Slashdot Mirror
Trump Says He's Going To 'Get Apple To Build a Big Plant In the United States' (arstechnica.com)
In a Tuesday interview with The New York Times, President-elect Donald Trump said that he would incentivize Apple to "build a big plant in the United States, or many big plants in the United States." Ars Technica reports: Trump indicated to columnist Thomas Friedman that he is going to double-down on bringing factory jobs back to America, especially in the Rust Belt from Michigan to Pennsylvania.
FRIEDMAN: Are you worried, though, that those companies will keep their factories here, but the jobs will be replaced by robots?
TRUMP: They will, and we'll make the robots, too. [laughter]
TRUMP: It's a big thing, we'll make the robots, too. Right now we don't make the robots. We don't make anything. But we're going to. I mean, look, robotics is becoming very big and we're going to do that. We're going to have more factories. We can't lose 70,000 factories. Just can't do it. We're going to start making things.
Trump continued, saying that he had received a call from Apple CEO Tim Cook. As the president-elect recounted: "...and I said, 'Tim, you know, one of the things that will be a real achievement for me is when I get Apple to build a big plant in the United States, or many big plants in the United States, where instead of going to China, and going to Vietnam, and going to the places that you go to, you're making your product right here.' He said, 'I understand that.' I said: 'I think we'll create the incentives for you, and I think you're going to do it. We're going for a very large tax cut for corporations, which you'll be happy about.' But we're going for big tax cuts, we have to get rid of regulations, regulations are making it impossible. Whether you're liberal or conservative, I mean, I could sit down and show you regulations that anybody would agree are ridiculous. It's gotten to be a free-for-all. And companies can't, they can't even start up, they can't expand, they're choking." A report from Nikkei last week said that Apple is exploring the idea of making iPhones in the United States, but the company has realized that it will cost more than double to make the shiny new gadgets at home.
FRIEDMAN: Are you worried, though, that those companies will keep their factories here, but the jobs will be replaced by robots?
TRUMP: They will, and we'll make the robots, too. [laughter]
TRUMP: It's a big thing, we'll make the robots, too. Right now we don't make the robots. We don't make anything. But we're going to. I mean, look, robotics is becoming very big and we're going to do that. We're going to have more factories. We can't lose 70,000 factories. Just can't do it. We're going to start making things.
Trump continued, saying that he had received a call from Apple CEO Tim Cook. As the president-elect recounted: "...and I said, 'Tim, you know, one of the things that will be a real achievement for me is when I get Apple to build a big plant in the United States, or many big plants in the United States, where instead of going to China, and going to Vietnam, and going to the places that you go to, you're making your product right here.' He said, 'I understand that.' I said: 'I think we'll create the incentives for you, and I think you're going to do it. We're going for a very large tax cut for corporations, which you'll be happy about.' But we're going for big tax cuts, we have to get rid of regulations, regulations are making it impossible. Whether you're liberal or conservative, I mean, I could sit down and show you regulations that anybody would agree are ridiculous. It's gotten to be a free-for-all. And companies can't, they can't even start up, they can't expand, they're choking." A report from Nikkei last week said that Apple is exploring the idea of making iPhones in the United States, but the company has realized that it will cost more than double to make the shiny new gadgets at home.
If he gets his way: Enjoy your next iPhone costing $3000.
I for one am glad that robots will soon be big. I have always hoped to live in an age where robots are a thing. Making them big is just the icing on the mechanical cake.
Believe nothing -- Buddha
Somebody seems to overestimate his powers, mental and constitutional.
"Get Apple to build a big plant in the United States"
So, an Apple tree?
Summation 2
Let's be pretty clear here. It will be American robots manufacturing iPhones, instead of Asian ones.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
No big deal. From what we've seen so far, tomorrow he'll Tweet about how wonderful it is that Apple is making their phones in Asia instead of the US.
Too bad Steve Jobs isn't still around to take that phone call. The reality distortion fields would have caused a rip in space-time.
"Well, good luck finding a judge that doesn't run a bestiality site."
He said he's going to move the capital of Israel to Jerusalem.
Trump is pushing to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. A position that previous presidents have avoided since the founding of modern Israel. Most countries have their embassies in Tel Aviv.
How would he do that? Does he have the authority?
Executive order. But I'm sure Congress will want to put in their pound of flesh for the congressional record.
Would he just declare it to be so and the rest of the world would go along?
Nope.
1. Regulations are not created by some evil Liberul cabal in Berkeley that sits around smoking weed and drinking espressos saying, "How can we make business more difficult. Regulations arise because there is at least a few assholes who think, "If it's not illegal, then it's OK!" - even if it causes the deaths of people. So these regulations didn't come out of thin air - somewhere, they are (or were) protecting someone.
2. Corporate taxes are comparatively excessive in the US - even compared to evil Socialist European tax systems. BUT, any tax cuts means revenues will have to be made up somewhere else and let's give up on the fantasy that lowering taxes boosts the economy enough to wash out the tax cuts.
3. The stock markets are hoping that the Republican controlled government does what Republicans do best: cut taxes, spend like a motherfucker, and borrow the short falls. "Bringing manufacturing jobs back" looks like a cover for doing just that.
4. And when deficits go further through the roof, the Republicans will just blame Obama.
5. I bet Trump's imagined wealth that this will in fact happen.
It's yet another Trump hyperbolic promise with no grounds on reality. Has anyone noticed he never elaborates on the how? It is easy to promise the moon and it is, evidently, also easy for most of the population to buy it at face value alone.
Hell, i can do it as well: I'll talk with Tim Cook myself. And we'll have great, huge, American iPhone factories, with American robots - cause wee don't make anything, but we're going to. Our robots will be tremendous and we'll have 200,000 new factories putting incredibly advanced new iPhones every year. American iPhones to make America Great Again(tm)!
Classic Trumpism. What are these mythical regulations? Name something? give an example? Instead when a reporter wastes their time going over regulations they find the industry pretty on par and then Trump backpedals saying we over exaggerated what he meant and what he said was just a joke. Ugh we have to do FOUR YEARS of this nonsense? He can just say what he wants and no one's going to stop him?
Just another second banana
FRIEDMAN: Are you worried, though, that those companies will keep their factories here, but the jobs will be replaced by robots?
TRUMP: They will, and we'll make the robots, too. [laughter]
*Whoosh*
I feel like for the next 4 years America will be used as kind of a learning tool for Trump (a, "Trump University", if you will) to learn very basic economic and government principles. . . poorly. And all it will cost is the well being of an entire nation. . .
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
A service based economy cannot survive in the long run. You must create/produce something of value. A service economy will run out of money eventually. Every county must produce for themselves as well as import/export. Finding a healthy balance is difficult.
The U.S. must also become more competitive on corporate taxes. We need to be smart about allowing both personal and corporate money to flow into the country with minimal tax because that money was already taxed where it was "earned". That allows more investment and spending in the US.
"A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
This is one of the most concrete, attainable, and consistent things he's said.
How? I'm genuinely asking. Has Apple showed/communicated anything that supports this affirmation?
Look, perhaps many of you don't understand how modern factories work, you're stuck on the old concepts of assembly lines with a few robots and a lot of humans.
A modern factory, for the most part, has robot trucks and forklifts and many robots doing work.
And very very few humans.
They operate 24/7/365 in the dark, unheated and uncooled.
Not a lot of jobs there.
They are even BUILT by robots for the most part.
That's what an Apple factory in the US would be. A 2018 plant with very few jobs. Unless you're a robot.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
He is riding a wave of anti-globalization sentiment, he has both houses of congress, Chinese factory wages have risen steadily, and most of you laughing now were probably laughing in the same way on November 7. For crying out loud, use your imagination. This is one of the most concrete, attainable, and consistent things he's said.
Convincing the "Poorly Educated" to vote for you by promising that you will bring Manufacturing back to the U.S is a lot harder then convincing the Highly Educated (CEO's) to actually bring those Manufacturing plants back. For one those CEO's will actually want to see Plans and Details and the Trump campaign lacked either of those
Tim Cook already said he would build factories here if the corporate tax laws were changed, which is Trump is going to get done with republican congress. Going OMG Trump is getting a little old. https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Trump is a brilliant improviser. One way to redirect criticism is to accept the criticism, and spin it as though it agreed with you. I actually took a course on collaboration in a corporate environment that talks about this. Their idea was not to use it to spin things though, but to keep people open to ideas. Instead of saying "no, you are wrong because" you say "yes, and..." elaborate on how you will address the problem. Trump takes this to the next level.
Trump: "I'm going to build a wall"
The world: "That's ridiculous, that will cost 5 billions of dollars!"
Trump: "My wall idea is soo ridiculous, it will cost 10 billion dollars!"
The world: "We can't afford that."
Trump: "So I'll have somebody else pay for it!"
Trump: "I'm going to build iPhones in America."
The world: "That will cost too much."
Trump: "Yeah! They will cost so much that we will have to construct robots to build the phones!"
The world: "But if robots build them, that won't employ workers."
Trump: "My robots will be so awesome that they will cook breakfast for the workers!"
Sometimes I want him to say "Because I'm Donald Trump, bitch" in the same voice that Dave Chapelle used when he said "'Cuz I'm Rick James, bitch!"
Irony: One reason you can build iPhones cheaply in China is because Chinese workers don't get the kinds of protections and rights that US workers do. That was part of the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP): to raise the worker protections in China to level the playing field. Trump is doing the opposite. He says regulations will be removed in the US. So instead of raising worker protections for Chinese workers, it sounds like he is going to remove protections from US workers. And ironically, the blue-collar workers voted for this.
Well, I see a hitch in this plan: Apple doesn't actually make most of its popular products itself.
I certainly think it's possible to make a token number of devices here, something with symbolic value. But it's not going to be easy to build up enough domestic capacity to make a significant dent in our imports. For one thing Foxconn has got a lot experience doing this, and that's valuable -- worth actual money which will have to be added tot he cost. Probably the easiest way forward is to get Foxconn to build a plant here. But it's still not going to make a big difference.
To make a big difference fast, you have to take steps that are so drastic that they are sure to ignite a trade war, which will (a) raise domestic prices and (b) cost US export jobs. Even if this is a good thing in the long run, but there will be pain in the short run.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Corporations are not natural entities. They are created by law and they let the shareholders hide behind the corporations and not have any personal liability for anything they do in the name of the corporation. This is expensive for society. Still society allows it in return for the money they get from corporations as corporate taxes. I would support 0 tax for corporations if directors of corporations become personally liable for all decisions made by a corporation including bankruptcy so if a corporation like Trump Hotels declares bankruptcy then Donald Trump loses his right to vote and right to stand for elections. Also any consumer lawsuits against a corporation gets paid out of the personal wealth of the corporation's directors. If you dont want this then pay up for the immunity you buy using corporate taxes. There is no such thing as a free lunch.
**Life is too short to be serious**
Actually its very easy to get the Chinese to pay for stuff in the US. They hold a huge amount of dollars. Just start the printing presses and devalue the dollar and the Chinese holding just went down in value and you used the printed dollars for what you wanted to do. In effect the Chinese paid for it.
**Life is too short to be serious**
First of, Kudos to parent post for making a well thought out argument for policy that doesn't involve mindlessly demonizing the left or right in some simplistic idiotic fashion.
Your proposal seems very sound, encourage business and lower the barrier to create and compete. Tax the people who profit, not the company. However, I see two problems with your argument.
1) Corporations don't really pass on taxes to the consumers. Most taxes are on profits, not units sold, so unless you are thinking that sales tax is lion's share of tax that is paid out (it isn't), this isn't really an accurate view. A better way to describe taxes for corporations is being paid out of profits that could be returned to investors as profit or used for recapitalization. This would probably just result in the really wealth owners of corporations becoming even more wealth unless you also really cranked up the personal income tax for the wealthy and removed tax dodges. Businesses get to write off business expenses and deduct them from profits already, so removing taxes on profits isn't going to suddenly cause companies to radically change their expenditure on labor or infrastructure.
2) Corporations are used as personal piggy-banks by the very wealthy. By removing any taxes on corporate profits, you allow me as a majority interest holder in a large or wealthy corporation to keep my profits in the corp and then use the profits to acquire more companies and aggregate holdings completely tax free. And only divesting as I needed cash. It would be like being able to put your entire income into a tax free ROTH account, and only deducting money (and therefor paying taxes) when you bought groceries, but accruing wealth and interest in the interim.
If you want to do something like this, you would need to put some rules in place to keep corporations either reinvesting or divesting profits to shareholders and employees.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
They are created by law and they let the shareholders hide behind the corporations and not have any personal liability for anything they do in the name of the corporation. This is expensive for society. Still society allows it in return for the money they get from corporations as corporate taxes.
I'm getting off topic but that's not the point of corporations.
Corporations are formed because sometimes it's often easier to work as a group without the friction and transaction costs of trying to coordinate a group of independent actors. In theory, Apple could just hire 10,000 independent contract programmers working out of their houses to develop iOS. That would generate an enormous amount of overhead. At some point it's much cheaper and simpler to create a single legal entity with shared assets, cash flows, processes and the like. That's why people form corporations. Books have been written about this.
We don't tolerate corporations because we can skim taxes off them. Yes, that's a way to finance government but it's not the main point. The real win for society is corporations product products and services we gleefully and willingly buy. That transaction is mutually beneficial (what party will participate if they think they're losing value in the process) so both the buyer and the seller are made better off. Corporations are the best way we've yet found to really scale this up and generate enormous amounts of wealth for everyone.
There's a slew of ways to form a corporation: sole proprietorship, S-corp, C-corp, LLC, and probably others. IANAL so I can't tell you why you choose one over the other. But the whole idea was to make it safe for people to participate in a company and protect some of their personal assets. We as a society decided it was better to let people form corporations and take risks if they didn't have to worry about losing their house when their business idea flops. Most businesses do fail. The ones which succeed produce more value than all the failures lost. We want to make it safe to try crazy things on the off chance it is the next Apple, Google, Newman's Own, whatever.
(I'm trying to remember when limited liability corporations were invented. I think it was in the Netherlands in the early 1600's--some of early Europeans explorers were financed by these funky new LLCs like the Dutch East India trading company. That's about the time you see Europe starting to become very wealthy compared to the rest of the world. The industrial revolution a century and a half later really took advantage of this.)