100 bill for those of you outside the United States) poorer when I get out.
I was under the impression everyone knew office depot ( and just about every other computer shop out there ) pulled this. The temptation to upsell is just too good when you have truly ignorant clients. This was previously ( and currently ) seen in the automotive repair industry.
I'd say that's just the tip of the iceberg too. Let's face it, normal customers are dirt poor, so you gotta scam a bunch of them to turn a penny. No, the real money is in the b2b sales; where you can fleece an entire company for a king's ransom. Having sat in on more than my fair share of vendor meetings, I know damn well this happens.
Some of the biggest names in tech are only as large as they are because of it, really. Oracle. Cisco. Microsoft. They took advantage of the ignorance of people, only in their cases those people were C level execs.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
As an ex employee I can verify the deceptive sales techniques staples mandates. Not only are attachment rates made public and printed at least 3 times a day, but associate hours were earned by various tech services. Diagnostics and virus removals gave the most hours for associates and we were often told to attach diagnostics to all work orders. What made things worse were the hungry, brain dead employees that would promise work same day and sold under a cheaper service. But that's another story.
Who in their right mind would take their pc to Office Depot to be fixed anyway? Do you take your car to Petco for an oil change?
Let's see.... Office Depot.... don't want to ever shop there. I can I remember that. There are all kinds of office store.
Oh, I know. I want to put Office Depot in De Pot and never shop there again. That's it. Office Depot in De Pot.
this is what happens when you put people in charge of gov't that don't believe gov't can do anything. Christ, it's like people don't even know what NASA and the Post Office are or the miracles they represent.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Why does that not surprise me? To be fair, their customers are fucking morons who deserve to be ripped off. They're going to OFFICE FUCKING DEPOT with their COMPUTER PROBLEMS.
Why not ask them to fill their cavities too while they're at it?
Consumers should be able to backup their data and software settings and perform a complete operating system reinstall with relative, low-levels of knowledge and skills necessary. They should also be reminded to do so every 6 months. It's the safest and cheapest way to keep your PC clean. Until this becomes a reality, consumers will continue to be scammed by PC health checks and PC software repair specialists.
My first job was "technology associate" for a national chain found in Canada and in the US. I was just out of high school back then.
Basically the guys on the floor would sell a computer to a customer. Usually some big brand PC that would come with a free printer and a monitor, and since the thing was on sale and the store wasn't making as much money on it as they would like to, the GM would make the employee push "attachments" down the throat of customers. Extended wireless mouse/keyboard upgrade, extra batteries for the mouse/kb, warranties on the PC, on the monitor and on the printer, premium inkjet paper, photo paper, extra ink cartridges, Norton Internet Security suite, MS Office and ofcourse a 30$ gold plated USB cable for the printer.
But that wasn't enough! You also had to sell tech services. One of those services was the "start up package" which was about 80$. All it included was the final Windows setup, so upon booting the thing, the client would be dropped in on his desktop instead of on the windows installer. Basically, the tech would sit in front of the pc, click "NEXT" a bunch of times, run Windows update and then bill you 80$ for it. The workshop was also setup so the tech could do 6 computers at a time and during the back to school season, when everyone's buying computers, the 6 bays were occupied most of the time. Considering it takes about an hour or so to do the job, the store would rake in 480$ for one man/hour of tech services.
All sales associates had to sign on their sales and we had a bean counter "head cashier" that was keeping track of how much warranties/premium paper/gold plated usb cable/tech services you were selling and that would decide how many hours of work you'd have for the next week. Our manager was always telling us at the morning meeting that he ran his store like a hockey team and that just like in a hockey teams, players who didn't score enough wouldn't get much ice time. Some of the guys who weren't selling enough premium services were down to a single 4 hour shift (5 to 9 pm) per week. The store couldn't legally fire you for not selling enough warranties, but that's how they got rid of you. They would just give all of your hours to someone who was making more sales than you.
That's retail for you.
Orifice De Pot doesn't read the news I see. Otherwise they'd know what happened to Wells Fargo when they pulled the same crap. On the other hand, why on earth would anyone trust Office Depot with a computer? They didn't fill my paper order correctly so I stopped using them. Hey, if you can't get paper right, why on earth would you expect me to believe you can get a computer right?
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
This sounds a bit like what employees were coerced to do at Wells Fargo to meet their "sales" goals. In that case, it included creating bogus accounts and credit cards for millions of customers. :-)
The cops also sell "protection plans".
...the majority of "viruses" aren't.
They're just crap-ware accidentally installed by the user.
The biggest offender is Anti-Virus applications that interrupt system functions and slow the machine to a halt.
I haven't used anti-virus since Windows NT 3.51, and have yet to get a virus. Of course, I don't run as Administrator either.
Wells Fargo and Office depot decide to merge
They cite 'cultural compatibility' as a reason.
Tried to sell me some geeksquad service for getting rid of all bloatware and providing free OS updates when buying a Mac. So basically they wanted me to throw money away.
Back before it went out of business, I called it CompOoza. It wasn't only that CompUSA management intended to be abusive, in my opinion, CompUSA was amazingly badly managed in other ways.
Customers could advise and ask for criminal action against store employee and all store directors in UK if this was to push sales targets. However it would need a witness and the technical proof as recorded. Better to have new computer tested first , approach shop for help get their result and then test again. Thus incompetence or deliberate fraud.
Regards Eion MacDonald
I used to do warranty repairs for portable electronics for a big-name manufacturer. Easily 50% of them were for dead batteries. This was before the rechargeable era. We still got paid by the manufacturer. In would try to do a head alignment or IF alignment or something just to keep some self respect.
As a former remote Support Engineer for the company Office Depot, OfficeMax, and Staples outsourced most work to, I know that in store, Office Depot, Office Max, and Staples all ran a diagnostic that looks for malware among other problems.
The REAL issue is what you define to be malware.
Some tools identify lots of browser plugins, OEM utilities, and other security programs as "potential" malware. That another firm did not find malware only means that their definition of malware may be less inclusive.
Removing or disabling a lot of the crapware OEMs force upon their customers definitely improves the performance of the computer. By that aspect alone, a lot of OEM "utilities" are indeed malware because they negatively impact performance. But some companies do not identify OEM programs that way, because they assume all OEM included SW to be a component of a properly functioning PC. (Usually due to negotiations with those OEMS)
I don't accept just one other diagnosis as "proof" of OD selling unneeded SW and services. (not saying they don't) Show me the results of 4 or 5 other non-affiliated diagnostics, then we can get a better picture of the situation.
Office Depot now no different from Mark Johnson at Windows Technical Department.