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US Puts Bumblebee On the Endangered Species List For First Time (npr.org)

For the first time for a bumblebee and a bee species in the U.S., the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has designated the bumblebee an endangered species. The protected status goes into effect on February 10, and includes requirements for federal protections and the development of a recovery plan. NPR reports: "Today's Endangered Species listing is the best -- and probably last -- hope for the recovery of the rusty patched bumble bee," NRDC Senior Attorney Rebecca Riley said in a statement from the Xerces Society, which advocates for invertebrates. "Bumble bees are dying off, vanishing from our farms, gardens, and parks, where they were once found in great numbers." Large parts of the Eastern and Midwestern United States were once crawling with these bees, Bombus affinis, but the bees have suffered a dramatic decline in the last two decades due to habitat loss and degradation, along with pathogens and pesticides. Indeed, the bee was found in 31 states and Canadian provinces before the mid- to late-1990s, according to the final rule published in the Federal Register. But since 2000, it has been reported in only 13 states and Ontario, Canada. It has seen an 88 percent decline in the number of populations and an 87 percent loss in the amount of territory it inhabits. This means the species is vulnerable to extinction, the rule says, even without further habitat loss or insecticide exposure. Canada designated the species as endangered in 2012.

77 of 130 comments (clear)

  1. Roundup backpack=bad ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Meanwhile my Dad is outside with his roundup backpack, spraying a big circle around the house...Chemical warfare against nature just isn't working out how we thought it might!

    1. Re:Roundup backpack=bad ? by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's not the roundup that's doing it, it's neonicotinoid insecticides. If you wanted to specifically design something to genocide bees, neonic insecticides would be about as close to ideal as you could get. So the solution to the problem would be to put neonics on the endangered-species list, and hope they fade out of the environment before the bees do.

    2. Re:Roundup backpack=bad ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Well. Indirectly, it does. Roundup kills many "weed" that are actually useful wild plants that bumblebees feed on. The western "green grass patch" is an ecological desert. No flowers for insects to feed on, no insects for birds to feed on...

      If you let your grass grow a little wild your garden will attract many small creatures, and shortly after many birds, and mammals such as hedgehogs who feed on insects... Then you can spend a lot of fun times with family observing nature without going far away from home.

      Also Roundup fumes are probably giving your dad cancer right now. Maybe you could talk him out of using this shit, no?

    3. Re:Roundup backpack=bad ? by leathered · · Score: 2

      Roundup isn't bad, it's been with us for over 40 years, rapidly breaks down in the environment and has long been out of patent. It may well be a suspected carcinogen but that's nothing that sensible handling procedures can't mitigate.

      --
      For all intensive porpoises your a bunch of rediculous loosers
    4. Re:Roundup backpack=bad ? by gymell · · Score: 2

      Not only that, but habitat loss due to agriculture and development. The good news is that as individuals we can do something to help right in our own yards, simply by reducing/eliminating lawns (which is an ecological desert), planting native plants and avoiding the use of chemicals. It's really amazing how the pollinators respond to that. I haven't had any rusty patched bees yet that I've seen in my yard, but have had many other species and hope to see a rusty patched at some point.

    5. Re:Roundup backpack=bad ? by plover · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The problem is that neonicotinoids are about as close to an ideal insecticide as we could hope to have. They're effective on a broad spectrum of insects, they don't harm plants, and they're really quite safe around mammals. For example, dinotefuran has an oral and dermal LD50 in rats of > 2000mg/kg, is not known to be carcinogenic, and is not known to be a neurotoxin. It's also essentially non-toxic to birds, fish, and aquatic invertebrates (important because of chemical run-off.) I'm not saying I'd sprinkle it on my breakfast cereal, but I wouldn't get sick from it.

      They just happen to be 50 times as lethal to bees as to any other insect. So even the lowest doses used to control economically damaging pests are still going to kill huge numbers of bees, because the tainted nectar and pollen that comes back with the bees feeds the colonies.

      I really like the stuff for INDOOR control of greenhouse pests. Outdoors, I won't use it.

      --
      John
    6. Re:Roundup backpack=bad ? by boskone · · Score: 2

      i agree, but there is a fine balance, as these compounds are the best defense we have against WDOs like carpenter ants. I can attest that they work well in those cases.

      I wonder if much stricter compliance to labeled usage would be helpful?

    7. Re:Roundup backpack=bad ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      The problem isn't with his dad, the problem is with the government not outlawing these insecticides. The government allows them knowing the negative effects they have on bees and regular joe thinks they are fine because they are allowed to be sold and bought. Not everyone reads scientific studies on the effects of these insecticides, most think that if there was something wrong with them the government wouldn't allow it, but that is unfortunately not the case.

    8. Re:Roundup backpack=bad ? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      There are no hedgehogs indigenous in America.

    9. Re:Roundup backpack=bad ? by vektros · · Score: 1

      There are no hedgehogs indigenous in America.

      I found one in my yard before. We lived out in the country at the time.

    10. Re:Roundup backpack=bad ? by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      GMO modifed vegatation is poison to Bumblebees. Who creates GMO modifed Vegatation and Fruits too.

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
  2. This is one type; others have less decline by Fencepost · · Score: 5, Informative
    Just to note, this is not all bumblebees, it's the Rusty Patched bumblebee that's been put on the endangered list. Other bumble bees are still around, though most other types have also been declining. The range for this particular type is a rough triangle from the Dakotas down to northern Georgia and up to central Maine.

    If you want information including things that you might be able to do take a look at Bumble Bee Watch (http://www.bumblebeewatch.org/) or the Xerces Society page on bumblebees (http://www.xerces.org/bumblebees/). The University of Maine in Farmington has also been tracking the decline of several of the species native to Maine (http://mainebumblebeeatlas.umf.maine.edu/), and other state universities may have similar programs going on.

    --
    fencepost
    just a little off
    1. Re:This is one type; others have less decline by sabbede · · Score: 1
      I live in North(ish) Georgia, and have bumblebees digging holes in my deck. I try not to kill them since they're a generally decent insect, but sometimes it happens.

      I guess what I have must not be this rusty bee.

    2. Re:This is one type; others have less decline by gtall · · Score: 1

      Are you sure they are bumblebees? Digging holes is something I'd expect from hornets or wasps.

      In late summer (although not last summer), I get yellow jackets digging holes in my yard. I used to think they were hornets but they are wasps. Anyhow, running over a nest hole with the lawn mower generally unleashes the Horde from Hell and they don't stop stinging until you more or less assicate the area and kill those that came along as you run for your life.

      I found the cure. They like to sleep in in the early morning. So I go out with can of insecticide, any will do, and squirt some into the hole. Then I plug the hole with that foaming insulation in a can, stick the straw down in there and let'er rip. Sometimes they are able to dig themselves out but not generally. A second treatment seems to finish off any of the smart ones. Works like a charm. After they are gone, pluck off the foam potato generated by the insulation and throw it out. I generally leave them in until the leaves fall so I know what holes have been plugged and to check for any escapees.

    3. Re:This is one type; others have less decline by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 1

      I live in North(ish) Georgia, and have bumblebees digging holes in my deck.

      Those are carpenter bees and not bumble bees. The males don't even have a stinger. Only the females do.

    4. Re:This is one type; others have less decline by Bigbutt · · Score: 2

      Carpenter Bees. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      I had them burrow into the fascia for my deck when I lived in Virginia. If you sit on the deck, you can hear them chewing away.

      [John]

      --
      Shit better not happen!
    5. Re:This is one type; others have less decline by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 1

      I get yellow jackets digging holes in my yard. I used to think they were hornets but they are wasps. Anyhow, running over a nest hole with the lawn mower generally unleashes the Horde from Hell and they don't stop stinging until you more or less assicate the area and kill those that came along as you run for your life.

      Those yellow jackets are nasty little bastards. I didn't have any luck with the traditional bee sprays. I spoke to a bee keeper and he recommended the pellet type insecticide that you use to kill ants and grubs and such. That was the only way I could get rid of them. I had three nests in my yard last summer. None of them were where I could directly run over them with a lawn mower, but they stung the hell out of me if I got within 20 feet of the nest. I hadn't been stung by a bee in at least thirty years prior to last summer.

    6. Re:This is one type; others have less decline by KenLefebvre · · Score: 2

      I wish. As someone who has worked in an entomology lab 6 years ago, it was almost unheard of to collect this species. Only one species of bumblebee is really doing so well, B. impatiens. The others, including this one, have become rarer with each year of collection, we have Cornell drawers of specimens from surveys and every year they become less and less diverse. Some species are really much better at adjusting to new pesticides than others.

    7. Re:This is one type; others have less decline by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 1

      I had them burrow into the fascia for my deck when I lived in Virginia. If you sit on the deck, you can hear them chewing away.

      I caught one boring a whole in my deck. They can chew quite fast. I happened to have a garden spade in my hand, so I chopped it in half while it's head was embedded in the wood. Those are ones you don't want to let go of, or you'll have a massive problem.

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    8. Re:This is one type; others have less decline by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      Just to note, this is not all bumblebees, it's the Rusty Patched bumblebee that's been put on the endangered list.

      Libertarians will simply claim that this is the Free Market at work.

      Obviously no one wanted those dang Rusty Patched bumblebees and so they're dying off. They just weren't popular enough or couldn't get their message out or whatever.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    9. Re:This is one type; others have less decline by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Get them early, they get really aggressive as fall approaches.

      A bucket and 10lbs of dry ice will wipe out a nest. In the evening (just prior to sundown), watching from a distance, note the location of the nest openings.

      In the morning (before dawn) put a block of dry ice on each opening, cover with an upside down bucket, you will asphyxiate the whole nest.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    10. Re:This is one type; others have less decline by Reziac · · Score: 1

      Has it been determined if this is actually a species, or just localized markings like with the so-called spotted owl?

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    11. Re:This is one type; others have less decline by sabbede · · Score: 1
      My understanding is that there aren't any true hornets in (or at least native to) North America, only wasps that look like somewhat hornetey. That said, I absolutely despise yellow jackets. They messed me up good when I was a kid (never did shake the phobia), and I hate them and want them all to die horribly.

      I usually hit the entrance(s) to the nest with wasp killer (usually dusk, dawn is too early), give it a day or so to work, and then jam a garden hose in the hole and turn on the faucet for a bit. Fuck those things.

    12. Re:This is one type; others have less decline by sabbede · · Score: 1

      My uncle liked to use gasoline. I never got to see him do it though.

    13. Re:This is one type; others have less decline by sabbede · · Score: 1

      Well, I guess I'd rather have bumble bees.

    14. Re:This is one type; others have less decline by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      The dry ice method will leave you with edible vegetables grown nearby and works better.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    15. Re:This is one type; others have less decline by sabbede · · Score: 1

      Yes, but gasoline has the potential to be far more entertaining.

    16. Re:This is one type; others have less decline by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Especially when the fumes catch and set your ass on fire. Post video on youtube for $0.001 per view, you'll make dozens of dollars.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    17. Re:This is one type; others have less decline by sabbede · · Score: 1

      Dozens is more than nozens!

  3. thanks Monsanto ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    thanks Monsanto !

    1. Re:thanks Monsanto ! by coinreturn · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Things like "noxious weed acts" which destroy plants that support bumblebee populations. Pushed by environmentalists in big cities to get rid of flowering plants which cause allergies. That in turn allowed herbicide spraying to kill or keep them under control. That leads to widespread destruction of flowering areas for the sake of green grass/reduce air allergens. Need another example? Monarch butterflies. Mass population decline, what's the strong correlation? Same noxious weed acts which banned/required destruction of milkweed. Most places have rescinded that. But it wasn't more then a year or two ago in most of north america you could be fined for having it growing on your property because it was considered a weed..

      WTF have you been smoking? Envrionmentalists don't push noxious weed acts or anything that sacrifices plants for reduced air allergens. Most of North America you could be fined for having milkweed growing on your property? I've lived in four states and 9 houses in my time, and I've never lived in one of your alleged exclusion zones.

    2. Re:thanks Monsanto ! by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Things like "noxious weed acts" which destroy plants that support bumblebee populations. Pushed by environmentalists in big cities to get rid of flowering plants which cause allergies.

      [citation needed]

      Specifically, you will need to show that the bulk of support for such initiatives comes from environmentalists. Good luck!

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:thanks Monsanto ! by Ogive17 · · Score: 1

      But it wasn't more then a year or two ago in most of north america you could be fined for having it growing on your property because it was considered a weed.

      Since you said most of NA, please list a few examples.

      --
      "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
    4. Re:thanks Monsanto ! by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That environmentalists push for it.

      You certainly have a point that many cities have created environmental problems by banning "natural" and "native" plants.

      On the other hand, it's interesting that the sentence I quoted ("The environmentalists push for it") is one with no citation. You seem to be from Canada; I'm not as familiar with environmental politics there. But the U.S. at least, weed ordinances in cities are hardly pushed by environmentalists as that term is commonly understood in the U.S. The laws may be pushed by local busybodies worried about their neighbor who doesn't keep a monoculture lawn precisely mowed and instead chooses to let wildflowers and such grow more freely -- which some people consider "unkempt." Those people may be concerned about their neighborhood "environment" in the sense that they believe that some mid-20th century suburban ideal of the well-kept lawn is the only possible plantlife that should be seen in the city. But I really doubt anyone calls them "environmentalists" except ironically.

    5. Re:thanks Monsanto ! by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 2

      I forgot one obvious exception -- weed ordinances targeting invasive NON-native plants are often endorsed by environmentalists, but such plants are generally a serious threat to local flora.

    6. Re:thanks Monsanto ! by coinreturn · · Score: 1

      WTF have you been smoking?

      Reality. What have you been snorting where you don't realize this has been happening? You can be fined for it. That environmentalists push for it. That the favorite blame game is "Monsanto". That the brainchild was the environmentalism of the 70's and 80's, and is such a bad problem that provinces and states now actively encourage planting it. Want to bury your head in the sand? Feel free. The reality is far different, and is probably one of the best examples of environmentalism running amok to the point where it actively damages the environment. Hell if you dig hard through provincial records for example here in Ontario from the 1980's you can find environmental groups actively pushing for the use of broad-spectrum herbicides in order to control particular plant species and stating that the destruction and loss of native species outweighs the bad in controlling others.

      A few reports of particular cities banning weeds over a certain height does NOT support your claim that not more than a year or two ago in most North America you could be fined for growing milkweed. And no support for "environmentalists pushing" for such weed laws.

    7. Re:thanks Monsanto ! by CronoCloud · · Score: 2

      The Natgeo link doesn't refer to fines at all, and the fine links seem to refer to the same few cases so apparently it isn't a widespread problem

      Also the anti-weed ordinances seem to be about "appearance" and weren't supported by actual environmentalists.

      So, yet another Mashiki right wing echo chamber strawman argument

    8. Re:thanks Monsanto ! by dryeo · · Score: 1

      It's been along time (1981) since I wrote my pesticide ticket but it was pretty simple which weeds got on the noxious weed list. Invasive plants that interfered with industry. Things like Siberian Knapweed that devastated the ranchers range land and things like buttercups that fuck with haying and general farming.
      Now they've been adding plants like Japanese Knotweed that are very invasive and majorly damage property and then there's that one I can't think of the name of that makes you very photosensitive if you get some sap on your skin.
      As for the environmentalists, they've always been pushing for less pesticides, to the point where now most cosmetic pesticides are next to impossible to even find. Previously they'd push for things like banning DDT and would only meet with success when industry agreed, due to the insects having evolved to enjoy a DDT snack instead of dieing. I do know that there are a lot more eagles and such around then when I was young.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    9. Re:thanks Monsanto ! by dywolf · · Score: 1

      find the nearest wall, and please direct your head at it repeatedly, until all the stupid falls out.

      Bald Eagle population, early 20th century": ~500,000, in the lower 48 (wasn't called the lower 48 at time; wasn't even 48 states at the time)
      Bald Eagle population, 1950s: 412 nesting pairs in the ENTIRE lower 48 states. Alaska saw similar declines, and so did Canada
      Bald Eagle population, late 90s: each state had at least 100 breeding pairs, total population in US est at ~100,000.

      Due to biomagnification DDT accumulated in the bird's bodies, and while not lethal, prevented calcium ion absorbtion which in turn impaired their ability to make egg shells. The result was thinner eggs, eggs unable to bear the weight of a nesting bird, which lead to crushed, and thus nonviable, eggs.

      It happened to the Eagles, Robins, Pelicans, many bird species.
      The population increased because the problem was identified, and then corrected.
      when you have an oil leak in your car, do you get it corrected, and then because its corrected, deny it ever happened in the first place?

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
  4. So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ...errr pollen.

  5. Not so endangered by sabbede · · Score: 1

    that my deck isn't full of holes they dug into the wood.

    1. Re:Not so endangered by dugancent · · Score: 1

      Carpenter bees bore into wood. Bumblebees are typically ground dwelling and dig holes in soft soil.

      --
      SJWs are the new boogeyman. -Me
    2. Re:Not so endangered by sabbede · · Score: 1

      Is it my fault they looks so much alike? No, it's theirs. Stupid lazy bees can't be bothered to look different...

  6. Re:Law of Aerodynamics by sabbede · · Score: 1

    Wouldn't it work more like when Will E. Coyote runs off a cliff and doesn't fall till he looks down?

  7. Lobbyists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    .So the solution to the problem would be to put neonics on the endangered-species list, and hope they fade out of the environment before the bees do.

    Then the pesticide industry will lobby the Republicans saying how it'll hurt business and jobs and profits. Eventually, there will be some sort of phase out agreed to that will take ten years for the pesticides to be stopped.

    In the meantime, there will be this PR blitz stating that the science isn't in and that the scientists who study it are saying the pesticides are killing bees because that's the only way they can get grants.

    Eventually, as our bees get destroyed and the skyrocketing of food prices, the EPA will be blamed for all the unnecessary regulations that caused the problem in the first place.

    Cigarette smoking, Air conditioning refrigerant, lead in gasoline are just a couple of instances off of the top of my head where business has put profits above human health. What a warped society we have where it's considered a valid argument to put corporate profits above human health.

    1. Re:Lobbyists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's no need for lobbyists any more, they're all sitting at the heads of the departments now anyway.

      Drain the swamp? More like employ it.

    2. Re:Lobbyists by silentcoder · · Score: 5, Informative

      That's exactly what DID happen when the EU banned Neonics a year or two ago. Bayer has been on a massive add-campaign ever since to try to get the ban lifted by claiming their pesticides are totally harmless to bees, bees actually like the stuff - they thrive when you spray them with it and think of all the job losses if we our massive multinational company has one less product to sell (which somehow didn't stop them from refusing to sell lethal injection meds to the US) etc. etc. etc.

      Eventually they managed to raise enough dust to get the EU Safety Authority to set up a review committee to reconsider the decision. At time of writing the committee's results are not yet in... but I somehow have this idea that a lot of the committee members have been living large of late...

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    3. Re:Lobbyists by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2

      they thrive when you spray them with it

      Plants Crave Electrolytes

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    4. Re:Lobbyists by Jfetjunky · · Score: 3, Informative

      This type of thing already did happen once with DDT. It was a bit of fight, but it did happen. People expressed concern about it for ~10 years or so before it was finally banned. It was pretty strongly connected to population decline in many birds.

    5. Re:Lobbyists by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 1

      Same with amiton. OTOH that was one they should have kept, it's one of the few things that'll deal with things like passion vine hoppers, which are almost unkillable with other insecticides.

  8. What if.... by AndyKron · · Score: 1

    So if I swat a bumblebee I could go to jail, and lose my right to a gun and to vote?

    1. Re:What if.... by dwillden · · Score: 5, Funny

      Even worse, when a Federal Agent overhears your kid singing about brining home a baby bumble bee at preschool and throws him or her into jail.

      --
      I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
    2. Re:What if.... by The-Ixian · · Score: 3, Funny

      To be fair, they would have to sing "bringing home a baby rusty patched bumblebee..."

      --
      My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
    3. Re:What if.... by djinn6 · · Score: 2

      A bumblebee colony is a super organism. Any single worker bee is expendable. I think you can argue you didn't really harm them unless you damaged the beehive, which is what is necessary for them to continue to reproduce.

  9. Woosh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I think Maritz was doing Trump sarcasm.... not actually claiming some big conspiracy to fund their research.

    My guess is Trump'll blame the bumblee deaths on a conspiracy of his enemies in league with NASA and NOAA in league with other bumblebees.

    If you didn't get todays Trump big conspiracy, he just said that Democrats and Republicans had conspired to make up the Russian spy claims, and its all the work of political sleazebag operatives. He promises a new report within 90 days that will totally exonerate Russia. (Which is odd, because the dossier reported Kremlin was grooming non entity called Michael Flynn in August, and Trump didn't choose Flynn till November, which means Putin knew Trump's appointees before Trump announced them, which confirms Trump's is a traitor to his country.

    1. Re:Woosh by rmdingler · · Score: 1

      My guess is Trump'll blame the bumblee deaths on a conspiracy of his enemies in league with NASA and NOAA in league with other bumblebees.

      If you didn't get todays Trump big conspiracy, he just said that Democrats and Republicans had conspired to make up the Russian spy claims, and its all the work of political sleazebag operatives. He promises a new report within 90 days that will totally exonerate Russia.

      Sad to see the bumblebee endangered, but it is equally unpleasant to witness the near extinction of respectable politicians. I'm not a fan of Trump, but if the media had done a better job of delivering news instead of trying to influence opinion, we wouldn't be in this wagon.

      Repeated attempts to spin everything positive or negative, depending of the sphere of intended influence, has worn thin on folks and made the crooked press a mud-slinging that sticks.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    2. Re: Woosh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Umm, the current Monsanto infiltrators of the Department of Agriculture were appointed by Obama.

  10. unintened consequences by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Now when a landowner (farmer) sees any natural beehive they will destroy it quietly and remove all evidence it was there. There is enough history to know that once an endangered species appears on your land it effectively is not your land any more. Nobody is going to take the chance that they now have to grow bee food.
    Nobody admits to this of course but SSS applies here in full.

    If the EPA is worried about this species of bees not surviving, seed them on every piece of public land in their natural habitat. Don't implement a policy that is going to turn the public against all bees.

    1. Re:unintened consequences by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      I don't think you understand. The bees don't live IN the actual field, they live AROUND it so you're seeing a problem where there isn't one.

  11. I blame by Kohath · · Score: 1

    the Decepticons. They're bringing the Age of Extinction!

  12. This is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    A Buzzworthy story.

  13. Just hope it's not on your property! by raymorris · · Score: 1

    Sure you'll go to jail and probably lose your right to vote if you swat at a bee now, but the big thing is you better hope it's not at your house. If an endangered species decides to visit your property, your house becomes property of the bee. You lose all rights to use your property as you need to, because rust bubble bees are far more important than people. Of course that doesn't excuse you from paying the mortgage - you still owe the bank. The EPA isn't going to pay off your mortgage for you, theyv just tell you you can't use your property anymore. It belongs to the bee, in case he decides to come back.

    As someone else said, if you've got a half million dollar mortgage on a farm and you spot a bee or other endangered species visiting your farm, you have two choices:

    A) Stop farming and producing income to pay your mortgage, ceding control of your property to the visiting bug. You'll go bankrupt, of course, with no farm income to pay the mortgage.

    B) Quickly and very quietly destroy any evidence that the bug ever flew across your property. You can then continue to earn a living.

    Note that (b) is illegal. Legally, you must do (a) because democrats don't understand that reality isn't governed by liberal ideals. The actual laws of physics and the way things really work aren't a folk song, unfortunately.

    1. Re:Just hope it's not on your property! by mark-t · · Score: 1

      You exaggerate. My wife used to work for a company that was affected by this once, and it's nowhere near as bad as you say.

    2. Re:Just hope it's not on your property! by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      How bad is it then? Do tell.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    3. Re:Just hope it's not on your property! by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Ideally, the creatures' presence does not impact you, and you do not affect them, so you can both go about your business as usual. If this is not feasible, then you must relocate them without harming them. There are companies that specialize in this kind of thing, and the place that my wife worked for contracted such a company for their purposes. After the creatures have been evacuated, you are generally permitted to use any passive measures you desire to discourage reincursion. You are categorically *NOT* permitted to do anything that harms the creatures that may come into your property as a means of keeping them off of your property.

      So yes... it is an inconvenience, and a potentially very expensive one, but it usually doesn't have to spell the end of your entire business.

    4. Re:Just hope it's not on your property! by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Interesting.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  14. So what kind of fine do you pay.... by mark-t · · Score: 1

    ... if one gets splatted on your windshield while driving?

  15. Why are only good animals endangered? by no1nose · · Score: 1

    Why can't the mosquito or Lyme disease tick be endangered?

    1. Re:Why are only good animals endangered? by bussdriver · · Score: 1

      Because mosquitos and ticks are admired by Monsanto.

    2. Re:Why are only good animals endangered? by The-Ixian · · Score: 1

      I am guessing they could be, actually. It is just that the thing that makes these animals "bad" is their quantity.

      --
      My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
    3. Re:Why are only good animals endangered? by heteromonomer · · Score: 1

      A great question indeed. As a biologist, this would be my guess. Non-parasitic organisms are usually quite specific in their needs, i.e. in terms of what they eat, and habitat needs. Like an honest employee or a businessman would need a civilized society and infrastructure to survive and thrive. On the other hand, animal parasites (e.g. mosquitoes and ticks) are like thieves. They are non-specific and get away easily.

    4. Re:Why are only good animals endangered? by DamnOregonian · · Score: 1

      Because mosquitos and ticks are admired by Monsanto.

      Unsurprising that the sociopath executives running the joint admire themselves

  16. 'Bumblebee' on endangered species list by lbalbalba · · Score: 1

    Oh, no ! First 'Optimus Prime' dies, and now this ?

  17. A bit of scientific background here by caseih · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Bumble bees disappearing is alarming, and it could have a number of causes but no one is quite yet sure exactly what is the main cause or if several causes are combining (likely). I've been to several research presentations lately from scientists researching bee health and bee loss. They know that neonics kill bees (they kill lots of insects). But the thing you have to realize is that very few farmers apply neonics as a spray where it kills indiscriminately. Almost all neonic use is in seed treatments that go underground and make the plants toxic to insects that would eat them. Also, bees (but not bumblebees) are doing quite well in areas that have high use of neonic seed treatments, like Alberta.

    In other areas the situation is not nearly as good for many bee species. And neonics are suspected to play a role, though neonics are usually not sprayed. What it could be is vacuum planters planting corn and beans are blowing neonic-laced dust into the air which is causing the damage. In Alberta, planting is largely done with air seeders which blow dust into the soil, not the air, where bees are not exposed nearly as much to it.

    So things aren't as simple as the comments so far want to make it. Banning of neonic spray does make some sense. But if they were banned outright, to save the food crops farmers will have to spray more insecticides on the plants during the early growth stages, which is ultimately more harmful to everyone. Not only does that kill problem insects, it kills bumble bees and beneficials indiscriminately.

    One final comment on habitat loss. This indeed could be contributing. As far as farmland goes, though, very little land is being converted from wild to farming in North America these days. Nearly all habitat loss comes from urban development. So don't go blaming farmers for habitat loss in that regard. As well, the US and Canada has quite large wilderness areas that have never been touched by agriculture, and bumble bees seem to be in decline everywhere. And it could be that climate change is playing as big a role as neonics ever did in this decline.

    It's a complicated story. Likely humans play a major role, but how to fix this no on really knows.

  18. Obsolete truism by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    In the late 1980s computer power got good enough to model bee wings that flex and they were allowed to fly again.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  19. Re:Law of Aerodynamics by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

    Someone finally clued in the bees they are violating the Law of Aerodynamics and they're just dropping out of the sky.

    Urban myth, it is well known how they fly, they USE aerodynamics.

    http://www.snopes.com/science/...

  20. Re:Nobody uses roundup on lawns! by bodog · · Score: 2

    " it kills ALL plant life with almost zero exceptions."

    Superweeds? They are being selected for by RoundUp as we type :)