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Manchester Attack Could Lead To Internet Crackdown (independent.co.uk)
New submitter boundary writes: The UK government looks to be about to put the most egregious parts of the Investigative Powers Act into force "soon after the election" (which is in a couple of weeks) in the wake of the recent bombing in Manchester. "Technical Capability Orders" require tech companies to break their own security. I wonder who'll comply? The Independent reports: "Government will ask parliament to allow the use of those powers if Theresa May is re-elected, senior ministers told The Sun. 'We will do this as soon as we can after the election, as long as we get back in,' The Sun said it was told by a government minister. 'The level of threat clearly proves there is no more time to waste now. The social media companies have been laughing in our faces for too long.'"
But only because so many people are willing to give them all their personal information for free.
...Mainstream media are reporting today that the government was given credible warnings about the suspected bomber as many as five times over the past few years, from a variety of sources and via exactly the sorts of channels you're supposed to use if you're worried that someone might do something like this. None of these source appear to have relied on high-tech surveillance and intercepted communications. They were reportedly based on in-person observations, which tragically doesn't seem to have set off the right alarm bells soon enough.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
If the Internet and the World Wide Web become too dangerous for terrorists to communicate they'll find other ways to communicate their nefarious plans which may be more immune to cracking. This could include face to face meetings in secure venues such as caves or messenger transmissions. It may be that the best way to learn of such plans is the old fashion method of inserting moles into such organizations. They must be really good or they'll end up as recent moles have in China.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
It is an ominous action what was performed when parents were waiting to pickup their children after a concert.
After declaring something that it is true, let's talk about technology and the justification to violate the privacy human right in the name of security.
If there is any justification to break all rights trying to catch terrorists, then we must stop using paper because somebody "could" have been designing a terrorist act in a piece of paper. Let's also stop talking, because when we talk could be possible that we let others to receive messages describing how to perform terrorist acts.
Let's give the authorities the right to use "advanced" interrogation methods, because we could be thinking on performing terrorist acts and, in general, let's become guilty by default in a world were it is enforced to demonstrate that we are not guilty on any possible action that could hurt others.
The main problem is that the human being it is very capable to bypass the obvious communication methods and the bad people will continue performing bad actions in one or another way, and in the middle all the really innocent people will become guilty by default and the freedom that humanity has been working to acquire during thousands of years and millions of lives will be lost in just some years. And if this happen, the terrorists will win the war.
Multiple warnings over several years, and the UK government never acted on them. So now, rather than admit they were incompetent or not funding their human agents enough, they're going to cut off free speech online? Congratulations Britain, you have the dubious honor of being the second country in the world to fall to terrorism.
"Set a man a fire, he'll be warm for the rest of the night. Set a man afire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
... is fine. The law, while all kinds of stupid, only requires telecoms providers be able to break their own encryption.
And the West continues its downward spiral into USSR/PRC-level authoritarianism.
So we will live in the Panopticon, the chocolate ration will be increased to 25 grams a week, and we will always have been at war with EastAsia. What worked with the Jedi to overthrow the Republic. By mining Mars for its women.
I'd be saying, "Sure, but we're going to shut down all GovCloud regions. One level of encryption for everybody."
Our sour-faced Prime Minister has cast her disapproving vicar's daughter scowl over this country for a long time, first as Home Secretary (they start authoritarian and get more so as time goes on) and now as PM. She likes nothing better than banning things and telling people how to behave and after Manchester, she has her chance. Threat level at maximum, troops on the streets, new laws rushed through, strong and stable, vote for me!
With multiple warnings never acted on, the only thing they did in preparation for the attacks was prepare sweeping additional draconian measures, to be enacted while everyone is reeling from a terrible attack they probably paid and equipped in the first place.
will they force apple to unlock phones as well?
Legislation only removes objects, even virtual and intangible, from the law abiding public.
Not from those outside the law who will carry on doing what they do.
Manchester was someone outside of the law and this crackdown does nothing, yet again, to prevent re-occurance.
Government's cause terrorism, who in turn target the public for voting them in.
You end up feeling like the pig in the middle between both extremists (legislative & violent).
The Mosque is the centerpiece of the Islamic culture
The followers get instructions from their preachers during and after their prayer inside the Mosque
In fact, the UK government already knew of the 350 or so Islamic Terrorists returning from ME but the government never apprehend them
Instead, the UK government let them running loose, to continue preaching their anti-Western, anti-Christian diatribe inside and around their Mosques
While it is the moslems who carried out the massacres it is the Western government giving them a free hand to do whatever they want
The word I am required to enter is 'crying' and yes, knowing an innocent 8 year old girl perished in the mindless massacre, I am crying!
I'm old enough to remember when bombings like Manchester were commonplace in England, but they still let Irish Catholics into the country.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
You are welcome on my lawn.
I don't remember cryptography coming after INTERNET
There is no could about it,there WILL be far more interference/monitoring etc etc,more than is already in the pipeline,once fuhrer may is elected at the general election,what ever their manifesto says or doesn't say,you can guarantee that the UK is about to become the most monitored country in the northern hemisphere..
You can wave goodbye to any idea of privacy, they will try to make encryption either illegal or ensure that there are ways round it,if network providers thought they had problems now and a few more in the pipeline,you just wait, they are about to get a whole more.
The UK public will have no say in it,the net providers will do as their told or else..
And it will all be a waste,how many viable attacks have been stopped,people caught by electronic monitoring very few I suggest..
Anyone who has any brains and wishes to carry out an attack does not use ANYTHING electronic,it's done face to face or uses mules that are totaly off their radar,the only ones they will catch are the complete morons with little chance of a viable attack anyway..
You don't have to make your own explosives, which is pretty easy anyway,there are plenty of sources of explosives if you put your mind to it..
... it's good bye UK tech sector. Broken encryption is worse than no encryption at all.
...is starting to look downright prophetic.
As many here have pointed out, attacks like this were far from unknown during "The Troubles". Yet somehow, the UK managed to muddle through without turning into a police state.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_Great_Britain
May and the rest of her pet fascists need a strong lesson in reality, and I don't think the voters can deliver it without some encouragement about votes having consequences.
I wonder what would happen if every social media account in the UK...all of them...stopped working. Email only if you want to contact somebody there. And telephone, of course.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
"Cracking down on the internet" will do nothing but inconvenience innocent ordinary citizens.
The US had a very hard time finding Osama bin Laden after 9/11. He dropped off the net, and no cellphones either. He communicated via trusted couriers.
Another example is "Millenium Challenge 2002" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... This was a simulated war game with "Blue" force (USA) versus "Red" force (middle eastern, probably Iran).
> Red, commanded by retired Marine Corps Lieutenant General Paul K. Van Riper, adopted
> an asymmetric strategy, in particular, using old methods to evade Blue's sophisticated electronic
> surveillance network. Van Riper used motorcycle messengers to transmit orders to front-line
> troops and World-War-II-style light signals to launch airplanes without radio communications.
The initial result was an absolute disaster for "Blue" at the beginning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
>At this point, the exercise was suspended, Blue's ships were "re-floated", and the rules of engagement were changed;
[...deletia...]
> After the war game was restarted, its participants were forced to follow a script
> drafted to ensure a Blue Force victory. Among other rules imposed by this script,
> Red Force was ordered to turn on their anti-aircraft radar in order for them to be
> destroyed, and was not allowed to shoot down any of the aircraft bringing Blue
> Force troops ashore. Van Riper also claimed that exercise officials denied him
> the opportunity to use his own tactics and ideas against Blue Force, and that they
> also ordered Red Force not to use certain weapons systems against Blue Force
> and even ordered the location of Red Force units to be revealed.
The USA lost to "low tech" in Viet Nam. Afghanistan and Iraq weren't exactly "glorious victories" either. The UK seems to be falling into the same trap. They'll only succeed in shutting down internet connectivity for innocent citizens. Terrorists will continue to use "sneakernet", trusted couriers, etc.
I'm not repeating myself
I'm an X window user; I'm an ex-Windows user
Just like our government used 9/11 to implement all kinds of useless but intrusive laws to poke into our private lives, expect the UK to do the same. It's unlikely something that protects the citizen will come about, but that really isn't the point. The government has a golden opportunity to do all kinds of shit that people would normally be up in arms about, but now they will cheer the erosion of rights along.
-- Will program for bandwidth
Your deflection attempt is cute.
But yours was a deflection as well. The proposal to which that AC remarked "[i]f you're not a terrorist, or doing anything wrong, you have nothing to fear." was not a proposal to "take down all the curtains and allow police to install cameras in your," but a proposal to put "the most egregious parts of the Investigative Powers Act into force." Had it been the former we'd have to add " ... or having sex in your home ..."
How many duch credible warning do they get per day, and how many can they realistically investigate ? If the y get 5 per day in average and can realistically investigate 10, no excuse. But if they get 50 per day for the same workforce, the y have to prioritize, and maybe some of the workforce were locked into other investigation too (the other nutjob at the bridge comes to mind)
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Works every time. The UK wants to be a police state so badly.They are just being their government to take their rights away.
...an internet to communicate. Still, anything that will slow down terrorists communications will be most welcome among us proles.
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Clearly they learnt nothing from the CIA exploits leak that cased the NHS to go into meltdown when black hats got hold of the code. They just don't have a clue, compelling legitimate companies to provide ways to break into their encryption just means that the terrorists will use other encryption techniques either developed themselves or from a company outside of the UK who doesn't care about UK laws. End result, law abiding citizens loose their privacy, terrorists continue with impunity.
Unfortunately it is likely to be a crackdown on people supporting equality, democracy, and free speech and pointing out that Islam is against all of these. The muslims will be allowed to carry on as normal.
Why is it that when the muslims say they fear reprisals from non-muslims after an attack it is fine, but when non-muslims say they fear further attacks by the muslims it's islamophobia?
What are the odds that USA or Saudi Arabia have supported this attack in some way? 50%?
The existing anti-terrorism laws didn't work so we need more of the same shit, even if this guy is a loopy mass murderer and has nothing to do with terrorism.
How convenient that governments can use their own incompetence to increase their power.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
It is not possible to understand a crime deeply without answering a question: Cui bono? or Cui prodest? (Eng. Whom does it profit?)
In fact the original text of Marcus Tullius Cicero's speach was: "...asking, time and again, To whose benefit?" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
...would have done this.
You must be joking, that's the local equivalent of the National Enquirer.
The extremists, knowing commercial software is insecure, will compile their own communications software.
Criminals, knowing there's a repository of passwords on corporate servers, will engage in long-term social engineering to find and copy it.
The government will save nothing, not even face.
Is that you never, ever, EVER give the president a power that you will regret later when someone like Trump steps in.
Of course not, he's a lamb.
https://www.thecanary.co/2017/...
Its not like this bomber wasn't on the radar already, he was. Went to Libya or some other terrorists haven country just weeks ago. His Father has been arrested now too. The UK chooses to subject all its citizens to privacy reductions because it lacks the will to focus on the real enemies. Same is happening here in the US, collect every ones data and then sift to find the few. Its the worst way to find suspects and terribly ineffective as we see with these attacks.
This is the right thing to do. Because everyone knows that the way to find a needle in a haystack is to increase the size of the haystack.
I can see it now. Banners, pitchforks, and people chanting, "Broken encryption for safety!!!"
(Government is the best solution for EVERYTHING! Just ask someone in government and they will tell you!!!)
Actually countries can decide for themselves who is and who isn't a citizen. Jus soli or Jus sanguinis are the two main priciples.
Worldwide community, WTF is that?
That says a lot more about your attitudes than it does mine.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Let's shit on nerds.
Unless you want to imply that you were doing something wrong in the first place -- because that's exactly what the term "crackdown" implies. As if the government was cutting you some slack all this time, but now that you've pushed it too far, they're going to do what should have been done all along. That's what "crackdown" means.
that the british talk so much about is going to be at the same level than russia and china?
good to know, if only they would stop mentioning it, its getting retarded
The sooner we can just admit that humans are naturally xenophobes and respond accordingly the better. The problem isn't encryption is communication in general. A smaller world really does not mean better understanding it just means we are all at each others throats.
The real problem is the Internet *NEEDS* national boarders. We need heavy restrictions on any kind of real-time cross boarder communication.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Now we'll see if AFRINIC, the internet registry, is more than hot air.
"No IP addresses for governments that shut down internet access," they said. If you cut access or start censoring feeds from tools like Google, Twitter, and Facebook to deny their citizens access, the infringing government could find themselves refused new IP addresses. Well, this seems exactly what Britain seems to be thinking of doing. They say that the Internet views censorship as damage and routes around it; is it time to start routing around the UK?
Okay, technically, this was a measure that was to be considered in June. However, the proponents of the measure really should speak up about it now. The Manchester attacks were terrible but the Investigatory Powers Act is even scarier.
Okay, this is foolish on SO many levels and proves either that the conservatives in the UK know knowing about security in general, or are just looking to increase it's grip on the public (and manipulate the public/elections with the data they will have unmitigated access to.
First, we already know may of these violent collaborations are done without encryption or even high tech in many cases. So that won't stop anything.
Second: It will be an open invitation for hackers worldwide to probe for the back doors in products they know will be required if this power hungry party gets it's way.
It will make everyone's information open to the hackers/groups with less than ideal motives and will protect no one. All it will do is allow the government to get more information on the innocent citizens, whom I suspect is what these laws are really about and terrorism is just an excuse to tighten the grip of a party whose power hunger will never be sated. In essence, make innocent public citizens more vulnerable to extortionists, manipulators and hackers both foreign AND domestic. Which in the end will make the country less secure.
Benjamin Franklin had incredible foresight. HIs words "Those who give up their civil liberties for a little extra security deserve neither" are proving so true today.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge" - Einstein
Government will ask parliament to allow the use of those powers if Theresa May is re-elected
I don't get it, why wait? Why not ask for them now?
Oh wait, nevermind, I do get it. It's because they fear what the "other" candidate would do with those powers, so they want to wait till "their" candidate secures the election before asking for these powers.
Protip: If you don't want the "other" candidate to have a power, then "your" candidate shouldn't have it either.
Facebook, WhatsApp and the other companies that might be affected by this law should just threaten to withdraw from the UK.
If that doesn't outrage the legion of politically-indifferent young adults in this country and send them running to register as voters so that they can oust this increasingly fascist government, nothing will.
Wasn't our "Strong and Stable" leader Home Secretary during most this 5 years? Maybe she should have been doing her bloody job.
Okay so they maybe inspired/ordered this and decided to CLAIM it as one of theirs
Do They not know about the IRA, The folks that fought the IRA and the Gurkas??
you start blowing up kids on purpose and you had better be well hidden
I used to be proud to be called British,but not anymore. I am ashamed of what my country is becoming. The government is both stoking and riding and a wave of extremist rhetoric that is more representative of V for Vendetta that many people are comfortable with.
Woe betide you to oppose it, because you stand good chance of being murdered by the morons lapping it up with gusto.
Jo Cox was a Member of Parliament murdered by a British Nationalist.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo_Cox
Yesterday they put troops on the street in dramatic show of strength that is, if we are lucky is just Security Theatre.
Not only am I ashamed, I starting to get genuinely scared of my own Government.
Anonymousâ for obvious reasons.
Your "Us vs Them" is showing.
You are ensuring the divide that they will always see, and always hate you for!
Goddamn, this mentality is FUELING it!
And people like the british-born bomber will never actually be citizens, cos hey, they're not white?
Oh look, big surprise. Right after the false flag attack, they now need more and more power over you.
Don't be stupid. We in America were stupid to tolerate the TSA in airports. Fortunately, most of us learned from that experience and will not tolerate them outside of airports.
If you give them an inch they will take a mile, so have some common sense and no tolerance of them. Resist. Obstruct, Block, Circumvent, Bypass, but do so peacefully.
It would be a lot more efficient to simply outlaw Islam and start arresting those that practice it.
You are most CERTAINLY a foreigner if your PARENTS were FOREIGN BORN... too much foreign bullshit influence over you while you are trapped at home from age 0 till you move out.
Same generally goes for if your GRANDPARENTS were FOREIGN BORN, though more of as a silly euphemism.
Beyond that, yes, then you can talk about being a pure blood natural.
However NOT if you still LOOK or ACT like a foreigner, or believe in foreign statistically RELIGIONS to the point of NOT ASSIMILATING and FITTING IN.
"It's my company that no one is forcing to use. We like making sure people are safe online as much as its YOUR job to make sure they are safe offline. I will not break encryption, and you are free to block us out of your tiny, wolf in sheep's clothing, KGB wannabe country. You are a constant headache to deal with and we'll gladly take the minuscule loss in profit compared to the hell you'd catch for doing so. It's costing us to deal with you anyway. Besides, thank god for Tor and VPN." ---- Your reality face-smacker, Social Network.
Main Stream IS FAKE NEWS
Sure, the Constitution guarantees the freedom to share more information in the public, and the right to free speech is great... but NOT when it will cause a danger to National Security. The info Snowjob likely possesses is probably EXACTLY the kind of stuff al Qaeda wants leaked out so they can learn better of how to successfully find ways to kill Americans at will. Not to mention, maybe names and locations of counter-terrorism spies that the U.S. has out in the field infiltrating the ranks of those would-be murderers. People want to complain about the NSA and allegedly "spying" on them, but then they'll also complain about not feeling the government is doing enough to protect them from al Qaeda! The NSA is not "hiding" anything, but they'll be truly ineffective if EVERYONE knows what they're working on. They're not interested in photos of your baby or mom's recipes. Has NOBODY stopped for a moment and asked "why" the NSA has been doing what they're doing? Did people think the authorities use magic to uncover terrorist plots? Which would you prefer, "spying" on you or terrorism on you? Snowflake (a high school drop-out) did what he did for the fame (for the escape from obscurity that everyone wants... although most average people simply use Facebook). http://www.newser.com/story/17... Special Ed is a traitor... Some still say what he did was NOT treasonous... But those weren't "leaks". He falsified his credentials and used other agents' identification so he could flat out steal sensitive information...