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Trump Has Grand Plan For Mission To Mars But Nasa Advises: Cool Your Jets (theguardian.com)
Donald Trump would like to see Americans walk on Mars during his presidency. Nasa would love to get there that quickly, too. The reality of space travel is slightly more complicated, however. From a report: On Monday, during a call with astronaut Peggy Whitson, who was aboard the International Space Station, Trump pressed her for a timeline on a crewed mission to Mars, one of Nasa's longest standing and most daunting goals. "Tell me, Mars," he asked her from the Oval Office, "what do you see a timing for actually sending humans to Mars? Is there a schedule and when would you see that happening?" Whitson answered by pointing out that Trump, by signing a Nasa funding bill last month, had already approved a timeline for a mission in the 2030s. She added that Nasa was building a new heavy-launch rocket, which would need testing. "Unfortunately space flight takes a lot of time and money," she said. "But it is so worthwhile doing." Trump replied: "Well, we want to try and do it during my first term or, at worst, during my second term, so we'll have to speed that up a little bit, OK?" It was not clear whether the president meant the remark as a quip or something more serious.
Enough with Mars. We cannot live on Mars. Ever. The difference in gravity and radiation will guarantee that. You can't fix biology and evolution. And don't say "live in caves" or "underground". Give us all a break.
Even if there is no suitable launch window in a decade, put him in the rocket and let him test it anyway. It could make America great again!
Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
and started from practically nothing.
At least we've got a President now that's actually interested in space travel again.
NO! He does too much for NASA! (Anyway he is stupid!)
That Trump will finish a first term much less get reelected to a second term is as unlikely as NASA to send astronauts to Mars in the next eight years.
You know that it's a bad time when you can get more inspiring sounding space speeches from Rob Lowe dressed in a Colonel Sanders costume than you get from the president:
http://www.adweek.com/agencysp...
Sadly, we can be pretty sure that KFC is going to get that friggin sandwich into space on time. Trump's Mars rocket? Forget about it.
I have a suspicion this is Ego vs Science.
He wants to cut all sorts of science and research budgets, so he's obviously not in favor of public money being spend on science. In Trump's eyes science is a private enterprise thing, not a government thing.
So why does he want to go to Mars, and specifically why does he want to go during his presidency?
The answer is Ego.
He wants to be known as the President who got man to another planet. He wants the capital city on some long-in-the-future Mars to be called Trump Town.
He doesn't want to go to look for signs of life, he doesn't want to go to advance science, he doesn't want to go to see if there is any long-term investment strategy.
He wants to go for the ego-boost.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
"Interplanetary travel is more complicated than I thought it would be."
You are welcome on my lawn.
I just don't understand this. Every single time he says something idiotic, there are always people who try to claim that he isn't serious. "Oh, he's not serious about the wall" "Oh, he's not serious about his vendetta against immigrants." And then he will do, or at least try to do, exactly what he said. Anyone who, at this point, honestly believes that he doesn't mean what he says, is either stupid, deluded, or both.
So yes, I think he's entirely serious that he wants to have people walking on Mars within his term. The only question is, what will he do when he finds out that it's impossible? Will he throw craptons of money at NASA, thinking that he just throw money at the problem? Will he just get pissed off and "fire" NASA?
The man is so completely divorced from reality that there's really no way to anticipate what he will do.
NASA, not Nasa
Something tells me his time in office won't last long enough to even pick the mission logo.
Basically he is just looking for something to distract people from what's going on with him, and for him to be noteworthy for some other reason than being a bumbling fool. Cutting about 80% of the time off the schedule would be foolish and catastrophic so he'd definitely be noteworthy but it wouldn't distract people from his bumbling, it would only attract more attention
"or, at worst, during my second term" ... Please... No...
Let's all remember that the President that put our nation on the path towards landing on the moon was JFK in the early 60s. We did not land on the moon during his presidency. Even if JFK were to not have been shot and been re-elected, he would have left office just shy of the first moon landing on July 20, 1969. If Trump actually thinks that we're going to go even further and solve even more scientific problems necessary to make a Mars mission successful within his presidency, he's even more delusional than we originally thought, and that's probably grounds for invoking the 25th amendment.
And the rockets will coal powered. Beautiful, clean coal. That's the secret to making America great again.
No one knew how hard getting to Mars ones! No one!
"Give someone a program, frustrate them for a day... Teach someone to program, frustrate them for a lifetime."
A President finally challenges NASA like Kennedy and everyone jumps down his throat because of who is saying it. Trump comes from a world where the delays and cost over runs from NASA the last 20 years are not acceptable. NASA is so risk adverse they can't accomplish their goals. What Trump should do is mandate the test pilot approach again, admit that space exploration will cost lives, and tell them to start getting things done.
Every single time he says something idiotic, there are always people who try to claim that he isn't serious. "Oh, he's not serious about the wall" "Oh, he's not serious about his vendetta against immigrants." And then he will do, or at least try to do, exactly what he said.
Except when he said he'd release his taxes. Or that he'd spearhead healthcare changes that would improve coverage and lower costs for the middle class. Or reduce taxes on the middle class. Or generate non-robotic jobs in the rustbelt. Or, or or ... The only thing Trump is serious about is self-aggrandizement and the seizing of unconstitutional powers. Which his base will figure out soon enough (and probably blame on the left).
Bump the Trump!
I was a bit surprised by some of my fellow slashdotter's negative comments on this.
I've really hated the lack of focus on science and ignoring of scientific facts in the current administration. While I'd love to sell science funding for science's own sake, it is just not working well with a lot of our population and government representatives.
As the same time, we know putting a man on the moon generated a huge amount of scientific research and learning. So if the current administration wants to characterize funding as helping "go to Mars", I'm glad to live with it given the scientific work that will be generated because of it.
I'm not a big fan of Trump, but if it takes his ego and bully power to get us back into space exploration, then that's a good thing. The thing I know he doesn't understand is how much effort and resources it takes to untertake a mission like this. I'm sure SpaceX has also been whispering in a few well-placed ears about taking over NASA's role as well -- that would definitely appeal to the conservative, small government, privatization always works crowd.
The problem I see is that no one would ever be willing to just dump the amount of money required into this. I'm a firm believer of the idea that throwing enough money and resources at a problem will solve it, but no one's willing to do that. We were willing back in the 60s when the Soviet Union beat us into space -- and we also poured uncountable sums of money into nuclear weapons and espionage technology as well with virtually zero limits. No one complained one bit back then, but they sure do now. Or, go back a few years and look at the Manhattan Project -- again, bags of money were just lit on fire and forgotten about because the goal of winning a war that was consuming huge numbers of men was possible if you paid for it. If you read about it, it was a massive project -- not just the bomb design, but the mining and refining of radioactive material that consumed vast amounts of resources.
The only way we could ever do something like this again is to have China plant a flag on Mars first...then all bets would be off.
It's downright pathetic that NASA - formerly the epitome of America's can-do and forward-looking approach - is "oh wait, slow down, that's dangerous, that's expensive..."
Fuck you NASA, you hidebound, overbureaucratic, topheavy, ass-covering bunch of time-servers. (And by that I don't mean the people at the program levels - they're still rocket scientists: I mean the admins and the politicals at the top.)
Look, I get it: Trump's a boob. An ignoramus. If you're one of the literati, then you *have* to reflexively HATE him. If he said 2+2=4, we'd change basic math just to make sure he was wrong. So if he says we should go to Mars, well, we certainly need to get in the way of that, right?
But we went to the Moon in THIS is what we need. Oh, and we're going to decide what needs to get made and where it gets built, no more pork-barreling our budget into congressional districts for political points. That's stupid.
-Styopa
It's all on you now, Peggy. Godspeed.
I'll close the door - and press the button.
It's amazing that hating Trump and point out what a "dummy" he is, is more important than using this opportunity to convince him to give NASA more money and resources to implement his vision.
The deadline is irrelevant. If in 4 years NASA has made significant progress the funding increase will continue.
No wonder NASA has such a limited budget. They're too dumb to know when to shut up and take the money.
Work Safe Porn
It's a hunch with scaffolding. :D
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
but they believe in thinking machines.
morons.
It's almost as if everyone expects politicians not to follow up on their bluster...
I have a suspicion this is Ego vs Science.
Who cares? If that's what it takes, let's go to Mars!
He wants to cut all sorts of science and research budgets, so he's obviously not in favor of public money being spend on science. In Trump's eyes science is a private enterprise thing, not a government thing.
So why does he want to go to Mars, and specifically why does he want to go during his presidency?
The answer is Ego.
Who cares? If that's what it takes, let's go to Mars!
He wants to be known as the President who got man to another planet. He wants the capital city on some long-in-the-future Mars to be called Trump Town.
He doesn't want to go to look for signs of life, he doesn't want to go to advance science, he doesn't want to go to see if there is any long-term investment strategy.
Who cares? If that's what it takes, let's go to Mars!
He wants to go for the ego-boost.
Who cares? If that's what it takes, let's go to Mars!
Fast, Cheap, Done Right - Pick Two
Fast + Cheap = Dead People
Fast + Done Right = Our budget deficit will be what?
It would be worth getting Space-X's estimate for the goal though. An internationally funded commercial project could be worth considering. A coalition of European, Middle Eastern, American and Asian countries could go a long way promoting world peace through cooperation towards achieving a truly inspirational goal.
Greed is the root of all evil.
"It was not clear whether the president meant the remark as a quip or something more serious." Everything he says is a quip - it should be quite clear.
I am not a number - I am a free man!
And please stop with the "Trump is so dumb" thing. It was cute when everyone thought there was a chance the Republicans might see the light and turn on him, but now it's just an embarrassment.
If I have to spend the next four years in fear for my life from terrorists or nukes, I can't afford to be in a constant face palm.
Shooting people to Mars in a tin can is a useless exercise.
It would not really advance space travel technology all that much, it's dangerous as hell, and we really wouldn't learn much more (if any more) than we know now.
In fact, I expect that the spectacle of people dying during the attempt would do more damage to the Space Program than you can imagine.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
....we have a way to travel at least 10% the speed of light. Way too many dangers in Space for long term travel by any biological entity other than a few microbes or tardigrades. :)
I scanned every post, and not one mention of the obvious option.
Yes, that's right, they'll fake it just like the Moon Landing.
You might be the most powerful man on Earth, but your problems are proportionately bigger.
Any reasonably thoughtful person would look at the presidency, and conclude that being president means feeling frustrated by not having enough power most of the time. And it doesn't mean getting respect -- even respect people think is due to the office, not the occupant. Trump of all people should have realized that.
You can't bomb ISIS away, or shock-and-awe Syria into submission, or intimidate North Korea. Everything you might try to accomplish is accompanied by a perplexing calculus of risk/reward. Manned space exploration is no exception. If you want to do it, you need to make sacrifices.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Just send the 1/2 of the population that will be displaced by the AI revolution to Mars, we will all be fine then.
You jest, but the Saturn V program did have fuel* that had carbon and that carbon did mostly come from coal. The rocket's steel content also gained carbon from coal. United States electricity was much more coal-based at the time, so everything from manufacturing to the control rooms ran on coal.
Technically, we already went to the moon and back on a coal powered rocket made out of coal, made with coal, controlled with coal, and communicated with via coal.
The governments of today are cowards when it comes to exploration when compared to the Europe from 1400-1700's. Back then they would pay for a ship to sail out and then hope they return in 3-5 years with gold. Many never returned. I guess maybe what is lacking some sort of "space gold".
Well, we want to try and do it during my first term or, at worst, during my second term, so we'll have to speed that up a little bit, OK?
That's neither "grand" nor a "plan".
Nope, no sig
It can be done ... with enough funding, assuming 2 terms ... and a dead president. That's what it took last time.
We don't have the "Reds" to beat this time. I hope we work with China, India, Russia, Japan, and the Europeans on sending humans to Mars. We are all better through cooperation.
I still don't understand all the hoopla about the Orion capsule. We should have cheap re-entry vehicles. I'm afraid NASA blew their wad on that capsule when they should have been trying to make a transit container that provides 1G of continuous gravity for most of the flight and provides protection against solar radiation. A thin few to 50 layers of Mylar isn't enough.
We've seen it and I'm sure he has seen it too. What I'm talking about is the one way trip to Mars taken last year by The Most Interesting Man in the World. He even took some beer.
So we have already gone to Mars and Trump is wondering why we haven't gone again and he wants to go too.
I say, let's send him too.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
Trump doesn't have the patience, the vision, or the stability to get us to Mars.
Here's what a Trump mission to Mars will look like:
- The rocket must be named the USS Trump;
- The interior and exterior design will be by Melania, and it will be all gold, turquoise and silver. It will look like a drug dealer's mansion;
- the life support systems will be cut back by 40% because Trump demanded the Russians pay for it and it turned out the Russians had other ideas. Therefore America pays but the money was running low, after all that interior design;
- Landing? No one said anything about landing! It's a "Mission To Mars", we got the rocket to Mars, what do you want from us?
- Trump will declare the mission a "Yuge Success, Great and Most Bigly". He will thank the astronauts for "their sacrifice" and promise to "never forget the families left behind". Then he will promptly forget the families left behind.
It will take NASA at least 25 years to design and build spacesuits that would be credible for Mars.
Using 1950's era ballistic missile tech like the SLS/Orion is also retarding capability and development of new tech.
A more likely scenario is that it will be another 350 years at least before the technologies of transport and return will be invented, and then another 50 years to build the ground based infrastructure as well as orbital based infrastructure.
A near term, like Trunp1 or Trump2, accomplishment that NASA can do would be to cremate some dead astronauts, put the ashes in Cuba cigar cans and launch them on a cheap one-way ballistic missile to crash on Mars as long as they can get the feet-to-meters conversion right.
Jajajajajajajajajajajaj
But he may force sloppy shortcuts that contaminate a planet or two and/or kill astronauts by skipping physical safety to try to get there during his term(s) in office.
Table-ized A.I.
I think what NASA is trying to tell Trump is that sure they can possibly get to Mars while you are President, however we'll need about the same amount of money spent on the F-35 Jets in order to do that (1.5 Trillion?). Give us those kinds of resources and we'll get you there in no time!
Due to the location of Mars relative to Earth, the prime planetary launch opportunity for the Red Planet occurs only once every 26 months
If he said 2+2=4...
We'd say, sure, but that's because it's fewer than the number of fingers he has. Ask him 7 + 7 and don't allow him to take his shoes off.
More seriously, a manned mission to mars is not that hard. A low-risk manned mission to Mars is incredibly hard. Once you're gone, there's pretty much nothing we can do here on the ground to save you. That means a metric fuck ton of planning. The moon mission was built on pork barrel politics - there's no fucking reason to have mission control in Houston, for example. There were also very few blood-sucking contractors, bleeding off profits, duplicative administrative and overhead costs, and wasting government employees time and money managing contracts. Ronald Reagan thought you could get contractors to do stuff and then just scale up and down as you have work demand - but specialized, high risk work like space flight doesn't work that way. Once you let a rocket scientist go, she's going to go find something else productive to do. All the engineers and scientists working on those types of problems are in demand in many other industries - they're not going to sit on unemployment hoping you'll cal them back in in a decade for another job.
Which brings me back to risk. Exactly how much patience do you really expect from a 24 hour news cycle if one of a million possible bad things happens doring the flight? Two? Everybody dying a slow, horrible death in deep space? Do we get to broadcast their final messages to their families back on Earth, see the tears in the eyes of their 8 year old son as mommy says she's never coming home? Because if you rush it, that's what you're going to get. And everybody inside the space program knows, without a doubt, that if that happens the space program is fucked. Halted. Dead in its tracks. Because no matter how much the top brass and the ignorant fucktards that think NASA is pathetic for saying "slow down - this is complex stuff," the real engineers and scientists have watch you turn on them with torches and pitchforks when things don't turn out Hollywood perfect. Every. Fucking. Time. Space is hard. And, as my aero professor noted prior to my intro class 30 years ago, the was no partial credit for the Challenger team, and there is no partial credit on his exams. You get it right, or you fail.
Fast. Good. Cheap. They say you can choose at most two. And unless $2T suddenly appears in the budget, we've already chosen cheap, so you'd better not ask for it fast.
I'm not a trump supported (I shouldn't even have to say that) but damnit, yes. Lets get to Mars. Full speed ahead.
Even if there is no suitable launch window before 2024 that would fit our schedule, we could at least get a moon base going as a good launching pad for Mars.
So yes, lets pump some money into NASA and get some Public/Private partnerships going.
This is a race after all. Do we really want to be left behind?
But will ego-boost add enough delta-v for a trip?
If the ("Impossible" "reactionless") EM drive proves to provide real delta-v for making ongoing orbital mechanics alterations (rather than being a test methodology error), it has been estimated it could be used to make the Earth-to-Mars trip in 70 days. That could put Mars within reach within 8 years.
The tiny force involved (if it's real) would add up to a lot of motion over time - and you wouldn't have to haul along a lot of fuel to be expended - and thus mostly used for hauling fuel.
There was supposed to be a six-month "does it really do this?" orbital test in progress or Real Soon Now. So we should know soon.
So if this works and Trump's ego can get it deployed in time, then, yes, ego-boost WOULD add enough delta-v for a trip. B-)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
he also want's kushner to solve all his campaign promises- i won't hold my breath.
Funny, these are the same people that creamed themselves when Obama mentioned anything about Mars. But hey, now it "cool your jets man!". Bunch of douche bags
Seems the comments have de-evolved into its normal Trump bashing. I'm going to start a new thread to debate the actual scientific merits of going to Mars.
While I'm pro space I don't see much need at this point for us to be focusing on a maned mission to Mars. I think we will eventually go to Mars but I think we should focus our time and resources on near Earth activity right now.
By near Earth, I mean Earth and Moon. We have been tossing up crap in to near Earth orbit for decades. We should return to the moon first, build a base there, maybe a colony, and focus on getting our crap together first.
We should get more actual space experience and pull the theoretical technology off the shelf and put it to use. I don't believe we will be ready for a manned mission to Mars till we have perfect space based building, artificial gravity, close to 100% recyclable life-support systems as we can get, magnetic radiation shielding, and nuclear propulsion.
I don't believe we should aim for Mars till we can make flights to the moon as routine as jet travel across the world is today. Once we have mastered these technologies and routine travel to the moon then we should be ready for Mars. An as a bonus if we are ready for Mars then we should be ready to go any where in the solar system.
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
Fuck this guy and the other billionaires so hell bent on going there. If they want to be in the history books so bad, pay for it your fucking selves and go yourselves. This is a massive waste of money and talent just for this asshole's fucking ego. He wants to be known as "President who sent the first Americans to Mars". There is so much more we could be exploring that would be far more fascinating by sending more and better satellites and robots that would cost a tiny fraction of what sending humans to Mars would and doesn't put people's lives in great danger to do so.
Scientists care about exploring in the most practical ways possible. Sending satellites and robots makes a hell of a lot more sense when they don't have an unlimited budget to work under than spending the same money and resources in simply trying to get Americans to Mars just so we can say we went there and were there first. Having humans there instead of more and better robots is going to add little benefit. Spending all of this effort and money on this means a lot less is spent on exploring outside of our solar system or even within, such as Jupiter's moons.
"Nobody knew a mission to Mars could be so complicated" - Trump
We should send women to Venus and men to Mars
http://dilbert.com/strip/1996-01-14
He's only 100 days into his first term and he is already whining about how tough it is to be president and how he wants his old life back.
Mommy, come pick me up from camp cause it's no fun and everybody's being mean to me. Waaaaaa!
I'd be surprised if the spoiled brat lasts a full year before he either quits or deliberately does something he knows even the RNC won't keep him form being impeached over.
What's Nasa? Anyhing like NASA?. Does anyone READ this stuff before dumping it on the server?