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Labor Department Sues Oracle For Paying White Men More (usatoday.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from USA Today: Oracle is being sued by the Labor Department for paying white men more than their counterparts and for favoring Asian workers when recruiting and hiring for technical roles. The administrative lawsuit is the latest from the Labor Department to take aim at the human resources practices of major technology companies. The Labor Department warned the lawsuit could cost Oracle hundreds of millions in federal contracts. Oracle makes software and hardware used by the federal government. "The complaint is politically motivated, based on false allegations, and wholly without merit," Oracle spokesman Deborah Hellinger said in a statement. "Oracle values diversity and inclusion, and is a responsible equal opportunity and affirmative action employer. Our hiring and pay decisions are non-discriminatory and made based on legitimate business factors including experience and merit." The lawsuit is the result of an Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs review of Oracle's equal employment opportunity practices, the Labor Department said. According to the lawsuit, Oracle America paid white male workers more, leading to pay discrimination against women, African American and Asian employees. The Labor Department also accused Oracle of favoring Asians for product development and other technical roles, resulting in discrimination against non-Asian applicants. Oracle refused to comply with the Labor Department's investigation, which began in 2014, such as refusing to provide compensation data for all employees, complete hiring data for certain business lines and employee complaints of discrimination, according to the federal agency.
Here we go...
You are welcome on my lawn.
Make up your mind. Which is it? They are paying more to white males or discriminating against white males by preferring Asian workers?
**Life is too short to be serious**
It is purely coincidence that this lawsuit is filed two days before the end of the Obama administration.
Against Asians, but at the same time, on different aspect, against everyone else in favor of Asians.
That's quite discriminatory indeed, albeit, not quite logical.
Oracle is a meritocracy. That fact that white men earn more is simply because they do more.
This is a load of claptrap. You don't hire to fill quotas unless you're government. You hire the best candidate to do a job.
You pay what the market is willing to bear and what that employee negotiates.
If an employee doesn't ask for raises outside of normal performance increases, thats on the employee.
also, First Post
Obviously this isn't Trump's labor department.
One day they will sue companies for hiring only those with engineering backgrounds/majors for engineering jobs. Why can't an English major do the same job?
What does the workforce at Dept of Labor look like?
Can't seem to find a clue.
I'm half white, and half Japanese. Does that mean I'll get the job AND get paid more? If so, sign me up! I even live in the East Bay, so I'm local!
the whole thing is a lie. The reality is asian families in the USA have a far higher income than many white men.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... Also female engineers employed by IT companies now get 117% of the income of your average male employee. Why you may ask, well because female's make different life choices to males leading to fewer female engineers even though 60% of university graduates in the USA are female. So what companies do to make themselves look better is pay the few female graduate engineers they can hire a wage that is higher than a male graduate. Where is all starts to fall apart is because of the life choices problem for female employees. Males generally work long hours and will spend more time at work due to the fact they generally don't get pregnant nor have a preference of putting family before work. Climbing the greasy pole takes time, the more time you spend climbing it the higher up you go. If you stop climbing the greasy pole to have kids or go home early to see the kids then your fellow workers are not exactly going to stop climbing the pole just because you have left the building. So when these women come back to work they find themselves on a lower income than their fellow workers who started climbing the greasy pole the same time they did.
Don't worry Oracle. You only have to weather this storm until Monday.
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
That's bullshit. It ought to value their software's reliability and performance instead. Nothing else.
If that means, hiring more (or less) Asians/Blacks/Whites/Purples — so be it.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
You don't comply with an investigation. Refused to cooperate, maybe?
20 years from now.
I'm sorry, but changing (or choosing to enforce) the current rules does not magically level the playing field. If it did, minorities would long ago have stopped complaining that the system is rigged against them. Then again, the situation I've just described does leave itself open to manipulation by the "good ol' boy's club".
I'd be more interested in knowing if job tenure was considered in analyzing the pay differential that the DOL alleges they've discovered.
'Merica why u so racist!
If they filed before the election instead of the day before inauguration of a President from the opposing party. Once again, if Trump drops the suit, he is racist. If Trump wins the suit, it's Trump persecuting the tech sector while Obama protected minority rights. Who are these jokers kidding?
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
Can we get some attention on Shesha Lounge, a local hookah bar here in Wichita which forces its staff to clock out before they begin closing/cleaning the store and then requires them to stay for a mandatory and unpaid staff meeting that sometimes goes on for hours? In general, I've seen that illegal labor practices abound in the service industry, it's almost expected.
The response is correct: "The complaint is politically motivated, based on false allegations, and wholly without merit."
Merit is the biggest modifier in people's pay, and has been for decades. Equal opportunity has been the law several decades now. More women graduate college than men, and have been superior in terms of years of education for quite some time now. The Gender pay gap has been debunked so often that I honestly question the sanity of people who continue to argue that it exists. US Department of Labor data shows that women make more than men with the same qualifications and work habits, not less.
Simple questions answer the issue easily. If women work for less than men, why does any company run by a man hire a man? I'm really tired of this leftist religion being crammed down everyone's throats. Yes, it has become a religion.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
Posting anonymously because I'm probably not supposed to discuss this.
Oracle's hiring practices are pretty stupid - they recruit most of their new hires primarily from a few "prestigious" institutions, and require VERY high GPAs in their fresh hires from college. This tends to select for fairly bookish and academically excellent recruits... which results in a lot of asians. I can't speak to their pay (and whether or not they're paid more than white people in the same position) but if I had to guess, I'd say that there likely isn't intentional discrimination, but rather pay discrepancy coming as a function of recruitment and salary increases.
If you job swap, you tend to get a fairly significant raise while doing so, because otherwise why bother swapping? If you're coming from an established company, that means Oracle needs to pay you whatever you got at the old company, plus N, in order to convince you to move.
If you're a fresh hire, you get paid the minimum that they can get away with paying. Because internal bumps in pay aren't as large as pay raises from swapping companies (a big part of why corporate loyalty's gone out the window in the last few decades), the predominately asian force of new recruits ends up not getting paid as much over time as the more ethnically diverse people that job swap to join Oracle.
So I wouldn't be surprised if, taken broadly, they paid their asian workers less. I wouldn't put it down to discrimination, though, but rather an unintentional consequence of silly hiring policies combined with how pay increases are handed out.
Hire loads of Indian H1-Bs (some Chinese as well, but much less) for cheap tech labor! Hire almost no white people except to run the company (management, sales). Looks like the racial structure of a construction or landscaping company, no? (Replace Indians with Mexicans.)
Article translation to plain English:
Oracle prefers to hire H1B Indians so they can pay them less, rather than hiring Americans..
Now that the Whites-Only House has been elected, this lawsuit will see a quick and easy dismissal.
And no, the guy who apparently practiced on his own brain during medical school doesn't count.
>"Oracle America paid white male workers more, leading to pay discrimination against women, African American and Asian employees."
Please, if you are going to be politically correct, do it equally for everyone:
"Oracle America paid European American male workers more, leading to pay discrimination against women, African American and Asian American employees."
1. Women have to register for Selective Service.
2. There is a 50/50 male/female teacher ratio in elementary schools.
3. Future potential is not considered in conjunction with current ability in hiring and pay.
Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
Couldn't have happened to a more deserving company. Oracle has the most onerous licensing costs, then the conduct a "compliance review" to try to shake down their customers for even more. Having gone through that, I'm going to really enjoy watching them have to turn around and bend over.
You ever read stuff like this and just want to roll your eyes? People keep reporting stuff like this and all it's doing is desensitizing people and more often than not, twisting data to support what someone wants to find. If someone is going to report something like this, please have a link to actual evidence so us intelligent people can debunk and roll our eyes and not look like a jack ass. Oracle is a constant target for everything now and this is just a tactical payback or perhaps a red herring of sorts.
Can I, as a white male, sue my company or the Labor Department for paying a non-white female more than the rest of the team members even though she is far less capable at the job than the rest ?
Seriously, without an incredible amount of help from those around her, she can accomplish nothing on her own. Of course mgmt is terrified to touch her due to what it is guaranteed to turn into. ( It's because I'm $color / $gender of course )
This whole income inequality of women vs men is all the rage in the news, unless the roles are reversed. Then no one speaks of it at all.
Yeah, a lot of people don't realize that Lincoln was a Republican and that the stereotype was actually the other way around until people like Nixon came into office and started the drug war bullshit, aka sell drugs to Blacks so they have two choices: get busted or be controlled. There's a reason why a lot of US grandparents are racist as hell but Democrats. You know, the same age as Hillary. Wink wink. Don't be fooled. Learn your history. Everyone is racist, but some states care more about being honest about it than others.
There paying white men more but only hiring asians seems like a really odd set of racialiy motivated bias
That's about 90% of the folks I see in tech roles these days, so it'd be interesting if this changed anything. And it's not that they're paying whites more, they're paying everybody else _less_. It's subtle, but believe me, there's a difference.
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I can't believe I'm actually going to defend Oracle, but...
They're right. This is bullshit. If Whites and Asians are the best people for the job, and worth paying more for, then that's who they should be hiring and paying the big bucks to.
Why did you eat honey that was made by B's? B is inferior, next time get honey from a hive of A's.
When a similar case was brought against google a while ago, a bunch of people here defended the company and their refusal to hand over compensation data - so let's hear it, will you defend the prime evil of tech as well ? Will you felate Ellison like you slobbered on Schmidt ? Or is refusing to cooperate into an investigation of your own compliance with the law only heroic when google does it ?
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
A big case right before the administration changes?
Why doesn't the labor dept sue Hollywood producers? It is well known and documented that Hollywood pays men stars considerably more than women stars. We know why, don't we.
I mean litterally, go away Obama!
The ability to legally pay H1Bs from Asia less is why americans get fired and replaced with them. I have wondered for a while why no one sued companies for racially discriminating against H1Bs. If they pay Blacks, women, etc... less then they should be sued for this. This is actually good for white guys. If wages go up across the board all compensation goes up.
Saying this as a white guy. Stop repressing minorities and H1Bs pay them what you pay me!
Just wanted to clarify that for the non-IT people that visit Slashdot and are not aware of the gross racism going on in corporate America to replace IT employees of all backgrounds and religions with people that fit a single racial profile. Worst example I have seen to date was at HSBC where they bring in 1,500-3,000 Indians a year to do all of their database development. They skirt around H1-B limitations by hiring Indians in India then import them under regular travel programs for the maximum 90 days then ship'em back and bring in another batch.
I've had the unconscious bias training and all the other stuff. Apparently, increasing diversity makes everything better, you cannot question this, it is the approved narrative, so it must be true. Therefore, all of these businesses such as facebook, google, oracle; you know the ones that are primarily composed of white and asian men, well these companies will never succeed because they lack the required diversity. These companies deserve our pity.
True story: A while back I was hired at $95K to come in and rescue a tiny tech startup that had lost its star software developer. Not only did I do software development, I also helped with management activities, one of which was to recruit a second software developer. I found a recent Masters Degree graduate from the local university (Taiwanese national) who was happy to take the job at $70K. Fast forward one year later, the company was still struggling, and the owner laid me off and kept the Taiwanese developer. Honestly I don't think its a racist thing; its just that foreigners and recent arrivees are often much more willing to work harder for less money than locals. Companies would naturally hire lower cost workers if they can do the job.
in this case I am. These sorts of "show us your labor stats" demands are nothing more than shakedowns from the PC crowd. We already have plenty of reverse discrimination laws in place - none of which give any weight to merit when it comes to job placement decisions. These laws are purely based on quotas but the backers of these laws will never use the term "quota".
In many cases, a woman or a minority IS the best candidate for the job. But that suitability should be based SOLELY on merit.
If a woman shows up for a job interview and she is 7 months pregnant is it discrimination to not hire her, knowing that in a month she will be on maternity leave for 3 or 4 months? I don't think so.
If a non-white applies for a job and english is not their first language and communication is a key skill (as it is in many jobs) is it discrimination to not hire that person? Again, I don't think so.
So when labor laws require quotas from this group or that group we are, by definition, causing the following:
1) The exclusion of qualified while males, who might have been hired for the position if not for the quotas.
2) Lowering standards to accommodate otherwise under qualified candidates.
3) Resentment among current staff, due to items 1 & 2.
I actually applaud Oracle for standing up to this sort of extortion. Personally I wish more companies would.
It seems like nobody likes them but they did it to themselves.
The young college grads want to work at Facebook or any number of newer, cooler companies that are part of the new IT economy. Oracle? Cisco? IBM? Yesterday's news. For old people.
Their customers by and large despise them for their heavy handed tactics for licensing/support and general douchebaggery. Most of the employees hate them too, especially the ones who became reluctant oracle minions via one of their hundreds and hundreds of acquisitions.
The programmer/software engineer community hates them for what they did to Java, the ditching of all assistance to the FOSS community and how they are slowly killing Solaris.
The IT industry has to kowtow to them as they still have a ton of cash. Larry Ellison is an 8,000 lb. gorilla who was just named as one of the "Oxfam Eight" group of people who combined have more money than the poorest half of the world population. And then there is Safra Catz who is going to join the trump transition team, while still holding her executive position.
For those of you angered and distracted by the racial and gender aspects of this particular case, don't forget that this was also a company that gladly conspired with Apple and others in 'do not hire' agreements which kept salaries low for EVERYONE while stopping or slowing talent from moving freely between employers.
Remember, next time it could be you, because it WAS you last time!
See my subject above: He's got mental retard issues (assburgers) & yes, a PROVEN liar, proven here https://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=10103335&cid=53697035/
* Don't let the lying little shit get you man - he's known online trolling trash & yes, a liar!
APK
P.S.=> He's pitiful & disgusting, no questions asked... apk