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Firefox Marketing Head Expresses Concerns Over Google's Apparent 'Only Be On Chrome' Push (medium.com)
Eric Petitt, head up Firefox marketing, writing in a blog: I use Chrome every day. Works fine. Easy to use. There are multiple things that bug me about the Chrome product, for sure, but I'm OK with Chrome. I just don't like only being on Chrome. And that's what Chrome wants. It wants you to only use Chrome. Chrome is not evil, it's just too big for its britches. Its influence on the internet economy and individuals is out of balance. Chrome, with 4 times the market share of its nearest competitor (Firefox), is an eight-lane highway to the largest advertising company in the world. Google built it to maximize revenue from your searches and deliver display ads on millions of websites. To monetize every... single... click. And today, there exists no meaningful safety valve on its market dominance. Beyond Google, the web looks more and more like a feudal system, where the geography of the web has been partitioned off by the Frightful Five. Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Apple and Amazon are our lord and protectors, exacting a royal sum for our online behaviors. We're the serfs and tenants, providing homage inside their walled fortresses. Noble upstarts are erased or subsumed under their existing order. (Footnote: Petitt has made it clear that the aforementioned views are his own, and not those of Mozilla.)
Only be on DOS
Only be on Windows 3.1
Only be on Netscape
Only be on AOL
Only be on IE
Only be on Mac
Only be on iPhone
Only be on Windows phone
Only be on Android
Only
Only
Only
Manufacturers have been trying to lock people into their platform since people began selling stuff. Computers, software, tools, vehicle, you name it.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Screw you guys, I'm going back to gopher and using NCSA Mosaic.
To hell with the "web" (whatever that even means anymore)
It's time for the DOJ to crack down on Google for anticompetitive behavior. They're quite possibly even worse than Microsoft was in the 1990s. Unfortunately, I have no confidence that a DOJ in the Trump administration will enforce the nation's laws. Get rid of Trump and Sessions, and perhaps there will be hope of enforcing existing antitrust laws.
Funny how Mozilla/Firefox weren't complaining when they had a large marketshare. It is called competition and if people are going to a competitor's product you need to look at why, what you offer and what you could offer which would persuade people to yours. You have no right to market share, you have no right to anything at all. I also find it quite hypocritical that you mention the advertising given the tie-ins Firefox and Mozilla have had in the past and the fact that on the leading Linux platforms Firefox has done a deal to ensure that it is the default installed OOTB browser. Maybe other browser companies such as Opera should complain about you doing that?
Perhaps given your job title you should look at your own performance and take a closer look at home as to why Firefox doesn't do as well as it should. If you don't competition get out of the game.
I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either. - Scott Adams
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There are a lot of us that have never used Chrome. And some of us don't use ANY Google products! Their garbage analytics are being unused by me and this web page at this very moment! It's spectacular.
Make Firefox not suck. I had a laundry list of issues with FF that culminated in my switching to Chrome, where everything "just works". I used FF for *years*, until I literally couldn't make myself keep fighting with the browser.
This is not just Google's fault - people are writing Chrome-only websites. Not surprisingly, google.com only supports U2F (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_2nd_Factor) on Chrome. Surprisingly and infuriatingly, other tech companies are doing the same, even though Firefox supports U2F with a plugin. Dropbox and Atlassian both require Chrome for U2F, and refuse to try to work with Firefox. (Kudos to Github for doing it right.)
Well if Firefox didn't go downhill after 3.6x (Adding junk, making load and "boot" times slower) Chrome (and it's open source variants) would not have taken off so well.
I personally do not like the Chrome from the website (too much info gets sent to Google) but Chrome for Work and Iron are great alternatives.
And today, there exists no meaningful safety valve on its market dominance
Well, there's the market segment that doesn't want every click they make monitized and tracked.
We are not to be trifled with! Why, there are dozens of us.
Beyond Google, the web looks more and more like a feudal system, where the geography of the web has been partitioned off by the Frightful Five. Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Apple and Amazon are our lord and protectors, exacting a royal sum for our online behaviors.
Segmentation is natural in a oligarchy. I would suggest to you that Microsoft, was one the sole leader in the tech world, and lost its dominance by thinking it was "it". The others will eventually fail. We may be too short sighted to notice it happening.
The point being, the "next" big thing is going to hit, and these guys are all going to miss it. Probably, because the next big thing won't be anything we expect, it will happen organically. This is why I don't see 3D stuff as being successful. It might be, when there is a "killer app" that requires it to function. Since 3D porn, movies and games haven't really taken off yet, it is either too premature, or not required for functionality.
I haven't a clue what the next big thing is, because it likely hasn't reached maturity, and hasn't found the "killer" status that will cause it to take off. If I had a suspicion, I would think augmented reality would be the "next big thing", but it is still years away from being "killer".
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
MS got so much stick for pushing their browser on their OS, and I'm fed up of Google doing the same sodding thing because I'm using their service, but not their browser...
Signed into Google and don't use Chrome, constant fecking whining.
Hypocrites really.
Will it show the protocol if it's just http?
What I'd really like is for all the Google service sites to STFU and remember when I say I don't want Chrome. Every fucking page for every fucking site has some sort of pop-up box, banner, or somesuch that uses Microsoft tacticts to suggest that somehow this web service will work better in Chrome than some other web-compliant browser like the one I'm already using (Firefox). If closing/dismissing/saying "NO" would silence them for good that'd be one thing, but they won't fucking go away. They keep coming back.
Sorry, Google, but the dozen or so background processes Chrome launches that arrogantly assume that you're doing nothing else with your computer and Chrome therefore has implicit permission to own every all RAM and CPU 100%, crowding out everything else with they sheer quantity of the number of spawned threads has resulted in you being banned from my systems. Go the fuck away and leave me alone and stop trying to take over the world, assholes.
the latest firefox upgrade crashes the browser like a second after you visit certain sites, its pathetic
the only reason i run it is because of a couple extensions, but their browser is GARBAGE thru and thru
This reminds me of those Domino's Pizza "Turnaround" ads from from 2010 (wherein the company basically admitted their pizza was terrible but that it was now much better). His premise is, "FireFox was terrible back when you switched to Chrome, but come back because we're almost as good now and Google is too powerful."
If you want people to use FireFox just because Google is too big, that's not enough. It needs to be clearly better than Chrome in meaningful ways.
The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
Chrome is not the new IE and the only thing holding other browsers back is not Google or Chrome. But rather themselves for not developing a browser users want to use. Firefox clearly lost track of the end user needs and Microsoft went the wrong way with Edge, its been rejected by users. The rest make up a small group of users who cling to native browsers like Safari, or unique ones like Opera or some others.
Not only that! We're about to make it worse. By next year it will BE chrome.
Mozilla has been pushing hard to make Firefox to be exactly like Google Chrome along with its limitations and lack of customizability. By Firefox v57 there will be no reason to ever use Firefox anymore because of Web Extensions won't allow users to install real extensions that allow them to actually change Firefox's behavior and UI as they want it to instead of Mozilla's ideology of having Firefox be a Chrome copycat. The pathetic Theme options in future Firefox versions is just as awful as Windows 10's themes and limited color choices, meaning no real options at all.
So I find it hilarious that somebody from Mozilla is concerned with Chrome becoming the only web browser in town when it's Mozilla themselves pushing the remaining Firefox users away towards Google Chrome because of their behavior and border-line user hostility. Because why bother using a gimmick when you can use the real thing?
This space is not for rent.
And surf using Tails' browser. The frightful five really only care about your credit card and spending habits. Avoid all five, and head out to http://tails.boum.org, with your 4G USB stick. Then vanish like the Major (Kusanagi)
A great option (or at least a GOOD option) IMO is Iridium. It mostly is Chromium recompiled with some privacy defaults (that you could set in Chrome or Chromium in about 5 minutes), but also ALL the google hooks removed.
Brave sounds ok, but given that they have tried offering stuff like "replace your ads with ours" and are busy studying "how to monetize the web" or whatever with an "attention token", I wouldn't feel comfortable going all-in on them.
https://brave.com/about_ad_replacement.html
Will being brave magically remove the headphone jack from my PC and phone?
Sounds like the Chome-wanna-be followers at Mozilla are whining because they just got told they're never gonna be Chrome no matter how hard they try.
Boo Fucking Hoo.
This is a clever bit of marketing. The intro makes it sound like it's a thinkpiece, about to explore some interesting hidden issue that you didn't know about, and which is forcing Chrome's dominance on the world. But then it segues into its real purpose, which is to market Firefox, to convince you that it's actually pretty cool these days and you should give it another try. Clearly, the author hopes the intro will make it go viral, including things, like, oh, making the front page of /. and hackernews (doesn't seem to be there yet).
I hope it's successful. Come to think of it, I haven't tried Firefox for a while, it's probably time I did again.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
If I'm not mistaken doesn't the Mozilla foundation get greater than $100M for Google for making Google the 'default search engine'? Seriously, seems to be a case of "You lay down with dogs you'll wake up with fleas."
Look I like FF, I use it primarily but again this is simply a case of someone trying to protect their own backyard. If FF becomes irrelevant than the 'rent' they DIRECTLY get from Google will go down, as opposed to that supposed 'rent' I pay them being a 'serf' with eyeballs.
My 'Occams razor' usage is "any time someone uses terms like 'lord and protectors' and 'serfs'" they are probably being self-serving rather than looking out for others 'best interests'. In this case, given what I've read about how Mozilla gets paid it's obvious this guy is protecting his job/self-interests. Claiming these are 'his opinions' and "doesn't speak for Mozilla" is bullshit. There is NO way I could get away with posting a blog claiming that it is 'my opinion' that our competitors product is 'bad for the market'. I'd be fired as soon as my company found out & it's quite possible they'd be fined by the SEC or issued a warning etc.
People who write blogs like this HAVE to stop assuming their readers are IDIOTS, if you have a valid point that is maybe nuanced or even that you may think isn't widely known then present the facts, let the readers decide for themselves if they are being 'harmed'.
I just don't like only being on Chrome. And that's what Chrome wants. It wants you to only use Chrome.
Uh huh... and how is it doing that, exactly? Does it stop websites working in other browsers? Does it fail to tell people that other browsers are available? Because I think the others fail to do that too.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
It wasn't too long ago that Firefox was viewed as an amazing browser (ob: https://xkcd.com/198/ ), far better than the alternatives, and FOSS to boot. But like it's predecessors, it got slow, bloated, and bogged down in trying to implement features too far outside the core mission of a browser. Chrome came along and snatched the performance crown and mindshare. If you have already conceded that Google is allowed to harvest all your data in exchange for free products/services, then by all means keep using Chrome. However, if you value your privacy, it is time to give Firefox another chance. It really has improved a lot in the last couple of years in terms of stability and performance, to the point where it meets or exceeds Chrome in every aspect. Give Firefox an honest chance, you might switch back.
I agree totally with Mr. Petitt, that there needs to be independence from corporate giants on the web and, as somebody who opens a lot of tabs, running faster and leaner is something I like.
But that ain't enough of a value proposition for me and my business. Google provides email, storage and on line apps for free to any computer with a Chrome browser. Google offers analytics that allow businesses to track their web presence. Then there's the search thing. To be fair, many of these resources are available from Google on Firefox, but then you get a nagging message saying that others aren't available except on Chrome.
I'm looking forward to widespread adoption of HTML5 and it's APIs to help level the playing field, but without solid, tangible tools and resources uniquely available to Firefox it's always going to be used as an open-source, non-evil alternative to Chrome.
Mimetics Inc. Twitter
None of the 7 people in my house who all own computers use Chrome.
Its is and has always been Firefox.
3 laptops 5 desktops 1 tablet 7 phones 1 NAS/Linux/Windows/Gaming Server. and no Chrome.
We just don't use it.
I know and have known hundreds of people in dozens of fields ie: IT/Repair/Retail/Dev/ ect... nobody uses Chrome.
You know who does? probably your mom, no really ask her she probably uses Chrome, why? because advertising...
Firefox doesn't advertise because everyone in the know already uses it while avoiding Chrome like the plague.
Go inside a business and peek at the computer, it's Firefox 9/10 times.
Most Governments use Firefox.
Even Colleges will require you to connect with Firefox for security reasons.
Chrome is going to be like windows, it will only hold a large market share because it get shipped with hardware, and because it is so heavily advertised that most won't know any competition exists, while still being the most terrible piece of shit ever constructed.
I'm about to finally abandon Firefox when that extension stuff becomes a reality.
This is why I have always used America Online. I don't trust this Netscape Navigator thing or Chrome. I remember reading on alt.computers.users that AOL is the only safe, secure way to use a computer.
Plus, I really love those wave files in the chatrooms, like {S alphabetsucks and {S zuckerbergishitler.
Scruting the inscrutable for over 50 years.
I head up Firefox marketing, but I use Chrome every day.
That speaks volumes to the quality of Firefox.
But talking to friends, it sounds more and more like living on Chrome has started to feel like their only option. And unfortunately, too many people think Firefox isn’t a modern alternative.
Except it is. Yes, three years ago, Firefox was reeling. But today, Firefox is SO much better than it was even a year ago.
So, you're failing at your job and blaming your friends for not using a browser that you won't even use? Hold on, I came prepared.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
Personally, I thought it started as a thinkpiece and then seques into a whine that life isn't fair.
Mimetics Inc. Twitter
When they changed, unnecessarily mind you, the interface to their browser for about the millionth time. Just right when I was completely comfortable with the reload button being in the Nth spot and the Cancel button being in the Nth+1 spot they decided to move it all to the other side or just plain hide it from me.
Which meant I had to one figure out where things went to. Second, had to try to get used to the new button locations.
The Thunderbird project has a very bad habit of doing the same thing as well.
Only use Firefox now for compatibility testing. Otherwise it is just a memory hog that I remember as being run by people who do not have any appreciation for how they really upset people's workflow when they get a wild hair and feel the need to have all of the furniture on the other side of the room.
Caution: Contents under pressure
exacting a royal sum for our online behaviors
Lately my 'online behaviors' have consisted of "Tor" and "<null>", because I'm tired of snoopers. Let's see them monetize THAT.
But Rick, Tor exit nodes are all bugged and hacked!
So's your VPN. Or do you really think they're telling you the truth?
I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'm prepared to abandon the Internet if it becomes necessary. We survived and thrived just fine before it, and we can all do so once again. When there's no one of value using the Internet anymore, it'll either die off, or there will be reforms.
And yet your company is walking right into Chrome with open arms.
Firefox. uBlock Origin, Privacy Badger, HTTPS Everywhere. Pfsense box is the gatekeeper to my network. pfBlockerng + DNSBL lists means I can watch youtube videos on my smart tv with 0 ads.
Take back YOUR network; YOUR computer.
No, for that you need Courage.
I can block more junk, ads, spying, etc. using Firefox, so I mostly use Firefox. The Tor Browser is really just Firefox.
I mostly use Chrome when I want to be as non-private as possible for testing. Simple as that.
If the Tor Project can get a whole new board for being complete fuckups, why can't Mozilla?? It's been clear they've been circling the drain for years. Please, please, resign and save the Lizard!!
What should you do if your favorite web site prefers the Chromium engine, but you yourself hate the spyware Google created around it (named Chrome) ?
Look for a well supported Chromium-based browser:
There is not only Brave but also **Iridium Browser** (https://iridiumbrowser.de).
They claim adherence to European data protection standards, as well as having an reproducible and audible build process.
My main browser in the desktop is Seamonkey. I use it on Windows, I use it on NetBSD, I would probably use it if I ran a linux desktop. I usually only run Chrome if I really need to access something on a url where noscript just won't allow it to load. Chrome is the throwaway browser I am not afraid to wipe and reinstall if I need to go somewhere that might be toxic.
Why use a reskinned chrome when you can use something like QupZilla
I used Chrome for years and moved to Firefox because Chrome takes way too much memory, and that matters especially on low/mid-class laptops. Firefox used to be a slow and crash/hang all the time but now with multiprocess being rolled out it's fast and stable and doesn't kill your laptop.
Most users don't use that much extensions anyway, so for Mozilla performance is a bigger priority. New WebExtensions will come, with time.
And here Mozilla is, actively emulating Chrome more and more (when it's not boot-strapping itself to failing initiatives) and actually innovating in their browser...not at all...
A blind vegetable could have seen this coming!
C'mon Mozilla! Time to stop bitching about the fecal smell pull your fucking collective heads out!
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Eric Petitt, head up Firefox marketing, writing in a blog:
Why does Firefox need a head up marketing?
Shouldn't they just be programming motherfuckers?
Sounds like sore loser syndrome...
Chrome got such a market share because it made for a better (or less worse) experience. I used to swear by Firefox until, for a period, certain releases would just start consuming the entire system's resources. So I switched... to chrome.
Has the problem with Firefox gone away? Almost certainly.
But that is not enough to make me switch back. So long as chrome does not screw me over, and Firefox doesn't offer me anything revolutionary, I will remain. There is inertia with most customers.
Wan't to stop the big guys... offer a better alternative. If this article had been written in a year or two, Netflix would probably be in the group (in fact I'm surprised it wasn't already).
Firefox also worked on making web standards more and more complex, after all, they are in the standard committees. If they'd refuse to accept dubious standards, and instead focus on trying to make web standards orthogonal and as simple was possible while still keeping them flexible, there would be a healthy competition.
Instead Mozilla keeps semi-implementing standards, while making the GUI less and less usable.
Stop complaining about Chrome's marketshare and beat it with a better product. People aren't married to their browser if you make a better product they will switch
Facebook - yes. But the rest? I'm not aware of them 'partitioning of the web' - I can usually visit with any recent browser. Apple don't sell customer data either so...
All round "Huh?" from me. I kind of know what they're getting at, but it's swing-and-a-miss.
In fact, the entire Google ecosystem is downright evil. Because it's so downright creepy, even though I have an Android phone, I don't use GMail or Chrome or Google search.
I'd drop Chrome in a heartbeat if anything better came along. If the Firefox guys implemented some features around making the browser harder to identify and give the user some control over the javascript being run and the page being presented to the user, I'd consider switching back. Someone recently posted a great idea to maintain two document trees, the one that's presented to the user and the one that the page javascript thinks is being presented to the user. Maybe add a page blacklist so I can remove those spammy sites that pop up toward the bottom of the first page on Google from the internet I see. And let me use my favorite editor when entering text posts. That would actually be pretty nice.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
It installs services that are unnecessary on the Windows platform (feels like Windows 10). You try to uninstall the google updater it's a pain. I hate automatic updaters. I can remove it on Firefox.
There is also the Vivaldi Browser which users the chrome engine and gives you full control. (http://www.vivaldi.com) by the guys who made Opera. I find it very slick and runs on all my platforms (Linux, M$ Window$, MacOS) Always better to have choice.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge" - Einstein
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I used ghosteryon chrome, and it gave me a nice idea of what brave is blocking, natively. I use multiple email accounts for various purposes. One of which is, when I can easily spot a spoofing email about some financial account,in the account I use for general use. I am using 2 browsers for somewhat the same purpose. Brave and Chrome. The only time I use Firefox these days is to test something for compatability. I appreciate googles support of the Firefox project, alternatives are good, however, I want to firewall general browsing from important stuff, and Firefox does not fit that bill. Neither does chrome. Brave has a shot
I then tried Konqueror because I thought my noscript on FF might be the issue. That failed, so I tried Chrome and it worked.
I have similar issues trying to logon to the CapitalOne card site.
It may not be a cospiracy, but the sheer dominance of Chrome is starting to lead to an IE6 style lock-in.
Hmm, crazy idea, but maybe if you developed a browser that *you* actually wanted to use, you might get more market share from Chrome. I understand that you can't project your tastes onto everyone, but if you don't even prefer your own product, you might start to wonder if something is wrong with it.
I use Chrome when I have to (one of my client's software only works in Chrome and Chrome's development tools are pretty cool). Otherwise, I use Seamonkey, as I can find everything I need. I'll use Firefox when a web site refuses to serve Seamonkey (looking at you Slack), but otherwise the lack of menu items to find things like "Open file", or "open new window" makes it a bit annoying for my main browser. Ya, probably this is me not being used to the Firefox way of doing things, but anyway.