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Over 200 Android Apps Are Currently Using Ultrasonic Beacons To Track Users (bleepingcomputer.com)

Catalin Cimpanu, writing for BleepingComputer: A team of researchers from the Brunswick Technical University in Germany has discovered an alarming number of Android apps (234, to be exact) that employ ultrasonic tracking beacons to track users and their nearby environment. Their research paper focused on the technology of ultrasound cross-device tracking (uXDT) that became very popular in the last three years. uXDT is the practice of advertisers hiding ultrasounds in their ads. When the ad plays on a TV or radio, or some ad code runs on a mobile or computer, it emits ultrasounds that are picked up by the microphone of nearby laptops, desktops, tablets or smartphones. SDKs embedded in apps installed on those devices relay the beacon back to the online advertiser, who then knows that the user of TV "x" is also the owner of smartphone "Y" and links their two previous advertising profiles together, creating a broader picture of the user's interests, device portfolio, home, and even family members.

192 comments

  1. That ringing in my ears by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No wonder my ears are constantly ringing these days. Turn your f%#king phones off people!

    But seriously, how long will advertisers keep this up if there a class action suit accusing them of harrassment by inducing tinnitus were to suddenly rear its head.

    Any ambulance chasers lurking on slashdot?

    1. Re:That ringing in my ears by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 2

      Or pets suddenly attacking their masters when they turn their TV on, when they use their phone, etc.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    2. Re:That ringing in my ears by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or pets suddenly attacking their masters when they turn their TV on, when they use their phone, etc.

      That may explain why in the past 6 months or so my dog is suddenly barking at the TV when it never has before. Interesting.

    3. Re: That ringing in my ears by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Read the article. This tracking isn't found in tv streams yet.

      So no that's not why

    4. Re:That ringing in my ears by ScienceofSpock · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If you recently upgraded your TV, that could be why. Seems that dogs couldn't really perceive motion on older TVs because the framerate and resolution were too low. Modern TV's with higher refresh rates and resolution makes it much easier for dogs to perceive it as real, and so they're paying more attention to TV on the whole. There's even a new TV channel FOR dogs.
      http://www.foxnews.com/science...

    5. Re:That ringing in my ears by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So where is the app appers guy now?

    6. Re:That ringing in my ears by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Poor guy got apped.

    7. Re:That ringing in my ears by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who do you think submitted this story?

      Sorry, App do you think apped this app?

    8. Re:That ringing in my ears by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My dogs prefer Petbox (http://www.redbox.com/petbox)

    9. Re:That ringing in my ears by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dog whistles on Fox News?! I'm shocked, deeply shocked. Say it isn't so.

    10. Re:That ringing in my ears by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 1

      http://www.foxnews.com/science

      My brain just melted. Or does Fox mean "alternative science"?

  2. Oy, how to block this? by RJFerret · · Score: 2

    I already have a firewall and Hosts file on my phone to inhibit stuff talking to the world that I don't choose, but certain things I want to have 'net data access...

    Obviously Android permissions are only so fine-grained and more and more users (particularly of younger generations) accept any of them.

    A piece of tape over a webcam is one thing, but to disable a mic, not so easy to open things up nowadays to cut a wire!

    1. Re:Oy, how to block this? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Just open up your phone and unplug the microphone. No-one uses those things to make calls any more anyway.

      I remember a few years back someone modded a flip phone with a magnetic switch so that when it was closed the mic was physically disabled. This was around the time that details of MI5/NSA malware that could turn the mic on were coming out. If someone made a phone with a physical slider that disabled the mic and camera, or even just a magnetic switch and a flip open cover with a magnet in it, I'd buy that.

      Also, phone mics should have a hardware low pass filter that cuts off stuff above the human hearing range. In fact I'm surprised that they don't... Android could block it with a bit of software filtering too, or just deny the app permission to use the microphone.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    2. Re:Oy, how to block this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If you don't have any pets that might be sensitive, it should be pretty trivial to whip up a broadband ultrasonic jammer... just a noise source, a high pass filter, an amplifier, and a transducer. The sound pressure may be detectable to sensitive human ears at relatively high levels, but is not likely to be a grave concern; you simply can't hear it.
       
      Better still, reverse engineer the various schemes that these twits are using, and generate copious amounts of bunk data.

    3. Re:Oy, how to block this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Add sliders for "flight mode", wi-fi, bluetooth, nfc, blocking SSDP multicasts and it would be perfect.

    4. Re:Oy, how to block this? by Baron_Yam · · Score: 5, Interesting

      1a) Hardware switches need to come back into fashion. CUT THE WIRES. Since physical switches have an irritating habit of failing, they need to be easily replaceable, so they need to plug in and touch contact points, not be soldered in.

      1b) These switches should exist for power and every corruptible/interceptable I/O path. If a light sensor senses, an LED blinks, a mic listens, or tone is generated, there should be a physical, circuit-interrupting switch to kill the related hardware. If there isn't, your device isn't as secure as it could be.

      2) The OS should fake permissions for apps, since so many refuse to run without access they don't actually require. Instead of 'yes/no' when access is requested, we need the options 'yes', 'no', and 'fake it'. Anybody who demands location, camera, mic, contact, and file access to run their app that needs none of that should not be respected enough that you have to go with 'just do not install'. They're immoral, you be immoral right back.

    5. Re:Oy, how to block this? by sims+2 · · Score: 1

      I would love a software filter to take that high pitched bad mic whine out of old tv shows but I've never found one.
      It doesn't bother most people because most people can't hear it such as why they didn't fix the mic at the time.

      --
      Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
    6. Re:Oy, how to block this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Better still, reverse engineer the various schemes that these twits are using, and generate copious amounts of bunk data.

      This. Is. Awesome.

    7. Re:Oy, how to block this? by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      See OnePlus 3(t) slider, which is three position for alerts, but similar to what you are asking for. As in "Doable".

      What I would like is a programmable slider, one that I could make it disable mic or camera.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    8. Re:Oy, how to block this? by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2

      'yes', 'no', and 'fake it'.

      This is pure evil genius.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    9. Re:Oy, how to block this? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      I use Virtual Dub and some scripting to fix that.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    10. Re:Oy, how to block this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What you mean I can't hear it? I can hear 24Khz you insensitive clod..,24khz is already taxing the capabilities of the DACs and small speakers in the phones. The speakers in most phones can't even produce more than 16Khz, and if you are deaf enough to not be able to hear that, then you really have a problem.

    11. Re:Oy, how to block this? by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 4, Insightful

      See OnePlus 3(t) slider, which is three position for alerts, but similar to what you are asking for. As in "Doable".

      What I would like is a programmable slider, one that I could make it disable mic or camera.

      But if it's done in software it can be undone in software. I don't know any code that can bridge a physical gap in a circuit... a micro reed switch and a magnet on a flip phone or a slide on a smart phone... but it HAS to break the circuit(s) in question. Maybe a switch with micro jumpers to configure paths...

      --
      You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
    12. Re:Oy, how to block this? by ctilsie242 · · Score: 5, Informative

      XPrivacy used to do exactly this on Android. An app wanting a GPS location? Here is one. Contact info? Here is a randomly generated list. Ad IDS? Pick a 128 bit number.

    13. Re:Oy, how to block this? by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 4, Funny

      'yes', 'no', and 'fake it'.

      This is pure evil genius.

      Pretty sure it's also the foundation of some marriages...

      --
      You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
    14. Re:Oy, how to block this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      2) The OS should fake permissions for apps, since so many refuse to run without access they don't actually require.

      Possibly, but no real need. Don't run shitty apps, there being plenty of alternatives.

    15. Re:Oy, how to block this? by Baron_Yam · · Score: 1

      Nice. Sadly, my company uses iPhones and the iOS alternative only works on jailbroken devices.

    16. Re:Oy, how to block this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The context of the story is that the user has already opted into running malware.

      That malware can do bad things, isn't interesting.

      Oy, how to block this?

      Don't download, install and execute malware. Just Say No.

    17. Re:Oy, how to block this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If 1a and 2b ever become mainstream it will give users a false sense of security.

    18. Re:Oy, how to block this? by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Why not just a low-pass filter?

    19. Re:Oy, how to block this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just plug a broken mic into the 3.5mm.

    20. Re:Oy, how to block this? by Rakarra · · Score: 5, Funny

      1a) Hardware switches need to come back into fashion. CUT THE WIRES. Since physical switches have an irritating habit of failing, they need to be easily replaceable, so they need to plug in and touch contact points, not be soldered in.

      But then you would have to increase the thickness of the phone by 0.5mm, and that would be a FUCKING DISASTER.

    21. Re:Oy, how to block this? by EndlessNameless · · Score: 3, Informative

      There is this thing called age-related hearing loss. By the time they're in their 30s and 40s, most people will be lucky to hear 15 KHz. It is not uncommon to have healthy adults who are unable to hear above 10K-12K.

      Do you care to adjust your opinion in light of reality? Because you can google this if you don't want to take my word for it. Age-related hearing loss, aka presbyacusis, is very much an established fact.

      --

      ---
      According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
    22. Re:Oy, how to block this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, phone mics should have a hardware low pass filter that cuts off stuff above the human hearing range. In fact I'm surprised that they don't... Android could block it with a bit of software filtering too, or just deny the app permission to use the microphone.

      Not all information in the sound you cannot hear is due to out-of-hearing-range frequencies. They could (and probably do) use phase shifts, or masked (like the ones omitted from lossy compression audio) audible frequencies to get information through input filters undetected.

    23. Re:Oy, how to block this? by dargaud · · Score: 2

      Your point 2 is right on the money, and I've been saying it from the very beginning of Android. Every app should present you with its requested permission and you MUST have the choice at this stage to fine grin every permission to yes/no/fake it. Not just "do not install the app". And also for every update that changes permissions.

      Yes, there are apps that can change permissions of other apps, but you need to be root (my current phone doesn't currently have a root crack), and it's way too cumbersome to run on every app. Hence the flashlight app that asks only for flash and full screen, and then every update asks something more: network, location, camera, etc...

      --
      Non-Linux Penguins ?
    24. Re:Oy, how to block this? by thegreatbob · · Score: 1

      Just because you can feel the sensation doesn't mean that you can 'hear' it. It's like the opposite end of the spectrum from a series of fluctuations (sub-bass, infrasonic), and just sort of becomes a sense of 'pressure'.

      --
      There is no XUL, only WebExtensions...
    25. Re:Oy, how to block this? by thegreatbob · · Score: 1

      Addendum: similar to how ultraviolet light can have an effect on your retinas (e.g. snowblindness) without actually being able to see it.

      --
      There is no XUL, only WebExtensions...
    26. Re:Oy, how to block this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and speakers can be used as microphones too...

    27. Re:Oy, how to block this? by radarskiy · · Score: 1

      Even worse, that will increase the BOM by 10 cents.

    28. Re:Oy, how to block this? by Ann+O'Nymous-Coward · · Score: 1

      Bzzt, WRONG answer! Hint: what do you do when ALL the apps are shitty?

    29. Re:Oy, how to block this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IS it e911 compliant?

    30. Re:Oy, how to block this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That might be why Apple removed that jack?

    31. Re:Oy, how to block this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An RC or LC filter at the TV end should cut this out easily enough. Maybe run your tv sound through the stereo and install the filter between the two? Alternatively whip the back off your tv and splice it in just behind your speakers.

    32. Re:Oy, how to block this? by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

      When you say "used to" - did it go away for some reason?

      --
      Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
    33. Re:Oy, how to block this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reed switches should be ok for that purpose

    34. Re:Oy, how to block this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It seems to have been abandoned by the developer, which is a disaster for smartphone privacy because there are precisely zero viable alternatives. Xprivacy had a steep learning curve but gave the user absolute control, you could happily install the most scummy spyware app, safe in the knowledge that it was blind to everything except the bullshit data you chose to feed it. No more hidden scraping of mac addresses, secret 'advertising IDs' or serial numbers (obviously the built-in Android permissions don't even tell you this stuff exists, much less allow you to block it). No more apps crashing because you've denied them something they should never need to perform their purported function, they get to suck up your fake contact list and GPS location. All the other 3rd party alternatives to Xprivacy are a hobbled, useless joke.

      Notwithstanding how vital this app was, sadly it wasn't fully open and the developer seems to have been kind of a dick, hiding some of the more useful features behind a paid-for 'Pro' version. Can't say I begrudge someone trying to earn a living but this project was far too important to be someone's personal money spinner. Perhaps if it had been more overtly set up as a fully open source project from the beginning there would be a more thriving community around it and forks by now.

    35. Re:Oy, how to block this? by antdude · · Score: 1

      Void its warranty? What if we need the mic to talk to it like phone calls?

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    36. Re:Oy, how to block this? by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      'yes', 'no', and 'fake it'.

      Sounds like my first wife's operating system.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    37. Re: Oy, how to block this? by Type44Q · · Score: 0

      What I would like is a programmable slider

      You should ask Santie Clause for a brain first.

    38. Re:Oy, how to block this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There was no 2b

    39. Re:Oy, how to block this? by Waccoon · · Score: 1

      Not that I doubt it's a problem for some people, but I'm 40, and according to audio calibration tests I can still hear the full normal frequency range. It probably helps that I always wear hearing protection at work, keep my headphone volume low, and don't have any kids. 8)

    40. Re:Oy, how to block this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      XPrivacy is no longer developed, and won't work with Android 7 and up

    41. Re:Oy, how to block this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >1a) Hardware switches need to come back into fashion. CUT THE WIRES. Since physical switches have an irritating habit of failing, they need to be easily >replaceable, so they need to plug in and touch contact points, not be soldered in.

      1a)a) Touch contact points have an irritating habit of failing, they need to be easily replaceable, so they need to plug in and touch contact points, not be soldered in.

      1a)a)a) Touch contact points have an irritating habit of failing, they need to be easily replaceable, so they need to plug in and touch contact points, not be soldered in.

      1a)a)a)a) Touch contact points have an irritating habit of failing, they need to be easily replaceable, so they need to plug in and touch contact points, not be soldered in. ...etc.
      All those switches and contact points will be failing so often that you'll probably spend more time replacing them than using the phone.
      I understand and agree with what you're getting at, but you'll have to draw the line somewhere.

    42. Re:Oy, how to block this? by daniel23 · · Score: 1

      as i have no modpoints:
      INSIGHTFUL

      actually the first comment I#d mod up in the entire conversation up here

      --
      605413? Yes, it's a prime.
    43. Re:Oy, how to block this? by Karlt1 · · Score: 1

      The "iOS alternative" is to go into settings and choose the apps that have access to your location and the microphone.

  3. Captain Obvious here... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    But is there a list of these know apps?

    1. Re:Captain Obvious here... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can a cell phone's speaker reproduce sounds over 20khz?

    2. Re:Captain Obvious here... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes. The electronics may or may not do so - but small speakers are specced to sound good up to the 20kHz hearing limit - and therefore work 'reasonably' far above that.

      You can kill ultrasound with a simple RC filter. Make a low-pass filter that feeds the speaker, with all below 20kHz considered "low".

      You may also make a high-pass filter and short-circuit frequencies above 20kHz. It helps, but increase power consumption when they actually play this shit.

      Similiar filtering can be done for the mic. A simple filter need only two components - a resistor and a capacitor. Most phones have room for that.

    3. Re:Captain Obvious here... by nospam007 · · Score: 1

      "Can a cell phone's speaker reproduce sounds over 20khz?"

      It doesn't have to, it only 'listens' what you hear.
      It just spies on you, there's no other term to describe it.

    4. Re:Captain Obvious here... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They did on Batman...

  4. Which Apps??? by Rob+Riggs · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Completely useless, alarmist, unactionable article. Name names, dammit.

    --
    the growth in cynicism and rebellion has not been without cause
    1. Re:Which Apps??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. Someone obviously made list and I want to see it so that I can commence with any necessary uninstalling.

    2. Re:Which Apps??? by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Trying to avoid a "lawsuit" by not naming them. I'm all for Name n Shame, but the lawyers will sue when the vendor's stupid app was named and they claim it didn't (even when it did) and they lost "Millions in revenue" (previous 8 months they did $50).

      Sad world we live in, where the lawyers fuck everything up protecting the guilty.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    3. Re:Which Apps??? by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      so anon name and shame then.
      They need to publish that list, as I would uninstall any app that did this.

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    4. Re:Which Apps??? by Shakrai · · Score: 2

      They need to publish that list, as I would uninstall any app that did this.

      I'd bet real money that Facebook's suite of apps are on the list. The /. crowd may be willing to uninstall them but the rest of the sheeple will get outraged, share that outrage on Facebook (#irony), and forget all about it in a week or two.

      There's a reason why I refuse to install the Facebook app (m.facebook.com in a private browser tab works for my needs) and deny Messenger/WhatsApp access to all requested permissions. I'd just as soon do without the Facebook ecosystem altogether, but that's easier said than done if you've got friends scattered across the globe. *sigh*

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    5. Re:Which Apps??? by wvmarle · · Score: 2

      If I understand it correctly: any app that shows ads is a potential beacon. Not just the 200 or so that record the sounds, it's the ads that emit the sounds. As long as you use an app with ads (like most apps have), and are near someone with one such listening apps on their device, you may be tracked ultrasonically.

    6. Re:Which Apps??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      According to the paper [0], the apps are mostly targeting users from India and the Phillipines. They list the following apps (and developers) as examples in Table 2:

      100000+ SMS Messages - Moziberg
      McDo Philippines Golden Arches - Dev. Corp.
      Krispy Kreme Philippines - Mobext
      Pinoy Henyo - Jayson Tamayo
      Civil Service Reviewer Free - Jayson Tamayo

      [0] http://christian.wressnegger.info/content/projects/sidechannels/2017-eurosp.pdf

    7. Re:Which Apps??? by omnichad · · Score: 1

      They have enough of an API, you could just about write an open source client for it. That might reduce how much info is exfiltrated.

    8. Re:Which Apps??? by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Update - Apparently that's been done, but it didn't work very well due to imposed limitations on the API:
      https://play.google.com/store/...

    9. Re:Which Apps??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's the point? Top of the list are probably those apps you rely on every day, you might as well flush your phone down the toilet if you don't plan on using them. Even if your favourite app doesn't currently have this shit, maybe tomorrow it will. Naming names achieves nothing when reputation (on respecting your privacy) is worthless. And it is worthless because most people couldn't care less that the corporatocracy has its probes pushed firmly into the deepest corners of their buttholes.

    10. Re:Which Apps??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's slashdot. Alarmism is what these guys do. I'd be shocked and amazed if they ever just reported things without trying to add their own spin.

    11. Re:Which Apps??? by daniel23 · · Score: 1

      As I have no mod points I say:
      INFORMATIVE

      --
      605413? Yes, it's a prime.
  5. Where's the list? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why publish a story about bad apps without listing the apps?

    1. Re:Where's the list? by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      Lawyers.

      Next question!

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
  6. Why do we all passively accept this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    If our grandparents found out that their tv, radio or newspaper were actively spying on them as a standard business practice heads would roll, why do we take it so willingly?

    1. Re:Why do we all passively accept this? by Imazalil · · Score: 1

      Sorry to say, but the old-folks, no matter how many generations back you go were just as lazy and indifferent about this stuff as we are now.

      Now it's terrorists, then it was Communists, Nazis, the British, the Romans, you name it, everyone was willing to gloss over an awful lot.

    2. Re:Why do we all passively accept this? by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      Sorry to say, but the old-folks, no matter how many generations back you go were just as lazy and indifferent about this stuff as we are now.

      This is correct; it is once you stop being willing to take it up the ass from everyone who expects you to do so that you become one of the "old folks" yourself. I've been one for over a decade now and I'm only 35.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    3. Re:Why do we all passively accept this? by thegreatbob · · Score: 1

      Perhaps we should start a 'young curmudgeons club'? I've been an angry and senile old man for many years, and I'm only 30.

      --
      There is no XUL, only WebExtensions...
    4. Re:Why do we all passively accept this? by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      Perhaps we can find a nice quiet diner where we can hold our weekly meetings without having to yell over the noise of all them damn kids?

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
  7. It's more sinister than that by Baron_Yam · · Score: 5, Interesting

    >When the ad plays on a TV or radio, or some ad code runs on a mobile or computer, it emits ultrasounds that are picked up by the microphone of nearby laptops, desktops, tablets or smartphones. SDKs embedded in apps installed on those devices relay the beacon back to the online advertiser, who then knows that the user of TV "x" is also the owner of smartphone "Y"

    Imagine you're on your phone and browsing the web. You load one of those ads, and your phone now broadcasts your advertiser-assigned unique ID via ultrasound. OK. Who says it has to be another device YOU own that picks it up?

    How difficult would it be to drop listening devices in high traffic areas that listen for those tones, sending location information back to whoever? And that's just to augment other devices that might be infected with a listen-and-report app.

    This isn't an advertising tool, it's a ubiquitous surveillance tool for three-letter-agencies that advertisers have discovered. That is, of course, assuming it actually works outside a lab and isn't just an untested fantasy the ad types latched onto.

    Anyway, IF phones can both transmit and detect ultrasonic tones (which I question), it's only a matter of time until someone produces a 'secure' phone that has physical filters in line with the speaker and mic wires to filter out anything outside the range of human hearing.

    1. Re:It's more sinister than that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The thing that would surprise me is a phone speaker being able to broadcast ultasonics. Stenography would seem more viable.

    2. Re:It's more sinister than that by freeze128 · · Score: 1

      Imagine if an ad played on the TVs in a place like Best Buy. This is starting to behave like a virus.

    3. Re:It's more sinister than that by wbr1 · · Score: 1

      This. My phone goes lots of places. It has my location data. So, if an app has access to location data, it is far easier to link based off of that and ip data. Presumable when my phone is at a residential address, and my IP on the phone is the same as the one on other devices (tv, PC, etc) that can create a linkage. However ultrasound? What if I am at a friends an it picks up his/her TV, or anywhere else? What if it is an ad on a TV in a bar? I think the SNR here too high to be useful for advertisers.

      --
      Silence is a state of mime.
    4. Re:It's more sinister than that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your fitbit or applewatch also tells the advertisers how you feel about the ad. What gets your heart rate going etc

    5. Re:It's more sinister than that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is a physical filter? I assume that you mean either a hardware filter (could be either analog or digital), and presumably not a software digital filter.

    6. Re:It's more sinister than that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is that surprising? Speakers don't cut off abruptly at some frequency, they simply have a lesser response to frequencies above some certain value. And since the speaker on my phone (when in speaker-phone mode) can be heard over some ten's of feet at audio frequencies, it could still be detected even if it's amplitude is reduced by a factor of two or four or ten.

    7. Re:It's more sinister than that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This isn't an advertising tool, it's a ubiquitous surveillance tool for three-letter-agencies that advertisers have discovered.

      Correct. No ad company has serious use for such flaky data. It's just a cover for the surveillance state.

    8. Re: It's more sinister than that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A single ultrasonic ping is probably worth little, but repeated pings become data. If an app detects ultrasonic pings from the same device ID most nights, that's probably your home. If during the day, that might be your office. Repeated device ID detection events become data for establishing probable device-owner correlations whose strength can be statistically quantified. Anomalous correlations, the occasional associations of devices with ping IDs belonging to your friend or a store or a stranger, will filter out because of how much more frequently your own devices detect each other. The real fun begins when one device belongs to a known prostitute or drug dealer and the correlation data gets subpoenaed or sold.

    9. Re:It's more sinister than that by jittles · · Score: 1

      >When the ad plays on a TV or radio, or some ad code runs on a mobile or computer, it emits ultrasounds that are picked up by the microphone of nearby laptops, desktops, tablets or smartphones. SDKs embedded in apps installed on those devices relay the beacon back to the online advertiser, who then knows that the user of TV "x" is also the owner of smartphone "Y"

      Imagine you're on your phone and browsing the web. You load one of those ads, and your phone now broadcasts your advertiser-assigned unique ID via ultrasound. OK. Who says it has to be another device YOU own that picks it up?

      How difficult would it be to drop listening devices in high traffic areas that listen for those tones, sending location information back to whoever? And that's just to augment other devices that might be infected with a listen-and-report app.

      This isn't an advertising tool, it's a ubiquitous surveillance tool for three-letter-agencies that advertisers have discovered. That is, of course, assuming it actually works outside a lab and isn't just an untested fantasy the ad types latched onto.

      Anyway, IF phones can both transmit and detect ultrasonic tones (which I question), it's only a matter of time until someone produces a 'secure' phone that has physical filters in line with the speaker and mic wires to filter out anything outside the range of human hearing.

      Your phone definitely already does this if you visit the right websites. I have seen several big name URLs play ads (don't ask me the URLs cause I forget them, but they're mostly news related) that cause the music I am listening to to pause and for some embedded audioclip to play in that website. Drives me freaking nuts!

    10. Re:It's more sinister than that by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Stenography would seem more viable.

      Steganography would be a lot more useful here.

    11. Re:It's more sinister than that by omnichad · · Score: 2

      Nyquist theorem. If your phone's DAC is operating at 44.1KHz, you can't reliably reproduce any sound frequencies above 22KHz.

    12. Re:It's more sinister than that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      "Hey there, Jim. Looks like you're in the market for a new TV. This Samsung 65" 4K model would look perfect from any point in your 10' by 20' living room. If you're not sure, just go ask Bob next door. He bought one last week and the whole family has been enjoying its crystal clear display. You can even control it from your iPhone 6 Plus, but the experience is much better with a new Samsung phone. Have you considered upgrading that? Don't worry, your MacBook Air will still connect to any new Samsung phone or television. What do you say Jimbo? Oh, you're more interested in the 50" models? You wouldn't be getting quite the same experience, but... Oh no, Jimmy, you don't want one of those Vizios, just slide on back to the Samsungs. Jimboree? Jim-jam? James? Come back here before I tell your wife where you were last Thursday night."

    13. Re:It's more sinister than that by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      Even the cheapest bottom-of-the-barrel phones have 48KHz DACs, but that's largely irrelevant when we're talking about the 18.5-20KHz band.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    14. Re:It's more sinister than that by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      Workaround: start jerkin' it whenever an ad you don't care about comes on. Reinforce ineffective ads to drive ad agency success rates through the floor.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    15. Re:It's more sinister than that by Thanatiel · · Score: 1

      Steganography does not work.
      Any method can be destroyed by itself.

      --
      Irrelevant news and morons using moderation to mod down what they disagree on. 2018 resolution: so long.
    16. Re:It's more sinister than that by GuB-42 · · Score: 1

      How difficult would it be to drop listening devices in high traffic areas that listen for those tones, sending location information back to whoever? And that's just to augment other devices that might be infected with a listen-and-report app.

      Pretty hard actually. Ultrasounds have short range and noisy area with plenty of moving obstacles isn't the best place to put such a system.
      And smartphones have some form of filtering out of inaudible frequencies. Ultrasounds are considered useless, so why waste energy amplifying these signals. And why waste bitrate transmitting them digitally. Speakers working in the human hearing range don't like them either, it's like feeding the treble to a subwoofer.

    17. Re:It's more sinister than that by omnichad · · Score: 1

      The headline called it ultrasonic. 18.5KHz is not that.

    18. Re:It's more sinister than that by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Someone didn't read the thread they were replying to. GP post I was replying to said "stenography"

    19. Re:It's more sinister than that by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      But the tiniest bit of research will tell you that's precisely the band it uses. Yes, technically "ultrasound" starts at 20KHz, so even a 44.1KHz DAC can handle low ultrasound, up to 22.05KHz. That's a 2.05KHz band, well wider than the 1.5KHz band currently being utliized, so there's plenty of room for them to migrate to that band (or the 22-24KHz band made available by the 48KHz [minimum] DACs found in all current model phones) at any point in the future.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    20. Re:It's more sinister than that by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Still a misleading headline. Most microphone/speaker response curves cut off sharply after about 20KHz, regardless of what the DAC can handle. You may not be able to produce/detect at the needed volume. This is probably why their upper end cuts off there - and it will probably continue to not be ultrasonic.

    21. Re:It's more sinister than that by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      I use a sleep tracking app that uses ultrasound to detect restlessness. It operates in the 20-24KHz band on devices with 48KHz DACs and up to 32KHz on phones with better hardware (like my current and last 3 devices) and seems to work quite reliably. Of course, I also have a $50 burner that I use when traveling which can't use that feature, but I really had to dig to find a device on which it wouldn't work.

      That feature has to operate in the ultrasound range, as any audible sound may be disruptive to one's sleep, especially at the volume levels required to map out movement of people or objects using a single stationary emitter and receiver.

      I wouldn't be so quick to claim the average phone can't put out, or pick up, ultrasonic signals.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    22. Re:It's more sinister than that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      iPhones are pretty good at sending and receiving 18kHz carrier tones for years now (since iPhone4 at least).
      Androids of the same vintage not so much.
      Also androids had much worse latency on the microphone but that has improved.
      My boss can still hear at 18kHz unlike me so whenever we tested such apps (that talked to toys) he would whinge like heck. Also kids of course can hear that high.
      I think my sensors in the 15625 Hz range got burned out years ago by CRTs.

    23. Re:It's more sinister than that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...even more sinister, might be a buffer-overflow attack on that `listening for useful sounds'... so your device can be rooted just by being in the vicinity and listening for advertisers :-/

    24. Re:It's more sinister than that by Agripa · · Score: 1

      Nyquist theorem. If your phone's DAC is operating at 44.1KHz, you can't reliably reproduce any sound frequencies above 22KHz.

      Operating at 44.1kHz means that the DAC cannot reproduce more than 22kHz of bandwidth but that bandwidth could be anywhere. Bandpass filtering the output to produce 22kHz to 44kHz would be no problem. Subsampling IF radios work this way and so does my sampling oscilloscope.

    25. Re:It's more sinister than that by omnichad · · Score: 1

      If you're piggybacking on existing systems that use audio in human hearing range, none of that is relevant.

    26. Re:It's more sinister than that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sliding off topic, but my previous Samsung (dumb) phone actually did not work well with my MBP at the time. Every phone I had before that supported bluetooth "OBEX push", I think it's called. This allowed iSync to sync contacts and calendars with every phone that supported the standard. The Samsung did not support this, requiring their proprietary Windows software to manage contacts on the device. If I'd know that before I got it, I would have chosen a different phone. It didn't even occur to me that a newer phone would not support a basic feature that existed on all the phones I had before.

  8. New app needed. by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Wanted: an app that broadcasts ALL these signals, making them think you've got every product already, so they won't waste their time trying to sell you anything. Or just pollute their data to the point it's useless.

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    1. Re:New app needed. by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      Alternatively an app that can detect this.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    2. Re:New app needed. by Baron_Yam · · Score: 3, Interesting

      >Wanted: an app that broadcasts ALL these signals, making them think you've got every product already, so they won't waste their time trying to sell you anything.

      Since to be useful the sound must be unique to the user (in order to be matched to you by the receiving device), you'd need to know their algorithm for generating the sounds. It's probably a hash of some unique device ID available to applications, and not terribly difficult to figure out, but it's not as simple as 'broadcast it all!'

      >Or just pollute their data to the point it's useless

      An ultrasonic static generator would be more practical. Drown out any signals you haven't noticed and silenced with noise. You might piss off your dog, though.

    3. Re:New app needed. by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      The article says that each device generates a unique ID. Random IDs should work, since they won't know ahead of time what ID a particular device will generate.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    4. Re:New app needed. by FudRucker · · Score: 2

      that is a good idea, flood them with so much noise that they become useless, if you cant turn it off, turn it on and up so much that they are buried over their heads in the noise they were looking for

      --
      Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
    5. Re:New app needed. by FudRucker · · Score: 1

      if they are flooded with noise making them useless then unique IDs will be unreachable to their tools still making their clever hack useless, if turning off the microphone is not easy or not possible just bury their spyware in noise

      --
      Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
    6. Re:New app needed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You just need something that generates random morse code patterns at frequencies at 18.5 kHz, 19.0 kHz, 19.5, kHz and 20 Khz and repeats between 0.3 and 1 second (from the paper described by mystik).

    7. Re:New app needed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wanted: an app that broadcasts ALL these signals, making them think you've got every product already, so they won't waste their time trying to sell you anything. Or just pollute their data to the point it's useless.

      They'll keep marketing to you anyway as you'll eventually need a replacement when their cheaply made product breaks.

    8. Re:New app needed. by Altrag · · Score: 1

      You're assuming they care about you. They don't. If they're missing one out of their hundred million data points, they won't even give a collective shrug.

      You would need to convince a significant number of people to install whatever blocking/polluting app for it to have any effect at all. If anything, being the one polluter in your region would make you stand out just as much as your ID would.

      Not to mention humans aren't the only ears around. Dumping advertising signal into the ultrasonic is questionable enough, but continually blasting noise in that range would be annoying as hell for dogs and other creatures that can hear outside of normal human range (maybe it should be PETA suing these asshats?) Just to avoid being added as a single row in a database so large that you aren't even a rounding error.

    9. Re:New app needed. by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Just to avoid being added as a single row in a database so large that you aren't even a rounding error.

      Those rounding errors add up. See "Office Space." That's what got them into the mess in the first place.

      Peter spends the next several days hanging with Joanna and fishing with Lawrence. He shows up back at Initech at the request of the Bobs to find out that not only is he getting a promotion, people reporting to him, a raise and stock options, but that among others both Samir and Michael Bolton are being fired. He meets with his friends that night and asks Michael Bolton if the virus he's always talking about will really work. Michael explains that the virus will take the fractions of a penny that remain on every bank transaction and deposit them into an account. The theft will be so gradual that it will take years before it's even noticed. The three friends agree that it's a foolproof scam, and decide to put it in motion the following day before Samir and Michael are let go for good. They also agree not to tell anyone else, even though Lawrence has heard all the details of the plan through the apartment wall. Peter assures Samir and Michael that "he's cool."

      The next morning Peter checks the balance in the illicit penny-pinching scam account and finds it is a shocking $305,326.13! The three friends meet, and Michael chalks the glitch up to a mundane detail that he's possibly overlooked.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    10. Re:New app needed. by jbmartin6 · · Score: 1

      How about if our hypothetical app listened for the signals from everyone else's devices and just randomly repeated them? If enough people used the "Echo" app the data set would become useless.

      --
      This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
    11. Re:New app needed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Alternative solution - wear ear buds when web surfing.

      But I wonder, can a cheap set of computer speakers really reach the ultrasonic range?

    12. Re:New app needed. by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      The smaller the speaker diaphragm, the higher the top end, all other things being equal. Speakers in laptops and (especially) in phones and tablets are really, really small.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    13. Re:New app needed. by Altrag · · Score: 1

      That's definitely better for not spamming the ultrasonic frequencies and annoying dogs everywhere, but this:

      If enough people

      is still a massive flaw in your design.

  9. Involuntary Information Theft is not new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Windows 10, Phones, Apps. When will someone start suing these companies or start lobbying to change the laws so the average citizen doesn't get as screwed.
    Seem like if you pay good money for a product, it shouldn't be raping you.

  10. Rearch paper for this. by mystik · · Score: 5, Informative

    Cited research paper:

    http://christian.wressnegger.i...

    Found via the reddit thread on the same topic, It names a few of the apps, primarily using the SilverPush library.

    --
    Why aren't you encrypting your e-mail?
  11. Man was I scared by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I thought it said android apes are tracking users...

  12. True ultrasonic cant pass through alalog FM stereo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If they are actually using ultrasonic audio frequencies it won't work with analog FM stereo transmissions. The stereo pilot is 19 KHz so the audio output of the receiver cuts off above 18 KHz. On AM radio transmissions the audio bandwidth is restricted to around 5 KHz. For digital transmissions (TV, HD FM, etc) I suspect the audio is also bandwidth limited.

  13. For real? by fish_in_the_c · · Score: 1

    This sounds just a hair too far 'out there' , still that is ugly.

    The assumption ( other devices are owned by you) would be false under many circumstances so this tech, if it actually exists would be near to useless for that purpose. There are devices owned by other people in your home, your office , and the coffee shop you go to regularly. Of coarse you might be able to make smart assumptions about a lot of this but the articles 'other devices in your home' is obviously not a simple use case for such a thing. If it exists. Also, exactly how was and when was listening turned on for all these other supposed 'receivers' is it some kind of virus? everyone should turn off background data and update things when they want them instead of living with constant interruptions anyway. ( i think there has been some studies on that , but am too lazy to look them up right now).

    then again, about the only time I actually listen to video adds is when watching you tube or other video services.

    --
    âoeTolerance applies only to persons, but never to truth. Intolerance applies only to truth, but never to persons.
  14. I call bullshit by subk · · Score: 0

    Did anybody stop to consider the fact that speakers and microphones by-and-large are not capable of ultrasound frequencies? Tiny speakers like the ones in a smartphone are going to hit 18khz at BEST. It's probably closer to 15khz in reality. Even high-end studio monitors only reach 20-22khz. It takes specially designed transducers to operate in the ultrasound range. This story is complete bullshit.

    --
    Now, if you'll excuse me, I have backups to corrupt.
    1. Re:I call bullshit by ColdWetDog · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yep, it occurred to a number of people. That's why they're using 18K or so as the frequency. Remember, there isn't a hard wall cutoff here, just a drop in response. If all you're trying to do is send a couple of bytes of information, you can be slow and sloppy.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:I call bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I suspect they're really very short chirps in the high audible range, for the reason you describe.

    3. Re:I call bullshit by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Headline still says ultrasonic. Technically incorrect.

    4. Re:I call bullshit by DRJlaw · · Score: 2

      Tiny speakers like the ones in a smartphone are going to hit 18khz at BEST. It's probably closer to 15khz in reality. Even high-end studio monitors only reach 20-22khz. It takes specially designed transducers to operate in the ultrasound range. This story is complete bullshit.

      Tiny speakers are easier to drive at high frequencies because there's so little mass to drive. Also, your assessment is just plain wrong.

      The iPhone 3GS and 4, for example, are just as capable of pushing out a 20kHz signal as a 10kHz signal. The iPhone 4 speaker actually is more effective at 20 kHz than at 10kHz.

      This story is accurate. Your fact-free analysis of what smartphone speakers can and cannot do is bullshit.

    5. Re:I call bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not sure why anyone would care about this. You often know what kind of device someone has by the default ringtone. So what.

    6. Re:I call bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wrong on all counts. You can easily try it yourself, if you have two phones. Run a signal generator on one and an oscilloscope app with a frequency analyzer mode on the other. You can transmit and receive well beyond 20kHz.

  15. Thanks, Obama? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You do realize that if your claims are really true, it happened under Obama?

    1. Re:Thanks, Obama? by Baron_Yam · · Score: 2

      Who cares? And you've eliminated the Chinese, Russians, Israelis, and basically every competent intelligence agency in the world in your quest for assigning partisan blame domestically.

    2. Re: Thanks, Obama? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't believe the Russians are putting up advertisements on the TVs in best buy though.

      Of what value would that level of meta data be to them? Now compare that to domestic interests, and Occam's Razor points to the latter.

  16. Re:True ultrasonic cant pass through alalog FM ste by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2

    If they are actually using ultrasonic audio frequencies it won't work with analog FM stereo transmissions. The stereo pilot is 19 KHz so the audio output of the receiver cuts off above 18 KHz. On AM radio transmissions the audio bandwidth is restricted to around 5 KHz. For digital transmissions (TV, HD FM, etc) I suspect the audio is also bandwidth limited.

    FTFA noted by mystik above, they are use modulated 18-20K tones. It appears that the phone mics, software and transmission lines can handle these frequencies well enough to encode a small amount of information.

    A pulse beacon, if you will.

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  17. the apps/developers by nomadic · · Score: 4, Informative

    According to the article, offending apps seem to be mostly from India and the Philippines. They list 5 "representative apps" with developers:

    Application Name Developer Version Downloads
    100000+ SMS Messages Moziberg 2.4 1,000,000 – 5,000,000
    McDo Philippines Golden Arches Dev. Corp. 1.4.27 100,000 – 500,000
    Krispy Kreme Philippines Mobext 1.9 100,000 – 500,000
    Pinoy Henyo Jayson Tamayo 4.0 1,000,000 – 5,000,000
    Civil Service Reviewer Free Jayson Tamayo 1.1 50,000 – 100,000
    TABLE 2: Third-party applications with SilverPush functionality

    1. Re:the apps/developers by greythax · · Score: 0

      And eventually the MPAA. "We detected you watching a pirated movie near your phone. Pay us $3000 or...."

    2. Re:the apps/developers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Xaxis, who is owned by WPP (one of the largest marketing agencies on the planet) has been selling this service for a few years: https://www.xaxis.com/products/view/xaxis-sync

  18. iPhone also? by Highdude702 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm pretty sure Pandora does this on iPhone also. Last week I was on an artists site and listening to pandora on my phone. All of a sudden a song by that artist was played on a channel that was completely unrelated to that type of music. Kind of odd I thought, as I've had this happen before simply by talking to a friend about a song, and the very next song is the one we had talked about. Or maybe I'm just crazy.

    1. Re:iPhone also? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's okay, they hipster profiled you through a variety of methods probably not listening to you.

    2. Re:iPhone also? by Parsec · · Score: 2

      a channel that was completely unrelated to that type of music

      This is too often my experience with Pandora.

    3. Re:iPhone also? by chihowa · · Score: 2

      Pandora did ask for access to my microphone when I installed it. Not seeing any legitimate need for that, I denied it, but you may be on to something.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    4. Re:iPhone also? by jbmartin6 · · Score: 1

      Pandora does this even without a microphone in the vicinity, in my experience. I suppose it is possible, but why would they bother?

      --
      This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
  19. Re:I call ignorant poster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Simply because the cutoff frequency is at 18Khz doesn't mean that a transducer completely stops working at that frequency. The cutoff frequency is the frequency where the response drops 3db below the more-or-less flat lower frequency response, depending on both the mechanics of the transducer and on any added electronic filtering. There will be detectable response far beyond the 15- or 18-khz cutoff frequency, both on the output and input sides of a transducer. And it's not as though the perfect fidelity is required for the purposes under discussion here.

  20. very accurate by holophrastic · · Score: 1

    my neighbours, three walls and three windows away, the contractor finishing my basement, the tvisions in the sportsbar. I'm not a hobbit on a mountain-top, I interact with people most of most days, and often never again.

  21. Not such a big issue on Android 6+ by afidel · · Score: 2

    The app permission system makes this a minor issue on Android 6+, just deny any app mic permission if it doesn't have a legitimate need to access the mic. I do wish Android app permissions were more granular at the UI layer like they are in the API (and like they were on Blackberries) but I realize that if you swamp the average user with too much information they'll just run away and not use the features, perhaps give granular control if you've enabled developer mode?

    --
    There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    1. Re:Not such a big issue on Android 6+ by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Enabling Mic access is one thing - enabling it on a background task is something else entirely - there's still not enough granularity.

  22. Re:first? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Confirmed.

  23. 20 Hz to 20 kHz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All microphones in devices should be frequency limited to the human hearing range to stop this shenanigans.
    This is a hardware problem with an easy fix, but needs to be mandated by government.

    1. Re:20 Hz to 20 kHz by OhPlz · · Score: 1

      Why would the government want to ban its own surveillance program?

  24. Battery Life by omnichad · · Score: 1

    My phone was so slow and the battery went dead so fast, I just did a factory reset on my phone a week ago. It's faster than ever. It's hard to tell which app was at fault, but something was sucking down some serious resources. I'm only reinstalling the necessary apps, and so far I've avoided any "shopping" or food rewards app.

    Google should really shut down background apps and make them more transparent when they do exist.

  25. Re:first? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Egg came first.

  26. Just one more reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just one more reason to add to the already gigantic list of reasons why I do not have and do not want ANY so-called smartphone. Any alleged benefits of having one are completely overshadowed by the FACT that it's used to surveil and track people and their habits. Fuck smartphones and fuck them. I'd rather be called a Luddite than this.

    Oh, and any assholes who think they're being clever pointing out how many goddamned cameras and microphones and shit are tracking us every goddamned minute we're outside our homes can shove it up their ass because it doesn't mean I'm TAKING it up the ass by having a goddamned smartphone so I can be a goddamned clone playing goddamned twitch-games like the rest of you goddamned clones who have the attention span of a gnat.

    1. Re:Just one more reason by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Did somebody say LUDDITE ?

  27. Lots of effort by Gilgaron · · Score: 1

    This sounds like a lot of effort to get me to buy Charmin rather than store brand... how do they have enough money to crunch that sort of data set into something they can sell to businesses at a profit? If this was regular govt espionage of some kind it might make more sense.

  28. It's totally actionable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do you have any software installed, which can't be audited? If so, then you have no reason to suspect that you aren't running malware. Just uninstall anying suspicious. (Where suspicious == closed source.) Even if the malware you're running isn't this one, it's not like some other malware isn't also going to be working against your interests. If you have a problem with ultrasound tracking, then you'd probably also have a problem with GPS tracking, being used to send email spam, bitcoin mining, etc. There's no point in enumerating all the ways someone can use your computer against you, once you have elected to turn control of it over to them.

    Just don't run anything for which the software's loyalty isn't clearly YOU. Is this still not common sense, yet? "They just takes care of number one, and number one ain't you. You ain't even number two." -- Frank Zappa

  29. This really should be turned off by davidwr · · Score: 1

    Either the microphone and speaker hardware/firmware should filter out sub- and ultrasonic sounds, or the operating system or pre-OS-firmware should do it so it's impossible for any user application to get to this data (absent some bug to exploit, of course).

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  30. stop it! by AndyKron · · Score: 1

    Why isn't this fucking ILLEGAL?

    1. Re:stop it! by GuB-42 · · Score: 1

      Probably because you agreed to it by accepting the terms of service you didn't read.

    2. Re:stop it! by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      please provide link to any terms of service from broadly used wares that allow this

  31. I think Facebook does it too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Tinfoil hat time, but based on real anecdotal experience.

    For the past few months, my laptop speakers have been emitting a quick data "chirp" very sporadically. It's modulated frequencies above 10k, a duration of 0.5 to 0.75 seconds, and it happens on a very irregular basis.

    I run a very clean install of Windows 7 Ultimate, and use Firefox with Noscript. I get almost no ads, and have never been hit by a virus or malware (though I get unsuccessful phishing emails often). After hearing the data chirp 10 or 20 times (over the course of weeks), I started eliminating every remnant piece of cruft running in the background as an attempt to figure out who was causing it. I eliminated a lot of printer vendor monitoring services, my VPN client, update services from a host of clients, and just about everything running. The only sure thing was it would happen when my browser was open.

    It happened about 10 minutes ago. I read this article beforehand, and I noted to myself that I hadn't heard the chirp in over a week. The only two tabs that were open were GMail and Facebook. And thinking back, in every instance in the past I believe I had a Facebook tab open in a browser tab somewhere.

    My guess is that it's either Facebook itself, or one of the ads in it's advertising tray. The ad tray would make sense, and I bet it could be narrowed down to when only a few specific ads were visible - because it doesn't happen every time I'm on Facebook. Only occasionally. But it has never happened when Facebook wasn't open.

    Has anyone else heard this recently? Or is it just me? </tinfoil>

    1. Re:I think Facebook does it too by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Depending on what it sounds like, that could be coil whine from your Ethernet/WiFi when refreshing the page via AJAX.

    2. Re:I think Facebook does it too by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 3, Funny
      For the past few months, my laptop speakers have been emitting a quick data "chirp" very sporadically. It's modulated frequencies above 10k, a duration of 0.5 to 0.75 seconds, and it happens on a very irregular basis.

      Switch to Ubuntu: every time you logout, your sound system will switch back to default settings that won't work, and you will only remember to reconfigure it when you actually want to hear something, and then you can spend 20 mins getting it working again, by which time the bug infested chirpy-chirpy-cheep-cheep app will probably have crashed anyway..

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    3. Re:I think Facebook does it too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Has anyone else heard this recently?

      No. It's ultrasonics; hence unhearable.

    4. Re:I think Facebook does it too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope, it's different. I do get that coil whine from time to time, but it's at a far lower volume than this is. The sound isn't tied to a page refresh or a scroll, like that coil whine noise is (I get it when scrolling page by page in certain instances). This is definitely modulated data (sounds like modem data of old, just in a far different frequency), and a quick defined "chirp" of it. I'd love to record it, and I have the gear to do it... it just happens so sporadically it's hard to catch.

      I have ears that can hear into 22k and sometimes higher. It can be very annoying. I hear ultrasonic ant/rodent deterrents in friends' garages. I used to be able to pick out noise from a tuned CRT from a hundred feet away.

    5. Re:I think Facebook does it too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My stereo sound system speakers would occassionally emit data burst like noises when my cell phone was nearby. Guess it was cause by traffic between the phone and the cell tower.

      Strangely I don't remember hearing that in a long time. Maybe the provider switched to another GSM frequency or something.

    6. Re:I think Facebook does it too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My stereo sound system speakers would occassionally emit data burst like noises when my cell phone was nearby. Guess it was cause by traffic between the phone and the cell tower.

      Yes, my first cell phone (Nokia indestructible variant) would cause interference on any audio equipment from time to time. Headphones, stereos, radios, whatever; and it could last for several seconds. It's the primary reason I was all for banning cell phones on airplanes at the time - a whole planeful of those could potentially interfere with pilot-to-ground communications in a significant way.

    7. Re:I think Facebook does it too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, Facebook has been making noises in the background for a while now. They're barely within human hearing range.

    8. Re:I think Facebook does it too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Turn on your recording tools and reload the facebook page until it happens. Id write a script to reload the page (bonus points too if it takes a screenshot every time it reloads) then go to work. Come home, check your audio for the chirp and then correlate it to the page load and the adds displayed on that page.

    9. Re:I think Facebook does it too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've heard this several times in the last couple months as well. I'm on a mac. I don't have Facebook though, but each time it's happened I've had gmail open in chrome.

    10. Re:I think Facebook does it too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Firefox displays a mute button when a tab is playing sound. For a few days this icon blinked on every 60 seconds or so on any Facebook tab. Then it went away.

      Most likely it was some buggy code but who knows, it could have been intentional. I'll grab a recording if it happens again.

  32. Re:first? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your mom came first

  33. much more complicated by DrYak · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Seems that dogs couldn't really perceive motion on older TVs because the framerate and resolution were too low.

    Carnivore (predator) pets like dogs and cats tend to be much more sensitive to motion.
    They will *perceive* motion on TV, it will just look more choppy and flickering to them.

    Just like human where able to perceive motion in silent film era's 12-16fps, in half-rate/dupe-frame 12-15fps animation, or in "shitty low"-fps GIFs.
    It looks a lot more choppy, than a 24/30fps or even a 48/60fps.
    Or just like human *can* see the flicker of a 60Hz CRT monitor when looked at the periphery of the view (i.e.: where there are more rods - sensors with faster response that are also responsible for the pets better motion sensitivity).

    I had my cats recognize and react to things on my old 50Hz CRT, even if *I* could notice the flickering.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
    1. Re:much more complicated by mesterha · · Score: 1

      Carnivore (predator) pets like dogs and cats tend to be much more sensitive to motion. They will *perceive* motion on TV, it will just look more choppy and flickering to them.

      I would assume prey would be more sensitive. I'd rather miss a meal than be a meal.

      --

      Chris Mesterharm
  34. 1 known name by DrYak · · Score: 1

    At least Spotify clearly states when it uses ultra-sounds to identify which device is connected to which speaker within which range.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
    1. Re:1 known name by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      The Chromecast also uses ultrasound during setup or when authenticating in guest mode, to verify that you are connecting to the correct speaker.

      --
      Eat the rich.
  35. Re:first? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My mom is a chicken, you insensitive clod!

  36. Yet it works. by DrYak · · Score: 1

    Did anybody stop to consider the fact that speakers and microphones by-and-large are not capable of ultrasound frequencies? {...} It takes specially designed transducers to operate in the ultrasound range.

    not optimized for ultra sound (like your car's parking range finder)
      !=
    impossible to even pick faint ultra sound.

    You don't want to perfectly reproduce ultra-sound music for your dog.
    You just want "morse-code" level of vague faint ultra sound.

    Tiny speakers like the ones in a smartphone are going to hit 18khz at BEST. It's probably closer to 15khz in reality. Even high-end studio monitors only reach 20-22khz.

    Yup speaker are mainly optimized for the human hearing range. (mostly in the 10Hz to 15kHz) range.
    Yet it doesn't go silent at 15001Hz, just less efficient.
    As stated in the article, they use 18kHz : at that frequency it's hard for human to really notice, but speakers are still not so bad, you can at least transmit simple beep-codes.

    Regarding microphone : yes, they *are* sensitive at much higher frequencies.
    It's hard to do a perfect frequency filter that stops abruptely right at the 15kHz limit.
    Much easier to use a microphone that picks way higher than this, but at least doesn't muffle in the audible zone at all,
    record it with a ADC at a high sample rate, and then clean the sound digitally.

    (That the actually real reason of 192kHz ADC/DAC you see in most pro-level equipment. Not that it makes any sense to keep a 192kHz audio track all the way to the customer. But at least if the recording stage works at a higher frequency, there's less risk of muffling the interesting frequencies or have distrosion that spill out into the audible range).

    So a smartphone could pick a bit of 18+ kHz sound (at least something really easy to distinguish, like beep-codes).
    Even if it's not optimized to record calls in that range, it's still designed in a way that avoid muffling under the 15kHz range.

    This story is complete bullshit.

    yet, US communication actually work, and is used in the wild.
    When Spotify detect a device logged into your account on the same network, it can use ultra sound to match which device/speaker is connected where - i.e.: it can do ultra-sound pairing.
    (It says clearly on the message box that appears).

    Chromecast has also been reported to support such ultrasound pairing.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  37. Frequency Range Based Permissions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This could fairly easily be blocked if microphone permission forced everything through a low-pass filter and there was another permission for high-frequency microphone that didn't automatically filter.

  38. Re:first? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And I'm a sensitive cock, you chicken clod.

  39. Name the lawyers too, then by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > Trying to avoid a "lawsuit" by not naming them [...] the lawyers fuck everything up protecting the guilty.

    So preemptively name the lawyers. That'll teach them!

  40. Muted Phone by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

    Unless I'm listening to music, I have the volume on my phone for media turned off. (I love "watching ads to get free stuff" in games. Launch ad, put the phone down, come back after 20-30 seconds of silence, and claim my free stuff.) If I'm right, would this prevent these ads from broadcasting?

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  41. I need a band-pass filter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So this is reason #6,916 to keep analog speakers.

    I can add band-pass filters inline on all my speakers so I can eliminate all sounds not audible to me.

  42. Re:first? by DickBreath · · Score: 1

    It's not a real egg. It's just industrial goo. But don't tell Dr. Franklin.

    --

    I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
  43. Illegal recording without both party consent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, isn't it illegal to intentionally record someone without their permission? If you cause the audio to be generated and recorded across devices owned by different people, don't they both have to consent to the specific recording interaction? Seems like you could frame this in a way that jury would find offensive.

  44. No big deal by ColdBoot · · Score: 1

    I quit watching TV years ago.

  45. Firefox by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... the microphone of nearby laptops, desktops, tablets or smartphones.

    This is why I didn't install the microphone-required version of Chrome, it will be abused by web developers.

    ... a mobile or computer, it emits ultrasounds ...

    I use headphones a lot, so they will never have a current profile of my devices/contacts.

  46. Re:first? by rpstrong · · Score: 1

    No, the chicken came first. The egg was just breathing hard.

  47. Either... by martinfb · · Score: 1

    Either stop stealing my info, or give me access to all info collected.

    I reserve the right to opt-IN, not OUT, of ANY data collection methods, anywhere.
    Whether it is in some small print somewhere.
    Collection warning should always be widely and easily posted.

    Or, all that data needs to be freely and widely available to all private citizens.
    (I want more info on that asshole that lives up the street!)

    --


    Self-importance and self-indulgence is the root of ALL evil.
  48. Depends by DrYak · · Score: 1

    I would assume prey would be more sensitive. I'd rather miss a meal than be a meal.

    Depends on how much their strategy for escaping the "be a meal" role relies on visual system.
    (As opposed to other strategy, like being massive and difficult to kill, etc.)

    An Antelope should be able able indeed to spot the approaching big cat, and start to run.

    (Then there are evolutionnary compromises :
    rod have faster response speed and better sensitivity to low-light condition, but are not colour-sensitive (increasing the risk that a predator could successfully camouflage)
    cone have colour sensitivity (but only work in broad daylight).
    Also making a visual system generally costs ressource. The better the eye, the more visual processing must be done by the visual cortex, and thus a bigger brain is a requirement).

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]