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London Terrorist Used WhatsApp, UK Calls For Backdoors (yahoo.com)
Wednesday 52-year-old Khalid Masood "drove a rented SUV into pedestrians on Westminster Bridge before smashing it into Parliament's gates and rushing onto the grounds, where he fatally stabbed a policeman and was shot by other officers," writes the Associated Press. An anonymous reader quotes their new report:
Westminster Bridge attacker Khalid Masood sent a WhatsApp message that cannot be accessed because it was encrypted by the popular messaging service, a top British security official said Sunday. British press reports suggest Masood used the messaging service owned by Facebook just minutes before the Wednesday rampage that left three pedestrians and one police officer dead and dozens more wounded.... Home Secretary Amber Rudd used appearances on BBC and Sky News to urge WhatsApp and other encrypted services to make their platforms accessible to intelligence services and police trying to carrying out lawful eavesdropping. "We need to make sure that organizations like WhatsApp -- and there are plenty of others like that -- don't provide a secret place for terrorists to communicate with each other," she said...
Rudd also urged technology companies to do a better job at preventing the publication of material that promotes extremism. She plans to meet with firms Thursday about setting up an industry board that would take steps to make the web less useful to extremists.
Rudd also urged technology companies to do a better job at preventing the publication of material that promotes extremism. She plans to meet with firms Thursday about setting up an industry board that would take steps to make the web less useful to extremists.
This is the same lady who thinks that they need to hire the people who "know the right hashcodes to fight terrorists."
She has no place conjecturing on the usefulness of the free web to a potted plant, let alone to extremists (whose membership increasingly include Western government officials)
Why the focus on the communication technology? Its role in these sorts of incidents seems minor compared to the effect and involvement of vehicular technology. It wasn't chat software causing the physical harm; it was vehicles.
She's simply the latest of a long line of British ministers who don't really understand the first thing about the Internet and its associated technologies.
Hilariously, in the same interview she claimed that Google was at fault because it was far to easy to find ‘stabbing instructions’ online.
They won't stop with "just extremists."
What about the role of leftism? It isn't conservatives or even moderates who want open borders, a lack of proper screening, and amnesty for criminals who violated immigration law. It's leftists.
Right now its looking pretty bad for the intellectual elite over there.
- He was screened by police several times
- Made an extremist while in her magisty's pleasure
And now the police are saying "If we read *that message* of him saying 'god be with me', *then* they would know what he was upto and what he was doing".
Looks more like they're trying to find a scape goat.
What laws would they change if it was revealed 'the terrists' were communicating via snail mail.
Would they require logs of your snail mail metadata, ban envelopes ?
Because it's SO difficult for someone to write a new app with no backdoors. Britain can't stop this; they can pass all the laws they want. But terrorists really don't care what the law says by definition. Plus it is a proven fact that British police can't stay within the lines when it comes to information like this.
Sure, a religion which promote to stone raped women and gays to death.
Move to that Utopian paradise where the citizens' never have to fret about terrorist attacks.
North Korea.
I think that the author missed from already public information, Vault 7, that everything that is on smartphone can be accessed in multiple ways, using various exploits. Basically back-doors already exists and are already used.
What are they really doing is legalization of existing practices that are already used anyway.
No raped women or gay men have been stoned to death in this country in the 100 odd years since the first mosque was built. If Muslims are planning to impose Sharia Law on us Brits, they're taking a very long time about it.
...not the symptoms.
Crypto everywhere.
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I believe Khalid was a British citizen. That's why he's allowed "in the UK". The bigger question is why aren't the British (and the Americans for that matter) insisting that new citizens (including their children) become CITIZENS of that country in heart and soul, not just a piece of paper with allegiance back to terrorist orgs/states, islamic or otherwise. But if we attempt to even say that, the snowflakes start yelling RAYCYST!!@#!
Ban Assault SUVs!
Sigh, even if what you said were true, the killer wasn't an immigrant. Sorry, I forgot facts no longer matter in the crazier parts of the world.
The police admit he "acted alone and say they have no indications that further attacks are planned." There are no claims the that his messages were about his impending crime.
Yes, it's Google's job to censor the internet so you feel safe.
When I use WhatsApp through my phone, it shows the history of my conversations. Presumably the police have recovered Masoods phone, can use one of the numerous ways to get into it, and can thus see what messages he sent over WhatsApp and to whom.
In short, why the hell can't Plod read Masoods last words over WhatsApp? Also if they knew he used WhatsApp, that shows they have either broken into his phone already or picked up some data from his ISP already.
Further, the latest UK Investigatory Powers Act regarding security only wanted metadata, not content, and a great deal of effort was spent convincing the general public that this was all that is needed.
So my question is, is my view of the situation wrong or is Amber Rudd technologically clueless?
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
.... urge governments to do a better job at preventing the immigration of populations that promotes extremism.
So what does immigration have to do with this particular British born animal?
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
Enterprise Rent-a-Car just needs to add one line to their rental agreement - a checkbox accompanied by the text "I agree not to use the rented vehicle for any act of terrorism".
Problem solved.
Quran (7:80-84) - "...For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.... And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)" -
Because we Americans have no shared social contract anymore.
Fuck off.
For every single one of you that wants reduced security for "law enforcement purposes", there is no less than 6 spooks, 5 corporations, 4 insurance scammers, 3 identity thieves, 2 terrorists / traitors, and 1 blackhawk helicopter parent just dying to abuse it.
Never mind that a criminal by definition will not abide by your backdoor requirements anyway. They'll use other apps that lack backdoors or failing that, apps that don't contain backdoors for you or your friends in foreign government intelligence offices.
All you want is to make your job easier while making everyone, including you, less safe and secure. So take your dream and shove it back up your ass where it belongs.
- The world.
Only up to the point before the soul is breathed into the body, which is around 40 days gestation depending on which school of thought you derive your jurisprudence from.
Or in exceptional circumstances such as during the Jugoslavian war when thousands of Muslim women were raped by "Christian" soldiers.
Ban car rentals for anyone at the age of 52. It would be just as effective.
Subject line says it all.
This sig intentionally left blank.
Is a VW golf an SUV?
It's not (though I think the Golf is called the Polo in the UK), but it's not clear why you're asking since the attacker was driving a rented Hyundai Tucson.
I believe Khalid was a British citizen. That's why he's allowed "in the UK". The bigger question is why aren't the British (and the Americans for that matter) insisting that new citizens (including their children) become CITIZENS of that country in heart and soul, not just a piece of paper with allegiance back to terrorist orgs/states, islamic or otherwise. But if we attempt to even say that, the snowflakes start yelling RAYCYST!!@#!
How would you do that? Is there some scanner that can look into one's heart and soul?
At what age do you propose people make some commitment to the UK? A few minutes after they are born? At 5 years old? 15? Note that Khalid was born in the UK.
Or perhaps your proposal is that the UK create an underclass of people who were born in the UK, but not entitled to UK citizenship?
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
"Can't ban cars... still need to do something... ah, of course! More surveillance! That will make the proles feel safer..."
Early Christians used the Roman rules: some few days after birth, the pater familias either picked up the child, giving it a soul, or left it down, to be exposed, soulless, on a hillside (;-))
davecb@spamcop.net
He had been investigated years ago, but cleared by the security services.
So:
1. Either they want to monitor everybody's communications, or
2. They are lying about the effect of having access to WhatsApp messages, or
3. This is just another excuse to monitor everyone's communications.
I believe that western civilization is in the process (if it hasn't already happened) of being taken over by the security apparatus, under the pretext of "protecting" us (in the same was as "devout muslims" "protect" their women by making them wear veils.
It's all about control under the guise of "protection". As I type that, I realize that it sounds just like the mafia.
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
"23 By the time Lot reached Zoar, the sun had risen over the land. 24 Then the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrahâ"from the Lord out of the heavens. 25 Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, destroying all those living in the citiesâ"and also the vegetation in the land. 26 But Lotâ(TM)s wife looked back, and she became a pillar of salt." - Genesis 19:23-26
"He has revealed to you the Book with truth, verifying that which is before it, and He revealed the Torch and the Gospels aforetime, a guidance for the people, and He sent the Furqan." - Quran 3:3
Same story. The Quran was sent to confirm what was sent before.
He used a SUV to mow down people. SUVs should be banned and so should rental companies that rent weapons of small-scale destruction.
is a terrorist suspect.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Say I'm living in a repressive society. I NEED to destroy or kill government officials to live free.
If I am unable to communicate, then I am left nude with no recourse alone and helpless.
If I can communicate, I can form a revolution, I can change society for the better and improve all of our lives.
We cannot destroy our freedom of expression
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"
The terrorist killed 3 people. There are billions of us, and our voices should not be silenced because of madmen and the power hungry elite, both sides of the same extremist coin. The politician calling for the silencing of everyone is no different than the madman trying to silence those against his ideals, she just does it in a smoother way. It is no less destructive and limiting.
We must bear with reality, bear with our pain, bear with our human reactions. We must not pervert what it is to be ourselves to make others feel safe, or else there will be nothing left which we can point to and say "THIS IS US, imperfectly beautiful".
----
Once upon a time, a woman was picking up firewood. She came upon a poisonous snake frozen in the snow. She took the snake home and nursed it back to health. One day the snake bit her on the cheek. As she lay dying, she asked the snake, "Why have you done this to me?" And the snake answered, "Look, bitch, you knew I was a snake."
I mean seriously, WhatsApp is owned by Facebook. You really think they don't already have backdoors? A company that makes money from data you all volunteer all the damn time, be it biometric (facial recognition) or digital fingerprinting (text), when they're not too busy cramming advertisements as news? A company caught repeatedly listening to inauditable signals from your TV to cater to your usage "experience"? That many users and no one has bothered to make a backdoor huh? People get angry at me when I attack FB, but I think it's just because they know I'm right but don't want to be reminded that they started something they can never actually leave. Wikileaks? I and the many other "nut jobs" we're warning people about this stuff 20 years ago. A backdoor sounds fancy and like something the creator has complete control over, but don't think for a second that it cannot be found and exploited. Backdoors don't care who you work for and are often created by exploiting a security flaw. Hasn't the UK done enough big brother bullshit already?
The bigger question is why aren't the British (and the Americans for that matter) insisting that new citizens (including their children) become CITIZENS of that country in heart and soul
And how would you define what being "British in heart and soul" is? I think a lot of people that feel pretty genuinely British even though they don't eat pork because they're vegetarians or vegans or don't drink or don't go to church or... And how would you test if people actually live "British" enough for you? And what would you do with a child born and raised in Britain that's too "un-British" but isn't a citizen of any other country? Imprison them? Send them to "reeducation camps"? Deport them? India for Hinduism, Thailand for Buddhism, Japan for Shinto? You can't force people on other nations, you know.
I think it would get rather hilarious to try this in America, ask all the people who aren't "real" Americans to go home. I think you'll get a lot of funny debates on who exactly that is... Mexicans? Africans? Non-Christians? Everybody but the native Americans?
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Honour killings are not limited to Muslim countries or Muslims.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Think this through - the terrorist sent a message "as he was driving". Being able to access the message after the fact does NOT stop the terrorism. The next step, and the ONLY way this will work is constant - real time - monitoring of all communication systems for all platforms everywhere. When a potential "hit" it comes across, the GPS in the device is located and tracked. Again, it may not have been soon enough, but demanding a back by law enforcement demonstrates the desire for a complete dystopian world.
Of course then terrorists just switch to encrypted radios. Which will imply it will be illegal for non-military to own such devices.
Is this the world we want?
Janet Ajao - his mother - is an immigrant.
Masood became Masood in an immigrant-dominated mosque.
Most of the mosques in the West are funded and manipulated by Wahabi extremists out of Saudi Arabia. Or worse. Immigrants and the Muslim children of immigrants are acting as carriers for the Wahabi message.
You can go into some "white" American suburb with a bunch of Muslim hate preachers and if - if! - you don't get tossed in prison immediately for running your dog-and-pony show, you'll get a conversion rate of less than .1% from normal citizen to terrorist idiot.
Take the same act to a majority-Muslim neighborhood in a place like the UK or France and you'll get welcomed into one or more mosques, get a sympathetic audience that actually agrees with 50-60% of what you say, AND as an added bonus you'll get somewhere between .1%-1% conversion rate. Most of your good little soldiers will have to deploy in some wartorn country where law enforcement won't wipe them out instantly, but you can get a wingnut like Masood to go ham on Parliament every now and then.
What's the real difference between a religion and any other belief system like nazism, communism or neoconservatism?
They were mad as hatters: that earns them ridicule.
davecb@spamcop.net
The heretics were much worse. Fortunately we were able to kick the most extreme elements of those out of the country to the western colonies, who are now called the USA.
It is now common knowledge that all western governments have so many way to monitor people that it is offensive for them to suggest they need more powers to have more surveillance. That western powers spread their nets so far across our "democracy" and not in a focused manner means they are obviously ineffective in filling their mandate of protecting the people from terrorist threats. And because they are so ineffectual against terrorism they use that as justification to spread their net even wider.
So let us all not pretend that the state has any concern for stopping terrorism because terrorism has no impact on the state, it only impact the populous. If terrorism occurs then that just adds another reason for clamping down on the populous even more. We are being treated with the contempt we deserve for not steadfastly protecting democracy.
For decades Islamic human rights violations went ignored by western powers so any pandering to stopping extremism should be viewed as the bullshit it is. Islamic extremism is a good reason for the state to become even more overt in its quest to police the state because power begets power. And that's good for business because they are who pay for the politicians to operate the inverted totalitarian state we live in.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" ... privately.
09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
In his case he was born in the UK 52 years ago. He had a very British sounding name - Adrian Russell Elms. That suggests his family has been in the UK for even longer. He probably would have originally seemed British in 'Heart and Soul'. Seems he had a history of crime though, and had spent time in prison. From the sounds of it his conversion change of name and radicalisation happened during the time he spent in prison. So he was brainwashed and recruited, rather than being born that way.
The dogma is not taken to be divinely inspired.
Even in a country like China the communist party has passed resolutions criticizing parts of Mao's leadership, it only took decades. In Islam we're millennia on and it would still earn you a death penalty.
Not allowing white genocide is not an option.
So the only alternative is freedom dying, so we can let it proceed without too many trucks and cars of peace incidents upsetting the natives. Onwards to the brown pacified total surveillance future.
Pesky heretics and their doing something with their lives other than paying the church to jog in place for eternity.
I know it when I see it, a Muslim ain't it.
The lesson learnt from the IRA was quite clear. Violence begats only more violence. It is only the call to cooperate to end that violence that is the solution. There is a type of person, aggressive and slow witted, that will commit atrocities in the name of. The name doesn't matter, it could be a religion, or a warped philosophy, or a country. When you speak out in aggression, your blind hatred plain to see, it is obvious that you are part of the problem, not the solution.
"Leftism" isn't a thing. Which one of the many different competing and mutually exclusive political ideologies to your left (by which I'm guessing pretty much all of them) do you mean?
Religion is a disease.
One does not have to be an Islamophobe to be repulsed by killing, whether done in the name of honour or otherwise.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
If you're actually serious about that question... I'll bite.
I'm a Muslim immigrant to Canada. I'm pretty secular now, but the idea that somehow you immigrate and then in the next generation, you're magically Canadian with Western values is just ignorant.
The culture matters. The numbers matter. The government policies matter.
Get enough people of a certain culture in an area and that culture and way of life becomes dominant. I guess if you thin being British/Canadian is just a piece of paper, then maybe this doesn't matter to you.
I have a lot of family in the UK. It really is a different world. Heck, I don't even go. I have family there 2nd/3rd generation where there is total gender segregation, always talk of Sharia...When new immigrants come, they settle around there to keep the community Islamic.This part is key... as you keep bringing in more people who settle there, it really keep the community a certain way. Once you hit a certain threshold, you're basically created a community that stands on its own with its own ideology.
This is not unique to Islam, by any stretch of the imagination.
You can talk to many Muslim immigrant families. Most will tell you the same thing. Well at least in my life, they have. When the community is small, integration is easy. My in-laws for example, came to Canada in the 70s. Hardly modern by any respect. My father-in-law thought nothing of buy someone a bottle of wine as a gift. He wouldn't drink himself. They're not that secular. My wife often complains that her family completely changed as more and more family was brought in. Few used to wear the hijab. Then everyone started and the social moral police started. Dating started to become more of a scandal if people found out a daughter was dating. Aunts who used to date and got married suddenly turned all religious and forbade their daughters from dating. Islamic school suddenly became a thing... People started wearing the niqab and marrying religious people from Asia. Yeah... now I have 2 silly segregated weddings this summer. lol.
This is the cultural problem. It is then layered with political issues. I don't really hang in dangerous circles, but I've seen what it can do. I know a few girls in the extended family who have actually talked positively of going to the Islamic State as that is real Islam. Yeah... girls born in Canada, but such are their values.
I don't blame this all on immigration. You can have high rates of immigration with the necessary social support. I can say that even in Canada, this social support is just not there. My high school was heavily
Indian immigrants. There was virtually no social support. Parents beating kids. Girls disowned for dating. Forced marriages... all happened.
It's just ridiculously ignorant to think none of this matter and because someone is born in Canada/Britain, nothing else matters.
Anyways, enough of a rant. You get the point. Immigration matters, community matters, culture matters, government policies matters...
...they shouldn't have shot him dead then? He was only armed with a knife at that point, and while clearly an extremely dangerous and murderous person, didn't actually need to have been shot three times in the chest in order to stop him.
I'm not suggesting that the police officer who fired on him acted in anything other than the way he was trained to, but if he was still alive, we could have asked him what on earth he thought he was up to. I'd expect that he'd just turn out to be a nutcase, who would have found some other reason to kill people randomly, if he hadn't have found radical Islam first.
Even that response doesn't make any sense, and is exactly the kind of cost that terrorists - to the extent that they even exist as a coherent force - want to visit upon their targets. What good would barriers have done? They'll just drive down a different street next time, it's not like London is suffering from a shortage of sidewalks crowded with pedestrians with a couple of lanes of traffic down the middle.
::cough:: I'll just leave this here... ::cough::
1,400 raped children in the UK by Muslim pedo ring while the UK police looked the other way to "not seem racist." (That's not even exaggerating.)
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-eng...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
I guess ignorance really is bliss.
Willie Dixon wrote it and Howlin' Wolf recorded it before either the Doors or Led Zeppelin were bands.
I don't think you can get any more surveillance around that part of London.
Of course the problem there was not lack of always-on monitoring of everyone in the off chance the police nothing something.
The problem was not encryption of private information.
The problem was leftist control of a council where them hamstrung themselves so tightly that they were ignoring child rape
cases in case they offended a minority group, some of whom were actively raping children..
And yet not one single one of those in positions of power who let this continue to happen are in prison, nor ever likely will be.
Because, you know, they are 'sorry', for allowing children to keep being violently raped.
But no, what we need is more cameras, less privacy, more government control - who cares what they DO with it.
In my opinion, it's always the same problem: one side (conservatives) are closed to immigration and the other side (libtards) are just plain stupid. And this extends to every topic of governance.
Not only if you put a lot of people from Muslim country concentrated in the same place their culture will tend to dominate, but my (french catholic) family living in a dominant Muslim area of France (banlieue of Paris with HLM) was influenced back by the culture. We ate couscous with merguez , and in fact sometimes my mother was saying "Inch'Allah" in place of the equivalent french expression. We were all born in other palce... But after living there 20 years some aspect imprinted onto us. I don't find that negative either to be frank, I am happy I had aspect of the muslim culture imprinted onto me.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
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visit randi.org
Yes there have been a few but all the perpetrators have been prosecuted. Still no sign of the Islamic takeover of the U.K. I keep hearing about.
Thank you for that very sincere and interesting post. Now there is just one thing I'd like to ask you that I didn't quite get: You mention "social support", what kind of social support do you mean? What kind of social support do you think would enable high immigration and still enable integration? Many Western societies have tried throwing money at the problem, and unfortunately that hasn't worked very well.
You can go into some "white" American suburb with a bunch of Muslim hate preachers and if - if! - you don't get tossed in prison immediately for running your dog-and-pony show, you'll get a conversion rate of less than .1% from normal citizen to terrorist idiot.
If we have learned anything from marketing: You have to match your message to the target group. Of course taking a muslim hate preacher to a white suburb won't work. It's hard to convince them that they are the scum of the earth.
If you want to convert people there into terrorists, you need to tell them ACA is bad for them, that lazy immigrants are stealing their jobs, any president could create jobs or any other staple of the white supremacists idiots and they will be willing to bomb blacks/jews/muslims or at least vote Trump.
Those "white" suburbs have the same vulnerabilities. You just have to trigger them slightly different.
bickerdyke
"Please keep the kettle on luv, I'll be a little late for afternoon tea. Politics you know."
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
The difference is of law rather than rights.
You have a right to privacy, but it's not absolute. If you are suspected of a crime with reasonable evidence, a search warrant can be obtained to breach your privacy - namely entering your house and looking at all your stuff. If, on entering your house the police find a locked cellar door, they can ask you to hand of the the key. It's not good refusing to hand over the key on the grounds that it's a breach of your privacy.
Now, suppose the police find out you have a safe deposit box at a bank. They can also approach the bank and politely request entry to your safe deposit box, and with the appropriate warrants, the bank will happily open it up.
All of this is quite legal in most countries. In many cases, law enforcement is simply asking to extend this capability to encrypted data, rather than locked rooms and boxes. I have no objection with this, although there are technical issues with it.
Another wholly separate issue is the desire of authorities to decrypt and read communications of people who aren't suspects and haven't been arrested, using much lower barriers than are required for search warrants.This is much more worrying, and rather like saying that everyone should have a new kind of government approved lock on their front door allowing police to walk into any house if they feel they have the need.
It's important to keep these things separate. I have no problem at all with the UK police reading all of Mr Masood's whatsapp messages, any more than I have a problem with them searching his flat and going through his diaries and his sock draw.
What I do have, is a problem with UK police saying that because they want to do this, whatsapp must design a generally available backdoor.
Unlike safe deposit boxes, which can be broken into even if the suspect destroys the only key in existence, encrypted messages often can't be read if the only key in existence is destroyed. That's a technical problem, and it's not the job of private companies to solve the police's technical problems.
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Approx total deaths from various causes In the last 10 years in the UK: 1000000 cardiovascular issues; 1000000 cancer; 25000 car crashes; 500 carbon monoxide poisoning; 200 drowning in the bath; 5 islamic terrorism. Maybe we need a War on Bath Salesmen?
BAN ALL CARS!
Eat the rich.
It wasn't even his real name, BBC report says he "was entered onto the birth registry in the Dartford district of Kent as Adrian Russell Elms". He wasn't even arabic.
I have a similar anecdote which is not related to religion per se, but it covers cultural shifts too. My East-European country prior to end of WWII was mainly agrarian traditional society. After the war, communists came in power and started forced industrialization, stimulating massive migrations of previously rural inhabitants into cities, which grew, where former farmers became blue-collar working class, or students, then new intelligentsia. It was followed with cultural change, acquiring new habits and ways of life, cultural change and adopting new (Western) taste in clothing, music, and social behaviour. However, nearing the end of the 20th century, apparent became an underground trend which gradually became dominant: those new urbanites obviously suffered from some kind of countryside nostalgia and sort of guilt, and they bought into cheap country-flavoured kitsch and whatever was peddled to them as "traditional", including ethnic differentiation and chauvinism against "historical enemy" ethnic groups. It became fashionable to be "old way", to profess religiousness in blatant ways, to idealize not-at-all-rosy past, to reject democratic values for traditional authoritarianism and wish for "restoration" of prior "greatness" which never actually was.
I'd say that the mechanism behind what you are describing is basically the same: As humans approach the end of their physical existence, most of them start feeling the guilt for straying away from their traditional upbringing. There is ebb and flow in cultural influence. Perhaps they are more willing to change while they are young and need the world, wish to find partners for procreation, various friends to learn from, or co-work with on attaining success in life, but once their thirst for wide social connections wane, their internal wish to satisfy their parents and ancestors pushes them to change their mind back, and then they imprint that on their offspring. Your parents probably got you when they were young and the world was a better place and the things were probably going for the better in your ancestral land, too, with visible benefits from opening up to the world. Alternatively, your parents actually did succeed better then the most, reaped the rewards of cultural change, and I suppose you did well yourself, too.
Hey. I dont know if a sure fire way. But i leave the door open for good government policy to provide social support.
I could see things like social workers working closely with families. Not to take kids away from parents, but to help people parent. Maybe schools can provide services for things like kids threatened with being disowned or beat...
Also i think the general social environment should allow for discussion. Probably the one that annoys me most is that white people actively attack their right wing. Its not socially acceptable today to attack islams right wing. And i dont mean terrorism here. Just social things. I dont care about the hijab but i mean is it a thing to be celebrated? No where else do western people support slut shaming and female modesty dreas codes. Just treat immigrants with the same standards u expect of anyone else.
Same story. The Quran was sent to confirm what was sent before.
Actually not quite. Got was pissed off at Soddom because the Sodomites tried to ass-rape one of his angels (no really, go look it up). The anti Greek propaganda (the bits about not being gay) are elsewhere.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Corporations are above the law already anyway, the law only applies to peasants, not royalty.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Religion IS a disease. Actually, it's a mental disorder. The very definition of "delusion" according to the ICD-10 F22.0 is a pretty good description of a religion.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Uhhh... Allah is kinky!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Confirm... others would say copying an entertaining story is better than writing a boring one yourself.
Religions are just lucky that copyright wasn't a thing back then. Or every single of them would get into trouble with Mesopotamia for the flood story.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Yeah, so he saved the man who instead offered his daughters to be raped.
A good US-based god would have sent Lot some guns to make short work of the guys outside. There is this little known artist rendition of what really happened.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Hush! That's not the part you should correct them on.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
A mental disorder.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Seriously, she's Britain's answer to Sarah Palin. Or rather, an answer to a question nobody asked.
And while Palin is at least a looker, Rudd also has this "used car" air about her. This woman has so far in her total career never said a single sentence that wasn't a tear-soaked platitude, an "outraged demand" that simply echoed what everyone else has already been saying or simply and plainly stupid. I really have no idea what service she could provide other than being the bad example on how NOT to do something.
Seriously. When asked at her funeral to say anything good about her, all you can sensibly say is "she died".
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
How many rapes by catholic priests and society looked the other way? Not that I am saying that this is any kind of excuse...
When 1person suffers from a delusion,it is called insanity.When many people suffer from a delusion,it is called religion
It shows how little Amber Rudd and those briefing her understand about the technologies they want to combat when she calls out WordPress as a "platform", and states they need to cooperate with the intelligence community.
See this for a slightly terrifying read.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/26/amber-rudd-social-media-firms-must-do-stop-terror/
Originally named Adrian born in leafy Tunbridge Wells... Only became Muslim in his 40's after a violent past and several spells in Jail ...
Not an immigrant, not born a Muslim, not on the Security services radar ...
Puteulanus fenestra mortis
And how would you define what being "British in heart and soul" is?
Easy see how the perform at football hooliganism.
Time to offend someone
Yeah, so he saved the man who instead offered his daughters to be raped
Oh yeah I forgot that bit!
SJW n. One who posts facts.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" ... privately.
Looks like that is easily arranged, as the allahu-akbar crowd would happily arrange for your death while you defend their right to say what they want - privately
Facts?
1) There are thousands of people who profess open borders, and they're left wing.
2) They also believe in sanctuary cities or counties, so there's your amnesty.
The only debatable point is proper screening, and in the US, clearly the left is against further screening than there is now, so there's some contention over what's considered "proper".
That's at least 2 out of 3 though.
Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
That's the telling difference. If someone became a Soviet and swore allegiance to the KGB, he could/would be removed, and shift from London to Leningrad, if he didn't get arrested. If someone becomes a Muslim and swears allegiance to ISIS, it's just a case of changing his religion, and since it's a major religion in 50 countries, he can't be deported to any of those. So native Brits or other Westerners who convert to Islam just get to stay, since it's no different from converting from, say, the Anglican Church to Roman Catholic, or from Christianity to Sikhism, or Buddhism to Scientology, right?
Of course, courts wouldn't allow the government to block even foreign citizens who can't be vetted, let alone look at citizens going rogue. So nothing to stop random Westerners from converting to Islam and then spreading mayhem
The quickest way to shut up a bible thumper?
"Gimme the definition of a 'kind' of animal"
There isn't one that doesn't make the whole Genesis chapter 6 absurd.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
"Gimme the definition of a 'kind' of animal"
I wasn't really aware of that one. Also appears to be similarly unclear wording in Genesis 1:24ish.
There isn't one that doesn't make the whole Genesis chapter 6 absurd.
Not just Genesis! Exodus is delightfully absurd too in exactly the same way as "the big rock candy mountain", but without knowing it is (I'll expound if you're interested).
Speaking of fundies, I've got a Talmudic Troll I'd love to try, but haven't got the chance to yet. Feel free if you (a) agree, (b) get to opportunity and (c) find it entertaining. So the provision against using electricity on the sabbath is all about the "thou shalt not strike a spark" and back when they made the ruling, electricity was all big knife switches, carbon brushes and arc lamps kind of deal which do indeed strike many sparks. Modern solid state electronics do not, so my interpretation is it's perfectly allowed to use, for example, a (non samsung) cellphone on the sabbath according to a strict reading of both the original text and the Talmudic interpretation.
Speaking of biblical interpretation (I am an atheist, btw)---have you recently read the parable of the prodigal son? I don't think it's a parable about redemption as is generally put forth. I think it's a parable about how prone peope are to taking things for granted, or (darker) advice on how not to create a rod for your own back.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
If you want to keep a free society, what you need to do is think smart. You need more physical protection from vehicles to: sidewalks, crosswalks, parking lot paths, etc. It's going to be a financial pain..
The key factor in immigration flows is to assimilate the newcomers such that they don't end up clustering and forming what are, effectively, colonies of foreign nations on our soil. The US has generally succeeded in that, whereas it appears that Canada and the Europeans have failed miserably.
Wow, pretty ignorant comment, and I know better than to feed the trolls, but...
Muslims don't claim "exclusive self-correctness/righteousness", rather God has told us in the Qur'aan that anyone who believes in Him Alone without associating partners, and His Messengers and the Last Day will have their reward with God.
However, most people, including majority of Muslims will enter hellfire first (God knows best who and how many), that includes anyone who prays, fasts, does charitable deeds, etc. Because of other sins and selfishness, and taking advantages of others, killing, etc, but especially doing good deeds to show-off (which is a form of associating partners with God).
Islam came to supplant other religions/way of life, as God tells us in the Qur'aan that many (countless) Messengers and Prophets have been sent before, including Moses and Jesus, but their message was only meant for their people for a few generations before another Warner was sent. The first Prophet was Adam (to his own children), and the last being Muhammad (to all generations).
If praying gets you to heaven, then god dammit, pray fucking continuously till you starve and die and go to heaven sooner
Perhaps that message would be more fittingly directed towards Buddhists and Monks?
No religion or Warner came after Islam and Muhammad because God told us explicitly that this would be the final message to humanity and final Prophet.
However, we (like the Christian, and some-what Jews) also believe that Jesus will return to re-establish peace and once again correct people who had deviated away from the straight path.
You would do justice to your own self and your soul by reading the Qur'aan with an open mind, but more importantly, open heart. As the Qur'aan states, "God doesn't guide the criminals, rebellious, and hard-hearted people".
If you want to know the real life of Muhammad as based on evidence, then watch the "Seerah" lecture series by Sheikh Yasir Qadhi on YouTube.
Peace.
He was born in Kent (south-east England), and his name was Adrian. Absolutely nothing about his situation (his upbringing, his recent history, what the police investigation has so far uncovered) suggests that your plan is relevant to the attack last Wednesday.
In addition, how do you enforce and assess such a requirement, that people "become citizens of that country in heart and soul". In a native white middle class Englishman, born in Leicester to British parents, and I'm not sure that I feel British in my heart and soul, I'm not sure what it means. Maybe it is more obvious if you're an American, but British people don't really have this swearing allegiance to the flag type of patriotism, it isn't at all natural to us.
Because of relativism and "all cultures are equal" bullshit. The western world is gonna kill itself by doing nothing
I'm not sure what the larger point is that you're trying to make. It seems like you are trying to suggest that Islam is incompatible with western culture and values, but in order to do this you find it necessary to assume (or at least claim) that Adrian/Khalid changed his name explicitly to break his ties with his British heritage.
In order to sustain this claim, you have to believe that people can have an identity that is only one dimensional - that someone can't be both a devout Muslim and a British patriot at the same time (as well as having many other identities).
Why can't a person be a Muslim and honourable Brit (or American) at the same time?
The subsequent claim you make about a similar case with a man changing his name to a Russian variant is not equivalent because Russia is a country whereas Islam is not - changing your name to a Russian name is an explicitly political (or at least a politically tinged cultural) act, whereas changing your name to an Islamic one is not a political act (unless it is explicitly done for political rather than religious reasons, i.e. it can be but it isn't necessarily so).
I don't dispute that some Muslims living in western nations can and do put their Islamic culture above that of their country's. I just don't see why that is automatically the case here.
Finally, the slightly childish claim to be the victim of unfair treatment at the end of your post is both unnecessary and counter productive - it makes your (already weak) argument easy to dismiss as being born of resentment rather than conviction
I've said this a few times on this thread already, so I apologise if I'm repeating myself, but there is no evidence so far that he was either radicalised, brainwashed and recruited, or that his attacked had anything to do with Islam. It may have been the case, but there is so far no evidence of it.
It is not uncommon for people to find religion in prison (has no-one watched HBO's Oz!) but it doesn't automatically mean that he was some kind of Islamic fanatic.
The problem was leftist control of a council where them hamstrung themselves so tightly that they were ignoring child rape
cases in case they offended a minority group
The problem was that police and officials had been trained badly so they wrongly believed that arresting criminal immigrants would be 'racist' and therefore shouldn't be done. That they could get this impression suggests to me that everyone involved, including the 'diversity' trainers, was a stupid bigot.
What kind of social support do you think would enable high immigration and still enable integration?
Language and civics classes. Teach people what kind of country they have come to, which behaviours are expected and which are unacceptable.
Rather than let new people head straight to their ethnic ghetto and forget about them, spread them out across the country and help them find homes and jobs, or start businesses, in those places. Don't let ghettos develop.
+1
How about you put up some citations instead of asking an open-ended question and implying that the number is higher?
Atheist myself, just very much enjoying poking fun at religions and watching fundies squirm when busting a hernia from the mental gymnastics they attempt to defend their holy books.
Genesis 6 is especially great material (plus Leviticus, that book is a wealth of insanity). But Gen6 already starts off with a huge problem: God regretting making human. Because that's the one thing god cannot do if he's supposed to be the god of the bible: He cannot regret anything.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Thanks.
However, what most people, and clearly the documentary author, still don't seem to realise is that the Qur'aan is primarily transmitted orally, while the written text is just a back-up. I know what you're thinking - Chinese whispers? Well for some reason, it doesn't apply to the Qur'aan (as we believe God Himself has chosen to protect it).
The proof of that is simple, attend any mosque, and watch the imaam perform the morning, or evening prayer reading the Qur'aan without any text - and if he makes even a slight mistake, you'll notice at least several people behind the imaam instantly correct him; going so far as to correct the pronunciation as well as missing a single letter during recital. Most Muslims in the world should know at least 1 or 2 chapters of the Qur'aan from memory, I myself know several with correct pronunciation ("tajweed").
Or attend the mosque during Ramadan and watch the imaam recite the entire Qur'aan from memory, sometimes he may make a mistake, but it's instantly picked up and corrected by us following the recital.
Just to point out, the Arabic Qur'aan when it's translated, such as in English, is no longer considered the Qur'aan, it's just an interpretation.
And thus, if all the Qur'aan copies in the world were destroyed, a handful of Muslims can get together to recreate it from memory within a matter of day(s).
Atheist myself, just very much enjoying poking fun at religions and watching fundies squirm when busting a hernia from the mental gymnastics they attempt to defend their holy books.
I've found that people have often assumed I don't know the bible at all because I'm an atheist. I'd say I have a working knowledge and an interest too (it's undoubtedly had a huge influence in shaping my culture). I wouldn't say it's universal, but it's not that uncommon for theists to be surprisingly knowledgable about the bible.
I generally prefer the fire, brimstone and utterly bonkers randomness of the old testament, though the new testament has some remarkably insightful things to say about human nature I think.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
I went to a catholic school for a good portion of my education. Nothing had more influence on me becoming an Atheist than those years.
Mostly 'cause we did read the bible a lot. The bible is a lot like Mein Kampf. I'm pretty sure a lot of atrocities could have been avoided if more people had actually read the works of their leaders and learned just how much bullshit the stuff they're supposed to follow is.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
If i was understood.
I meant white people can attack their right wing.
We cannot attack our right wing because people jump to defend cultural practices.