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Satellite Navigation 'Switches Off' Parts of Brain Used For Navigation, Study Finds (scientificamerican.com)

A new study published today in the journal Nature Communications reveals some of the drawbacks of using satellite navigation (SatNav) technology. After scanning the brains of 24 volunteers as they explored a simulation through the streets of London's Soho district, researchers from the University of London found that listening to a satellite navigation's instructions "switches off" activity in parts of the brain used for navigation. Scientific American reports: The researchers found that a brain structure called the hippocampus, which is involved in both memory and spatial navigation, appears to encode two different maps of the environment: One tracks the distance to the final destination as the crow flies and is encoded by the frontal region of the hippocampus, the other tracks the "true path" to the goal and is encoded by its rear region. During the navigation tasks, the hippocampus acts like a flexible guidance system, flipping between these two maps according to changing demands. Activity in the hippocampal rear region acts like a homing signal, increasing as the goal gets closer. Analysis of the brain-scanning data revealed activity in the rear right of the hippocampus increased whenever the participants entered a new street while navigating. It also varied with the number of new path options available. The more alternatives there were, the greater the brain activity. The researchers also found that activity in the front of the hippocampus was associated with a property called centrality, defined by the proximity of each new street to the center of the network. Further, they observed activity in the participants' prefrontal cortices when they were forced to make a detour and had to replan their route -- and this, too, increased in relation to the number of options available. Intriguingly, when participants followed SatNav instructions, however, brain activity in these regions "switched off." Together, the new findings suggest the rear portion of the hippocampus reactivates spatial memories of possible navigation paths, with more available paths evoking more activity, and that the prefrontal cortex may contribute to path-planning by searching though different route options and selecting the best one.

158 comments

  1. Maps technology is lost... by Zemran · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Two of my friends run a courier company and I have found that most of their drivers actually cannot understand how to use a map. When talking to them I tend to use map related references but today, they just listen to their satnavs and cannot understand how maps work. They have trouble knowing where they are in real terms although they can tell you generally by using the satnav.

    --
    I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
    1. Re:Maps technology is lost... by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      This is the reality of augmented biology, just like the testosterone producing organs shrink when taking IV steroids, the navigation parts of the brain will shrink if all you do is rely on SatNav to find your way.

    2. Re:Maps technology is lost... by easyTree · · Score: 2

      I recall years ago, there was speculation that non PDA-using man's newly-formed friendship with the canine species led to 'tracking prey via smell' as a task being offloaded to the dogs - leaving spare capacity for the brain to develop into PDA-using man.

      As far as getting from A to B - the drivers are as involved as they need to be.

    3. Re: Maps technology is lost... by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 2

      I'm amazed this needed to be studied. Still remember the first time I rented a GPS on a business trip. 2 days I to the trip it was clear as day I had no idea how I got from A to B. The GPS just handled it. The converse though is interactive apps like Waze...Where I monitor whether it's accurate or not. Or just letting it lead you and learning side roads as a result. Giveth, taketh and maybe giveth back again

      --
      People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
    4. Re: Maps technology is lost... by Cramer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Exactly. They really had to research that the parts of the brain that handle navigation aren't active when we aren't navigating?!? That's part of the reason we use a GPS in the first place... so we don't have to think about it. (the key reason being, we don't have a clue where the hell we're going.)

    5. Re: Maps technology is lost... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No kidding, I would hazard a guess that part of the brain is inactive when your passenger is giving you directions too. It isn't some evil technology rotting your brain with microwaves...

    6. Re: Maps technology is lost... by dwywit · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yeah, but - use it or lose it. I'm scared about *anything* that reduces our cognitive ability/ies.

      And it's not so much that we don't have a clue where the hell we're going, it's more that we don't give a damn to find out, when the technology will take care of it.

      Fair enough, I suppose, except when the technology proves unreliable cough*apple maps* cough.

      --
      They sentenced me to twenty years of boredom
    7. Re:Maps technology is lost... by Archtech · · Score: 2

      You can never be sure how much of those effects is cultural, and how much is just plain old-fashioned stupidity. Back in 1976 or thereabouts I went into a shop in London (England) to buy an alarm clock/radio. Having found one I liked, with the added attraction of a 25% discount, I told a young shop assistant that I'd like to buy it.

      The sticker price was £30, with a 25% discount. He got out a calculator, played around with it for a while, then announced that I had to pay £34.81. I had to call the manager to get it sorted out. The young fellow didn't understand that a discount meant "less", not "more". I'm not altogether convinced that he even understood that £34.81 was more than £30.

      And I bet he never used a computer outside the store.

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    8. Re: Maps technology is lost... by peragrin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It isn't losing cognitive ability, it is paying attention to what is going on.

      I bet if you took that exact same group and gave them a guide who gave them directions all the time the exact same situation would develop.

      I had a guide for a hiking trip I did and while I can recreate parts of the trip from memory it is only the parts where I had studied the map of where we were and when.

      People are lazy. If they don't have to think about something they won't.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    9. Re:Maps technology is lost... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      We bought a new house last year and it was a few months before it was on most maps[1]. The number of delivery drivers that got lost was incredible. We gave them clear directions from the nearest main road, but most of them couldn't manage to follow them. Our road is just past a large office block and so all they needed to do was get to that office building (been there for decades, on all of the maps) and then follow the road around. We also told them which turning to take off the road that led to that one. It appears that most of them could not read street signs and didn't know whether they were heading towards or away from the city centre.

      [1] OpenStreetMap had it before we looked at it, Google still doesn't. I still find the comment that OSM is a parody from the Google Maps lead amusing - apparently looking pretty is far more important than having accurate data.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    10. Re:Maps technology is lost... by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      And in this particular case, you calculate the end price in your mind quicker than you can type into a calculator.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    11. Re:Maps technology is lost... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This is no surprise - and was discovered long before satnav. If you ride with a navigator who always tell you to turn right or left, you don't learn the route. Doesn't matter if it is a satnav unit, a navigator person with a paper map, or a husband.

    12. Re: Maps technology is lost... by jwhyche · · Score: 2

      This actually makes perfect sense now that I think about it. I used my gps to find my new job. Three months later I was still using it to find where I worked. I use my phones gps all the time to get around memphis. I doubt I could find any place with out it. But my home town, my first time back there in 10 years and I knew where every place was.

      --
      I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
    13. Re:Maps technology is lost... by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

      This is the reality of augmented biology, just like the testosterone producing organs shrink when taking IV steroids, the navigation parts of the brain will shrink if all you do is rely on SatNav to find your way.

      I dunno. Mental direction mapping is not something that is universal. While I can play the old "Which direction does the sun rise on in our new house?" game with my wife, and while otherwise brilliant, she falls for it - I can use a GPS for directions once, and if I need to go that way again, I don't even need to turn the device on. If it made people worse, I wouldn't be able to navigate myself any more.

      This study is deeply flawed. Their test subjects need to start out with a good sense of direction, and need to understand that a GPS navigation system always needs a reality check. Otherwise, it's a dead lock that the results will be what they concluded.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    14. Re: Maps technology is lost... by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Exactly. They really had to research that the parts of the brain that handle navigation aren't active when we aren't navigating?!? That's part of the reason we use a GPS in the first place... so we don't have to think about it. (the key reason being, we don't have a clue where the hell we're going.)

      Bad research too. Road sign technology with arrows telling you which way to turn has done away with the need for compasses and astrolabes too. It isn't electronics, but it is a method of making travelling much easier. So is GPS guidance.

      I really don't buy this study. Because it isn't terribly definitive. In order to come up with a real conclusion, you would need people who have good mental mapping abilities, because a fair subset of the population has no ability, or a cockeyed one (think of the people who when giving you directions, use things like "Go a ways past the tree that was struck by lightning in 1985, or was it 1990 - then there's a lime green car at Bills house - I think it's a white - no maybe light blue house".

      Then another important issue is the reality check. GPS isn't infallable, yet people act like it is. Regardless, I can and do drive halfway across the country and use GPS a lot. I can still return or head back without the GPS. If this study were remotely true, I would not be able to do that now.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    15. Re:Maps technology is lost... by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2

      apparently looking pretty is far more important than having accurate data.

      yeah, most people believe that. People figure if they put very little effort into ease-of-use (aka aesthetics) they probably put very little effort into accuracy. It's not true, but humans are the desired userbase and humans use such heuristics.

      Everybody has been telling OSM that for a decade but they refuse to accept that reality, so the userbase remains small. It's a shame to cede the territory to Google.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    16. Re:Maps technology is lost... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      I tried to order a taxi once. I was in front of an extremely brightly coloured restaurant and opposite a large supermarket - the only one on that street. I knew the name of the street, and it's a quarter of a mile long at most.

      No, we need a house number.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    17. Re:Maps technology is lost... by Golddess · · Score: 2

      If you ride with a navigator who always tell you to turn right or left, you don't learn the route.

      Currently, I always use a SatNav system to get anywhere new. Yet after a few trips, I find that I can make the trip without the SatNav. But in my younger years I did have to rely on a paper map, so maybe that is why I eventually learn it, and someone who has never been without SatNav would never learn the route.

      --
      "I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
    18. Re: Maps technology is lost... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but - use it or lose it. I'm scared about *anything* that reduces our cognitive ability/ies.

      And it's not so much that we don't have a clue where the hell we're going, it's more that we don't give a damn to find out, when the technology will take care of it.

      Fair enough, I suppose, except when the technology proves unreliable cough*apple maps* cough.

      So I take it you pulp the wood to make the paper yourself, measure the inclination of the sun, use a lodestone you gather yourself to magnitize the needle you forged yourself to determine north, and do the trigonometry long-hand to navigate then? No? you use mass produced maps and tools based on centuries of technology the underlying skills of which you never developed yourself? fancy that.

    19. Re:Maps technology is lost... by Golddess · · Score: 1

      Since we're talking about something that happened tens of thousands or maybe hundreds of thousands of years ago, I'm guessing that "PDA" does not refer to "Personal Digital Assistant". "Public Displays of Affection" also does not seem to make sense. So what does PDA mean in this context?

      --
      "I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
    20. Re:Maps technology is lost... by JoeMerchant · · Score: 2

      I'm pretty good with direction finding, but I do find myself using satnav as a crutch mostly for final approach problems in urban areas, and whereas I might have to study a map once to plan a route and execute it, if I'm using satnav I might have to drive the route 2 or 3 times to get the same confidence in repeating the exercise as I would for map study plus one execution - no surprise, the study step has been removed, so learning should be expected to be less on the first trip.

      What also makes a difference in my route learning is whether I'm just navigating myself to a location, or if I'm listening to satnav for directions while planning some future event with my wife and managing the children's behavior in the back seat, etc. - again, satnav will handle the navigation for me well enough, even if I'm not paying attention to what it's doing - and no surprise if I learn less while 3 other things are going on.

    21. Re: Maps technology is lost... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      People are lazy. If they don't have to think about something they won't.

      It's not that people are lazy, it's that people have finite attention and need to divide it among a whole lot of tasks. Quite often I find myself glad that I don't need to do something complicated like read place names and signs while trying to navigate a busy road.

    22. Re:Maps technology is lost... by easyTree · · Score: 1

      Yeah, PDA, precursor of today's 'phones'.

      For me, augmentation by (phone) marks the beginning of the next stage of evolution as yet more mundane brain-work is offloaded to a personal handheld computer.

    23. Re: Maps technology is lost... by Dayze!Confused · · Score: 1

      But in the case of a passenger giving you directions they don't have to give you directions for the entire route. As you learn the route you can rely on the passenger less. It's not quite as easy to have the GPS give only the directions that you don't know yet, it's either on or off.

      --
      "All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." [Thomas Jefferson]
    24. Re: Maps technology is lost... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Side note: Never go hiking in the backcountry (with or without a guide) without having studied a map (and carry that same map with you) over the overall area you'll be hiking. If/When you get lost or separated from the path/group, you'll at least know things like where a road or town might be in a general directional sense and then you can find your way out. Otherwise, count on dying in the backcountry.

    25. Re: Maps technology is lost... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I used actual maps, I computed numbers of streets versus names.

      Off the highway, 3rd right, 2nd left, 3rd left, 1st right, etc.

      I'd hang it on a postit note on my RV mirror, then just count.

    26. Re: Maps technology is lost... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know. I've found that following the purple line is oft-times a bad idea. Some times the routing does stupid things and the device kicks itself into what I like to call "Scenic-route mode". Where it takes you on the most convoluted path ever. If you miss a turn, for example, it often wants to find some road based way to turn you around, even if that road and the next turn is 20 miles away. You pay less attention to where you are and where you are going and more attention to the voice.

      Waze is better than most, but I still find it gets tossed for a loop with out of normal situation.

      And why the hell doesn't a single app have a "reverse last route" feature? If I'm trying to navigate from Boston to Savannah and avoid I95 at all costs, I want to do the same on the way back. Why?!

  2. I've noticed that, but something else interesting by Whatsisname · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I have noticed this behavior myself, and I used the same phrase, that my brain essentially shuts off when the computerized directions are being given.

    What's weird though, is that the same thing doesn't seem to happen if I have an actual person giving me directions. If I listen to the computer, I can't remember shit. If a passenger looks at the map and does essentially the same function, I can remember everything fine and well. I wonder what the difference is between the two that results in such a different neurological outcome.

  3. Re:I've noticed that, but something else interesti by lindseyp · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I prefer to have the map on the screen with a north-up orientation no matter which way I'm travelling. I find it helps me keep my bearings and learn routes rather than surrender to the machine's step-by-step instructrions.

    --
    j'ai découvert une démonstration vraiment admirable (de ce théorème général) que cette si
  4. It's so unnecessary in your own city by TWX · · Score: 1

    I started out my career as a field service tech doing consulting work all over town. "Town," was a metro area of approximately 900 square miles. The city has a grid system with numbered streets running one direction and named streets running the other, and the numbered streets corresponded with the hundreds-digit of street address numbers on the named streets. If a business had the address 7501 W. Broadway, that meant it was on the South side of Broadway, just West of 75th Avenue.

    It was a little bit harder for addresses on numbered streets, but every 800 address numbers is another mile, so if one knows where the initial origin road is and knows the names of all the one-mile major roads, one can figure out how far north or south an address is and know which major roads it is between.

    It is also a little harder for the minor neighborhood streets, but if one asked someone at the destination which major named streets one's street was on, it was still easy to find.

    There really isn't any reason to use navigation in this city if you live here, it's easy to navigate on your own and without the electronic distraction.

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    1. Re: It's so unnecessary in your own city by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Phoenix?

    2. Re:It's so unnecessary in your own city by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Salt Lake City is my guess.

      It's the easiest place to get around I have ever seen, and I have driven in every major city in the US.

  5. Abandoning Time-Worn Processes Leads to Atrophy by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Scientists determined that those people who made use of machine washing rather than hand washing had diminished hand strength and neurological motor communication necessary for fine motor control. Seamstresses who bought thread rather than using the spinning jenny were similarly impaired. But worst off were teamsters who used the internal combustion trucks rather than teams of horses and used forklifts and other mechanical devices rather than loading their vehicles by hand. Their overall body strength was much reduced.

    1. Re:Abandoning Time-Worn Processes Leads to Atrophy by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      But as far as I can tell, they're not making any statement about long term change at all - it's just that when you're using navigation assistance, the part of your brain which would otherwise handle that itself simply turns off.

      I'm not sure what the problem is - other than the fact that, under those circumstances, your brain is not learning the route, I guess. And if that's what they're saying, I take issue with that. I've used Waze to get me to locations I've never visited, then subsequently been able to drive there unassisted.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    2. Re:Abandoning Time-Worn Processes Leads to Atrophy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Interestingly, the increased use of the thumb has lead to the younger generation more likely to use their thumb to press doorbells than the forefinger favoured by older people.
      This, it seems has been attributed to their increased dexterity due to the prevalence of texting.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thumb_tribe

    3. Re:Abandoning Time-Worn Processes Leads to Atrophy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You take issue with that you might be different from most people they studied?

  6. Old Problem by Idou · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Socrates on books:

    If men learn this, it will implant forgetfulness in their souls; they will cease to exercise memory because they rely on that which is written, calling things to remembrance no longer from within themselves, but by means of external marks.

    There are plenty of problems left in this world to apply unused brain tissue to. . . Freeing up brain matter to be applied to new problems is how we progress as a species.

    --
    Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
    1. Re:Old Problem by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      It also makes for hilarious anecdotes when you steal somebody's navigator and turn them loose in the woods.

    2. Re:Old Problem by mykepredko · · Score: 1

      That's pretty awful of you stealing somebody's $80,000 SUV and then laughing about it after dumping them in the woods.

      Who are you, Tony Soprano?

    3. Re: Old Problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Came here to say this, thanks for doing so more eloquently. If I'm traveling somewhere I'm already familiar, I already turn off part of my brain. For me, sat nav is the equivalent of being somewhat familiar with every possible destination. I still need to think, but not nearly as much. It augments me too. I'm free to notice the traffic jam 2 miles ahead and start easing offâ the pedal before the brake lights are even visible, or preemptively route around it to ease congestion for everyone.

    4. Re:Old Problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      New problems... like Facebook and Slashdot comments.

  7. Re:I've noticed that, but something else interesti by whoever57 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Since our brains have to multitask when driving, perhaps we simply drop the redundant task?

    Perhaps, if you have a passenger sitting there with a map, you don't fully trust them?

    --
    The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
  8. Re: Abandoning Time-Worn Processes Leads to Atroph by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    indeed. use it or lossit but if its not really neccissary does it matter. theres all kinds of things i do not know how to do and do not need and a lot of things that i allow others or tools to do.

  9. Jobs Outsourced. Now Also Brains by pipingguy · · Score: 3, Funny

    Computers is making us stupids.

  10. Re:I've noticed that, but something else interesti by JoeMerchant · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You don't trust the person, the SatNav is there to guide you through missed turns, traffic jams ahead, and generally is a superior navigator to anyone you've ever had in the passenger seat reading a map, because the SatNav has access to more and better information.

  11. Re:I've noticed that, but something else interesti by David_Hart · · Score: 1

    I prefer to have the map on the screen with a north-up orientation no matter which way I'm travelling. I find it helps me keep my bearings and learn routes rather than surrender to the machine's step-by-step instructrions.

    That's one way to do it, I guess. Personally, I just occasionally glance at the direction information on the electronic compass in my car (i.e. the compass direction that I am heading). For me, though, the biggest revelation was when I looked up how the US does route numbering. Routes that end in odd numbers are North South routes and routes that end in even numbers are East-West routes. It doesn't help much on side roads but once on major roads it helps you get close.

  12. Handwriting is more appropriate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Perhaps handwriting vs typewriting is a better choice for that. You lose the ability to write if you switch to typewriters.

    I can barely write legible all caps at this point, but typing is second nature.

    1. Re:Handwriting is more appropriate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you're an MD, right?

  13. Re:I've noticed that, but something else interesti by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 1

    I'm the same. When I'm out riding on my bile, I just go a hundred or so miles in no particular pattern, when I use the gps on for the return, I watch the map.

    I can still re-create my memorable rides without sat nav. But if I had to describe where the blueberry farm in Indiana is that I ride to, listening to me telling you that turning left at the funny farm house, going to the long drive past another farm, watch for the dukes of hazard bridge, cross that and follow the signs won't help you.

    --
    _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
  14. Re:I've noticed that, but something else interesti by s.petry · · Score: 2

    Oh no, as GP stated I noticed the same thing and now try not to ever use map assists. Emergency issues are different in my opinion.

    I happened to move to a new State 5/6 years ago. I kept using Nav and could not find crap even after I had been there one or two times. In the past, I could get back to a place I found once using maps, including other States and Cities. I read a similar report to this and pretty quickly started using the computer to get the map and make the route, but no assist in when driving. What a huge difference it made in a few months time.

    I think the early reports of this were poo-pooed by techies as conspiracy theory nonsense, accusing people of reporting the experiences as tin foil hatters.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

  15. Re:I've noticed that, but something else interesti by Imrik · · Score: 2

    Makes me wonder what happens if you have a passenger using the SatNav in a way that the driver can't eavesdrop.

  16. I stopped reading at Hippocampus by SebaSOFT · · Score: 1

    Hippocampus != hypothalamus youo know? ROFL'd It made my night shift more pleasant

    1. Re:I stopped reading at Hippocampus by SebaSOFT · · Score: 1
  17. Bad translation by s.petry · · Score: 1

    What Socrates stated in a better translation is that there is no way to teach Philosophy with a book. Philosophy is taught through interrogation of concepts and ideas. (Cambridge Texts:Linguistic/Historical)

    Which is of course what we call "The Socratic Method". Most people are not taught the method and don't bother to read the method even though there are plenty of books. Socrates was more often correct than not.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    1. Re:Bad translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      More properly, dialetics, a dialogue. The Socratic method is a subform where only one side presents questions and only the other presents answers intended to lead the one answering into their own irrational or hypocritical thoughts.

      People at the time of a democratic Athens thought of the Socratic method as being the worst tool of smartasses. Even the well-educated eventually got sick of Socrates being a dick and he died as a result. People that knew him well wanted him to leave or die. He had every chance to "escape", but chose to stay and die as he lived, being a petulant dick of questionable merit.

      If it weren't for the Platonic Socrates, Plato being obsessed with him and writing so much about him, Socrates would be less well known than Heraclitus, Empedocles, or Anaxagoras. We would probably claim that real philosophy started with the Atomists or Ionians, perhaps Pythagoras (who was moderately obsessed with beans of all things, even made a religion).

      So in reality when you think of Socrates, you are not thinking of Socrates as he was but a mixture of how Plato felt about Socrates (who was an aristocrat that despised democracy and favored the 30 tyrants, yet we hold up his ideas as good for democracy) combined with other more accurate historical accounts of him being an ass to everyone. The first neckbeard lets say.

    2. Re:Bad translation by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 1

      The Socratic Method is essentially the scientific method. ie, science.

    3. Re:Bad translation by narcc · · Score: 1

      No, no it is not. Not even if you squint and tilt your head.

    4. Re:Bad translation by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 1
      From wikipedia:

      Socrates' interlocutor asserts a thesis, for example "Courage is endurance of the soul", which Socrates considers false and targets for refutation.
      Socrates secures his interlocutor's agreement to further premises, for example "Courage is a fine thing" and "Ignorant endurance is not a fine thing".
      Socrates then argues, and the interlocutor agrees, that these further premises imply the contrary of the original thesis; in this case, it leads to: "courage is not endurance of the soul".
      Socrates then claims that he has shown that his interlocutor's thesis is false and that its negation is true.

      This sounds a lot like observe, hypothesize, test, update.

    5. Re:Bad translation by narcc · · Score: 1

      You're very confused. There is no relationship between the Socratic method and the scientific method. Your own example illustrates neither observation, hypothesis, or testing.

      Why argue this? They're obviously unrelated to one another. Why double-down on a simple mistake?

  18. Re: I've noticed that, but something else interest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Its because we always verify information from people 'are they lying or wrong'. But totally trust the computer. It has no motive to lie.

    Frightening.

  19. Print maps vs directions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I doubt if I am unique. I'm pretty good using old print maps. I think it is intuitive and easy. Your view of the map is as-if your are floating in the sky looking down on the map, and all you have to do is find out where you are, and North is up. I also tend to know where North is.
    I'm also aware that an annoying, to me, large part of the population cannot use or read traditional maps. The non-map readers never got it. Maybe map reading should have been taught is school. I also find it annoying that so many people draw a dumb blank look when I tell them, "Get off the Freeway and head North. What do you mean you don't know where North is? Okay, do you know where the sun rises and sets..."
    Currently, old style maps are in danger of being killed off by Google Maps, and other internet smartphone app maps.
    Google maps clog my computer with ads, somehow North-South-East-West in "there," but hidden in favor of street directions. They assume that you are looking at a map to find out a list of directions to go from one address to another address.
    Hey, give me a traditional map, I take a mental snapshot, and when I get nearby look at zoomable closeup--(and why does north move when I rotate the smartphone?!?) and I've got it.
    So much for the Cartesian Grid.

    Jump to 6:30 on this for Jackie Burkhart navigational methods, lasts less than a minute. I think this is the mentality of internet maps:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxnPxKsw9TM

  20. I'm lacking that part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seriously, I have the navigational instincts of a dead clam. I get lost in my house. Satellite navigation made life livable. I used to travel with a Rand McNally road atlas and a yellow pages. God bless GPS.

    1. Re:I'm lacking that part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's interesting. How do you receive the GPS signal inside your house? Is it made of glass? Have you tried posting signs on the walls? You know, like a plan of your house with a 'you are here, dumbfuck' dot?
      And now be honest, how many times did you have to piss in the sink because you couldn't find your way to the bathroom?

  21. Re: I've noticed that, but something else interest by chipschap · · Score: 0

    Its because we always verify information from people 'are they lying or wrong'. But totally trust the computer. It has no motive to lie.

    I can see you're not using Windows 10.

  22. big map books of the local area are not that easy by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    big map books of the local area are not that easy to use in the car and what if you need 2-3 of them cover the drivers zone?

  23. Re:I've noticed that, but something else interesti by Cramer · · Score: 1

    Nope. That's exactly the thing. We trust the computer and will blindly follow it over a cliff. The passenger, being human, is just as fallible as the driver, so we don't trust it. The computer will NEVER forget to tell you about a turn; the passenger most definitely can (and will.)

  24. Who'd have thunk it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In another earth-shattering revelation, they found that driving a car deactivates some of the muscles used for walking. It's as if technology somehow allows us to use our mental and physical resources on other things...

  25. They should test if this also happens with persons by tusko5 · · Score: 2

    They should test if this also happens with persons. Maybe is an evolutionary behavior. For instance, a nomad group, leaded by a pathfinder can benefit from this behavior. The pathfinder only focuses on "directions" while the followers can focus on the surroundings, dangers, etc.

  26. children can't use pencils by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Children who start using touchscreen displays at a young age, and who are engaged with those screens almost exclusively to more traditional toys, are starting school unable to hold pencils and perform important dexterity tasks. I imagine some people think, "That is good, we don't need handwriting anyway!" If all these kids know how to do is point, they will lack the skills to use basic hand tools, use scissors, type on a keyboard. Get ready for the disaster.

    1. Re:children can't use pencils by negRo_slim · · Score: 1

      Not to be combative but can you provide sources for any of that?

      --
      On the Oregon Cost born and raised, On the beach is where I spent most of my days
    2. Re:children can't use pencils by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 1

      No, this will be a glorious victory. And thinking is bad anyway.(PDF)

      by NDN fellow, Morley Winograd

      Given how far astray critical thinking has often taken us, maybe it’s time to embrace the Millennial Generation’s approach and see if it leads to even better results than the preferred methods of older generations

    3. Re:children can't use pencils by BronsCon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Of course he can't, he's making a logically reasoned prediction. There can't possibly be sources, as the kids he's talking about are just now old enough to be in kindergarten; they haven't grown up to not know how to do any more than point.

      I, for one, agree with him to a degree. It's entirely possible that is the path we are heading down. Unlike you, I also understand that there's no point in arguing about whether or not that's where we're headed, since it's too late to do anything about it if we are, and time will tell one way or the other. You won't be any more right or wrong in a decade when we find out, regardless of whether or not an anonymous internet commenter can provide sources today.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    4. Re:children can't use pencils by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      they've already stopped teaching "cursive" writing in schools. all kids can do these days is print.. and horribly at that. a seventh graders today PRINT handwriting is worse than a third grader's (print or cursive) from a generation ago.

    5. Re:children can't use pencils by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      Except, of course, that holding a pencil is hardly the only use of manual dexterity in anyone's life.

    6. Re: children can't use pencils by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and docters professors but i think they do it on purpoose.

    7. Re:children can't use pencils by Archtech · · Score: 1

      Can they talk?

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    8. Re:children can't use pencils by cvdwl · · Score: 1

      LM Google that FY.

      --
      ... grumble, grumble, grumble, mutter, mutter, Millenium... Hand... Shrimp, I tol' 'em, I tol' 'em.
    9. Re: children can't use pencils by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here in Blighty they haven't, but that's to prepare children for first writing on slates, then wax, and finally in the dirt on our way back to pre-civilisation.

    10. Re:children can't use pencils by l20502 · · Score: 1

      But what about doctors handwriting?

    11. Re:children can't use pencils by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1

      What about the "disaster" he is predicting? Can you expand on that? What do you think he means?

    12. Re:children can't use pencils by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What you're good at depends on what you practice msot - no surprise there.

      Todays kids are worse at handwriting - but on the other hand, they can make use of a word processor. Which is a useful skill today. New stuff comes in, some of the old stuff have to go. 100 years ago, most children could herd sheep/cows/goats - almost a lost skill today but it is lower in demand too.

    13. Re: children can't use pencils by PoopJuggler · · Score: 2

      And 100 years ago they said kids would be dumber for using pencils instead of slates. There's always some Boogeyman that's ruining children, and "the good old days" were always better. The baby boomers have even taken it to the extreme by electing a president who they think will take us back to 1950 because they think everything was better then, much to the detriment of the country. Progress is inevitable, and honestly I would rather my kids be experts at manipulating computers than experts at navigation.

    14. Re:children can't use pencils by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There's a documentary about it. IIRC it's called Wall-E.

    15. Re:children can't use pencils by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      He could mean any multitude of lost skills as a result of current trends. As he specifically mentions losing the ability to write, I can come up with a number of scenarios in which that might be, well... less than ideal, shall we say.

      Let's just say, a couple generations from now, only a select few "historians" know how to write. Typewriters are already a relic of the past, they aren't gonna be any easier to find 30 years from now, so all text-based communication is done via computers by that point. What happens when communication networks are taken out? No calls, because no communication network. No internet because no communication network. No pont-to-point because no communication network. Are you seeing a pattern here? Handwritten letters, delivered by courier, would sure be useful in that scenario.

      And I don't just mean to let Grandma know little Johnny is okay. I mean for the dissemination of military intelligence relating to the attack that took out said communication networks; e.g. who just decided to start a war with us. It makes it a fair bit easier to send the missiles to the right location if we can get teams out to the launch sites (since the communication networks are down and we can't launch remotely) with the correct coordinates to send the missiles to, doesn't it?

      If course, that's just the first scenario my just-woke-up, pre-coffee brain came up with, without really giving it much thought. I'm sure, if you put just a tiny bit more effort into it than I did, you'll be able to come up with others.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    16. Re:children can't use pencils by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      Oh, and before you say "the government will have thought of that and will keep said historians on staff or, at least, said typewriters in inventory"... yeah... sure they will... because people like you would never have said "this won't be an issue, we don't need to do that".

      Oh... wait... that's right! If they do, it will be because of people like me, who can see the writing on the wall... while people still know how to write.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    17. Re: children can't use pencils by jbengt · · Score: 1

      And 100 years ago they said kids would be dumber for using pencils instead of slates.

      Wrong in two ways:
      - They used slates instead of paper, not instead of pencils.
      - They used slates because it was cheaper, and they didn't think slates were making children more intelligent than using paper.

    18. Re:children can't use pencils by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good. Cursive was only pushed in schools so the CIA/NSA could do handwriting analysis more easily. If you are interested in learning more, I've already pushed a xeroxed copy of my book under your door.

    19. Re: children can't use pencils by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thats a lazy parenting failure, not technology to blame.

      as for GPS, its great for navigating new places, I also use it to find alternative ways to get places, once Ive learned the route I dont bother with the GPS anymore.

    20. Re:children can't use pencils by Dayze!Confused · · Score: 2

      I learned Chinese by immersion, and also taught myself to write, due to a lack of the use of a computer during the first couple years. Once I got a computer and began typing in Chinese I've found myself now unable to write out most characters from memory. I can still read, and if I see a character I can copy it using correct stroke patterns. My wife, who is a native, also finds herself struggling a little with writing out characters. Though this has nothing to do with dexterity, but moving too quickly, or for too long, away from more manual methods can cause us to forget how to do them with primitive tools.

      --
      "All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." [Thomas Jefferson]
    21. Re: children can't use pencils by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So true, incidentally, all of my coursework was completed by pasting cuttings made from various and sundry magazines and newspapers. Take that, you CIA scoundrels.

  27. Re:big map books of the local area are not that ea by perpenso · · Score: 2

    big map books of the local area are not that easy to use in the car and what if you need 2-3 of them cover the drivers zone?

    Well, we had three of those guidebooks (Thomas Bros) and we looked at them when not actively driving. Basically there was a planning stage where we created a mental map, it was enough or it was supplemented by notes (street names, distances, turns, etc.). Then once we had a plan we executed the plan. It really was not much trouble, two or three minutes up front before you started driving.

    I confess that my guides are 10+ years old and move from trunk of old car to trunk of new car unused. Off in the wilds, there I moderate the wonders of handheld wireless computing. Drop GPS pins where we park and where we set up a campsite but navigate with printed maps and mechanical compasses, brushing up on that perishable skill, leaving the phone/gps in a waterproof bag turned off for backup.

  28. Why is this news? by Tablizer · · Score: 2

    Isn't this obvious? It's what we want of technology: do the grunt work so we don't have to. I wanna be hummin' to my fav tunes in the car, not watching for turning landmarks.

    Brains are metabolically quite expensive. Therefore, evolution has designed brains to be lazy and kick into cruse control when it can to conserve energy.

    1. Re: Why is this news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or apply/concentrate/prioritize it to more important things than the mundane

    2. Re:Why is this news? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      Isn't this obvious?

      You knew about the interaction between the front and rear hippocampus and the prefrontal cortex? Heck, why did the researchers bother doing the fMRI study rather than posting an Ask Slashdot?

      I presume here you're not simply reacting to the clickbait headline - that would be unkind.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  29. Re:I've noticed that, but something else interesti by vux984 · · Score: 1

    Anyone who has been navigated by gps system though knows they make mistakes all the time. from failing to be sufficiently clear, to directing you to make a left turn across a busy 9 lane highway, to sending you down a side-street with speedbumps instead of the main street one block over, to telling you to turn left at 3pm at an intersection that is only legal to turn left at after 6:30pm... to pulling a u-turn on a divided highway...etc etc.

    I don't dispute you though... because people DO seem to turn their brains off, but it makes no sense because we KNOW the computer can screw up too and will.

  30. Re:I've noticed that, but something else interesti by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 2

    >When I'm out riding on my bile,

    What a way to go!

    --
    I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
  31. Re:Electronic gadgets and social media do that by VernonNemitz · · Score: 1

    Some relevant adages:
    "Fore-warned is fore-armed." --things don't have to get worse.
    "Too much of any good thing is always a bad thing." --the essence of how tech can make things worse.
    "Use it or lose it!" --your brain, that is....

  32. Re:Why is this NONSENSE here? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because it's click-bait. It really is fake news.

  33. The potential for hilarity by MrKaos · · Score: 1

    I can't help thinking of the side splitting entertainment value that could be associated with navigation devices. Imagine for example shuffling around the sound files so that left is fight and 300 metres is 100 metres. Simple hack really. Of course you would also need access to their phone and camera to observe your work but the lulz man, think of the lolly lol lols.

    The consequences this article is suggesting are a little unsurprising. Apart from people give up their ability to think critically and reason I wonder what else we are losing by placing so much dependence on these devices.

    --
    My ism, it's full of beliefs.
  34. it makes sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    your not using it so why would it activate that part of the brain Â\_(ãf)_/Â

  35. Re:I've noticed that, but something else interesti by mark-t · · Score: 4, Interesting

    My favorite GPS screwup was one where we were driving south on an overpass, and the gps system told us to turn left to get onto the E/W route that the overpass was taking us on top of. Of course, since we were in the middle of a bridge, this was impossible. What we actually had to do was travel to the other side of the overpass, and then navigate back onto east-running lower route. There were no left turns involved. The driver was thoroughly pissed off with the system, ranting almost for the entire rest of the trip at the rest of us about how he was going to file a complaint with the company that supplied him with it, but I just found the whole thing hilarious. In retrospect now, though, I have just considered that the fact that I was laughing about it at the time may have just been making him angrier, which led to the 15 minute or so tirade.

  36. Re:I've noticed that, but something else interesti by Cramer · · Score: 2

    Those aren't errors in the GPS, but the data it's working with. If it doesn't know about a road, it won't tell you drive down it. If it doesn't know about time restrictions, or construction, or accidents, etc., etc. If we're talking about Waze, then I to have say that's not "GPS"; it's more of a "well, no one else is driving here, so go here!" system.

    We validate what the GPS is telling us to do, but we don't ignore it's instructions and plan our own path. If one can't turn left, they pass the turn and wait for the GPS to figure things out. If you can't get in the correct lane in time, again, no panic, just keep driving until the GPS recalculates.

    My favorite was the old Lexus GPS. It knows there are roads, and draws lines on the screen, but "has no data" on them so will not navigate over them. (and fills the screen with endless warnings so you can't see any of the little grey lines)

  37. Clickbait science headlines... by baadfood · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "Switches off parts of Brain" is just a very dramatic way of saying "You won't remember the route".

    "Oooo, I better read the article, lest I become permanently retarded next time I use a GPS!"

    1. Re:Clickbait science headlines... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Switches off parts of Brain" is just a very dramatic way of saying "You won't remember the route".

      More like saying "You aren't paying attention to the route".

      Pretty much the same as when you're a passenger and the driver knows how to get there. Most people don't pay that much attention to streets and turns unless they're helping the driver navigate (or they're really annoying back seat drivers who think they need to help).

  38. While I still can read and work maps... by TigerPlish · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...reading maps while driving / biking is asinine. Before satnav I used to plot a route to a new destination using a map,. and distill that to a single 3x5" (approx) piece of paper (a crib) I'd tape to the steering wheel hub or handle bars. Worked fine, but wouldn't adapt to real-time changes.

    If you ask me, GPS satnav is the best thing to come out of the Cold War. It's still fallible... but it sure beats spending 15 minutes at a stop-n'-rob parking lot with a map unfolded over the car's hood plotting your next move.. can of Coke in one hand and lit marlboro in the other.. yeah.. I just god a good memory of a trip across the SE USA in a 1984 Rx-7, reading paper maps in parking lots =o)

    But... I agree.. map-reading is a skill that must be preserved and taught. AB-so-lute-ly. I am a firm believer in first learning the tried-and-true paper-and-pencil methods. Even in meteorology school in the early 90's I understood it -- learn to do it the old way, and when the new way fails, you'll still be able to perform. And ... y'know? Many times doing it the pencil and paper way showed me things that computers just glossed over.. things that made a huge difference.

    --
    The "Civilized World" jumped the shark ca. 1973.
    1. Re:While I still can read and work maps... by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      I've always had trouble with maps. Reading them is the easy part. Getting the damn things folded or unfolded is the tough part. :-p

      I haven't done much with GPSs. I did more travelling before they existed. I recently went on a trip with a friend who used one, and I got to see a number of its limitations. Based on that, and on what I've heard about them, I'd say they're probably a good thing, but you have to take them with a grain of salt.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
  39. I would guess this is the difference by gweilo8888 · · Score: 3, Informative

    My guess would be that because your brain expects a human copilot to screw up the directions or not provide them soon enough, you continue to focus on the route yourself. Your modern GPS is so close to infallible, though, that your brain just expects the directions to work and switches off. I've experienced the same thing myself.

    1. Re:I would guess this is the difference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My guess would be pretty much the opposite.

      With a human navigator, the directions you're getting are only a part of your interaction with the person, and very likely not the most important part at that. Therefore you have to interpret and put them in context, and that requires some level of processing that involves comparison to the outside world.

      With a satnav, there is no real "context" or "interpretation", so that layer of processing is missing.

      Also, if you miss something your human navigator says, you just have to ask them to repeat it. With the satnav, you probably have to look away from the road and, at the very least, tap something on a screen to get it repeated. So you'll be that much more focused on its directions.

  40. Scaremongering by abies · · Score: 3, Insightful

    From the title, it sounds like part of your brain is lost forever.

    Question is not really if you are using same part of brain while navigating with or without GPS (it seems obvious there will be different parts activated). Interesting questions are:
    - if after navigating with GPS for long enough, your ability to navigate without it in new terrain is hindered considerably, assuming you have grown up without reliance on GPS?
    - is new generation which relied on GPS from very young age measurably worse at non-aided navigaton that other people?

    1. Re:Scaremongering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The part you used for handling orientation is now dedicated to remembering the whereabouts of the Kashardians...

  41. Facebook. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm much more concerned about the parts of the brain switched off by Facebook. And Twitter. And Amazon, Apple, Google.

    (Disclaimer: I do my orientation myself. I can even use a (gasp!) analog compass. But that's because I fucking enjoy doing that)

  42. Human directions are more intuitive by Solandri · · Score: 1

    There's not much difference between my self-plotted route and the GPS route on when the roads are laid down in a grid. But a city nearby where I live has lots of curvy and bendy roads. When I plot a route on my own using a map, I tend to use intuitive directions - take a road until I'd pass the destination, turn, take the second road until I'd pass the destination, turn, take the third road until I'd pass the destination, etc. Basically, unravel the twisty roads into a quasi-grid, and plot a route along that grid. When I let the GPS plot the route, it comes up with seemingly-crazy directions where I change to a parallel road halfway to the destination for no reason than because it shaves 0.1 miles off the distance.

    A similar thing happens with subway maps. At first subways tried using geographically accurate maps. But they soon found that subway riders had trouble learning the stops and when to get off. So they simplified the maps by straightening out a lot of the kinks and curves. The result is no longer geographically accurate, but is a lot easier for people to remember.

    1. Re:Human directions are more intuitive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Never use "shortest route" unless you're on foot. Use "fastest route" instead. If you navigation unit is worth anything, it will add extra time for each turn, which should prevent routes with silly turns.

  43. Stellite Navigation by n329619 · · Score: 3, Funny

    GPS Map: Turn Left,

    GPS Map: Then Turn Left,

    GPS Map: Turn Left again on the next intersection.

    Me: Wait... have I been here before? oh well, I sure hope it's right.

    GPS Map: Turn Left,

    1. Re:Stellite Navigation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If that happens, then likely the first left you took was the wrong one, try not to keep repeating your mistake. Although sometimes due to road closures you may be forced into deviating from the route in such a way that your satnav ends up doing loops, in that case you just have to go sufficiently off script for it to plot a different route.

    2. Re:Stellite Navigation by narcc · · Score: 1

      So close to a great joke, until that last 'turn left' spoiled it.

      Two wrongs, as you know, don't make a right. But three lefts do.

  44. Elaborate excuse? by Tomahawk · · Score: 1

    Is this just an elaborate excuse by one of the authors 'cos he followed this GPS and took a turn into a field?!

  45. Re:I've noticed that, but something else interesti by SpaghettiPattern · · Score: 1

    ...If I listen to the computer, I can't remember shit. If a passenger looks at the map and does essentially the same function, I can remember everything fine and well...

    Could it be a default distrust of humans performing a repetitive and error prone task? So you listen more critically and perhaps engage in a conversation instead of simply executing tasks the navigator gives you.

    Perhaps a bad navigator is exactly what we need. One that gets it right roughly but where map knowledge produces a better result.

    My navigator is actually not that good. It's 6 years old, hasn't all the newest addresses and roads, and therefore sometime takes a bad route. Not only do I overrule it often but I feel good (smug?) for doing so.

    Then again, I'm fascinated by maps. Like reading them. Knowing roads very few people take. Understanding that geography has mostly causal dependency on geology.

    --

    I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
  46. Re:I've noticed that, but something else interesti by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

    I rarely use GPS/navigation (my car has none for instance).
    So except when on sea I always have north up.

    --
    Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  47. Re:I've noticed that, but something else interesti by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

    I found GPS directions were a good way of getting to know my way around when I moved here, but I looked at the planned route before I set off (walking or cycling) and was then able to look more at my surroundings. The phone in my pocket would tell me which turning to take, and so I'd get to know the routes very quickly and not need to look at the map. After a week, I wasn't bothering to set the directions. Having the GPS also gave me more confidence to explore - I could wander around in a random direction and know that I'd never actually get lost. Just like any other tool, the benefits of a satnav depend entirely on how you use it.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  48. Communication vs. instruction by DrYak · · Score: 1

    I would guess that the difference is that a satnav device gives you step-by-step instruction that you can blindly follow.
    ("Turn left, turn right, stay on the left lane, etc.") the information is very low level and simple. Almost giving you direct instruction about what to input on the control interface of the car.
    (i.e.: you're mostly thinking about turning the wheel, pushing the pedals and fiddling with the transmission stick)

    Whereas a passenger with a map will *communicate* with you. You'd be having a discussion about where you're going.
    The passenger might give much more higher level instruction :
    ("See that traffic light at the end of the street? You'll need to turn left there" vs. "Stay in left lane. [pause] Turn left").
    You and your passenger are communicating about your spacial environment.
    And therefore your brain needs to think in term of spacial location in order to parse and process the informations given by your passenger.
    (i.e.: you are still thinking spatially, because you need to process speech about spatial cues).

    Now although IAAD, I'm not a neuro psychiatrist so the above guess might be wrong.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  49. This explains a lot. by Desprez · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In hindsight, I've noticed this myself, but never really gave it much thought.

    It also explains an annoyance I've found in games.

    Over the years, game have increasingly added more and more navigation features to lead you to your goal. And it seems the more "hand-holdy" they become, the less I can remember where I'm at, where I'm going, how to get there, or what the overall area layout is like. And if I'm not alone here, player's then rely more on the waypoins, etc. And this in turn, seems to cause developers to become ever more helpful with navigation aids. And so on.

    I've always attributed this to some kind of fundamental difference between real and virtual worlds. As I'm always thinking about how I'm never this lost in real life, how can I be so turned around in the game? So this make perfect sense.

    Additionally, I wonder if this explains the difference between rotating and static minimaps. The rotating maps give me a better indication of how to get to a specific spot, but lead me to have zero understanding of the area. Whereas static maps let me understand the area, and I've apparently learned how to use them to get to a specific spot. (Though this might also be influenced by my upbringing in a time before smartphone maps.)

    So I find it interesting that the very things to help you navigate might make you worse at it.
    Which is also why the minimap is so crucial to getting a feel for, and understanding the area. For me, it seems to counter-act the disorienting effect of over-reliance of navigation aids. So when developers decide that they don't want to have a minimap for reasons, yet still include all the hand-holding, I now understand why this is the worst-case for actually understanding the area.

    It seems the solution would be then, if you're against minimaps and want to encourage more natural exploration, you should also remove most of the navigation aids as well. Anything more than perhaps a compass, and a maybe a goal direction on that compass, will actually make players more lost, and have less of an understanding of the world you've created.

  50. What a huge and incredible surprise. by sabbede · · Score: 1

    Using GPS means you don't have to think about how to get where you're going. Shocking.

  51. Re:I've noticed that, but something else interesti by reboot246 · · Score: 1

    I have the voice on my GPS turned off. I already know my way around, or at least have a mental image of where I'm at and where I'm going. Leaving the voice off makes me look at the signs and compare them to the map. I do like the ETA feature when I'm going to or coming back from work. Understand that my work could be anywhere in half dozen states and hundreds of cities and towns.

    Don't let the device lead you; instead think of it as a digital map. Keep north at the top of the screen. Learn the way streets are laid out. Avenues and streets east-west or north-south? Different cities do it differently. Roads and highways are numbered -- north-south are odd numbers and east-west are even numbers. And never forget that the sun rises in the east. :)

    I've spent my whole career (40+ years) going to places I had never been to before. Back in the days before GPS all I needed to learn about a city was a paper map and a phone book. Paper maps were generally free from the local chamber of commerce - all you had to do was ask. I've never been lost driving. Been turned around and bewildered a couple of times backpacking, though.

  52. Re:I've noticed that, but something else interesti by sensei+moreh · · Score: 1

    US route numbering is fairly consistent. However, you might want to travel US 52. Sometimes it's signed north south; other times it's signed east-west.

    --
    Geology - it's not rocket science; it's rock science
  53. My best guess? Trust by PPalmgren · · Score: 1

    We know our fellow humans are very error prone, so when another human is giving you directions, you're creating a map in your head to make sure it all makes sense. We trust our nav systems implicitly and can see the map on the screen ourselves, thus we have no need to create a map to organize our thoughts.

  54. similarly with autonomous vehicles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Autonomous vehicles have some uses, particularly for the elderly, but they will damage humankind by taking away our traditional mastery over our own transportation, going back thousands of years. Learning how to drive a car is a rite of passage and it's a daily responsibility, backed by serious consequences to those who fuck up.

  55. Some do Some Don't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Taxi radio operator here - AC 'cause I have no log in ;-)

    A whole bunch of drivers will drive to that dot on the map and say "where is my customer" and I say - can you see that big old school out side your window?
    Or what ever it is as the dot on the map is in the wrong bloody place - yeah they get confused as they are thick, or lack common sense - take your choice.
    But not all of them - actually many are pretty quite sharp and find customers beyond what I would have expected.
    Example: 259 "no road name", Well Known Suburb - yeah yeah, the smart boys and girls sus out the "known" broken behavoiur,

    Brain fade != cash, some kind of Darwinism I suppose...

  56. Re:I've noticed that, but something else interesti by killfixx · · Score: 1

    That makes sense. You implicitly trust the SatNav to be accurate, but other people's direction could be erroneous. Ergo, your brain is constantly fact-checking their directions.

    --
    "Helping to keep you two steps ahead of the Thought Police!"
  57. Re:I've noticed that, but something else interesti by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

    I've been there just last weekend. A friend wanted to find someplace he hadn't been in years. The GPS said to turn on some rinky-dink street just by the highway. I hadn't been to that place at all, but that didn't sound right. My friend took that road anyway, and sure enough it led nowhere and he ended up with both me and the GPS telling him to just get on the !@#$ highway.

    --
    Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
  58. Re: I've noticed that, but something else interest by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

    Its because we always verify information from people 'are they lying or wrong'. But totally trust the computer. It has no motive to lie.

    I can see you're not using Windows 10.

    Well played sir. Funny and coming out of left field.

    The humorless reactionaries in here will take your +5 funny comment and turn you into a troll. I just wanted to acknowledge that some of us still have a sense of humor.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  59. Re:big map books of the local area are not that ea by Hognoxious · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I drove across the US about 20 years ago using a HUD. Well I call it a HUD, I wrote the main waypoints on the windshield with a marker before each leg.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  60. Relatives from out of town. by Lord+Kano · · Score: 1

    I had a cousin and her family come to town from Maryland and when it was time for them to go home, I tried to give them directions to the Turnpike. It was literally take the next four right turns and then drive about 6 miles, you'll see the signs.

    She was like Nope, I'm GPSing it. The GPS gives her valid directions but they were longer and more complicated.

    I was amused but she got home safely.

    LK

    --
    "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    1. Re:Relatives from out of town. by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      One time, the office Christmas party was in an area I didn't know that well. I looked at my phone's directions, didn't think they looked right, and tried on my own. It turned out, the phone would have gotten me there, but my way was shorter.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
  61. Re:I've noticed that, but something else interesti by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    I much prefer to orient the map like the land (even a paper one), but if it works for you...

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  62. Re:big map books of the local area are not that ea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I drove across the US about 20 years ago using a HUD. Well I call it a HUD, I wrote the main waypoints on the windshield with a marker before each leg.

    That's brilliant! Well, as long as you don't drive in the dark. Going to start doing that. Half the time, my GF can't read the step by step written instructions properly. "What's next?" "Where are we?" "You just read it to me 10 minutes ago, just go to the next one." Mapping and navigation are not her strong points.

    Having the instructions right up there would mean I just get us there and we talk about whatever else instead.

  63. Re:big map books of the local area are not that ea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm not even that old and I remember driving like this, memorize the major roads to get in the general area, pull over, check map and memorize to get close, repeat until you're there.

    And there always the TripTik, basically GPS on paper.

  64. Re:I've noticed that, but something else interesti by jbengt · · Score: 1

    My GPS screwup story is when we decided not to stay in the hotel connected to a casino (because it smelled like stale cigarette smoke and booze) and selected a nearby one from the GPS. It sent is out the parking lot, under the overpass, about a half mile down the road, making a few turns to get onto the overpass, then over the overpass and a few more turns, another mile or so, and we were at our destination - the same parking lot we started from! (two separate hotels with one parking lot)

  65. Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I learn a route after I drive it a few times using the GPS. And also start ignoring invalid turns because I know roughly where I'm going, and that mental model gets stronger because of the repetition. I also start using it to refine the route and eventually arrive at the shortest possible path, at which point I stop using the GPS entirely because I know the complete optimal route.

    I think a more useful study would be to study GPS rage caused by the GPS interpreting an extended stop (because long red lights arent a thing) as "The driver is lost, start blabbing directions on a loop". I suspect fixing this is a rather simple programming fix: if the mic hears expletives or "SHUT UP" the GPS stops talking for awhile or until the next turn is coming up.

  66. Re: I've noticed that, but something else interest by tehcyder · · Score: 1

    I doubt anyone ever got modded down on slashdot for making a joke about Microsoft.

    --
    To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  67. I have noticed this personally by jediborg · · Score: 1

    I used to look up directions on mapquest or google maps. I would study the recommended route, but also the alternative possible routes, and the general surrounding topography and major roads before i took off. That way if i took a wrong turn on the way, i would still have a general idea of where i was and where i needed to go.

    Then GPS happened. At first i loved it and used it all the time. But the first time my GPS stopped working on-route, and I realized i had no clue where i was and had to pull over to restart the GPS device and hope it regained connection so i could continue my route, i realized how dependent i had become .

    Nowadays i study the map before taking off like i used to, i make sure i understand the general path. "e.g. your going to take this major highway south, take this exit, and go east on this road until you are in this neighborhood, the house you are going to is somewhere in the neighborhood" So basically when i drive these days i already know where i am going, the GPS is only to tell me the best route to the major highway, or how to navigate the neighborhood to get to the exact house im going too. This way if the GPS putzes out on me on-route, i don't have to pull over, i can just keep driving until GPS kicks in again.... or i get to that neighborhood and then call my friend and ask them how to get to her exact house.

    1. Re:I have noticed this personally by Baron_Yam · · Score: 1

      I guess I'm older. I used to travel with a Perly's Guide for the Toronto area and big folding maps for the rest of the province. And some change for a pay phone.

      I got pretty good at dead reckoning and knowing my approximate position at different scales. It's also pretty easy to estimate your travel time when the highway markers count kilometers and traffic goes at 120 km/h. 2km/min. Of course, you have to know where the highway terminus is (or at least your exit) so you can figure out how far you have left to go, but that doesn't take long since exit numbers match the distance from the terminus.

      Big trips are easy. Head to the biggest road that heads the way you want to go. Bump over to a country concession if the highway's blocked. Big cities... everything's nicely marked even if some of the roads twist and wind a bit.

      Small towns, though... I could get lost on a postage stamp. For that I am immensely glad for smartphones, ubiquitous cellular coverage, mobile GPS apps, and Google Streetview.

      Still, I'm glad I have the navigation skills I developed the difficult way even though I now generally rely on GPS. When the navigation directions are poor, I'm not a slave to the device.

  68. Re:I've noticed that, but something else interesti by thegarbz · · Score: 1

    that my brain essentially shuts off

    Does your brain shut off, or does it simply divert to another task like paying attention to the road? Your attention is a finite resource. Trying to figure out where you are is at odds with you manoeuvring a huge metal can on wheels through a dynamic obstacle course.

  69. in similar news by 3seas · · Score: 1

    Computer AI shuts off the part of the brain used for thinking.
    See, programmers are gods.

  70. This is nothing new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Before these fancy sat-navs, I used to take an address, and just go find it. Well, apparently my wife was in the habit of stopping to ask for directions. Sometimes she would be my passenger, and after a wrong turn or two would tell me "would you just stop and ask for directions already?"... ... she must have lost her mind if she thinks I'm going to stop and ask for directions!

  71. Re:My best guess? Trust by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't think it's that. I've noticed the same thing as the parent commenter, even when navigating to places the passenger has already been to or has total knowledge of where it is, e.g. their home.

  72. Re:I've noticed that, but something else interesti by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Those aren't errors in the GPS, but the data it's working with."

    If you want to be technically accurate, I guess. But the term "GPS" as it is commonly used refers not just to the 24 satellites and the hardware, but to the map data and the presentation of information as well. In the end, the GPS is only as good as the data it relies on as far as the user is concerned.

  73. Re: I've noticed that, but something else interest by chipschap · · Score: 1

    Well, I got modded as "flamebait" :)

  74. Re:I've noticed that, but something else interesti by vux984 · · Score: 1

    Those aren't errors in the GPS, but the data it's working with.

    I'm curious what you'd rank as an 'error in the GPS'. I completely glossed over other classes of 'error'; such as the GPS guessing which way you are facing on a road when you start a trip so you drive six feet and then it recalculates a new route based on the fact that you are going the other direction but that's just 'bad data too'. Or then there are the times its positional reckoning is off -- so it tells you to turn but you are actually a block away from where it thinks you are but that's just 'bad data' too.

    Are those errors in the GPS, Or in the data its working from...it seems to be a distiction without a difference to me.

    We validate what the GPS is telling us to do, but we don't ignore it's instructions and plan our own path. If one can't turn left, they pass the turn and wait for the GPS to figure things out.

    As often as not, it simply reroutes you around the block back to the same intersection you couldn't use the first time. If you are lucky it'll at least have you approach it from a new angle so you can legally turn... i've been unlucky on many occasions. And if the road is simply closed for construction or something you are boned when it does that.

    If you can't get in the correct lane in time, again, no panic, just keep driving until the GPS recalculates.

    Yeah, that's usually where the GPS starts insisting you make illegal U-turns at major intersections, or emergency vehicle access roads, etc...

  75. Perhaps I am different by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I do not function that way. I have vast mental maps of places I have traveled. Including many major cities around the world, and the US. And I know the highway systems of several areas around the country, as well as the airports. Not to mention countless hiking and skiing trails. Plus rivers I have been down. I can close my eyes and picture them all clearly in my mind. I have been able to do this since I was in single digits. Perhaps I trained myself over the decades, but it comes as second nature at this point. Using GPS and looking at maps before I go helps me understand and familiarize areas before I visit. Reinforcing the whole experience for me when I experience it in real time. I rarely do need to use GPS or look at a map after I have done it once. I would be curious of the age of the people that were part of this study. Maybe if they relied on GPS their whole life they never developed that part of their brain because the didn't feel it necessary. Much the same way most of the phone numbers I had memorized before I got a cell phone I still have memorized, but I have maybe memorize 2 phone numbers in the 2 decades since.

  76. Re:I've noticed that, but something else interesti by strikethree · · Score: 1

    If I listen to the computer, I can't remember shit. If a passenger looks at the map and does essentially the same function, I can remember everything fine and well.

    You implicitly trust the computer. When a human tells you, your brain does not blindly trust and tries to figure out if what the person is saying is true.

    Computers never lie... unless programmed to do so.

    --
    "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
  77. Oddly enough by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    Was just watching this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programme...

    There's a woman who has such an atrocious sense of direction she can get lost in her own house. Apparently she's playing video games & it's helping to rewire her noggin.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  78. Seems legit by NotRightAway · · Score: 1

    IME *everyone* who drives through Soho has their brain switched off at the time.