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Drupal Developers Threaten To Quit Drupal Unless Larry Garfield Is Reinstated (drupalconfessions.org)
An anonymous reader writes: Slashdot previously covered the story of Larry Garfield, a Drupal developer who was allegedly banned from the community for his BDSM/Gorean lifestyle, after he was outed by a colleague with a grudge. Now, dozens of core Drupal developers, committers, and funders have banded together in an open letter to Dries Buytaert, the CTO of Acquia, Drupal trademark owner, and Benevolent Dictator for Life (BDFL) of the Drupal project. Among other things, they demand that Larry Garfield be reinstated, threatening to abandon the project if their demands are not met. Here's an excerpt from the letter: "If you will not fight for us and restore our faith in the professionalism of the Drupal community, then a number of us will be permanently leaving the Drupal community, ceasing all contributions to the official, Drupal-branded branch of the codebase, and ceasing participation in all Drupal communities. This is not our first choice, but we cannot and will not participate in a community that encourages abusers to totally destroy people's careers for personal or ideological reasons."
Trump is a failure and his supporters have small cocks.
this is unequivocally great. good for them.
Drupal is crap software, maybe it's time the old guard all step down and let actual good programmers take over. Everyone wins!
With the god awful state of drupal I had assumed developers had long since abandoned it
It would be a boring world if people could not enjoy some socially-unaccepted hobbies in private without fearing for their employment.
Would it be okay to launch an Internet-wide Two Minutes' Hate against them to put pressure on their employer? (Assume, perhaps, that they're in some leadership position â" like, say, CTO.)
The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
Recruit based on skill not history - if the group is so obnoxious, can them all.
I think these signators don't understand what they're protesting. The letter is shot through with social justice language, but Larry Garfield follows a misogynistic creed and there is nothing wrong with ousting him. The Gorean philosophy is based on the principle that women are evolutionarily predisposed to serve men and that the natural order is for men to dominate and lead. This is inconsistent with the goals of project Drupal and is not a free speech issue. This creed is of the kind that no organization, especially at a progressive open source project, should endorse or give a platform to.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
If it doesn't affect their work, counter examples being excessive drinking or drug taking. I dislike cats (they shit in my garden and eat garden birds) but will work with people that own them.
The key words here are mutual consent and boundaries. He was not asking or coercing any of his coworkers to join him. So, I'm with the letter writers.
On y va, qui mal y pense!
Once you sack a person, you cannot re-instate them. They hold grudges for being sacked, they act like they're bigger than their boss and many other personality traits make it impossible.
So he cannot re-instate this developer, right or wrong. All Dries can do is sack others who outed the developer for their political attacks on the private lives of their fellow Drupal developers.
That would be the maximum, he'll probably just say some calming words and move on with it.
It is free speech, you just don't like his views. His views have nothing to do with Drupal and you put forward no evidence that he did anything unprofessional in his Drupal work.
"This creed is of the kind that no organization, especially at a progressive open".... do you have a wife? If your wife holds the view that men should dominate women.. is that ok with you? Or does she rule herself out of wife hood and employment because of it?
It would be a boring world if people could not enjoy some socially-unaccepted hobbies in private without fearing for their employment.
Hobby?
For crying out loud, he kept a sex slave for several years. The sex slave was a vulnerable highly-autistic woman. She also had social agoraphobia. Garfield then passed her on to a friend of his.
Please, where can I find a nubile girl who will let me fuck her in the ass?
He called for the death of all thinking people. He wanted us arrested and beaten to death. That is the way of his xian kind.
That's nothing. I call for total genocide of all living things.
He wanted less control of marriage by the government. That proves he is a Nazi. We need more government control.
Open source project. Major schism in the developer base.
DEAD
The asshole who thought he was in charge killed it.
Thinking people don't marry and he did. That proves him to be stupid.
support free speech online
Blue Ribbon Campaign
So do I. You can't always get what you want.
But if you try sometimes well you might find you get what you need...
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Politics, bedroom antics, sports, reading habits, religion - none of it should be a firing offence and those bosses who think they should own people instead of employ them are the problem.
I don't even know what proposition 8 is (maybe I heard but forgot) but whatever politics someone has it shouldn't matter in the workplace unless you are directly working for a political group on political matters. So you do plumbing for the Republicans? Who cares if you used to support Castro.
...what is the issue here? I don't get it.
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
This. More control is needed.
Never met a smart married person.
I have no mod points. Parent is spot on. There is a huge qualitative difference between these two.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
If you quit there is no severance, this is a perfect time to out source most of the development without having to have a messy layoff process. Simple sit back and wait for all the developers quit.
After all, if even the big boss says "Grab her by the pussy", you gotta follow.
Fall in line and toe the party line, damn commies!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
This is a complex matter, way beyond "personal life".
Because this is brought into the open, supporting this Larry is supporting this philosophy. Gender equality and male dominance are a very touchy subject in the technology industry, rightly so, too.
On the other side, banning Larry is supporting the tactics by this disgruntled colleague. Not something you want to support either.
Personally, I would throw them both out and damn the consequences but I am one to put principles over practicalities.
As I said on the previous post about this situation, who cares? His code still works, and there are no allegations that he's trying to fuck the other contributors or for that matter, practicing his kinks with anyone who's not consenting to how he gets his rocks off.
However repugnant "goreanism" might be, I'm rather more repulsed by someone like you demanding that hackers pass some kind of political purity test. Go fuck yourself.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
My bet is that developers were, in general, in doubt about or unhappy with the direction of the Drupal project to begin with. Instead of admitting that the project was not on sound ground, this is a convenient out for the community. Note that I have no evidence to back this up, just speculation. But I think it's a possibility. It seems doubtful that a lot of big players would threaten to abandon a project that is making them oodles of money.
Don't get me wrong, I'm really happy to see this sort of support emerge but they are being hypocrites.
> We reject harassment, intimidation, and bullying of professionals in the name of moral crusading.
This is *exactly what they are doing*. They are trying to intimidate the CTO (a professional) with the threat of harming Drupal in the name of a moral crusade. Hardly a rejection of that behaviour..
Exactly. Donating money to people that thing we're subhuman just because we're immoral is something all thinking people know is wrong. He was a moron and couldn't program. Their kind is not logical.
"but we cannot and will not participate in a community that encourages abusers to totally destroy people's careers for personal or ideological reasons." ... unless they're one's we disagree with. C'mon - this is crap. If his sexual preference was for young children, or he misogynist who refused to hire women then noone would have a problem with this. This is just a bunch of people who are pushing their own agenda, just like the people who fired him.
The facts of life are the people with the money get to pick their workers, and even if those people quit there are plenty of people who can replace them. And those people will be less likely to try to hold their employer hostage with the threat of quitting and draining the company of intellectual property.
The best course of action would be to let these people go (even if they're right) - they are not the people you want working at your company. Sure, it might take six months to get back up to speed, but it is worth it to get rid of those people.
...against sex slavery.
Also, simpletons who take the reductive position that everything can be reduced to market mechanisms can fuck right off.
What we've learned from this is that a large proportion of Drupal developers would happily enslave disabled women. The project has more reasons for dying off now than just being technically shit, although maybe these pusillanimous masturbators just wanted the perfect excuse to jump a sinking ship.
I can see both sides: The commercial product doesn't want the bad press attached to product. The OSS developers say that they're giving free support son what someone does in their bedroom shouldn't matter. Personally I side with the developers. But I respect the commercial services discussion.
Having said that: if the developers are that passionate they should branch the code. Start their own project. Maybe make it their own commercial product.
You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
I have actually met a number of women who *DO* think that is an acceptable lifestyle tradeoff, some sexual abuse victims, some not. Not a lifestyler myself either, but online you tend to meet a *LOT* of kink sceners if you prove tolerant and non-judgemental of others lifestyle choices.
Having said that: trying to judge how other people live their lives, outside of ensuring they have a 'way out' if they ever decide they no longer desire that lifestyle is a really shitty attitude to have in a country that was founded on alternative lifestyles, whether religious or involving power play (which I will note many early peopels, both natives and colonists seemed to partake in, judging by the slave trade, abuse of natives and rape/war brides.)
Gah, you've said Drupal so many times it's like its not even a word any more!
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
That's how I know I hit the mark.
Now I'm never going to stop making these points.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Can't we have a straight normal heterosexual as a developer for once?
As a radical leftist, feminist, and someone who's been labeled an SJW many times in her life, Gorean fantasy, BDSM, and whatever consenting adults want to do with each other in a fantasy setting is their own private affairs. So long as theres proper consent and aftercare and everyone's enjoying themselves safely who the heck cares!?
If he was bringing those mindsets into the workplace or outside of the context of scenes and fantasy, imposing it on others without consent, then there'd be a huge problem. Otherwise, let people live their lives, have their fun, be themselves, etc!
I don't understand why this is a hard concept for people.
AC because I CBA to remember what my login is.
- Erin
Now we can work on outing those filthy trekkies and driving them out of drupal too.
Their personal beliefs sicken me and their behaviour?
I swear...
They're Nothing but tribble.
As an Educator in Second Life, it pains me to see yet another misconception tainting both the platform and the individuals using it.
I know Gor well, it is an opt-in, totally user-choice, sub-set within Second Life. The concept of BDSM is secondary within Gof to the point of almost being perfunctory.
I suspect that Larry Garfield has no connection with SL beyond the two words BDSM and Gor. It's a sad day when people's careers are needlessly impeded by others who presume they know, without knowing.
The Drupal project would be well-served to jettison Larry Garfield from the project as an individual like this that is so narrow-thinking, is likely to make other mistakes when it comes to the code and direction of the project.
Just an Educators view.
Why not? Why can they spend their time ans energy and resources to further their political views but I can't for mine? Be specific. And note that I am not Congress.
The guy likes to treat (consenting) women as slaves, and thinks they deserve to be treated that way, per the Gorian lifestyle.
That will overflow into his work life one way or another.
Whether they take him back or they don't, they're going to lose devs. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Islam as an idea, not the people. Why is wanting to nonviolently stop a religion extreme?
If this guy had been dumped because he voted for Prop 8 in CA or contributed to Trump, these pansy developers would throw him under the bus without reservation.
I guess some personal or ideological reasons are more equal than others.
That position is exactly as valid as saying that the opposition to "Social Justice" is merely a bunch of amoral recalcitrants.
But really you're just using "Social Justice" to mean "people I don't like". Because to the degree that that has anything to do with this subject, basically the strongest argument that can be brought to bear would be that the "slave" women have internalized the Patriarchy to the point of self-degradation. But if you're wont to hold that opinion, there are quite a few things higher on the list than private sex games.
What you're doing is virtue signaling. It's not very intelligent and rather boring.
Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
That's bullshit. For most Goreans, it's just another background for their personal BDSM play. And there are many kinks that might be politically uncorrect, but nobody should care as long as they are done by consenting adults. Since I'm active in the BDSM scene, I know many people and almost none of them believe that their personal relationship model preference should somehow be forced upon everyone else.
While this is actually an interesting point, I see one difference: Voting for Prop8 would actually lead to people suffering. It's something that objectively makes life harder for some people. Roleplaying some fantasy BDSM in your bedroom (or wherevere you want) with other consenting adults WITHOUT ever treating someone outside differently for it does not make life harder for anyone and does not lead to someone suffering (at least not someone who doesn't want that). So, since there was no accusation of him actually treating women worse or forcing himself onto them because of his sexual preferences, the comparison to Prop8 voters is (imho) not quite correct: Nobody was ever harmed by his private bedroom games.
Never thought the community would unite behind such a twisted deviant.
He's a Drupal developer for fucks sake.
We don't even want those disgusting fume emitting tobacco burners within 100 meters of our building.
But vaping? Totally fine man.
HMM.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
there can be only one!
that is why he was outed!
i feel the quickenning!
-CTO
and his parallel ATA66 IDE Primary channel HDD is Slave to a Master CDROM drive...
you could poke an eye out.
Codes of Conduct area bad idea to begin with. They are just vessels for intersectionalists to wield faux authority over adults that don't care about their ludicrous ideology, institutionalizing thought police and virtue signalling instead of meritocracy. It's the oppression olympics.
If a project or group has a CoC, it should merely read:
1) Don't be an asshole to other group members.
2) If you are called out for being an asshole to another member, apologize.
3) If you don't think you were being an asshole, ask someone else. If they think you were being an asshole, maybe you were, think about apologizing.
4) Repetitive assholery gets you booted.
5) Realize when a joke is just a joke, and don't be offended at every goddamn thing.
6) If you are repeatedly offended by everything, maybe you are the problem and can't get along with others. Stop harassing productive adults.
7) Don't be an asshole to other group members. Yes, this is repeated.
Because that religion isn't the evil Christianity.
The Gorean lifesyle is disgusting! Spending your days giving global warming lectures and pretending you invented the internet is no way to live your life.
After reading Larry's blog post (and I recommend reading the whole thing) - I've come away realizing Drupal is in the wrong here, and the community is absolutely right to stand up for him. This isn't a man publicly arguing women are less than men. It's a man who is into BDSM and who enjoys a master slave relationship within the context of his romantic/sex life in a way that is wonderfully aware of active consent. That's fine. Some men and women enjoy being dominated, others enjoy dominating. Some like that to mix with how they live life - and that's also fine.
What isn't fine is ignoring the Gorean side of this or failing to see the problems with that culture - just as we need to see the problems with any culture (for example Judeo/Christrian/Muslim culture and how they view apostates, women, and non-believers). I believe we can be critical without blaming everyone in those cultures or destroying those cultures. It's fine to disagree and debate.
Drupal should reinstate this guy (since that seems to be what he wants. Though personally I'd argue he should join a programming community that better respects diversity and values people more.
Lastly I'll add this. It is worth considering that viewing women as less then men can be harmful, even deadly. It leads to treating people as mere objects, restricting their human rights, etc. Look at women in Saudi Arabia for instance. But I'm far more worried about that threat coming from conservative fundamentalist religions than from a sex subculture inspired by novels.
The obvious passage above should have read: Let's go ahead and postulate that he has only ever been in situations which have involved informed consent, because that is irrelevant to the issue at hand.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
If you haven't figured out yet that intentionally harming people is wrong, the GP can't help you.
Somebody once told me that's how god works...during a BDSM session.
xD
Islam as an idea, not the people. Why is wanting to nonviolently stop a religion extreme?
Nice try, but if you read some of her quotes you'd notice ones advocating that the "west" use military means to "defeat" Islam. You don't engage in a military solution against ideas. You don't bomb ideas. You bomb the people who have the ideas.
A dog cannot say "yes", nor give you consent to other... activities, so it's animal abuse.
Fascinating.
... almost none of them believe that their personal relationship model preference should somehow be forced upon everyone else.
IOW, some do. At least you are honest enough not to invoke the 'no-true-scotsman' fallacy
OTOH clearly some who are accepted in the BDSM community DO believe in actual coercion and slavery. I already knew this as I have read some of their writings.
So there is no blanket rule as to how to deal with people in this 'lifestyle'. Each one has to be carefully evaluated as to their true beliefs and actions.
TLDR: Consent. What a strange game. The only winning move is not to play.
Are you trolling? Mildest BDSM photo ever.
The fucking collar is on a dog-chain single finger release. The woman has complete control over her situation (absent of course psychological manipulation, but the photo is not evidence of that.
Would you ban someone who displays Mapplethorpe?
Yeah, you can't peacefully stop all thought even on a forbidden topic. Everyone taking part in it has to willingly agree to give it up. Assuming that's impossible - and it is impossible - even a peaceful method of erasing ideas from other peoples minds would be tyranny.
You label all 14 year old boys as sexual predators.
This disqualifies you from any opinions on this complicated, nuanced subject.
Gorean is a Dominant / Submissive variant where males are very macho dominant and females are slutty submissive. It is based on an old (1960s-1970s) series of fantasy novels by John Norman.
Worst CMS ever. Let the project die and get these people doing something worthy of their talents and skills.
Now that's a Freudian slip to be proud of!
Also maybe talk to some people and crack open some books AC. If you get out more and find out a bit more about the world you won't see women as being so alien and you'll see your "Why are some forms of bigotry legal, and others a crime" as ridiculous and embarrassing.
Eich was forced out for the horrible crime of expressing a political opinion shared by the overwhelming majority of the American populace and considered obviously-correct for all of history until the last five years.
Down with democracy! Down with the moral teachings of all major world religions! Down with happy healthy childhood! Long live financial oligarchy! Long live sodomy! Long live emotionally damaged children!
This is the Progressive future. Don't like it? Too bad - it's going to be forced on you literally at gunpoint. Why? Fuck you, plebians, that's why!
If it is a part of your "lifestyle" to force your opinions on others who are unwilling
You mean like voting?
Dries MUST act in the Open Source way. Consult the users in a democratic manner, and execute the outcome.
If not he will loose much more than just Larry. he might loose it all.
Look how Mark Shuttleworth reversed on Unity. Dries can do that too. Bring back Larry.
If it is a part of your "lifestyle" to force your opinions on others who are unwilling
You mean like voting?
And interesting response. My first thought is that voting is a rather minimal use of force, but when a block votes that that is no longer minimal, so they should expect another block to act against them, and to publicly encourage others to act against them. I'm not really satisfied that this entirely addresses your point, however.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
I don't know where you think you are posting but I think I'm posting in a comments section attached to a story about Larry Garfield being fired by Dries Buytaert for what he got up to in his bedroom outside of work time.
I have not even mentioned Eich before. I'm not even sure what he is supposed to have done let alone defending him for it. Is this just your baggage or is it actually related in some way?
i have only one question: how many women signed that letter? i wonder... (oh yes, how is that relevant? why should they matter anyway? oh yeah, what the hell am i thinking, they don't. never mind...)
and, as one comment points out: hobbies should be private and not result in public consequences. really? degrading women because you think women deserve to and should be degraded is a hobby? you're weird.
and as i glance up i see this: a nazi who furthers his ideology peacefully. are you fucking kidding me? do you realize nazi-ism was "peaceful" for years until it suddenly wasn't.
what's the fucking iq average around here?
Beats me.