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Petition With Over 1 Million Signatures Urges President Obama To Pardon Snowden (cnet.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from CNET: More than 1 million people signed onto a petition asking President Barack Obama to pardon Edward Snowden, proponents of the pardon said Friday. The campaign began in September, when Snowden, his attorney Ben Wizner from the ACLU, and other privacy activists announced they would formally petition Obama for a pardon. Snowden leaked classified NSA documents detailing surveillance programs run by the U.S. and its allies to journalists in 2013, kicking off a heated debate on whether Americans should be willing to sacrifice internet privacy to help the government protect the country from terrorist attacks. Obama and White House representatives have said repeatedly that Snowden must face the charges against him and that he'll be afforded a fair trial. In the U.S., a pardon is "an expression of the president's forgiveness and ordinarily is granted in recognition of the applicant's acceptance of responsibility for the crime and established good conduct for a significant period of time after conviction or completion of sentence," according to the Office of the Pardon Attorney. It does not signify innocence. Also on Friday, David Kaye urged Obama to consider a pardon for Snowden. Kaye, the special rapporteur to the United Nations Human Rights Council on the freedom of expression, said U.S. law doesn't allow Snowden to argue that his disclosures were made for the benefit of the public. The jury would merely be asked to decide whether Snowden stole government secrets and distributed them -- something Snowden himself concedes he did. In response to the petition, Edward Snowden tweeted: "Whether or not this President ends the war on whistleblowers, you've sent a message to history: I feared no one would care. I was wrong."
Snowden embarrassed the Obama administration. As much as I think he should be pardoned and let back onto US soil, Obama won't do it. Trump certainly won't either.
Lets live in reality people.
"Well kids, you tried your best, and you failed. The lesson is, never try." -Homer Simpson
At this point, what's the upside for President Obama? It will no doubt set off a flurry of criticism which won't stop once he leaves office. He seems to want to live gracefully and pardoning Snowden would prevent that and potentially complicate any post-presidency political plans he may have and impact his legacy. The popular story won't be "Obama pardons brave whistleblower" but "Obama pardons traitor who helped Russia." The truth and moral arguments will get lost in the noise, especially since it is easier to vilify than explain the nuances, so the political calculus is to simply leave the mess for the next guy to deal with and move on.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
The guy deserves an apology.
I signed the petition. An agency of my government was breaking the public trust, lying to legislators, and breaking the law. It was Mr. Snowden's duty to report this, and it is a travesty to take away his life for defending his country against itself.
Why would you repeat such an obvious untruth? Given that this subject comes up every time any such story is published, I have a hard time believing that you have never been exposed to it before. Nevertheless it apparently needs to be explained, you can be pardoned at any time at the President's discretion, whether or not you have been convicted. Those of us who are old enough will remember when this happened to Richard Nixon.
Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
Again? I'm already on that list for liking Wikileaks on Facebook.
Sure he can!
It's a busy time right now! Right? RIGHT?
And even so, it's simple enough to say "No.", couched in suitably political terms.
You know what I'm talking about.
At this time *EVIL RUSSIA! EVIL RUSSIA!* we don't have enough information *EVIL RUSSIA! EVIL RUSSIA!* on the situation to make us comfortable pardoning him for stealing secrets and giving them to EVIL RUSSIA!
Basically, what would have happened to him, had he come home is he would have become Bradley/Chelsea Manning Mark 2.
He'd have been dumped in a prison. Rotted for a while. Then announced that he'd decided to cut his dick off and live as a woman. Turning him into a complete laughingstock meme and totally detracting from what actually happened.
I think Snowden likes his cock and balls right where they are...
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
The chance that Obama will send a sniper or drone is much more likely. He and Hillary are trying to heat up the cold war with Russia for a long time now, so this might be a nice attempt to further it even more. Especially because Putin can't let something like that go because he will be looked at as weak if he does.
... (or won't) after all he hasn't been to a trial yet, just accused. That might be true or not, but he already spoke about it on November. He wont pardon him.
The problem with Snowden is that Snowden released at least two very different types of data: 1. Data that shows potentially or actually illegal domestic actions. 2. Data that shows operational details on entirely legal foreign operations. There is a good case to be made about the former, but there is absolutely no legal or moral basis for a pardon on the latter. What Snowden did was not stop at reporting likely law-breaking, but essentially depantsed the NSA WRT its operational capabilities and techniques. That would be like waving a case like some village massacre in one hand and then holding a binder in the other hand that happens to contain the operational status of every military unit in theater, along with personnel names, the whole shebang that would allow an enemy to greatly step up their game. No, for the 2nd point Snowden really has to go to prison if he comes back, and he knows it.
> Now, THEREFORE, I, GERALD R. FORD, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9, 1974.
Strange, so the US forgot how the systems work too for some time, it seems.
"Under the Constitution, the president may pardon only persons convicted or accused of federal crimes and offenses prosecuted by the United States Attorney for the District of Columbia in the name of the United States in the D.C."
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/thepresidentandcabinet/fl/Presidential-Pardons-Legal-Guidelines.htm
So even being accused means he can be pardoned.
He needs at least 60 million people who care to affect the outcome. 1 million is just noise to politicians who serve their financiers and still win the vote.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
So, yes, Obama can pardon Snowden.
If you reply, do so only to what I explicitly wrote. If I didn't write it, don't assume or infer it.
The entire Trump administration is a perfect Bizarro world. Anti-school as sec of ed, anti-vaxxer running vaccine study, etc... I don't think it's even possible that Snowden doesn't get a pardon on Jan 22. It'll be part of the new US-Russian intelligence partnership.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Psh. A pre-emptive pardon can still be issued. A century and a half ago, SCotUS explicitly determined that except for cases of impeachment, presidential pardon power "extends to every offence known to the law, and may be exercised at any time after its commission, either before legal proceedings are taken, or during their pendency, or after conviction and judgment". Where do people get the notion that such a pardon can only be issued after a trial?
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Dumbshit, W already pardoned the telcos. Go fuck yourself.
Throughout the entire Obama presidency, the administration has been absolutely paranoid about leaks and has cracked down on whistleblowers like no other administration in history.
Over the past few months, all this "Russian hacking" stuff has been dominating the mainstream media. In story after story, especially from sites like WaPo, reporters are always quoting "anonymous sources in government" or unnamed "intelligence officials" as their sources. These "sources" have obviously leaked numerous details of classified intelligence reports to the media, yet the Obama administration exhibits absolutely no concern whatsoever about these particular leaks.
If Snowden is a criminal for leaking classified information to the media, why isn't there a full scale government investigation to identify the people who are leaking this classified "Russian hacking" stuff to the media? Do we have any laws left which are enforced in a fair & uniform manner? A government which makes it a practice of enforcing laws arbitrarily is an illegitimate government.
but having someone who is against vaccines study it is more likely to be convincing if he is.
Nice theory.
The reality is that most people don't have brains that work like that.
The cognitive load required to abandon years of passionately held conspiracy theory is really high. It is so much easier to decide that the person was compromised by bribes, threats or even stupidity - that sort of rationalization is ideally suited to the logic of conspiracy that fuels the belief in the first place.
Its what happened when physics professor, MacArthur genius-grant fellow and high-profile climate change denier Richard Muller spent a year trying to disprove the existence of global warming and instead ended up proving its existence. As a result nobody changed their minds about climate change, they changed their minds about Dr Muller.
I can tell you why... Because the USA has been meddling in internal affairs of other countries for decades if not centuries. This did include toppling elected governments (Check what happened in Chile in 1973 or in Iran in 1953 for example). So a lot of people will see this 'controversy' as the USA getting a taste of their own medicine.
In the U.S., a pardon is "an expression of the president's forgiveness and ordinarily is granted in recognition of the applicant's acceptance of responsibility for the crime and established good conduct for a significant period of time after conviction or completion of sentence," according to the Office of the Pardon Attorney"
There is NOTHING in the Constitution that says anything resembling this. And the most famous pardon in recent history - Nixon - contained none of these elements. Nixon was never convicted of anything, never admitted to anything, was never sentenced, nor was there any so-called "significant period of time after conviction or completion of sentence."
And the government wonders why there's a fake news problem? They should look in the mirror - they're the source of a lot of it.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
It might help if anyone knew about the petition. This is the first time I've heard of it.
SJWs are the new boogeyman. -Me
Obama has always been a part of the problem, not part of the solution. There's no way he's going to pardon anyone who attempted to undermine the system that keeps him rich.
Then again, Trump doesn't believe in his soon to be Intelligence community, so why would they need to keep their techniques secret anyway?
Not going to happen. Administration does not want to pardon for blanket offenses, only to learn that something really dangerous leaked, and just hasn't shown up.
Obama wants a trial with evidence, and if that shows nothing more than what we have seen, it is a crapshoot at best, but possible.
And Trumpster Fire will probably put him in a Russian gulag, so time ran out.
You idiots arguing the pedantry of possibilities ignore context and reality. And in reality, the only reason Obama has to pardon Snowden is poking Trumpster Fire in the eyeballs. Which would be great, but the political blowback for any democrat running for the next 4 years would be trouble. All of the Russian ties news would be shouted down by "at least he didn't pardon an actual traitor."
Because Obama actually had the audacity to say it: "I can't pardon somebody who hasn't gone before a court and presented themselves, so that's not something that I would comment on at this point."
So, less than a third of one percent of US citizens feel so passionate about this that they clicked their mouse a couple of times. Well that's a mandate if I ever heard one, no doubt.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
You mean spying on the electronic communications of every person on the planet, even allies? There is no justification for that. You cannot turn on the news without a deluge of "Russia hacked the election" propaganda, but just what do you suppose the USG does with all the information captured by the NSA, if not use it to influence foreign nations? This is the same government that has overthrown two democracies, just under Obama.
It is akin to the war on snitches. You can argue that unlike a snitch, a whistleblower maintains allegiance to the larger kinship; but the kinship of power will always regard them as snitches and treat them accordingly. Whenever any authority says they are in favor of whistleblowers, it's as big a lie as "we support affordable housing". The two problems are not without their similarities, as many common people also say they want affordable housing--until they become owners who rely on increasing property values. Likewise, many common folk support the whistleblowers--until they realize they might get in trouble for walking out the office with a stapler.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Fair enough - that's just as likely I suppose. Either way - a new era of US-Russian cooperation will begin. ;-)
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
And your an idiot because you can't read. I never advocated for Obama pardoning Snowden. I only countered the bogus claim that Snowden had to be tried and convicted before he could be pardoned. So, again, yes, Obama can pardon him, but I never said it was likely.
If you reply, do so only to what I explicitly wrote. If I didn't write it, don't assume or infer it.
For a lawyer, you'd think he should know the law better than that.
I strongly suspect he "couldn't" because of some personal convictions on the matter more than because of what he was legally allowed to do.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Obama replied: "I can't pardon somebody who hasn't gone before a court and presented themselves, so that's not something that I would comment on at this point."
This is an outright lie. Not surprising, given the number of lies this administration has made, after promising the most transparent government in history. The Office is doing their best to back this position with word games, rather than clearly (do I dare use the word "transparently") state that a pardon is possible without any trial whatsoever?
Obama is a failure as a president. Under him, the US went from the #1 world power to #3, despite still having the world's largest military. Russia is now firmly #1, because they have shown they can repeatedly ignore the rest of the world, including the US and the UN. China is #2, because they could launch a military blockade of Taiwan tomorrow and what's the US going to do - stop buying Chinese goods? The stock market would crash overnight. Heck, all China has to do to tank the US stock market for the next 4 years is halt all shipments of iPhones. Apple is in decline anyway - nice way to crash the tech bubble in 24 hours. Or they could just put a big fat $1000 per phone export tax on them. Even if they only sold 5% as many, they would make more profit off them.
Even Netanyahu made it clear how little power Obama has, pissing on his administration before congress and the world. Under Obama, the Palestine-Israeli two-state solution has now been buried. Never going to happen. So much for Obama's peace prize.
Between Bush2 and Obama, the US will almost definitely never recover. But that's okay - we have 6 billion surplus people on the planet - a few nuclear wars will solve that. And as a species, we really don't fit in here, do we?
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
This is the same government that has overthrown two democracies, just under Obama.
I can't stand Obama at all, but... ARE YOU ON DRUGS???? Which 2 democracies did Obama overthrew??????
Catalin Braescu
Ofaly.com
And the government wonders why there's a fake news problem?
They don't, of course, but good post.
Secession is the right of all sentient beings.
I think you give Russia and China more credit than they're due. Russia has an economy smaller than Spain's, and if China did what you suggest their economy would collapse, too.
That said I agree Obama has been an unmitigated disaster on foreign policy. When the state department is running missile launchers through Libya to jihadis in Iraq which wind up in the hands of Taliban fighters in Afghanistan and shoot down our own helicopters, and then the Pentagon is bombing the same people in Syria that State is arming...it's an incoherent mess. I agreed strongly with Trump's foreign policy speech back in June. Since the Cold War the US has lost its way. We need some honest conversation about what exactly America's ideological interests and goals around the world are.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
Those of us with memories also know that Hillary as secretary of state took credit for parts of the Arab Spring and was trying to take credit for the Libya uprising until it went south. This was so prominent at her time in the State Department that Putin even accused her of interfering in Russian affairs and organizing protests after a parliament election.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12...
If Russia was involved in the US election, it was likely retaliation for that. People who remember that don't worry that their involvement was to help trump but assume it was little more than to defeat Clinton who has been accused or similar crap.
The size of the economy is secondary. Russia can roll over three Baltic countries in 3 days, and NATO - which includes the US - can't do crap to prevent it (search for the RAND study). And let's face it Russia invaded and annexed part of Poland - a NATO ally - and the US and the rest of NATO took it up the ass. The NATO allies have a much larger total economy than Russia. And yet they were powerless.
As for China, watch what's happening in the South China Sea and how it affects the global economy.
As with Russia and the Middle East, the US is too distant from the South China Sea to be able to mount a long-term, or even a very effective large short-term deterrent force in the area. China wants Taiwan, and also wants to control Japan. The only way for either of these countries to have even medium-term security is nukes on the ground and under water, same as Israel has used its' nuclear weapons to keep everyone around it at bay.
Problem is, Russia won't like Japan having nuclear weapons, and China won't like Taiwan having nuclear weapons. So the options are either a large quick conventional strike, a military sea embargo, or a strategic preemptive nuking of one or two sites as a demonstration of "what if." In both cases, the 3rd option is both the cheapest and the most likely to achieve the desired results.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Voting is nowhere near 100% outcome in any modern election. All of them are farces.
Regardless of the method of Trump's appointment as President, it also does not reflect the will of the majority, as the previous post said. But one thing almost everyone overlooks is that most of the people didn't even vote, for whatever reason. This means that Hillary did not have the majority either. I'm not aware of any situation where the will of the majority was reflected.
Voter turnouts are low. This is also generally the case. The fact is that what happens in Washington or with governments in general, generally has very little to do with the individual's daily life unless that person lets it.
How's life in the hypocrite lane?
BTW, it will be most ironic if Trump pardons Snowden. Then the lunacy will be complete -- the extreme liberals and the extreme conservative in a hug, much to the delight of the emperor...
Nixon's pardon was conditioned on him admitting responsibility. By accepting it, he admitted guilt.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
who haven't read this: https://info.publicintelligence.net/US-HPSCI-SnowdenReport.pdf
the autism-hating, custom EpiPen-hating, Musk-hating Slashdot troll who doesn't know how pardons work!
No, it wasn't. Did you even read it? Nixon was never tried, never convicted, and never admitted guilt. The pardon was both free (no prerequisites such as admitting guilt) and absolute (again, not conditional).
Now, THEREFORE, I, GERALD R. FORD, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9, 1974.
At that point, since there was no trial to determine the actual facts of any criminality on his part, the pardon had to include the "or may have". Not doing so would have required him to admit guilt or be found guilty. By including hypothetical situations, it didn't need a finding of guilt or even an admission.
Courts do the same thing all the time when they dismiss charges against an accused before a trial. No admission of guilt necessary as an a priori condition to their accepting the court's granting them immunity from further prosecution.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
You have to pay attention to the surrounding documentation. Certainly, Gerald Ford made numerous statements (backed by his legal team) that accepting a pardon necessarily involved admitting guilt.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
If Snowden is dumb enough to come back with all the treats of severe punishment that have been recorded on TV in the past. Then he's an idiot to be trusting anyone here.
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." --George Bernard Shaw
Casteism
And this is why no one gives a fuck about internet petitions, people that create them are ignorant morons.
He has to be tried AND CONVICTED before he can be pardoned.
Says the ignorant moron that can't understand how presidential pardons work. Might want to try doing a little research before posting.