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Female Engineer Sues Tesla, Describing a Culture Of 'Pervasive Harassment' (theguardian.com)
A female engineer has spoken out about a discrimination lawsuit against Tesla that she filed last year. AJ Vandermeyden, 33, has accused Tesla of ignoring her claims of "pervasive harassment" and says she has suffered "mental distress" and "humiliation." From a report on The Guardian: Vandermeyden, 33, shared her story with the Guardian at a time when Silicon Valley is reeling from the explosive allegations of former Uber engineer Susan Fowler. Offering a rare public account of discrimination from a tech worker who remains employed at her company, Vandermeyden said her dedication to Tesla motivated her to advocate for fair treatment and reforms -- despite the serious risks she knows she faces for going public. "Until somebody stands up, nothing is going to change," she said in a recent interview, her first comments about a discrimination lawsuit she filed last year. "I'm an advocate of Tesla. I really do believe they are doing great things. That said, I can't turn a blind eye if there's something fundamentally wrong going on." Vandermeyden began at Tesla in 2013 and was eventually promoted to a manufacturing engineering position in the general assembly department, which consisted mostly of men and where she was paid less than male engineers whose work she directly took over, according to her complaint.
I'm not exactly surprised. In most cases where I see the office/design part interface with the shop/implementation part there is the potential for this kind of friction. Even in cases where harrassment is not of a sexual nature, it's common for simple vulgarity to creep in even if just as a reaction to the minor cuts and body wear and tear when working and the need for a certain amount of toughness in order to do the job.
Don't know enough about the salary aspect. She well might be underpaid becase of sexism, or she might have been brought in to do the job because they wanted someone that cost less in that role, and they didn't feel that the role justified the salary they previously paid.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
I'm assuming the culture at Tesla is similar to the culture at SpaceX, which is a culture of "fuck you, work 90 hour weeks because you're just here building your resume and I can work you to death if I want to", which is to say any pervasive harassment isn't a female problem, it's a cultural problem that is applied to every peon in the building. If that assumption holds true, the fact that she was paid less isn't because she's a girl, but because the market bears that salary for that position for a girl and Tesla can and will get away with anything it can to further its goals in the most cost effective way possible. Basically, it's the assassin saying "It's not personal, it's just business", which the courts tend to be okay with because it's not special treatment.
Forgive me, but past accusations haven't exactly primed me to believe this. If true, it's absolutely something that should be corrected, and she should be lauded for having the courage to make it public. ...however, if it's sour grapes because she didn't get the promotion she wanted, I wonder if we'll ever hear about it?
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
"which consisted mostly of men and where she was paid less than male engineers whose work she directly took over" This seems to imply this just because she is a woman, I'm a dude and I've been in this position myself, hell I've even been in a engineering management position and made less than the guys I was in charge of of.
Sure this all could just be because she's a woman, but there is at least a real possibility that there were other reasons contributing to her situation.
Ok, well, first off, this woman is not an "Engineer" in the sense that she holds any academic credentials or certifications (neither am I). The article clearly states she started working at Tesla in 2013, was *promoted* to vehicle assembly. She is an "assembly engineer" in the same way that a guy working on the floor at Ford making IC cars is.
After this, following claims that she was held to unreasonable performance standards and subject to sexual harassment on the shop floor, , she transfered to the "purchasing department", which Tesla was apparently glad to accomodate.
These are simple facts which may or may not be relevant to the case, which appears to me that Tesla hired this woman, and has been happy to allow her to shift roles in the company and build her skillset. Apparently, she just purchased a Model-S. I have worked in IT for 15 years, and I sure can't afford a Model-S. So, anyway, sounds like a pretty damned good job to me.
It is pretty common for people at that level not to understand more than basic comparison. It is very difficult to make ANY comparisons though without making that sort of assumption first. She should have kept the harassment separate from the allegations of unfair pay/advancement. The latter being found inaccurate will make her other claims suspect.
there is a shitton of evidence
Blog posts are not evidence. If you are aware of any actual evidence point it out.
Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
If they're under me, I already made my move!
BAM!
When I was a kid in HS we used to harass other drivers. 2 or 3 of us (separate cars) would pull up next to an old lady at a red light. On cue, we'd all start to reverse slowly, while watching the old lady freakout, thinking her brakes were letting her roll into traffic.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
>Therese Lawless, Vandermeyden’s lawyer,
> who represented former Reddit CEO Ellen Pao in her high-profile discrimination lawsuit against venture capital firm Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers.
Well, we know how that turned out for Ellen.
>Vandermeyden recently took out a hefty loan to buy the cheapest version of the Model S Tesla car and has a reservation for the upcoming Model 3
So after launching a potentially very expensive lawsuit you decide to get a "hefty" loan and buy a Model S? Huh.
Yes, they did. This is just your PC re-education brainwashing talking. When middle-aged Québecoise housewives come back from their cheap all-inclusive trips to Cuba, they all gush about how "real men" hit on them aggressively over there.
Try the same thing in Montreal? "RAPE CULTURE!!!!!!!!!"
she says she has
Does she or doesn't she have them? I can say I have a pet unicorn in my back yard, too.
(It's a double-twist since I have neither a unicorn nor, in fact, a back yard.)
Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
Agreed. Living in California. My wife is French. In her own words "most men here don't seem to have any balls" Its amazing how many guys are afraid to look at and try to interact with women (regardless if they are married or single); so many US men have been conditioned to be soft/nurturing types. And women have become conditioned to believe any male interaction is harassment. However, many women actually like guys who act like men and give women attention. Not talking about the attention from aggressive alpha-males who are macho and groping. Rather, guys who understand and appreciate that women are different than men and rejoice in the feminine side.
Power imbalance.
When one person wields authority over another, there is both a temptation to abuse that power, and a temptation on the part of the underling to acquiesce to "requests" from above to avoid retribution. Even if the boss genuinely has no intention of coercion, the underling can't know that for certain, so it's best to tread *very* carefully around such things, or better yet avoid them altogether.
Because even if there is in fact mutual interest - it's going to be almost impossible to keep your professional and private lives separate. Especially when one relationship ends. How would you like your ex being in a position to fire you and tarnish your professional reputation? Or your lover being required to fire you for unrelated reasons? You're both going to have to possess near-superhuman reserves of levelheadedness and emotional compartmentalization for that not to get ugly fast.
I mean sure, if you meet an underling/boss where things just "click" powerfully, maybe it's worth the risk. But if you're smart, you'll make transferring one of you to break the chain of command a very high priority, because it's quite likely to sour both your personal and professional relationship otherwise.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
I have been working in the US for several years, and I have noticed this dangerous trend of constantly labeling as misogynist or racist behavior anything that targets a woman or a minority for things that have nothing to do with race or gender. As an outsider (I am from Europe, and worked in Asia), I can say that nowhere I have seen such an obsession with these two topics. If a white person sucks, and get fired, you talk about the actual causes of the firing. If it's a woman or a minority doesn't get hired, or get fired, it's often sexism and racism. I am sure there are real cases of racism and maybe even sexism, but this constant and indiscriminate wolf-crying is going to delegitimize real victims and actually make people hire fewer of these people.
If I were to hire in this country, I'd be damn sure not to hire a woman or a minority which had a background in social justice (even a blog post or some classes in college would be a no go). There is just a chance that the person is some sort of fanatic. It sounds awful, but from what I can tell that equates to having a ticking bomb ready to explode under my ass. I don't care what your race or your ethnicity is, if shit hits the fan bad things may happen, and the last thing I would want is to have a lawsuit for discrimination and a wave of bad publicity for my business. Aww, yes, I am a such an awful person. Well, sorry, and welcome to the real world.
from the article:
She is hopeful her lawsuit and public comments wonâ(TM)t end her career at a company she loves.
Would a sane person really think that suing the company they work for won't impact their future with the company?
I agree.
Just keep in mind that pretty much every woman out there has faced at least a few, possibly many, shady situations where she has had a legitimate reason to fear the possibility of real harm from a man, and that has skewed her perceptions. (Humans are prey animals, over-generalizing threats is what we do best)
Make sure your attempt is done in consideration of that, and can't be taken as a threat, otherwise you're walking a fine line of with assault charges. And perhaps more importantly to you - shooting yourself in the foot before you even begin.
Also, be a F-ing professional and don't shit where you work. Work relationships are usually a bad idea anyway. If you haven't already established a good rapport with a woman there, and genuinely think that she might be interested in more, then don't complicate both your lives by making unwelcome advances. And if you just can't resist the temptation, and she shoots you down, drop it. Trying to pressure someone into something they don't want is harassment, pure and simple.
And for $deity's sake *definitely* don't get involved with anyone in your chain of command, the potential for abuse and complications are far too high.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Who has the power here?
No no. Sexual harassment is a very specific kind of action and although it seems like the accuser has all the say about this, in most places I've worked there where clearly defined parameters necessary to establish that harassment actually took place. In order for it to be harassment it must be unwanted behavior that is either obviously harassing or behavior that continues AFTER it was communicated it was unwelcome.
Asking a peer out on a date, once, is not harassment. Continuing to ask after being told to stop asking IS harassment. Giving complements on appearance or dress is not harassment, unless it's communicated that it's unwelcome. Telling off color jokes *might* be harassment if the joke is obviously inappropriate for the office, continuing to do so after somebody asks you to stop IS a problem.
The biggest issue most folks have understanding this is with manager subordinate relationships. This is where things get dicey at times because the subordinate may not feel free to object. The smart manager stays clear of such entanglements and complications by making it a policy NOT to fraternize with the lower ranks. It is here where most of the serious mistakes and career ending events happen. Don't be stupid and don't give a chance for any false accusations to gain root by always having your guard up. Have "private" meetings in public places, offices with windows or don't close your door, make sure your office has windows and if you have an admin that they can observe what's happening in your office. DON'T socialize ALONE with your subordinate, but always make sure there is a group or other parties there. Also, if you catch wind of ANY inappropriate possibly harassing behavior among your subordinates, dig out the HR mandated training because it didn't take the first time and DEAL with the behavior BEFORE it gets out of hand. Project professional behavior and expect the same.
It's not hard, just don't be stupid, keep it professional and if you are the boss, keep witnesses around when dealing with subordinates.
If you do these things: 1. Keep things professional, 2. Stop any behavior when asked, 3. keep your interactions with subordinates appropriate and in public view, you won't have an issue when HR receives a complaint. If you DO have an issue and you where not caught being stupid, then you need to bail anyway because HR is messed up where you work.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101