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Wikipedia Exceeds Fundraising Target, But Continues Asking For More Money (theregister.co.uk)

Reader Andreas Kolbe writes: The fundraising banners on Wikipedia this year are so effective that halfway through its December fundraising campaign, the Wikimedia Foundation has already exceeded its $25 million donations target for the entire month, reports The Register. A few weeks ago, Jimmy Wales promised that the Wikimedia Foundation would "stop the fundraiser if enough money were raised in shorter than the planned time". But there's no sign of the Foundation doing that. When asked about this more recently, a Wikimedia Foundation spokesperson remained non-committal on ending the campaign early. The most recent audited accounts of the Wikimedia Foundation showed net assets of $92 million and revenue of $82 million. None of this money, incidentally, pays for writing or checking Wikipedia content – that's the job of unpaid volunteers – and only $2 million are spent on internet hosting every year.

181 comments

  1. [donation needed] by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    n/t

  2. Why does anyone donate to Wikipedia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It isn't as if the people who create anything of value, i.e. the article writers, are paid. Can't Jimmy Wales pay for his own three martini lunches?

    1. Re:Why does anyone donate to Wikipedia? by Calydor · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Probably because people are afraid of Wikipedia going away and they don't check their accounting first.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    2. Re:Why does anyone donate to Wikipedia? by amicusNYCL · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I agree. Everyone knows that there is no such thing as free content on the internet. Wikimedia needs to stop with this charade, add advertisements, and block people using ad-blockers like any other respectable site. That is the only way that so-called "free" websites can exist on the internet.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    3. Re:Why does anyone donate to Wikipedia? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Is it for hosting the Wiki articles?

    4. Re:Why does anyone donate to Wikipedia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry but your comment is dangerously ignorant. Your comment undermines their fundraising drive yet is reprehensibly ignorant of the scale of expenses that the Wikimedia Foundation has. You act as if all that money is irrelevant which totally ignores *EVERYTHING* about what needs to be done to provide readers what the volunteer editors have written and created.

    5. Re:Why does anyone donate to Wikipedia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This article seems to disprove your point.

    6. Re:Why does anyone donate to Wikipedia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Waitaminit - are you calling Slashdot "respectable"?

    7. Re: Why does anyone donate to Wikipedia? by joao.cordeiro · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If we are to agree that wikipedia is usefull then we can ask our selfs why?
      1 - its free
      2 - works well
      3 - info there has quality
      4 - its huge

      Do you realy think you can have a software that handles the bilions on views, edits, comments, in less then a sec, and never trows a error at you, just with good will and servers?
      No!!!
      You need a team of administradors, looking at logs of errors debuging the system, applying security patches, blocking hackers.
      You need a team of developers fixing bugs, upgrading libs, patching security holes, adding features.
      You need dev hardware and test hardware and a office for that team.
      Then there are all those lawsuits, you need a team to deal with all the law crap trown at them.
      And when all that is paid, you start thinking about next year, when ppl dont donate that much.

      It works realy well and provides a great service, why the F are you complaing about!!!!

    8. Re:Why does anyone donate to Wikipedia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Sarcasm failed

    9. Re:Why does anyone donate to Wikipedia? by Killall+-9+Bash · · Score: 1

      ....which totally ignores *EVERYTHING* about what needs to be done to provide readers what the volunteer editors have written and created.

      Such as...?

      --
      "Prediction: within 10 years, Windows will be a Linux distribution." Me, 7-6-2016
    10. Re:Why does anyone donate to Wikipedia? by frovingslosh · · Score: 1

      At their current hosting prices they have enough money to host the site for 50 years, or indefinitely if they just invest the money already donated and pay for the hosting out of interest. Authors receive nothing. But Jimmy still wants more money.

      --
      I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
    11. Re: Why does anyone donate to Wikipedia? by Andreas+Kolbe · · Score: 5, Informative

      About ten years ago, Jimmy Wales said about Wikipedia (time code 4:35):

      “So, we’re doing around 1.4 billion page views monthly. So, it’s really gotten to be a huge thing. And everything is managed by the volunteers and the total monthly cost for our bandwidth is about 5,000 dollars, and that’s essentially our main cost. We could actually do without the employee ... We actually hired Brion [Vibber] because he was working part-time for two years and full-time at Wikipedia so we actually hired him so he could get a life and go to the movies sometimes.”

      In 2008, when Wikipedia was already the world's number 8 website, the Wikimedia Foundation survived on $5 million (vs. $82 million last year). So, yes, you can have a top-ten website – written entirely by unpaid volunteers – for a fraction of the current cost.

    12. Re: Why does anyone donate to Wikipedia? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      If it's that great, why don't they make it a paid service that they SELL to just those interested? That way, they get the money they need, and don't need to panhandle random readers. Heck, they could even make the app a paid app.

    13. Re:Why does anyone donate to Wikipedia? by prefec2 · · Score: 1

      Wikipedia runs on computers. Someone has to BUY them. Someone has to PAY for their electricity, Internet connection, repairs, housing etc. Someone has to WRITE and MAINTAIN the code of the Wiki software.

    14. Re:Why does anyone donate to Wikipedia? by careysub · · Score: 4, Informative

      Sorry but your comment is dangerously ignorant. Your comment undermines their fundraising drive yet is reprehensibly ignorant of the scale of expenses that the Wikimedia Foundation has. You act as if all that money is irrelevant which totally ignores *EVERYTHING* about what needs to be done to provide readers what the volunteer editors have written and created.

      This points to the key problem with WIkimedia.

      If you look at the Charity Watch score for Wikipedia you see that is pretty high, indicating a well run charity. This seems odd given that there is actually very little public information about the actual uses to which the money is put (no, spending by broad accounting category - "engineering", "advertising", etc. does not provide this).

      Examining the matter more closely it appears that Jimmy Wales has broken new ground in "charity engineering", operating a charity in such a way that the various scoring factors for a well-run charity are met, without actually providing any real transparency.

      For most charities, that exist to provide services to specific classes of people say, you can tell if they are well-run by the fraction of money actually being spent on those people. Take as an example "Doctors Without Borders". It exists to put medical teams in war-torn and otherwise troubled areas who have none. You can assess its effectiveness by counting its teams and staffers, and the money that goes directly to supporting them.

      If the purpose of Wikimedia is to support Wikipedia (that's their pitch on every page view) then they are an abysmally run charity. The total cost of supporting Wikipedia is about $8 million it seems - a fairly generous estimate really, with hosting costing only $2 million of this. They do not provide any convenient break-out of this, BTW, they hide the actual figure (but enough data, historical and otherwise, is available to make a good estimate), only the hosting figure is actually provided. The Wikipedia support cost disappeared from view when the aggressive, highly profitable fund-raising started. Thus of the ~$100 million they are collecting this year, only 8% goes to the supporting the mission they use to promote the fund-raising. Perhaps another 10% is going into the newly created endowment (we will have to see reporting for this year), but they are not being transparent about this thus far. By normal standards this would put them in the tank as a scam charity.

      But they do have pages and pages about expansive vague goals, from which it is impossible assess how effective they are being, or where most of the money they spend is really going and which is being used for covering literally unlimited fundraising. Sure they are paying a lot of staff high salaries. But why? The exploding staff and grants are unconnected with non-existent exploding Wikipedia costs, or usage, or quality.

      Actually in a sense the transparency that does exist, getting them high charity ratings, provides us with key data to see that they are (mostly) running a scam. You see we know their over-all balance sheet and can see that it has currently (making adjustments for unreported recent months) $100 million or so in unspent money, free and clear, and are piling it up at a rate of at least $30 million a year. This is enough money right now to fully fund that endowment.

      --
      Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
    15. Re: Why does anyone donate to Wikipedia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because people like me who contributed a lot for free expect to get access to it for free in return. It's like barter with knowledge. Except we also expect others to get access for free, even if they didn't contribute anything. We filthy communists.

    16. Re: Why does anyone donate to Wikipedia? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Communists is fine, bathed or not, but if you don't wanna sell it, you shouldn't beg from people to contribute

    17. Re:Why does anyone donate to Wikipedia? by hackel · · Score: 1

      $2 million/year in hosting fees isn't exactly chump change, and they definitely need to hire good dev ops people to keep one of the busiest sites on the internet running.

    18. Re: Why does anyone donate to Wikipedia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Communists is fine, bathed or not, but if you don't wanna sell it, you shouldn't beg from people to contribute

      I don't have a problem with them begging. I have a problem with them sitting on a solid-gold toilet and burning wads of $100 bills to power their server cooling systems while they do the begging.

      If the donations stopped tomorrow, they could easily operate for the next 10 years without worrying about their bills going unpaid. But still the banner shows up, warning of how much we'll lose out on if everyone doesn't donate "just $3".

    19. Re:Why does anyone donate to Wikipedia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Wikipedia runs on computers. Someone has to BUY them. Someone has to PAY for their electricity, Internet connection, repairs, housing etc. Someone has to WRITE and MAINTAIN the code of the Wiki software.

      Yes, obviously. But the point is that they already exceeded their fundraising goal, and had claimed they'd stop with the stupid banners at this point. But they haven't.

      And just FYI, they could go well over a decade on their current cash reserves. In fact, they've got enough money that if they start investing it carefully, they could support themselves just on the interest. But they won't, because dickhead needs another solid gold shark tank for his patio.

    20. Re:Why does anyone donate to Wikipedia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      $2 million/year in hosting fees isn't exactly chump change, and they definitely need to hire good dev ops people to keep one of the busiest sites on the internet running.

      They have $92million in cash assets right now. They could easily go another 10 to 20 years without getting another cent in donations. I think they can afford to cut their December "please pay us before we have to shut down" bullshit off like they said they would.

    21. Re: Why does anyone donate to Wikipedia? by joao.cordeiro · · Score: 1

      I think they have allot more expences then hosting(as i explained above) but even if they do have it all paid for 10 years, i dont mind them asking for more.
      Wikipedia spreads knowledge in a democratic way. It is one of the most important acheavements on the internet. And one of the most important acheavements of our world.
      I have no problem with them being rewarded even to the point of becoming rich.
      Its a F.ing banner, they dont force you to do anything beside having a banner, that banner does not contain malware or bad pictures, it does not jump into your mouse scroll to bait your click. Its just a simple banner..
      Ppl only donate what they want. If its realy that bad to look at it,hey, stop using wikipedia.
      I have never donated to wikipedia, and im not about to. And i dont go cry about when ppl donate.

    22. Re: Why does anyone donate to Wikipedia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      do you mean red-state-values politically correct or old hippie doper politically correct?

    23. Re:Why does anyone donate to Wikipedia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Same deal as the Clinton Foundation. Gaming the charity rating agencies seems almost pathetically easy.

    24. Re:Why does anyone donate to Wikipedia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At their current hosting prices they have enough money to host the site for 50 years, or indefinitely if they just invest the money already donated and pay for the hosting out of interest. Authors receive nothing. But Jimmy still wants more money.

      Well, it seems that next year I can skip a donation.

    25. Re: Why does anyone donate to Wikipedia? by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      A lot of people think "not-for-profit" means you don't make a profit, which is totally false. All it really means is that basically nobody owns it, and any revenue they make above their costs just ends up going to its employees, or alternatively, being dispersed as grants. Given that wikipedia likely doesn't issue grants to anybody, I suspect (though I don't have any salary info) people like Jimmy Wales make a crapload of money off of wikipedia, and thus it would make sense for people like him to continue the fundraiser. Though usually these funds go to the top (i.e. CEO, president.)

      For what it's worth, this is the same crap that PBS and NPR pulls, and somehow or another they get taxpayer funds on top of their donations (Paula Kerger makes $623,233 per year, Kevin Klose makes $1.2 million per year) and their affiliate broadcasters make a decent amount too (Jonathan Abbott of WGBH makes $425,000 a year.)

      Though in Wikipedia's defense, the editors are voluntarily giving up resources so wikipedia can get rich. In PBS/NPRs case, many people are forced to give resources to them and basically have no say in the matter.

    26. Re: Why does anyone donate to Wikipedia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure not many people really think that.

      Of course like any company given a metric fuckton of free money with no strings attached, they go and spend the fuck out of it and beg for more each year.

      2016 Expenses:
      Salaries and wages 31,713,961
      Awards and grants 11,354,612
      Internet hosting 2,069,572
      In-kind service expenses 1,065,523
      Donations processing expenses 3,604,682
      Professional service expenses 6,033,172
      Other operating expenses 4,777,203
      Travel and conferences 2,296,592
      Depreciation and amortization 2,720,835
      Special event expense, net 311,313
      Total expenses 65,947,465

    27. Re: Why does anyone donate to Wikipedia? by Raenex · · Score: 1

      All it really means is that basically nobody owns it, and any revenue they make above their costs just ends up going to its employees, or alternatively, being dispersed as grants.

      Not quite. Employee compensation should be "reasonable".

  3. Would be great if they hired professional editors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A professional admin team would largely eliminate many of the problems Wikipedia has with its various cabals.

  4. The reason they keep raising money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    is to have a buffer, and not live "paycheck to paycheck" so to speak. I don't understand why people find it so hard to understand.

    1. Re:The reason they keep raising money by AuMatar · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well if the summary is to be believed, they have 45x their yearly costs. That's a bit more than protection from swings in donations.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    2. Re:The reason they keep raising money by spikenerd · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Is this the math you used? $92M (net assets) / $2M (internet hosting) = 46x, then round down to 45x. I think "net assets" includes things that are not easily spent, like servers, and is not the same as "cash savings". I also suspect that "internet hosting" is not equal to "operating costs". Therefore, I really have no idea how far off your figure may be. (Not your fault--the summary lacks the details necessary to support its claims.)

    3. Re: The reason they keep raising money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forgot to put the revenue of $82 million. But I bet you did that on purpose.

    4. Re:The reason they keep raising money by DerekLyons · · Score: 2, Informative

      The last time I looked they had something like a decades worth of "buffer" on hand - yet, each year they breathlessly push the donation campaign as if the lights were going to go out if you didn't donate promptly. This year, as per usual, even though they've met their target - the breathless "donate or Wikipedia dies" continues apace.

      That is what people are having a problem with - not with them raising money, but with their misleading tactics.

    5. Re: The reason they keep raising money by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 2

      Revenue isn't a useful measure on its own. They spend $2M on hosting and $82M on something else--possibly on replacing aging assets like servers in a colocated hosting strategy. What you want is net profits and expenses in total.

    6. Re:The reason they keep raising money by Steve+Hamlin · · Score: 5, Informative

      $78.5 million of the $92 million of net assets are cash and short-term financial investments.

      2016 Donations & Revenue (gross inflows)
      $ 82 million

      2016 Expenses (selected):

      $ 32 million - Salaries
      $ 11 million - Awards & Grants
      $ 6 million - Professional Services
      $ 4.8 million - Other Operating Expenses
      $ 3.6 million - Donation Processing Expenses
      $ 2.6 million - Travel, Conferences & Special Events
      $ 2.0 million - Internet Hosting

      2016 "Net Income" (increase in unrestricted net assets)
      $ 15 million

      See for yourself: https://upload.wikimedia.org/w...

    7. Re: The reason they keep raising money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The bulk of the $92 million is cash. Can't you be bothered to read the articles your pontificating on?

    8. Re:The reason they keep raising money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      $78.5 million of the $92 million of net assets are cash and short-term financial investments.

      2016 Donations & Revenue (gross inflows) $ 82 million

      2016 Expenses (selected): $ 32 million - Salaries $ 11 million - Awards & Grants $ 6 million - Professional Services $ 4.8 million - Other Operating Expenses $ 3.6 million - Donation Processing Expenses $ 2.6 million - Travel, Conferences & Special Events $ 2.0 million - Internet Hosting

      2016 "Net Income" (increase in unrestricted net assets) $ 15 million

      See for yourself: https://upload.wikimedia.org/w...

      So, their real annual expenses are $16.4M per year, once you take out Travel, Salaries, and Awards & Grants.
      $32M in SALARIES? to who?

    9. Re:The reason they keep raising money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A grand wizard that maintains the servers.

      I hear his beard is so long that it passes a time zone.
      That's sort of growth requires maintenance on its own.

    10. Re:The reason they keep raising money by lgw · · Score: 4, Interesting

      $32M in SALARIES? to who?

      It's the Jimmy Wales Junket Fund. Compare the cost structure for an Adam Sandler movie - quite similar.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    11. Re:The reason they keep raising money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They don't have decades worth of buffer. You haven't taken all the expenses into account. (there are more expenses than just paying for hosting and bandwidth)

    12. Re:The reason they keep raising money by plover · · Score: 4, Interesting

      $32M in SALARIES? to who?

      Last time I heard, Wikipedia had about 200 employees (over 100 technical positions), and that figure may or may not have included people working for the wikimedia foundation. If not, that averages to about $160k each.

      --
      John
    13. Re:The reason they keep raising money by frovingslosh · · Score: 1

      is to have a buffer, and not live "paycheck to paycheck" so to speak. I don't understand why people find it so hard to understand.

      Maybe it is because some of us have actually looked at the numbers and are hard pressed to understand where the money is going and has already gone. The money on hand keeps building and the costs just don't seem to justify this much fund raising, let alone continued fund raising after the stated goal is reached. But yes, I do understand if you don't look at the numbers and don't do the math how you could think that way.

      --
      I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
    14. Re:The reason they keep raising money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      $32M in SALARIES? to who?

      Last time I heard, Wikipedia had about 200 employees (over 100 technical positions), and that figure may or may not have included people working for the wikimedia foundation. If not, that averages to about $160k each.

      And for regular employees, divide that by about 2.5 for overhead.

    15. Re:The reason they keep raising money by drsquare · · Score: 1

      So, donate to wikipedia to let them go on holidays, give money to causes (instead of just giving it directly yourself), and $32 million on salaries whilst the people actually providing the content get nothing?

    16. Re:The reason they keep raising money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also $160k each has to include healthcare and other benefits. Time it's all said and done avg salary is probably about $100k.

    17. Re:The reason they keep raising money by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Perhaps someone should point it out in the Wikipedia entry on Wikipedia/media?

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  5. Money Trail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So where does all of the money go??

    1. Re:Money Trail by rudy_wayne · · Score: 4, Interesting

      So where does all of the money go??

      200+ employees, who do nothing of value.

      Expensive office space in San Francisco.

      Giving away money in the form of "grants" which produce nothing of value.

    2. Re:Money Trail by ilsaloving · · Score: 2

      I don't know what medications you're on, but I think you forgot to take them.

    3. Re: Money Trail by joao.cordeiro · · Score: 2

      Well, when i enter the url of wikipedia it works. Dispite all the hackers, trolls, law trolls, dictators contantly attacking it. Some times my windows does not work, but wikipedia works. That has to have some value.

    4. Re:Money Trail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Disclaimer: I work at the WMF.

      Most of the employees (especially the technical staff, which is the bulk of it) work remotely from home in lower cost-of-living areas. They're mostly underpaid by industry standards.

      The technical employees do a wide range of useful things; operating a site at vast scale for a non-profit is non-trivial. The wikipedia project servers average 100,000 HTTP transactions per second globally (from the public, not counting internal stuff). They're also dealing with routine upgrades, software feature improvement, ever-evolving browser/device/application compatibility, DDoS prevention when some script kiddie gets mad at the contents of a controversial article, security and privacy threats to the userbase, network outages, hardware failures on over 1000 servers in 6 geographic locations, etc. Stepping outside of the technical staff, there's also a Legal department dealing with copyright issues and lawsuits (including an ongoing legal battle with the NSA!) and all of the usual trappings of any organization at this scale (executives, HR, Finance, Travel, etc). The foundation also organizes multiple annual conferences for the community of editors and readers, and yes they fund research grants on Wikipedia-related topics. I'm not going to claim everything is perfect, but overall the foundation runs a pretty tight ship, and does a lot with relatively-little funding given the tasks at hand.

    5. Re: Money Trail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow so... where does the rest of the money go, then?

    6. Re: Money Trail by thekohser · · Score: 1

      Even if they are reliable at serving up content, it's still content that is highly suspect in terms of accuracy. One systematic survey of vandalism showed the thoughtfully-formatted vandalism will last at least for weeks, over 60% of the time: http://wikipediocracy.com/2015...

    7. Re: Money Trail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't tell if this is satire or if you legitimately have schizophrenia

    8. Re:Money Trail by cats-paw · · Score: 1

      I wonder if you do anything of value ?

      I mean other than making unsubstantiated claims as to how others do nothing of value.

      oh wait, that doesn't have any value...

      --
      Absolute statements are never true
    9. Re: Money Trail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What part didn't you get about "lawyers"?

      So it's not $160k per employee, it's more like $50k (guessing) per actual worker and then fucking lawyers get the Lions share.

      I think legal shit should be broken down so people can properly aim their disgust.

  6. The Register... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So the internet's cesspit of ill researched unfounded disinformation is pissed that one of the most successful projects of the last decade in advancing human knowledge has a healthy monetary buffer?

    I sense jealousy.

    But fair play to The Register, I frankly thought it was dead already, they've done well to keep such a useless publication going even this long.

    1. Re:The Register... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not useless; Wired has pages for its ads; The Reg uses column space for pretty much the same thing.

    2. Re:The Register... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So your not seeing thereg format as ironic then. That would take much of the fun out of it. The style is a piss take of UK gutter press. Laugh. Be happy. That better isn't it.

    3. Re:The Register... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wouldn't say it's all of El Reg. Most of the articles on there are pretty much straight news with a sensationalist headline pasted on top. When you see that name Andrew Orlowski, though, watch out. He's pretty much the resident muckraker, with multiple personal axes to grind.

    4. Re:The Register... by Rovastar · · Score: 1

      "But fair play to The Register, I frankly thought it was dead already, they've done well to keep such a useless publication going even this long."

      Oh the irony posting this on Slashdot!

    5. Re:The Register... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is a "successful project" due to the unpaid contributors to the actual content.

      The money is going to parasites who live off of their work and high-gullibility people like yourself.

      Somebody fork it, please. I'm sure Jimmy will be willing to round-robin the DNS requests. It'll lessen his server costs and further open information for humanity, right? Yeah right.

  7. Misleading by Thelasko · · Score: 5, Informative

    Hosting is not Wikipedia's largest expense. Salaries are. They spent $32 million on salaries. Total expenses were $67 million.

    Even considering all of the expenses, their net income was positive $16 million last year.

    --
    One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
    1. Re:Misleading by OverlordQ · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Salaries doing what? Engineers sure, but where is the rest of that going.

      --
      Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
    2. Re: Misleading by Luthair · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hiring fundraisers... IIRC the person in charge was making 300-400k

    3. Re:Misleading by jmv · · Score: 5, Interesting

      A site like Wikipedia will also need a bunch of lawyers to fight all sorts of trolls, from copyright trolls, to people who don't like what articles say about them.

    4. Re:Misleading by Potor · · Score: 1

      It's like the dream of the modern university administrator: finding a way to pay one's own salary and spending as little as possible on the content you advertise. Universities don't yet have free content, but they're getting close.

    5. Re:Misleading by ElizabethGreene · · Score: 2

      32 million dollars, assuming ~100k average salary, is 320 employees. Wikipedia is the 6th busiest website on the internet.

      Do you think that level of technology runs itself?

    6. Re:Misleading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm going to open up our libel laws so when they write purposely negative and horrible and false articles, we can sue them and win lots of money. We're going to open up those libel laws.

    7. Re:Misleading by ckatko · · Score: 5, Informative

      People commenting are just guessing.

      They used to have ONE or two full-time engineers running the entire site till like... 2008 or so. Then they started hiring TONS of people running the "Foundation" including marketing, events, charity shit, "diversity consultant" hires. Basically, an army of losers who don't do anything productive and spend their time justifying their existence and partying.

      Basically, Wikipedia has become the US college system. A few productive teachers, surrounded by an army of "administrators" and their assistants... and their assistants... and their assistants.

      Hell, check out one of their own projections. Only 35% is engineering. That's pretty much the opposite of "lean" for a company that PRODUCES NO CONTENT.

      https://upload.wikimedia.org/w...

      But don't take my word for it. Check the glass door:

      https://www.glassdoor.com/Revi...

      >This is an organization in crisis. It is highly dysfunctional, there is a strong culture of secrecy, which is surprising for an organization working in open knowledge. Teams are siloed and isolated, C-levels disagree on direction, ED has lost the support needed to do her job, BoT is in a freeze and too weak to drive change. It is a toxic and depressing place to work.

      >Bureaucracy and secrecy creeps in unless regularly checked. Our Board sometimes wants us to be a venture-style tech company rather than a knowledge-empowerment nonprofit. Community consultation adds a layer of complexity to every new venture (but its worth it!).

      >PHP. Low pay. Fear of changes. Top management has almost completely flipped since Lila took over in 2015. (including bosses who have come and gone since then) It's really tough to get work done when your boss keeps changing.

      >Many mid-level managers are inexperienced and have trouble supporting their employees. Overall lack of strategy and lack of will to make positive change. The communication can be disrespectful. The foundation values diversity but fails to make it one of their own priorities.

      >Politics! Politics! Politics! Performance review process outdated.

      >Tolerance of non performers, Hostile behaviors by some staff threaten continued diversity/innovation.

    8. Re:Misleading by OverlordQ · · Score: 3, Insightful

      For the most part yes. The WMF stack isn't all that complex.

      --
      Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
    9. Re:Misleading by Desler · · Score: 1

      Yes. If it's not largely automated then they have an incompetent sysadmin team.

    10. Re:Misleading by Jurrasic · · Score: 1

      Frankly, yes. It's a Wiki. A type of 'user editable' database so easy to administer that individuals set them up for damn near everything. The money brought in is in massive excess of their needs to administer the site and the foundation.

      --
      Devil bunnies! I snort the nose! Lucifer! Banana! Banana!
    11. Re: Misleading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then you are entirely naeve. Hosting is a minuscule part of running a successful web site.

      I can't even imagine the legal costs for something that represents a bastion of free speech on the earth. Just look at what happpened with Virgin Killer

    12. Re:Misleading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One thing this is really cool about the WMF stack is that not only is it highly automated, they publish their automation: https://github.com/wikimedia/operations-puppet

    13. Re: Misleading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then you are entirely naeve.

      They are entirely a spot or blemish? Da fuq?!?

    14. Re:Misleading by Desler · · Score: 1

      Of course it is. The claim of the GGP is silly.

    15. Re:Misleading by ElizabethGreene · · Score: 2

      The WMF stack is one tiny piece of the equation.

      Think about the servers, storage, network, and physical plant infrastructure required to manage a site of this size. The people managing them need workstations and email; that requires corporate IT. Someone has to buy that stuff, requiring purchasing staff. Those people want to get paid, so accounting and human resources teams. There are also legal, public relations, and fundraising teams too.

      If Wikipedia was a for-profit company they'd have a valuation in the billions. If they manage to do it for 95 million it's a bargain.

    16. Re:Misleading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Old game i played has a wiki with 26000 articles. Pretty sure no one spent that kind of money if any on it, it can't be that expensive. I'd be surprised at an investment more than a thousand.

    17. Re:Misleading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The ones individuals set up don't handle 100K requests/sec around the clock from all over the globe with hundreds of millions of unique visitors, etc, etc.

    18. Re:Misleading by Cramer · · Score: 1

      Do you think that level of technology runs itself?

      Of course not. Do you think all the people that make the place work get paid? (answer: not remotely!)

    19. Re: Misleading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      According to published figures, their total costs for professional services (of which legal is one) is $6 million this year.

    20. Re:Misleading by ckoerner · · Score: 1

      Losers? That's hurtful and unconstructive, making the rest of your argument hard to hold as being rationale and well-informed. Like you're just guessing. Since I work at the foundation (but to be clear, I do not speak for the entire organization) I can say that your links do not reflect the effort, skills, and talent of the individuals I work with, nor the much improved communication and leadership in the last few months.

    21. Re:Misleading by ckatko · · Score: 1

      You apparently care more about feelings than pages of criticism. (Since you neglected to refute any of the glass door reviews.)

      Now you know why people hate it there.

      And "last few months"? Good lord. If your only saving grace for a 15-year old company is "last few months it got better" you ain't got much.

      You also didn't address my core issue. That the majority of people there are non-essential. Wikipedia doesn't even create content, they only serve other people's hard work. At the very least, since it's their only "real" mission, serving wiki pages, they should reflect that understanding and hire more engineers as a percentage than any other profession. Doing the opposite is a clear indicator of a "fat company."

      If I ran restaurants and I wasn't hiring more chefs, dish washers, and waiters/waitresses than administrators, I'd be a failure.

  8. I am not going to complain by supernova87a · · Score: 5, Insightful

    For the amount of good that this foundation does for the public, making information and truth more accessible, and policing the content in an open and rigorous way, I say let them collect as much donations as people willingly donate. It's hard enough to get people to donate -- who would refuse if the donations kept coming in.

    Sure, be transparent and honest about when you've exceeded the goal for the month (or set the goal higher), but frankly, I don't understand why you would criticize when one of the most valuable services on the internet today attempts to build more of a financial cushion for itself (and not through lying or deception or serving up users / others' content for cash, how refreshing).

    Learn to understand who are your friends and who are your enemies in this world, people.

    1. Re:I am not going to complain by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1, Troll

      They're not building up a financial cushion. They're going to steal the money later in the usual way: paying for services they don't need. If you think Wikipedia is somehow above greed because of reasons, they're human. Humans suck. Don't be naive.

      One of the reasons a vow of poverty is so powerful and gives so much moral credibility is because you put your money where your mouth is. It doesn't mean live in poverty, it just means live according to what you need. After all, when need arises the good people won't let you down. Instead Wikipedia is just building up a big pile of money, which stinks. Money is like manure, you have to spread it around to do any good.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    2. Re:I am not going to complain by LunaticTippy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Money is like manure, you have to spread it around to do any good.

      What a strange expression. Money is like manure, you need to pile it all up in a big heap and leave it there for about a year, turning it occasionally with a pitchfork before you can add it to your soil. Add about 1-2 inches of this aged money and work it into the soil to increase yields.

      If you add fresh money, generally referred to as "hot money" you can burn the roots of your plants because it contains too much immediately released nitrogen.

      --
      Man, you really need that seminar!
    3. Re:I am not going to complain by irrational_design · · Score: 1

      "making information and truth more accessible, and policing the content in an open and rigorous way" I sure hope you are being sarcastic.

    4. Re:I am not going to complain by loonycyborg · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If wikipedia becomes a money sink it may compromise its mission. Overfunding is as bad as underfunding since it leads to inefficiency and waste. If they get more donations than their current organizational structure can make use of they should consider re-donating excess to other charities.

    5. Re:I am not going to complain by pla · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A few weeks ago, Jimmy Wales promised that the Wikimedia Foundation would "stop the fundraiser if enough money were raised in shorter than the planned time".

      who would refuse if the donations kept coming in.

      Anyone that actually values honesty?

    6. Re:I am not going to complain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How about setting up an endowment, then never running fund-raising campaigns again?

    7. Re:I am not going to complain by rudy_wayne · · Score: 1

      making information and truth more accessible, and policing the content in an open and rigorous way,

      Except, none of the money they take in is used for that. All the actual work that makes Wikipedia useful is done by unpaid volunteers. All of the money -- more than $60 Million a year -- is wasted on unnecessary bullshit.

    8. Re:I am not going to complain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Learn to understand who are your friends and who are your enemies

      Right after you learn to understand word order.

    9. Re:I am not going to complain by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      The problem is they don't just build up a reasonable financial cusion and then stop begging.

      Instead they use that financial cusion as an excuse to expand the operation, way beyond what is actually needed to run the site. Pretty soon they are running short on cash again and have to intensify the begging campaign even more.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    10. Re:I am not going to complain by cryptizard · · Score: 0

      Really good and informative post here. Glad you made it.

    11. Re:I am not going to complain by slack_justyb · · Score: 1

      Humans suck. Don't be naive.

      Humans tend to over simplify complex topics (insert sith/absolutes parallel). Don't be so cynical though.

    12. Re:I am not going to complain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Same.

    13. Re:I am not going to complain by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Please give a full breakdown of the unnecessary bullshit and how Wikipedia can function without it and achieve the same goals.

    14. Re:I am not going to complain by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1, Troll

      You mean like running the site in 47 languages, including a Simple English Wikipedia, and having administrators who at least make sure the site is tended and not being hijacked by morontards?

    15. Re: I am not going to complain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Humans can also over complicate simple things.

    16. Re:I am not going to complain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If you add fresh money, generally referred to as "hot money" you can burn the roots of your plants because it contains too much immediately released nitrogen.

      Ah, the number of companies I've seen implode after being funded!

    17. Re: I am not going to complain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Much of wikipedia is already hijacked by tards: they are the self-designated "owners" of a given page. You will -not- be allowed to correct obviously wrong material.

    18. Re:I am not going to complain by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      All the actual work that makes Wikipedia useful is done by unpaid volunteers.

      Unpaid volunteers are administering their servers?

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    19. Re:I am not going to complain by Grishnakh · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's already been established that hosting only costs them about $2M/year. A few administrators are not adding much to that. They're not spending tons of money on new development here; the Wiki software hasn't changed significantly in ages. Running the site in lots of languages doesn't cost anything except hosting space (again, accounted for in the $2M/year figure). They're not paying anyone to actually do good translations, as they rely on unpaid volunteers to do that kind of stuff.

      Honestly, if they did employ a dozen or so people to do really good translations between articles in major languages, I'd be all for that. But they're not.

      What they're doing is outsourcing almost all the really important work (writing/tending articles, preventing it from being hijacked by "morontards" through bad edits, etc.) to unpaid volunteers instead of paid professionals, and then hiring a bunch of people to do bullshit work for their "foundation". Wikipedia's original, core mission is good and worthy: provide a website to act as an online encyclopaedia so that people can freely learn about just about any topic imaginable, with the goal of the information being as unbiased as possible as well as being properly cited. This is truly a great thing. But these donations, by and large, aren't paying for this mission. The organization has suffered a colossal amount of "mission creep", and worse, the core functions are handled by unpaid volunteers, who frequently have their own agendas or egotistical reasons for doing the jobs they do (leading to less than biased results in the articles because someone in a position of power wants to maintain control instead of simply doing an unbiased job of editing).

    20. Re:I am not going to complain by vel-ex-tech · · Score: 0

      It's all those transSEXuals raping little girls in the women's rooms of pizza places. Just shoot transSEXuals, then political correctness will be over and Wikipedia will be great again.

    21. Re:I am not going to complain by thomn8r · · Score: 1
      Ah, the number of companies I've seen implode after being funded!

      To extend the analogy, notice how people who suddenly come into a lot of money tend to get themselves in trouble, whereas "old money" is generally better behaved.

    22. Re:I am not going to complain by thomn8r · · Score: 1

      ^this. They will figure out how to blow the money, and then will have to ask for even more.

    23. Re:I am not going to complain by cyn1c77 · · Score: 1

      For the amount of good that this foundation does for the public, making information and truth more accessible, and policing the content in an open and rigorous way, I say let them collect as much donations as people willingly donate. It's hard enough to get people to donate -- who would refuse if the donations kept coming in.

      Sure, be transparent and honest about when you've exceeded the goal for the month (or set the goal higher), but frankly, I don't understand why you would criticize when one of the most valuable services on the internet today attempts to build more of a financial cushion for itself (and not through lying or deception or serving up users / others' content for cash, how refreshing).

      Learn to understand who are your friends and who are your enemies in this world, people.

      All the criticism is not directed against the core content of Wikipedia, but rather expressing concern that none of the donations are going to support that content.

      Preventing parasitic growth within an organization is important to keep it healthy. From the financials, it looks like Wikipedia is experiencing parasitic growth not relevant to their core mission. (I say this as someone who has donated in the past, until I noticed this trend.) One way supporters can affect change is to stop donating and send feedback as to why they stopped.

      Also, if you look at the financials listed in the earlier posts, you will see that very little of their donations go to financial cushion. At least 70% are being spent on peripheral activities that, quite frankly, are not clearly disclosed on their donations request popup, which indicates that donations are needed to prevent advertising. This comes across as a bit shady when you dig into it... they don't need donations to prevent advertising, they need it to fund grants, conference travel, and salaries for $32M worth of people who do not manage the content.

    24. Re: I am not going to complain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like you have it all figured out. You could make millions by forking it and running it better. Why haven't you done that?

      Is it because you are full of shit?

      I think it might be so.

    25. Re:I am not going to complain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I contributed (about what I'd pay for a cheap textbook) since I find Wikipedia extremely valuable. I don't really care what's going on in the background. All I see is the result. My seemingly zillions of years experience in private industry has demonstrated to me that results are not cheap.

    26. Re:I am not going to complain by Pharmboy · · Score: 1

      Speaking as someone who has been involved over a decade as an active admin, the main office is drunk with power and cash. They have deleted many of the photos showing Gardner waving around wads of cash, which were very crass photos to begin with. Volunteers are treated like second class citizens unless you are in the inner circle. How they do fund raising and the way they blow money on "feel good, tree hugging" type events is disgraceful.

      --
      Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
    27. Re:I am not going to complain by ElizabethGreene · · Score: 1

      >> Honestly, if they did employ a dozen or so people to do really good translations between articles in major languages, I'd be all for that. But they're not.

      They are working with duolingo.com to do this. The translations, individually, aren't great but duolingo spins an army of drones across them until you have good content.

      >> It's already been established that hosting only costs them about $2M/year. A few administrators are not adding much to that.

      One does not run the 6th busiest site on the internet with "a few administrators." There are developers, QA, deployment engineers, support engineers, huge network infrastructure, server engineers, corporate it to support all of that, and accounting, HR, and legal to support that. An enterprise of this size is non-trivial.

      Looking at it another way, Wikipedia is #7 on the list of busiest sites on the internet. Twitter is #8. Do you think twitter runs on 95m/year?

    28. Re:I am not going to complain by drsquare · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure they could live without the 'grants and awards', or all the free jollies to events and conferences.

    29. Re:I am not going to complain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While most articles are good, anything that can be vaguely politicised veers off towards media sources that support the narrative of the editors that act as gatekeepers for certain subjects. Have you read their GamerGate article? It's about as far from truth as you can get.

      They're being criticised because they lied.

    30. Re:I am not going to complain by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      I'm not saying "a few administrators" are costing them anything; I'm saying there are other expenses besides hosting, and we don't practically know what. Wikipedia could be hosting colocated servers--lots of colocated servers--getting swapped out a lot.

      Wikipedia has 300 servers in Florida and 44 in Amsterdam running Ubuntu Linux clusters. That's not a one-administrator job to begin with; and there's a ton of expert knowledge required:

      • Sysadmins who are specialized in cluster administration (I've done this; we should have actually hired a consultant to help design the cluster and train me on how the fucking things work, because it was a potato-grade disaster to string it together from bits of shit off Google);
      • Database administration (I've set up a MySQL cluster; I don't know how it works or how to fix it when it's out of sync now, and we got dedicated DBAs to replace it with something better. I can actually manage a MongoDB cluster competently, though, for what that's worth);
      • Network engineers (because putting clusters and databases together requires more than just plugging the cables into a switch on the same segment--I've worked in businesses that ran that way and eventually faced enough self-destructive failure to pay millions to have the network torn apart and reassembled);
      • Storage administrators (because reading the FreeNAS installation manual doesn't actually qualify you to engineer a storage solution based on need and expected load);
      • Security engineers (because we all want to hack Wikipedia and fill it with dick pics and Paypal scams);
      • System administrators (who know how to keep your shit running, keep it patched, and otherwise implement the things that we've decided to have done);
      • Systems architects (because we have dozens of moving components requiring specialized knowledge, and somebody has to bring all that together to work out what pieces to assemble);
      • Project managers (because the work has to actually get done, instead of having pieces of the work get done while balls get dropped)

      For some of these, you'll need multiple at the scale of Wikipedia. One sysadmin might have a little trouble administrating 350 servers in two countries; or he might not, but then you have different needs for your reverse proxies, storage back-end clusters, software environments, and so forth, and an all-purpose Sysadmin isn't as good as someone who's got application-side clustering and someone who's got system-side clustering. This is the same reason you have psychiatrists and neurosurgeons, even though both have a lot of the same overlapping knowledge about neurological disorders.

      So right there we've got around $700,000-$1,300,000 for one of each, in salaries. Let's not forget that benefits are 25%-40% of wages in the United States, so you could be looking at an extra $175,000-$325,000 there. Then you have your 6.22% payroll taxes and other minor things. You're looking at around $1.7 million for each set of one of each of the above; with an average of three of each, that's $5 million.

      Then, you spend $2 million on the hosting connections.

      Then, you have HR, you have accounting, you have legal, you have corporate organization. You have your firm expenses--servers get old, hard drives die. You have electricity and utilities for your offices, although a hosting provider giving a colocation facility should incorporate power costs into hosting costs for your actual data centers.

      These costs grow over time. As Wikipedia gets more traffic, they need more servers, incurring more expenses to maintain hardware. As they get more servers, they need more administrators to keep it all running. When they get enough employees, they need to pay additional per-employee to cover regulations such as healthcare under the ACA and unemployment insurance.

      The WMF had $29 million of expenses in FY2012.

      They're doing a bunch of bullshit work keeping servers up when, I guess, we could just host it on a TOR onion node or Freenet from someone's home PC.

    31. Re:I am not going to complain by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      They could; and does that make up a significant fraction of their expenses?

      That was the point of a breakdown of expenses. I usually have this trouble with CEO salary arguments: CEOs typically make around $20-$50 per employee per year, and giving the entire executive management cash compensation (bonuses, dividends, salaries) to the employees would let everyone take an extra trip to Starbucks every week or three. Pretty much all the money is going to employee salaries.

      I would not assert that Wikimedia's grants and awards or conference travel expenses comprise a large portion of their expenses without some numbers on how much they spend on that kind of thing. It could--start-ups are frequently so poor at managing their finances--but it's unlikely.

    32. Re:I am not going to complain by drsquare · · Score: 1

      Fine, but if you want to give away millions in grants and executive 'compensation', don't continually beg for donations. Strip every last bit of non-essential spending before you go bucket in hand.

    33. Re:I am not going to complain by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      They're a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization and are legally-obligated to not retain profit above what they can justify. That means they have to maintain stable cash flow to continue to operate but also eliminate excess cash stores when that cash flow is higher than needed.

  9. Sounds like all too many "charities". . . by Salgak1 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    . . . . .where, if you're lucky, 10-15% of proceeds actually go to the cause. . . .

    1. Re:Sounds like all too many "charities". . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And I found out the hard way - after donating in the past - that they spend that "extra" 80% on buying "services" and articles primarily from left wing think tanks.

      No thank you. Never again will I donate.

    2. Re:Sounds like all too many "charities". . . by speedplane · · Score: 0

      . . . . .where, if you're lucky, 10-15% of proceeds actually go to the cause. . . .

      What? In this case, the cause is wikipedia, so 100% of the proceeds go to the cause. There's no middleman here.

      --
      Fast Federal Court and I.T.C. updates
    3. Re: Sounds like all too many "charities". . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No the cause is Jimmys pocket.

    4. Re:Sounds like all too many "charities". . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "The cause" is the creation of good content. Wikipedia employees have very little to do with that.

    5. Re:Sounds like all too many "charities". . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We live in a capitalist system. Why would we expect charities to operate by different rules?

      We know for a fact that marketing and other such overhead is essential for growing brands. Yet we criticize charities when their overhead exceeds a certain, low percentage of their income.

      10-15% going to a cause is better than nothing. And if the other 85-90% goes to effective marketing and hiring well qualified talent then that 10-15% is going to be drawn from a much larger base.

      Obviously, if we could somehow magically make 100% of the money go to the cause and, at the same time, have that money *applied* properly, that would be great. But that is not the system we have built. It is unrealistic to expect an organization operating in a capitalist system to not operate by capitalist rules.

    6. Re: Sounds like all too many "charities". . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The cause you nimrod. The cause is providing a freely editable online encyclopedia. Hiring a diversity officer does not contribute to the cause. Jimmy Wales' steak dinner does not contribute to the cause. See the difference?

    7. Re:Sounds like all too many "charities". . . by Grishnakh · · Score: 3, Insightful

      WTF?

      Why does Wikipedia need any "marketing" at all? Anyone who knows anything about the internet has heard of Wikipedia by now. This is like claiming that Google needs marketing for their search engine. If you haven't heard of Google Search or Wikipedia by now, no amount of marketing is going to help; you're probably not even using the internet.

      I don't see how it's unrealistic to expect an extremely well-established charity organization to concentrate its efforts on its core mission and not a bunch of unnecessary BS like marketing.

    8. Re:Sounds like all too many "charities". . . by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      . . . . .where, if you're lucky, 10-15% of proceeds actually go to the cause. . . .

      This is why you ask the question when someone asks you to donate.

      I don't know if this is still a thing (since Caller ID and do-not-call lists may have killed it), but 10-20 years ago a lot of charitable organizations were in the habit of outsourcing their fundraising to companies whose only job was to raise money for charitable organizations. And, if you did the work (which I did) to find out how much of what they were collecting ended up going to the charity, it would turn out to be alarmingly little (it varied, but ran anywhere from 5% to 33%).

      A lot of people use this as an ersatz justification not to give to anyone, ever; but basically that's just a thinly veiled excuse for being selfish. A better choice is to bypass the fundraisers and find a way to give directly to the charity in question - or to donate your time.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    9. Re:Sounds like all too many "charities". . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I refuse to donate to a charity if they even use such services. Even if I can donate directly. How do I know my money isn't going to pay for some marketer to fleece other people.

    10. Re:Sounds like all too many "charities". . . by ckoerner · · Score: 1

      This is a very Western view of the Internet (and the world in general). "I've heard of it in my country, so it must be something everyone knows about". I too once shared this view.

      The foundation has done some work on discovering potential readership in non-Western countries.

      https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/New_Readers

      I'll cherry-pick a stat I found amazing. The foundation did research in India. "75% of respondents had never heard of Wikipedia." Only one out of every 4 even knew the name, much less that they could edit a local language version!

      So, there's a little opportunity to improve things in the second most-populated country in the world. :)

      via: https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/i...

      Full disclosure: I work for the Wikimedia Foundation. These comments are my own and I do not speak for the Foundation.

  10. Wiki-NPR by turkeydance · · Score: 1

    or vice-versa

  11. Not as bad as Firefox fundraising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "We already make millions auctioning off your default search engine, can you please donate some money?"

  12. I am not going to complain about "freeware". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Kind of ironic that an organization who's sources are mostly payware, is demanding money so you can continue to read "freeware".

  13. Good Will by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People will donate because Wikimedia has given them wonderful access to information, images, and other media. My parents bought a rather flawed encyclopedia when I was younger, probably for about $100. That's many hundreds in "today's money," so it only makes sense to support the wiki. P.S. I've contributed several articles and images along with my checks.

  14. Fools support Wikimedia. by Lumpy · · Score: 0

    Sorry but they dont need that kind of cash. Not without having staff that actually do anything.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  15. Trying to build up an endowment by LordNicholas · · Score: 5, Informative
    Per their financial statements, they're trying to build up an endowment (like a university and many other large non-profits) so they can support themselves off investment income, and not need to rely as much on direct donations. Those incremental donations after the fundraising goal is reached are even more valuable since they can go directly towards growing the endowment.

    During the year ended June 30, 2016, the Foundation entered into an agreement with the Tides Foundation to establish the Wikimedia Endowment as a Collective Action Fund to act as a permanent safekeeping fund to generate income to ensure a base level of support for the Wikimedia projects in perpetuity. The Endowment is independent from the Foundation. On June 29, 2016, the Foundation provided an irrevocable grant in the amount of $5 million to the Tides Foundation for the purpose of the Wikimedia Endowment. The amount is recorded in awards and grants expense.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/w...

    1. Re:Trying to build up an endowment by careysub · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Thanks for citing their marketing material. Every nonprofit-for-profit has "reasons" why they need all the money the solicit. But you need to peek behind the curtain to see if "reasons" are supported by actual data. It isn't hard.

      We can look at the exploding spending at Wikimedia.

      And there are very serious questions about all that money being rushed out the door, who it is going to and why. There is a high level of self-dealing in passing out grants, and creating and filling the ballooning list of paid positions. It is very lucrative to be a "friend-of-Jimmy".

      A glance at the financials shows that "building an endowment" is NOT the reason for the incessant fund-raising. First, the endowment was only launched this year , and their stated plan is to use only 10-20% of their fundraising revenue for that endowment. Currently they seem to be at the low end of that number (or below it) but we will need to see a report on 2016 to see the actual break-out. The goal of the endowment is to reach $100 million, but in their last annual foundation report (a 28 page advertising pamphlet with only one page of actual information) they state having $78 million in net assets as of 18 months ago, which is an increase of $25 million from the previous year report (almost all of it unrestricted).

      If we assume that the net assets are only accumulating at the same rate as from June 2014 to June 2015 (by all data it is probably higher, much higher), then right now they have about $115 million in assets, more than enough to fully fund their foundation with soliciting a penny (they received at least $6 million in designated donations to the foundation when they set it up, so they no more than $94 million to make up to reach their stated goal.

      So no. The foundation has nothing to do with their aggressive, relentless fund-raising.

      --
      Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
    2. Re:Trying to build up an endowment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Thanks for citing their marketing material.

      The catch-phrase for 2016 is "Crying wolf." Cut it out.

      That shit got us Trump who is dedicated to tearing down the institutions of civil society.

      Its easy to nit-pick, especially for people who have, at best, a half-assed understanding of what they are criticizing.

      Come back when you are ready to argue in good faith rather than just hysterical misrepresentation because you are not helping.

    3. Re:Trying to build up an endowment by careysub · · Score: 2

      Wow, what a piece of content-less name-calling non-sequitur by a coward. Low even for an AC.

      I provided plenty of documentation and links showing that the claiming it is "because of the endowment" is lie, pure and simple. The numbers don't lie. Wikpedia hype and ACs, well not so much.

      Come back when are willing to argue facts with an actual bit /. identifier coward.

      --
      Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
    4. Re:Trying to build up an endowment by Cramer · · Score: 1

      This is all a shell game with non-taxed money, because they're supposed to be a non-profit.

  16. Not a major faux-pas by the_skywise · · Score: 1

    I'd prefer not getting the pop-ups now that the goal has been met - but if the money is still flowing in it's dumb of them to not capitalize (heh) on the desire to give to build up a larger buffer (and have fewer fund-raisers in the future).

  17. Re:Would be great if they hired professional edito by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    A professional admin team would largely eliminate many of the problems Wikipedia has with its various cabals.

    Yes it would. But a professional admin team would use up most of the money that is currently going to other people.

    net assets of $92 million and revenue of $82 million. None of this money, incidentally, pays for writing or checking Wikipedia content – that's the job of unpaid volunteers – and only $2 million are spent on internet hosting every year.

    Which is exactly why you should never give money to them.

  18. Scientology needs the scratch by thunderclees · · Score: 1

    No worries, it is just Jimmy Jo Bob and his inner circle trying to pull in a few more bucks. Those Scientology membership fees are steep.

    1. Re:Scientology needs the scratch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you sure "Jimmy Jo Bob" isn't just fixin' to buy a new tractor?

  19. Re: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Their website technology is a joke.

  20. Not a dime by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They can keep asking, but they don't need one dime of my money.

  21. New fundraising director by mattwarden · · Score: 1

    Perhaps Jill Stein is their new fundraising director

  22. The future is in Unpaid Workers. by MindPrison · · Score: 1

    People writing articles - Unpaid.
    People writing scientific papers - Unpaid.
    People doing product reviews and testing - Unpaid.
    Fan groups of products and software, modding stuff - Unpaid.

    One day, everything is UNPAID. Why pay money to you if you're willing to do it for free?

    --
    What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
    1. Re:The future is in Unpaid Workers. by arth1 · · Score: 1

      People writing articles - Unpaid.

      Indeed. I have paid with my contributions, and should be allowed to avoid seeing these obtrusive pop-over banners.

      To me it reads like "we need money, lots of money, to pay the designers of and managers for the fundraising campaign, and banking costs associated with it."

    2. Re:The future is in Unpaid Workers. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The future is in unpaid workers,training their replacements in the fine art of surviving with so little for so long that these people can practically get away with anything, for nothing

  23. Irony? by Jurrasic · · Score: 1

    " Dear readers in Canada, time is running out in 2016 to help Wikipedia. To protect our independence, we'll never run ads. We're sustained by donations averaging about $15. Only a tiny portion of our readers give. If everyone reading this right now gave $3, we wouldn’t need to fundraise for years to come. That's right, the price of a cup of coffee is all we need. If Wikipedia is useful to you, please take one minute to keep it online and growing. Thank you. "

    --
    Devil bunnies! I snort the nose! Lucifer! Banana! Banana!
    1. Re:Irony? by jordanjay29 · · Score: 1

      Only a tiny portion of our readers give. If everyone reading this right now gave $3, we wouldn’t need to fundraise for years to come.

      Odd, I seem to remember them promising the same thing last year, too. It seems the Washington Post remembers as well. I guess if the price hasn't changed, they either are woefully underfunded/overbudgeted (discussed in plenty of comments above but I'm assuming not), are drastically miscalculating for inflation, or it's just pure greed.

    2. Re:Irony? by plover · · Score: 1

      Only a tiny portion of our readers give. If everyone reading this right now gave $3, we wouldn’t need to fundraise for years to come.

      Odd, I seem to remember them promising the same thing last year, too. It seems the Washington Post remembers as well. I guess if the price hasn't changed, they either are woefully underfunded/overbudgeted (discussed in plenty of comments above but I'm assuming not), are drastically miscalculating for inflation, or it's just pure greed.

      Given that their income was $82 million and their annual expenses were $66 million, I think don't think they're miscalculating by too much. That's a buffer of only a quarter-year's worth of expenses. And if they invest that excess money in endowments, they'll have a more stable budget and less need for fundraising.

      Another way to look at it is that it's providing resources to grow. Now, I don't know what or how they might want to grow, but I do know that it's harder to grow when you've got no money for it.

      --
      John
  24. Dead Ringers, milkmen twins edition by epine · · Score: 0

    Basically, Wikipedia has become the US college system.

    Ah yes, the world according to the Lumper King—kneel before my great Rod of Lumpership, and despair. (Midas kneels, and despairs, but in truth, he was pretty unhappy already.)

    Nonsense aside, I do dearly wish there was a way to eliminate all the not-notable endowed chairs from a certain online encyclopedia.

    I really don't need it shoved in my face that some academic is presently the Angela Anais Juana Antolina Rosa Edelmira Nin y Culmell chair of Behaviour Psychology in the Department of Quarterly Expectations Surpassed, Lothlorien Memorial Campus, Big Smoke U, Paris, Texas.

    How I quaver! Shall I kneel and kiss your ring, or merely sit here enraptured and stroke your ermine robe? Decisions, decisions.

    Notable chair: Lucasian Professor of Mathematics. All the others, not so much.

    I desperately wish some enterprising soul would create an article with the title "List of notable named chairs". (Unfortunately, I can't create this myself, because I would list only one, and my "list" would immediately be deleted as a knee high to a discarded lipstick stain.) If anyone out there can think of two other noteworthy named chairs, this is obvious, low-hanging fruit.

    That concludes today's second installment of "One of These Things Is Not Like the Other", with Wikipedia and the college system mentioned in the same breath.

  25. Donating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I donate to Wikipedia regularly, if nothing else, to make sure the server / bandwidth costs are paid.

    When I filled out the survey, I did answer that the banners were not too much. The only other thing I can think of is some kind of graphic that shows where they are on their budget for upcoming costs (kind of like those charity drive thermometer graphics).

  26. Obnoxious Fundraising by supremebob · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Wikipedia's fundraising activities seem to get more obnoxious every year. This year I got a nasty-gram from "Jimmy Wales" asking why I haven't given my annual donation yet.

    I already did, dumb ass, but I submitted it from a different e-mail address this year. But, hey... if you're going to give me an attitude about it, I certainly won't bother donating next year.

    1. Re:Obnoxious Fundraising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I don't mind ads at the top of the page, but as long as they continue to pop shit up in front of me while I'm trying to read an article, they won't get a dime from me.

    2. Re:Obnoxious Fundraising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Every single time I see one of their ads I make a point to further spread news stories like the one here. Another good article:

      https://news.slashdot.org/story/15/05/11/1229222/study-reveals-wikimedia-foundation-is-awash-in-money

  27. Kinda like in app payments by slapout · · Score: 1

    I think Wikipedia just invented a new form of in app payment: pay us money and we'll stop nagging you for money.

    --
    Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
  28. Adblock to the rescue by GuB-42 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Just add this line to the block list of your favorite ad blocker (uBlock origin, ABP, ...)

    wikipedia.org###centralNotice

    It is not included by default because EasyList doesn't consider self-promotion to be advertisement. I do.

    1. Re:Adblock to the rescue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are a couple others if you want to block all their shit, including the one that hides in the middle of an article and the one that descends on the page when you scroll down. These are the patterns I used in uBlock Origin:

      en.wikipedia.org###frbanner-window
      en.wikipedia.org###frbanner3

  29. Why complain? by uvajed_ekil · · Score: 1

    If you don't like Wikipedia or how it raises money, you don't have to use it. How some people are so critical of a free service that no one is forced to use or pay for seems odd when you think about it. Come up with something better.

    --
    This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
    1. Re:Why complain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wikimedia you mean? Wikipedia is free and owned by everyone, you could make a backup yourself and serve it if you want. You could even add your own fullscreen page with multiple pop-up fundraising ads.

    2. Re:Why complain? by thekohser · · Score: 1

      The government that I pay taxes to has exempted this money-making scam as an "educational charity". If the scam artists are getting a tax exemption, while I have to pay full freight to the government, then that frankly gives me the right to do something more than just "don't use it".

  30. Cat got your tongue? (something important seems to by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Hey, super sport cars aren't cheap, and Jimmy Wales likes to buy a new one every week.

  31. Update from Wikimedia Foundation by Andreas+Kolbe · · Score: 1

    Wikimedia have posted an update on the Wikimedia mailing list: https://lists.wikimedia.org/pi...

    "This year, we are happy to report we’ve reached our goal of US$25 million in record time. This is a testament to the importance of Wikimedia and how much support we have from people all over the world. Given this momentum, we believe that it would be wise and worthwhile to continue to fundraise more in the month of December, for the following reasons: [...]

    Here is what we will do: We intend to continue with the banners for a few more days. We would then take them down over the Christmas holiday, before making an end-of-year push in the final couple days of the year. (Many people choose to give at the very end of the year, and they are expecting to hear from us as usual -- so it is an opportunity to give people who plan to give the easiest means to participate)."

    (Follow link for full text of the WMF statement, including their spending rationale.)

  32. Check sources by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The author only mentioned the hosting fees. Total expenses are approx. $53 million (FY2015).

  33. I got an email from Jimmy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Asking to help keep Wikipedia free by donating money. I knew if I had donated any money it would destroy their mission by making it not free! Come on people if we all join together and NOT donate we can help Jimmy with his goal of keeping Wikipedia free!

  34. I don't give a fuck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I give them $5 a year and I feel like I get my $5 worth. I don't give a shit what they do with my $5, as long as it doesn't go to Trump.

  35. Why all the whining? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Christ! I've donated the price of a semi decent bottle wine for access to the greatest coherent body of knowledge ever assembled. The value of this information is truly priceless and yet available to the whole population of the planet. I feel that this is a bit of a bargain and would urge people to think what a poorer place the world would be without this service.

  36. new tech rediscovers old tech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ahh, the old fashioned cronyist, bloated charity. The allure of easy, high salaries corrodes the old and the young. Much like how silicon valley tech CEOs have been searching for cheap employees.

  37. uBlock Origin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Install uBlock Origin; it blocks their begging spam nicely. (You have to manually add it, but it works.)

  38. Ignorance by hackel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    These comments are so full of ignorance it's not even funny—I thought I had wandered into /r/the_donald or something. The few sensible people posting have pointed out that there seems to be an extreme lack of transparency, and no one is quite sure where all the money is going. This is a fair point and needs to be addressed by the Wikimedia Foundation. This does *not* automatically mean that they are somehow wasting this money, giving its employees lavish salaries, or anything of the sort. It means we do not know. No amount of ridiculous theorising will change that. We need to be able to trust our non-profit organizations in general, and such a great, important organization like Wikimedia in particular. Just because we don't know something doesn't make them this evil villain. If we uncover some impropriety, *then* we can demonize them. Until then, I'm making a (small) donation and also demanding more transparency. I encourage others to do the same.

    1. Re:Ignorance by thekohser · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This does *not* automatically mean that they are somehow wasting this money, giving its employees lavish salaries, or anything of the sort. It means we do not know. No amount of ridiculous theorising will change that.

      I'm curious, would you call this known scandal to be "ridiculous theorising"?

      http://wikipediocracy.com/2014...

  39. My donations are rejected by thekohser · · Score: 2

    I'm one of the comparatively few editors of Wikipedia who gets paid for my editing work. It only makes sense that as a "thank you", I should send a token of financial appreciation at fundraising time. Yet, when I try to send the Wikimedia Foundation a donation, they return it to me within the hour.