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Labor Department Sues Oracle For Paying White Men More (usatoday.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from USA Today: Oracle is being sued by the Labor Department for paying white men more than their counterparts and for favoring Asian workers when recruiting and hiring for technical roles. The administrative lawsuit is the latest from the Labor Department to take aim at the human resources practices of major technology companies. The Labor Department warned the lawsuit could cost Oracle hundreds of millions in federal contracts. Oracle makes software and hardware used by the federal government. "The complaint is politically motivated, based on false allegations, and wholly without merit," Oracle spokesman Deborah Hellinger said in a statement. "Oracle values diversity and inclusion, and is a responsible equal opportunity and affirmative action employer. Our hiring and pay decisions are non-discriminatory and made based on legitimate business factors including experience and merit." The lawsuit is the result of an Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs review of Oracle's equal employment opportunity practices, the Labor Department said. According to the lawsuit, Oracle America paid white male workers more, leading to pay discrimination against women, African American and Asian employees. The Labor Department also accused Oracle of favoring Asians for product development and other technical roles, resulting in discrimination against non-Asian applicants. Oracle refused to comply with the Labor Department's investigation, which began in 2014, such as refusing to provide compensation data for all employees, complete hiring data for certain business lines and employee complaints of discrimination, according to the federal agency.
Against Asians, but at the same time, on different aspect, against everyone else in favor of Asians.
That's quite discriminatory indeed, albeit, not quite logical.
This is a load of claptrap. You don't hire to fill quotas unless you're government. You hire the best candidate to do a job.
You pay what the market is willing to bear and what that employee negotiates.
If an employee doesn't ask for raises outside of normal performance increases, thats on the employee.
also, First Post
There's no contradiction in the two statements. The few white males they do hire are being given higher pay, but the majority of the jobs are going to lower-paid Asian workers.
I'm half white, and half Japanese. Does that mean I'll get the job AND get paid more? If so, sign me up! I even live in the East Bay, so I'm local!
Those are not mutually exclusive options...
My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
Don't worry Oracle. You only have to weather this storm until Monday.
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
That's bullshit. It ought to value their software's reliability and performance instead. Nothing else.
If that means, hiring more (or less) Asians/Blacks/Whites/Purples — so be it.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
You don't comply with an investigation. Refused to cooperate, maybe?
I'm sorry, but changing (or choosing to enforce) the current rules does not magically level the playing field. If it did, minorities would long ago have stopped complaining that the system is rigged against them. Then again, the situation I've just described does leave itself open to manipulation by the "good ol' boy's club".
I'd be more interested in knowing if job tenure was considered in analyzing the pay differential that the DOL alleges they've discovered.
I personally would never hire one of them. All they do at work is troll on slashdot!
If they filed before the election instead of the day before inauguration of a President from the opposing party. Once again, if Trump drops the suit, he is racist. If Trump wins the suit, it's Trump persecuting the tech sector while Obama protected minority rights. Who are these jokers kidding?
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
What part of "Both" is too tough?
Considering the many MONTHS of discovery...no
If you stop climbing the greasy pole to [...] go home early to see the kids
Single dad here: *yup*.
Ultimately cost me a good job because blokes are not expected to care for their kids. Had I been a woman needing a flexible schedule no one would have dared to make a fuss.
whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
No, white guys do that too. Beaners are the janitors.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Here we go...
#OnlyBlackLivesMatter!
The Democrat creed: We must promote intersectional bullshit in order to foment racial and ethnic tensions, divide the population into groups all trying to out-victim the other, then use that to stay in power in collusion with banksters. To make sure that works, we must excoriate any member of a victim class who dares to leave the thought plantation.
Can we get some attention on Shesha Lounge, a local hookah bar here in Wichita which forces its staff to clock out before they begin closing/cleaning the store and then requires them to stay for a mandatory and unpaid staff meeting that sometimes goes on for hours? In general, I've seen that illegal labor practices abound in the service industry, it's almost expected.
The response is correct: "The complaint is politically motivated, based on false allegations, and wholly without merit."
Merit is the biggest modifier in people's pay, and has been for decades. Equal opportunity has been the law several decades now. More women graduate college than men, and have been superior in terms of years of education for quite some time now. The Gender pay gap has been debunked so often that I honestly question the sanity of people who continue to argue that it exists. US Department of Labor data shows that women make more than men with the same qualifications and work habits, not less.
Simple questions answer the issue easily. If women work for less than men, why does any company run by a man hire a man? I'm really tired of this leftist religion being crammed down everyone's throats. Yes, it has become a religion.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
fyi you don't have to have an engineering background to be hire for an engineering job...
Asians are either considered white or not, depending on the narrative they are pushing. Same as beaners.
Lumping all Asians together is silly. The people of Iran and northern India have more in common genetically, linguistically and culturally with Europe than they do with East Asia. Many Indian-Americans will tick "South Asian" if that is an option, but will select "White" if that is the only alternative to "Asian", because that is where they feel they belong
The Republican creed: We must promote intersectional bullshit in order to foment racial and ethnic tensions, divide the population into groups all trying to out-victim the other, then use that to stay in power in collusion with banksters. To make sure that works, we must excoriate any member of a victim class who dares not to vote against their own interests.
FTFY - AKA, The southern strategy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy
I would be very surprised if Oracle haven't already gotten rid of any expensive dead weight and the ones that have remained are there for good reason.
love is just extroverted narcissism
Beaners are the janitors.
So are white guys who go to lunch at Taco Bell and come back to the office.
The **Democrat** creed...
Create the KKK
"Founded in 1866, the Ku Klux Klan (KKK) extended into almost every southern state by 1870 and became a vehicle for white southern resistance to the Republican Party’s Reconstruction-era policies aimed at establishing political and economic equality for blacks. Its members waged an underground campaign of intimidation and violence directed at white and black Republican leaders. Though Congress passed legislation designed to curb Klan terrorism, the organization saw its primary goal–the reestablishment of white supremacy–fulfilled through **Democratic** victories in state legislatures across the South in the 1870s"
Fixed THAT for ya...
http://www.history.com/topics/ku-klux-klan
The Republicrat Creed, divide and conquer, who gives a shit about liberty.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
In the United States, Asian as a racial or ethnic identifier usually means what I grew up calling East Asian. Which covers, among other countries, China and Japan.
Oracle is a meritocracy.
You misspelled "mediocracy".
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
read the article... idiot!
I did . It doesnt say anything clear. Also using a swear word does not make your point any more valid
**Life is too short to be serious**
Slashdot should fully support this, but as usual accusations of racism triggered most of the posters and mods. This angle is probably the best way you can fight back against H1B abuse, but the programmed Pavlovian response is hard to overcome.
Or perhaps most of us would rather problems with H1B abuse be solved directly rather than through underhanded identity politics. That way madness lies.
That's about 90% of the folks I see in tech roles these days, so it'd be interesting if this changed anything. And it's not that they're paying whites more, they're paying everybody else _less_. It's subtle, but believe me, there's a difference.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Make up your mind. Which is it? They are paying more to white males or discriminating against white males by preferring Asian workers?
Oracle has not been complying with requests for information, so the Labor Department is suing them so they can get this information during discovery. They are probably suing them for multiple offenses so they can get a more broad set of information during this process. At least that is my guess based on the information in the article.
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
Love this. Out of curiosity what makes a black person not count as a black person? Just by disagreeing with you or is it more nuanced than that?
Used to hear the same kind of thing about Clarence Thomas. Apparently it is problematic for stereotypes if there are non-white republicans.
Standard disclaimer: I affiliate with neither party and despise the hypocrisy from both.
Both!
Malaysia isn't in East Asia.
I think most Malaysians would be surprised to hear that. The boundary between "South Asia" and "East Asia" is generally considered to be the Naf River, which is Bengali on the west bank and Burmese on the east bank. Malaysia is much further to the east, and some parts of Malaysia are further east than Hong Kong.
I would bet my last dollar that quite of few of those 'Asians' (so why is it Asians versus 'white people' rather than Europeans). are paid quite a lot more than they seem to be. So where is that extra money coming from, why from those foreign agencies who hire and train them, just before they apply for the job working on US computer infrastructure. I'll bet there are so many secret features buried so deep they will never be able to find them all, US corporate greed serving the US as always, as cheaply as possible to maximise profits and fuck the consequences.
Nobody trusts the US any more, not one tiny little bit and as such they all will be looking to place sleeper agents as deeply as possible in US digital infrastructure, no just agents, the software and hardware they insert into US digital infrastructure that remains long after the agent has left and this will have been going on for some time. Thanks US corporate greed, revenge for the NSAs shenanigans in other countries would not be possible without you.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
Why did you eat honey that was made by B's? B is inferior, next time get honey from a hive of A's.
Will do you help an incompetent person and enable those said person to build a fake CV.... what are you trying to achieve, maybe her being the boss of your department in the near future because of management quotas on sex and race?
Trump's popularity with white males was in no small part because he appealed to their sense of victimhood. Jobs stolen by immigrants, minorities given priority at their expense, constantly accused of being racist and sexist. It's standard alt-right doctrine, and the narrative running through everything of Breitbart which we know is Trump's favourite source of news (being a prolific tweeter has some benefits).
That's the right's creed now. White men are oppressed, so should vote for a white male bigot like Trump who will look out for them. All progressive policies, all attempts to eliminate racism and sexism are just schemes to oppress white people and silence free speech, and the vast SJW army must be defeated by electing someone like Trump who doesn't give a shit about imitating disabled reporters or grabbing women by the genitals. The establishment itself is reverse-racist! Quick, appoint some white supremacists to his staff!
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
A big part of the problem is that race and wealth correlate strongly in the USA and the rhetoric from the Democrats has been about race and not poverty, even though the latter is the real problem. This leaves people who are both poor and white feeling that the party only cares about poverty when it happens to black people and, worse, that it feels middle class black people deserve more help than poor white ones. This is made even worse by the fact that there's a black President: clearly being black isn't a complete barrier to success, but being born poor often is.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
When a similar case was brought against google a while ago, a bunch of people here defended the company and their refusal to hand over compensation data - so let's hear it, will you defend the prime evil of tech as well ? Will you felate Ellison like you slobbered on Schmidt ? Or is refusing to cooperate into an investigation of your own compliance with the law only heroic when google does it ?
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
You know that Trump has four, that's right FOUR senior cabinet members who are ex-Goldman Sachs ? Tell me again how republicans don't suck bankster cock.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
A big case right before the administration changes?
After all, the reason that most of the old Confederacy now votes for Republicans is because the people there are broadly tolerant, and accepting of diversity, having fully rejected their history of slaveholding and Jim Crow.
Really? Did you read the dates of that strategy. Do you hold the democrats to how they stood in the 60's and 70s?
And that article is a great example of bias so thanks for linking it so I can point to it on the next wikipedia article.
"Reagan's campaigns used racially coded rhetoric, making attacks on the "welfare state" and leveraging resentment towards affirmative action."
Trying to find secret meanings in words just to support your theory is the epitome of dishonesty. Teh whole article is layered with that.
Just wanted to clarify that for the non-IT people that visit Slashdot and are not aware of the gross racism going on in corporate America to replace IT employees of all backgrounds and religions with people that fit a single racial profile. Worst example I have seen to date was at HSBC where they bring in 1,500-3,000 Indians a year to do all of their database development. They skirt around H1-B limitations by hiring Indians in India then import them under regular travel programs for the maximum 90 days then ship'em back and bring in another batch.
Trying to find secret meanings in words just to support your theory is the epitome of dishonesty.
The statement you quoted is entirely factual. Republicans have used racial dog whistles ("Willie Horton!"), attacked the welfare state (but not corporate welfare) and leveraged resentment against affirmative action ("political correctness") for decades. The Trump administration will be no different.
Perhaps anything more complex than that is too complex for a leftist mind.
I've had the unconscious bias training and all the other stuff. Apparently, increasing diversity makes everything better, you cannot question this, it is the approved narrative, so it must be true. Therefore, all of these businesses such as facebook, google, oracle; you know the ones that are primarily composed of white and asian men, well these companies will never succeed because they lack the required diversity. These companies deserve our pity.
"A big part of the problem is that race and wealth correlate strongly in the USA"
Wealth and sociopathy go hand in hand more convincingly though. Rich black people tend to be just as nasty as rich white ones and both groups tend to be equal opportunity in their sociopathy.
True story: A while back I was hired at $95K to come in and rescue a tiny tech startup that had lost its star software developer. Not only did I do software development, I also helped with management activities, one of which was to recruit a second software developer. I found a recent Masters Degree graduate from the local university (Taiwanese national) who was happy to take the job at $70K. Fast forward one year later, the company was still struggling, and the owner laid me off and kept the Taiwanese developer. Honestly I don't think its a racist thing; its just that foreigners and recent arrivees are often much more willing to work harder for less money than locals. Companies would naturally hire lower cost workers if they can do the job.
You must have the luxury of not being an Oracle customer.
in this case I am. These sorts of "show us your labor stats" demands are nothing more than shakedowns from the PC crowd. We already have plenty of reverse discrimination laws in place - none of which give any weight to merit when it comes to job placement decisions. These laws are purely based on quotas but the backers of these laws will never use the term "quota".
In many cases, a woman or a minority IS the best candidate for the job. But that suitability should be based SOLELY on merit.
If a woman shows up for a job interview and she is 7 months pregnant is it discrimination to not hire her, knowing that in a month she will be on maternity leave for 3 or 4 months? I don't think so.
If a non-white applies for a job and english is not their first language and communication is a key skill (as it is in many jobs) is it discrimination to not hire that person? Again, I don't think so.
So when labor laws require quotas from this group or that group we are, by definition, causing the following:
1) The exclusion of qualified while males, who might have been hired for the position if not for the quotas.
2) Lowering standards to accommodate otherwise under qualified candidates.
3) Resentment among current staff, due to items 1 & 2.
I actually applaud Oracle for standing up to this sort of extortion. Personally I wish more companies would.
The statement you quoted is entirely factual. Republicans have used racial dog whistles ("Willie Horton!")
And so have Democrats. Heck, the last KKK member that was in the senate was a democrat and the only reason he is out is because he died (Robert Byrd). Some people suck.
The statement about the welfare state is not a racial coded one which is what the quote said.
If you have no concerns assuming people are talking in code, then I am sure you will "successfully" find whatever you want when judging people.
Or could it be that many slashdotters don't feel two wrongs make a right?
And so have Democrats.
Got any examples?
I am pretty sure that the number of people alive today who have owned slaves is vanishingly small.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
The Trump administration will be no different.
That is kind of funny, since as recently as 6 years ago Trump was a member of the DNC.
http://www.washingtontimes.com...
But sure, let's hold up Trump as the absolute peak of racism. The man who didn't speak out against any race (black, white and asian are races, muslim and hispanic are not).
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Did you read the next sentence?
Jobs stolen by immigrants,
You forgot the illegal in that statement. No one has problems with immigrants, it is the ones who illegally overstay visas or illegally cross borders many people have problems with. After all, in farming country, unless you are an illegal, you are unemployable to pick fruits and veggies.
minorities given priority at their expense,
That is because equal opportunity laws are inherently racist. When a poor black person gets priority over a poor white person, it is racism, as you only care about the color of the black person's skin.
constantly accused of being racist and sexist.
You got me there, I am tired of this overused and false assesment of everyone who supports the republicans. It is a lie, or a missunderstanding of the meaning of these words. After all, Trump promoted exactly 0 racist policies, but was constantly called racist.
It's standard alt-right doctrine, and the narrative running through everything of Breitbart which we know is Trump's favourite source of news (being a prolific tweeter has some benefits).
It is a standard of the downtrodden to speak out against injustice, and the people who are putting the boots on other's necks. This is why the DNC has been failing recently, most of their policies are racist and are designed to push some down to give priority to others.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Did you read the next sentence?
Your entire comment didn't make sense.
When did idiot become a swear word? Though I suppose you could be speaking about article...
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
But sure, let's hold up Trump as the absolute peak of racism.
I wrote Trump administration, not Trump himself. His cabinet picks and followers are the peak of racism. As for Trump himself, his outreach to black people from safe white neighborhoods was too funny.
I missed the distinction in your statement, my apologies. I can't say I know anything about his cabinet, only the stances the (soon to be) president himself took.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
I can't say I know anything about his cabinet, only the stances the (soon to be) president himself took.
As one political commentator wrote, the swamp alligators (cabinet picks) are changing team shirts from Obama to Trump and that's about it.
Quoting myself "Heck, the last KKK member that was in the senate was a democrat and the only reason he is out is because he died (Robert Byrd)."
Quoting myself "Heck, the last KKK member that was in the senate was a democrat and the only reason he is out is because he died (Robert Byrd)."
Democratic Senator Robert Byrd renounced being a Klansman and became a respected member of the civil rights movement. Maybe you're thinking of former Democratic and Republican Senator Storm Thurmond who had a child with a black maid and never renounced segregation?
Actually, in the UK most of the hate is directed to perfectly legal immigrants from other EU countries. The illegal aspect in the US is just a weak justification, if they were legal people would still blame them.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
One, we were talking about the US. You specifically talk about Trump.
Two, we will never know if people would still blame legal immigrants, but as that isn't happening currently in the US with the 2 million legal immigrants we take in every year, I think you are full of it.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
What about H1B then? Legal immigrants, but widely blamed and reviled.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
And you contend that organizations never change in 150 years? Or 100 years (Democrats pushed civil rights legislation through shortly before 1966).
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
That conflicts with my experience. The anger I've seen directed at immigrants has been primarily against legal ones (although that may well vary by region). There's similar antagonism over sending jobs abroad, and that's perfectly legal.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Trump's popularity with white males was in no small part because he appealed to their sense of victimhood. Jobs stolen by immigrants, minorities given priority at their expense, constantly accused of being racist and sexist. It's standard alt-right doctrine, and the narrative running through everything of Breitbart which we know is Trump's favourite source of news (being a prolific tweeter has some benefits).
Take your head out of your ass. Look around. Trump won because of minorities including women, blacks, hispanics and so on. People that realized Hillary is just a despot puppet of Soros. She lost Bigly in this election. As for victimhood, did you check out the BS with the woman march for Saturday? It was started by white women, quickly degraded as black women and others claimed they were even more victims and of course no other victim can understand this. What a joke. Even the Washington Post made a joke by featuring the march with pink, and a male symbol. Alt-right? What a joke as well. Fascism is leftist, not right. Obviously you have no idea about the difference between a fascist, socialist and a communist. They hate each other by the way.
That's the right's creed now. White men are oppressed, so should vote for a white male bigot like Trump who will look out for them. All progressive policies, all attempts to eliminate racism and sexism are just schemes to oppress white people and silence free speech, and the vast SJW army must be defeated by electing someone like Trump who doesn't give a shit about imitating disabled reporters or grabbing women by the genitals. The establishment itself is reverse-racist! Quick, appoint some white supremacists to his staff!
Ok, first of all you realize he never actually grabbed a woman's crotch, nor has he appointed any white supremacists, right? The Democrats had an actual KKK Grand Dragon named Senator Byrd. Served for years. That was OK because he was a Democrat, somehow. This was recently, Hillary was giving him tongue kiss. Democrats keep minorities on their government plantation and that's the problem. Eventually they run out of other people's money. That's where we are today, about 21T in debt thanks to Obama and the Democrats.
No. I was thinking of Robert Byrd who did his best to continue segregation until political reasons forced his to pretend to change. And pretend was all it was. You just had to listen to the man.
Quick google search would show you that
http://www.azquotes.com/author...
Democrat Senator Reid is the same way (but he is bat-shit crazy so I almost want to give him a pass.)
http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITI... He made these comments in 2008, long after Thurmond dies (so much more recent.)
I don't think people have a problem with the H1B people themselves, but with the abuses of the system. If the system was working as it was meant, they wouldn't be taking any jobs away as they would be doing jobs that literally no one else could do, so it wouldn't be an issue. Unfortunately, instead, the system is being abused to replace people in jobs, which is actually illegal, but never prosecuted.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
And pretend was all it was.
If you're on the public stage, it's all pretend. I've always find it interesting that people expect a politician to be the same in public as they are at home. I'm a different person on Slashdot than I am at the office than I am at home. To quote Shakespeare: "The entire world is a stage."
Democrat Senator Reid is the same way (but he is bat-shit crazy so I almost want to give him a pass.)
Reid had a valid point about Obama being biracial. If Obama's skin tone was jet black, it's very unlikely that he would have gotten elected POTUS. It's called colorism.
http://racerelations.about.com/od/understandingrac1/a/What-Is-Colorism.htm
Slave-owners were partial to light-skinned slaves because they were often family members. Slave-owners frequently forced slave women into sexual intercourse, and light-skinned offspring were the telltale signs of these sexual assaults. While slave-owners did not officially recognize their mixed-race children as blood, they gave them privileges that dark-skinned slaves did not enjoy. Accordingly, light skin came to be viewed as an asset among the slave community.