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Germany Threatens To Fine Facebook Over Hate Speech (go.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from ABC News: German officials are stepping up their criticism of Facebook, saying the social network is doing too little to stop hate speech and could face stiff fines unless it deletes illegal content faster. In an interview published Friday, Justice Minister Heiko Maas said his ministry was checking whether it would be possible to make social networking sites legally liable for illegal posts. Germany has seen a sharp increase in vitriolic posts on social media in recent years amid a heated public debate over the influx of more than a million migrants since the start of 2015. The country has laws against speech deemed to be racist, defamatory or inciting violence -- a response to Germany's Nazi legacy. But authorities have struggled with the deluge of often anonymous postings on foreign-owned websites. Thomas Oppermann, a senior lawmaker in Maas' Social Democratic Party, told German weekly Der Spiegel that dominant social media sites like Facebook could be required to delete illegal posts within 24 hours or face fines up to 500,000 euros ($522,000). Facebook also could be compelled to distribute corrections that reach the same number of people as the original post, Oppermann suggested, something traditional media companies in Germany are already required to do.
All the influx of refugee's from Syria is causing a rebellion of the German people. Repressing it won't solve it.
content should only be illegal after a judge analizes it, after the fact
otherwise is plain old censorship
What if we made homeowners responsible for hateful graffiti scrawled on their house? Or pubs and cafes liable for what is discussed there?
John_Chalisque
When the United States practices censorship, they're lambasted on here. However, when European countries engage in censorship, everyone seems okay with it. Why is there a double standard on censorship?
Furthermore, why is it okay for Germany to force their laws on an American company? If the United States was trying to force their laws on a German company, especially if they were trying to force a German company to censor content that's legal in Germany, Slashdot readers would be up in arms. Why is there a double standard?
Trump won the election not because of some Russian hackers,but rather like a major victory in the global war against political correctness, and against neo-Marxism. In Western Europe there is a large majority of people who share a great love for the far left and leftism. Eastern Europe just throwing this to the toxic waste dump, not long ago, after paying a high price.
Bruxelles[Berlin] is seriously infested by cultural Marxism.
.. in the first place?
It's an American country.
What happen if Facebook simply says "fuck off"?
Now the EU are banning (?) negative speak about refugees from the parties.
But how is that even the problem? The problem is that our traitor government let these people in in the first place. We don't want them here. That's the scenario. Why are they brought in? EU, Germany and Sweden are the enemies of the European peoples and democracy.
In Germany it is illegal to "criticize" "immigrants". Put-in-jail illegal.
Quotes intentional.
Yes I'm posting anonymously.
Seriously online companies need to start charging Germany for all the nanny sitting they require for their citizens, Basically cancel all outstanding lawsuits and give them 10 millions dollars. They just might break even.
I don't even like Facebook. But it's still like.... oh a company is making money... lets sue. Almost as bad as my home state of California.
Umm, Germany is a German country.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
.. in the first place?
It's an American country.
I assume you mean company? But it's not. The parent company is, but it has subsidiaries all over the world.
What happen if Facebook simply says "fuck off"?
Then the German police will raid Facebook's German offices.
We don't want them here.
Speak for yourself. I'm only here because enough people did not have your shitty attitude to my great grandparents who were also refugees from persecution.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Simple solution, close the German offices...
Just close it down, with a nice explanatory page about why and what needs to be done to get it back.
When the copyright term is "forever minus a day", live every day like it's the last.
German statistics show pretty clearly that there is no significant rise in violent crime. Last year, crime has indeed risen by about 4 percent. Statistics also show that the majority of this rise is indeed due to foreigners and refugees committing crimes, BUT - and that is a very, very significant but - almost all of these crimes are related to crimes only Non-Germans can even commit in the first place, e.g. not leaving the country after their residence permit has expired, and so on. When you ignore this type of crime, there is practically no change compared to previous years. Most notably, there is no significant rise in violent crimes, and sexual assault is on a decline. The claims of the raping, murdering, child molesting terrorist refugees are, in german reality, the immature nightmares of the extreme right wing, which is a rather small, albeit growing and extremely vocal minority here. You can check the crime statistics on the websites of the government and police in Germany, if you don't believe me.
Also, there is no law that prohibits German officials from voicing their view that more refugees should be taken into the country. (In reality, they mostly don't, by the way). However, it is by German law a crime to, for example, publicly claim that muslims are rapists and therefore should be killed. Sadly, you read this kind of stuff quite often on most social media platforms. As Facebook operates in the German market, makes a significant chunk of income here, and even has a German subsidiary, it is therefor subject to German law.
If the homeowner DID point a web cam to it and decided to keep it after being reported it is hate speech ? Yes. The painting is not the problem, the publishing is. If the café took a loudspeaker in the street and fully knew it was hate speech after it was reported ? Again yes as the publishing is the problem.
Facebook is the publisher. Facebook get a reports like *ALL* media , and has to take it down , like a DMCA in the US for comparison, or be liable. And if you find the law bad, well remember it was set by the allies and forced onto the german. Germany cannot really remove it if they wanted, as they would get pretty much all EU countries angry and possibly be accused of wanting to go nazi again.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
WHY? Why in the fuck would a company be that fucking stupid? What would that gain them except subjection to STUPID laws like this one? Look, I hate Facebook with a vengeance. I wish it would die. But how could any company be that stupid?
Not a solution. As long as they do business there (and they sell ads there), they are subject to german law. And as long as they target a German audience, they are subject to German law. They're free not to offer their services to germans, but, let's face it, they want ad revenue from there.
She's number 4 on the list of most popular politicians in Germany. Her party is still 14 percentage points in front of every other party. 50% think she is doing a good job.(Source) Yes, there is a vocal minority that hates her and calls the media "Lügenpresse" or lying press and vote for the new right-wight populist party "AfD"(12%) but far more people either support Merkel's party (36%) or center to left-wing parties (22%+10%+10%). And this isn't just MSM, many of the federal states of Germany had elections this year and while AfD had impressive gains, it is nowhere near a majority anywhere.
Jan
This is exactly the kind of 'hate speech' the stasi want to censor. AKA 'the truth'.
They still want to sell ads to German companies and to German customers. They also want to get paid for these ads. Volkswagen is a German company, but they still need to abide American laws while selling cars in the US. They could let their American subsidy go bankrupt and stop selling cars instead of paying the fine. But instead they will pay the fine and keep their access to the US market, because this is likely going to pay off in the long term. The same is likely true for Facebook. They don't like to employ a lot of people to check posts that were flagged for hatespeech because that takes a lot of time and reduces the amounts of ads they can sell to racists. But if they have to choose between operating slightly less profitable in Germany or not at all, they will likely go for slightly less profitable.
Jan
It's you who are being stupid in this case; it's how multinationals make money in countries other than America, obviously. Although the American market is the largest in the world, it is still only around 20% (varies depending on how you ask) of the available market.
Bullshit: Most countries have laws against speech that is insulting or bullying, defamatory, or inciting panic or criminal activity.
How often has Twitter been on Slashdot because such speech robs others of a voice? Post a few naked nipples on Facebook and they will block your account without hesitation; this is Facebook refusing to pay censors to read every suspicious message. As soon as a rabid crowd realize they can use speech to silence other voices without consequence, that cyberspace or forum loses its power of free speech.
Shooting the messenger means speech is controlled by government politics, not by the messenger punishing bad netizens. It also requires the messenger to know what speech is legal, a moving target in the law books.
"immature nightmares"? You are mentally ill, aren't you?
You're wrong, criminal statistics indicate the opposite, refugees are slightly less criminal than native Germans, especially concerning sex crimes and violent crimes (murder, manslaughter, arson). Of course, absolute numbers of crimes always increase when the total population increases, but that's irrelevant when the increase in violent crimes would be even higher if the population of Germans had been increased by more births 20 years ago.
You're just the victim of systematic disinformation by various interested parties, because you cannot think on your own and are unable to check statistical claims from the source and interpret statistics correctly. What's particularly ironic about posts like yours is that the statistics is made available for free by the German police and the Statistisches Bundesamt, you'd just have to download them. But you're too lazy and stupid for that and just want to cherry-pick whatever fits your agenda.
And now facebook
http://www.prosperaronline.com.br/produtos-para-revender-direto-da-fabrica/
Sorry, but that is just plain bullshit. You fully allowed to criticize migrants and immigration in Germany. What is not allowed is to incite hatred or violence against them and Jailterm based on this law rarely happens.
Jan
I prefer reality over stupid google maps made by xenophobic right wingers. Check the actual statistics.
IM at the pizza hut
IM at the pizza hut
WE at the taco bell
WE at the pizza hut
WE at THE COMBINATION PIZZAHUT AND TACO BELL
Having failed to force the sun to shine at night and the wind to blow constantly all the time, the German legal system is trying to force people to like a vast swarm of insurgents who arrived without visas and who are getting away with Allah knows what.
Did your grandparents have the same shitty attitude as the current crop of "refugees"? Or did they fit in and pull their weight?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I wrote a reply just after how I meant an American COMPANY and how I hadn't eaten yet but I couldn't post it then because of the time delay and then it never got posted.
What I meant was that Facebook is an American company and I don't necessarily see why whatever national law should apply to any country in the world.
Then again that may very well be how it is in this case.
I of course never meant Germany was part of America.
Well your citations totally convinced me.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Then the German police will raid Facebook's German offices.
Just close them down and ignore the Germans?
Speak for yourself.
As for volumes I'm speaking for the majority even in Sweden and I of course also speak for the majority of the Europeans.
I'm only here because enough people did not have your shitty attitude to my great grandparents who were also refugees from persecution.
My opinion doesn't even matter since the ruling elite is possibly even beyond the EU but if nothing else there and that's law which become superior to Swedish law and even if that wasn't the case Sweden is a consensus democrature where established media and the political elite holds hands and go their own way and don't listen to the people but rather tell the people what they should believe and accept.
I can raise it (and be hushed in all mainstream and social media and possibly jailed or killed for it) but unless half+ of the Swedish population voted for the same alternative it will have little result. And even then as said we're ruled by the EU and they can still decide against the will of the Swedish politicians and people. We could of course leave the EU and should. Eventually if we talked things like deportation the UN would likely be upset too.
Also the attitude isn't shitty just because you say so. It's a sane attitude.
If nothing else the welfare system should be completely abolished so we don't attract people who don't want freedom and Swedish culture but come from the money such as the guy who punched out the teeth of the teacher who talked to his wife. He's obviously not here because of his great knowledge about the Swedes and their society beyond how much money he could leech from the system.
Why does any multinational do it? Because they have to have a registered presence in a country to do business there.
This wouldn't apply if you're selling knitted toilet roll covers via spamazon and turning over 50 bucks a year in Portugal.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Every incident on that map is sourced.
Every incident here and here is sourced.
Labelling people presenting facts as "xenophobic right wingers" for objecting to the importation of 3rd world criminality means neither yourself or the German government can be taken seriously. I suggest you grow up and further suggest Merkel start taking responsibility for the consequences of her actions.
Facebook says it's not a media company, but in essence it is.
On Facebook, the user-generated contents are subjected to full control by Facebook. By posting on Facebook, the user grants Facebook a license to use such material in any way it sees fit, including subjecting it to resharing, takedown, or other commercial use such as their internal data analysis. In fact this is the only way Facebook can operate. It's business model is based on exchanging its technological service for the voluntary submission of user content, thereby retaining the users attention and the time they stay with Facebook.
In this way Facebook is responsible for what kind of content it solicits from the members. When the user submits material, it is implied that Facebook has purchased license to use such material (not in a monetary sense, but it actually paid its due in the form of service rendered). If such material is illegal to license or use commercially under German law, it makes Facebook liable under German jurisdiction.
The only way Facebook can get out of the liability arising from user-generated material is to go full common-carrier and surrender all control of user-generated content, including keeping itself away from obtaining a license to use such material. But that would also bust its business model.
The german government invites in thousands of "migrants" and now there is an explosion of sexual assaults, rapes, murder and other crimes. But don't you dare complain about it online or your government will go after the you and the medium that gave you your tiny little voice and cover up the crimes committed those invaders. Wake up... europe is being conquered.
It is your voice that is mostly ignored.
Are you even reading what you are writing? Because
So you aren't speaking for the majority in Sweden after all. Who exactly gives you the mandate to speak for the majority of the Europeans then?
The last time I was in Sweden was in 1992 and people like you are the reason why it will stay that way. Same goes for Poland by the way. Your neighbour Finland is a far more pleasant place, I've visited it 5 or 6 times already and will visit again.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
What make it possibly for Germany to find Facebook in the first place?
Assuming you mean "fine", then if Facebook operates as a business in Germany, then the German state can most certainly take punitive measures against it.
It's an American country.
I feel safe in saying that Facebook is not a country.
What happen if Facebook simply says "fuck off"?
The same as if any other German company refuses to follow German law. Of cause, if they aren't in Germany as a legal entity, then Germany has options via the EU courts, or they can choose to simply block access to Facebook similar to how they already block access to other websites deemed to be illegal.
Now the EU are banning (?) negative speak about refugees from the parties.
There exists no such EU law, nor can it exist. Read the EU charter.
But how is that even the problem? The problem is that our traitor government let these people in in the first place. We don't want them here. That's the scenario. Why are they brought in? EU, Germany and Sweden are the enemies of the European peoples and democracy.
Enough people in Europe wants to help the refugees, even if you prefer people go die somewhere away from where you live.
I have looked at that map excessively recently, because I had to for job reasons, so let me explain: The claimed sources for most of the cases mentioned there are either police reports or newspaper articles. In some cases, I have found two or three pins for the same case. In the majority of cases I have checked, there has been a criminal complaint, not an actual arrest or conviction. In others, there hasn't even been a criminal complaint, but only a report from so-called "eye-witnesses". Also, in a vast number of cases, the suspects have been described as looking "southern" or "mediterranean", which in Germany is a euphemism for arabs or turks, but is also often used to describe people who come from more southern EU countries - even for people who are legally Germans, but look somehow different. It is important to know how that euphemism ends up in the reports though: People themselves don't often use it. They describe a person as slightly darker skin, dark hair, maybe a beard - and the German police shorten that in their report as "suedlandisch" ("mediterranean-looking", for the non-germans here).
The point is, in no way is this map capable of proving that:
a. all the cases mentioned actually happened. Let's assume, though, they have, just for the fun of it.
b. any of the suspects is actually of non-german descent
c. any of the suspects is a refugee or a migrant
All of the above is just accepted as true and as fact by the creators of that map and people who need to confirm ther xenophobe prejudices.
Let me give you an example: One case there is sourced from an article about a "dark skinned man" that "robbed" a woman. What does dark skin mean? Is the suspect a refugee? Is he Syrian? Romanian? American? Canadian? English? Or may he just be a German who happens to have "dark skin"? On closer inspection, in that specific case, a man and a woman tricked someone by diversion and stole her wallet. That's what's left. Not a violent robbery at gunpoint by an immigrant, but a trick theft by someone with dark skin.
By far the worst flaw of that map is that it does not put the cases it "reports" into the context of the big picture, as in comparing actual convictions of proven non-germans to those of people of german descent. If I were to publish a map of crimes allegedly committed by red-haired women or fans of a certain soccer club, it would be just as meaningless, because it lacks the context of the big picture. Of course, leaving that out of the picture is a choice that was made by the creators for a very good reason: It would destroy their claims that it is the "foreigners", "migrants" or whatever that commit crimes here. Because, in reality, their crimes are a teeny tiny fraction of the whole crime in Germany.
All in all, that map is an incomplete an inconsistent misinterpretation of reality, which is being mistaken by the xenophobic as "fact", because it confirms their world view and is therefor easier to accept than actual reality. The truth is that close to one million refugees in one year had no significant impact on violent crime in Germany, as of official and proven statistics issued not only by the government, but also by the german police (which is, frankly, not exactly known to be on good terms with the non-german people).
I don't need to grow up anymore. I grew up decades ago. I have seen the fall of the Berlin Wall, I have seen the racist attacks in Germany in the 90s. And those in recent months. I have still met and lived with people who actually had to endure right and left wing oppressive regimes in Germany, so I know what to look for when it comes to xenophobic extremist tendenies. I know how to work with news and information sources, because it's my fucking job. You don't get to choose your favorite information to be the truth. You choose the most reliable,
Freedom of speech and freedom of religion in the EU can be restricted for lots of reasons.
Of course they can outlaw criticism of refugees.
Google translate this:
http://jyllands-posten.dk/inte...
https://translate.google.se/tr...
"EU Parliament wants countries to speak well of refugees
Member states should stay away from hate speech about refugees for their own political gain."
"EU member states must refrain from encouraging fear and hatred against migrants and asylum seekers for their own political gain.
It says the European Parliament in a new report on fundamental rights. It's Tuesday has been voted through parliament with an overwhelming majority.
- We have seen an increase in hate speech from political parties throughout Europe, says JÃzsef Nagy, a member of the EPP Group in the European Parliament and rapporteur for the report.
EU spokesman for the Danish People's Party Kenneth Kristensen Berth said recently that the EU's border guards can use warning shots against boat people. The shots were to get migrants to return.
It may be an example of a hateful expression in the EU Parliament will curb, says JÃzsef Nagy.
- We experience these outbreaks and it is not only in Denmark but throughout Europe.
- I do not think that he is serious about shooting refugees, but we must be vigilant. We can not allow the political dialogue become violent threats, says Nagy.
Instead of the negatively charged dialogue should member states according to the report promoting the European values ââof freedom and equality.
Tolerance and a sense of community will counter stigma. At the same time it will prevent radicalization and violent extremism, says the European Parliament in the report.
In addition, it will help EU citizens to have a more positive view of integration.
- Our union must not only deal say with legal and financial problems. The EU must also deal with the question of fundamental rights and set a good example, says JÃzsef Nagy."
The majority likely don't want to be invaded by them, I know that here in Sweden the majority consistently wish for less. And that's in a lied upon system which I think may also have the most positive people in the EU towards it? But feel free to give actual evidence for what you claim rather than just stating it.
They don't need to die. Here in Sweden lots of private services are bought with public funding. We could simply buy refugee shelter of whatever quality we thought was decent from the lowest bidder among other nations. Preferably nations which are closed to the area where there is trouble. Alternatively we could just not offer them any citizenship or welfare and then they came anyway or they didn't and went somewhere else instead.
Why don't Germany just send those filthy racists to “improvement camps” in Poland?
“Labour makes you free (from racism)”
This oft-cited sentiment was first verbalized by a Supreme Court Justice in 1919. The case was not about any actual fire or theater, but about a man distributing leaflets and otherwise agitating against World War I draft. The protester was trying to defend his speech by the First Amendment and failed.
As later anti-draft protests — and the legal reaction to them — made clear, such speech is now not only legal, but commendable.
As the 1919 case I cited above makes regretfully if abundantly obvious, the difference is not at all "distinct", and the country's top legal minds can very well err on the side of oppression. That later-amended decision passed by SCOTUS unanimously...
Even today, a sizable portion of Americans — plenty of lawyers among them — would consider Donald Trump's speech "hateful" and "inflammatory", making it most tempting for the party at the helm of the Executive branch to prosecute him, thus helping their own candidate win. Do you really want a country like that? Oh, wait.... You probably do...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Moderating threads? Delete all content manually and maybe ban commenter!
Not wanting to be bothered with manual moderation? Censorship. Call it "hate speech" and imply that it is criminal.
Don't like or don't care for having free speech on general basis? Collude with or allow a government to pursue criminal charges, and worse.
Simple solution, close the German offices...
Out of interest, are you American? I ask, because there's a certain group of Americans here who seem to assume that anything that isn't America is tiny. Germany has an economy about 1/4 of the size of the US. That is an immmense amount of business. I'm not sure Facebook's shareholders would consider it a good solution. That makes it not simple.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Who seez Leninish Germany needs Hitler to roll out the gestapo ? Working to suffocate free speech makes you free ... I think Goering said that! What next ... all blonde hair Aryans to the gas-chambers ?
Would Trotsky jewboiz have done this vis' the 1920 German kommi revolution if Hitlers Brown-shirts had not put-them-down? Think very careful palsy, just who are your enemies and what pain suffices to preserve your individual liberties.
They don't like to employ a lot of people to check posts that were flagged for hatespeech because that takes a lot of time and reduces the amounts of ads they can sell to racists. But if they have to choose between operating slightly less profitable in Germany or not at all, they will likely go for slightly less profitable.
Clearly they need to obey the laws of the countries where they do business, and facebook.de needs to comply. However, they may not need to hire additional staff if they simply automatically delete any flagged post containing certain words; that would mean they only have to check ones that are flagged but do not contain the auto-delete words.Sure it would probably result in deletion of non-offensive material as well but it would be cheaper than adding staff.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
Did your grandparents have the same shitty attitude as the current crop of "refugees"? Or did they fit in and pull their weight?
Great grandparents.
Fit in? No, not especially. My great grandmother had passable English at best, and very heavily accented, from what little I remember of her. I believ my greatgrandfather did better in that regard, but I don't think either of them would have spent much time if any hanging around the natives. And, pull their weight how? It's not like they arrived with jobs lined up. What part of "refugee" is unclear?
My grandparents (1st generation born here) all grew up in slums. Most of them did pretty well for themselves despite that. My great grandparents did get jobs after eventually, but before then I expect there were as dependent on the soup kitchens and shelters as many of the other fellow regugees at that time. There was also a charity that gave interest free loans to them to help them get on their feet after they arrived.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
WHY? Why in the fuck would a company be that fucking stupid? What would that gain them except subjection to STUPID laws like this one? Look, I hate Facebook with a vengeance. I wish it would die. But how could any company be that stupid?
Complying with local business registration laws aside, there are advantages to having subsidiaries. For example, it allows companies to decide where profits are booked rather than having all of the money flow back to the US; it also affords them legal protections offered to local firms and can separate liability form the parent and the local company. For companies that sell hard goods it also allows them to setup different warranty schemes and not have to honor a warranty world wide. Complying with local laws is one price they pay for such benefits.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
The way I see it, so called "hate speech" (I don't like the term myself) sort of means different things, sort of laded with this fake sense of self importance. Not only would "hate" be a form of speech with what words are used, oddly enough "hating" "hate" would be another way of using the term "hate speech", in that illegality as such is attributed to forms of expression, regardless if uttered or not, as if preemptively making someone's expression illegal on terms of it not being illegal on its own merit, but as if making an intent or an activity something illegal.
So, in a perverse way, so called "hate crime" would thus be a political crime, when the underpinnings of an accusation of a hate crime RELY on a government "hating" "haters", and not a regular crime. Which I think is problematic, to say the least.
Hate = nothing to do with a purely imagined ill will, but instead an expressed attribution of anything negative really, and positive, but the positive things is usually never really something one would disapprove of, as if being generally upset by false praise.
I would like to know what the English word "hate" has some about in history. The reason why I defined "hate" this way above, is because I once say an indication in a word book, that the word "hat" was somehow originated by an act of physical attribution as if physical labeling, with a piece of clothing. After I thought that, I never think of "hate" in a simple way ever again. It would not surprise me if there's some kind of similarity between the words "hat" and "hate.
Look the definition of censure, Herr Comrade
I want to add, that an imo interesting, but also important nuance here, is that given how "hate speech" is imo not only this fake problem in society (as if one were simply discussing ill will), because a person and a government probably have two quite different ways of understanding the word "hate speech", and there in one government making an issue (anything so called "hate speech") political, a person is at an obvious disadvantage, having no real power, however a government have likely the will and the means to exact any form of reaction.
I suppose even if a government were to confront an organization with lots of people in it, the group is still at an obvious disadvantage, having no real power, and a government have likely the will and the means to exact any form of reaction.
I suppose this is why political crimes tend to be thought of as being abusive.
I am European, no doubt about that. Have a look at my profile.
As much as I do not enjoy facebook malevolence, I am also not particularly fond of each little nazi country trying to legislate the Internet, or worse yet, the latest global brouhaha/propaganda about malicious/fake/illegal content in facebook.
The truth is the powers that be want to control information, and many good people in the establishment is not at ease people only see and believe what they want "in facebook".
Wake up and smell the coffee, people also read whatever news they fancy in the newspapers, buy specialised mags of questionable content, and google what they fancy.
what next, will they assign Herr Merkel to my house to look over my shoulder to my Google searchs, or will use metadata and cut out your Internet access if you do not access the sites party once every two weeks?
They can do business with Germans without actually being in Germany. There are literally Germans all over the planet, so it should be no trouble finding employees who speak the language regardless of where they would like to operate their German sales office. Then Germany will have to go after each individual German (or German company) which does business with Facebook, and/or ban access to their domain.
This is the mechanism by which the internet routes around censorship. If Facebook doesn't do this, that's fine; some other chat system which does will become more popular because of the lack of censorship.
Regardless of these laws' origin, they are harmful today. They drive hate speech to places where it is more difficult to track.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Correction: I mean accusing someone of crimes in a political way would be thought of as being abusive.
So now Germany, the most vibrant economy in Europe, is now sliding back down a totalitarian path. Freedom of speech, freedom of association, all are disappearing. So long, Germany!
It is your voice that is mostly ignored.
I'm well aware of that.
What I meant was that if Facebook doesn't deal with Germany then shouldn't they be able to simply say fuck off to them?
So you aren't speaking for the majority in Sweden after all.
I am speaking for the majority of the Swedes when it come to how many refugees should be brought it.
Immigration is still at the very top together with was it hospital and possibly school? among the Swedish people having dropped from being the single most important thing for the Swedish people. But before it haven't been the most important thing and for many it of course aren't and some even want more refugees. Anyway as such when people vote they vote on a party DUE OF A MULTITUDE OF REASONS not ONLY BECAUSE OF WHAT THEY IMMIGRATION POLITICS IS! Hence people haven't voted for the only party which has been against this retardness (a situation which likely happened because that party thought so and then everyone was like "oh no the Nazis are coming!" so they dug themselves deep onto the mud in a "Sweden for everyone or Nazi!"-message.)
Who exactly gives you the mandate to speak for the majority of the Europeans then?
I have no mandate to do so I just do so.
What idiots like you with your consistent lies don't mention is that there are polls which are made regarding immigration which for instance ask whatever Sweden should take in more or less immigrants and in such a poll less will come out higher than more consistently and as such obviously the Swedes want less immigrants. .. They aren't what one should vote for unless one is an ideological nutcase.
That they vote on traitor parties which don't care about that part and flood us with immigrants is a different story. Sure it's totally mental to vote on those idiots and traitors but they do so. Personally I myself have voted on the environmentalist party which are the most extreme when it comes to mass-immigration and I've done so for three elections in a row but I of course didn't do so because I loved immigrants so much I did so because I thought trying to solve the impact of global warming for instance once it had already happened would be more expensive than adjusting in an attempt to never let it go that far. I care about the environment and non-humans of the planet but that doesn't mean I want hundred of thousands of Muslims to come to my land every year. It's two different questions even if the same party may want to have both of them. It's one of the most progressive parties of Sweden but they are more or less complete nutcases with no care whatsoever to what happened to the people or the economy so
The last time I was in Sweden was in 1992 and people like you are the reason why it will stay that way.
Stay how? I guess you don't mean in Sweden but rather why you won't visit?
Back in 1992 we had the then highest flow of immigrants back then from former Yugoslavia, the anti-immigration movement was stronger back then but then the establishment more or less killed it but in their last attempt to keep on killing it by giving no influence to the Sweden democrats and by flooding Sweden with MORE immigrants in an attempt to show that voting for the Sweden democrats was futile backfired and now it's one of the three largest parties in Sweden so.. they kinda fucked that one up by making us desperate. They will likely try even more but then maybe people will act even more desperate.. Good times .. Idiots.
Same goes for Poland by the way.
Poland and Sweden isn't comparable. In Poland being against immigrant is totally common, they are a sane nation not flooded with that shit. The number of Swedes who talk like I do is a very small part of the Swedish population. Sure people think they have brought in too many immigrants but the people are friendly and don't want to upset others so
Interested in the results of this. Yesterday I reported a Facebook post that said "someone has to assassinate [American politician] ..". Today got a replay from the Facebook moderators that this was an okey dokey message. Well then..
Facebook outsources its functions in that regard, right ?
It outsources to low cost countries, like in SE Asia etc
Guess which religion Hassim or Sirjat the reviewer is most likely to be ?
Now guess which posts being critical of which religion will be classified as "hate speech" the most easily ?
Here's a hint....it's not the Christian, Buddhist or Hindu ones.......
Was bist du denn fürn Fake-Deutscher?
http://fagbug.com/
she's been driving around with hate speech on her car for 10 years now and made 2 movies about it.
... it's German law and fuck the rest of you.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Apparently not, otherwise idiots like you would be the government.
Then I have the same right to speak for the people of Europe and say "fuck you". Just because.
Quote one single lie I have said. Go on. I dare you.
You can't. Dumbass.
Nope, I won't visit. I'll spend my hard-earned German Euros elsewhere. If anything will ruin Sweden, then it will be this kind of an economic boycott, not the immigrants. Russia brought Turkey into submission with exactly that - tourists staying out.
Besides, Stockholm is quite boring, except maybe the Vasa museum, but it is not something that makes the country worth of revisiting.
Very much comparable, I think. Both countries are full of bad food, bad weather and bad people.
So you admit that you have lied when you have said that the majority of Swedish population thinks like you? So you are a dumbass and a liar. Yep, thanks for demonstrating that. It is like on a banner on a house in Berlin I've seen a couple of years ago: "Nazis sind dumm und haben kleine Pimmel". Swedish is similar enough to German for you to understand how well this sentence fits you and your kind.
Destroyed? You little shit don't know how a destroyed country looks like. I have seen several during my trips.
Sure people think they have brought in too many immigrants but the people are friendly and don't want to upset others so they will just shut up about it.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
Look the definition of censure, Herr Comrade
It clearly is censorship but that is the current German law. Views on freedom of speech differ by country.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
It's getting close to New Year's Eve. The German officials probably don't want as much coverage of those wild New Year's parties they have over there these days.
Really?? I hate that.
If the universe is someone's simulation -- does that mean the stars are just stuck pixels?
> In an interview published Friday, Justice Minister Heiko Maas said his ministry was checking whether it would be possible to make social networking sites legally liable for illegal posts.
and those people are complaining about Putin :-)
Jaja, aber Kartoffelbrei, ich bin mit der Fernsehrturm verheiraten.
If yelling FIRE was disallowed by the theater owner, that would be fine.
Also no talking during the movie.
There are many extremely strong restrictions and relaxations that people can agree to, and that is fine: No swearing in my barbershop. The boxers agree to punch each other in a boxing ring. The flutist in an orchestra agrees to breath as directed.
If the rules are unpopular, then people won't participate and they will provide alternatives. If some forums want to be NSFW and some want to be insult-free, then so be it.
The trouble is with un-owned or government-owned spaces, or venues that receive taxpayer money. Those are contentious because whatever rules will be decided will be one-size-fits-all monopoly rules.
Freedom of speech only pertains to government interference. Rationally, it is hard to justify the proportionality of using coercion (for example, fines with threats of prison and armed enforcement) in response to speech.
These comments are mine; I do not speak for my employer.
Thank you. Good to know there's still someone in Europe who understands the concept of freedom. I hope there's more of you over there. Gives me hope. Godspeed.
Germany's problem: exercised arbitrary force on other populations, got into WWI. Got ass kicked hard.
Germany's solution: Hey, Adolf Hitler! We like this guy! What could go wrong, eh?
Germany's new problem: exercised arbitrary force on its population and a large number of other populations, got into WWII, got ass kicked hard again.
Germany's solution: Hey, censorship for everyone here, and anyone else we can manage to apply force to!
Germany's new new, problem: exercises arbitrary force on their population and others (Facebook in this case, but there are many other instances) by repressing speech and personal liberty.
These people are simply stuck in an authoritarian rut. The worlds will probably have to kick their ass again eventually, because they still show little sign of being able to learn from their own mistakes.
Plus they <shudder> drink warm beer. </shudder>
Protip, German cluetards: Quite aside from the personal liberty issue you're blowing so badly here, it's always better to let the crazies sing, dance, speechify, and wear silly outfits. This way everyone knows who they are and you don't end up getting blindsided by some bastard(s) percolating in their own repressed hate for just a little too long. To be blunt, you know who to watch. Idiots have a very hard time not acting out if they think they can get away with it. That whole "you must not speak of this" business is basically a large-caliber footgun: you just don't know when it's going to go off.
I do not doubt any of these things. If you look at Cologne last year, the German authorities were initially attempting to cover up numerous assaults. The headline figure was 1500 sexual assaults in a single evening although the current number of convictions is around (IIRC) 18. Can you cite a single incident from the past 50 years where 1500 females have claimed to have been assaulted in a single evening by white German males?
Let me explain the problem. Labeling people xenophobic when they are not destigmatises the term. There has been a huge increase in Pepper-spray and firearms sales since the migrant crises began. Now I want you to tell me, what is statistically very likely to happen this NYE? Do you seriously think it's your 'xenophobic far-right' bogeyman responsible for creating this situation?
It's funny that people cite Hitler as an example of what could go wrong whilst ignoring that the violence that led to him consolidating power was instigated by the left. By dismissing genuine concerns over migrant crime and calling people xenophobic you are contributing to such a potential scenario. Best identify the problem and deal with it before psychotics and psychopaths (across the false dichotomy of the 'political divide') are able to dramatise and capitalise upon it.
Germany designed and built three submarines to carry Israel's illegal nuclear warheads, and gave these weapons of GENOCIDE for FREE to the zionist horrors. This is all you need to know about post-War Germany. Well you may also consider that homeschooling and education outside the State (ie zionist) school system is ILLEGAL in Germany, and Germany has no FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, instead choosing a system of zionist approved STATE SANCTIONED list of approved churches to one of which every German citizen must belong (and then is taxed to pay money to the church elders).
All of the social engineering, zero-freedom laws Hitler and the Nazis introduced were kept by the Soviets and Allies and still apply today to the German people (obviously in a zionist friendly form). Germany is more of an experiment than a nation (just like Australia).
Free speech, like freedom of conscience, is a Human Right unknown in Germany- and the Deep State isn't about to let that situation change.
And you turned out to be an guy who favors welfare for all and objects to any criticism of refugees. Gee, who saw that coming. You probably feel virtuous every time you post in favor of people-like-you, and horrified when other do just the same thing.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
There is a massive gap between genuine concerns and reality, and the latter are being enforced by the extreme right and welcomed by - yes, I say it again - a vocal xenophobic minority as an easy and convenient way to distort reality. Official police numbers clearly state that in cologne, 650 women have filed criminal complaints in regards to sexual assault. Not 1500. Does that negate the severity of that incident, or the utter incompetence of the cologne police force and justice system to cope with it? Of course not. Neither is that case proof for sexual assault by refugees being a common phenomenon. Instead, it shows quite well how xenophobia is being spread: by exaggeration and fearmongering. Same goes for the map you linked to. It is being used to distort reality and to cater to an audience that seeks affirmation of it's xenophobic views and fears. And that fearmongering, btw, is what sells pepper spray and "firearms" - actual firearms are, for most people, illegal to own in Germany, the rise in sales refers to CS gas pistols, blank guns and such. Oh, and you have to register by name to buy those.
Look, I acknowledge as much as anyone that of course there are criminals amongst those who enter our country as refugees. What I have a problem with is the claim that many, the majority or all of them are criminals. The statistics prove that migrants are no more criminal than german citizens. Anyone who claims to have proof that shows otherwise is a liar, incompetent or deluded by right-wing fearmongering.
And, to get back to the discussion about Facebook, you are right, I simply refuse to discuss politics with a violent racist that uses a comment section on facebook to threaten to kill refugees or to call for genocide - or threatens to kill me, for that matter. I see no common ground for discussion there. And for some reason, Facebook seems to think such threats are good for their business and somehow less wrong than posting a nipple pic. I have a problem with that, and so does the german law.
Yet this infamous leaflet was published in 2013? Imagine, authorities publishing advice for immigrants over behavioral patterns that only exist as a xenophobic, right-wing fantasy! If we take your figure of the Cologne incident, when was the last time white German males sexually assaulted 650 females in a single evening? I use "white German males" for want of a better phrase to describe men whose sociopolitical ideology does not promote the rape of females who do not subscribe to their religion.
No I'd say the map is representative, studies consistently show sexual crimes being under-reported. There are abundant reports of crimes where perpetrators are incorrectly described as European because the victim fears being labelled 'racist'. In my reading of the map, I suspected that an incident such as the sexual assualt of a minor in a swimming pool would have 3 entries. Of course, the map merely charts crimes by non-german nationals and a percentage will be committed by individuals from countries within the EU.
Indeed, I could have clarified that one.
What would happen if you were take 500 fighting age males from one poor, inner-city part of Germany and relocate them to another? Objecting to the social problems that would result could not be accurately described as xenophobia. And the demographic of migrants being primarily males in their 20's is only part of the problem. If you check the available statistics, then yes; Muslims are over-represented in prison populations throughout Europe.
I hear you. Threats of violence are completely unacceptable. My point is that censoring or shutting down debate where there are valid concerns is ultimately counterproductive. Assuming anybody discussing these issues to be xenophobic is likewise. As for this complete nonsense... it'd seemingly be more effective as a guide to spotting sociopaths (by which I mean the individuals who commissioned and authored it).
And the demographic of migrants being primarily males in their 20's is only part of the problem.
Again, a false claim that is happily repeated over and over by xenophobic fearmongers. Do the math:
Bundeszentrale für politische Bildung (sorry, german only)
Yet this infamous leaflet was published in 2013?
Wow, that again. Classic case in point. Xenophopic exaggeration and distortion of reality at it's finest.
Look at the whole picture of that "infamous leaflet". It's only infamous if you really, really want it to be that.
Germans love their rules, especially for their public pools. That leaflet represents a basic set of rules. Concentrating on one of the 13 cartoon images is cherrypicking whatever you can work with to spread hatred.Frankly, as far as respect for women is concerned, I have seen quite a few germans who would have benefitted from those cartoons quite a lot, as they were clearly incapable or unwilling to read and respect the written version of those rules. And btw, that leaflet is much, much older than the current refugee situation. So how can one single picture in it be proof that sexual assaults by refugees at swimming pools have increased so much that an educational leaflet just for them is necessary? And if it is, does it also prove that refugees don't shower, just because picture 1 tells them to?
I am really getting tired of this. You are trying to convince me of things that are proven to be wrong. Do you have anything to say that is not a blatant lie or vigorous bending of reality? I haven't seen anything so far. Therefor, I am now done here.
If the OTHER countries in the Levant (Saudi Arabia / Iran as the big actors)
Neither Saudi Arabia nor Iran are part of the Levant. Not even close to it.
Catalin Braescu
Ofaly.com
Saudi Arabia, Russia, Spain and UK officials will gleefully agree with you. Being mandated by law does not make it kosher.
Unfortunately for your math, it's a claim that is supported by the demographic of migrants across the continent. There are hotels minutes from my home that now house migrants and the majority are male, north African and in their early 20s. Quite possible some of them claimed to be minors and foolish immigration officials have committed a criminal offense by colluding with their fraudulent asylum applications. But hey...
That was the point I was making. If it was already common knowledge to German authorities before Merkels 'crises', how can in not be a concern now? How can the sexual assaults be a fabrication of 'far-right xenophobes' when this official document pre-dates the mass migrant influx?
Nothing has been proven wrong. The map is representative, I explained that sexual assaults are under-reported (est 20% in Sweeden and 75% in the UK) and that migrant crime is under-reported due to the fear of the victim being branded racist. Making an allowance for these statistical facts, erroneous multiple entries for a single crime can distort the picture but not so much as for the information to be considered wrong. The swimming pool leaflet really was published. Muslims really are over-represented in our prison populations. Liberal white families really are being labelled as far-right extremists for daring to criticise the murderous, misogynistic and pedophilic aspects of Islam.
..and it's all going to end very badly.
Oh and BTW: as a grandson of immigrants who has spent most of his life associating with immigrants and their 2nd and 3rd generation offspring (inc friends with muslim ancestory) - your constant implied use of the 'xenophobe' smear is laughable. I am a classical liberal and a rationalist and do not have any phobias.
Hey at least I'm not a guy who simply makes shit up rather than arguing the point.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Saudi Arabia, Russia, Spain and UK officials will gleefully agree with you. Being mandated by law does not make it kosher.
Didn't say it did; just that that is German law. Not all cultures have the same view of things like free speech, or others for that matter. Stating a fact does not mean one agrees with it.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
Hate is an emotion not a crime. I hope some German men grow some balls and through out the multiculturalism and perversity in Germany.
Facebook supports all sorts of censorship bullshit. They need to tell repressive governments to fuck off. People can still get to them through
holes in the countries firewalls.
There is only free speech or revolution...
1. There is a good reason to ban hate speech in Germany. We have had our experience with that in the past. People who believe that banning it infringes on free speech have not learned their history lesson. As soon as it is out of the box it will infect people's brains and it's hard to have a civil discussion about anything afterwards. That the alt right (neo fashists liars) are using that line of argument should make it obvious to anyone what this is about.
2. To all the turds who suffer brain damage and who claim that refugees are a problem in Europe are plain wrong. Every comment in this board which states something like that is a victim of at least one of these logical fallacies:
Division
Assuming that characteristics or beliefs of a group automatically apply to any individual member.
Composition
Assuming that characteristics or beliefs of some of a group applies to the entire group.
Anecdotal Evidence
Discounting evidence arrived at by systematic search or testing in favor of a few first hand stories.
Hasty Generalization
Drawing a general conclusion from a tiny sample.
Jumping to Conclusions
Drawing a quick conclusion without fairly considering relevant (and easily available) evidence.
Fun fact: 3.7% of Germans are Muslim (CIA Factbook)
Spotlight
Assuming an observation from a small sample size applies to an entire group
Sweeping Generalisation
Applying a general rule too broadly.
Appeal to Consequences of a Belief
Arguing a belief is false because it implies something you'd rather not believe.
Appeal to Spite
Dismissing a claim by appealing to personal bias against the claimant.
Begging the Question
Hiding other contributory factors and supporting the truth of your claim without any evidence other than the conclusion of your claim.
Biased Generalization
Generalizing from an unrepresentative sample to increase the strength of your argument.
Confirmation Bias
Looking only for evidence that supports your argument while ignoring contradicting evidence.
False Dilemma
Presenting two opposing options as the two options while hiding alternatives.
-I found even more in this forum but I'm tired of counting,
Conclusion
The logical fallacies are a product of your brains beeing affected by hate speech and the fear it incites! Therefore it might be a good idea to ban it.
Cheers
Umm, Germany is a German country.
There's rumors of secret treaties from the end of WW2, since when all German leaders had to sign a treaty guaranteeing to obey the allied, specially US overlords. Since its secret, noone can really know whether it is still true, or was true (e.g., up to 4+2 treaties), or never was true.
Probably, Trump likes to talk about all sorts of topics without thinking too much, he might disclose something. In the same way as he's going to disclose all the secrets about extra-terrestials.
Kristallnacht!
It's not like they enslave and massacre by religion, destroy history by demolishing religiously significant artifacts and buildings and deny holocaust!
so let's do it again just to rub it in:
Somehow I knew this would come down to the oppression of the poor white man. Care to double down and throw in some white genocide?
Your post is just another example of it.
The whole point of your post is that it's ok to treat the white man as shit and that white genocide doesn't matter.
There's not really much to argue about or against it. You express it and show it yourself.
In Sweden it's viewed as totally fine to threat white men in whatever negative way, it's good and doesn't matter whatsoever and if white men think that's bad or unfair then who the fuck gives a shit?
Also it's common to think that white-genocide is good anyway so who cares? If all white especially men died / went away the world would be a better place anyway so even if there was a white-genocide it would be good and is totally unproblematic.
It's the white (male) privilege. The privilege to don't matter, be blamed for everything and having everyone else gain an advantage against you on race (and sex) alone.
That's why (left/socialist/black lives matter/Muslim?) anti-racist is a code-word for anti-white and left/female feminism is just anti-male / pro-female sexism.
Yeah I know you saw that one coming. And it doesn't matter. It's still the truth and you've got nothing to do or say against it. You prove it yourself.
Enjoy your new fuck-hole.
It's the person making the original claim that needs to support it, parent AC (not me) was just (rightly) pointing out that the alt-right circlejerking echo chamber are too lazy/stupid to actually check the data for themselves. I disagree, I don't think it is due to being lazy or stupid, I think that kind of disconnect with reality is due to being clinically insane.