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97 Tech Companies Including Apple, Google, Microsoft Call Travel Ban Unlawful In Rare Coordinated Legal Action (washingtonpost.com)
An anonymous reader shares a WashingtonPost report: Silicon Valley is stepping up its confrontation with the Trump administration. On Sunday night, technology giants Apple, Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Netflix, Twitter, Uber and many others filed a legal brief opposing the administration's contentious entry ban. The move represents a rare coordinated action across a broad swath of the industry (Editor's note: the link could be paywalled; alternate source) -- 97 companies in total -- and demonstrates the depth of animosity toward the Trump ban. The amicus brief was filed with the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit, which is expected to rule within a few days on an appeal by the administration after a federal judge in Seattle issued late Friday a temporary restraining order putting the entry ban on hold. The brief comes at the end of a week of nationwide protests against the plan -- as well as a flurry of activity in Silicon Valley, a region that sees immigration as central to its identity as an innovation hub.From a TechCrunch report: Notably absent from the list of 97 companies are several who met with Trump prior to his inauguration: Amazon, Oracle, IBM, SpaceX and Tesla. Although Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos was highly critical of Trump prior to his election, he has not spoken out against the immigration policy. Oracle CEO Safra Catz is serving as an advisor to the Trump transition team, while SpaceX and Tesla CEO Elon Musk has defended his decision to remain on an advisory council for Trump.
Why don't we just allow them to get exemptions for anyone they have that qualifies as a truly highly skilled employee that they can't get locally and be done with it? Personally I feel there wouldn't be that many and this is actually about cheap labor.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Companies don't do this because they have deeply held legal or ethical principles. They do it because one side of the case makes them more money than the other.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
all those big wig IT executives that want to open the floodgates for refugees open their homes and guest houses to refugees
Not a chance. They'll do what the elitist pricks in France and Italy did while cheering on the "migrants" and so on. Cheer, cheer, cheer while they're flooding in and the average person gets fucked. Then when they show up on their door step, scream "help me police and government, you're our only hope." And build a wall or two while they're at it.
Om, nomnomnom...
The next presidential decrete sets the number of H1-B visas to be given out the next 4 years to 0, while congress gets to pass a law to end the H1-B visas completely.
Or, and I'm just throwing this out there....
it's a terribly conceived, poorly written, and horribly implemented EO that doesn't actually make the U.S. safer, provides our enemies with the recruitment point they've been wanting for years, and conveniently leaves out countries in the Middle East where terrorists who have killed people on U.S. soil have come from. (They're also countries that Trump has business interests in, but I'm sure that's just an amazing coincidence.)
Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
Unconstitutional, I can understand, or even calling it just plain wrong, but unlawful?
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
if you are legal to live in the US. stay here. if not. get a clue or get deported. this is not rocket science. there are some people that the US citizen is simply not comfortable with and this is why they voted for trump.
While this condemnation of the travel ban is laudable, I don't think that it will have much impact on Mr. Trump simply because he is something of a Luddite - don't forget that through the Clinton email scandal, Mr. Trump declared that he thinks computers are overused for communication and, other than Twitter, it doesn't seem like he uses anything other than paper.
Along with this, I suspect that if you were to look at where these companies' employees were situated, you would discover that they would be overwhelmingly in constituencies which didn't vote for him which really makes their value to him in retaining power negligible. If it is extremely unlikely that they would support him.
So, if he doesn't see the value of the technology being represented by these companies and nobody in them votes for him, why would anybody think this would have affect on him or anybody in his administration?
Mimetics Inc. Twitter
First red flag here - why are only tech companies doing this? Where are the other blue chip companies? if this is a huge problem for teh US, and is unlawful, why is the only sector speaking up the same sector that imports the most foreign workers on restricted visas?
That's all true, but here we have an aggressive fight by 97 tech companies that don't seem to give a crap about people in their own back yard. You have to wonder what their real motivation is.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
The Republicans have been doing this since 2008. Some of people we consider moderates today actually originally rode to power harnessing the Tea Party movement that incubated the more extreme Trump agenda. Right now, they have complete control over two branches of government, and the only reason they don't control the third is that it's not elected.
So given it's worked for them so far, I can't imagine it'll destroy them until the US itself is completely destroyed by this insanity.
I suspect the next few elections will be more "Can we elect people who'll keep the Trump regime under control?" rather than "Can we make Elizabeth Warren President and get universal healthcare back?"
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
If by "slave labour" you mean the tech workers earning 6 figure salaries, with in some cases stock options, then yeah I'm ok with that.
Code, Hardware, stuff like that.
Hurry up and do it. There's nothing special about Silicon Valley. Those talented people you want to keep out will find other places to go that are more friendly to building global businesses.
Support Right To Repair Legislation.
List of countries comes from Section 217(a)(12) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (Signed by Obama)
Section 212(f) of the INA, U.S. Code 1182 - Inadmissible aliens: "Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate."
Congress already approved the, Trump just invoked it.
Non-citizens of this country have no affirmative right to reenter this country. Is it in the constitution? Is it in the bill of rights? It's not. If you have a visa or green card, we don't have to let you come back. Heck, it even says it on your visa application page:
Question: "After I have my visa, I will be able to enter the U.S., correct?
Answer: "A visa does not guarantee entry into the United States. A visa allows a foreign citizen to travel to the U.S. port-of-entry, and the Department of Homeland Security U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) immigration inspector authorizes or denies admission to the United States."
So this lawsuit is FUD, it's a bunch of leftist companies whining, pissing, and moaning that they can't get their cheap labor or doing their SJW duties. The only saving grace for the leftist is SC is split between 4 leftist, 2 rightist, and 2 RINOs...
*Please note before you start attacking me. I for open borders, but only after we: 1) Remove the federal welfare system completely, 2) make citizenship easier to obtain. I have no issue with Trumps temporary ban, considering all of the nations listed are failed states. Kind of hard to ask those governments who these people are when they're engulfed in civil wars (or there is no government).
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that most, if not all, of those 97 companies are global. When one country does {stupid thing}, other countries tend to react to that by doing their own {differently stupid but related thing}. That makes it very hard to continue doing business effectively.
Now, are these companies uncaring about people in their own backyard? Well, technically, yes. But no more so than normal. They want to continue to make profits. If they could make lots of money by treating all employees like fluffy bunnies who just need a hug, they would. Especially if they would make less money by being uncaring.
But most companies do not shit on their employees without a reason. And most companies want employee morale to be good, as it increase productivity. If employees are worried about being stranded in another country because the country they work in is passing poorly thought out travel laws, it tends to affect employee morale negatively.
Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
Companies spend millions on anti-Trump ads because he's threatening their H1B slave labor pool. They don't give a flying fuck about his stance on social issues.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
You have to wonder what their real motivation is.
Elimination of the headphone jack... er, I mean fairness! And bravery!!
I noticed that one of the countries that are in the Trump list is Iraq. Lots of refugees there caused by the destabilization of the country caused by some other country invading it. I wonder what country that was? Then there is another country where the 9-11 terrorists came from that isn't affected by the travel ban. I wonder why that is? Could someone in this administration have a financial interest in this country? Nah, I can't believe something like that. Administration folks are good honest outstanding citizens to have any conflict of interest.
Then how the hell did he win the election?
There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
But these companies would be doing better if they treated their employees well with high compensation packages. Kids coming out of high school go into professions that show a history of being interested in the workers. If the problem is as these tech companies say, not enough kids learning programming, then the solution is to make the industry better for workers and more people will go into it. This may not help them this quarter, but they have spent years digging themselves deep so what do they expect?
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
I'm a bit disturbed to see Musk sucking up to Trump. Does anyone have a reliable source on why he's doing it?
My guess is that he has no choice. One of his companies (SpaceX) depends a lot on government money. Trump could deeply damage it with a penstroke by excluding it from ISS resupply missions, or forbidding it to compete for national security launches. His other company (Tesla) does not go well with Trump's love for the oil industry.
entropy happens
I believe GP is referring to top .0001% of people in terms of wealth, that backed Trump. Not .0001% of the population.
all those big wig IT executives that want to open the floodgates for refugees open their homes and guest houses to refugees, they can sleep in your spare bedrooms and eat your food, use your couch and TV,
They don't want immigrants in their homes, they want them working in their factories and offices (for a fraction of what they would have to pay an American).
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Now to be Republican you have to be pro Federal Legislation and anti Big Business?
I expect their "real motivation" without any reaching for conspiracy theories is that this harms their business. It's a stupid order issued by a stupid president to placate stupid people.
It wasn't the Republican establishment that put Trump into power. They did everything they could to keep him from winning either the nomination or the Presidency. It was the people who voted for him, the people who are tired of getting fucked over by shitty trade and immigration policies and who no longer give a fuck who the political establishment (or CNN or Hollywood) wants them to vote for.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
IF "they treated their employees well with high compensation packages"???
Fuck, man, are you not paying attention?
Other than Uber which tries to classify its drivers as 'not employees', ALL of the tech companies pay their employees very well.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
So if that's the case then all kinds of high school students must be going into technology and we don't need the H1-B program at all. If not enough students are available for them then they need to make things better. There is no middle ground.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Companies never directly spend millions on political ads to influence policy - through PACs, yeah, but directly, pretty much never. They do, however, spend millions on ads that they think will sell their products, and it happens that "Yeah, we think Trump sucks too. Drink Budweiser" sells products. You can probably figure out why for yourself.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
On both sides of the aisle, the social issues are for the activists and the idealogues. Politicians pay lip service to them and then take no action on them in office. (Well, until now)
What gets the politicians moving is not social issues. It's money. Money from corporate donations from these big tech companies. (What side gets most of that money?) The manpower of the ground game in election races that keep them in power.
Both parties pretend to care about social issues, but all they really care about is keeping themselves in office and their parties in power.
A really nice article in National Review pointed this out last week - http://www.nationalreview.com/...
Well, you reap what you sow, I can't say it any other way. Yes rural areas have trouble with doctors, that's why there are recruitment drives. Tech companies can do the same.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Well, yes, intelligent people see him for the Dunning-Kruger charlatan that he is, so even when his policies are advantageous, they fear the taint his supporting them would bring to their cause. So opposing Trump is always a win-win in the long run.
I know you people still feel like losers, even after your political tantrum was successful, so it must really stick in your craw when Trump is thwarted. You're just going to have to learn to live with it. The President is not a king and he must answer to a wide variety of power that challenges his own - and his only originates from and is limited by the Constitution. He has no soft power at all. His leverage is that of a toddler holding gasoline and a match.
You might want to consider why right-wing boycotts and protests usually amount to nothing more than providing material to comedians, while the protests against Trump have traction and are supported by the most successful companies. I mean, even Anheuser-Busch trolled you dumbasses hard.
Canadian. Technically. William. Shatner's. fault.
Blank until
From what I can see, the problem in the most egregious cases isn't the rules, it's that the rules haven't been enforced. With Trump's general deregulation policy, I suppose there really is no alternative than to heavily limit H1Bs, because the border is the one place he seems keen to have lots of barriers.
Of course, you already see places like Europe and China making a clear argument that maybe all the experts should go work for them. Trump's policies may have the effect of starving the US of pools of foreign talent that have made it a dominant economic power for decades.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
It's not just "no American", it's "no American available to fill the post" for a given price
The citizens are quite available, the companies have to quit being picky.
while stats keep saying that these companies that are supposedly abusing the system are mostly whit
Easy to say that when the firm contracts out to a body shop, thus rendering any and all calculations invalid.
You can argue that companies should be required to help Americans move to fill posts
Even if it's entry-level work, I'd have no problem with that.
Make it such a royal PITA to not [directly] hire a citizen for an FTE position that they don't bother with non-citizens.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
The fact the intent of the list was different than Trump's has no bearing on this? I'm trying to sort out this logic. It's almost as if you're trying to assert that Obama is somehow responsible for President Trump's EO. As others have pointed out, these countries are not responsible for attacks on US soil. Saudi Arabia and Egypt, however, did prove 9-11 hijackers, so one wonders why actual countries that have produced actual terrorists that have actually attacked US citizens on US soil were not added. It's almost as if the EO was poorly thought-out, was meant more as a bit of security theater, but it was so badly written and coordination with the departments needed to enforce it so mismanaged that it turned into a complete shit show.
The real problem with the travel ban, to my mind, isn't that it happened (that was stupid enough), but if you are going to implement such policies, then implement them. What we're seeing here isn't just nasty government, what we're seeing is just plain incompetent government.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
The thing that makes someone a slave is that he knows that he can't leave. If someone knows that being fired means going back to his dangerous third world country, then he doesn't really have much freedom in choosing his employer. So yes, to some extent, it makes his job closer to slavery than yours.
Avantgarde Hebrew science fiction
You misunderstand the goal.
The goal is not a competent administration. The goal is to throw a Molotov cocktail at the status quo, because it has become obvious that no one in that status quo is listening.
Right now as a parent in technology I wouldn't want my kids in it even if they were interested. Back when I went in everyone was telling me that technology was so important everyone would need me to work for them. It didn't pan out that way. Tech companies got all kinds of ways around a fair job market. My kids are going into another industry that treats their workers better and must participate in a fair market.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
1. Import people with a wide variety of incompatible cultures to your country.
2. Actively discourage assimilation by promoting multiculturalism and denouncing any criticism of the incompatible culture as "racism."
3. When violence inevitably occurs, demand expanded police and surveillance powers to maintain "stability."
You lose your culture, are forced to live next to people who are at best indifferent to you and at worst want to kill you, lose your civil rights and get a police state, too. What's not to love?
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
They aren't asking for refugees to be let in, they are saying that a blanket ban, like the one Trump is trying to implement, to stop _anyone_ from those countries from entering the US, for _any_ reason, is hurting them.
/. these days, it used to be a good forum, but as soon as Trump / foreigners etc are mentioned in a story, the anti-H1B movement comes rushing in, and floods all comments to the point that its depressing to read them.
They do business in those countries, they need to sell their products there, and be able to support them, have teams there for the local markets, and now none of them can get to the US and be trained, they cant come for conferences, they cant assist in projects and so on... not to mention the negative image this gives US companies in not only the banned countries, but also in many others.
If you are from Iran, do really good research, then should you not be able to present that research in a conference, even if its in the US?
Its sad to see the comments on
I simply don't get how you can move from "cannot get our staff from abroad here for training and conferences" to "they should let refugees sleep in their homes".
Well, yes, intelligent people see him for the Dunning-Kruger charlatan that he is, so even when his policies are advantageous
I love the "Trump is stupid" meme. The guy is a billionaire who smashed two political dynasties, the Republican party, the Democratic party and the entire media establishment with a hat and a twitter feed. But you're the smart guy.
I know you people still feel like losers, even after your political tantrum was successful, so it must really stick in your craw when Trump is thwarted. You're just going to have to learn to live with it. The President is not a king and he must answer to a wide variety of power that challenges his own - and his only originates from and is limited by the Constitution.
The injunction issued by a whiny, politically motivated judge whose argument was nothing but "my fee-fees!" is not going to stand. The power to halt the entry of any class of alien for whatever reason is a power that has been granted to the President by Congress, and there are piles and piles of case law and precedent that show that it will stand. Sorry, but the Somali ghettos you love so much will have their growth hampered by a measly 90 days and you're going to have to learn to live with it.
You might want to consider why right-wing boycotts and protests usually amount to nothing more than providing material to comedians
See Macy's stock over the last year?
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
If that is the goal, then it is sheer stupidity. Having the US government spiral into chaos domestically as it leaves a trail of ruin through foreign allies may disrupt the status quo, but it won't produce some sort of fantastic result.
As it is, it's pretty clear that this is going to be a stress test of the Constitution, because the courts, and likely a somewhat unwilling Congress, are now going to have to spend a lot of time minimizing the damage of the Trump administration. I wonder if the end result will in fact be a diminished Presidency.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
He hasn't been following through on his campaign promise to stop terrorists from coming in. Instead he has picked a list of countries that would be easiest to sell as doing something while continuing to let those most likely, based on prior performance, to be terrorists.
If he was serious about terrorists, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan would be close to the top of the list and if this was about H1Bs, countries such as India would be on the list.
He has done a good job of alienating some of his base such as the Christian Syrian community with his ill thought out travel ban.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
Or it could be they lose their predatory hiring practices and want to unite against it? Your insult of "stupid people" IS a major reason Trump got elected. You do know that, right? You continuing to call everything you personally don't like "stupid" is not only immature and very ignorant, but it will ensure Trump gets a second term. Keep it up, and you'll get more of what you don't want.
I understand feminism as a political movement that:
1) insists that women are victims, thus encouraging a victim mentality
2) insists that women deserve special treatment, thus encouraging an entitlement mentality.
If I am incorrect on these points, could you please correct me? No links to novels please, something trenchant, clear, and supported. Thanks.
Feminism has many faces, and with it many definitions. My understanding of feminism is not as dismissive as yours. IMHO, feminists:
(1) believe in social and political equality of the sexes; and
(2) acknowledge that women have been disadvantaged historically because of their gender.
And that means people of either gender can be, and are, feminists.
I trust the above is trenchant and clear. As for supported, well, you could spend a long time googling, but the Wikipedia article is not bad.
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
Past couple of decades? The process started with at least Jefferson, and probably the President most critical to the Presidency grand scope was Lincoln, whose actions in office, and whose ultimate defeat of the Confederacy made it very clear that the Federal Government was pre-eminent. Then we can talk about FDR, Eisenhower, Nixon and Reagan who all flexed federal muscle.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
The goal is not a competent administration. The goal is to throw a Molotov cocktail at the status quo, because it has become obvious that no one in that status quo is listening.
I'm sorry, but I don't think you're in touch with the bulk of Trump's power base, which both objects to the status quo and thinks that Trump is "a successful businessman" which they in turn think is "what America needs right now". They are not in touch with the facts that Trump is not a successful businessman — he is outperformed by the S&P 500, which should be a compelling argument even if you don't believe that he is a con artist. Or how about this one: he's been outperformed by Paris Hilton. I like that one even better.
Trump is a con artist, but those of his supporters who are willing to believe that also believe that this is a good thing, because it makes him effective. It hasn't dawned on them that this means that they can be getting conned because they are suffering from Dunning-Krueger and operating way above their respective pay grades as a result — literally.
Voting for Trump because of dissatisfaction with the status quo is, as has been stated previously in many circles, cutting off one's face to spite one's face, never mind the nose. Trump is the prime example of a rich white fat cat who abuses everyone around him; perhaps, in fact, the best example America has ever seen. Trump is America's most successful con artist. Odds are that there has never been a president who cared less for this country than Trump. Trump owns a visa mill of his very own; anyone who imagines that he's going to fix the problem is suffering a lack of everything but imagination.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
In a gentle way, Canada has done (1) and (2) pretty much since the 1950s. Certainly there has been some vigorous debate, but no widespread denunciation or violence.
Canada has not "lost" its culture, at least not due to multiculturalism. On the contrary, it has evolved into a mosaic of cultures from all over the world, but with a common theme of mutual respect and understanding.
Fearing the loss of your culture and imagining your neighbors want to kill you should be a wake-up call to reconsider what you think your culture really is.
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
this is more of a political move by these companies and not real outrage over the policy. they don't like trump so even though multiple presidents have done it, and many more will do it.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Wrong. Hilary Clinton gave us Trump on a silver platter.
Strong immigration policy by not "banning" the country that has produced the most foreign terrorists that have made attacks on American soil. Is it a coincidence the countries that were banned just happen to not having business ties with Trump entities? When I saw the list and didn't see Saudi Arabia on it.. I knew it was a joke. Not to mention there has been far more American born terrorism in the US post 9/11.
I'm all for legal immigration. His ban punished people who legally immigrated.
As for illegal immigration from Latin America.. the best way to combat it is to turn their economies around. If we continue to piss on our poorer neighbors, they will find a way to sneak into our country even with a wall in place. Do I have a solution? No. It just seems like common sense to not make enemies of your neighbors.
"Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
Correct MM. Have any of the rest of you taken any government classes, ever? Every branch of government continually attempts to expand their power. Every single one, every single time they are given the opportunity.
The problem is those people who view their party as the salvation of the country, rather than viewing the people of the country as their allies regardless of political affiliation. Why is this the problem? Because partisan sub-humans support government power expansion when it is done by the leaders they elect. Since they view their elected leader as a club with which to beat the rest of the population into submission to their dearly held principles, the more power they can invest in those leaders the better. One would think that it would be obvious to even the most rabidly partisan that this is incredibly short sighted and counterproductive.
One would think...
When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
No one was banned. The order was a temporary pause in admission of people that immigration had no way of figuring out who they were and what their reason for wanting to enter the county was. The pause was to establish better ways of identifying people before they entered the country with freedom to travel anywhere they wanted. There was no religious groups specified, only country of origin. Previously approved green cards were honored. Please read the material and stop listening to sources with TDS.
Isn't it always the victim's fault?
Fanatically anti-fanatical