Slashdot Mirror
97 Tech Companies Including Apple, Google, Microsoft Call Travel Ban Unlawful In Rare Coordinated Legal Action (washingtonpost.com)
An anonymous reader shares a WashingtonPost report: Silicon Valley is stepping up its confrontation with the Trump administration. On Sunday night, technology giants Apple, Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Netflix, Twitter, Uber and many others filed a legal brief opposing the administration's contentious entry ban. The move represents a rare coordinated action across a broad swath of the industry (Editor's note: the link could be paywalled; alternate source) -- 97 companies in total -- and demonstrates the depth of animosity toward the Trump ban. The amicus brief was filed with the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit, which is expected to rule within a few days on an appeal by the administration after a federal judge in Seattle issued late Friday a temporary restraining order putting the entry ban on hold. The brief comes at the end of a week of nationwide protests against the plan -- as well as a flurry of activity in Silicon Valley, a region that sees immigration as central to its identity as an innovation hub.From a TechCrunch report: Notably absent from the list of 97 companies are several who met with Trump prior to his inauguration: Amazon, Oracle, IBM, SpaceX and Tesla. Although Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos was highly critical of Trump prior to his election, he has not spoken out against the immigration policy. Oracle CEO Safra Catz is serving as an advisor to the Trump transition team, while SpaceX and Tesla CEO Elon Musk has defended his decision to remain on an advisory council for Trump.
Why don't we just allow them to get exemptions for anyone they have that qualifies as a truly highly skilled employee that they can't get locally and be done with it? Personally I feel there wouldn't be that many and this is actually about cheap labor.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
97 Tech companies lament the loss of one cheap immigration stream.
Companies don't do this because they have deeply held legal or ethical principles. They do it because one side of the case makes them more money than the other.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Of course CEOs want cheap migrant labor to handle their lawn, swimming pools, Rolls Royces, and of course, coding...
all those big wig IT executives that want to open the floodgates for refugees open their homes and guest houses to refugees
Not a chance. They'll do what the elitist pricks in France and Italy did while cheering on the "migrants" and so on. Cheer, cheer, cheer while they're flooding in and the average person gets fucked. Then when they show up on their door step, scream "help me police and government, you're our only hope." And build a wall or two while they're at it.
Om, nomnomnom...
Anyone that even states they will meet with Trump are faced by backlash, protests, and boycotts.
The idea of forcing Trump to stay solely within his echo chamber just shows that these whiny people and businesses (including all the people that threaten to boycott anyone that might even sing at a Trump event) are nothing more than pouting children.
I hope Trump just keeps moving forward. These are not people that will ever be satisfied or content with Trump. There is no reason to cater to them at all.
The next presidential decrete sets the number of H1-B visas to be given out the next 4 years to 0, while congress gets to pass a law to end the H1-B visas completely.
Or, and I'm just throwing this out there....
it's a terribly conceived, poorly written, and horribly implemented EO that doesn't actually make the U.S. safer, provides our enemies with the recruitment point they've been wanting for years, and conveniently leaves out countries in the Middle East where terrorists who have killed people on U.S. soil have come from. (They're also countries that Trump has business interests in, but I'm sure that's just an amazing coincidence.)
Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
all those big wig IT executives that want to open the floodgates for refugees open their homes and guest houses to refugees
Not a chance. They'll do what the elitist pricks in France and Italy did while cheering on the "migrants" and so on. Cheer, cheer, cheer while they're flooding in and the average person gets fucked. Then when they show up on their door step, scream "help me police and government, you're our only hope." And build a wall or two while they're at it.
In other words, "Let them eat cake."
Unconstitutional, I can understand, or even calling it just plain wrong, but unlawful?
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
if you are legal to live in the US. stay here. if not. get a clue or get deported. this is not rocket science. there are some people that the US citizen is simply not comfortable with and this is why they voted for trump.
While this condemnation of the travel ban is laudable, I don't think that it will have much impact on Mr. Trump simply because he is something of a Luddite - don't forget that through the Clinton email scandal, Mr. Trump declared that he thinks computers are overused for communication and, other than Twitter, it doesn't seem like he uses anything other than paper.
Along with this, I suspect that if you were to look at where these companies' employees were situated, you would discover that they would be overwhelmingly in constituencies which didn't vote for him which really makes their value to him in retaining power negligible. If it is extremely unlikely that they would support him.
So, if he doesn't see the value of the technology being represented by these companies and nobody in them votes for him, why would anybody think this would have affect on him or anybody in his administration?
Mimetics Inc. Twitter
First red flag here - why are only tech companies doing this? Where are the other blue chip companies? if this is a huge problem for teh US, and is unlawful, why is the only sector speaking up the same sector that imports the most foreign workers on restricted visas?
It is another example of the absolute greed that afflicts the IT sector. They are afraid that they will not be able to hire maggots because the maggot wranglers will not be able to get enough visas to replace American workers.
That's all true, but here we have an aggressive fight by 97 tech companies that don't seem to give a crap about people in their own back yard. You have to wonder what their real motivation is.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
If by "slave labour" you mean the tech workers earning 6 figure salaries, with in some cases stock options, then yeah I'm ok with that.
Code, Hardware, stuff like that.
Hurry up and do it. There's nothing special about Silicon Valley. Those talented people you want to keep out will find other places to go that are more friendly to building global businesses.
Support Right To Repair Legislation.
More interesting than that is that fact that wanting to hire Americans before foreigners is considered racist.
List of countries comes from Section 217(a)(12) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (Signed by Obama)
Section 212(f) of the INA, U.S. Code 1182 - Inadmissible aliens: "Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate."
Congress already approved the, Trump just invoked it.
Non-citizens of this country have no affirmative right to reenter this country. Is it in the constitution? Is it in the bill of rights? It's not. If you have a visa or green card, we don't have to let you come back. Heck, it even says it on your visa application page:
Question: "After I have my visa, I will be able to enter the U.S., correct?
Answer: "A visa does not guarantee entry into the United States. A visa allows a foreign citizen to travel to the U.S. port-of-entry, and the Department of Homeland Security U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) immigration inspector authorizes or denies admission to the United States."
So this lawsuit is FUD, it's a bunch of leftist companies whining, pissing, and moaning that they can't get their cheap labor or doing their SJW duties. The only saving grace for the leftist is SC is split between 4 leftist, 2 rightist, and 2 RINOs...
*Please note before you start attacking me. I for open borders, but only after we: 1) Remove the federal welfare system completely, 2) make citizenship easier to obtain. I have no issue with Trumps temporary ban, considering all of the nations listed are failed states. Kind of hard to ask those governments who these people are when they're engulfed in civil wars (or there is no government).
President's can't make law, that's the job of the legislative branch (congress) not the executive branch. That's why they're called Executive Orders rather than laws, and yes, they can be both unlawful AND unconstitutional (and just plain wrong).
Support Right To Repair Legislation.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that most, if not all, of those 97 companies are global. When one country does {stupid thing}, other countries tend to react to that by doing their own {differently stupid but related thing}. That makes it very hard to continue doing business effectively.
Now, are these companies uncaring about people in their own backyard? Well, technically, yes. But no more so than normal. They want to continue to make profits. If they could make lots of money by treating all employees like fluffy bunnies who just need a hug, they would. Especially if they would make less money by being uncaring.
But most companies do not shit on their employees without a reason. And most companies want employee morale to be good, as it increase productivity. If employees are worried about being stranded in another country because the country they work in is passing poorly thought out travel laws, it tends to affect employee morale negatively.
Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
And other citizens aren't uncomfortable with people like you, so what's your point?
Your rebuttal was so relevant that his entire family has actually begun cancelling their plans to illegally emigrate to eastern Turkey and Yemen.
"Americans" are not a race. So, not racist.
Companies spend millions on anti-Trump ads because he's threatening their H1B slave labor pool. They don't give a flying fuck about his stance on social issues.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
You have to wonder what their real motivation is.
Elimination of the headphone jack... er, I mean fairness! And bravery!!
I noticed that one of the countries that are in the Trump list is Iraq. Lots of refugees there caused by the destabilization of the country caused by some other country invading it. I wonder what country that was? Then there is another country where the 9-11 terrorists came from that isn't affected by the travel ban. I wonder why that is? Could someone in this administration have a financial interest in this country? Nah, I can't believe something like that. Administration folks are good honest outstanding citizens to have any conflict of interest.
Then how the hell did he win the election?
There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
"Corporations are evil. If a bunch of corporations all want something, it must be disastrous for regular people."
Liberals, 1992 - 2017
"Corporations are humanitarian. Look how many corporations are opposing Donald J. Hitler."
Liberals, 2017 - ongoing
But these companies would be doing better if they treated their employees well with high compensation packages. Kids coming out of high school go into professions that show a history of being interested in the workers. If the problem is as these tech companies say, not enough kids learning programming, then the solution is to make the industry better for workers and more people will go into it. This may not help them this quarter, but they have spent years digging themselves deep so what do they expect?
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
I'm a bit disturbed to see Musk sucking up to Trump. Does anyone have a reliable source on why he's doing it?
My guess is that he has no choice. One of his companies (SpaceX) depends a lot on government money. Trump could deeply damage it with a penstroke by excluding it from ISS resupply missions, or forbidding it to compete for national security launches. His other company (Tesla) does not go well with Trump's love for the oil industry.
entropy happens
I believe GP is referring to top .0001% of people in terms of wealth, that backed Trump. Not .0001% of the population.
all those big wig IT executives that want to open the floodgates for refugees open their homes and guest houses to refugees, they can sleep in your spare bedrooms and eat your food, use your couch and TV,
They don't want immigrants in their homes, they want them working in their factories and offices (for a fraction of what they would have to pay an American).
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
The leaders of these companies should do time in jail for illegally replacing American workers with H1-B visa workers, just to save money. The law is already very clear and they have abused it massively.
Now to be Republican you have to be pro Federal Legislation and anti Big Business?
No, they are doing it because they know they will make a shit-ton in asvertising dollars, you are giving them waaay too much credit. I fail to see how a temporary ban on 7 countries sounds the death knell for all immigration for all time. Listen: there is no question the man and his administration are apes, but we still have to think with our brains.
In the distant past articles of incorporation were only issued by the state legislature and only for causes that would be beneficial to the people or society (still today you must fill out the "cause" section of the filing, though you put "any lawful purpose" today). One wonders if there is any statutory provision or common law rule kicking around that would allow the revocation of a charter based on damage to the people or society.
It is, perhaps, something to think about for those so inclined to be involved in this issue on either side.
I expect their "real motivation" without any reaching for conspiracy theories is that this harms their business. It's a stupid order issued by a stupid president to placate stupid people.
It wasn't the Republican establishment that put Trump into power. They did everything they could to keep him from winning either the nomination or the Presidency. It was the people who voted for him, the people who are tired of getting fucked over by shitty trade and immigration policies and who no longer give a fuck who the political establishment (or CNN or Hollywood) wants them to vote for.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
IF "they treated their employees well with high compensation packages"???
Fuck, man, are you not paying attention?
Other than Uber which tries to classify its drivers as 'not employees', ALL of the tech companies pay their employees very well.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
Let us know when he's doing that.
Because so far, he's a retarded screaming shitgibbon making the country & countrymen much less safe on the worlds platform as it exists today.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
The only people "united" by this were already against him. He is doing what he promised during his campaign.
How does it destroy credibility by doing what he promised?
Hmm list of TBTFs make extra legal argument to try and influence what should be a narrow legal question about the scope of a 1952 immigration act.
It does not matter if you or anyone else things the action is a good idea. What matters is a very simple Question of did the legislation enacted by congress give the president the power to do what he did or not. Washington State and these mega corps are conflating irrelevant issues and trying to get the courts to act outside the law. They don't care about the rule of law. They care about their influence and want to prove theirs is greater than POTUS.
This is ACTUAL fascism folks, what these corporations are doing right here. Judge James Robart ought to be impeached, because he never should have issued a stay on something so impactful when the legal challenge is as weak as it is. I don't care who appointed him or how unanimously he was confirmed. Those things also are not relevant, the only thing that matters is can and will he do his job today and he showed he cant!
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
These companies are only interested in how it affects their bottom line. They can bring in H1B visa workers cheaper than they can hire American workers. This keeps downward pressure on salaries in the tech sector. Its about time this artificial suppression of tech workers' salaries was curbed and the greedy super-rich companies stop taking food, opportunity and jobs from the American workers' mouth.
Read up on the McCarran–Walter Act. POTUS has the authority to do this.
So if that's the case then all kinds of high school students must be going into technology and we don't need the H1-B program at all. If not enough students are available for them then they need to make things better. There is no middle ground.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
And how many of those companies are frothing at the mouth over Trumps proposed tax holiday that'll let them bring their money back?
Companies never directly spend millions on political ads to influence policy - through PACs, yeah, but directly, pretty much never. They do, however, spend millions on ads that they think will sell their products, and it happens that "Yeah, we think Trump sucks too. Drink Budweiser" sells products. You can probably figure out why for yourself.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Because high school kids are, on average, too lazy to work hard enough to obtain the skills to be employed like that.
Kind of like how doctors are highly compensated, but there aren't many of them. And rural people suffer for it.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
On both sides of the aisle, the social issues are for the activists and the idealogues. Politicians pay lip service to them and then take no action on them in office. (Well, until now)
What gets the politicians moving is not social issues. It's money. Money from corporate donations from these big tech companies. (What side gets most of that money?) The manpower of the ground game in election races that keep them in power.
Both parties pretend to care about social issues, but all they really care about is keeping themselves in office and their parties in power.
A really nice article in National Review pointed this out last week - http://www.nationalreview.com/...
I believe that before we give residency status to foreigners (particularly men), that they serve in the active armed forces. We need to know which way they'll shoot in case of a conflict.
Well, you reap what you sow, I can't say it any other way. Yes rural areas have trouble with doctors, that's why there are recruitment drives. Tech companies can do the same.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Canadian. Technically. William. Shatner's. fault.
Blank until
Small wonder they object -- the open secret in the tech industry is that they're using H-1Bs to generate a slave caste in the tech industry.
It's not just about the lower wages. It's also about the fact that these employees aren't allowed to quit.
Trump has openly said he will be going after H-1B abuse, and any restrictions in travel means they can't find some bright but desperate young adults from Europe and abuse the hell out of them. Turns out there's a bit of swamp in Silicon Valley, too.
The hostility towards citizens in tech (if not just Silicon Valley) isn't more obvious than this. They depend on a steady stream of people that they can easily control in ways not possible with US citizenship. If these firms really cared about immigration, they would encourage them to become citizens, not transients working for some foreign paymaster.
Never mind that the list includes about every major abuser of guest worker law, especially "forced training for severance" Disney. I hope that Trump turns the dial up to 11 and uses the laws that are available to him.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
These companies might want to be careful with this move. They keep claiming they're not overlooking/bypassing/not hiring U.S. workers for cheaper, overseas labor, yet here they are claiming this ban will affect their operations because they rely heavily on workers from these countries.
They claim there is a shortage of tech workers, and have been for decades, yet each year thousands of workers are laid off and thousands of new graduates enter the workforce. To claim they can't find someone while at the same time screaming they need to have these overseas workers to fill slots is disingenuous and hypocritical and does nothing to help their case.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
Sure they could, but the 5-10 year cycle would be ... inefficient for tech companies.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
From what I can see, the problem in the most egregious cases isn't the rules, it's that the rules haven't been enforced. With Trump's general deregulation policy, I suppose there really is no alternative than to heavily limit H1Bs, because the border is the one place he seems keen to have lots of barriers.
Of course, you already see places like Europe and China making a clear argument that maybe all the experts should go work for them. Trump's policies may have the effect of starving the US of pools of foreign talent that have made it a dominant economic power for decades.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Maybe schools could do a lot better job of identifying those whose talents and interests lie in certain directions earlier on, like the Germans do.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
It's not just "no American", it's "no American available to fill the post" for a given price
The citizens are quite available, the companies have to quit being picky.
while stats keep saying that these companies that are supposedly abusing the system are mostly whit
Easy to say that when the firm contracts out to a body shop, thus rendering any and all calculations invalid.
You can argue that companies should be required to help Americans move to fill posts
Even if it's entry-level work, I'd have no problem with that.
Make it such a royal PITA to not [directly] hire a citizen for an FTE position that they don't bother with non-citizens.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
he's a retarded screaming shitgibbon
Are you sure you are talking about Trump or the cry babies rioting ?
making the country & countrymen much less safe on the worlds platform as it exists today.
You can argue how effective the travel ban is/will be after time has passed to see the effects. What happened in 2011 when Obama did it? The whole point of the pause is to reassess the process to make sure we aren't letting in the bad ones like what has happened in Europe. Why is it that bad? In what way is that anything near nefarious and crappy as you and others make it out to be?
Trying to confuse enforcement of law and patriotism with racism says more about you than anything else.
If anything, there need to be painful-to-approach barriers to using foreign help for a while - to the point where it starts looking like the dotcom era for decades.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Mexicans not a race... So, not racist to want a wall protecting from illegal Mexican border jumpers.
Muslim is not a race... So, not racist to want strong immigration policy that protects against the radical elements of the religion.
Thanks. Now we know that strong immigration and border protections are not racist.
The whole point of the pause is to reassess the process to make sure we aren't letting in the bad ones like what has happened in Europe
The fact that you took the time to type this out instead of researching what the ban actually did is the worst thing about your entire comment.
Hint: his ban did nothing like this.
Hint2: immigrants & refugees are already extremely vetted.
Hint3: the fact that he didn't ban countries where actual terrorists have come from, to the US, says it's complete bullshit.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
https://www.merriam-webster.co...
Definition of non sequitur
1
: an inference (see inference 2) that does not follow from the premises (see 1premise 1); specifically : a fallacy resulting from a simple conversion of a universal affirmative (see 1affirmative 3) proposition or from the transposition of a condition and its consequent (see 1consequent 1)
2
: a statement (as a response) that does not follow logically from or is not clearly related to anything previously said
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
My hope is that the US and UK will be seen as an experiment in far right politics and withdrawal from globalization and movement of labour. Other countries will see how it works for those two before following them. And it will work out really badly and hopefully others won't make the same mistake.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
The fact the intent of the list was different than Trump's has no bearing on this? I'm trying to sort out this logic. It's almost as if you're trying to assert that Obama is somehow responsible for President Trump's EO. As others have pointed out, these countries are not responsible for attacks on US soil. Saudi Arabia and Egypt, however, did prove 9-11 hijackers, so one wonders why actual countries that have produced actual terrorists that have actually attacked US citizens on US soil were not added. It's almost as if the EO was poorly thought-out, was meant more as a bit of security theater, but it was so badly written and coordination with the departments needed to enforce it so mismanaged that it turned into a complete shit show.
The real problem with the travel ban, to my mind, isn't that it happened (that was stupid enough), but if you are going to implement such policies, then implement them. What we're seeing here isn't just nasty government, what we're seeing is just plain incompetent government.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
The idiots who are screaming about him didn't think he would actually follow through on the campaign promises he made. After all, what politician does that?
The the idiots scream because he isn't a politician. I expect they'll be screaming for 7 more years.
If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
And those people are going to get one of the most incompetent US administrations in history, which will likely materially damage the United States. In four years, unless Trump actually understands that being head of the executive branch is about more than people clapping when you sign Steve Bannon's orders, the whole thing is going to be a disaster. Well, at least Congress and the courts will get a good workout restraining this idiot.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
"Americans" are not a race. So, not racist.
Yet still, supporting them is being called racist.
Do you see the hypocrisy yet?
If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
...are single, sexy, unbirthable women.
The thing that makes someone a slave is that he knows that he can't leave. If someone knows that being fired means going back to his dangerous third world country, then he doesn't really have much freedom in choosing his employer. So yes, to some extent, it makes his job closer to slavery than yours.
Avantgarde Hebrew science fiction
You misunderstand the goal.
The goal is not a competent administration. The goal is to throw a Molotov cocktail at the status quo, because it has become obvious that no one in that status quo is listening.
Well you can read the actual executive order here: https://www.whitehouse.gov/the...
Which part of it is terribly conceived or poorly written? How was it horribly implemented? Currently there are 6 countries named that are in the midst of civil strife/war, and unable or unwilling to provide the data needed to verify info of travelers from their region. The 7th country is Iran. Not sure why they were selected, it might be because they're uncooperative, or it might be because they have a habit of chanting "Death to America" at large gatherings.
97 Companies... So close. Just three more, 100 companies, and the White House would get a set of free steak knives.
Who thinks that Trump really wanted to ban anyone, and who thinks that he wanted to demonstrate to his voters that he is good for what he promised, and now the evil tech companies are stopping him?
He can only win with such actions. In the eyes of his supporters, he is the good guy, whether someone stops him or not. And in the eyes of his enemies, there is nothing to lose anyway. And thanks for a century of the two-party-system, there aren't many left who are inbetween and could be convinced of joining his camp. You're either in it already, or you won't go there anyway.
Obama unsuccessfully tried the "election is over, let's all work together" approach. Trump has a completely different approach: "You voted against me, so I don't give a fuck what you think".
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Right now as a parent in technology I wouldn't want my kids in it even if they were interested. Back when I went in everyone was telling me that technology was so important everyone would need me to work for them. It didn't pan out that way. Tech companies got all kinds of ways around a fair job market. My kids are going into another industry that treats their workers better and must participate in a fair market.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
I work in the tech industry like many here on this board. I think opposing the order was the right thing. opposing it, is more than just about so called "cheap labor"
for the tech industry. for one it sets president, of what an executive order can or should do. this is not a dictatorship, we have laws and processess and they are not
being followed.
is it possible, that the H1B program is being abused? well yea, no shit sherlock. lets dig into that and find out where and why. blanket banning like was done,
was done without thought, logic or reasons. hell the places with the most exported terrorist where not on the lists which also line up nicely as places trump
does business odd hunh? so trump gets to make sure all the places he does business with are not listed, but everyone else just has to take it? not how it works
and the tech companys and states are fighting back.
welcome to the legal system...
-Nex6
THIS!!! Absolutely this!!! Also, if these countries are so vital to the companies in question, why doesn't Amazon open an office in Benghazi? Why doesn't Microsoft open an office in Aden? Why doesn't Google open an office in Baghdad? If people from all these countries are so safe that these companies consider it worth risking American lives for them, then why don't these companies open up branches in these countries, so that those people can contribute their skills, and also be near their families (not talking about the ones who have families here)
I'm not sure how not being able to recruit from those countries will harm their business significantly. Do Somalia and Yemen have a flourishing IT sector?
I believe GP is referring to top .0001% of people in terms of wealth, that backed Trump. Not .0001% of the population.
Uh, that's who the 97 companies represent. News flash: they didn't vote for Trump. You'd think after this last election we could get over the whole "only rich people vote for Republicans" idiocy, especially since the same people are claiming that only poor, stupid, blue collar self-defeating idiots voted for Trump.
Do you have ESP?
1. Import people with a wide variety of incompatible cultures to your country.
2. Actively discourage assimilation by promoting multiculturalism and denouncing any criticism of the incompatible culture as "racism."
3. When violence inevitably occurs, demand expanded police and surveillance powers to maintain "stability."
You lose your culture, are forced to live next to people who are at best indifferent to you and at worst want to kill you, lose your civil rights and get a police state, too. What's not to love?
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
See e.g. Yahoo Finance. One of the strongest according to the article.
They aren't asking for refugees to be let in, they are saying that a blanket ban, like the one Trump is trying to implement, to stop _anyone_ from those countries from entering the US, for _any_ reason, is hurting them.
/. these days, it used to be a good forum, but as soon as Trump / foreigners etc are mentioned in a story, the anti-H1B movement comes rushing in, and floods all comments to the point that its depressing to read them.
They do business in those countries, they need to sell their products there, and be able to support them, have teams there for the local markets, and now none of them can get to the US and be trained, they cant come for conferences, they cant assist in projects and so on... not to mention the negative image this gives US companies in not only the banned countries, but also in many others.
If you are from Iran, do really good research, then should you not be able to present that research in a conference, even if its in the US?
Its sad to see the comments on
I simply don't get how you can move from "cannot get our staff from abroad here for training and conferences" to "they should let refugees sleep in their homes".
Every company in every industry has to deal with these issues yet tech companies get a pass. I fail to see how my comment I'd non-sequitor. If they can't take the heat...
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Meanwhile over 100+ people killed in Paris from refugees from Syria, but you all are claiming since it hasn't happened in the US then there are no terrorist with the refugees, despite OVERWHELMING evidence in Europe of the opposite.
According to the BBC, none of the attackers were actually Syrian refugees. It is suspected that two of the attackers posed as Syrian refugees when they travelled to France, but they weren't from Syria and the majority of the attackers were either French or Belgian citizens. It seems likely that had Europe and/or France implemented a ban on travellers from Syria, those two attackers would have simply used different fake identities.
Fanatically anti-fanatical
If that is the goal, then it is sheer stupidity. Having the US government spiral into chaos domestically as it leaves a trail of ruin through foreign allies may disrupt the status quo, but it won't produce some sort of fantastic result.
As it is, it's pretty clear that this is going to be a stress test of the Constitution, because the courts, and likely a somewhat unwilling Congress, are now going to have to spend a lot of time minimizing the damage of the Trump administration. I wonder if the end result will in fact be a diminished Presidency.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
And what field is that precisely?
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Tech
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
He hasn't been following through on his campaign promise to stop terrorists from coming in. Instead he has picked a list of countries that would be easiest to sell as doing something while continuing to let those most likely, based on prior performance, to be terrorists.
If he was serious about terrorists, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan would be close to the top of the list and if this was about H1Bs, countries such as India would be on the list.
He has done a good job of alienating some of his base such as the Christian Syrian community with his ill thought out travel ban.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
Instead of bitching about h1b visas maybe it's time to realize the expectation of high salaries in that field should go away. In the 80s and 90s only a few had the basic skills. Now almost every child is exposed to computers at an early age. If someone is willing to do the job for less money while living in the US that seems like free market at work.
More fake news from the left. It isn't a BAN, it's a PAUSE, until people are CHECKED PROPERLY. But that's ok...the left is still ticked off the winner of the popular election didn't win, even though we've NEVER in the history of the USA ever elected someone via the popular election. That's not surprising since the Constitution and the real history of the USA isn't taught anymore. Poor little snowflakes...go to your safe space. Adults are in charge of government.
Basing the list on citizenship rather then residence seems poorly thought out. You have green card holders and other legitimate visa holders, who have been extremely vetted, some of whom are ready to become American citizens stopped at the border after going to a conference out of country vs Saudi Arabian citizens who have joined ISIS, been fighting in Syria etc for the last decade allowed in.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
Or it could be they lose their predatory hiring practices and want to unite against it? Your insult of "stupid people" IS a major reason Trump got elected. You do know that, right? You continuing to call everything you personally don't like "stupid" is not only immature and very ignorant, but it will ensure Trump gets a second term. Keep it up, and you'll get more of what you don't want.
If you are afraid of what the president might do, then he has too much power.
We have spent the past couple decades consolidating power up to the federal level and the presidency. It's time to give it back to the states and congress.
I understand feminism as a political movement that:
1) insists that women are victims, thus encouraging a victim mentality
2) insists that women deserve special treatment, thus encouraging an entitlement mentality.
If I am incorrect on these points, could you please correct me? No links to novels please, something trenchant, clear, and supported. Thanks.
Feminism has many faces, and with it many definitions. My understanding of feminism is not as dismissive as yours. IMHO, feminists:
(1) believe in social and political equality of the sexes; and
(2) acknowledge that women have been disadvantaged historically because of their gender.
And that means people of either gender can be, and are, feminists.
I trust the above is trenchant and clear. As for supported, well, you could spend a long time googling, but the Wikipedia article is not bad.
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
Past couple of decades? The process started with at least Jefferson, and probably the President most critical to the Presidency grand scope was Lincoln, whose actions in office, and whose ultimate defeat of the Confederacy made it very clear that the Federal Government was pre-eminent. Then we can talk about FDR, Eisenhower, Nixon and Reagan who all flexed federal muscle.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
But it wasn't illegals he disallowed in to the country, but also people that were legally allowed in to the USA. An example, those with green cards.
I know you're suggesting right in the boss's home, but be careful what you ask for.
Given that here in Canada there were many cases of people coming in on TFSW (Temp Foreign Service Workers) that *were* being housed in accommodation provided by the employer/manager, it makes things even worse. Bosses were playing fast-and-loose with rent VS pay. Screwing employees on rent. Cramming unreasonable/illegal numbers of people into a dwelling, and basically playing both employer and slumlord at the same time.
So, then there's this:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/0...
Across the United States, more than 15,000 doctors are from the seven Muslim-majority countries covered by the travel ban, according to Medicus, a firm that recruits doctors for hard-to-fill jobs.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
For Hint1: His ban was temporary implying that the process was to be reassessed in addition to the stated goals of the WH.
For Hint2, maybe you forgot the debacle a few years back how the FBI and Homeland Security secretaries could not guarantee the process would ensure no terrorists made it through. If they are already extremely vetted then what is the problem to ensure that that process is not behind the times? I have heard reports how that vetting process could not look at social media to see if they have ISIS sympathies. So far what I have heard is that prospective immigrants have to sit through a few extra hours of interviews... So what? Considering where they are coming from a few hours answering a few questions seems like cake. These were reports from NPR.
Hint3: The countries have ISIS operations. Are you saying ISIS is not terrorists? ISIS made it to Europe through the refugees why do you think they wouldn't make it to the US if they tried to game the immigration system?
The goal is not a competent administration. The goal is to throw a Molotov cocktail at the status quo, because it has become obvious that no one in that status quo is listening.
I'm sorry, but I don't think you're in touch with the bulk of Trump's power base, which both objects to the status quo and thinks that Trump is "a successful businessman" which they in turn think is "what America needs right now". They are not in touch with the facts that Trump is not a successful businessman — he is outperformed by the S&P 500, which should be a compelling argument even if you don't believe that he is a con artist. Or how about this one: he's been outperformed by Paris Hilton. I like that one even better.
Trump is a con artist, but those of his supporters who are willing to believe that also believe that this is a good thing, because it makes him effective. It hasn't dawned on them that this means that they can be getting conned because they are suffering from Dunning-Krueger and operating way above their respective pay grades as a result — literally.
Voting for Trump because of dissatisfaction with the status quo is, as has been stated previously in many circles, cutting off one's face to spite one's face, never mind the nose. Trump is the prime example of a rich white fat cat who abuses everyone around him; perhaps, in fact, the best example America has ever seen. Trump is America's most successful con artist. Odds are that there has never been a president who cared less for this country than Trump. Trump owns a visa mill of his very own; anyone who imagines that he's going to fix the problem is suffering a lack of everything but imagination.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
In a gentle way, Canada has done (1) and (2) pretty much since the 1950s. Certainly there has been some vigorous debate, but no widespread denunciation or violence.
Canada has not "lost" its culture, at least not due to multiculturalism. On the contrary, it has evolved into a mosaic of cultures from all over the world, but with a common theme of mutual respect and understanding.
Fearing the loss of your culture and imagining your neighbors want to kill you should be a wake-up call to reconsider what you think your culture really is.
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
List of countries that A) the Obama administration listed as dangerous prior and B) has ISIS operating within their borders. WTF is a good criteria if those aren't for a temporary immigration ban ?
The countries he listed had ISIS operating within the borders...We are at war with ISIS. Why is that not a good enough reason to suspend immigration until the processes has been vetted to ensure it isn't being gamed by an enemy whose operations and ideological extremism span across continents and national borders?
What is a good reason to suspend immigration from a country if a violent ideological enemy is not?
2. Actively discourage assimilation by promoting multiculturalism and denouncing any criticism of the incompatible culture as "racism."
[...]
You lose your culture, are forced to live next to people who are at best indifferent to you and at worst want to kill you, lose your civil rights and get a police state, too. What's not to love?
Don't worry, your people will be allowed to keep civil war reenactments, potpourri bathroom aerosols and stale, watery beer, but you may have to give up rolling coal.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
If you have an issue with the list of countries affected, you may want to take up with the adminstration who made the list (in 2015) or the president who signed it (Obama).
Trump put a temporary travel restriction on countries that Barak Hussein Obama identified as sources of terrorists.
If Trump can't make his own lists of countries, then he's probably not qualified to be president. Maybe if he went to those security briefings he's been ignoring, he'd have his own opinions and wouldn't have to rent someone else's.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
More specifically: U.S. Code, Title 8, Chapter 12, Subchapter II, Part II, p1182(f) 2013
> "Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate."
this is more of a political move by these companies and not real outrage over the policy. they don't like trump so even though multiple presidents have done it, and many more will do it.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
will be allowed to keep civil war reenactments
The political pendulum is swinging back to the right, but if it had gone any further left I seriously doubt civil war reenactments would have survived much longer. They too would be declared political incorrect and protested and shut down because the rebel uniforms and flags are far too problematic and each one constitutes a milliaggression (1000 microaggressions) against marginalized POC and probably the LGBTQRS7TU&V community also.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
Iran was also where the Chappell Hill shooter, Mahmoud Taheriazar, who killed a number of students there, was from. Normally, Iran would have to vet anyone that the US accepts, except that Iran is a theocratic terror regime, and so that would assume that Teheran would allow into the US Iranians who are genuinely unhappy w/ them, while blocking any Jihadists. There is no rational basis for believing that to be the case
Not just that, if someone from one of these countries who's let in shoots up a mall or any place in the US, which is a soft target, will the GP's French colleagues accept responsibility for what happened? Europeans or other non Americans have no business telling the US what its immigration policy should be, any more than they should tell the US whether Common Core ought to be retained.
A really nice article in National Review pointed this out last week - http://www.nationalreview.com/...
Except, back in reality, the Democrats are fighting DeVos because she's actually unqualified and appears corrupt enough that it's possible she might not get approved. Democrats may greatly disagree with Sessions, but I don't know of any evidence that's he's unqualified. People are certainly calling their senators about him, but there's no real hope of Republicans voting against him.
(The actual argument of that article seems to be "obviously charter schools are better, so the Democrats are acting against their own interests just like they accuse Republicans of doing". Ignoring, of course, the real-world evidence that charter schools as a national policy would be a disaster for the education of the children of anyone who isn't wealthy enough to send their children to private school.)
One problem is that Saudi Arabian, Egyptian, etc citizens who are in Syria, Iraq etc fighting with ISIS are still free to enter the USA. Considering that based on prior performance, those are the countries that are most likely to do a terrorist attack on the US, it seems counter productive to ban already vetted people such as Syrian Christians in favour of groups that are radicalized (if they're fighting with ISIS, they're radicalized).
Suspending issuing visas for that whole part of the world would seem a better move. At least it wouldn't fuck up green card holders and other residents, some of who are about to take their citizenship.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
That's rich. You call people racist while you frequently make bigoted statements and want a ban on anonymous political speech. You're such a manipulative asshole.
Why would you want assimilation? The very word you use, "assimilation", can be interpreted in a somewhat chilling way, suggesting that any immigrant must give up their culture and conform to some cultural norm that you choose. And which cultural norm exactly would you pick? Even if you restrict yourself to white European-descended Americans there is still a huge variation in the culture from the West Coast, to Midwest, to South, to the East Coast, New England, and more. America is a diverse country, and that diversity gives it strength, and you are foolish if you think that there even is a single American culture for immigrants to be assimilated into.
Also you talk about "losing your culture"... nobody is taking your culture away from you. Immigrants may bring their own culture, but your culture is still here too. And the cultures do meld and transform over time, but not instantly of course.
Something I find fascinating is the sheer political ineptitude of rolling up terrorism, immigration and refugees in to one big messy ball and acting against all three simultaneously, without a clear message about what the point was of all this disruption. Bringing people with valid visas into the action looks like a totally unnecessary own-goal. Do you think Google, Apple, Facebook and Microsoft would have teamed up together against a well-crafted, well-articulated action against possible terrorists coming into the country? Perhaps using an NSEERS-like system of profiling?
Nope, Trump, Bannon and Miller seem to think offending the maximum number of people possible would be helpful and the scale of the blow-back seems to show that was a miscalculation. (On the other hand, every other apparent miscalculation they made in the election campaign played out ok, so perhaps they really are the political Forrest Gumps they appear to be.)
'This writing business. Pencils and what-not. Over-rated if you ask me. Silly stuff. Nothing in it' - Eeyore
Desperate people often think they have nothing left to lose. Whether this is stupidity, or a wisdom, time will tell. I'm not so sure about pundits denouncing current trumps policy just yet. Despite how outrageous it is, it has little to no practical impact. The impact of wages >120k for H1B immigrants is much, much higher and the true point of contention.
On the other hand, if you look at the actual countries banned, and the actual number of workers involved in the ban (some of the tech giants publicized this number), you see that the impact is rather low (bulk of H1B tech immigration is asia, definitely not egypt). Basically you're jumping to conclusions based on petty gesture policy.
If you have an issue with the list of countries affected, you may want to take up with the adminstration who made the list (in 2015)
You have told me the very reason why we have issues with the list of countries. It's a list from a different time, used for a different purpose. The mere fact that it's the same list in this case is the problem especially given the wording of the EO which includes in Section 1: Purpose a long list of things that have nothing to do with the 7 countries selected.
You'd be a great defense lawyer.
trump is a fucking moron & this is a racist ploy. Other than than, you're spewing 'what-ifs'.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
Have you read the executive order? Because it sounds like you haven't and are basing your opinion based on what CNN says. Seriously... when you say " counter productive to ban already vetted people such as Syrian Christians." when the E.O. says: "Upon the resumption of USRAP admissions, the Secretary of State, in consultation with the Secretary of Homeland Security, is further directed to make changes, to the extent permitted by law, to prioritize refugee claims made by individuals on the basis of religious-based persecution, provided that the religion of the individual is a minority religion in the individual's country of nationality"
IOW, halt immigration take an assessment of the process and then when we start it back up prioritize those that are minorities instead of random lottery. Instead of Obama's policy that left those Syrian Christians you are concerned about to be butchered it gives them priority because they are a minority being persecuted because of their religion. They have waited years, what is a few more months at most? An inconvenience to be sure but so what?
Just read the damn thing before you go half cocked on an absurd opinion that has no basis in reality because CNN said "Muslim ban". Hint. It doesn't say Muslim any where. Most Muslims can still immigrate to the US.
I wonder if there are other reasons why Saudi Arabia or Egypt wasn't included on that list. I wonder if it has anything to do with where ISIS operates or the type of documentation they have on their citizens for visa applications or their diplomatic status. Stop conflating the issue. It's an apples to orange comparison and you know it. I bet they would have been included if the Obama administration labeled them dangerous like the others.
If people from all these countries are so safe that these companies consider it worth risking American lives for them
The people are safe - The countries aren't.
Why do you think families are desperate to leave Syria? Because it isn't safe. Doesn't mean the people who want to leave are unsafe.
That's why you want to hire smart people from Syria, not open an office in Syria.
Wrong. Hilary Clinton gave us Trump on a silver platter.
Strong immigration policy by not "banning" the country that has produced the most foreign terrorists that have made attacks on American soil. Is it a coincidence the countries that were banned just happen to not having business ties with Trump entities? When I saw the list and didn't see Saudi Arabia on it.. I knew it was a joke. Not to mention there has been far more American born terrorism in the US post 9/11.
I'm all for legal immigration. His ban punished people who legally immigrated.
As for illegal immigration from Latin America.. the best way to combat it is to turn their economies around. If we continue to piss on our poorer neighbors, they will find a way to sneak into our country even with a wall in place. Do I have a solution? No. It just seems like common sense to not make enemies of your neighbors.
"Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
I'll take that as a compliment. Law is interesting; it's where philosophy, ethics, morality, and free-will come crashing into reality in one blunt obtuse tool that makes liberal democratic civilization possible.
racist ploy
If you read the E.O. it doesn't sound bad... At all. Here are a few excerpts:
the United States must ensure that those admitted to this country do not bear hostile attitudes toward it and its founding principles
United States cannot, and should not, admit those who do not support the Constitution, or those who would place violent ideologies over American law
United States should not admit those who engage in acts of bigotry or hatred (including "honor" killings, other forms of violence against women, or the persecution of those who practice religions different from their own) or those who would oppress Americans of any race, gender, or sexual orientation.
It seems that if you don't do any of those things you will be fine. Those are not actions specific to one religion, race, or ideology. I honestly do not have a problem with any of those. In fact, I think it should the driving ethos of our immigration policy.
I must have missed the "what if's" I used. I reread the post and did not see any statement resembling "What if they X".
Our energy sector is addicted to oil, and our tech sector is addicted to cheap/abusable visa workers, and they lobby like hell to keep the status quo.
I cannot believe I'm saying this, but I hope T tells them shove it (at least in terms of worker visas in general, rather than cherry-pick nations.)
Table-ized A.I.
has been far more American born terrorism in the US post 9/11.
The difference being that if you are an American citizen you have constitutional protection. As opposed to refugees/immigrants whose admission is a priledge made available at the discretion of the federal government.
His ban punished people who legally immigrated.
Which is getting resolved by the courts and has already been amended to include green card holders and the like... This just in, governments are not perfect. News at 10. Not a lot of people fall into this category.
the best way to combat it is to turn their economies around. If we continue to piss on our poorer neighbors, they will find a way to sneak into our country even with a wall in place. Do I have a solution? No. It just seems like common sense to not make enemies of your neighbors.
I could agree with the sentiment. But do you understand why a lot of GOP'ers were upset that the previous administration refused to uphold immigration law and are now over reacting because of said refusal? As with a lot of issues, economics tends to be the answer but Latin American nations are sovereign nations.They are free to have crappy economies and that does not mean that we should ignore our immigration law because they are poor. And yes, I recognize US meddling in Latin America and I don't know the answer but at least understand the sentiment.
the country that has produced the most foreign terrorists that have made attacks on American soil
Yes, Saudi Arabia. The one with diplomatic relations with the US (ally). The one that has good documentation for visa applications. The one that does not have ISIS operating within its borders... The countries in the ban were listed as dangerous by the previous administration. Nothing is perfect and I you have an answer on what to do with an ally that does crap like Saudi Arabia I am all ears. They are apples and oranges.
They were listening, voters just didn't like the realistic solutions they proposed. Adapting to change is hard, and Trump promised to simply roll things back to the 1950s when manual labour jobs were plentiful and well paid, when men were manly and when the rest of the world was still rebuilding after WW2. It's a fantasy, but it's a comforting one.
Eventually people will be forced to face the truth, and they are going to come down hard.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Lawyers ensure the "US" multinational brands stay just enough in the USA to lobby the US government.
Using cheap foreign workers in the US is part of the wage lowering, profit making aspect of staying within the USA.
The multinational have long supply chains and enjoy a global jet set lifestyle. Low wages in the US support that profit growth.
They have forecasts depending on that cheap US foreign staff to keep profits flowing and generational investors happy.
If a cheap foreign worker costs as much as any US worker in the USA? That upsets the multinational who thought they had the US legal fix in and could just keep US wages low with decades of short term foreign workers.
So the multinationals who see their profits and projections failing are starting all kinds of astroturfing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... to secure their low cost workers.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
No but other Muslim and non-Muslim countries do. It's not a stretch to imagine that a tech company might very well want itself, its work force and the places it does business in to not be associated with these policies.
Correct MM. Have any of the rest of you taken any government classes, ever? Every branch of government continually attempts to expand their power. Every single one, every single time they are given the opportunity.
The problem is those people who view their party as the salvation of the country, rather than viewing the people of the country as their allies regardless of political affiliation. Why is this the problem? Because partisan sub-humans support government power expansion when it is done by the leaders they elect. Since they view their elected leader as a club with which to beat the rest of the population into submission to their dearly held principles, the more power they can invest in those leaders the better. One would think that it would be obvious to even the most rabidly partisan that this is incredibly short sighted and counterproductive.
One would think...
When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
They do, however, spend millions on ads that they think will sell their products, and it happens that "Yeah, we think Trump sucks too. Drink Budweiser" sells products. You can probably figure out why for yourself.
Because Democratic voters prefer craft ales?
sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
The economic impact of this temporary ban on tech companies is non-existent. Some of their employees may not be able to leave the country or reenter for a few months; that happens occasionally to H-1B visa holders for many reasons. Presidents and Congress have been screwing with immigrants' lives for many decades this way. These tech companies are posturing simply because these companies have been in bed politically with Democrats; it's partisanship and crony capitalism, nothing more.
Trump's proposed changes to the H-1B program actually would benefit those companies tremendously, because it would make it much easier for them to get H-1B visas for their employees; right now, a lot of those visas go to outsourcing companies that pay a pittance. These companies also stand to gain quite a bit from Trump's loosening of regulations. They may yet come around.
not this failed liberasl meme again. i know you will not read the truth and will just keep repeating what you are told but for others here is the truth. the meme on trump vs the stock market ignores the money he has given away to family, charities, etc it also ignores that the taxes paid.
No one was banned. The order was a temporary pause in admission of people that immigration had no way of figuring out who they were and what their reason for wanting to enter the county was. The pause was to establish better ways of identifying people before they entered the country with freedom to travel anywhere they wanted. There was no religious groups specified, only country of origin. Previously approved green cards were honored. Please read the material and stop listening to sources with TDS.
Bezos has spoken out against the ban in internal Amazon email to all employees, publicly in the Seattle Times, and has sent their lobbyists directly to the White House to complain.
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
How the fuck do you or anyone else know that the people in question are okay? To know they are safe, one would have to do a background check on them, and in case of these 7 countries, it would mean having to talk to their governments to find out more about what they did while they lived there. And that's where the crux is. Of these 7 countries, Libya, Somalia and Yemen have no functioning government, Iraq and Syria have governments that do not control huge portions of their territory, so it's impossible for the Assad regime for instance (even if we had diplomatic relations w/ them) to tell us whether someone from Raqqa was a part of ISIS or not. Iran is a downright hostile country, so it would make about as much sense to trust them to tell us which of their citizens are okay and which ones would be terrorists (although I suspect Obama would have taken them on their word), and Sudan is listed as a state sponsor of terrorism.
Isn't it always the victim's fault?
Fanatically anti-fanatical
Canada has not "lost" its culture, at least not due to multiculturalism. On the contrary, it has evolved into a mosaic of cultures from all over the world, but with a common theme of mutual respect and understanding.
Head into Brampton or Q-West and let me know if you still think that way. Watch out for the ghettos.
Om, nomnomnom...
In case you haven't noticed, both Trump and Musk are part of the "establishment".
entropy happens
the meme on trump vs the stock market ignores the money he has given away to family, charities, etc
[citation needed]
it also ignores that the taxes paid.
What taxes paid? Trump won't release his returns like he promised because he is a coward and a liar.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Yes, it's not because standards & not killing people, right?
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
How the fuck do you or anyone else know that the people in question are okay?
You look at them, you interview them, and you use common sense. You interview the family of these girls - If her dad is a dentist fleeing terror then you put a tick in the "not dangerous" box: .
...and much more.
http://bit.ly/2kOQsdf.
For God's sake, where did all this American cowardice come from? You're the strongest nation in the world. Read your Statue of "Liberty" and prove it.
And frankly, all this talk of 'safety' when it comes to suffering people is infuriating. If Trump truly wanted to make Americans "safe" he'd be pushing deep and meaningful gun control. He'd be supporting initiatives to reduce pollution and improve workplace safety in places like coal mines. He'd be pushing for clean drinking water in places like Flint, and working to improve highway safety. He'd beef up the FDA and inspect the food chain. He'd provide support to battered women and children.
Those are the things that make you unsafe - Not bogey-man refugee terrorists.
He demonstrates leadership in none of these things - Which proves he's not interested in keeping Americans 'safe' - He's just interested in keeping people like you scared.
Ha. Painting her the victim. That's pretty funny. But you are partly right, it wasn't only her fault, the DNC and the media that colluded with her and the DNC have the rest of the blame. And now we have The Donald. save us all.
That's pretty much what happened in the US in the first part of the Twentieth Century, and it seems to have worked fine.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Today's high school kids are no lazier than their counterparts going back in history. The circumstances are somewhat different.
There's limits on the number of MDs the US produces, and that's not based on the market. If there were no such limit, the high pay would get more people to study medicine, and we'd see the same sort of over and underproduction we see in any field that takes a long time to get into.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
The smart people screaming about him thought he would do stupid things while posturing as someone who keeps his campaign promises. So far, that looks on target, although I hadn't expected him to be quite so flagrant in giving government offices to people who don't care about Trump's voters.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Liar: the list of countries is not from the Obama administration. It was added by Congress to an appropriations bill.
The fact that ISIS is operating in those countries makes things pretty dire for people, leading to refugees. They need to be extensively vetted before coming to the US, and they are. We're not talking about additional vetting, which we probably don't need, but a block on people we're already pretty darn sure are harmless.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Were the people from those cultures incompatible with American culture, though? And weren't they treated like shit until they adapted themselves to American culture?
Compare and contrast with importing Islamic culture, which goes to war with every other culture it encounters including itself, and then a significant portion of our people who bend over backwards to avoid criticizing them or making them feel as if they need to change in any way.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
We'll see if those marketing teams still have a job when Budweiser can no longer sell a six pack to a working man who is damn tired of having to compete with the entire world.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
And they never will again after next quarter's reports.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Except, Budweiser sales are going down and they're losing market share after that ad. Democratic voters do prefer craft ales, and Republican Blue Collar workers now won't touch Bud with a 10 foot pole because drinking a Bud at their local bar will get them beat up.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Was that bill(s) (there were more than one) signed into law? Why would you argue that kind of semantic? Obama signed off on those provisions that were expanded with "countries of concern". He signed it and just like the ACA bears responsibility, for the most part (yes Congress is responsible too but it is the POTUS signature that turns a bill to law. )
You are being very pedantic and disingenuous if you think that is a "lie" because it was a law signed by Obama. i.e. his approval, support, and his execution of the law by his administration.
The fact that ISIS is operating in those countries makes things pretty dire for people, leading to refugees. They need to be extensively vetted before coming to the US, and they are. We're not talking about additional vetting, which we probably don't need, but a block on people we're already pretty darn sure are harmless.
Yes, it sucks for those people. Yes, there is vetting. Has that vetting kept up with the times? If so, why would the FBI acknowledge there is no basis to vet some Syrian refugees? The ban is temporary... What is wrong with taking stock into the process to ensure it has kept up with the times and methods used by nefarious individuals? Instead of acting like Germany I have no problem with the government reassessing our immigration processes.
There were mistakes but no government is perfect and they have started to rectify those mistakes by letting in green card holders and the like. What I have heard is that refugees directly affected by this have to go through some additional interviews and questions before immigrating... So what? An inconvenience to be sure but it sure as hell beats where they came from. It's also temporary for most of the countries save Syria which has no records, barely functioning government and civilian militants... We are at war there and there is a hostile government... I am sorry for those people but the world is a crappy place. There is nothing wrong with reassessing various processes that could vector extremism to the US.
When has it ever?
MAFIA
Casteism
AKA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Casteism
So when it was done repeatedly over the last 30 years with various countries, you were right there protesting. No? Guess what? These companies aren't trying to sell there, they're trying to stop Trump from cutting off their low-cost labor alternatives.
If you think that Syria or Yemen is in any financial situation to afford the software or hardware that these companies are peddling, you have no idea of exactly the state of their economy. If everything that's going on there stopped right now, at this exact moment. It would still be the better part of half a decade before there would be stable enough market that it wouldn't be a massive loss.
There's an actual reason why Iran is on such a highly restricted country list that even other muslim countries in the region refuse to allow any entry at all. If you need help figuring out why, I'd suggest checking out a newspaper or political journal. The fact that you're so happily pro-H1B, instead of having people who are already *in* the country retrained to do the job says a lot more.
Om, nomnomnom...
*and recognizes the existence and validity of contrary or divergent opinions.*
That sounds nice but doesn't work that way in practice, as political opportunists will use "tolerance" of behavior unacceptable to the dominant culture to declare such objections invalid. For instance, I'm opposed to illegal immigration because:
1) My culture values rule of law, and illegal immigrants are breaking the law.
2) The immigrants are exploited for cheap labor by greedy businesses who pay them below the minimum wage, do not follow labor protection laws, and keep them in line by threatening them with deportation. My culture values fair play and again, rule of law.
3) Some of the illegal immigrants commit crimes against my countrymen that would not have occurred if they had not been allowed in the country. My culture values justice, believes the purpose of government is to serve citizens and betrays them by refusing to enforce the laws passed to protect them, and values the lives of countrymen over the economic interest of foreigners and businesses.
4) 80% of the central American women and girls who cross the border illegally are raped during the crossing. My culture finds rape abhorrent and wants these crimes stopped by securing the border so people can only cross in a safe and authorized manner.
However, according to the media (coincidentally owned by businesses that profit from illegal immigration), I'm lying about each of these points, they are not valid opinions, and in fact I simply have an irrational, deranged hatred of Mexicans because I am an entity of pure evil wrapped in human flesh.
So your vision of multiculturalism doesn't matter when the only people who are chastised and told to "understand" the other cultures is the dominant culture.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
More knowledge of an organized boycott, but whatever.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
The list was a rider to an appropriations bill, so Obama could have vetoed it for a minor provision and let things go unfunded. The President can only sign or veto what Congress sends him, which unlike any other deliberative body in the US I'm aware of has no rule against non-germane amendments on bills, and he does not have a line-item veto. Given a generally hostile Congress, saying "the President approved of or had any influence on this rider that's not germane to the main bill because he signed it", is disingenuous. It doesn't rise to the level of pedantic.
The cnsnews.com article you site is from 2015. and applied to one country, not seven. The vetting process has been successful to the point that no immigrants from the countries listed have committed a terror killing in the US, unlike several other countries in the area that are not on the list. The fact that it was only an inconvenience is primarily due to people attacking the EO in court.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Some of those cultures were pretty foreign, yes. Consider the Chinese.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
He still signed it, approved it, and executed it. Even the appeals court arbitrating over the E.O. recognizes the "countries of concern" from the "previous administration". It was under Obamas administration that those countries were listed as a concern for terrorism. That is a fact that was used in crafting the language of the E.O. It is disingenuous because the E.O. was crafted with that precedent established by the Obama administration for listing those countries as a concern and barring travel.
If there is one instance there can be others. Syria was given special attention by the E.O. by halting indefinitely. While the other "countries of concern", according to Obama, were given a temporary halt to reassess the process. I am not sure what your point is. Has the vetting process changed since 2015? If not then the FBI's statements are still relevant.
I don't know, but there's been time to change it. I don't really know about the vetting process, except it's long and has been very successful. People keep complaining about it without telling me anything about it.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Four judges in a very left-leaning (and very un-American) district.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
No, they're fighting her because she runs afoul of all their Union campaign money, and their re-election ground game. They don't actually care.