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Drupal Developers Threaten To Quit Drupal Unless Larry Garfield Is Reinstated (drupalconfessions.org)
An anonymous reader writes: Slashdot previously covered the story of Larry Garfield, a Drupal developer who was allegedly banned from the community for his BDSM/Gorean lifestyle, after he was outed by a colleague with a grudge. Now, dozens of core Drupal developers, committers, and funders have banded together in an open letter to Dries Buytaert, the CTO of Acquia, Drupal trademark owner, and Benevolent Dictator for Life (BDFL) of the Drupal project. Among other things, they demand that Larry Garfield be reinstated, threatening to abandon the project if their demands are not met. Here's an excerpt from the letter: "If you will not fight for us and restore our faith in the professionalism of the Drupal community, then a number of us will be permanently leaving the Drupal community, ceasing all contributions to the official, Drupal-branded branch of the codebase, and ceasing participation in all Drupal communities. This is not our first choice, but we cannot and will not participate in a community that encourages abusers to totally destroy people's careers for personal or ideological reasons."
It would be a boring world if people could not enjoy some socially-unaccepted hobbies in private without fearing for their employment.
Would it be okay to launch an Internet-wide Two Minutes' Hate against them to put pressure on their employer? (Assume, perhaps, that they're in some leadership position â" like, say, CTO.)
The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
O yes all good devs just love to take over projects from crappy devs.
Please txt me the number to your dealer i want what you are smoking
If it doesn't affect their work, counter examples being excessive drinking or drug taking. I dislike cats (they shit in my garden and eat garden birds) but will work with people that own them.
The key words here are mutual consent and boundaries. He was not asking or coercing any of his coworkers to join him. So, I'm with the letter writers.
On y va, qui mal y pense!
Once you sack a person, you cannot re-instate them. They hold grudges for being sacked, they act like they're bigger than their boss and many other personality traits make it impossible.
So he cannot re-instate this developer, right or wrong. All Dries can do is sack others who outed the developer for their political attacks on the private lives of their fellow Drupal developers.
That would be the maximum, he'll probably just say some calming words and move on with it.
First, someone's personal life is their business. We are supposed to be building code, not snooping.
Second, he was doxxed. Fruit of the poison tree.
Third, maybe most importantly, who cares what you have to say about Gorean philosophy. They are BDSM addicts who play too much D&D.
Fourth, someone was genuinely hurt by seeing this doxxed screenshot. Let's not forget the victim.
https://twitter.com/DrupalScar... ... with that in mind, we can't do something to keep the two separated? It's a HUGE community. Take him off session selection if you want. Chase him out - we can do better than that. We're supposed to be innovators. Find a better way.
False. Ask her.
Open source project. Major schism in the developer base.
DEAD
The asshole who thought he was in charge killed it.
False. Larry does not follow any such creed. He plays at it. Play, fantasy.
He does say that it is his contention that some women enjoy this some of the time. He would appear to be correct as he has a number of active feminist ex-lovers supporting him. Reports of his general behaviour with and to women have been described by women and men (how would they know!) as exemplary.
There are also Gorean groups where gender is reversed. So what?
There is a difference between fantasy and real life. Accept that.
If he treated people as you claim you would have a point but he does not do so and you do not have a point.
If it doesn't affect their work, counter examples being excessive drinking or drug taking. I dislike cats (they shit in my garden and eat garden birds) but will work with people that own them.
The key words here are mutual consent and boundaries. He was not asking or coercing any of his coworkers to join him. So, I'm with the letter writers.
--
Honi soit qui mal y pense
So do I. You can't always get what you want.
But if you try sometimes well you might find you get what you need...
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Give a platform to? Did he use the open source project to promote his lifestyle?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Politics, bedroom antics, sports, reading habits, religion - none of it should be a firing offence and those bosses who think they should own people instead of employ them are the problem.
I don't even know what proposition 8 is (maybe I heard but forgot) but whatever politics someone has it shouldn't matter in the workplace unless you are directly working for a political group on political matters. So you do plumbing for the Republicans? Who cares if you used to support Castro.
So ... Stephen King should be arrested? I mean, read his books, that's sick shit this guy is into!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
...what is the issue here? I don't get it.
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
What if your hobby is being intolerant of other peoples' hobbies?
Wait? WTF did you just say? You just said it didn't affect their work, so how could you possibly then say it is an exception? If I fit shows up for work every day, bangs out quality work with a positive attitude, what business of yours is it if he uses drugs including Alcohol on his own time? Brainwashed by the government much?
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
he kept a sex slave for several years.
That's outrageous! What does he think he is, a Saudi royal?
Has this alleged "slave" filed charges against him?
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
As I said on the previous post about this situation, who cares? His code still works, and there are no allegations that he's trying to fuck the other contributors or for that matter, practicing his kinks with anyone who's not consenting to how he gets his rocks off.
However repugnant "goreanism" might be, I'm rather more repulsed by someone like you demanding that hackers pass some kind of political purity test. Go fuck yourself.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
I think you missed the keyword "excessive" in GP's post.
"Excessive" being the amount where it starts to affect people other than just yourself.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
You don't understand. Social Justice is all about power: the power to tell others how to live their lives, how to act, how to speak. It's certainly not about making the world a better place. And conformance won't mean you will be left alone or even tolerated, it just means they will find something else to control you with.
So this guy is into an alternative lifestyle. Good for him, I say. Now his fellow developers support him. That makes them good people too, in my book.
Well, she agrees she is autistic but was never his slave. He was just someone that helped her. According the her anyway. I am beginning to suspect people who make lurid up that are contrary to all evidence.
What if Larry Garfield was the bottom instead of the dom? Would that be acceptable to you? Or what about if his submissive girlfriend had a job at Drupal and didn't want to stop being submissive? Would you want her fired as well? Do you see what I'm getting at? If they're both consenting adults, why do we need to mess with their sexual identities?
And I do think that the anonymous scared drupalista on Twitter is being unfair to the guy. How would you react if an anonymous heterosexual man said he was afraid of sharing the stage at a drupal conference with a gay man? You'd call that person out. After all, most gay men don't go out raping heterosexual men (either on stage or even in private). And yes, the heterosexual man may be completely disgusted by the gay dude, but he has to get over his disgust of sharing the stage with him and get over his desire to punish/change the gay guy.
Last I remember, Drupal's mission wasn't to change people's perfectly legal sexual identities or fetishes.
Not so much power as privilege - private law. Power usually has responsibilities accompanying it and they sure do not want to be responsible for anything.
Someone who's a BDSM "slave" isn't usually a real slave, they're just pretending because they and their partner enjoy it. It's like how someone who dresses up in a nurse uniform to have sex isn't usually a real nurse, they're just pretending because they and their partner enjoy it.
A BDSM "slave" has agreed in advance what they'll do and what their limits are, and has a safeword that would stop everything as soon as they say it. People into BDSM are generally much MORE concerned about consent than the average person - because we push the envelope so much, we have to know that the emergency stop will work. And there's usually a lot of love and caring in the relationship, just like in a "vanilla" (non-BDSM) relationship, although the feelings might be expressed differently.
And are you saying that "vulnerable highly-autistic women" are not allowed to have any kinks? I have no knowledge of the people involved, but it seems plausible to me that she got a man to love and care for her, look after her, help structure her life, and have a fulfilling sexual relationship with, and he got a woman to love and care for him as best she could (those things can be difficult for an autistic person), and an obedient partner in life and in bed - that seems like a relationship which is positive for both the people involved.
As for the "passed her on to a friend of his", well, relationships sometimes end. Sad but true, both for BDSM and "vanilla" (non-BDSM) relationships. If he still cared for her, then helping her find someone else seems like a generous thing to do that would be good for her. Especially if, due to her issues, she would have had problems being on her own and/or finding someone else. And if they're looking for someone for her, then their circle of friends would be the first place to look, because they know and trust those people.
So, from what's publicly known, I don't see anything he's done that's wrong. Unconventional, sure. Against certain people's morals, certainly. But then again, if the standard is "against certain people's morals", then we should be kicking out all women from the project for not wearing a burqa.
It's perfectly possible to say "I disagree with what Larry does in his personal life, but since it doesn't affect the project*, he should be allowed to continue doing what he was doing".
In fact the article says just that: "Our concerns do not make us pro-Larry — we do not endorse his beliefs or his personal life"
(* More precisely, "any effect on the project has happened because Larry's enemies have attacked Larry, including doxxing him, conducting a whisper campaign, and breaking the ToS of a private website for people with likeminded views to get private information about him, and because the project management responded to that attack by kicking Larry out. Larry was the victim of that attack, he was not responsible for it, so shouldn't be punished because of it.")
Where do I sign up??
Right here. If you're anonymous, you're generally ignored.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
I can see both sides: The commercial product doesn't want the bad press attached to product. The OSS developers say that they're giving free support son what someone does in their bedroom shouldn't matter. Personally I side with the developers. But I respect the commercial services discussion.
Having said that: if the developers are that passionate they should branch the code. Start their own project. Maybe make it their own commercial product.
You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
I have actually met a number of women who *DO* think that is an acceptable lifestyle tradeoff, some sexual abuse victims, some not. Not a lifestyler myself either, but online you tend to meet a *LOT* of kink sceners if you prove tolerant and non-judgemental of others lifestyle choices.
Having said that: trying to judge how other people live their lives, outside of ensuring they have a 'way out' if they ever decide they no longer desire that lifestyle is a really shitty attitude to have in a country that was founded on alternative lifestyles, whether religious or involving power play (which I will note many early peopels, both natives and colonists seemed to partake in, judging by the slave trade, abuse of natives and rape/war brides.)
As long as you're doing that in the privacy of your own property, and not bothering anyone else, why should we care?
Gah, you've said Drupal so many times it's like its not even a word any more!
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
If his sexual preference was for young children, he's breaking the law. Entirely different matter. Stop being a dick and conflating "sexual kinks with consenting adults" into "sexual assault of a minor".
If he was a mysognist who refused to hire women - also MORE ILLEGAL than being into BDSM. If you have a problem with this, get the law changed.
As such, where the law - and these developers - have drawn a straight line along "what he did was perfectly legal and his own business", you and the people who are the target of this letter haven't. Your line is all squiggly and routes round personal prejudices tries to blur the line between legal and illegal, and draws huge boundaries around what YOU are into sexually as what is acceptable.
The facts of life are that people can pick the workers they like. WITHIN THE BOUNDARIES OF THE LAW. Don't like it? Get the law changed. And you can't just pick up Drupal developers off the street, so they can hold their employer hostage. Or, rather, insist that their employer upholds the law around employment. Never heard of unions? (P.S. I disagree insanely with the concept of unions, personally, but that's another matter entirely).
There is a "commercial reputation" element, yes, but you can't just let people set out on DELIBERATELY DESTROYING the commercial reputation of the company in order to GET BACK at someone whose legal and consenting sexual life you disagree with. No company wants dickheads like that on the staff.
If they were to let the staff go, they'd still not solve the problem. The problem is one of culture where it's acceptable to target and destroy the reputation of staff members. If that's acceptable, next thing you know, every piece of dirt on every "new" member of staff will come out too. Is that acceptable?
I honestly don't get why anyone's sex life matters whatsoever. Politicians, policemen, or cleaners. Who gives a shit. Their CRIMINAL life, yes. That matters. But their personal sexual life? No.
And dickheads like you are just reinforcing hatred because of personal sexual preferences. You're no different to a homophobe, a puritan or a prude.
No, they are not endorsing his beliefs.
Your inability to dissociate contexts and cope with nuance and ambiguity does not make them bad people.
Goreanism is misogyny
Is it? You have any evidence that Goreans hate women? What about the women? Do they hate themselves?
Or are you just throwing around labels and reacting from ignorance?
I disagree completely. The 'image of the business' is a complex representation of the general zeitgeist and visibility of issues determined by vocal minorities and the media, which have been proven to be wrong in the eyes of history for as long as we've been writing it down. I would personally admire a business that took a stand against this sort of intimidation and said 'we believe in the tenants of freedom of speech, religion, and association and thus will not seek retribution against our employees for things done legally and off the clock, even for things this organization does not agree with'
Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. -- Susan Ertz
Yes. Ask the autist slave how they feel. Lol.
It is ridiculous, right? She clearly has no ability to determine what is best for her, and needs someone to take care of her and tell her what is acceptable.
oh, wait
And its why I love gay bars!
When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
That's how I know I hit the mark.
Now I'm never going to stop making these points.
Sorry for the bad quote level screwup on the last reply.
While my own tastes are remarkably pedestrian - most would say normal, coward has a good point.
This is workplace interference in a person's sexual behavior.
If he was performing his weird shit - and make no mistake, this is plain weird - on a woman who did not give consent, it would be a no brainer, that's sexual assault.
But now we have to ask ourselves, should his lady friend be sought out and fired from wherever it is that she works? Two willing and consensual participants in any other "crime" are treated as co-criminals.
And I'll re-iterate, if the roles were reversed, should the woman be fired, and the submissive man be viewed as her victim?
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
I never thought I'd say this, but can we bring the GNAA guys back? They were less annoying than idiots with Trump Derangement Syndrome.
What's the point of outsourcing an open source project? They were already providing free labor.
Whether they take him back or they don't, they're going to lose devs. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
As for "being passed on to a friend" (or "being pimped out"), that is a fairly common fantasy in BDSM, even outside Gorean circles. It's something women (and men) actually ask to have done to them on BDSM dating sites.
Cuckholding is not unusual among people who only like conventional sex. Come on Slashdotters, some people even do a rosary during sex. People do stuff. Some of it's odd, but we're starting to sound like the "Sex is only for procreation" crowd.
Now it's those people who use peanut butter and a putty knife that are the sickos.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Islam as an idea, not the people. Why is wanting to nonviolently stop a religion extreme?
The key word the is consenting.
You have a problem with someone who has a history of treating people the way they want to be treated. I think that it shows he's a considerate person. Unless you have evidence that he treats people in a way other than they wish to be treated, I'm not sure what negative affect you forsee in the workplace.
Just because you personally disagree with what those women wanted, doesn't mean you should be allowed to dictate it to them. Or do you think you're better than them in some way? I'm more worried that your attitude will affect the workplace than his.
That position is exactly as valid as saying that the opposition to "Social Justice" is merely a bunch of amoral recalcitrants.
But really you're just using "Social Justice" to mean "people I don't like". Because to the degree that that has anything to do with this subject, basically the strongest argument that can be brought to bear would be that the "slave" women have internalized the Patriarchy to the point of self-degradation. But if you're wont to hold that opinion, there are quite a few things higher on the list than private sex games.
What you're doing is virtue signaling. It's not very intelligent and rather boring.
Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
There is a difference between fantasy and real life. Accept that.
Careful. The legal world has refused to accept that. Fantasizing about kiddie porn is illegal.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2...
If you post as Anonymous Coward, don't expect a reply.
That will overflow into his work life one way or another.
Not if you are a mature person that has a sense of boundaries and how to behave in different social settings.
Leave your f*king social lives at home. You come to work to do work. You might be sitting next to a person of a different religion, a fan of the wrong football club or supporter of the opposing political party. Deal with it. On your own time.
As long as Garfield treats his (female) coworkers professionally, let him be.
Have gnu, will travel.
the Drupal community
Here is the problem. The culture of a software development organization is being co-opted to define a social culture. How about we hire a bunch of Wahabi Muslims and let them cane any coworkers that don't fit their idea of decorum?
Have gnu, will travel.
That's bullshit. For most Goreans, it's just another background for their personal BDSM play. And there are many kinks that might be politically uncorrect, but nobody should care as long as they are done by consenting adults. Since I'm active in the BDSM scene, I know many people and almost none of them believe that their personal relationship model preference should somehow be forced upon everyone else.
While this is actually an interesting point, I see one difference: Voting for Prop8 would actually lead to people suffering. It's something that objectively makes life harder for some people. Roleplaying some fantasy BDSM in your bedroom (or wherevere you want) with other consenting adults WITHOUT ever treating someone outside differently for it does not make life harder for anyone and does not lead to someone suffering (at least not someone who doesn't want that). So, since there was no accusation of him actually treating women worse or forcing himself onto them because of his sexual preferences, the comparison to Prop8 voters is (imho) not quite correct: Nobody was ever harmed by his private bedroom games.
This creed is of the kind that no organization, especially at a progressive open source project, should endorse or give a platform to.
Indeed. If they don't want to give a platform for them then they shouldn't have Gorean slaves coding while the project managers are whipping them.
Oh what this isn't what happened?
Well they shouldn't host Gorean parties or provide a forum for them.
That didn't happen either?
So clearly they aren't endorsing anything other than the fact that they are unable to separate the private life of a person from his work. Unless there is anything at all that is reflected in the work that he is doing, the only reason I know that Drupal is such a shit project managed by mysoganistic woman abusers in the first place is that they fired this guy for it.
Congradu-fucking-lations Barbra Streisand. You just got up and declared yourself to not be associated with something no one gave a shit about. But we care now, just not for the reasons you want.
Because this is brought into the open
Ironically it was brought mostly into the open by not supporting him. No one would have cared before, but now the news can't shut up about it. Great business decision.
We don't even want those disgusting fume emitting tobacco burners within 100 meters of our building.
But vaping? Totally fine man.
HMM.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
How is this modded insightful? Social justice is no more about power than anything is generally, this is just how people are. Furthermore, social justice IS about making the world a better place, the observation here is that it is often corrupted by people's flaws just as everything else is. The OP couldn't be more wrong.
Social justice doesn't oppose alternative lifestyles, in fact it desires "justice" for them. If the "alternative lifestyle" is one that creates injustice then that's the problem. Not saying that's the case here, just that the OP is a moron.
Codes of Conduct area bad idea to begin with. They are just vessels for intersectionalists to wield faux authority over adults that don't care about their ludicrous ideology, institutionalizing thought police and virtue signalling instead of meritocracy. It's the oppression olympics.
If a project or group has a CoC, it should merely read:
1) Don't be an asshole to other group members.
2) If you are called out for being an asshole to another member, apologize.
3) If you don't think you were being an asshole, ask someone else. If they think you were being an asshole, maybe you were, think about apologizing.
4) Repetitive assholery gets you booted.
5) Realize when a joke is just a joke, and don't be offended at every goddamn thing.
6) If you are repeatedly offended by everything, maybe you are the problem and can't get along with others. Stop harassing productive adults.
7) Don't be an asshole to other group members. Yes, this is repeated.
And I'll re-iterate, if the roles were reversed, should the woman be fired, and the submissive man be viewed as her victim?
Unless you have some evidence that he was let go because he victimized someone, and not because his semi-private ideals (how hard is it to get on this forum anyway?) conflicted with the stated ideals of the foundation, then that is not at all the question, though I am not surprised to see you asking it as a means of prevarication. Last time I heard, he was let go for that reason and for unspecified "other reasons". If you have a citation as to what those "other reasons" are which does not boil down to speculation, I'm interested in reading it.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
After reading Larry's blog post (and I recommend reading the whole thing) - I've come away realizing Drupal is in the wrong here, and the community is absolutely right to stand up for him. This isn't a man publicly arguing women are less than men. It's a man who is into BDSM and who enjoys a master slave relationship within the context of his romantic/sex life in a way that is wonderfully aware of active consent. That's fine. Some men and women enjoy being dominated, others enjoy dominating. Some like that to mix with how they live life - and that's also fine.
What isn't fine is ignoring the Gorean side of this or failing to see the problems with that culture - just as we need to see the problems with any culture (for example Judeo/Christrian/Muslim culture and how they view apostates, women, and non-believers). I believe we can be critical without blaming everyone in those cultures or destroying those cultures. It's fine to disagree and debate.
Drupal should reinstate this guy (since that seems to be what he wants. Though personally I'd argue he should join a programming community that better respects diversity and values people more.
Lastly I'll add this. It is worth considering that viewing women as less then men can be harmful, even deadly. It leads to treating people as mere objects, restricting their human rights, etc. Look at women in Saudi Arabia for instance. But I'm far more worried about that threat coming from conservative fundamentalist religions than from a sex subculture inspired by novels.
The obvious passage above should have read: Let's go ahead and postulate that he has only ever been in situations which have involved informed consent, because that is irrelevant to the issue at hand.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Excessive is subjective. That's your definition, there are others.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
My dog _loves_ cats. But they don't all love him, some run...fun.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Now I'm never going to stop making these points.
Nor did any of the televangelists I grew up with, They were all sure that there was no place for perverts in society. They didn't like the way some people had sex, and they wanted to persecute them for it. Just like you.
Seems like they lost. Likely the moral scolds in this case will lose too. Make whatever points you want, it's all free speech, but moral scolds are bad people, and you are one.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
we don't take kindly to folks that don't take kindly, and the dutch
Cut it with this no platorm bullshit. He never once used his position to further his sex life. He never disrespected woman at work. It was the Opposite. He treated everyone equally and respectfully.
He didn't use his job to further his personal life.
He never once abused the platform that he had. So cut it with that no platform shit once again.
This is coming from a country that just elected Trump. Grab em by the pussy. No platform. So if it's ok for Trump, why isn't it ok for a CEO to have consenting sex however he likes.
Fucking hypocrites man.
Yes. Ask the autist slave how they feel. Lol.
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
C.S. Lewis
The Gorean philosophy that Garfield follows isn't BDSM. It advocates real slaves, the kind without safewords. It also advocates disgusting, misogynistic garbage that makes women feel unwelcome in the Drupal community and is against the community's values. I'm really shocked that people are lining up to defend this scumbag. I get the idea that it's being misconstrued as some sort of "bedroom privacy" issue when it is nothing of the sort.
Someone is channeling Andrea Dworkin.
If he's a Nazi on his own time and only works to further his ideology peacefully. Then I don't give a fuck. I will never support the policing of thought.
On the Oregon Cost born and raised, On the beach is where I spent most of my days
I am a Brit who left 18 years ago, and have never heard that expression used except by Indians and Brits who were mocking / copying Indians.
And no one wants to hear either.
Yeah, you can't peacefully stop all thought even on a forbidden topic. Everyone taking part in it has to willingly agree to give it up. Assuming that's impossible - and it is impossible - even a peaceful method of erasing ideas from other peoples minds would be tyranny.
Larry Garfield follows a misogynistic creed
No, he doesn't, but you do.
A roleplaying woman (or man) can just say a safe word and the roleplay ends.
On the other end, regarding their public exposure and your interpretation of their "creed", there is no amount of safe words that will end the condemnation, the slut-shaming, and the attempted reprisals, from the likes of you.
I say "their public exposure", because it becomes pretty obvious that Larry Garfield wasn't the only one exposed. Any girlfriends or women he publicly dated would get the "gor" label as well. And because of this incident, a number of previous lovers did feel the need to out themselves as feminists and roleplaying women to defend him and his livelihood.
If his sexual preference was for young children, he's breaking the law.
To nitpick, merely having that preference isn't breaking the law, acting on it is. Child molestation is a crime, pedophilia is just a mental disorder, and it's not illegal to have a mental disorder, even if that mental disorder disposes you to commit certain crimes. Until you actually commit the crime no crime has been committed.
-Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
It was a quaint archaism over a century ago. British English used it in the 18th century, and it arrived in India alongside the British. Many quirks of Indian English have similarly ancient roots, although some are innovations and most are the product of people learning the language (e.g. Hindi speakers conflate "softly" and "slowly" as Sanskrit had only one word for both.)
Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
In the past I've been labeled a social justice warrior, but I support this guy's right to do what he likes in the bedroom with a consenting adult.
So am I not an SJW, or are you wrong about SJW motives and beliefs?
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Now that's a Freudian slip to be proud of!
Also maybe talk to some people and crack open some books AC. If you get out more and find out a bit more about the world you won't see women as being so alien and you'll see your "Why are some forms of bigotry legal, and others a crime" as ridiculous and embarrassing.
Frankly, that is not the point. The point is that people have to work with him, women included. He is a representation of all the problems they have in the tech industry and the company they work for says, "it's fine as long as he does it in private" ? Not OK. These people remain breathing, thinking, feeling humans, however much this conflicts with "being professional".
I am not saying he is not entitled to his opinion and any sex life he can find willing participants for but there are limits. If you wish to challenge me on that, think pedophile. Some children are desperate for attention, any attention, as are some men and women. That does not make it right. These people are, even if they are willing and do not understand it, victims. I'm even convinced that some of the perpetrators do not understand what they are doing (that does not make it right but it does mean they need help too). This may or may not include Larry.
Perhaps it's time for another Hitler, just to drive home the point that there are limits to what viewpoints a society should accept. ANY viewpoint that degrades another human being is unacceptable . Be it based on gender, sexual orientation, nationality, skin color, religion or any other silly argument, any and all of it is unacceptable. There are NO exceptions.
And before someone starts about terrorists, islam and ISIS... these people should be judged on their actions, not the belief system they chose to justify those actions. (And yes, there are some things in Islam that violate that rule above, as there are in Christianity).
The fact that Larry doesn't openly degrade women at work does not make his opinions and actions acceptable.
I don't think it is that simple. If they would not have fired him, other parties would have raised a stink.
Expressing a sexual preference for young children can see you behind bars, in some jurisdictions. In the same way that expressing a preference for blowing up certain religions can.
For instance, child "grooming" is all done "with intent", no actual action takes place against the person of the child. But expressing the intent, or even just masquerading in a way which a court might perceive as being a prelude to an attack, can see you arrested.
Though, yes, you are technically correct for the most part.
But what he's doing is not only legal to think about, it's not even illegal to perform either. Or discuss. Or have online forums for. Or anything else. Whereas a sexual preference for young children, rape, etc. is entirely different and would be a quite valid reason to exclude him from a community as he would be expressing a desire to commit an offence.
In this case, however, no offence would be committed even if he were to perform the acts he's talking about. Hence, it's none of our, or anyone else's, business.
Of course some do. Please show me a group of people without any assholes in it.
But in my experience, the BDSM scene is very big on consent and thinks and discusses it much more than vanilla people tend to do. And yes, of course I know that there have been, for example, some weird sex-cult style things going on that also used a "Gor" background, but the simple fact remains that most Goreans are not like that. Same thing as with religion, for example. Bad apples exist, yes, but most religious people aren't them.
And yes, what you say - evaluating everyone carefully - is actually what is done or at least suggested in BDSM: Vetting, covering, etc.
TLDR; Assholes exist in every group. Most kinksters (including Goreans) I know aren't.
Dodging the question much?
I'm not answering it because it's irrelevant to the situation, which you are mischaracterizing. Since that's not what happened (even with the genders reversed) the question is completely irrelevant to the current situation. Unless, once again, you have some evidence that is what happened, in which case, you are cordially invited to share it. Otherwise, you are cordially invited to go attempt aviary copulation with a ventrally rotating toroidal fried pastry.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Dries MUST act in the Open Source way. Consult the users in a democratic manner, and execute the outcome.
If not he will loose much more than just Larry. he might loose it all.
Look how Mark Shuttleworth reversed on Unity. Dries can do that too. Bring back Larry.
If they would not have fired him, other parties would have raised a stink.
And the world at large would not have given them the time of day because quite frankly most people aren't interested in the personal life of some developer. The only thing most people care about his personal life is that Drupal decided to fire him over it.
Drupal chose the worst option, both in terms of appeasing their own people and following the perception of protecting their brand. Ignoring the situation would have resulted in a) less coverage, b) less pissed off core developer team. They instead cut a finger off the hand that feeds them.
I'm pretty sure he's not an alien being.
But I'm beginning to have some doubts about you.
There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.
As nobody gives a fuck about the misogynistic culture at Uber?
Yah, first such viewpoint would be "Perhaps it's time for another Hitler".
If it is a part of your "lifestyle" to force your opinions on others who are unwilling
You mean like voting?
And interesting response. My first thought is that voting is a rather minimal use of force, but when a block votes that that is no longer minimal, so they should expect another block to act against them, and to publicly encourage others to act against them. I'm not really satisfied that this entirely addresses your point, however.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
I don't know where you think you are posting but I think I'm posting in a comments section attached to a story about Larry Garfield being fired by Dries Buytaert for what he got up to in his bedroom outside of work time.
I have not even mentioned Eich before. I'm not even sure what he is supposed to have done let alone defending him for it. Is this just your baggage or is it actually related in some way?
So call it an opinion and private and it's all ok?
Perhaps that was a bit much. Maybe it should have been "Perhaps it's time someone mentions Hitler,.."
If it is any consolation, I do not actually want another Hitler.
Everyone is free to think about my opinions what they please.
The crunchy kind has its place.
Pretty well played, sir.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
and not because his semi-private ideals
What ideals? If I play chess in "semi-private" with the usual rules, does that mean I have the ideal that white should go first?
Last time I heard, he was let go for that reason and for unspecified "other reasons". If you have a citation as to what those "other reasons" are which does not boil down to speculation, I'm interested in reading it.
Sorry, I don't buy that those "unspecified reasons" exist. Dries Buytaert had no problem talking about Larry Garfield's alleged "ideals", but refused to mention any other reason. What makes discussion of Garfield's bedroom proclivities even of remote relevance to the decision to end Garfield's participation in Drupal?