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Mac Sales Declined Nearly 10 Percent Last Year (9to5mac.com)

It's not surprising that Mac sales dropped for Apple in 2016 as they experienced their first year over year sales decline since 2001. What is interesting, however, is that as Mac sales dropped roughly 10% and personal computers overall dropped 5.7% for the year, the top four leaders in the market all saw growth as Apple was pushed to number five. From a report: Although Mac sales were up in Q4 2016 compared to Q4 2015, an analyst note today from Bloomberg's Anand Srinivasan and Wei Mok has revealed Apple has dropped to the fifth largest PC vendor, with ASUS overtaking fourth place. The top four vendors are now Lenovo, HP, Dell, and ASUS. The report adds, "Those four companies represent 65.2% of the overall market and each grew year -- over-year, while Apple ceded ground, declining 30 bps to 7.1%. The other 27.7% of the market is comprised of more than 200 vendors. In a market expected to consolidate, Samsung and Fujitsu are reported to be in discussions to sell their PC businesses to Lenovo."

328 comments

  1. Well, no shit! by painandgreed · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Most everybody that wants a Mac already has one. If they want a new one, well, there isn't one. No new Mac Pro in three years. Same for Mac minis and the last "upgrade" was actually a downgrade. No new iMac in two. Tim Cook said last year he was expecting for people to upgrade their Macs every three years, but the sad truth is that three years is up for many people and the Mac on sale is the one they already have or so close to it that there's no reason to upgrade unless it's dead. Add in that the newer models may be less upgradable than the ones they already have and that's less incentive to get a newer Mac. I'm still on my 2008 Mac Pro because it still works and I'm certainly not going to shell out top dollar for a three year old machine. i thought I might even go down to an iMac, but they're almost as old.

    1. Re:Well, no shit! by Moof123 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      +1 Stagnant hardware is a death sentence in the PC industry. Frankly I am shocked they haven't dropped more. Too much of their desktop hardware is not only stagnant, but has mobile grade stuff on the inside, making the extra Apple tax that much harder to stomach.

    2. Re:Well, no shit! by sasparillascott · · Score: 4, Interesting

      So well said. At this point other than 2 flavors of performance reduced (by form) Macbook Airs (Macbook and Macbook Pro) and the iMac (a laptop in a monitor), it appears their entire desktop line is dead and just waiting to be retired. Driving a Mac Pro as well (2012), but am coming around to the conclusion that I will probably be forced to replace it with a PC cause Apple has been choosing to abandon the PC market. JMHO....

    3. Re:Well, no shit! by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      Should I even mention my TB of photos stuck in Aperture? I'm a Mac fanatic since 1985, but wondering where I might have to go next.

    4. Re:Well, no shit! by irving47 · · Score: 2

      Yup.
      1. Abandon product line.
      2. ?
      3. No profit for you, idiots.

      --
      I had a sucky sig.
    5. Re:Well, no shit! by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      So well said. At this point other than 2 flavors of performance reduced (by form) Macbook Airs (Macbook and Macbook Pro) and the iMac (a laptop in a monitor), it appears their entire desktop line is dead and just waiting to be retired.

      They keep quiet about their upgrades and from other news and rumor sites, I can infere that they not only scavenged people from the desktop line for the Mac Books but that also Intel hit some blip in production so the chips they were planning on using are coming out much later than expected. Still, even if they did forego use of whatever chips that other desktop companies are using, I would expect updates in RAM, video cards, and harddrive space over the years enough to show a blip on Mac Rumors upgrade guide. Either that or lowered prices.

    6. Re:Well, no shit! by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      I had a 2009 Mac Pro that I hacked into being a 2010 Mac Pro with CPU upgrades and a firmware swap. Was waiting for a new one, stopped waiting last year and built an X99-based PC for far less than you would pay for a Mac Pro, and it has far better hardware in it. No, it may not be as small as the trash can, but I don't care about that - I have a corner desk where it sits nicely behind the three 27" displays where nobody can see it anyway.

      Only thing I'm missing is macOS, but they've kind of been screwing that up lately too, so it may be Ubuntu from here out.

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    7. Re:Well, no shit! by John+Allsup · · Score: 2

      My mini mac G4s still work (I plan to replace the hdds with hybrid sshds via an ide-sata adapter), as does an old Quicksilver G4. But my intel iMacs graphics are failing, and is basically impossible to fix without shelling out silly money. Macs used to be an investment. But they have tended to get shorter and shorter lives, and get less and less maintainable.

      --
      John_Chalisque
    8. Re:Well, no shit! by luvirini · · Score: 1

      Apple has lost their way specially in laptops.

      Back in the day when Air came out it was really nice, having better specs than other light computers and yet not outrageously expensive. I know of several people who did not want a mac who bought them and often put windows on them. I nearly bought one too but in the end wanted a few more ports so bought an otherwise worse competitor. At the same time they had the Pro line that had the ports and higher end specs, again in a fairly nice package with only modest premium price.

      Now I look at their light offering and it is behind in specs and much higher price and they do not have a proper replacement for the pro machines with something in the same niche as the old pro series.

      At the same time their competitors have come out with a lot of options that compete with both the weight and features and often surpass them on almost all fronts.

      Now with the Windows 10 thing Apple would have a great time to increase their market share if it was not for the bad options in hardware.

    9. Re:Well, no shit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Intel largely to blame though. I'm still on a Broadwell i7 from 3 years ago and it's within 10% spitting distance of a brand new Kaby Lake.

    10. Re:Well, no shit! by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Apple has lost their way specially in laptops.

      Not even close to being true.

    11. Re:Well, no shit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, many Mac owners are waking up to the fact that they can get a PC with better specs than a Mac at less than 1/3 the cost. And PCs are easier and less expensive to upgrade. And with (Cr)apple taking away features and making throw away (non-upgradable) devices now, its only gonna get worse for them.

      People are finally starting to see through the (Cr)apple hype, and see (Cr)apple's products for what they really are and always have been, poorly designed, cheaply made, vastly overpriced junk!

    12. Re:Well, no shit! by ausekilis · · Score: 2

      It's not entirely Apple's fault. Yes, they haven't really pushed anything *new* in a few years, but they aren't the only ones.

      I have a 4 year old laptop running a 4000 series i7 and I look at websites on occasion to see if there is a laptop out there that has comparable specs + a dedicated graphics card (mine is just built-in intel) and there hasn't been much from any manufacturer in the realm I'm willing to pay.Sure, I can spend $2k or more to get some portable gamestation, but that's not what I want. I like the 15.6" size, the 16GB of RAM, the i7 3.4Ghz processor, and SSD + HD combo. There just isn't anything out there in the $1k-$1.3k range thats worth buying, and there hasn't been in 4 years.

    13. Re:Well, no shit! by ColdWetDog · · Score: 5, Insightful

      the only reason they haven't dropped more is the fanatical userbase who thinks Tim Cook takes golden shits.

      Sorry, this isn't the Reality Distortion Field you are looking for. It's just inertia. If you are on a particular system, moving to another one is a PITA. Yes, it is arguably less so than say, a decade ago but for professionals with complex or demanding work flows it is often a lot of busy work that doesn't get you any further than you were before.

      So if your five year old hardware is working OK - and 5 year old MacPros, MacBook Pros and most Mac Books will get the job done for MOST (not all) people. That will stop being the case eventually and people will drift off to the Dark^HOther side.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    14. Re:Well, no shit! by tepples · · Score: 1

      That and software developers who have received requests to port their applications to macOS and iOS.

    15. Re:Well, no shit! by BasilBrush · · Score: 0

      It's not simply inertia. There's no better OS to move to from Mac OS.

    16. Re:Well, no shit! by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      Thanks. I'm not too worried about it just yet. I still even have a 10.6 workstation because the scanner software for my film scanner I have is PowerPC. Eventually, I'll have to make the leap, if only to have a good, restorable backup of all the files without worrying about old apps and hardware.

    17. Re:Well, no shit! by Thanatiel · · Score: 2

      ... in your opinion.

      --
      Irrelevant news and morons using moderation to mod down what they disagree on. 2018 resolution: so long.
    18. Re:Well, no shit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it's fact.

    19. Re:Well, no shit! by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      Yup... 2010 27" i7 iMac that I had planned on upgrading in late 2015, but really no compelling reason to do it. I had to replace my desk and re-arrange my office in order to make the screen reflections bearable, along with buying a quasi-industrial swing-arm VESA mount for the awful ergonomics... which also required a special adapter from Apple.

      I am afraid of what kind of "holding it wrong" a new machine will introduce, and I like my new desk.

    20. Re:Well, no shit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      remember that fanatical userbase comment a few posts up?

    21. Re:Well, no shit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are not stuck in Aperture, you need to export them as a referenced library if you have not done so already, then they are externally accessible outside of Aperture (the RAWs and Jpegs).

      You could also move your library directly to Photos.app, but no one should be stupid enough to do so from Aperture.

      Lightroom and Capture One Pro have direct importation of Aperture Libraries but not everything is preserved.

      I am hoping that Luminar shapes up to have decent DAM capabilities but so far *nothing* currently on the market works as smoothly as Aperture does, even now. Photo management and development is pretty craptacular.

      Lest anyone goes on about Lightroom, it has a pretty poor UI, just remember that Adobe originally canned Lightroom and brought it back when Apple debuted Aperture. Also Adobe subscription fees suck. Lightroom6 can be considered as dead as Aperture as far as I can see, Adobe will just keep pushing the cloud versions instead.

    22. Re:Well, no shit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am in the same boat with an early 2008 machine. I am basically getting by with a flashed Nvidia GTX 970 and waiting to see if a real Mac Pro is released.

    23. Re:Well, no shit! by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sadly he's not far off. And a reminder that the comparative isn't always indicative of superiority. In other words, "better" doesn't mean that it's better than good.

      What's there to choose from? Linux. Great idea, but hardly the system for the non-geek. Sad to say it, folks, but it ain't. Even after all those years. Odd as it may sound, the main reason is that there's so much to choose from. And it all already starts with the distribution. And then which GUI? And which editor? And which...

      And Windows, let's be honest, Windows is itself living off inertia. There has been exactly zero improvement since XP, and depending on whether you consider privacy an important aspect you could easily say that it's been getting worse.

      So yes, I can't really argue against him. Mac OS is probably the best, or let's rather say, the least crappy OS currently supported by its maker.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    24. Re:Well, no shit! by tsqr · · Score: 2, Interesting

      No, it's fact.

      Is this one of those "alternative facts" I've been hearing about?

    25. Re:Well, no shit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OS X + NetRestore + Casper/JAMF is easier to manage than Windows + MDT + Group Policy.

      Target mode on Macs is a life saver.

    26. Re:Well, no shit! by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Not the hardware, but the use of a desktop is causing the decline.
      I have a laptop over 5 years old and other than it being bulky and I lost some rubber tabs by today's standards there is isn't any motivation for me to upgrade. There isn't software that takes advantage of the newer faster software that I use. The stuff that I do use is more limited by network speed than my pc speed.
      If I were into gaming or CAD perhaps I could use a faster computer but for my needs it is on par with my newer work PC

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    27. Re: Well, no shit! by cyber-vandal · · Score: 2

      Zero improvement? How can you possibly make that statement. Just the move to 64bit is worth the upgrade, not to mention all the security hardening (yes I know it's still shit but I'm comparing 7 to XP). The rationalisation of the file structure was also long overdue and whatever you think of PowerShell it's way better than BAT files or WSH.

    28. Re:Well, no shit! by s.petry · · Score: 1

      Who's opinion do you think they were providing, yours? Sheesh

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    29. Re:Well, no shit! by um...+Lucas · · Score: 1

      Ditto.

      My late 2013 MBP with retina is still serving me just fine... At least, when i look at each new batch that comes out, I don't see any compelling reason to upgrade... Well, no... there is an upgrade path, but it involves going Dell and Ubuntu.

      Sad that its 2017 and Apple can't deliver a knockout punch to its own 2013 tech.

      WHat'd the latest round bring? Touchbar and removal of all ports except USB C... I"m sure those were features everyone in the world was dying for...

    30. Re:Well, no shit! by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 0

      It's not simply inertia. There's no better OS to move to from Mac OS.

      How true. Windows is a joke by comparison to macOS, and though the Linux world is full of promise, the fragmentation problem keeps that world in perpetual promise mode. If you specify high on the build-to-order options when you buy Apple hardware, you won't need to upgrade it for two or even three PC lifetimes.

    31. Re:Well, no shit! by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 2

      "Sure, it's great, if you want a CLI that's 10 years out of date."

      That's the sacred Unix command line you're talking about. If you think Apple fans are the world's most hopeless cultists, you haven't met a Unix fan.

    32. Re:Well, no shit! by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      Although Adobe relentlessly pushes its infernal subscription model, Lightroom is their one good application that is still available as an install. And it doesn't even cost a fortune.

    33. Re: Well, no shit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_XP_Professional_x64_Edition

    34. Re: Well, no shit! by thesupraman · · Score: 2

      Exactly! I agree with you.

      Apple has lost their way in desktops far far more than they have lost their way in laptops, where they have only moderately lost their way. They cannot even take a standard USB flash stick!

      Friend of mines 2016 MBP has filled it's screen. Crack developed right across it over a few days of sitting on a desk. Obvious manufacturing flaw.
      So you think Apple will cover it under warrantee? Not a chance. Apparently it managed to drop itself then put itself back on the desk.. Without anyone knowing. Quite impressive really (and with no external sign of damage even!)
      Ifixit gives them a 1 for repairability.. I can only assume it's not a zero because you could replace the... Oh wait... Nothing at all.

    35. Re:Well, no shit! by swillden · · Score: 1

      What's there to choose from? Linux. Great idea, but hardly the system for the non-geek. Sad to say it, folks, but it ain't.

      Lots of non-geeks happily using Linux disagree. In fact, for the least computer-savvy a good consumer-oriented Linux (i.e. Ubuntu) is generally a far better choice than Windows because it's harder to mess up. ChromeOS is even better that way.

      Odd as it may sound, the main reason is that there's so much to choose from. And it all already starts with the distribution.

      Nonsense. For non-geeks there's exactly one distribution, Ubuntu.

      And then which GUI?

      Again, there's exactly one, and it's Ubuntu's default.

      And which editor?

      Editor? You've clearly shifted away from discussing non-geeks here.

      For many, many users, Ubuntu has everything they need. Actually, it has vastly more than the many need... many (most?) users only need a web browser, which is why Chromebooks are increasingly popular.

      And Windows, let's be honest, Windows is itself living off inertia. There has been exactly zero improvement since XP, and depending on whether you consider privacy an important aspect you could easily say that it's been getting worse.

      Agreed.

      So yes, I can't really argue against him. Mac OS is probably the best, or let's rather say, the least crappy OS currently supported by its maker.

      OS X is fine. Windows is fine. Ubuntu is fine. They all work. Depending on what applications you need, one of them may not work so well for you... Linux is most likely to be problematic that way, Windows least.

      --
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    36. Re: Well, no shit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am still waiting for WinFS.

    37. Re:Well, no shit! by lucm · · Score: 1

      the fragmentation problem

      There is no fragmentation problem. If you want a retarded proprietary o/s, there's Windows. If you want a retarded proprietary o/s that only runs on overpriced, antiquated, non-upgradeable hardware, there's Apple. If you want to choose components and get things just the way you want them, there's Linux.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    38. Re:Well, no shit! by lucm · · Score: 1

      the iMac (a laptop in a monitor)

      *chuckles*

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    39. Re:Well, no shit! by sexconker · · Score: 1

      MDT is trash through and through.

    40. Re:Well, no shit! by JanneM · · Score: 1

      I still even have a 10.6 workstation because the scanner software for my film scanner I have is PowerPC.

      Vuescan works OK and is available for OSX, Windows and Linux. It supports a huge range of scanners old and new. I've been using it for many years and I can say it gives quality results, while the UI is at least no worse than other scanner software (not a high bar to clear, of course). And since it's cross-platform it's one less thing to lock you in to any specific system.

      --
      Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
    41. Re: Well, no shit! by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      Exactly! I agree with you.

      Apple has lost their way in desktops far far more than they have lost their way in laptops, where they have only moderately lost their way. They cannot even take a standard USB flash stick!

      Friend of mines 2016 MBP has filled it's screen. Crack developed right across it over a few days of sitting on a desk. Obvious manufacturing flaw. So you think Apple will cover it under warrantee? Not a chance. Apparently it managed to drop itself then put itself back on the desk.. Without anyone knowing. Quite impressive really (and with no external sign of damage even!) Ifixit gives them a 1 for repairability.. I can only assume it's not a zero because you could replace the... Oh wait... Nothing at all.

      Give the damn Port thing a rest, will ya? If you can't be bothered to buy a $2.50 adapter to use that USB stick, or buy one of the USB sticks with USB-C on one end, and USB-A on the other, you don't need to have a computer. Change requires Change. Get over it. Two years from now, you'll understand, as NO laptops will have USB-A connectors. Apple just got there first.

      And sorry, your friend is a liar, or you are a liar, or someone who knocked the laptop off the table is a liar. Or your friend or someone else doesn't want to admit they slammed the lid closed or jammed the laptop in a computer bag with a pen sitting on the keyboard area. That would have nicely cracked the display with no outward signs of impact damage. I almost did it once with my MacBook Pro, just a week or so ago. Had a pen sitting in the area above the keyboard. Closed the lid. Fortunately, I never let the lid "snap shut", or I can well imagine that that would have been that for my display.

      Glass doesn't "just crack". Never. Apple glues their displays together. There are no fasteners to torque-down too hard. If there were stresses that intense, it would have simply pushed the lid apart as the glue hardened.

      Apple is historically quite lenient with their warranty claims. But if I had been the Apple employee receiving that unit, I would have denied warranty repair, too. And I say that as someone who has spent some time working as a repair tech for electronic gear.

    42. Re:Well, no shit! by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Other than the OS used to design Macs, you mean (Windows being used to run Solidworks and Altium, which design the mechanicals and electricals).

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    43. Re:Well, no shit! by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the reminder - I had a customer with an old Epson scanner on Windows 10 the same day you posted this. Vendor program would freeze any time you try to scan - Vuescan has a decently familiar UI to anyone that uses built-in scanner software.

    44. Re:Well, no shit! by brantondaveperson · · Score: 1

      OSX comes with Photos, which integrates with their iCloud photo library offering, which integrates with your iDevice. A shared photo library across all your devices, optionally only downloading low resolution photos if you're short of space. It offers RAW support, non-destructive editing, all that face-recognition nonsense, etc etc.

      There is no competing product for this anywhere. Google have a photo library, but there's no desktop app that works anything like Photos does on a Mac. That alone is worth the price of admission, which isn't even that much when you compare similarly-well-built laptops.

    45. Re:Well, no shit! by brantondaveperson · · Score: 1

      Yeah - it's great - all you have to do is write all the software you need.

    46. Re:Well, no shit! by brantondaveperson · · Score: 1

      Sucks I know. I just gave up in the end and moved to Photos. The only major thing missing is the "Edit in Photoshop" feature, which I believe might be possible via a plugin, though I'm not certain. The shared photo library between the mac, the cloud (for backup) and my ipod touch, is pretty much killer.

    47. Re:Well, no shit! by brantondaveperson · · Score: 1

      but no one should be stupid enough to do so from Aperture.

      I guess I'm pretty dumb then.

    48. Re:Well, no shit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sure, the mac line-up could use some attention.. but with windows 10 driving people away from windows, you would think that apple could at least maintain their share of the market.

      i guess more people are doing without the traditional 'computer' and going solely mobile device. which is fine by apple, i'm sure, because of the walled garden and sweet "app store" commissions.

    49. Re: Well, no shit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wrong. Linux Mint beats Ubuntu''s UI in every way. No fucking 'tiles' cluttering the screen and you can open as many instances as you like. Ubuntu copied all the UI errors of ms.

    50. Re: Well, no shit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Linux Mint is just an Ubuntu variant, so no contradiction there.

    51. Re:Well, no shit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >> Apple has lost their way specially in laptops.
      > Not even close to being true.

      For me, it sure is true.

      I use a 2008 MacBook Pro. I've only been able to keep it this long because I upgraded the SSD, RAM, and optical drive. It has USB-A ports, FireWire, Gigabit Ethernet, and mic/headphone jacks. It's reasonably thin and light for what it does. All my peripherals work with it. The only thing missing I wish it had was a retina display.

      Why don't I get a newer one? Because I don't want to have to buy/carry a shitload of adapters or buy all new peripherals, and have to replace the damn thing 3 years later anyway because they're not upgradeable anymore. My next laptop will not be an Apple unless they change their tune.

    52. Re: Well, no shit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "macOS" is a stupid name for OS X. Especially considering that it was introduced by a stupid fagget.

    53. Re: Well, no shit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, MacBook Amature 2016 is a joke enough to move away from apple and stay as far as possible

    54. Re: Well, no shit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope. Linux is still a Frankenstein system. Too much crap to choose from which most is shit. Regular users need one thing. Not 20 that do the same thing. That's why OS X and windows rule. Especially OS X. Often too many. Voices are confusing and no one but a geek wants to research to do simple things. And ah regular people don't give a shit about cli. Sorry. I'm a programmer. I prefer OS X to Linux. Its cleaner.

    55. Re:Well, no shit! by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Do you know one of those users?
      Never meet one ... would be an interesting talk I think.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    56. Re:Well, no shit! by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      +1 Stagnant hardware is a death sentence in the PC industry. Frankly I am shocked they haven't dropped more. Too much of their desktop hardware is not only stagnant, but has mobile grade stuff on the inside, making the extra Apple tax that much harder to stomach.

      Well, good thing they released the MacBook Pro then, which meant they increased sales in Q4 compared to last year, while the whole PC market declined. Yeah, if only hey didn't release new hardware, then Apple would sure be doomed.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    57. Re: Well, no shit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Two of your comments in this thread already indicated that. However, it is good that you're now aware of this. It is not too late to learn, really. I strongly suspect you will just keep being dumb. Inertia, laziness, and ignorance are horrible traits.

    58. Re:Well, no shit! by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      the fragmentation problem

      There is no fragmentation problem.

      Are you fucking kidding me? If you chose anything but Linux, Linux users will blame you for not choosing Linux. But if you have chosen Linux, be certain to have your ass ripped open for having chosen the wrong distro.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    59. Re: Well, no shit! by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      Well, MacBook Amature 2016 is a joke enough to move away from apple and stay as far as possible

      Yeah, that's why "Mac sales were up in Q4 2016 compared to Q4 2015". Because people are staying away from the machine released in that quarter.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    60. Re:Well, no shit! by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      Other than the OS used to design Macs, you mean (Windows being used to run Solidworks and Altium, which design the mechanicals and electricals).

      Oh? Do you know something the second guy in this discussion doesn't know?

      Apple Industrial Design Group uses Autodesk Alias 3D for surfaces, Rhinoceros 3D for conceptual design and Nx (unigraphics) for manufacturing design.

      All of these of course run on macOS.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    61. Re:Well, no shit! by loufoque · · Score: 1

      Mac OS X is unusable as it is. The default terminal is shit for example.
      It is like Windows, you need to install plenty of software that you manually download from third parties to make it somewhat usable.

    62. Re:Well, no shit! by loufoque · · Score: 1

      My wife has been wanting a Mac desktop for a while.
      We still haven't bought anything because their line-up is just bad, plus they decided to raise their prices significantly using the fall of the British pound as an excuse.

    63. Re:Well, no shit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, gods. Aperture.

      I loved that package. It did everything I needed in a raw image post processing application, and it did so in a way that I found very comfortable and easy to use.

      Then Apple killed it. Offered up Photos as a replacement. No, Apple. Photos is not a replacement for Aperture. For you to even suggest that it is says that you're smoking some pretty serious hallucinogens, and not of a good variety. It took me a year or two before I finally settled on Capture One Pro as a replacement (I may shift to darktable at some point, perhaps, but Capture One is working well enough for the time being.)

      Apple is slowly but surely strangling the high end, "power user" market. It might be small in numbers, but the influence that comes from that small group is disproportionately large. I persuaded my sister to buy a Mac Mini, back when they first shifted to the Intel CPU, for example - she made the move to OS X, and has never looked back. But would I do that today? Honestly, I'd hesitate. Because Apple is making hardware design decisions based upon making systems that are adequate - maybe - for the masses, but inadequate for a serious user, and that makes me question whether their desktop OS is going to be a genuine player in five or ten years.

      My 2010 Mac Pro is still working just fine. But if they haven't come up with an updated model by the time they discontinue macOS support for it, I may end up having to reconsider whether or not to stay on the platform. The key thing I need? A large - minimum 2, preferably 3 or 4, TB - hard disk. 1 TB of SSD is at once both too small (I need the capacity for my photos), and too large (I don't need that much high-performance storage; 250-500 GB is more than ample for the OS and applications.) And I really, really, really don't need the hassle of powering on an external disk unit, no matter how it's connected, every time I turn the system on...

    64. Re: Well, no shit! by Wootery · · Score: 1

      I agree, some things have improved -- there's even something vaguely akin to UNIX-style permissions these days. Direct3D 12 seems to be a solid technology too, if you're into that kind of thing.

      And of course plenty of things have got worse. Ever-worsening system requirements, Metro/UWP, the Windows Store monopoly, adverts in your start menu, mandatory reboots that might strike at any time, and the horrendous 'telemetry' assault on privacy that can't be disabled.

    65. Re: Well, no shit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think that has more to do with that terrible Windows 10. Lots of people had enough, and jumped ship.
      Around now those people that would leave Windows 10 have already done so, and thus the new MAC sales decline.

    66. Re:Well, no shit! by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      >> Apple has lost their way specially in laptops. > Not even close to being true.

      For me, it sure is true.

      Yeah, it's especially true for anyone who never owned one. And the more they sell, the more obvious it is to them.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    67. Re: Well, no shit! by terjeber · · Score: 1

      Didn't work. Was junk.

    68. Re:Well, no shit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He stated it as a fact.

    69. Re:Well, no shit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are screwing Linux too with systemd...for me it will be probably TrueOS next.

    70. Re:Well, no shit! by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Most everybody that wants a Mac already has one.

      It's worse than that.

      People who have Macs are going back to other computers because they've realised there's nothing special about a Mac and cant justify paying double for a computer. With belts tightening, why would you pay twice as much for a computer that does less?

      Face it, Apple was a fad, peaked and is now falling back into obscurity.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    71. Re: Well, no shit! by ruir · · Score: 1

      Check the Serial Number to see if yours a faulty model. There are models with a know fault that causes problems in the iMac line, something about a faulty support, cannot remember the specific details.

    72. Re:Well, no shit! by ruir · · Score: 1

      Do not be a jackass.
      I have owned loads of iMacs and Macbook Pros, even a PowerBook G4, but I am in my lasts straws with my Macbook Pro from 2013.
      OS/X is not as stable as it used to be, the hardware leaves a lot to desire, the decision of cutting keys is insane...
      My next computer will be something running FreeBSD or TrueOS.

    73. Re:Well, no shit! by ruir · · Score: 1

      Same shit in Europe...They used the fall of Euro as an excuse to raise 600 USD the price.
      And then they wonder why sales are less...
      I wont give 600 USD to our greedy Apple distributors.
      Will buy far faster a Dell, or god forbids, a Lenovo.
      And Apple does not care shit we are being robbed blind of 600USD, and that is the saddest part.
      If it werent for that, I would have bought last year a 15'' Macbook Pro, and in xmas time a 13'' inch for my wife, but my father did not raise a son to be fucked in the butt by the local Apple dealers.
      So I am still clinging to my 2013 i7 Macbook Pro, and gave an Asus to my wife.

    74. Re: Well, no shit! by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      Check the Serial Number to see if yours a faulty model. There are models with a know fault that causes problems in the iMac line, something about a faulty support, cannot remember the specific details.

      While there are alleged reports of MacBook Pro screens spontaneously cracking, the most recent ones appear to be from around 2007-2008, with one report from 2013. Nothing about the 2016 MBP; although I admit it is pretty early-on to have that sort of thing show up.

    75. Re:Well, no shit! by swillden · · Score: 1

      OTOH if, like me, you dislike OSX Photos, don't use iCloud or have an iDevice, it's really annoying how Photos insists on popping up whenever you connect a camera or insert an SD card. I consider Photos one of the things I most dislike about using OS X.

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    76. Re: Well, no shit! by swillden · · Score: 1

      Wrong. Linux Mint beats Ubuntu''s UI in every way. No fucking 'tiles' cluttering the screen and you can open as many instances as you like. Ubuntu copied all the UI errors of ms.

      Irrelevant. For non-geeks there's exactly one distribution, Ubuntu.

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    77. Re:Well, no shit! by tzanger · · Score: 1

      Very, very true, IMO.

      I'm typing this on a 2012 11" MBA. I maxxed out all the knobs when configuring it and, aside from the "would be nice" of a retina screen (or at least 1920x1080) and 16 or 32G of RAM, this thing has been amazing. I have no need to upgrade and given what Apple offered lately, no desire to upgrade either. I can do my embedded development, EDA, run a Win7 and Linux VM for the things I need to do on those platforms... I'm good, and it's been 4 years since I bought this laptop.

      That has never happened on any laptop I've previously owned, including my old love, the pre-Lenovo Thinkpads.

    78. Re: Well, no shit! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      " Is there? Which one? Ubuntu? Kubuntu? Edubuntu? Whateverbuntu? And why that one? There's so many others. How about that Steam one? There is this comparison page that lists 10 Linuxes for non-geeks, why Ubuntu and not that derived one from the Ukraine (forgot the name)? Uh, and what's different in, whatsitcalled, Debian? What about Sparky, is that any good? Hmm, they list here something called "Play Linux", and I mostly play games, is that better than Ubuntu?"

      And so on. Sorry, but "there is only one distribution" is patently wrong. Far too many try to cater to the non-geek, and the non-geek has NO chance to distinguish them.

      --
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    79. Re: Well, no shit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As someone who has to use both Windows and Mac OS, I have to say that I hate Mac OS. I simply cannot stand the file management. Not to mention it has many annoying quirks that add up to an unpleasant experience to me, such as not being able to control the volume of a monitor with built-in speakers through the master volume control from the desktop.

      I am in no way a fan of Windows, but at least it feels intuitive.

    80. Re: Well, no shit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The new Asus Zenbook is beautiful. I would take it over the new MacBook.

    81. Re:Well, no shit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apparently you weren't around for the OS 9 vs OS X Quark Express days.

      Same shit from Apple and their vendors for decades. Just flip a coin as to which is expecting you to bend over this time.

    82. Re:Well, no shit! by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      Good riddance and good luck - you'll need it. Meanwhile other will continue to buy Macs.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    83. Re: Well, no shit! by slazzy · · Score: 1

      I feel like Apple is abandoning their pro userbase and just focusing on consumer products - it's going to start a death spiral for Apple in the long term. The pro users (like us slashdot crowd) while a small portion of the market are actually the most valuable as they are the same people who recommend their products to everyone else. I suspect it won't be long before someone else steps in and builds pro machines, and massive success from the consumer market will follow. Probably google is the company with the technology and finances to pull it off.

      --
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    84. Re:Well, no shit! by ruir · · Score: 1

      Am I alone? You sir, are an idiot.

    85. Re: Well, no shit! by ruir · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the remark, the tidbit about 2016 escaped me.

    86. Re: Well, no shit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > The new Asus Zenbook is beautiful. I would take it over the new MacBook.

      But what if you want more than 16GB of RAM?

    87. Re: Well, no shit! by chacal_lachaise · · Score: 1

      My Air was doing well, six years old, until I drank it with coffee two weeks ago. My university had hoped to provide us with new MacBook Pros this year (the one I received is also 6 yo), but the money didn't come through ("hope for next year.") Aside from consumers, institutions can lower sales when budgets fail to provide.

    88. Re: Well, no shit! by gnunick · · Score: 1

      Wrong. Linux Mint beats Ubuntu''s UI in every way. No fucking 'tiles' cluttering the screen and you can open as many instances as you like. Ubuntu copied all the UI errors of ms.

      "Tiles"? In Ubuntu? What on earth are you talking about?

      --
      I have no special gift, I am only passionately curious. --Albert Einstein
    89. Re: Well, no shit! by gweilo8888 · · Score: 1

      Obviously, considering that most of the world doesn't use Mac OS and yet somehow gets along just fine without it.

    90. Re: Well, no shit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can change what action is triggered when hooking up a camera using the Image Capture app. Why it's not iTunes or system preferences on the other hand...

    91. Re: Well, no shit! by vandamme · · Score: 1

      Maybe, but Kubuntu, Lubuntu, Xubuntu, Ubuntu MATE, or Ubuntu with Cinnamon?

      And why not a derivative, like Zorin, Mint, Bodhi ... etc.?

      Choice is good. If it's not, there's Ubuntu Unity.

    92. Re: Well, no shit! by swillden · · Score: 1

      Is there? Which one? Ubuntu? Kubuntu? Edubuntu? Whateverbuntu?

      Ubuntu. Non-geeks don't even know about the others.

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    93. Re:Well, no shit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, if you happen to have any problems with Linux or it's applications, be wary of asking for any help. You will get a whole facefull of attitude far too often:

      - RTFM;
      - Newb!
      - Have you read every Linux thread on the planet yet? Why not?
      - Why not just IM Linus Torvalds directly?
      - Write your own! Oh, you're not a programmer? Well that's your problem, enroll in programming courses right now!
      - Oh, you are a programmer? Well obviously you are lazy. Get to work!

      There are lots of great supporters of Linux of course. But even among the decent human beings to be found there, the whole Linux thing tends to the preachy side. The Stallman acolytes are sure to give you a lecture on the evils of closed source and the absolute superiority of FOSS, no matter the circumstances or evidence of the situation.

    94. Re: Well, no shit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, macOS is a wonderful OS, but if Apple lets the hardware stagnate, the wonderful OS becomes useless.

    95. Re: Well, no shit! by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the remark, the tidbit about 2016 escaped me.

      And it seems like there are few enough reports overall that it is unlikely an engineering or manufacturing defect.

      I know that I'd be ready to submit to a polygraph if I had a MBP (or any computer) that just spontaneously developed a cracked display. Since it is impossible to prove a negative, I'm really not sure what you would do under those conditions. But I can tell you with a virtual certainty that NO manufacturer, unless there was a KNOWN defect, would cover such a thing under warranty.

      Would you?

      So it simply isn't "an Apple thing".

    96. Re: Well, no shit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just out of curiosity, what's wrong with the file management?

    97. Re:Well, no shit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Sure, it's great, if you want a CLI that's 10 years out of date."

      That's the sacred Unix command line you're talking about. If you think Apple fans are the world's most hopeless cultists, you haven't met a Unix fan.

      Spoken like someone who has no fucking clue what they're talking about and whose computer usage is limited to a web, office, and art/music programs.

    98. Re:Well, no shit! by danbuter · · Score: 1

      Too bad the "Pro" is a complete turd. It's ok for home use, but graphics designers and other pros used to macs being the go-to device for work are screwed.

    99. Re: Well, no shit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is with these people saying they have one laptop or desktop so you need to run virtual machines. I make an average salary in the sf Bay Area. I'm not rich or wealthy. Even when I first came here I had a windows desktop and laptop. Now I have a mac book pro retina 2013? And 2 mini pcs running hyper v for dev stuff, and 3 laptops. I don't have to choose. I have them all. This is basic.

      One better than the other? Who cares. Have atleast one of each you idiots. It just doesn't matter anymore.

    100. Re: Well, no shit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is optimized for apple software. You can see the comparisons on YouTube. Video: finalcut versus adobe. The same projects built out, same effects... optimizations off. Fcp was almost 2x faster rendering.

      See the people here don't realize. It is the software people want. We all know Linux takes less ram than windows. And specific optimization are incredibly fast. I only keep mac around for fcp. I've looked at adobe and other products but I don't want the time to retrain. Fuck that. Just to spite apple? Grow up people. You either get it or you don't.

    101. Re:Well, no shit! by thoughtlover · · Score: 1

      Hardware, be damned... Apple, long ago, started abandoning their power users/creatives as every OS update included eye-candy, but reduced actual features within the OS... like copying files in the Finder...no longer do you see how fast files are being transferred or even the filename.

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    102. Re:Well, no shit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Aside from the fact that some of the advanced features of Aperture still aren't implemented in Photos (and probably never will be), my biggest issue with this is the fact that iCloud Photo Library counts against your iCloud storage. Which is a truly pathetic 5 GB at the free tier. My library, with lots of RAW images, is rapidly approaching 1 TB. In order to use iCloud Photo Library, I'd have to pay for the highest 2 TB storage tier, currently $20/month. No, thank you!

      Apple was correct to make its predecessor, Photo Stream, free and not count against your storage total. Thankfully they haven't shut it off - I still use it to sync my mobile photos back to my main library on the Mac.

      The other major issue with iCloud Photo Library (and Photo Stream) is that it's absolute shit for families. Apple must be full of single engineers, because they clearly don't understand how families work. Have they not heard of the family photo album?? In today's cloud-based terms, that means an iCloud Photo Library where all devices in the family, regardless of who "owns" them, automatically sync their photos with the one family library in the cloud. None of this cumbersome bullshit they have now, where you have to manually copy photos to a separate "shared" library. My wife and I want to have one library; her iPhone photos, my iPhone photos, and my DSLR photos (via the Mac) should all seamlessly and automatically sync to all of our devices. Can't do it.

      I'm a day late replying, blah blah blah.

    103. Re:Well, no shit! by lucm · · Score: 1

      Yeah - it's great - all you have to do is write all the software you need.

      Okay so what you're implying is that there's more software available for a Mac than Linux?

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    104. Re:Well, no shit! by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      Too bad the "Pro" is a complete turd. It's ok for home use, but graphics designers and other pros used to macs being the go-to device for work are screwed.

      Well, if anyone knows what a turd is, it's most definitely you. Know yourself, you keep mumbling.

      Anyway: did your computer get a recommendation from Consumer Reports?

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    105. Re:Well, no shit! by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      Am I ... an idiot.

      Yes, you are You should definitely get a real computer - Fisher Price makes just the right one for you.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    106. Re:Well, no shit! by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      OTOH if, like me, you dislike OSX Photos, don't use iCloud or have an iDevice, it's really annoying how Photos insists on popping up whenever you connect a camera or insert an SD card. I consider Photos one of the things I most dislike about using OS X.

      Well, if you dislike that behaviour so much, why don't you just turn it off? It's not like it's hard to find - unless you are focused on not finding it, or don't actually have a Mac.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    107. Re:Well, no shit! by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      Yeah - it's great - all you have to do is write all the software you need.

      Okay so what you're implying is that there's more software available for a Mac than Linux?

      Are you implying there isn't? Why? Because Linux has so much proprietary software that can't just be compiled on any POSIX system?

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    108. Re:Well, no shit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Mac OS X is unusable as it is. The default terminal is shit for example.

      Funny, it works just fine for me to do what I use a terminal for, i.e. typing commands in.

    109. Re:Well, no shit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL if CR is what apple worshippers are using now as a reference that is pretty pathetically desperate.

    110. Re:Well, no shit! by brantondaveperson · · Score: 1

      More software that you need, yes.

    111. Re:Well, no shit! by brantondaveperson · · Score: 1

      Perhaps he's just failed to type

      defaults -currentHost write com.apple.ImageCapture disableHotPlug -bool YES

      At a command prompt?

    112. Re:Well, no shit! by brantondaveperson · · Score: 1

      May I ask what application you do use for managing a collection of photos, and what backup solution you employ for them? I am assuming that you use the machine for photos, since suggesting that you keep on plugging cameras into the machine sort of implies that.

    113. Re:Well, no shit! by swillden · · Score: 1

      I mostly use Google Photos for finding photos, but those aren't fully quality. I keep the full quality images (including RAWs) on my desktop machine in a directory tree organized by date (YYYY/MM/DD). I wrote a script that places them in the correct directories by date. Then I back them up to Google Drive. I got a promotional deal a few years ago that gives me 1 TB of Drive space free (no time limit). They also get synced to my wife's laptop, so we have two copies in the house, one of them easily portable, and two copies in the cloud, one full quality and one "high" quality (Google's term; and they are pretty good).

      I also use kphotoalbum (a KDE program I've contributed to off and on for years) as a photo manager, but it requires manually tagging images (though the tagging flow is highly optimized and very efficient) and Google's automatic keyword search is so good that I've fallen behind on tagging, making it kphotoalbum less useful.

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    114. Re:Well, no shit! by brantondaveperson · · Score: 1

      That sure sounds like alot of work, especially the script-writing part to file by date, when the date's already in the file, and you can't search by range easily, etc. I can see your point regarding 1TB of free space, I have to pay something like $12 a month for that, but if that $12 means I don't have (another) script to write, then I'm very happy.

      I mean, I'm not going to tell you that your approach is wrong, but it's just that you get all of that for nothing (ahem, other than paying for the online storage, but you've got to admit that your free 1TB of space is a bit of a fluke!) if you just give up and use Photos. Still, I'm happy you've got them backed up somewhere, if I had a dollar for every time someone has asked me if all their photos were gone when their HD crashed (yes, sorry. Yes, all of them. No I can't get them back. Yeah that does suck... etc), well, I'd have about two bucks, but it sure was a bit of a shit-show for those two guys.

    115. Re:Well, no shit! by swillden · · Score: 1

      That sure sounds like a lot of work, especially the script-writing part to file by date, when the date's already in the file

      The script uses the date in the file (from the EXIF data, specifically).

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  2. Strategy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bravely making products that few want to buy?

    1. Re:Strategy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the word your looking for is "Courageously"

  3. I don't think Apple cares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's pretty obvious that they aren't interested in the Mac anymore. And why should they be? They don't make much money off of it, comparatively, and it's a LOT of work to keep updating MacOS.

    I say good riddance. There was a time when MacOS was pretty nice, but that was a LONG time ago. Now, it seems quaint and underpowered and pointless.

    1. Re:I don't think Apple cares by MachineShedFred · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They might not directly make much money from Mac, but they indirectly make shitloads of money from Mac, because Mac is the development environment for the iOS App Store.

      Keeping macOS a going affair is a big piece of their product portfolio, unless they do a shit ton of work to port Xcode somewhere else.

      --
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    2. Re:I don't think Apple cares by DickBreath · · Score: 2

      If the two major pillars of the prison camp, er . . . um, I meant walled garden are the Mac and the iPhone, then letting either pillar fail gives people significantly less reason to stay in the walled garden.

      If you get a non-Mac PC / laptop, then suddenly you are a bit more interested in your phone being able to interoperate in a world that isn't 100% apple.

      Something that is sub par within the walled garden forces people to venture outside the walled garden. Then they see it from the outside. On the inside the walls may be pretty. But from the outside, they see the barbed wire, machine gun emplacements, etc. They may also realize a whole world of other brands of products not made by Apple. Smart watches. TVs set top boxes. Home automation.

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    3. Re: I don't think Apple cares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they give up on Macs, maybe they will simply start supporting MacOS to work on non-Apple PC's.

    4. Re:I don't think Apple cares by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      Something that is sub par within the walled garden forces people to venture outside the walled garden. Then they see it from the outside. On the inside the walls may be pretty. But from the outside, they see the barbed wire, machine gun emplacements, etc. They may also realize a whole world of other brands of products not made by Apple. Smart watches. TVs set top boxes. Home automation.

      Nice hyperbole.

    5. Re: I don't think Apple cares by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      What's annoying about that idea is that people will say Apple did this once and it almost killed them, however back then they needed to sell Macs as that was their main money machine.

      Since Macs are now but a tiny slice of sales and profits, it would make sense for Apple to start selling macOS for non-Apple computers. They only need to list the supported CPUs, chipsets/motherboards and GPUs.

      --
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    6. Re: I don't think Apple cares by senatorpjt · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't it make more sense for them to charge manufacturers a bunch of money to have specific hardware configurations certified as OSX compatible?

    7. Re:I don't think Apple cares by Boronx · · Score: 1

      It's called a metaphor.

    8. Re: I don't think Apple cares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It'd be a disaster either way. The Apple user base is people who were fed up with Windows glitches and wanted something that was more like an appliance. If anyone can make the appliance, standards or no, it won't "just work" anymore.

      Apple has to make their own stuff and finally wake up to the fact that the tablet / mobile market isn't what it was ten years ago.

    9. Re:I don't think Apple cares by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      It's called a metaphor.

      But when a metaphor contains over-the-top exaggeration, it's called " hyperbole". Or, more correctly, a hyperbolic metaphor.

    10. Re: I don't think Apple cares by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      What's annoying about that idea is that people will say Apple did this once and it almost killed them, however back then they needed to sell Macs as that was their main money machine.

      Since Macs are now but a tiny slice of sales and profits, it would make sense for Apple to start selling macOS for non-Apple computers. They only need to list the supported CPUs, chipsets/motherboards and GPUs.

      Sure, they don't need to sell Macs to make money. But why would they further develop macOS and then give away for free? What would be the point?

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    11. Re:I don't think Apple cares by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      It's called a braindead metaphor.

      FTFY

      --
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    12. Re: I don't think Apple cares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think free is the model discussed here. But moving to what Bill Gates suggested which was license MacOS to a set of targeted 3rd parties with the current management this might be best. If Apple went to a licensing and certification/QA program this could work. Basically require testing of hardware before it goes out see the LG monitor.

    13. Re: I don't think Apple cares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would be happy if Apple didn't even license MacOS to third parties, just sold it separately to run on third party hardware.

    14. Re: I don't think Apple cares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stupid. People see it all the time. Go to Best Buy. See all the brands. You attempt to make apple users look stupid and blind. Well they make more money than you, have higher educations, and are well aware of the ecosystem. Its called having eyes. Try saying mac buyers only buy one type of shoes or jacket. Doesn't make sense.

      Stop pretending everyone is ignorant and unaware except you. You are the one living in the fantasy world. Look in the mirror. You are not as smart as you think you are. Not even close. Grow up child brain.

  4. Lacking a Product Refresh? by nucrash · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Let's see, they managed to renew two models of Mac last year. The MacBook and the MacBook Pro. Everything else was stagnant. There was almost no reason at all to purchase a Mac. While the MacBook update was actually superior to the previous version, overall the update was pretty bland. It's like Henry Ford took over and said, I have the perfect car, why should I change. Granted, Intel's missteps hasn't helped either. They haven't exactly put out a homerun in the processor market since the days of SandyBridge. In the realm of the Mac Mini, their desktop actually regressed from the previous version in only have a dual core processor.

    Maybe if they actually do something this year, we can get behind them and buy their products again. If not, I am certain they will continue to slide down to the level of other vendors.

    --
    Place something witty here
    1. Re:Lacking a Product Refresh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean slide down to the level of all the other vendors that are eating their lunch in terms of sales numbers despite being limited by all the same excuses you offered?

    2. Re:Lacking a Product Refresh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Soldering RAM and SSD to the mobo is an instant "no-go" for a workstation for me. The goofy function row display just adds cost for a feature I didn't ask for. Sure, I'm not everyone, but I can say out of the dozens of macbook wielding "startup entrepreneurs", no one has upgraded to the new generation and those that need replacements are scouring Craigslist and the like for used ones (my favorites are from 2012). I hope Apple is leading us to the future of computing, but I don't like what I'm seeing so far.

    3. Re:Lacking a Product Refresh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Apple used to be known for quality hardware. My 2012 MacBook Pro was quality hardware, and I could get to the parts to replace and upgrade them. It's turning into the ship of Theseus, and it keeps on chugging, doing everything I need and doing it well. It was a Pro machine for Pros, distinguished from the consumer line.

      Apple is now known for chintzy tricks like the touch bar and for hardware that can't be upgraded: all their hardware is now consumer-commodity grade, essentially disposable hardware with planned obsolescence. I don't need to shell out money for a new MacBook Pro that doesn't do anything I can't already do, that I can't upgrade, and that isn't a Pro machine.

      Until Mac returns to the ways that brought me to buy a MacBook Pro (and, wow, I love this old thing), I'm not buying a new one.

    4. Re:Lacking a Product Refresh? by GreatDrok · · Score: 1

      The question is what should they do for a refresh? They've been waiting for processors from Intel but it almost looks like the bad old days of the PPC at the moment with Intel dialling right back on improvements, I mean an i7 processor from five years ago is still a pretty good chip all things considered. Hard to sell new computers to people who don't need them and I know from my history of Macs that three years is far too short a time for me to get maximum value out of them. More like 6 in fact. My current laptop is two years old and I consider it virtually brand new and won't be looking to upgrade it for quite some time to come. Apart from bumping the RAM and putting in a new HDD to replace a failed one, all my Macs have been virtually sealed units so I don't mind the current state because with the lack of upgradability comes reliability. I've had problems with machines in the past where I needed to reseat the RAM to get it to behave, but that's not the case any more. Dead HDD? Built in SSD solves that and at 500GB it is plenty big enough when allied to external storage as needed. As for the design? Why mess with a classic just because a few years have gone by? I like that I can buy a new Mac and in a few years it will still look and generally act like a new Mac (a few minor cosmetic features may differ but overall it looks the same) and that may not excite people who constantly want new stuff but I like it. I certainly don't like PCs which change models frequently and become hard to maintain because the specific parts are no longer made for that model, and I don't like Windows which is a ghastly mess and doesn't know if it is a tablet or a desktop where at least the few things macOS has picked up from iOS are subtle and I don't really use them anyway. Maybe people are refreshing their PCs after holding off due to Windows 8 and finally accepting Windows 10, but for mac users who just got Sierra there's still no need to upgrade unless the machine is really old.

      --
      "I have the attention span of a strobe lit goldfish, please get to the point quickly!"
    5. Re:Lacking a Product Refresh? by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      Perfectly stated. Bravo!

    6. Re:Lacking a Product Refresh? by theskipper · · Score: 2

      New features+specs are nice and definitely drive a majority of sales. But don't forget they are forcing obsolescence by having non-upgradeable RAM and SSD in the latest machines. And that's not just requiring signed SSD drivers so you can't pop a cheaper Micron in it, SSD is now a soldered component. For anyone who cares about upgradability, you have to go (less than or equal to) early 2015 to get a machine with both non-soldered RAM and SSD. Those folks are pretty much shut out from purchasing a new machine because they're not the types to pay for the megapriced 16GB+1TB SSD.

      So one could argue 128GB fixed SSD and 8GB RAM is one way of forcing obsolescence on the lowest prices Macbook pros (btw not in terms of SSD wear, just purely outgrowing size/memory). Of course this isn't the majority of Macbook buyers and would just be a blip in sales. But any dent in average resale value down the road hurts the overall brand.

    7. Re:Lacking a Product Refresh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I mean an i7 processor from five years ago is still a pretty good chip all things considered

      Got a friend still running a six year old i5 (granted, it was _the_ i5 at the time) of mine, no problems other than with CPU-bound games.

      I'm personally running a mid '11 MacBook Air. I wouldn't Photoshop or game on it, but for everything else - including development and running the odd virtual machine or two - it's perfectly adequate for day to day use.

      The point where CPUs aren't "good enough" is ever narrowing. Intel's delays aren't here or there; Apple needs to come up with something other than "MOAR GIGAHURTZ!!!!!!!!!!"

    8. Re:Lacking a Product Refresh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In terms of unit sales, the desktops are essentially irrelevant. Collectively, all the desktops models combined make up no more than 20% of total unit sales, and maybe as low as 10%.

      Its the notebooks that hurt them. The MacBook is too expensive to be a volume product right now. The Air is the volume leader, but wasn't refreshed at all. The new MacBook Pro was released late in the year after a long delay, took even longer to ship in quantity.

    9. Re: Lacking a Product Refresh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck off, lickspittle.

    10. Re:Lacking a Product Refresh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wrong. Too many compromises.

    11. Re:Lacking a Product Refresh? by sandbagger · · Score: 1

      What business are you in that you use 'irrelevant' to describe 15 per cent (I'm averaging here) of your business AND the inventory that acts enables for the other 85?

      --
      ---- The above post was generated by the Turing Institute. Maybe.
    12. Re:Lacking a Product Refresh? by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      You mean slide down to the level of all the other vendors that are eating their lunch in terms of sales numbers despite being limited by all the same excuses you offered?

      Well, what are these machines that drive those numbers? And why aren't they eating their lunch as far as profits go? Hint: there is a connection between the two.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    13. Re:Lacking a Product Refresh? by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      Soldering RAM and SSD to the mobo is an instant "no-go" for a workstation for me.

      Errm, when you say "workstation", you actually mean notebook. You are aware of that fact? Because you a) mention the ""goofy function row display", and b) are obviously wrong if you meant the actual workstation.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    14. Re:Lacking a Product Refresh? by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      The point where CPUs aren't "good enough" is ever narrowing. Intel's delays aren't here or there; Apple needs to come up with something other than "MOAR GIGAHURTZ!!!!!!!!!!"

      That would be a fine point if Intel's CPUs finally supported low power DDR4 RAM like they promised 2 years ago. Until than people will complain about Apple not doing 32GB RAM in their notebook unlike others - ignoring that Apple's notebooks last easily 4 times longer on a battery than those notebooks supporting 32 GB RAM, while actually outperforming them on most tasks that supposedly "need" that much RAM.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
  5. Mac is dead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    except In the ghetto.

    1. Re:Mac is dead by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      except In the ghetto.

      And it's because of the Find My Mac feature that you can find out where in the ghetto your computer is.

  6. thats all? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    thats all.. ? i was hoping more.. 25% least... overpriced item..

  7. Id love to upgrade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But nothing inetersting has happened in a while. I actually downgraded to a 2011 late 13" because i could put in an ssd and upgrade the memory. All the new stuff is soldered to the motherboard.

    1. Re: Id love to upgrade by BLToday · · Score: 1

      The 2012 model of the MacBook Pro is probably the best upgrade path. You get USB 3 which makes a big difference over the USB 2 in the 2011 model. Hard drive is fully upgradable and recently I found myself needing to use the optical drive. RAM goes to 16 GB. As long as you don't leave the laptop on in a hot car, the battery should go to almost 1000 full cycle.

    2. Re:Id love to upgrade by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      But nothing inetersting has happened in a while. I actually downgraded to a 2011 late 13" because i could put in an ssd and upgrade the memory. All the new stuff is soldered to the motherboard.

      Why would you buy a older, slower machine so you could put in a slower SSD than the one in the newer machine?

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    3. Re: Id love to upgrade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But the lead free solder will decouple within 2 years an you will have an expensive paper weight

  8. I bought my last Apple product last year. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So all I wanted was 32gb of ram, but it had to be especially built. I waited 6 weeks.

    In reality, if I had looked it up, I would have found it was a simple process of opening a flap and inserting memory.

    That put me off, so I looked at Microsoft, and yes Windows 10 is good, the Furface family works for me, and he Surface Studio looks amazing.

    Nothing new or good from Apple in years. No reason to stick with Apple. They're done.

    1. Re:I bought my last Apple product last year. by DickBreath · · Score: 1

      Bu, bu, but . . . iPhone, iPhone, iPhone!

      Oh, wait. That has a minority share of the market. With Android you can buy any brand of phone. On any carrier. Any price range. Any feature set / price tradeoff that you prefer. Any color. So many colors, styles, features, prices, storage sizes, processor performance levels that it makes the iPhone look like the uniform droids marching over the cliff in Apple's 1984 commercial.

      Complain that Android isn't perfect. It isn't. Really. But it's where the momentum is. It's where the developers and apps are. It isn't standing still year over year with only minor tweaks.

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    2. Re:I bought my last Apple product last year. by avandesande · · Score: 2

      I quit shaving a few months ago, that's how I joined the Furface family.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    3. Re:I bought my last Apple product last year. by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      and he Surface Studio looks amazing.

      Yeah - it looks amazing. Sort of. But (unlike the iMac 27" and the Mac Pro) it has no user replaceable parts, and is limited to 32 GB RAM.

      It's one thing claiming that "PCs are better than Macs", but then choosing a PC that's provably worse is a really dumb move.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
  9. 30 bps by omnichad · · Score: 4, Informative

    Thanks summary and article for quoting "30 bps" seemingly without knowing what it means.

    Anyway, I looked it up. It is a financial term, not a bandwidth one.

    A basis point (often denoted as bp, often pronounced as "bip" or "beep") is one hundredth of a percent.

    I don't know how 30bps is easier to understand than 0.3% but there you have it.

    1. Re:30 bps by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      Thank you, I was wondering what that abbreviation was as well. Now I'm wondering which economist defined "basis point" to mean "a percent of a percent".

      Maybe it's a metric prefix we just didn't know about.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    2. Re:30 bps by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      For what it's worth, it was a quote from Bloomberg, which is a financial publication.

      The intended audience probably got along with the abbreviation and term just fine.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    3. Re:30 bps by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 2

      Thank you.

      I couldn't understand why they didn't just say "30 baud" instead of "30 bps".

      --
      http://www.geoffreylandis.com
    4. Re:30 bps by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Informative

      Thank you, I was wondering what that abbreviation was as well. Now I'm wondering which economist defined "basis point" to mean "a percent of a percent".

      "Basis point" is a finance term used by traders, not an economics term. Economists rarely use the term. Traders say "basis points" because they don't really understand percentages or fractions or other advanced math.

    5. Re:30 bps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LMGTFY:

      http://stackoverflow.com/questions/20534417/what-is-the-difference-between-baud-rate-and-bit-rate

      Literally the second hit when searching for "the difference between baud and bps".

    6. Re:30 bps by Solandri · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's probably due to financial markets being global, and the U.S. and most of Asia using the period as a decimal point and the comma as the thousands separator (e.g. 1,234.50), but most of Europe using the comma as a decimal point and the period as a thousands separator (1.234,50).

      A number like 12.345% is then ambiguous across the two systems. In the U.S. it would mean twelve and 345 thousandths of a percent. But in Europe it would mean twelve thousand three hundred forty five percent.

      If you just call hundredths of a percent a basis point, you avoid this problem. (A programming analogy would be assigning a unit to the smallest number you'll ever use, so that you can use ints instead of floats, thereby eliminating the risk of errors due to misplacing the decimal.)

    7. Re:30 bps by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      LMGTFY:

      http://stackoverflow.com/questions/20534417/what-is-the-difference-between-baud-rate-and-bit-rate

      Literally the second hit when searching for "the difference between baud and bps".

      Thank you for saving me from having to post that.

    8. Re:30 bps by omnichad · · Score: 1

      If your sales go down by more than 100% in a year, you have bigger problems than arguing decimal places.

    9. Re:30 bps by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Which the article barely acknowledged - without even a link to the source.

    10. Re:30 bps by DamonHD · · Score: 1

      I think it's much more to to with margins and spreads often being sub-1%, so talking about them in 'bips' is easier...

      Rgds

      Damon

      --
      http://m.earth.org.uk/
    11. Re:30 bps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      --WHOOSH--

    12. Re:30 bps by bws111 · · Score: 4, Informative

      It is to remove ambiguity, but not that one.

      If you have 12% market share, and your share goes up 2%, what does that mean? Is your new share 14% or 12.24%? On the other hand, if your 12% share goes up 200 bps, your new share is 14% - no ambiguity.

    13. Re:30 bps by bws111 · · Score: 1

      If you have a 12% share (or interest rate, or anything else expressed as a percentage), and it goes up 2%, what does that mean? Is your new share 14% or 12.24%? If your 12% share goes up 200 bps, your new share is 14%.

    14. Re:30 bps by avandesande · · Score: 1

      The points you buy for a mortgage are the same. The term is not nearly as archaic as you suggest.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    15. Re:30 bps by bws111 · · Score: 1

      They understand math just fine. They also understand ambiguity. What is the difference between 1% and 1.5%? 0.5%, 50%, or 67%? On the other hand, 50bps makes it perfectly clear to everyone who knows what basis points are.

    16. Re:30 bps by swillden · · Score: 1

      They understand math just fine. They also understand ambiguity. What is the difference between 1% and 1.5%? 0.5%, 50%, or 67%? On the other hand, 50bps makes it perfectly clear to everyone who knows what basis points are.

      And the percentage values are perfectly clear to everyone who knows what percentages are. What ambiguity are you talking about? I have no problem with basis points (though the name is odd), but percentage is a very well-defined and unambiguous concept.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    17. Re:30 bps by bws111 · · Score: 1

      It is common to be able to express a change in value in both additive and multiplicative terms. The price went up $2. The price went up 20%. It is obvious what the speaker means because for addition you use the name of the thing being counted (dollars), and for multiplication you don't use the name, you use percent.

      So what happens when the thing being counted is a percentage? If I say 'the market share went up 2%', am I referring to addition or multiplication? So they don't refer to the market share as 'percent', they refer to it as 'basis points'. Now there is no ambiguity.

    18. Re:30 bps by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      bps is a "wrong used" bandwidth unit, it means baud per second (which is wrong as baud/bd already includes the "per second part")
      Perhaps you should improve your google fu :D. You figured "bandwidth" but then concluded it is not a "bandwidth" unit ... instead of figuring it should be just bd/baud.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    19. Re:30 bps by omnichad · · Score: 1

      You do realize that the common usage of the word has changed, right (like much of the English language)? Words like broadband depend on that being the case. In fact, Wikipedia doesn't even mention baud.

      Unless you're using that term in a very narrow field of signal processing, that ship has sailed.

      Look up the etymology of words like awful, gay, and guy for further examples.

    20. Re:30 bps by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      Thank you, I was wondering what that abbreviation was as well. Now I'm wondering which economist defined "basis point" to mean "a percent of a percent".

      "Basis point" is a finance term used by traders, not an economics term. Economists rarely use the term. Traders say "basis points" because they don't really understand percentages or fractions or other advanced math.

      Errm, you are the one to talk, since you obviously don't get the point of the point. Because when most people say "a change of x%", they actually mean a change of x percentage points - IOW they want to talk about the absolute change of a share given in percentages, but actually state a wrong relative change. Traders don't get confused by using percentage points and basis points.

      Now one could argue if using "declining 30 bps" in this context was good - but saying "declining 0.3 pps" would have been just as confusing, "declining 0.3 percentage points" would have been much longer (and to half of the nitwits here just as confusing) - and saying "declining 0.3%" would have been plain wrong, even though the nitwits would have "understood". Well, the important thing to the nitwits is the "declined" part anyway - although "loosing" would be much more target group focused.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    21. Re: 30 bps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just a guess, but probably more for spoken communication. E.g., "Six bips," as opposed to "Zero point zero six percent."

  10. Linux desktops moment to shine? by mr.dreadful · · Score: 1

    Like some other MacBook Pro users, I'm really examining other options for the first time -- My next laptop will probably be a Dell XPS with Ubuntu, and this after decades (30+) of Mac use. If I was Canonical and Dell, I'd be marketing the shit out of Apple's... change of direction? I heard this morning that Apple wants to start making movies. It really does appear that Apple would prefer the more lucrative services markets then the poor return on hardware. I can't say I really blame them, but it really does feel to me like OS X has moved past its peak developers moment.

    1. Re:Linux desktops moment to shine? by omnichad · · Score: 1

      I heard this morning that Apple wants to start making movies

      I hope they're not going to try to edit those on a new Macbook "Pro"

    2. Re:Linux desktops moment to shine? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      after decades (30+) of Mac use.

      I call BS. 30 decades is three centuries, and Macs have only been around since 1984.

    3. Re:Linux desktops moment to shine? by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 0

      Like some other MacBook Pro users, I'm really examining other options for the first time -- My next laptop will probably be a Dell XPS with Ubuntu, and this after decades (30+) of Mac use. If I was Canonical and Dell, I'd be marketing the shit out of Apple's... change of direction? I heard this morning that Apple wants to start making movies. It really does appear that Apple would prefer the more lucrative services markets then the poor return on hardware. I can't say I really blame them, but it really does feel to me like OS X has moved past its peak developers moment.

      Enjoy your Hell and sad, buggy little OS.

    4. Re:Linux desktops moment to shine? by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      I heard this morning that Apple wants to start making movies

      I hope they're not going to try to edit those on a new Macbook "Pro"

      Why? I have heard it handles 4k (actually 5k!) video editing smooth as glass.

    5. Re:Linux desktops moment to shine? by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      after decades (30+) of Mac use.

      I call BS. 30 decades is three centuries, and Macs have only been around since 1984.

      You haven't seen my kerosene-powered Apple 1, have you?

    6. Re:Linux desktops moment to shine? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you "heard" that right. Thanks for spreading baseless rumors and opinions instead of FACTS.

    7. Re:Linux desktops moment to shine? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow those grapes sure are sour.

    8. Re: Linux desktops moment to shine? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Enjoy your rapid fade into obsolescence and obscurity.

    9. Re:Linux desktops moment to shine? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      I use Macs since 1987, bought my first own one 1992, ... and your math is quite flawed, if Macs are around since 1984, how should it be bullshit that the parent is using them since 30+ years?

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    10. Re:Linux desktops moment to shine? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whoosh!

    11. Re:Linux desktops moment to shine? by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      Well, "Linux" will not be showing up in any of these lists as they are about sellers of hardware.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    12. Re:Linux desktops moment to shine? by ruir · · Score: 1

      I have used it for a decade now, and influenced the buying of a LOT of Apples, as I was the IT director of an ISP
      Nevertheless, I am also in that boat. Will probably go for a Dell XPS or Lenovo X1 Carbon.
      Sadly, they are fucking Linux too with systemd, probably TrueOS or something FreeBSD based.

    13. Re:Linux desktops moment to shine? by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      So you "heard" that right. Thanks for spreading baseless rumors and opinions instead of FACTS.

      He "heard" it from people actually using it, instead of the FACTS from people who have never even seen one. IOW real facts instead of alternative FACTS.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
  11. When to buy a Mac by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 5, Interesting

    According to the MacRumors Buyer's Guide, only the MacBook Pro is a recommended buy, and that's one of the most panned Macs to ever come out. With sales of Apple Watches, iPads & iPhones tanking, they better have a boatload of new offerings in 2017 to turn things around, or they'll really be in trouble.

    --
    Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    1. Re:When to buy a Mac by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yup. I have a late 2013 MacBook Pro and our usual upgrade cycle is 3 years. Work would buy a new one, but I'm waiting until the next generation of CPUs so that I can get one with 32GB of RAM. There hasn't been a single compelling update to the MBP line since 2013 (Haswell).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    2. Re:When to buy a Mac by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Picked up a new MacBook Pro late 2016 to replace my 2010 version. Works very well, I have had zero issues and it crushes my old computer's specs. I suspect you either read bullshit websites or tech blogs with asshole 4chan wannabees.

      You gotta get off the internet and investigate things for yourself. Stop relying on what anyone else says - if they don't have an agenda or axe to grind, they are usually not very knowledgable and just repeating some ass fart they read somewhere else.

      But don't take my word for how good the new MacBook Pro is. Go look at one yourself. Use your fucking brain. If you didn't check it out for yourself or someone you trust and know very well didn't, then whatever you read on the internet is for shit.

    3. Re:When to buy a Mac by wafflemonger · · Score: 1

      That is more of a buy schedule. It just tells you how long it has been since the product was updated, and whether you should wait and not waste your money right then.

    4. Re:When to buy a Mac by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, just buy with the lowest amount of RAM and buy third-party. My knowledge only goes back to the 90s or so, but basically Apple has always overcharged for RAM.

    5. Re:When to buy a Mac by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (The point being that I had a Mac Pro with 32 GB -- I forget, maybe 64 GB as well? -- 6 or 7 years ago... I don't know if the current model will let you insert your own.)

    6. Re: When to buy a Mac by Toy+G · · Score: 4, Informative

      Ram has not been upgradeable aftermarket in any MBP released after 2011. In the latest models you cannot even swap the SSD drive; that's a slap in the face, it basically forces you to buy their AppleCare insurance as soon as warranty runs out (1 or 2 years depending on country). And if you want extra power bricks, you have to buy them AND power cables separately. That's taking "nickle & dime" to a new level.

      --
      -- Let's go Viridian.
    7. Re:When to buy a Mac by link-error · · Score: 3, Interesting

      They've started to solder the memory onto the motherboard, so you can't upgrade any longer.. I 'almost' switched to make about a year ago, and this kept me from crossing over. Now I just run Mint on a nice dell business laptop.

      --
      -Unresolved symbol? Byte me!
    8. Re:When to buy a Mac by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Nope, both RAM and SSD are soldered now so no upgrades at all.

    9. Re:When to buy a Mac by sandbagger · · Score: 2

      You know, you're absolutely right.

      I'm going to march right over to the Apple store and take a look at their latest full size towers.

      --
      ---- The above post was generated by the Turing Institute. Maybe.
    10. Re: When to buy a Mac by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      Or maybe they want more than 16GB of RAM. Crazy talk I know.

    11. Re: When to buy a Mac by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The MacBook Pro (13-inch, Mid 2012) is the last to let you upgrade RAM. I bought a new one in 2015 in a state of panic when I dropped my old laptop down a flight of stairs a week before my PhD defense. With an i5 and aftermarket 16GB of RAM & 1 TB SSD, it's the last Mac I'll ever buy. It's still snappy and does everything I want, but I really wish it was thinner and had fewer ports! /s

    12. Re:When to buy a Mac by dgatwood · · Score: 2

      Depends on whether your 2010 is still as-shipped or not. Stick a 1 TB SSD in that 2010, and the performance difference gets a lot smaller.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    13. Re:When to buy a Mac by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

      I'm on a 2011 MBP myself. The last one to have an actual genuine ethernet port.

      I upgraded the ram to 16GB, and the HDD to a 1TB SSD, and it's still motoring.

      I was hoping to replace it last fall, but after seeing the joke of a machine Apple released, I'm just going to have to keep waiting and hoping Tim Cook pulls his head out of his ass.

    14. Re: When to buy a Mac by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mine has an Ethernet port. But its only actual and not genuine... retard.

    15. Re:When to buy a Mac by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      The current (3 year old) Mac Pro can be user fitted with up to 128 GB RAM very easily.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    16. Re: When to buy a Mac by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      Or maybe they want more than 16GB of RAM. Crazy talk I know.

      Yup - https://www.zdziarski.com/blog...

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    17. Re: When to buy a Mac by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Says the fucking AC.

    18. Re:When to buy a Mac by tzanger · · Score: 1

      Not OP, but I did do this. I did go to an Apple store and check them out.

      * shit keyboard (almost like typing on glass)
      * lost my escape key to an idiotic touchbar I'll never use
      * my inverted-T arrow keys are kind of there, but in a shitty form
      * soldered-in SSD
      * no 11" option
      * no magsafe
      * not even ONE USB-A

      I get that the world's moving to USB-C and I'm happy for that, but not being able to plug in anything without a dongle is stupid. Losing magsafe for a USB-C which by some accounts loosens up rather quickly is a bad move. No way to swap out the SSD means these laptops have a very real and short lifetime for any kind of serious use.

      Oh well. I really liked their hardware, but won't be buying this latest offering. Hopefully Apple gets their head out their ass, fires or at least puts Jony back where he belongs and starts manufacturing machines that professionals do want to use. If I wanted an ultrathin, light use netbook, I'd spend $300, not $2000.

    19. Re:When to buy a Mac by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's insane the iMac isn't a recommended buy. Sure it's a year and half old, but it's also still amazing.

      And unit sales aren't everything, Apple's average sales price for a Mac is still around $1200 while PC vendors are cratering down to $500 levels. Apple is likely the largest PC vender in the world by revenues, and Mac sales are probably more profitable than all other PC venders combined.

    20. Re: When to buy a Mac by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I bought a new one in 2015 in a state of panic when I dropped my old laptop down a flight of stairs a week before my PhD defense.

      Congratulations for contributing one of the most useless and off-point details in this whole thread (state of panic, dropped laptop down stairs, PhD defense...) No offense, but we don't care.

    21. Re:When to buy a Mac by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Even if I could upgrade this one, it has the maximum amount of RAM that the memory controller supports, so removable RAM wouldn't help. It would make it cheaper to replace the RAM in the case of a fault, but I had a PowerBook go back in for repairs 7 times because the DIMM slots kept popping off the logic board slightly (just enough to cause data loss in RAM) when the machine got hot, so soldering the RAM to the board probably improves reliability there.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    22. Re:When to buy a Mac by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      people that buy apple stuff deserve it, for being faggots, and not in a sexual way, in a southpark episode kind of way

    23. Re: When to buy a Mac by VisceralLogic · · Score: 1

      Ram has not been upgradeable aftermarket in any MBP released after 2011

      That's interesting, because I upgraded the RAM in my 2012 MBP to 16 GB aftermarket.

      --
      Stop! Dremel time!
  12. self-inflicted category killer by epine · · Score: 4, Informative

    I tried to procure Mac Minis for a small office in angel-finance reboot mode—it was a blank slate for changing the mix—and Apple had neutered the quad-core mini with the expansion RAM slot so badly, we bought refurbed Windows 7 boxes instead.

    Worse machine, twice as much memory, half the price.

    One key executive who has cold feet about making the jump, and you're not going to risk a castrated revamp. So it goes.

    The New Mac mini is Quickly Turning into a Disaster

    It was soon revealed that Apple was using soldered RAM in the new Mac minis, an unfortunate development that meant that customers would no longer be able to upgrade their memory after purchase. Want the maximum 16GB of RAM for your new Mac? That'll be $300 extra at checkout ...

    Compounding the memory upgrade situation is the company's choice of CPUs. Yes, they're Haswell, but they're not as fast as their 2-plus-year-old Ivy Bridge predecessors. The old 2012 Mac mini lineup included options for both dual- and quad-core CPUs, but the new 2014 models are dual-core only, and the efficiency improvements in Haswell can't compensate for the loss of those two cores.

    I had 100% buy-in for the Apple solution, had we still been able to get the 2012 spec. Mac mini.

    My office mate had brought his own 2012-era Mini into the office and everyone loved it, which is how the option to jump ship from Microsoft entered the conversation in the first place.

    Then *bam* the anvil behind the velvet curtain when we specked out the crippled revamp.

    I can only imagine that Apple kind of wants to kill off the PC category altogether. Insufficient lock-in. Choice remains.

    1. Re:self-inflicted category killer by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I tried to procure Mac Minis for a small office in angel-finance reboot mode—it was a blank slate for changing the mix—and Apple had neutered the quad-core mini with the expansion RAM slot so badly, we bought refurbed Windows 7 boxes instead.

      Worse machine, twice as much memory, half the price.

      One key executive who has cold feet about making the jump, and you're not going to risk a castrated revamp. So it goes.

      The New Mac mini is Quickly Turning into a Disaster

      It was soon revealed that Apple was using soldered RAM in the new Mac minis, an unfortunate development that meant that customers would no longer be able to upgrade their memory after purchase. Want the maximum 16GB of RAM for your new Mac? That'll be $300 extra at checkout ...

      Compounding the memory upgrade situation is the company's choice of CPUs. Yes, they're Haswell, but they're not as fast as their 2-plus-year-old Ivy Bridge predecessors. The old 2012 Mac mini lineup included options for both dual- and quad-core CPUs, but the new 2014 models are dual-core only, and the efficiency improvements in Haswell can't compensate for the loss of those two cores.

      I had 100% buy-in for the Apple solution, had we still been able to get the 2012 spec. Mac mini.

      My office mate had brought his own 2012-era Mini into the office and everyone loved it, which is how the option to jump ship from Microsoft entered the conversation in the first place.

      Then *bam* the anvil behind the velvet curtain when we specked out the crippled revamp.

      I can only imagine that Apple kind of wants to kill off the PC category altogether. Insufficient lock-in. Choice remains.

      I honestly think that Apple was running into significant cooling issues with the Quad-Core mini. Now that there are quad-core Skylake's out that are MUCH lower-power, perhaps this year's (2017) minis will be quad again...

    2. Re:self-inflicted category killer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've had a quad core (i7) Mini since 2012. It's never had a problem cooling even with eight threads rendering in Modo. Fan ramps way the hell up, but it doesn't overheat. I think Apple crippled the mini to push people who need more cores to buy a Mac Pro instead. Apple's all about the upsell.

    3. Re:self-inflicted category killer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dell offered a desktop Pentium slim desktop for $250 a few years back. It seemed like it would have decent performance as a media player or home web server. It seemed a better deal than the Mac-Mini at the time. (I wish Dell would bring it back instead of those form factor Chromebox-style Windows computers. The new Pentiums are hyper-threaded and would kick ass.)

    4. Re:self-inflicted category killer by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      I've had a quad core (i7) Mini since 2012. It's never had a problem cooling even with eight threads rendering in Modo. Fan ramps way the hell up, but it doesn't overheat. I think Apple crippled the mini to push people who need more cores to buy a Mac Pro instead. Apple's all about the upsell.

      Yeah, that's logical. Someone who buys a $700 mini is absolutely an "upgrade candidate" for a $4000 Mac Pro.

  13. How Lee Iococca killed the US Auto industry. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Cars used to be expensive, and people wanted their cars to last. But once everyone who wanted a car had one, the car sales would grow only at the rate of population. Firestone Ford and Standard oil engaged in nearly illegal actions, buying bus lines and tram lines and closing them down etc. But still the end was inevitable. That is when Lee Iococca had the epiphany. "If we build crappy cars that died every five years, they will be forced to buy new cars!".

    He called it the "Planned Obsolescence". He argued, "If the planned life of a car is five years, it is a waste to design its components to last 10 years". So he deliberately got the cars built using less durable components. But statistics is a bitch. If the car had 100 components each with a design life of five years and they had 95% confidence level, you are likely to have at least 5 failures before 5 years. (Roughly speaking, I did not ace my stats class either).

    But US was on a roll so and all the car makers got on the bandwagon. But rest of the world wanted reliable and durable cars. Where cars were considered too valuable to be scrapped in three/five years, the market demanded better cars. The Japaneses served those markets using small econoboxes, something no American would even look at.

    Then came the oil shock! Americans tried the tiny Japanese econoboxes, for fuel economy. But fell in love with their durability. The difference between the reliability of Japanese and American cars were stark, plainly visible, no amount of marketing gimmicks could fix that. GM went from 60% of the world auto market in 1959 to less than 30% of just US auto market in 1990.

    So the lesson Apple might learn would be, "We should not be building our computers that last this long."

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:How Lee Iococca killed the US Auto industry. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Ironically, the planned obsolescence scheme would probably work well in Japan. Older cars there are subject to mandatory, expensive, inconvenient inspections that always find something wrong. It gives the auto industry a boost by encouraging people to buy a new car more often, instead of keeping one for a longer or buying used.

    2. Re:How Lee Iococca killed the US Auto industry. by swb · · Score: 1

      It's an interesting theory, but what point did American cars become unreliable due to planned obsolescence?

      The problem I have with this argument is that ALL cars were inherently unreliable through the basic components of them. I'm just barely old enough to remember when tuneups were totally mandatory -- changing the points in the distributor, checking the timing, frequent plug and wire replacements, fairly frequent carburetor adjustments and so on. That was every American car through the advent of fuel injection and electronic ignition, and I'm sure the transition period before they got those features right was an issue, too.

      The only crisis in reliability I can think of that wasn't outright tied to mechanical nature of their components was the 1970s when emissions requirements hit. Detroit had nothing but giant V8 engines and struggled to make them meet emissions, strangling them performance wise and slapping on emissions controls. I think this hurt reliability a lot.

      It was probably made worse by ham-handed attempts to address fuel economy through lighter materials, which in turn could have affected reliability -- making metal parts thinner and lighter has to hit some tolerance threshold where they just didn't wear well.

      I also remember Japanese cars in the 1970s not being entirely perfect, either, being prone to overheating and as bad or worse at corrosion as Detroit models.

    3. Re:How Lee Iococca killed the US Auto industry. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1
      First blame EPA and the government. Then the unions. Then claim it is not so cut and dry.

      Have you looked at Consumer Reports reliability ratings of American cars in the 80s and 90s? It is a runaway process. Volvos got a reputation for safety at that time. Safety conscious buyers went to Volvo. And the company decided to emphasize safety and invested in it. Japanese were looking to break into US market. The were attacking every sector. In auto sector they emphasized reliability. They will test them in road conditions in Japan and Singapore before introducing the engines and powertrains in USA.

      Sure Japanese cars too had breakdowns and failures and were less reliable than today's cars. But for the same model year Japanese cars were far far more reliable than American.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    4. Re:How Lee Iococca killed the US Auto industry. by dryeo · · Score: 1

      While it's true that the ignition on the old cars had to be babied, as long as you did that along with keeping the valve lash in specs and changed the oil regularly, those old Japanese cars would go until the body rusted away. And once you could swap in an electric ignition things got a lot better. Meanwhile at the same time American cars would need a new engine before 100,000 miles as well as shit like the brake lines being built out of such shitty metal that even my '96 Ford recently lost its brakes (as well as my '88 which had multiple brake line failures before I replaced all of them), something that never happened with my 30 yr old Datsuns.
      Another thing was working on the vehicles. The Japanese were much better laid out, especially the wiring compared to the nightmare of having to work on American vehicles. And as the sibling post says, once pollution controls came in, the American cars actually got worse.
      When I moved to an American vehicle, it was just a constant nightmare of "how the hell could someone engineer this"? People like to blame the unions, but I really doubt that they were designing the vehicles and making the decisions on what type of metal to use for the engine block, brake lines, gas tanks that rusted out and so on.
      Whether it was a conscience decision or just the usual shitty American engineering due to complacency I can't say. I do remember the story of the American auto manufacturer outsourcing some parts and the Japanese not understanding why they wanted a 5 or 10% failure rate.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    5. Re:How Lee Iococca killed the US Auto industry. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only problem with the Japanese cars was when you did need to work on them, if you had Anglo or Black mans hands, it was impossible. I changed an ignition switch in a Datsun and a Mazda and you had to have tiny Nippon hands or a girlfriend reach in and connect the wires.

    6. Re:How Lee Iococca killed the US Auto industry. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I heartily disagree. As a decades long Mac user (and linux, and windows) I started with an Apple ][ Integer Basic machine and now my main machine is now a 2009 Macbook Pro 17". The hard disk is dying and it is very heavy to lug around. Why haven't I bought a new Mac or at least upgraded its OS?

      First, I want it to be more reliable, not less reliable. I have held back a number of times from buying new Macs because I was dissatisfied:
      - Experience with lots of problems upgrading various Macs to next OS scared me away, even though this meant I could not install the new developer environments. This led be to stay on Android and not by an iPhone either.
      - Ports, memory, power in general
      - Feeling that Apple skewed the entire company to music and phones, which may be where the money is but not what I want.
      - Lackluster or bad reviews
      - Waiting for the next good pro model to appear
      - Almost snapped up a new macbook last year because they were so cute, but they felt quite laggy! WTF?
      - Even now, I will probably buy the best macbook pro available this month because I can't stand it anymore, but would really like to wait for more memory (both ram and graphic) if I knew it would come out say a month later. Lack of transparency that pro users / developers need to make decisions.
      - No upgradability in general
      - Lack of awesomeness like where are my fpgas huge number of cores, and in general cool things available from other manufacturers or even what other companies don't have yet? The phone shop on the corner has an ipad pro poster that says it's a supercomputer. Really? I haven't felt empowered by Apple not for a long time.
      - Lack of enthusiasm among pro users, developers
      - If I felt comfortable with Apple providing quality re the above points, I would undoubtedly also buy a non-laptop mac, iPhone, and develop for iPhone.
      Basically this is the first time I have seriously thought of buying windows machine of my own, even though I use one at work.

    7. Re: How Lee Iococca killed the US Auto industry. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm 41. To this day I will never buy an American car. They are shit. My late teens I owned 4-5 American vehicles. 1975 international scout, 84 ford pickup , late 70 dodge, 1976 Dodge Ram power wagon, chevy 80's something and a few others. The older trucks seemed ok. Us cars were shit. Today, I am still afraid to buy a us car let it leave me stranded on the side of the road.

    8. Re:How Lee Iococca killed the US Auto industry. by Archimonde · · Score: 1

      From what I've seen, they are selling those older cars to the region around. So it is better to have a reliable car you can sell later for ok price then unreliable car which you can sell for next to nothing right?

      --
      Trolls are like broken clocks. They show the truth two times a day. The rest of the day they talk nonsense.
    9. Re: How Lee Iococca killed the US Auto industry. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are no 30 year old Datsuns.

    10. Re:How Lee Iococca killed the US Auto industry. by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      - Feeling that Apple skewed the entire company to music and phones, which may be where the money is but not what I want.

      http://www.asymco.com/2016/11/02/wherefore-art-thou-macintosh/

      Apple reached a top five position in the ranking of PC vendors. This was achieved for the first time only this year, far along in the evolution of the market.

      With about $23 billion in revenues per year, Apple places among the top four PC vendors in terms of revenue.

      With an estimated $5.5 billion in operating margin Apple is the most profitable PC vendor, capturing over 60% of the available PC hardware profits. The product has retained an average selling price of over $1200 for at least a decade. At the same time the average pricing of Personal Computers has more than halved.

      Although volumes have fallen for three quarters, the product grew volumes and sales for 22 out of 29 quarters. As a result, volumes almost doubled in eight years.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    11. Re: How Lee Iococca killed the US Auto industry. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1

      There are not thirty year old Nissans/ All existing Datsuns are more than 30 years old.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    12. Re:How Lee Iococca killed the US Auto industry. by ruir · · Score: 1

      Windows? Bah,...a Dell XPS or a Lenovo X1 Carbon with Mint, or even better, TrueOS.

    13. Re: How Lee Iococca killed the US Auto industry. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not that it matters, but Nissan revived the Datsun badge in 2013 in certain countries.

      I think OP was saying the Datsuns he had were 30 years old at the time...

  14. That is so weird... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Sean Spicer just said that Apple had "sold more Macs last year than ever before".

    1. Re:That is so weird... by sandbagger · · Score: 1

      >Sean Spicer just said that Apple had "sold more Macs last year than ever before".

      It's an 'alternative fact'.

      --
      ---- The above post was generated by the Turing Institute. Maybe.
  15. Netcraft confirms it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Macintosh is dying. You can't even run a decent beowulf cluster on them anymore. No one ever got fired for buying Microsoft.

    1. Re:Netcraft confirms it by thebullshitpatrol · · Score: 1

      >No one ever got fired for buying Microsoft.

      Which situations are you put in where you are assigned to buy computers without concern for support/interoperability?

      If someone works in an all Mac shop and are assigned to buy new computers, could you say "no one ever got fired for buying Apple"?

  16. The silliest part is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    If Intel wasn't intentionally hobbling their hardware, they could be producing low power chips with QPI that would allow scaling out to 64 cores or more in the power profile of their current workstation boards, before including options like Xeon Phi compute modules on-board as well.

    They would just need to use the lowest functional binned chips for a new SKU that they could price competitively for the high consumer/prosumer line and/or offer them exclusively through apple's hardware channels.

    But instead they just keep rehashing the same chips for going on 8 years now, rather than offering customers either something NEW, or something featuring tech normally above their budget.

    Instead we get crap like Skylake etc where the only new features are bad for the customer, and the performance difference isn't high enough to warrant it for any but those who have to own the latest and greatest regardless of cost or sensitbility.

    1. Re:The silliest part is... by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      If Intel wasn't intentionally hobbling their hardware, they could be producing low power chips with QPI that would allow scaling out to 64 cores or more in the power profile of their current workstation boards, before including options like Xeon Phi compute modules on-board as well.

      They would just need to use the lowest functional binned chips for a new SKU that they could price competitively for the high consumer/prosumer line and/or offer them exclusively through apple's hardware channels.

      But instead they just keep rehashing the same chips for going on 8 years now, rather than offering customers either something NEW, or something featuring tech normally above their budget.

      Instead we get crap like Skylake etc where the only new features are bad for the customer, and the performance difference isn't high enough to warrant it for any but those who have to own the latest and greatest regardless of cost or sensitbility.

      That is it, exactly.

      Apple needs to get into the CPU business.

    2. Re:The silliest part is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL ya right.

    3. Re:The silliest part is... by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      Mac mini 2017, with two quad-core A12 CPUs.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
  17. Apple's Missteps by FellowConspirator · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Apple has made a lot of missteps in the past few years, ostensibly in the name of innovation, without really considering how their products are used and the role bits and pieces of their product line reinforce the brand. Particularly Mac fans have felt it, and now it's hitting home.

    Regressions in software, elimination of Apple tools that add value to their platform, allowing hardware to go stale yet designing them to not be modifiable, going style over ergonomics, etc. Jobs had a knack for ignoring the user but delivering something he could make the user feel that they wanted. The current Apple doesn't have that. When they drop the ball on something, they take a ding.

    They are also taking far too many cues from Google that are producing terrible (worse, anyway) UIs and UXs. Their products are slowing becoming more awkward and less consistent and coherent. These are minor things, but they add up.

    1. Re:Apple's Missteps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I suspect Steve Jobs was personally using Apple products.
      Often, I wonder if the new leadership does. For example, is the "patented" (i.e. no 3rd party options) power block convenient when traveling in airplanes? In private jets only...

    2. Re:Apple's Missteps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >...allowing hardware to go stale yet designing them to not be modifiable...

      BINGO!
      Hardware comes out of the oven and onto the shelves hot & fresh. Their products, (at least the brand name), would not go stale if things were modifiable. As it stands you get an expensive and hot product for just a little while. And how long are people going to be 'repeat buyers' when they catch onto the game?

      So everyone's proposal is to RETURN to modifiable units that are so user friendly that people will heart Apple again. Yes, upgrading individual units may to cut into future individual sales but remember, many people will not upgrade they'll just buy new anyways... and the people who do upgrade will be more loyal to the Apple brand and buy another in a few years.

      By MAKING people unable to upgrade, yes it gives Apple a dollar today, but cancels many future purchases through its non-goodwill.

  18. Gaming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Meanwhile, console gaming is also sliding a lot, and PC gaming seems to be on a bit of an uptick at least partially thanks to VR... So yeah.

  19. On the upside, dongle sales are up 15% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is attributable to the "courage" of making a computer that lacks ports that people actually use.

  20. Non-power users do not have to upgrade macs often by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My macs are about 4 years old each. They work just fine and there is absolutely no need to upgrade them. Somebody who does heavy development or major graphic design work may disagree. But for a regular user, Mac can last a long time. It is a great product.

  21. That's what happens when you're offering 1 product by sandbagger · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Apple has simplified their product parts bin so that everything is using laptop parts designed for their thinness at all costs product goals. This means even their desktop units are constrained by the same thermal throttling that kicks when put under load.

    It's compounded by them taking forever to update their product line, some of which is outside their control. However, the RAM constraints put on them by their CPU constraints are a self-inflicted wound when it comes to their desktop products. In this sense, they're only offering one product -- old laptop parts -- just in different cases, including the Mini and the iMac.

    I understand that simplifying their parts bin does make some things easier but please stop trying to sell me an economy car when I want an 18-Wheeler.

    Where is my Mac Pro Tower with dual ethernet and room for six internal volumes? The Mac Pro was the Empire Strikes Back of cases. Will we ever see its like again? If people like us have noticed the lack of a full ecosystem of hardware from Apple, what do you expect us to recommend to our businesses, family and friends?

    Oh, and as an aside, they really, really need to be taken to task on their irreparable computers. Want to extend the device's lifecycle by swapping the HD, adding ram or upgrading the internals? Screw you buy a new machine and throw out the old one! Apple should be given a medal by the landfill owner's association.

    --
    ---- The above post was generated by the Turing Institute. Maybe.
  22. Intel should of put QPI in all cpu's / chipset by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    Intel should of put QPI in all cpu's / use if for the link to the chipset.

    1 socket cpu's with QPI don't make use of it just the slow DMI link.

    But apple can do better if they where to drop being supper thin.

  23. Apple doesn't care by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I hate to say it, but Tim Cook is just destroying Apple. At the Apple store in our mall now, they have just two tables devoted to MacBooks. On the walls, they have a Mac Mini, a tower, and a couple of iMacs. It's obvious that it's simply not something they're pushing hard. The extra tables that had MacBooks on them last year now have phones and tablets. And Apple TVs - they're pushing those hard. They are showing less than half the Macs that they were showing a year ago. To put it into perspective, the Best Buy has nearly as many MacBooks on display as the Apple store.

    Now, you could say they're responding to lowered demand, but they really need to get their shit together. The proper response is to figure out why the demand is lower (hint: no significant upgrades since Jobs died 5 years ago) and fix it. It's really not that difficult for them to maintain their market position, it's amazing that they could screw it up this badly.

    1. Re:Apple doesn't care by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That speaks to their profit margins. They can compel you to buy a new phone every couple of years, but who wants to have to buy a new PC every couple of years? These days, they are a phone and tablet company first, and being a computer company is a distant second.

    2. Re:Apple doesn't care by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      The market is changing though, and with the phone and tablet, Apple capitalizes on that change.

      Don't agree with the strategy, but it makes business sense.

    3. Re:Apple doesn't care by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 2

      The market is changing though, and with the phone and tablet, Apple capitalizes on that change.

      Don't agree with the strategy, but it makes business sense.

      I don't buy it. iPhone sales aren't up, and I'm pretty sure tablet sales plateaued a few years ago. The Apple Watch was pretty much DOA, and they give it a table in the store. They really just need to get their shit together, upgrade the macs and macbooks, and start marketing them again. Again, I have no idea how they can botch this so badly. I don't expect them to come out with another iPhone-type success, but it shouldn't be that difficult to maintain standard upgrade paths for the few products that they have.

    4. Re:Apple doesn't care by avandesande · · Score: 1

      Maybe you like your iphone and are curious about their computers now?

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    5. Re:Apple doesn't care by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple Cites 'Courage' As Reason To Remove 3.5mm Headphone Jack

      It takes talent to screw it up this badly.

    6. Re:Apple doesn't care by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hate to say it, but Tim Cook is just destroying Apple.

      Apple is doing great. They just aren't the computer company you fell in love with. They are a cell phone company. Cell phone net is seven times bigger than computer net. Even the iPad brings in as much money as all the computers.

      Everything you say completely ignores this. Apple is doing fine. The Macintosh isn't.

    7. Re:Apple doesn't care by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      The Mac platform at its peak was what, 12 million units per year at an ASP around $1200 and gross margins of around 35%, or about $5B in gross margins per year, compared to the iPhone with ~200 million units, $645 ASP, and 50% margins at $65B gross margins.

      I am all for not killing the goose that lays the golden egg... just not sure that Tim Cook's Apple sees the Mac as the goose, which might go down in Apple's history as a mistake.

    8. Re:Apple doesn't care by antdude · · Score: 1

      Bring back Steve Jobs to fix Apple. Oh wait. :(

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    9. Re:Apple doesn't care by mjwx · · Score: 1

      I hate to say it, but Tim Cook is just destroying Apple. At the Apple store in our mall now, they have just two tables devoted to MacBooks.

      Apple stores exist for people who dont want to think about their purchases. They are for people who want to be shown what to buy. The first step for this is to limit what is available as not to confuse them.

      Apple products have long since become the Toyota Camry of their respective markets. The Toyota Camry is pretty much the Dane Cook of cars. Sure there's nothing wrong with it, but there's also nothing right about it. A Camry is reliable, comfortable, reasonably efficient, well priced but it wont ever give you the fizz, it's not a performer, not a looker, it doesn't even have quirks. Its a bland car in every single way, it wont even break down to interrupt the monotony of owning one, which is why they appeal to people who dont want to have to think about the car they buy and own. You really dont have to have two brain cells to own a Toyota Camry, in fact, having them is a hindrance to Camry ownership.

      The similarities between the Toyota Camry and Apple products are obvious and numerous. They're both white, both unremarkable against the competition and both owned by beige people who dont think about what they buy.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    10. Re:Apple doesn't care by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Macintosh is still probably the largest (by revenues) and clearly the most profitable PC Vendor in the world. Over $20B a year in revenues isn't something to just forget about.

    11. Re:Apple doesn't care by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since Jobs died, Apple has more than doubled revenues and released

      1) Retina iMacs - Releasing a superb 5K all-in-one at roughly the same price Dell was selling just a 5K monitor at.
      2) TrashCan Mac Pro - Fresh, great design and approach.
      3) Apple Watch - Did over $6B in revenues in it's first year which is likely more than any watch in history, and likely more units than all other smartwatches combined.
      4) New MacBooks with touch-bar, finally.
      5) A giant iPad.
      6) Much bigger iPhones.
      7) Really awesome disappearing wireless headphones.

      Obviously the missing component is timely updates, the trash can is super dated now, and the iMac becoming so. The Watch has been updated often and well though, I appreciate how much better mine has gotten.

      So Tim's results have been excellent, even if we are nervous about the underlying trends. I'll cut him some breaks based on the following things.

      1) The volume of MacBooks they now sell means they are targeting specific Intel processors to have the volume/features they need (specific GPU support for retina). When Intel misses, and it's done that a lot recently, Apple can have all the great designs they want but they can't ship them without being back-ordered for many months. My theory is that this round of MacBooks was supposed to be out a year ago, but had to be held back and they didn't have any interim designs with upgraded CPUs/etc ready to fill the gap.

      2) The Mac Pro is just too small a business for them to care, which sucks. They probably should have kept the old packaging so they could update more often without such a big investment. Still doesn't explain why they don't refresh with new CPUs./GPUs.

      But even these excuses just point to poor planning. You have a $24B a year business that's the most profitable PC maker on the planet, it should have contingency designs to ensure you can freshen lineups yearly while you are waiting on Intel. It should have a constantly refreshed high end computer so customers don't grow out of your mainstream lineups.

  24. Re:Intel should of put QPI in all cpu's / chipset by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Should have.

  25. Heh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ASUS is a load of bollocks. God forbid you EVER have to deal with their warranty/RMA procedure. Highly unprofessional & untimely. Had a P5N mobo few years back that arrived DOA, initiated the RMA procedure, I made a tiny tiny little scratchmark on the motherboard so I could identify whether board was repaired or replaced.
    SIX WEEKS LATER they sent a "new" motherboard to me, but guess what? It was the exact same motherboard with the tiny little marking I had made. Obviously, it did not work. Second time round they took ANOTHER 6 WEEKS to get a replacement board to me. At this point I'd had enough and bought a GIGABYTE board instead.
    So while technically ASUS may make enthusiast motherboards, just hope that you never ever have to deal with their RMA dept. Absolutely disgusting.
    In comparison, in the past I've done an RMA with Intel aswell, turnaround time was 48 hours, extremely professional and excellent communication, clearly something ASUS needs to pick up on. Don't care what ASUS releases in the future, I'll never ever buy any of their products again, don't care even if 99% off.

  26. Jobs vs Cook by dschnur · · Score: 1

    Steve Jobs = Imagine what the user actually wants.
    Tim Cook = Imagine what the user actually wants to look like.

    Apple:
    There is always a balance between form and function.
    You cannot choose one over the other.

    Anodizing an under-powered micro laptop in pretty colors is cool, but pointless.
    Anodizing a bleeding edge micro laptop with features (think more than size) that no other has (in pretty colors) is cool and to the point.

    The value I expect to receive for my dollar is much more than what I see, it's what's under the hood that lets me work more efficiently and make that dollar work for me.

    Remember the old adage: Looks Fade.

      -D

  27. Re:I'd love to upgrade by CMECC · · Score: 1

    I have been waiting to upgrade, too, but Apple has continued their pursuit of thinness while abandoning the "Pro" market -- specifically professionals using Macs for computing rather than as a fashion accessory. The value and longevity of Macs has decreased significantly from Apple's neglect of both their laptop and desktop product lines.

    While most Mac owners won't need to upgrade RAM or disk, I have done so on every Mac I've owned. I don't care about thinness or weight as much as function, compute power, and storage. I have nearly no reason to buy a computer with a slow CPU, small screen, or small SSD, yet Apple relentlessly offers non-Pro computer specs lately.

    Phone and tablet revenue have so eclipsed computer revenue that Apple is financially allowed to offer dismal upgrades without recourse. I can only hope their recent Mac sales declines will be analyzed as Apple's own fault, as there are tons of folks desiring to upgrade to a more powerful Mac product.

  28. Timmy's Final Solution Rolls On by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

    Timmy's hatred for computers and Steve Jobs are legendary. The decline of the Mac lines which have been preceded by the reductions in hardware capability and operating system capability are the plan to kill-off the Mac, iPod and iTunes. Back in the day, iPod and iTunes saved the Mac after their introduction.

    Timmy's and Apple's next master-plan piece of innovation will be a the "Apple Tickle" a lesbian masturbation device tethered by blue-tooth and wifi to allow two or more lesbians to masturbate (the device is inserted into the vagina and controlled by iPhone) while playing masturbation games, in their home, on a bus, in a shopping mall or in their cars as such.

    1. Re:Timmy's Final Solution Rolls On by Hawks · · Score: 2

      Timmy's hatred for computers and Steve Jobs are legendary. The decline of the Mac lines which have been preceded by the reductions in hardware capability and operating system capability are the plan to kill-off the Mac, iPod and iTunes. Back in the day, iPod and iTunes saved the Mac after their introduction.

      Timmy's and Apple's next master-plan piece of innovation will be a the "Apple Tickle" a lesbian masturbation device tethered by blue-tooth and wifi to allow two or more lesbians to masturbate (the device is inserted into the vagina and controlled by iPhone) while playing masturbation games, in their home, on a bus, in a shopping mall or in their cars as such.

      Apple with just "Partner" with Lovense like they did with LG. Slap an Apple logo on one end and everybody is happy.

      --
      in anima Apparatus
    2. Re:Timmy's Final Solution Rolls On by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      All german speakings should visit the parents linked site, the "german translation" is so hilarious!

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  29. Furface by tepples · · Score: 1

    yes Windows 10 is good, the Furface family works for me

    Has Microsoft been advertising its tablets to fans of fictional talking animals or something?

  30. No pro equipment. by nbritton · · Score: 1

    When you make a product that people don't want what do you expect? If Apple would listen to their professional customers and build products that they want then you would not be seeing this. The professionals are the group that drove adoption of the consumer products, don't forget that. As a IT specialist, people ask me all the time what to get and they usually get what I tell them to, so be cognizant of the consequence of pissing of your professional users because they are the group of people recommending your products to others. Word of mouth advertising is worth it's weight in gold.

  31. Took them too long to update by ukoda · · Score: 1

    When I brought my MBA 13" back in 2013 I was happy to have a quality device that was portable but ran Linux ok (except the camera). The screen was low res but there was nothing on the market that looked close and was known to run Linux ok. Fast forward a few years and the screen was getting really annoying and I came to realise that fancy aluminum case was probably the reason for poor WiFi performance.

    Last year I notice the Dell XPS13 DE and it made my MBA look crap. There was no sign of a better Mac on the horizon. The Dell was physically smaller than the MBA but had a physically bigger display and higher res. Add full support for Linux out of the box and it was a no brainer. As much as I like my MBA the Dell is a far better machine.

    Apple really need to take the laptop feature update cycles seriously of they want to retain market share, but it is going to be a few years before I look at them again.

  32. May the cult die out quickly by PeteVine · · Score: 0

    Hopefully, followed by Rust.

  33. Re:That's what happens when you're offering 1 prod by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

    Apple has simplified their product parts bin so that everything is using laptop parts designed for their thinness at all costs product goals. This means even their desktop units are constrained by the same thermal throttling that kicks when put under load.

    That was REALLY true with the 2015 MacBook Pros; but isn't at ALL a problem with the 2016 MacBook Pros. That is one of the biggest reasons why the 2016 MBPs are actually MUCH faster than the 2015's, even though the CPU is slightly slower at max. speed.

    Of the 2015 MBP:

    "Once we had noticed some occasional GPU throttling, it is hardly surprising that the losses in the stress test are even more dramatic. After our one-hour stress test with Prime95 and FurMark (Windows), the CPU runs at only1.2 GHz, while the graphics card is also limited to just 400 MHz. Even though devices from Asus, Acer & Co. also throttle, none of the direct rivals loses that much performance. "

    Vs. the 2016 MBP, the same publication said:

    "The analysis of our initial benchmarks shows that the new MacBook Pro is on par with the replaced MBP with a Haswell i7-4870HQ CPU in the Cinebench R15 Single test, while it is 12% faster in the Multi-Core Rendering test. All in all, the results are within the expected range of all tested 6700HQ processors. Cinebench R15 Multi clearly shows the advantage over the current Apple MacBook 13: +115%.

    The MacBook Pro 15 is a little bit slower than the previous model in the PCMark benchmark test (Bootcamp Windows). It is on par with other powerful multimedia notebooks like the Dell XPS 15 9550, Asus N552VX or the ZenBook UX510, for example.
    [...]
    We could not determine throttling of the GPU performance in the Unigine Valley benchmark. The GPU reaches a decent temperature of 70 C and even managed a slightly higher score once the system was warmed up.
    [...]
    The sensors show much higher values for the internal temperatures. The GPU reaches uncritical 70 C in Unigine Valley, but the CPU will level off at 91 C in Cinebench R15. The scores do not collapse in macOS though, so there should not be any problems with throttling."


    So, it seems like the combination of the lower-power Skylake, and Apple's improved Thermal Management has created a laptop that is significantly faster OVERALL (and especially at long-term CPU and/or GPU-intensive tasks, like video editing) than its predecessor.

  34. The MacBook Air is the best laptop ever. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Please make it possible to order a premium Macbook Air 11 inch, same body and ports, just 16GB or 32GB of memory and 1TB or 2GB SSD.

    It is the ideal workhorse for traveling and day to day work. I don't need a better screen or touchbar because I connect it to an external screen, ergonomic keyboard and mouse anyways if I am at home or at the office.

    The only other nice to have is to update the DisplayPort to support dual 4K monitors. I am still using a maxed out Core i7 from early 2014 but often hit the memory limits. My next machine will be an Hackingtosh or running Linux if Apple does not provide an upgrade path.

  35. Re:That's what happens when you're offering 1 prod by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Great. Fantastic. Now reply to the originating post.

    The iMac and Mac Mini are laptops being sold as desktops instead of being engineered to be what they are —desktop products.

  36. They need a 13 Inch Quad Core Laptop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I went to buy a new Mac laptop last year. I needed a quad core machine in a 13 inch form factor. But Apple, in all of their post Steve Jobs buffoonery failed to make a product to meet my needs. So I got a Thinkpad and put Linux on it. I really wanted a new Mac, but now, I'm not likely to buy another Mac again.

  37. I don't know why... by fyngyrz · · Score: 2

    I can't understand why people keep saying Mac sales are dead or dying.

    Just in the last week, I bought a 64GB, 3GHz, triple one-terabyte drive, 12/24 core Mac Pro with a graphics card that will more than do what I need. Beautiful tall thing, truly awesome case design, lots of ports, three open card slots, expandable, physically secure, latest MacOS installed.

    For ~$1500.00, with free shipping and 30 days return privileges to make sure it arrives safely and works as specified.

    I bought it at what has become my absolute favorite Mac store, EBay.

    Looks to me like Mac sales are doing awesome.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    1. Re:I don't know why... by sconeu · · Score: 1

      Parent is a perfect example of Poe's Law.

      Honestly, I can't tell if he's serious or snarky.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    2. Re:I don't know why... by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      Parent is a perfect example of Poe's Law.

      Thank you. :)

      Honestly, I can't tell if he's serious or snarky.

      Let me help you out. The answer is, "Yes."

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    3. Re:I don't know why... by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 1

      The key phrase is this:

      I bought it at what has become my absolute favorite Mac store, EBay.

      In other words, somebody was dumping their old Mac Pro and he picked it up for a song.

    4. Re:I don't know why... by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

      It's probably legitimate. I myself have been looking to refurbs and used units when I need to buy a machine, cause the currently available products Apple sells is either outdated, overpriced, or both.

    5. Re:I don't know why... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Awww. You should have at least warned us with a Spoiler Alert.

  38. Hm. Well, actually, there is some shit. by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

    many Mac owners are waking up to the fact that they can get a PC with better specs than a Mac at less than 1/3 the cost.

    Unfortunately, no MacOS, and no Mac apps.

    So it doesn't matter what hardware we can get.

    I have no doubt at all Apple is so far behind in hardware design because they are really busy, you know, doing critically important work like removing earphone jacks and function keys and user-upgrade-capable features like RAM and drives and network ports and batteries and card slots and drive bays. That has got to be some challenging engineering!

    But the fact remains, we buy your fabulous hardware -- and I'm totally giving you the benefit of the doubt there, certainly we could buy newer hardware just as you describe, likely less expensive just as you said, plus all manner of fabulous I/O and bays and slots -- and we still can't legally, or even reliably, run any of our software. Hackintoshes are not a good solution at all.

    Which makes the fabulous new hardware exactly as useful as a boat anchor, minus the ability to really get a hook on the bottom.

    What a lot of people who rant about price and performance just don't seem to get is that people buy computers primarily to run software on them and connect them to things that the computer can control and otherwise add value to, or vice-versa, inevitably using said software. If a particular computer won't run the software, you can describe how fabulous it is and the huge price advantage(s) until your vocal cords fail you, and it will do you not a bit of good.

    Me, I just shop EBay. I paid $1500 for a 12/24 core, 3x 1-terabyte drive, ~3GHz Mac Pro just last week. It's not the latest thing, but on the other hand, it's still pretty quick, and in terms of resources and ports, it's great. The actual price/performance... outstanding.

    Apple made nothing off that deal. But they deserve that in my view as they tried to foist that trashcan thing off on me. Could have had my money with just a proper tower design. Instead, they sent me to EBay. Clearly, I'm just not sophisticated enough to understand their marketing plan, that's all. [waves in California's general direction]

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    1. Re:Hm. Well, actually, there is some shit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your being a bit harsh there. apple has made some innovative advancements in the field of dongle technology in the past few years.

    2. Re:Hm. Well, actually, there is some shit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      dung technology or dick technology? Ask Tim Cock

    3. Re: Hm. Well, actually, there is some shit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its Mr Tim Cocksucker to you. Or pole smoker, doughnut puncher, shitty dick, feces breath, poo tongue, semen teeth, ass licker, stink fingers. ... it's not sanitary what ever it is.

  39. I *know* Apple doesn't care by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

    If they give up on Macs, maybe they will simply start supporting MacOS to work on non-Apple PC's.

    Honestly, as a MacOS user, I would welcome that day.

    They sure as hell haven't shown they are able to make cutting edge products. Just (cough) "courageous" ones.

    It'd be killer to be able to set up a legit MacOS system with the latest innards.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  40. No... not really that true .... by King_TJ · · Score: 1

    I mean, jellomizer might be absolutely correct in his estimation that his "over 5 year old" laptop is still good enough for him to keep using it.

    But in the overall sense, I don't think you can explain this drop in computer sales (especially the fact that Apple is now seeing 2x the decline of the rest of the industry) on the general fact that an older machine is still usable for a lot of folks.

    There has ALWAYS been a subset of computer users who have no reason to upgrade to the latest and greatest. Their only true motivation for a new computer is when the old one just quits working. That should already be reflected in the sales figures, year over year, and be pretty predictable.

    I think it's been a pretty good rule of thumb for as long as I can remember working with computers that 3 years is a good length of time to hang onto a machine before upgrading, if you want to stay current, still get some resale value out of what you have, and still maximize how much use you got out of what you purchased. If you think about it? You can do a whole heck of a lot with a computer in 3 years' time. Certainly, you can do enough with it by then to justify every penny you paid for it. I mean, even if you only used an inexpensive PC to do your Federal taxes for 3 years in a row - that alone could cost-justify it vs. paying a tax prep. service instead.

    Whenever I've tried to hold onto an older machine for as long as 5 years, I found it had diminishing returns. I'd reach the point where it was limiting me in some way or another -- even if it was just compromising by using lower graphics settings in the newer games I wanted to play on it, or adding on external hard drive storage to compensate for it not having enough inside it. When you stretch things out that long, technology has typically advanced by several iterations on practically everything in the computer. Processors have evolved, as have video chipsets -- but also, the whole bus architecture has likely changed. Computers that are 5 years old now are going to have much older versions of Bluetooth (if they have it at all), older wi-fi standards, and no USB 3.0 support (only 2.0 or 1.1). Quite likely, they only have 100mbit wired ethernet on-board instead of gigabit. If it uses a spinning disk instead of an SSD for at least the boot drive, you're taking a HUGE performance hit over more modern systems too.

    1. Re: No... not really that true .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And all those advancements amount to what in terms of real performance gains? Take ssd and GPUs out of the equation (easily upgraded) and what's left is something like 30-40% higher performance when comparing to a 5 year older machine.
      I had to swap my 4 year old notebook (died) and guess what's the difference? It's lighter and the battery lasts longer. That's it. For some people that's not enough.

    2. Re:No... not really that true .... by ruir · · Score: 1

      It depends on the machine. The way I see it, Macs are stalled on time.
      Plus, in certain parts of Europe we are asked to pay 600USD more than the price of the same model in the US. Fuck that.
      I actually have a Macbook Pro from 2013, i7 3.0GHz, 3000 something x 2500 something screen, SSD, 5GHz wifi...the battery is not what used to be, but apart from that, II only am seeing now screens with that large resolution in middle-top tier notebooks...
      From the stalling specs, to that damn menu replacing keys, I honestly doubt my next computer will be a Mac ever again, and believing me, between work machines and home machines, I already owned around 10 Mac machines...
      If Tim Cook does start caring less about "diversity" and Apple people going to gay pride parades, and starts worrying more about the user base, that buys iPhones, iPads and Apple TV because it has Macbooks, and the ecosystem plays nice, well...Apple is doomed.
      Tim, if you are reading this, the iWatch concept sucks!

  41. New campus might help? by King_TJ · · Score: 1

    The *one* remaining hope I have for Apple is that huge new "spaceship" campus they're building. I mean, if you look at all the office space that gives them? That could represent an opportunity for Apple to finally employ enough engineers, developers and designers to really plow forward with some innovation.

    I find it interesting that so far, I've heard that Apple intends to keep all of its existing office buildings after the new one goes online, too.

    They don't do any manufacturing in any of these buildings ... so ALL of this would appear to be for the purposing of coding software, designing things, or providing user support.

    I don't know for sure, but I think it's possible Apple has kind of put things on the back burner while it ramps all of this up and reorganizes staff internally?

    1. Re:New campus might help? by PCM2 · · Score: 1

      They don't do any manufacturing in any of these buildings ... so ALL of this would appear to be for the purposing of coding software, designing things, or providing user support.

      You seem to be ignoring the need for multiple layers of middle management, floors dedicated to designing overpriced headphones, and the thousands of people it takes to run the universe's leading online digital storefronts!

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
  42. How is the Mac in the walled garden? by Brannon · · Score: 1

    You can install software from anywhere on a Mac.

    People in the Apple ecosystem are perfectly aware of products from outside the ecosystem--we don't like them. If you like them, then go buy them.

  43. Re:That's what happens when you're offering 1 prod by mandolin · · Score: 1

    The iMac and Mac Mini are laptops being sold as desktops instead of being engineered to be what they are —desktop products.

    I don't see the problem with that, since the iMac + Mac Mini are severely space-constrained, just like a laptop. My AOpen MiniPC from 2009 uses what are, effectively, laptop parts.
    If you want to go after Apple, look at their soldering of memory and (especially) SSD parts to the chassis.

  44. Market prices for used Mac Pros by AnalogDiehard · · Score: 2

    Have you seen the market prices for used Mac Pros? The last of the "cheese grater" Mac Pros - especially the 12 core models - are trading for serious bucks, almost their original sale price. When Apple released the inferior "new" Mac Pro, the demand for the older systems went up.

    Man am I glad I abandoned the Windows world and bought my 12-core Mac Pro back in 2012.

    --
    Eternity: will that be smoking, or non-smoking? I Corinthians 6:9-10
    1. Re:Market prices for used Mac Pros by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People must be addicted to Final Cut Pro, since all other editing software is available on Windows. You can build a 12-core or more computer no problem there as well as triple or quad SLI.

      On the cheaper end, you could build a cheaper workstation using a hexacore i7 instead of Xeons (depends if you need ECC memory, of course).

      About the only reason to own a Mac these days is Final Cut Pro or developing for iOS.

  45. Re:Demographics by fisternipply · · Score: 1

    You have the imagination of an clueless a$$hole.

  46. Not easily and it's getting worse. by Leslie43 · · Score: 1

    Each release is becoming more and more difficult to do it.
    El Capitan requires a right click to force it to open and Sierra added a switch to disable it entirely.

    Yes, I realize none of that is particularly difficult, but in Sierra's case you have to know the switch exists in the first place in order to use it. It's not even like they hid it, but the warning could at least give you a hint that the setting exists if you want to change it rather than just telling you that you can't install the software. That's just being lazy or a jerk.

    1. Re:Not easily and it's getting worse. by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      Each release is becoming more and more difficult to do it..

      Yeah - if you are a moron, it's really hard. IOW Apple did exactly the right thing of protecting really stupid people from running software that clearly are not able to handle properly.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
  47. So in your world "walls" are only 6 inches high? by Brannon · · Score: 0

    I guess that'll make Trump's border wall a lot easier to build.

  48. Used to be one computer ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It used to be one computer and maybe half a dozen pieces of software. Now it's a Mac -- or maybe two, the desktop and the laptop -- and a device -- or maybe two, or three, or eight, if the whole family has phones and iPads. It's an expensive habit to support, and I think part of the drop off may be due to the devices siphoning off money.

    A new computer usually means an OS update, which means getting all the software updated -- and paying for the commercial, mission critical stuff -- and getting all the devices talking to the updated Mac, and logging back into everything, and restoring all the preferences and automation, and getting the backups going again, and frankly, I'd rather put beans up my nose.

    And the hardware lasts forever. The oldest working laptop I have is a 1995 PowerBook 520, and the youngest is a 2011 17" MacBook Pro, bought refurbished as the world rushed to retina displays. It does everything I want it to do, and more.

  49. The greatest trick Steve Jobs ever pulled - by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    - was calling a rubber chiclet keyboard an "Island" keyboard, and watching Apple hipsters buy it in droves.

  50. As good as dead before World War I. by westlake · · Score: 1

    Firestone Ford and Standard oil engaged in nearly illegal actions, buying bus lines and tram lines and closing them down etc.

    The streetcar token cost 5 cents. The Model T Ford about a penny a mile for a family of four plus dog and cargo. "You could afford a Ford." The automobile was convenient, comfortable, and private. The tram lines went under because riders were looking elsewhere.

    1. Re:As good as dead before World War I. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1
      Street cars and rail roads had to maintain their own infrastructure. Private cars ran on tax payer funded roads.

      In some sense karma is a bitch. The railroads were great vehicles to raid the tax payer's treasury. The trans continental railroad was built almost completely by public funds, and what the public funds built were owned by private companies, Central Pacific and Union Pacific. Cities raised taxes and paid private companies to bring railroads. Gave them land too. But it was not new. In an earlier era Canal companies were the vehicles of crony capitalism.

      Then the auto industry came in, let the tax payer build and maintain the roads. Now the railroads could not compete anymore. Now there are moves afoot to convert the interstates into toll roads and sell them to private companies. With very onerous clauses for the tax payer. Government could not build alternative roads that would divert traffic without compensating the buyers of the toll roads, should guarantee some minimum revenue stream etc etc. When crony capitalists get their hands on the interstate and raise the costs, you might find people forced to switch to, ... I don't know... drones?

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    2. Re: As good as dead before World War I. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lol. Yes. The poor won't afford to travel much. And even busses would be more expensive. Maybe train would boom again? Well, where do the poor need to go anyway?

  51. All Apple had to do by AHuxley · · Score: 1

    is keep parts flowing from a few US cpu and gpu brands.
    Bump that iMac, mini, pro every year. The OS spans a few hardware cycles. Slowly remove OS support from the past hardware.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  52. Not targeting the current growth segment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    PC sales overall may be stagnating but sales of gaming focused machines are on the upswing. If Apple were to make an Apple TV with support for AAA console gaming and gaming SKUs of the Macbook that supported AAA titles they could make some serious coin. Seems like they need to get on the cross-platform low level graphics API bandwagon rather than rolling their own if they ever want that to happen.

  53. I was waiting to upgrade by sproketboy · · Score: 1

    I was waiting to upgrade my macbook pro but these new ones are underpowered, overpriced and removed ports. Fuck you Apple. I made a hackintosh instead.

  54. New mac? Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No new macs? No problem. I'm building a hackintosh tomorrow that will annihilate the Mac Pro for about a quarter of the cost. Problem solved.

    1. Re:New mac? Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm building a hackintosh tomorrow that will annihilate the Mac Pro for about a quarter of the cost.

      Good luck!

  55. Mac unit sales outgrew market for the last decade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This was the first full year they've lost ground in unit sales. But...

    Apple's average selling price is around $1200 a unit, while PC Venders average around $500 a unit. This means Apple is still probably the most successful PC maker in the world by revenues. Macs have to account for over 15% of the PC market spending.

    Also, Apple's Mac profit margins are in the 15-20% range, while PC venders subsist on 2-4% profit margins. That means Apple is certainly the most profitable PC vendor in the world, and it's Mac sales are roughly as profitable as the rest of all of the PC vendors in the world combined.

    Mac sales are over $20B a year. on the Fortune 500 list the Mac would be around 150th. it's a huge business and not going away any time soon. But Apple needs to do a better job of keeping it's lineup fresh.

  56. Don't Tell Me What I Want! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This drives me crazy. What the hell does the CPU generation have to do with the amount of RAM in a device? Little or nothing, is the real answer.

    What the hell does the company making the device, have to do with telling me how much RAM I want or need? Little or nothing, is the real answer.

    Except for Apple and their products. And yes, I have the same answer for any other company attempting the same.

    1. Re:Don't Tell Me What I Want! by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      What the hell does the CPU generation have to do with the amount of RAM in a device?

      For about the last 10 years, the memory controller has been on the CPU, so the maximum amount of RAM that a device can support is controlled by the CPU. No Intel mobile chips has ever supported more than 16GB of LPDDR, so that's the limit that we have for mobile devices (unless you want to use full-power DDR and either have crappy battery life or a battery so large that the FAA won't let you take it on a plane).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  57. Trapple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because Apple is TRASH today.

    Remove features + don't add new ones = TRASH PRODUCT

  58. It's Not All Apple's Fault by Hercules+Peanut · · Score: 1

    Don't get me wrong, I want Apple to innovate and improve and there is room to do that. Just don't lose sight of the fact that the hardware isn't tripling in performance every 18 months, like it used to.

    The recent new Intel chips aren't impressing a lot of people right now (https://www.cnet.com/news/intel-kaby-lake-7th-gen-7700-7600-7350/) and the AMD FX chips today are almost the same speed AND PRICE they were two years ago.

    Lack of competition in the high end graphics cards means high prices for top of the line GPUs too. A recent quote from Toms Hardware: "Further up the hierarchy, prices haven’t changed much. There’s just nothing new from AMD to make Nvidia flinch." (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-gpus,4380.html)

    Can Apple do better? Absolutely!

    After three years, are components that much better? Yeah, somewhat.

    When good VR capable GPUs become affordable, then we may see a major refresh. Until then, an i5 and a 2GB GPU is more than enough to do most everything I need or want to do. Even an i3 is good enough for many (most?) games.