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RSA: Ban On Booth Babes Has Been No Big Deal (networkworld.com)
netbuzz quotes a report from Network World: In March 2015, RSA Conference organizers made news by contractually insisting that vendors pitch their security wares without the help of "booth babes," a first such ban for the technology industry. Next week's event will be third under the new rules. With the use of "booth babes" long a source of contention -- and some would say embarrassment -- implementation of the ban has gone smoothly, according to RSA. "Overall I would say this has been received well by our exhibitors," says Sandra Toms, vice president and curator of the conference. "Several have thanked us for having a policy." If you compare the policy's contract language in 2015 with the language now used by Toms, you'll notice how much it has evolved and how it has been accepted by various stake-holders. Here's an excerpt from the "short Q&A" between Paul McNamara, news editor for Network World, and Toms: Has there been any need to enforce the code or have all exhibitors complied? "Enforce" always makes it sound like armed guards have come into play and dragged someone off the show floor. We share these guidelines with our exhibitors and we're clear that this is a policy that is expected to be acknowledged and complied with. We take our attendee experience seriously and expect our exhibitors to do the same. If we receive a complaint about a particular exhibitor, we will send someone over to the booth and examine the situation. If the attire matches our dress code, then they can proceed and we can explain to the attendee why that form of dress is allowed. If they are clearly in violation, we will ask them to change. This policy is equally applied to both men and women -- from Sumo wrestlers to scantily clad models.
RSA is security and cryptography focused. This rule makes especial sense given that many people are apparently willing to give up sex if it means they won't get hacked http://www.dailydot.com/layer8/password-security-survey/.
...babes! (the Russian Space Agency, not quite so much)
Just have booth babes of both genders. Equal Opportunity Oogling.
Table-ized A.I.
Just when I thought we were finally making progress on including more women in IT.
That's the breast... I mean best they can do?
#DeleteFacebook
aliteration is always admired
"a first such ban for the technology industry"
PAX has had such a ban since at least 2012. Unless video and computer games no longer count as technology!?
"No babes for you"
For the script kiddies its a Seinfeld reference
**Life is too short to be serious**
So, at the more hardcore geek conference (Supercomputing comes to mind), there has never really been an issue with booth babes for a simple reason: geeks are scared to talk to them. Every now and then a company will hire one, only to see a nice exclusion zone form around their booth. Sure, sales guys from other booths will stop by, but none of the intended audience will risk talking with an attractive female.
/s
nm
If the woman is knowledgeable in the area, and is not required to dress like a stripper to do the job, she can still do the job. It really isn't complicated.
Are you denying a woman the right to dress as she likes? Define dressing like a stripper in a manner that will accommodate all cultures.
Fascinating that the people who are demanding this are ending up acting exactly like cultures that demand that women dress in a specific and asexual manner for their religious values.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
A ban on booth babes would mean that the people in the booth are there because they have knowledge and information to offer rather than for their attractiveness. The summary makes it sound like the booth babes just wear more clothes, but they are still booth babes. Their primary purpose is to look nice and then refer people to those with actual knowledge. It's a sales tactic that seems to work but the push back against booth babes is that people want to be valued for their humanity rather than their sexuality. Of course this is somewhat of a case of being careful what you wish for. As somebody who has been said to "look like he knows what he's talking about" I can say that I wouldn't mind being valued as a sexual object but that's somewhat of a digression.
If there's a booth babe wearing little compared to man wearing a suit and tie a few feet away... what temperature do you set the thermostat to? This resembles a problem found on most dance floors including high school proms...
What next segregated booths?
Fichu with a brand on it to cover shoulders?
A policy on berthas and bolero styles? On that lappet or more guidance on the use of a modesty piece?
Everyone gets the same color of Zhongshan suit?
Or just go full bee keep suit?
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Trade floors are supposed to resemble a meritocracy... bringing in a booth babe just distracts from the next booth over. Better sales = worse product.
I gotta say to my younger geeks: "I'm so sorry dude, you missed out".
// went to more mainstream conferences in the 90s, booth babes still awesome but as I had a daughter kinda awkward
/// hit a couple CES and CTIA conferences in the 00's, booth babes same age as my daughter. awkward.
//// haven't been to a conference in 10 years, don't miss them, the travel hassles, the booth babes, the reports to upper management.
Then again, times change, my daughter is past the booth babe age but I would have hated for her to do that.
/ went to telemetry conferences in the 80s, the booth babes were awesome (I was in my 20s)
Load up your spank-bank from the internet like the rest of us! Yeesh, what'd we invent the internet for, anyway?
I don't often comment to or about how my co-workers look or don't look. I will break this rule now.
I work with some ladies that are simply DROP DEAD GORGEOUS. Off hand, there are easily two dozen. Of course, all of my co-workers are beautiful people, just not with movie star looks.
And all of them, every last one, is as at least as smart as I am and I think smarter. I'm no slouch but I know a quality mind when I meet one, and everyone, man, woman, or wookie, are top flight minds. Not to say there aren't a few I prefer not to be around because I think they are jerks, but they are SMART jerks.
So if you see ol buss error with a babe in the booth, keep in mind that babe is likely a lot smarter than you are.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
After all, they are now out of a job and probably have do some worse job instead. A great win indeed.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Doubling the number of booth babes at tech conferences?
They are only setting limits for the event they are running. The reason is to avoid having women being required to dress in a certain manner in order to get paid. They are running the event, they can set the rules for the event.
If I showed up and set up a stand to sell popcorn and they said no, does that mean that they're denying people the right to earn a living?
If a man showed up wearing only a Tarzan loincloth and was told that was not appropriate would it be fair to say that now they're denying men the right to dress as they like?
So MEN are now dictating what a woman can or cannot wear?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
*sputter* Sales .... meritocracy?
Next you're going to try to tell us that the better product should make the sale. That's crazy talk.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I think I can help you:
and is not required to dress like a stripper to do the job
See that word? It's VERY important. How do you think that word changes the meaning of the AC's sentence from your interpretation?
There's a host of other issues with booth-babe style exploitation, naturally, but you might not be ready for those just yet...
Explain how they are exploited. Are they kidnapped and forced to do this job? Forced at gunpoint? To me, booth babes are silly. But they are getting paid to do a legitimate job, not forced to do it, they pay taxes, and are not a burden to society. They are the victims of this, and just because for some warped reason, these women losing their jobs makes you feel good, perhaps some day, some one will celebrate when you lose your job . But hey, some folks become screaming angry at halloween costumes . Petty is as petty does. so celebrate!
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
They are only setting limits for the event they are running. The reason is to avoid having women being required to dress in a certain manner in order to get paid. They are running the event, they can set the rules for the event.
If I showed up and set up a stand to sell popcorn and they said no, does that mean that they're denying people the right to earn a living?
If a man showed up wearing only a Tarzan loincloth and was told that was not appropriate would it be fair to say that now they're denying men the right to dress as they like?
Wow, these things have changed a lot. I had no idea that the booth babes were wearing only loincloth and nothing else.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
No. Why? They are used to being exploited for an agenda, it's not like you have to ask them.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Make American boobs great again!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Yes, and that's what we need them for. Have you tried getting a sensible word spoken with managers and markedroids buzzing about and yelling over your head at the only technical person on the booth?
Besides, booth babes made it so much easier to identify the people worth talking to. If they leered at the girls from afar but didn't dare going closer than 10 feet - bingo.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
A good example is Vonage vs the other VoIP players... Vonage charges nearly twice as much for the same service because of their ad campaign.
And the only thing achieved was removing some jobs for women in the IT.
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If you would get fired for wearing certain attire at your job, a woman would similarly get fired for wearing similar attire. Companies would be sued out of existence if they did not have measurably similar standards for their dress code. Your claim is a complete fabrication.
There are plenty of women who want to model and make a very good living doing just that. In fact women make on average over 10 times more than men for modeling work. Face it: You wish to deny women the right to work in a job of their choosing and force them into STEM jobs. You are a misogynist who does not believe in a woman's liberty. Shame on you!
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
> If I showed up and set up a stand to sell popcorn and they said no, does that mean that they're denying people the right to earn a living?
Yes. They are in their absolute right to do so, but that doesn't change the fact you were denied the right to earn your living at their conference. Their conference, their rules, doesn't have to mean the rules don't suck for someone.
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And if she isn't knowledgeable? What jobs are there for her in the IT? The man will still get a job in (physical) security, due to good physical fitness. One woman will maybe occupy the one front desk vacancy in a 1000+ people unit, and the rest may get the job as cleaning staff. Certainly a step up from booth babes, right?
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Like I said, and you've just demonstrated, you're not ready for that just yet.
Do some reading on your own, if you think you can handle it.
Thank you for admitting that you have no argument, you merely disagree. Good luck with that. I challenge you to put forth a good argument. I am perhaps more ready than you could ever imagine. So far, you have provided nothing, is that all you have?
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
The one that always got me was the RSA booth at Blackhat - I mean, Blackhat is in VEGAS. If you want that sort of thing, you can get it with fewer lines any number of places. But one year they had people lining up to pose with women dressed in biker costumes at the RSA booth.
Seemed a little bit like bringing icecubes to Alaska.
Min
On the whole, I find that I prefer Slashdot posts to twitter ones because I don't get limited to 140 chars before
So they go from being exploited and paid to now being exploited and unpaid? An even greater win...
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Let them appeal to the Tumblr/Twitter crowd, I'm sure they all license RSA crypto.
PGP forever!
Our nation has people with many different lifestyles. I dislike the notion that we must always show deference to the more conservative types. I see nothing wrong with having string bikini models passing out literature or answering quotations about a product. Nudity or near nudity should not upset anyone including young children. I doubt that many people have not had a toddler walk by a TV when a very graphic scene was on the screen. the young ones show very little interest and don't appear to even notice such things going on. If they did and asked a difficult question one could simply say that some people like that sort of thing and that should be enough to cover the situation. The prudes simply have too much to say. For example when birth control pills became available many people fought like crazy to make them illegal. And even from their view point birth control stopped tens of millions of abortions. It really makes one wonder what the heck the prudes really want in life.
Nobody said that it has to improve anyone's life, only that we have to feel good about ourselves.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
If population reduction is that big if an issue for you, why are you here typing on the Internet? Which ideology are you really espousing, bigotry or a demand for depopulation?
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
Maybe ten years ago, I'd go to a tech conference and browse the vendor booths. And, typically, there'd be a man, dressed in a suit, surrounded by people asking questions, and a woman, in a dress, standing absolutely alone. So I'd go up to her to ask my question, and she would merely smile and direct me to the man. She was just a model hired to be eye-candy.
Nowadays, though, a much more typical situation is to have both a man and a woman in the booth, both dressed in jeans and t-shirts, and both engineers, with both answering questions. And you know what? This actually works much better.
So, no displaying excessive cleavage - I can accept that, but I have to note, there's no such thing as excessive cleavage :P However, no miniskirts, minidresses or shorts? I mean come on, we're not living in the Victorian era anymore. Enough is enough. You could just hand out large sacks at the entrance and mandate wearing them.
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
He forgot the "great" in that sentence.
Table-ized A.I.
Obviously not, it's just a sign that these conferences are "growing up" and getting more like the conferences of other industries.
There's a bit of a difference between having salesfolk who are dressed appropriately and look good or blatantly hiring a bunch of strippers that don't even strip.
I don't have anything against strippers but spending company money or taxpayers money to send people to see strippers that don't even strip instead of paying attention to the conference is a waste that disgusts me a bit. I don't want the people who sell me stuff to be jacking up the price of the thing they sell me just to pay for a bunch of people to go to such a junket.
Personally I think if people want to pay to see strippers that don't strip (or even better ones that do) they should do it out of their own pockets. They'll be helping the community.
http://www.tshirthell.com/funny-shirts/i-support-single-moms/
That is very sad to hear about LibreBoot, although it does seem a bit non sequitur. What does "not getting nookie" have to do with that?
...I thought the goal was to have "more women in tech"?
I'm going to guess that whereas the humanity within conventions was 80/20 male/female, it's probably dropped to 90/10 or further.
-Styopa
There seem to be two dominant viewpoints that come to the same conclusion for different reasons. Essentially these can be summarised as "Booth babes are an insult to women", and "Booth babes are an insult to customers"
That is to say, some people are offended by the idea that they're going to be so impressed by the hot chicks that they'll spend tens of thousands of dollars on a security product. I think a lot of the attendees agree with this viewpoint and are pretty neutral about the first. Although a lot of older, more conservative, (and paradoxically younger ultra-progressive) attendees will agree with the first.
Presumably there is a voice for "I like booth babes", but it's a pretty tricky argument to make compellingly. Anyone who claims they need them is basically claiming to have a bad product.
> If the attire matches our dress code, then they can proceed and we can explain to the attendee why that form of dress is allowed. If they are clearly in violation, we will ask them to change.
Basic message: you are not allowed to dress whatever you want in the West, unless you belong to a very particular religious group. In that case, heavens forbid if anyone tells you how to dress or you will feel the wrath of the SJWs.
What has actually happened is that the "conference organizers" reached a ratio of gay and/or feminist leadership that had enough voting authority to change the rules of the conference. Anyone who has attended a trade conference knows that outside if the task/product/skill focused breakout sessions, nobody really wants to toddle around in the vendor area without the opportunity to collect a lot of free swag and/or see the attractive women handing it out. Ever heard of OTC? They actually fly/bus in prostitutes for that conference.
> That's how it's done now as far as I can tell.
Yes - your analysis did seem a little limited. With a little thought, you might be able to infer that there must be subtleties that you haven't latched onto yet.
I just don't get why anyone cares at all...
Booth babes are an annoyance to me because most are not actually beautiful, they merely have some proportions that are generally considered desirable. Furthermore, they get in the way of finding information.
On the other side of that coin, they are pleasant to look at and they do not outright prevent finding out information... There is no harm being done.
So why the outrage? Booth babes are not a big deal. Let marketers try to use booth babes if they want. This really is a non-issue. I suspect some hysterical females and some testosterone challenged males are behind this absurdity. Just chill out people. Nobody makes it out alive.
"Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
I am usually not someone who agrees with the autistic screeching of the Social Justice Warriors, but I make an exception here. Technology conferences should be about technology, not naked chicks. Let them wiggle their behind on a sex expo or car show if they want. A real geek will be at the conference for the content, not the presentation anyway. The only ones who could be lured by babes are probably the salesmen and other non-IT people
Ummm...I manage IT for a relatively large software/hardware company. I attend RSA and related conferences to get a close-up look at the latest technologies. I really enjoy asking pointed questions...and getting diametrically opposed answers.
;>
Anyway, I digress. If Emma Stone is working the booth, I guarantee I will buy, because I am a guy, and the Force is strong in Emma.
===
So sue me.
He took the bus. It will be a long wait.
Only boring people are ever bored.
That's where this gets very gray in my opinion.
Typically booth babes don't dress like strippers, but what about a woman in IT who happens to be very good looking?
Can she go as long as she doesn't wear makeup? And if she does are people going to think her and her company are trying to get around the rules?
If so, what's to stop companies from getting very good looking women and just not letting them wear makeup and giving them some minimal instruction in IT?
Like affirmative action this is just too superficial of a requirement to make any meaningful difference.
I'm not sure what you're thinking, but those big ads in malls showing women in their underwear aren't trying to sell you anything. Men don't normally buy women's underwear. They're trying to sell underwear to women. The whole idea is to show ultra-beautiful women modeling this stuff, with the subconscious idea that buying these clothes will make a woman look more like the model. Many women want to be beautiful, so this appeal works.
You thinking VS is trying to sell something to you is rather disturbing actually; it shows that you have a massively inflated ego and think everything is all about you.
You think "brogrammers" are "noble"? LOL
Seems easy guys. Get some cute chicks, teach them the products and such, put them in a nice little short skirt. Boom, sales!
Been going on for years, the short skirt sale. That's how you end up with a piece of crap at a government agency.
--
.nosig
You are the one who complained about women and dress codes, not I. I think you need to re-read the thread in order so you can handle a simple conversation.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.