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President Obama Threatens Retaliatory Actions Against Russia Over Hacks (nytimes.com)
An anonymous reader quotes the New York Times:
[President Obama] said he was weighing a mix of public and covert actions against the Russians in his last 34 days in office, actions that would increase "the costs for them." Mr. Obama said he was committed to sending the Kremlin a message that "we can do stuff to you," but without setting off an escalating cyberconflict... "Some of it we will do in a way that they will know, but not everybody will," he said...
[T]he president was clearly wrestling with what he said the hacking affair and the reaction to it revealed about the state of American politics. Citing a recent poll that showed more than a third of Trump voters saying they approved of Mr. Putin...the president appealed to Americans not to allow partisan hatred and feuds to blind them to manipulation by foreign powers. "Unless that changes," Mr. Obama said, "we're going to continue to be vulnerable to foreign influence because we've lost track of what it is that we're about and what we stand for."
President Obama pulled Putin aside at a September meeting of the G20 to discuss Russian hacking, according to the article, telling Putin "to cut it out, there were going to be serious consequences if he did not."
[T]he president was clearly wrestling with what he said the hacking affair and the reaction to it revealed about the state of American politics. Citing a recent poll that showed more than a third of Trump voters saying they approved of Mr. Putin...the president appealed to Americans not to allow partisan hatred and feuds to blind them to manipulation by foreign powers. "Unless that changes," Mr. Obama said, "we're going to continue to be vulnerable to foreign influence because we've lost track of what it is that we're about and what we stand for."
President Obama pulled Putin aside at a September meeting of the G20 to discuss Russian hacking, according to the article, telling Putin "to cut it out, there were going to be serious consequences if he did not."
It hardly took that long over 9/11. And with evidence just as feeble..
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Can someone explain what exactly was hacked (voting machines?) and what is the evidence that the Russians are responsible?
... and Putin knows it.
Obama is just giving the guy a heads up.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
"Airing our party's dirty laundry crosses a red line, and there will be consequen -- nah, nevermind"
If they are not careful, Obama may be forced to do something drastic, like issue a strongly worded letter of condemnation!
You seem to be confusing two completely different email sets here. Are you confused, or are you just trying to be confusing?
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
There are not even the barest shreds of any proofs about russian influence or wrongdoing. However the allegations all come from proven professional liars and torturers who then steal and kill to hide their wrongdoings. All of the infamous 17 agencies lie pretty much everytime they go public with anything political.
How many russian speakers work at the CIA who can write russian comments? "Rasputin" is now considererd a proof? How many attack servers of the NSA and CIA are located in former soviet republics? Weren't stuxnet servers there too? The CIA/NSA has a lot more reason to do some hacking their own election than Russia: there simply is no reason for Russia to hack cause the conflicts they are in, they are actually winning, unlike the US no matter who wins the election. Also no mather who wins it, the war in the middle east will go on, maybe a little less bloody since the US won't send weapons to Al-Qaeda aka al-Nusra via Saudi Arabia. Russia has realistic goals, and goes rationally to achieve them. The US does not but finances and supports with weapons instead the people they are claiming to fight for the last 15 years.
So if any country wishes to meddle in any election by telling the truth about any sides corruption, I say: more power to them. Even if it is some CIA guy who publicized the campaign emails. I'd be happy if they did the same for the republicans and their campaings, but I guess that hacker there already did a lot for the american public so we can't demand more from him.
The US has meddled in other countries' elections especially their allies, since at least WW2 (Greece, Italy for example), toppled by now probably dozens of governments in clandestine operations and in bloody coups on in middle and southern america alone. So how are they to accuse anyone of doing it? And doing it with the truth instead of bullets like the US customarily does?
And how would that have been done, seeing as the presidential election is effectively 50 separate elections, with different voting technologies? As to Democrat email leaks, it is unclear to me that the Executive branch has ever had an overt role in securing political parties' data.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
No, you don't know that, and once again we see the Clinton Crime Family conspiracy theory put forward. Seth Rich was killed in a robbery, and it took him an hour to die. It wasn't a hit, it was just bad luck.
I do see what fake news really is. It's every fucked up maniac's conspiracy theory somehow rendered legitimate.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
The only reason the emails were newsworthy at all was that the documents revealed information that the DNC and the Clinton campaign were trying to keep secret from the American voters. If the Russians were involved in the leak (and that seems like a pretty big "if" since there doesn't seem to be much evidence), they would only have been giving to the voters information that Clinton should have released on her own. In other words, these disclosures are clearly not “fake news”.
I'll say this one more time: information that the CIA has accused Russia of sharing with the American people is “real news” about newsworthy topics, and given how pathetic the "security" was on the servers it came from, it seems unbelievable that this wouldn't have made the news sooner or later.
Tell me again how they "hacked the election"?
There's no proof because Russia didn't hack the elections. Julian Assange said Russia wasn't the source of the DNC and Podesta leaks, and he's got way more credibility than a partisan politician, even if that politician is the POTUS. Russian hacking = the real #fakenews
It's not his fault, because the media is purposely confusing things. Notice how they always talk about Russia "hacking the election" even though that's not at all what happened. And then when they do talk about what Russia is actually accused of doing, they always just say "emails" to try and conflate Hillary's email server with the Wikileaks dump. It's classic disinformation and if you talk about politics with regular people, it's working: people have just kind of mentally merged Hillary's private email server with the Wikileaks email dump with Russians "hacking the vote" despite the fact that none of them are related and the third never happened.
It's a technique that the Democrats are using to distance themselves from Hillary's historic failure as a candidate, and that the Republicans are more than happy to let them get away with because refusing to acknowledge the truth is only going to lead to a GOP supermajority in 2018 and likely a GOP-controlled Constitutional Convention within the next decade.
But it's not surprising that people are confused about what "Russian hacking" is - the media and the lame duck administration are purposely trying to confuse people.
[...] she made it very clear during the debates that she wanted to start WWIII with Russia.
I didn't realized that we elected Trump to be the new Chamberlian to appease the Russians.
That's OK - they gave us some target practice. That's invaluable training. It's way more fun when the targets go BOOM.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
1) it doesn't matter who's the hacker, if our infrastructure is vulnerable, its vulnerable to anyone. lets worry about fixing that first.
2) fine, retaliate. why is this news? hacking happens every day. remember stuxnet? solution to hacking is better technology NOT better lawyering.
3) nice job wagging-the-dog your way out of actually dealing with the contents of hillary emails. real threat is what happened with Sanders (i'm not his supporter _at all_). it was a scandalous perversion of democracy. Putin (if it was him) did us a great service. i mean us the people, not necessarily certain people in power.
"We can do stuff to you. Butt stuff."
Convincing evidence that Russia intervened in the elections is a valid reason for the electoral college to vote the other way. No one thought of computer hacking when the electoral college was created of course but I would say it translates well. Come to think of it, the FBI director letter could in it self be considered an undue influence on the election.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
US agents were supplying arms to numerous rebel factions. Many of these weapons and rebel groups have joined ISIS. Syria, Libya, and the rapid withdrawal of troops from Iraq represent the worst foreign policy strategy every implemented by the US.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but Trump lost the popular vote. He won the Electoral College vote.
Now, the numbers aren't real impressive in either case, a percentage point or so. No great mandate on either side. But if the American people 'have spoken' they mumbled a lot.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
What a load of horse shit you're shoveling. The election wasn't stolen. Releasing the dirty secrets of the DNC and Hillary's top guy is not stealing an election. So far the only questionable voting numbers are coming from Detroit, where the votes counted from the machines far exceed the number of ballots, and Detroit was heavily Clinton. Wisconsin's recount ended up adding a hundred votes to Trump. Stop reading #fakenews
So if he died in a robbery, why wasn't he robbed? And why did Wikileaks offer a reward for info about his death?
It was a decent strategy. But the strategy was to stalemate the sunnis and shia, Iran/Iraq war style. Not let the shia win. As the Bush admin couldn't say that outloud the Obama admin apparently didn't understand and the Saudis got fixated on Yemen and are facing a cash flow crunch.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
GandWumpus,
You seem to forget that the only times the republicans have won in the last 24 years, they lost the majority vote twice and scraped through by a small margin the third time.
The only way they have been accused of "intervening" so far is by sharing information with the American people is that it was all “real news” about newsworthy topics. Information that we should have a right to know about. AFAIK, they have not been accused of hacking votes or anything along those lines.
the worst foreign policy strategy every implemented by the US.
Because lying about the need to invade and occupy Iraq, destroying the one bulwark which might have existed to stop the spread of ISIS, had nothing to do with any of this, right? That was a fantastic foreign policy issue, right?
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
The amazing thing is Thursday I listened to Julian Assange give a live interview stating categorically that Wikileaks did not receive the emails from any state actor including Russia. It was a DNC insider angry about Clinton Foundation corruption and what happened to Bernie. Not hearing a word of this in the "media".
> Usually thieves take the valuables.
Except when they get spooked and decide its better to GTFO than hang around and risk getting caught for what may only be a couple of bucks.
This jumping to the most nefarious conclusions is standard conspiracy fantasist stuff. In the real world, the banal explanation is the usually the correct one.
"Some of it we will do in a way that they will know, but not everybody will,"
Well, NOT IF YOU TELL THE MEDIA ABOUT IT!!!!
The answer is simple - the whole thing is bogus. Even if Russia were behind it it's nothing compared to what the US, via the CIA, did to their ally Japan. With friends like those, who needs enemies except as a distraction from your own corruption?
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Are you saying 'Anybody I don't like is Hitler' is a good strategy?
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
They won't because it's well documented that the US has interfered in elections all over the world. A quick search turns up dozens of them just since WW2.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Well, I'm not bloody confused, and I think it's a reasonable assumption that Russia wanted to do what it could to prevent Clinton from winning the election, and at least initially has got what it wants; a president who is Russia-friendly and a Secretary of State with pretty deep ties to Russia. We can debate how much influence the Russians really did have, but I'd say the Wikileaks emails did Clinton tangible harm.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Er - Afghanistan was attacked the very night the towers fell. Iraq was NEVER about 9/11.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
If he wasn't unhappy with the DNC, shame on him (and you too).
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Were you alive, then? Because it was a 14-month march to war.
Wow are you confused. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. The Taliban in Afghanistan admitted to hosting and supporting Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda, who were responsible for the 9/11 attacks.
I know we're living in a post factual world where empirical truth doesn't exist. But the fact is that the U.S. led a coaliton of forces against the Taliban in Afghanistan beginning on October 7, 2001. Less than one month after the September 11 attacks.
Ideology: A tool used primarily to avoid the bother of thinking.
oh fuck off. We all know what the poster was referring to, the conspiracy theory that Clinton had Rich assassinated in some sort of gangland-style take down. For fuck's sake, this is exactly what fake news is, where the diseased minds that invent these conspiracy theories suddenly become accepted as being holders of the "real story".
There's no evidence that Rich leaked anything, and there's no evidence that the Clinton's had him killed. These are pure fabrications that have been repeated by the Sanders and Alt-right lunatics so much that they just assume the truth of this particular fantasy.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Besides, Putin is more photogenic than Hillary.
Don't assume that everyones taste in porn is the same as yours.
Ideology: A tool used primarily to avoid the bother of thinking.
Were you alive, then? Because it was a 14-month march to war. Bush made a dozen speeches making his case. Powell did the UN presentation. They got a UN resolution, and two authorizations of force from congress. And EVERY security service on the face of the planet said Saddam had WMDs - including the one you are trusting now about the Russians.
The Iraqi war had nothing to do with 9/11. No one stopped us from going into Afghanistan after 9/11 to take out the Taliban government and Osama bin Laden. If the Bush administration wasn't obsess with Saddam, they wouldn't have let Osama bin Laden escape and started an unnecessary war in Iraq.
Obama can say anything he wants because he won't be around for the consequences.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Who upvotes this stupid bullshit? Nobody knows that the server was 0wned "many, many". And that conspiracy shit about murders is just dumb. Infowars dumb.
I don't respond to AC's.
That's funny. Just last night at his rally Donald Trump said his victory was the "most historic ever", so you might want to check your facts.
You are welcome on my lawn.
If Russia's neighbors aren't so friendly, it might have something to do with the 20th century.
He's crazy, but will be out of office in a month.
Russians aren't suicidal, nukes aren't really on the table. They are much more likely to engineer an 'oil price shock event' in the middle east. If I was in charge of security at Saudi oil processing facilities, I'd double down for the next few years, perhaps triple down.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Er - Afghanistan was attacked the very night the towers fell. Iraq was NEVER about 9/11.
Yeah, right. Tell that to Bush, Cheney, Rove, and millions of Americans. They were wrong, but they MADE Iraq about 9/11.
This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
which turned out to be nothing (hell, I give Hilary bonus points for charging Goldman Sachs millions for those worthless speeches) and ignoring the massive amount of fake news, aka propaganda that their pro trolling organization did. They played us like a fiddle and we let them. Hell, they're still doing it by getting you to focus on worthless "leaks".
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Iraq was about keeping the muslim world busy the traditional way. By restarting the war between its two largest factions. Let them kick the fight out of each other for a century or two. It worked for Christianity. (100 years war, between the catholics and protestants. Only those remote to the fight, Irish/British, missed the point, they got it themselves, eventually.)
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Putin's rear end is more photogenic than Hillary...
MSM "media" is more corrupt and ridiculous than the Soviets or Nazis were -- more spew power, same old s---.
It's a public statement by the guy who got the emails. It's much more than CNN has to back the Obama admins story.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
You have not logic to rebut. Just a self righteous 'shame on you'.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
People associated with the Clintons are prone to bad luck. It's just a coincidence though. The fact that the Clintons always manage to just barely escape going to jail proves they're honest.
He went off to vacation in Hawaii after saying that. Congress isn't even in session. So yeah, he might as well threaten them with a limp noodle.
And even if you somehow believe all of this, the only thing they did was reveal all the corruption: the primaries were rigged, they coordinate with their super PACs, they rigged the debates and then lied about it, Hillary took down every single other Democrat that ran this year via financial means and others, Hillary got funded by Saudi Arabia, Qatar (you remember what they're like from the Olympic slavery scandals, right?) and other distasteful places, they used Clinton Foundation money for Chelsea's wedding and other things I've forgotten and CNN just lies and tells us it's illegal to look.
Even if we assume Putin himself was behind it, I'd have to thank him for exposing the corruption our press seems to be turning a blind eye to. And that's only when they weren't willingly complicit with it. No, I haven't forgotten the "WaPo party" the lawyers were complaining about, Washington Post. All those articles you write and not a damn one about your own involvement here.
You mean that was also Hillary?
...We can debate how much influence the Russians really did have, but I'd say the Wikileaks emails did Clinton tangible harm.
You mean lifting the rock to show a bit of the Democrat underneath?
An actual unbiased press should have done that but didn't.
Peace is easy to achieve, just surrender. Liberty is much harder get/keep.
you are incredibly naive....its like you think politics should be taken at face value
obama isn't retarded. you aren't some sage with one eye above the clouds.
he's managing the people. telling them what they want to hear because they were told to want to hear it. the utterly retarded and insane people who supported of one manufactured political view are becoming dysfunctional to some degree. Statements like this hedge against these people becoming unproductive due to their dissatisfaction with the appearance of their surroundings.
Their emotional/subconscious mind has realized their view of the world is totally insane and false. They need to be put back in line before that realization hits their consciousness
He's prodding the depressed hamsters to get back on the wheel.
Still no logic in your post. Explain why Wikileaks offered a reward of Rich's killer?
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
You don't even know which server we're talking about you dolt. Just go away, take your old talking points back to HuffPost.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Well, he did first defeat the republican establishment and then the democrats. I'm not from the US but I've never seen a candidate that got as little support - even opposition - from his own party.
One can start a "kinetic military action" in 30 days, no problem. Or at least a big lead up, to really try to screw the incoming Administration. What better way to put a wrench in the system than to force the new Administration to start with a brewing war? Gotta do something to try to stop the incoming Administration from undoing your own "signature piece" of work....
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
They KNOW that tinfoil hats are just a conspiracy invented to make it easier to identify the wingnut conspiracy theorists.
That's why they wear INVISIBLE tinfoil hats, made out of transparent aluminum.
BTW did you know that tinfoil hats, invisible or otherwise, act as an echo chamber amplifying and scrambling thoughts (and trapped electromagnetic radiation)?
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
But at least the MSM "media" isn't #FakeNews!
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Tinfoil? Well, if that's all you can afford.
Gold foil is much much better. Whatever you do, don't use Aluminum much less Aluminium.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Obama is detached from America, people living free is a bad example for all the nations controlled by the globalist elite, so if it can't be transformed through a Latino Communist invasion, then a nuclear wasteland is acceptable. His family will of course be evacuated in time, and he will write a best-selling book about the experience.
I guess what we can conclude from all this is that President Bush was smarter and a better salesman than President Obama. After all, he fooled Hillary, Reid, Pelosi, and most of the MSM to support Iraq, and Obama can barely get half the MSM on his side...
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Leaving him to suffer makes it a bigger warning. You won't just die, you'll get some agony on the way out. Surprised the didn't shoot him in the asshole.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
How is this our infrastructure being vulnerable? Russia didn't hack US infrastructure, at least not that I've seen (please provide reliable sources if you know otherwise) they got in to the internal e-mails of campaigns. Also "hack" seems to be a bit of a strong word for what they did. Sounds like they got in to Podesta's e-mails by phishing his username/password. I'm not really sure what you think the federal government can do to fix/prevent that. I mean they already have information out there about "don't click on shit in e-mails" and there is training out there organizations can point people to from groups like SANS.
That aside, even if it was a hack (as in exploiting vulnerabilities) it wasn't a federal government controlled system. So again, what is the fed supposed to do? Take over private e-mail systems? Put up a national firewall on the Internet?
Majority vote is a meaningless metric. It's not how the election is judged, just like football games aren't judged by the number of yards from scrimmage.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
US agents were supplying arms to numerous rebel factions. Many of these weapons and rebel groups have joined ISIS.
Many of these weapons were already in Iraq by the time Obama became president, and many were supplied to the Iraqi government. That the Iraqi government lost them later to ISIS is the fault of the Iraqi government, not anybody else.
Syria, Libya, and the rapid withdrawal of troops from Iraq represent the worst foreign policy strategy every implemented by the US.
Oh golly, yet another armchair diplomat. What exactly would you have done differently? Even with 20/20 hindsight it is not clear to me what Obama did wrong in those countries. Keep in mind that the Iraqi government was very clear that it wanted the US troops out of the country even before Obama became president.
Yet we are sure enough it was the Russians, even though everyone associated with the leaks swear it's not the Russians, and there is zero proof that it was the Russians. Just trust Obama, he won't start yet another war on fake grounds, would he?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
We can debate how much influence the Russians really did have, but I'd say the Wikileaks emails did Clinton tangible harm.
Hillary won the "popular" vote by several million votes. The flyover states that handed Trump the presidency were never going to vote for her anyway; all Trump did was encourage them out to vote en masse.
I fail to see the impact of Wikileaks here.
It was "nothing" that debate questions were leaked to Hillary in advance, and she said nothing?
It was "nothing" that the DNC rigged the primaries against Sanders?
It was "nothing" that Hillary sent many classified emails over her private email when she said she had said none?
It was "nothing" that Hillary claimed she had only deleted personal emails when in fact she had deleted a vast number of official emails?
Ask Martha Stewart how "nothing" it is to lie to the FBI. Even if you ignored the vast number of illegal and unethical things Hillary has done, even if you ignored all that Hillary should have still gone to jail for the same reason Martha Stewart did. That's why people rightfully called her "Crooked Hillary" and still claim she is a felon; because she is.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
He beat the Republicats. It's not over until the Rs and Ds dump their MAD dirt though.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
If the House intelligence committees want to bury it, then why did they call on the CIA to brief them? Why would the CIA refuse to do so unless the facts are non-existent or incredibly shaky?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Does the 'balls party' get federal funding for its primaries?
Obviously the Balls Party receives federal fondling instead.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I don't understand your response. The maps you reference show about what I said, big Hillary margins on the coasts (and some metropolis cities), Trump getting the in-between territory.
Your politico quote is misquoted --- it says Trump is now more popular than ever (that surprises me too but there you have it).
And I hardly claimed a Trump landslide --- it certainly wasn't. But he did win, and the explanation for that doesn't seem overly complex.
So the statement by a guy who does and has lied for his own gain (Obama) without batting an eye is credible?
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Mao also said 'All political power comes from the barrel of a gun'.
Thank dog Hillary lost. Americans get to keep their political power. Suck it, gun grabbers.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
It was historic. When was the last time we had a non-politician, non-lawyer win the Presidency? You'd have to go back to Eisenhower, I believe... It's been nothing but career politicians and lawyers since then.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Forgot to add ... if you want to get into conspiracies, let's talk about why the candidate I supported (Bernie) didn't have a chance.
If we can just keep them busy and stifle progress in the middle east for another 50-100 years worldwide oil demand will fall so low the entire region will collapse and not be of any strategic concern anymore.
Have you been paying attention in North Carolina? The republicans lost the gubernatorial race so they are just burning the whole thing down before they leave. Probably it will all get reversed by the courts eventually, but that tells you what they really believe in and it is not the constitution or checks and balances. They want it all or else nobody can have it.
Ahh, so you're saying the CIA refused the request because they want to make sure the information is released to the public rather than locked up in a committee?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
What? Hilary was going to take your guns if she was elected?
How could you have any guns left after Obama took them all? Oh wait....
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
Foreign influence is only good when foreign governments (even Russia and some others that would be considered our enemies) are giving money to the Clinton Foundation to support Hillery and buy influence with her, not when they in any way might act against her.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
As per Wikipedia the first troops went into Afghanistan on September 26, 2001. That is almost immediately but still 2 weeks off.
Are you fucking retarded? Do you think if the Russians should hand over information to Wikileaks they will do it with a greeting card "From Russia with Love"? Don't you think that if they have the means to hack into highly confidential systems, they don't have groups and their ways to hide their involvement. Jesus, wake the fuck up already.
Her and her staff silliness did her harm. Russians (if these were they who did it) just helped (possibly illegally) to reveal the truth.
Off by 70 years, if you are referring to the Catholic-Protestant conflict of the 17th century, usually known as the 30 Years' War
No, Trump
Funny how by every empirical measure, GDP, unemployment rate, household income, military casualties, etc., the US has substantially improved during Obama's presidency. But I guess your vague feelings are more meaningful than actual facts. Lets just see what happens during Trump's presidency shall we? If his cabinet picks of almost exclusively oil and wall street executives is anything to go by, it's going to be an interesting four years for the average american.
It's just talk. Everybody in the world knows that Obama pops off like this all the time, and never really means anything or follows through. All part of "leading from behind" policy that has created the universal peace that we all now enjoy.
What with the voter fraud confessed on tape, and apparent in the recount, I don't even believe she won the popular vote. Regardless, it's not about appealing to the most people, it's about appealing to the most different kinds of people.
Also he is releasing all these criminals but the homicide rate is at a 50 year low. It's almost as if a lot of non-violent offenders were being kept in jail to fuel the prison industrial complex, and when you release them crime doesn't increase at all...
What does the popular vote have to do with anything? The fact is she lost, and several states by fairly close margins. The DNC leaks certainly contributed to that loss. Easily 1% across the board. Doesnt make a difference in California or New York, but it made a difference in more than enough other states. But please, keep saying everything is A-OK because Hillary won the popular vote.
And the White house Email system, and the OPM. Don't forget those. That happened more than two years ago, and shut down those email systems for weeks. What was our response to that? Crickets. Thank God this President is on the way out.
I think it's far safer to assume that after the terrible choices made during the Bush years that people just want to be done and over with the region.
I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
Just for the record. I'm strongly partisan fringe case. I want the Ds and Rs to stop holding back and destroy each other. They both have enough dirt on the other to end them. But like siblings in a stern household, they don't snitch each other out from self interest.
Having:
The Ds as a whole completely disconnected and in a stage of grief. Convinced that yet again, Hitler is assuming the presidency.
The Rs smiling, but with a loose cannon aimed right at their peckers. Trying to install the right 'handlers' before anything blows up. Will be disappointed, Trump is crazy, not stupid.
An unhinged narcissist ready to assume the presidency. Smart though. Plays power games like he was born to do it.
An unindicted felon ready to slink away, just assuming she will never wear orange as the loser. Watch the senior aides to Clinton, one will be sacrificed first. Also plays power games like she was born to it. Past history suggests she has a ton of dirt on old time RNC power structure.
Might make most people uneasy, I'm fucking ecstatic. Get some pro-gun people in the SC, burn down both political parties, throw the dice.
Trump is an old man, not used to taking BS. At some point he will quit. Being president is a chumps job. By then, who knows who will be VP.
I'm going out on a limb: the gridlock voter contingent will give the D's a big move in the house in two years, this will frustrate the fuck out of Trump. Senate is pretty hard to move, given the population coming up for reelection, but margins are thin.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
So then - who's stopping them? I guess President Obama doesn't want the facts out there? Someone must be stopping them. Unless - there aren't any facts, and it's all a show to divert attention from other issues such as the illegal and immoral activities that Wikileaks exposed?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
You don't threaten. You do.
You cripple something, or deny something, plant some bogus info, raise the noise level, pass them off in a covert way.
Cost them money or time.
Public threats are posturing.
I, for one, don't care.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
Is ANYONE (aside from CNN and the NYT) buying this bullshit?
-Styopa
Do a little screaming.
Make a little war.
Hand off to next guy!
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Keep licking those wounds because your side lost.
The losing side? Oh, you mean most of the citizens of the U.S.? Yep, but we're not licking Trump's Twitter-whining behind. We're trying to make sense of a president-elect who based his entire campaign on lies. I know, it's confusing for the uneducated but keep on reading the back of your cereal box each morning. Trump will eventually write a secret message to you. Till then, you can donate all your money to that multi-millionaire (not even close to a $billionaire) so he can buy his narcissistic partners in crime a fancy "gold-foil hats" for XMAS.
Ah yes, he said a few months ago that he now owns the highest building in NY. It's all so obvious now!
"Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda, who were responsible for the 9/11 attacks"
Any support for that. I thought they were all from Saudi Arabia. And all I remember Osama saying was "wow, good for them" after the attack, and there wasn't flight simulators to train on in Afghanistan anyway.
Were you alive, then? Because it was a 14-month march to war.
Wow are you confused. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. The Taliban in Afghanistan admitted to hosting and supporting Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda, who were responsible for the 9/11 attacks.
I know we're living in a post factual world where empirical truth doesn't exist. But the fact is that the U.S. led a coaliton of forces against the Taliban in Afghanistan beginning on October 7, 2001. Less than one month after the September 11 attacks.
A lot of people were confused back then, 9/11 was the major motivation for the war in Iraq and the Bush administration was constantly trying to conflate the two. If they didn't try to suggest they were allied there was always the implication that the crazy Arab Muslim Saddam would commit an unprovoked first strike with his WMDs the way al-Qaeda did on 9/11.
In reality they were mostly enemies, Saddam was a Sunni dictator in a majority Shia country so ran a largely secular state. Not dissimilar to Assad a Shia dictator in a majority Sunni country.
Al Qaeda did not like Saddam because of his secularism, and al-Qaeda was rightly thrilled on multiple counts when the US invaded Iraq, but the motive for the US invading Iraq was 9/11.
I stole this Sig
Were you alive, then? Because it was a 14-month march to war.
Wow are you confused. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. The Taliban in Afghanistan admitted to hosting and supporting Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda, who were responsible for the 9/11 attacks.
I know we're living in a post factual world where empirical truth doesn't exist. But the fact is that the U.S. led a coaliton of forces against the Taliban in Afghanistan beginning on October 7, 2001. Less than one month after the September 11 attacks.
Close, but not quite. Iraq was not a direct result of or a response to 9/11. 9/11 laid the groundwork for Iraq, though, focusing more resources including political will, attention, and covert focus on Iraq. More importantly, it put the American People on a war footing psychologically, in a way they had not been for decades. Without that, the ground war in Iraq would probably have been a political non-starter.
Real lawyers write in C++
Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.
Someone should have told Bush that.
The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
Not sources.
Bush himself.
His literal first question was "can we use this to get Iraq?"
The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
As far as I can tell, Congress tried that. And the CIA said "we're not sharing".
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
It's not his fault, because the media is purposely confusing things. Notice how they always talk about Russia "hacking the election" even though that's not at all what happened. And then when they do talk about what Russia is actually accused of doing, they always just say "emails" to try and conflate Hillary's email server with the Wikileaks dump. It's classic disinformation and if you talk about politics with regular people, it's working: people have just kind of mentally merged Hillary's private email server with the Wikileaks email dump with Russians "hacking the vote" despite the fact that none of them are related and the third never happened.
It's a technique that the Democrats are using to distance themselves from Hillary's historic failure as a candidate, and that the Republicans are more than happy to let them get away with because refusing to acknowledge the truth is only going to lead to a GOP supermajority in 2018 and likely a GOP-controlled Constitutional Convention within the next decade.
But it's not surprising that people are confused about what "Russian hacking" is - the media and the lame duck administration are purposely trying to confuse people.
I think you got it backwards, the media conflating the email stories was a huge benefit to the GOP during the election.
You also got it a bit confused as there were three to five distinct email stories (depending how you counted):
1) Clinton using a private unsecured email server instead of the official unsecured email sever, violating some department policies. It wasn't illegal and people had done similar things in the past, but not to the same extent.
2) The tech in charge of the email violated a subpoena. After Clinton turned over her official emails (having her lawyers do the sorting, which was according to protocol), they changed policy to start deleting old emails (completely legal and a good idea). The tech seems to have procrastinated until the subpoena was issued, at which point he illegally tried to fix his mistake by doing the delete. This was illegal and is the 33,000 deleted emails you hear about, but it seems to have just been the tech doing something stupid to fix his screwup. He was never charged since he got immunity in exchange for telling the FBI everything.
3) A few classified emails got sent through the unclassified server by accident. This was the reason for the FBI investigation, the basis for all the claims for her being locked up, and probably the least scandalous part. These are people working with classified and unclassified information on a daily basis, it's inevitable that they'd sometimes put something through the wrong system. It showed the State Dept was a bit too laid back handling classified information, but that's an issue that both preceded Clinton and went well beyond her.
4) Guccifer 2.0 hacked the DNC and gave internal DNC emails to Wikileaks. These were fairly benign mostly showing that yes, campaigns do sketchy stuff sometimes. The most scandalous bit was a party member who was also a CNN contributor got hold of a debate question during the primary and leaked it to the Clinton campaign. Everybody except Wikileaks and portions of the GOP thinks Guccifer 2.0 was actually Russian intelligence (it looks liked they hacked the RNC too but didn't disclose anything).
5) Finally John Podesta's gmail account was hacked directly, again by what appears to be Russian intelligence. Again nothing scandalous though it's fairly interesting since it shows in inside of a campaign. This also exposed the Clinton Foundation since Podesta was involved with that, and as such the Foundation which brought up questions about influence, got drawn into the controversy.
That the general public got confused is pretty much inevitable, there were a lot of different things going on. And since story had the air of something unsavoury going on then even reporting on something relatively savoury re-enforced the larger narrative that there was some kind of deep corruption going on.
I stole this Sig
Had all the nations involved in the 1991 war with Iraq helped make sure Iraq abided by their surrender agreement the 2003 war would not have happened.Instead a significant amount of those countries ran the UN Oil for Food scam and turned a blind eye every time Iraq violated the terms of their surrender. The largest coalition of nations supporting military operations was gathered for the 1991 war. It was a positive action that gave the UN a rare opportunity to show how the world could be rallied together for the common good. And then the UN reverted back to a non-entity that couldn't organize an orgy in a whore house. That sounded the death toll for the UN. It's a worthless organization that should be disbanded or at least unfunded by the US. The 2003 war occurred because Iraq violated every item of the 1991 surrender agreement. Had Japan or Germany not abided by the terms of their surrender they would have been pummeled again without question because not honoring surrender agreements will eventually lead to warring armies not offering or accepting surrender agreements which takes war to a whole new level of barbarity.
Sadaam Hussien himself helped promote the belief that he possessed WMD because he was afraid some of the surrounding countries would take advantage of Iraq's weakened state after the first war. Had Japan or Germany not abided by the terms of their surrender they would have been pummeled again without question because not honoring surrender agreements will eventually lead to warring armies to not offer or accept surrender agreements which takes war to a whole new level of barbarity.
The US made the mistake of planning on lengthy deployments in both Afghanistan and Iraq when they should have went in and killed those needing killing and blowing up any thing of value from the air. They made the mistake of taking prisoners from the battlefield and storing them in Cuba. There were better ways of handing enemy combatants. The Vienna conventions allowed for their battlefield executions. They engaged in war with no insignia or affiliation with a nation states military forces. The US just needs to strap some parachutes (or not) on the remaining prisoners and air drop them where they were original captured.
Wars can be won by airpower alone. The 1991 Iraq war was won from the air and ground troops committed only after the Iraq's were stumbling around in the desert looking for someone to surrender to. Russia's recent carpet bombing of the city of Allepo is another fine example of winning a conflict by bombing everything into ruble and then bombing the ruble until it bounces. I believe everyone should support Russia in performing the same type of operations on every city in the region housing any more than 5 ISIS members. Russia is perfect for these type of action because nobody complains. If the US was to do this there would be so much complaining and hand wringing that the ones having hysterics would push to get Assad a permanent seat of the UN Security council and give ISIS next to the Palestinians in the UN General assembly.
They also offered to hand Bin Laden over if the Bush Administration bothered to back up their claims.
They didn't bother.
Somewhat similar in that regard Turkey wants the U.S. to hand over a cleric it blames for the coup attempt but so far the Obama Administration hasn't been given enough evidence to hand Gulen over to Turkey.
Therefore, Turkey should bomb the shit out of the United States, overthrow its government, offer bounties to throw people into island prisons, torture hundreds of them to death, and plan on occupying our country for the next 30 years at least.
Short of invalidating the election results and making us redo it, I don't know what Obama thinks he can do that will actually bother Putin.
Seems to me there is just anonymous sources, and baseless assertions.
As I understand it: the FBI, and the NSA, are not convinced of such hacking. And the CIA refuses to allow congress to see it's so-called "evidence." I also understand that Putin has essentially asked Obama to put up or shut up - provide evidence or stop accusing.
I want real evidence. I don't care if it's pro-Trump, or anti-Trump, or whatever.
I am sick to death of baseless assertions from anonymous sources. That sort of thing is beneath the standards of the National Enquirer.
IF (and I do say "IF") the CIA has evidence, then have the head of the CIA come out on national television and say that he has unequivocal evidence that Russian hackers substantially affected the US election. And let him explain exactly how the election was hacked, and explain exactly what evidence the CIA has. And let other agencies, such as FBI, and NSA, review the evidence and come to the same conclusions, and make similar announcements.
Also, what do they mean by "hacked?" Do they mean the Russians actually changed the vote counts? Or do they mean that Russia gave hacked emails to wikileaks? Or what?
If it's just email, then what difference does it make if they came from Russia, or another source?
If the dems don't want their shameful behaviour publicised, maybe they should stop their shameful behaviour.
Before we do something as drastic as overthrowing the election, let's have such actual facts.
US agents were supplying arms to numerous rebel factions. Many of these weapons and rebel groups have joined ISIS.
Many of these weapons were already in Iraq by the time Obama became president, and many were supplied to the Iraqi government. That the Iraqi government lost them later to ISIS is the fault of the Iraqi government, not anybody else.
He's not referring to Iraqi army weapons that were captured in Iraq. He's referring to weapons that our government has stated it has supplied to Syrian rebels. Rebels which then either sold the weapons to jihadis, or were absorbed into larger jihadi organizations.
www.cnn.com/2013/09/12/politics/syria-arming-rebels/ : "CIA-funded weapons have begun flowing to Syrian rebels, a U.S. official told CNN."
www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-syria-obama-order-idUSBRE8701OK20120802
Yeah, right. Tell that to Bush, Cheney, Rove, and millions of Americans. They were wrong, but they MADE Iraq about 9/11.
I find it ironic that these days people either say going to war in Iraq was a mistake or they never bring it up. I know some people who were totally gung ho about 2003 war and now say it was a mistake and they never supported it. Now there are many wanting sue the Saudis over 9/11 (unheard of 10 years ago back then). Then there's this Russian hack... duh... here we go again. Now if we can get CIA and FBI to declassify all the "good stuff" but it'd probably dismissed as fake news or most people will just not get it. It may be GB of data and most people don't understand networks (probably too "tubular").
mfwright@batnet.com
Iraq is directly linked to 9/11 through the Anthrax attacks.
Nonsense. This variant of anthrax came from a US lab. The only suspects ever considered were US researchers.
at considerable potential risk to his country.
What risk? Seriously, what could the US do about this that would be a risk for Russia?
[...] while screaming about how stupid everyone else is [...]
Gullible is being too trusting that a candidate will keep their campaign promises. Stupid is voting for the letter next to the candidate's name irregardless of actual qualifications. If you re-read my comment, I wrote gullible not stupid.
[...] your team ran a shit candidate who couldn't even topple a nacho cheese Dorito.
You must feel real proud that you elected a Mexican potato chip to the highest office in the country.
I think you're mostly right. But honestly I never liked Hilliary for years before this. I think the high handed way she and her campaign and the DNC dealt with Bernie did her some harm with a lot of Democrats. They didn't vote for Trump, they just stayed home. It's pretty obvious the leaked e-mails, and they were leaked not hacked, did her the most damage. The fact is though, other than moral support for Trump the Russians had zero to do with it. I figure they want Trump because when it comes to business he's pragmatic. Money talks. They know they can deal with him. I don't know what happened between Hilliary, Obama and Putin but not that long ago they were very cozy then things went sour. Putin gave Hilliary a lot of money and he received a nice Uranium deal but evidently she short changed him somehow.
He likes to draw lines in the sand. He drew a bunch of them in Syria but Assad kept wiping them out with his foot. Maybe he'll draw a line for Putin to scrub out too. No one has any fear of him, they know he's all talk. He can launch a few drones to blow up some goat pens in Pakistan but to actually take a shot at Russia? No way.
No - I think the decision to invade Iraq will forever trump the title "worst foreign policy strategy every implemented by the US".
Why?
The 'whole' mission accomplished fiasco was nothing more than a mis-represented sign signaling the carrier group's end to a successful mission... it was little more than a big red, white, and blue roscharc test.
Ken
You can't say that you are a racist!, sexist!!!
Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.
It's attitudes like yours that cost the entire left this past election cycle. You seem to have it in your head that you get to have an say so in how everyone else gets to vote. And just because YOU think people didn't make the right choice doesn't make your OPINION have any more weight.
And more to the point how just how much absolute corruption can you pricks on the left tolerate? How many well documented cases of high level criminal corruption will it take for you open your eyes to the mere possibility that maybe, just maybe, the media isn't being honest with you? Or are you just going to just talk down to people about how you think you know better than them?
They weren't wrong, they were deceitful murderous bastards.
Play Command HQ online
"Had all the nations involved in the 1991 war with Iraq helped make sure Iraq abided by their surrender agreement the 2003 war would not have happened"
This has got to be about the dumbest assertion written on Slashdot. Bush was going to invade Iraq and no facts were going to get in his way.
Play Command HQ online
It makes you wonder if they're teaching the "mistake" line in schools.
Play Command HQ online
Iraq was about Dick Cheney playing Risk with our kids' lives.
"Anyone can go to Baghdad, real men go to Tehran."
Play Command HQ online
The whitehouse was trying to figure out how to attack Iraq before 9/11
Play Command HQ online
"It had active bio and chem programs."
It had a poison lab for assassins working for the Saddam's spy agency. It didn't have a bioweapon or chemweapon program.
"It's only the Left that continually tries to conflate 9/11 and Iraq."
You must be too young to remember those days.
Play Command HQ online
The sales job was 9/11 and WMD. The true motive has never been fully explained.
Play Command HQ online
Bush knew.
Play Command HQ online
"You simply cannot separate the two attacks from each other."
You perhaps can't, but you should speak for yourself.
Play Command HQ online
You left out black unemployment, which has nearly doubled since your boy took office. And thankfully it will go up by one more January 20th. But realistically it would have been hard for those other numbers not to have gone up after what the globalist GWB did to the country. And I suspect that you picked the few good numbers you could and that black unemployment wasn't the only bad number.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
The fact is, both real anthrax letters were mailed out from the location in New Jersey, and fake ones with the same form of writing from St. Petersberg FL where the 9/11 hijackers had been located. That information had not been made public yet at the time the letters were mailed, so it is highly unlikely that Dr. Ivings could have been the one behind it.
As you note, all real letters were mailed from Princeton, New Jersey. None from Florida. And if there really were fake letters from Florida, it could either be coincidence, or information that had been selectively revealed (Dr. Ivings was not the public, but a researcher acting in a dangerous and classified field; information might have been revealed to him such as "watch out for packages from the following cities").
Also the theory is that a small amount of Anthrax was stolen from the lab from which the bulk of it was created, however with such a sort amount of time between the 9/11 attacks and the first anthrax being mailed out he would have had to have stolen the anthrax BEFORE the 9/11 attacks which seems highly unlikely.
Unless, as is likely, the anthrax was stolen before the 9/11 attacks. One theory for the anthrax attacks is that they were meant to increase awareness of bioterrorism and the 9/11 attacks would have provided convenient publicity for these otherwise unrelated attacks.
I notice that the first anthrax mailing were less effective than the later one which had the anthrax in a more lethal, breathable form. It's possible that whoever sent out the first dose of anthrax didn't have time to more effectively weaponize (I merely mean by that, make it more lethal to the desired targets) the dose, but did with the second round of attacks. That's consistent with someone rushing out a first unplanned dose of anthrax to catch the publicity wave from the initial 9/11 attacks and then sending out a second better prepared dose a few weeks later. Then subsequently destroying whatever evidence they needed to destroy.
If we can just keep them busy and stifle progress in the middle east for another 50-100 years worldwide oil demand will fall so low the entire region will collapse
Sounds like a good idea..... sounds like we should ban consumer cars which can only be powered by conventional liquid fuels (Gasoline, Diesel, or Ethanol) and require all consumer vehicles made after 2018 and all business trucks manufactured after 2020 able to be powered by charging a battery or alternative fuel, for national security reasons.
Indeed. I seem to recall the Iraqi Information Minister being a popular source of amusement and target for ridicule here in 2003.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
Yeah, this is all smoke from the DNC and its allies in the media. Both Obama and Putin realize it, too, so the difficult job of pretending he's taking Obama seriously (as if that were ever the case in the last eight years) falls to the Russian president. I don't envy him.
No single entity released these voting machines. The red-tape created an environment hostile to secure and (more importantly) auditable voting machines. https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
OMG facts!
How the hell was this modded up? No, Afghanistan as a nation wasn't attacked that same night. (We might have done some one-off small attacks against suspected al-Qaeda hiding places.) We gave the Taliban a few weeks to meet some ultimatums. Actual war didn't come until October.
The second Iraq War obviously, obviously would not have occurred had the 9/11 attacks not happened. Many politicians and officials (off the top of my head: Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld) are on record about trying to leverage 9/11 into an attack on Iraq almost immediately after the attack. The smoking gun memo, detailing a meeting that took place 9 months before the Iraq invasion, at minimum indicates that we were gunning for Iraq well in advance AND that we were trying to use terrorism as a major justification for doing so.
The comment about " intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy of removing Saddam through military action" and the subsequent forgeries and lies that were used as justification for war are just the icing on the cake. Even disregarding the conspiratorial aspects, enough was said in the open to make abundantly clear that 9/11 led directly to our decision to make war with Saddam.
I know what it means. If you've got a point say it, don't be cute.
Which war is real? The one where Syria is killing it's citizens in droves? The one where we drop bombs on targets of opportunity here and there? It's not a real war, real wars have objectives. It's just a fucking slaughter house. Our soldiers shouldn't be in it unless we're committed to doing something. I can't believe we have any allies in the area considering how we've treated them.
we have had that for 8 years now
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
a robbery where nothing was taken? must be some pretty bad robbers
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
Besides, Putin is more photogenic than Hillary.
Don't assume that everyones taste in porn is the same as yours.
Trump - making First Lady porn great again.
It's attitudes like yours that cost the entire left this past election cycle.
As a moderate conservative, I don't representative the left.
You seem to have it in your head that you get to have an say so in how everyone else gets to vote.
Yes, I'm an American.
And just because YOU think people didn't make the right choice doesn't make your OPINION have any more weight.
Again, I'm an American.
And more to the point how just how much absolute corruption can you pricks on the left tolerate?
Why don't you ask someone on the left? I'm just right of center.
How many well documented cases of high level criminal corruption will it take for you open your eyes to the mere possibility that maybe, just maybe, the media isn't being honest with you?
Assuming that the Electoral College doesn't correct this historical mistake, the Trump administration will rival the Reagan administration when it comes to controversy, corruption and prison sentences.
https://www.quora.com/Which-presidents-administration-was-the-most-corrupt-in-US-history
Or are you just going to just talk down to people about how you think you know better than them?
If you feel like I'm talking down to you, it's because you're groveling on the floor. That's your problem, not mine.
Pointing out that the emperor has no clothes and is a big fat hypocrite who lies all the time is hardly irrelevant.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Or else we will be very, very angry with you. And we will write you a letter, telling you how angry we are.
Tracy Johnson
Old fashioned text games hosted below:
http://empire.openmpe.com/
BT
if they hacked the voting machines id agree with you. there is no proof of that. all they did (if anything) was leak proof that hillary rigged the primary
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
You make like every liberal politician hasn't said "we should outlaw all guns" at some point in their career.
Saying "certainly" doesn't make anything any more true.
I don't respond to AC's.
They were wrong, but they MADE Iraq about 9/11.
Not to me.
For what that's worth.
Which is approximately nothing.
There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.
When they show Obama talking, every time he says (D)"Uh", that's a shot. Just pull up is announcement on this one.
So... only politicians have conflicts of interest? I think Assange has many things he wants and ways of getting them - avoidance of extradition and arrest, for starters. He probably believes that if he does a big favor for Trump, Trump will do a big favor for him. And he's probably right. HRC would certainly have wanted him put on trial. So, I don't believe he is particularly trustworthy, some kind of neutral impartial observer with no skin in the game. And if you follow the maxim of "cui bono", or follow the money (or benefit, if not actual money), why is it so unbelievable that Russia would have engaged in turning the election? It's very much in Russia's interest to have a lapdog president. Putin has stated over and over that he wants the Soviet empire back, even without a communist government. Since the tsars, Russia has wanted a compliant girdle of vassal states. This is not unique to Russia, certainly the USA has declared Central America its "backyard" and has exercised overweening influence there, covertly and overtly. All I can say is I wouldn't want to be an Estonian right now, used as they have become to European-style culture and freedom.
Interfere in the political process of another country himself! Oh wait, how would you notice that?
"roscharc test"? You failed. It's "Rorschach". That and your pitiful apologia for G W Bush and his lying, chickenhawk neocons.
to err is human, to forgive is divine, to forget is... umm...
A guy with a gun who just shot someone is suddenly spooked, and can't take the 5 seconds it takes to check his victim's back pockets for a wallet? Who spooked him? He was shot multiple times in the back. Isn't that odd for a robber to shoot him multiple times and then run without taking his wallet?
You can argue all you want about the bad reasoning for the invasion of Iraq. But none of that will change the fact that in 2008, there were more violent deaths in Chicago than there were in Iraq. The Obama/Clinton approach to the Middle East is a complete disaster. Millions of refugees from across North Africa and the middle east thanks to their arming of rebels everywhere. US armed rebels have been responsible for indiscriminately killing civilians everywhere across the Middle East including Libya, Egypt, Syria, northern Iraq, Yemen and Tunisia. But please, keep bringing up the invasion of Iraq to distract from this foreign policy disaster.
More civilians have died from Obama/Clinton arming rebels across the Middle East than died from the Iraq war and the subsequent insurgency there.
You don't really believe this bullshit do you?
I understand you guys are processing grief. Please shut up until you get to acceptance.
Check the intrusion logs on any public facing IP address (you dolt). Even without being the property of the DNC, all machines this badly admined are owned in short order.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Wait until the agencies aren't taking orders for Obama before we trust their statements. Even then, very little credibility where politics are involved.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Not only does the bitch not get to appoint the next SC judge. She won't get to appoint Ginsburg's replacement.
We avoid the 'million gun march' for at least a few more decades. Which is good, the outcome of that isn't predictable. The government losing is predictable, but the new one isn't.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Exactly. Or course nobody in power can say it outloud or it wouldn't work.
You know it was the plan because it was their goto plan. The people in Bush's admin were the same people that maintained the stalemate between Iran/Iraq.
Also fucks the house of Saud/UAE/Kuwait etc (only downside, if the middle east gets too hot, the oil money will help the Ruskys). We know they are not our allies, but everybody has to pretend they are.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
They both have records of lying. If you think they are similar records it says more about you than anything.
One is a machiavellian power monger, the other is a narcissist who reinvented in inferior copy of cryptome.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about flag burning?
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
Or course nobody in power can say it outloud or it wouldn't work.
Bingo, that's the only problem with the plan.
(only downside, if the middle east gets too hot, the oil money will help the Ruskys).
That's a good point, but with fracking we can keep it under control to a certain degree.
And EVERY security service on the face of the planet said Saddam had WMDs - including the one you are trusting now about the Russians
They also turned out to be right to an extent. There were biological weapons found in Iraq, but not the nukes he was claiming he had to try and scare Iran into backing down.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Hillary's email server was already offline when it was found out about. They wiped it rather than submit the emails to congressional subpoenas. There was nothing for them to hack. Also, they DID NOT hack the elections, stop helping the media with spreading this falsehood.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
https://www.hillaryclinton.com...
Hillary supports widened gun control, do you doubt her word for it?
How could you have any guns left after Obama took them all? Oh wait....
AsHornWumpus put it, thank dog, the president doesn't have the power to unilaterally do whatever he wants, and was instead blocked from taking guns as he wanted to by congress who passes actual legislation. Though he did cry on TV because he couldn't stop extremely rare instences of violence that would happen with or without guns.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us...
http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/01/...
etc etc etc
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
There is no proof as of yet that the elections were even hacked, that is exaggeration by the media, as it was only an email server for the DNC.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
False argument.
Widened gun control is not equal to "Take away all your guns"
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
What is the goal of widened gun control than? The effort is to reduce the availability of firearms that are scarey (assault weapons...which is a non existant category of scarey firearm). How is that not taking guns from future owners of firearms that are used for numerous legal uses?
If the gun control is at all about safety, and preventing deaths, than we need 0 new laws, as the crime rate has been drastically going down already. Perhaps we should look at reducing gun control to more sensable levels, after all the bill of rights says that there shall be no law preventing the ownership of firearms:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Pretty clear to me, so lets follow the laws of the land and reduce regulations that are not causing anything but a reduction in the abilities of the common man from owning firearms as guarenteed by the second amendment.
Also, my argument was anything but false, Obama tried, and he even cried on camera at his failure, but the president doesn't make laws. Hillary also promised that she would restrict firearms as well, she herself said so on her campeign page.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Or, alternating the emphasis...
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
.
See? I can cherry pick, too.
Actually, I'm a Constitutional absolutist myself. I think most gun control laws are misguided to some extent. But let me ask you this. What do you think of flag burning?
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
Except that is one reason for the right to bear arms not the only reason, and doesn't mean what you are implying it means. Well regulated means that they are trained in the use of the firearm, not that they are restricted in their use. So if you want to pass legislation requiring firearm owners to be trained on the use of their firearms, that will fit very nicely in the regulated militia.
Flag burning is a protest, I don't agree with it, but it is the right of the people to protest in whatever manner they choose.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
OK. Many people who hold the Second dear, are willing to gut the first when their ox is gored.
I, personally do not own a gun, but that is MY choice. I would never tell someone not to own a gun. Well, maybe convicted felons who have not yet had their civil rights restored...
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
I am in the same position as you WRT owning. I have always considered it an unwise choice for me to have a gun with my kids in the house, but I would never prevent another from owning a gun.
As for the first, I would wonder which portion they would want to gut. Freedom of speech seems to be something that the Left has wanted to gut recently, while the right seems to want to make Christianity a national religion, which would gut freedom of religion. I think only Trump wants to remove the freedoms of the press though, because he doesn't like what they have to say, and feels that slander/libel laws aren't enough...for some unspecified reason.
I personally want to maintain all of the Constitution and Bill of Rights; even to the point that I think the federal government is too powerful, and we need to return to a state of independant states as the Constitution calls for. Perhaps this makes me unusual, but that is me.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?