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US Might Ban Laptops On All Flights Into And Out of the Country (reuters.com)
The United States might ban laptops from aircraft cabins on all flights into and out of the country as part of a ramped-up effort to protect against potential security threats, U.S. Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly said on Sunday. From a report:In an interview on "Fox News Sunday," Kelly said the United States planned to "raise the bar" on airline security, including tightening screening of carry-on items. "That's the thing that they are obsessed with, the terrorists, the idea of knocking down an airplane in flight, particularly if it's a U.S. carrier, particularly if it's full of U.S. people." In March, the government imposed restrictions on large electronic devices in aircraft cabins on flights from 10 airports, including the United Arab Emirates, Qatar and Turkey. Kelly said the move would be part of a broader airline security effort to combat what he called "a real sophisticated threat." He said no decision had been made as to the timing of any ban. "We are still following the intelligence," he said, "and are in the process of defining this, but we're going to raise the bar generally speaking for aviation much higher than it is now."
That's about the only positive spin I can put on it. If they're worried about laptops with batteries, let me have one without; then I can just rent batteries when I travel, and the airline doesn't have to worry about it. It would be nice if the whole system could be more modular than laptops currently are.
Meanwhile terrorists are using trucks and going to concerts, not targeting planes. Naked flights coming soon.
So, I now bill my clients for "useless" travel time, no big.
Also, to avoid laptop damage, I use the free BestBuy/Target/Walmart laptop rental service. They do require a full deposit, but it's a free laptop rental for up to 14 days, usually covers it.
The trick to traveling to/from third world countries is to have nothing more than clothes or electronics worth more than say $40, otherwise some down on their look third worlder will steal it.
I have a compute stick, it's all I need, snagged it on ebay for $40. Perfect for thirld world countries. Or even raspi's. They work on third world televisions that have only composite in.
You mean laptops with REMOVABLE batteries? That's crazy, that would never work! That has never existed before.
Great, now how long do we have to wait till all electronics are banned? Maybe if it was actual security and not theater we wouldn't have this problem. Maybe if people were rational about the actual threat level and not scared like mice in daylight we wouldn't waste billions of dollars and hours of labor helping the terrorists win without them even attacking.
Yeah, but if companies put their mind to it and poured in enough R&D money over enough time, they might be able to develop the technology. I'm sure it would come with a price increase to pay for all the R&D, but if you want to be on the cutting edge of technology, it means paying the premium. I'm sure there are business travelers who would gladly pay for the "removable battery" tech, if something like that could be made.
or else they'd ban "Small, potentially explosive devices"
eg smart phones.
In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
If the explanation about a risk from laptops were the real reason for the ban, then the obvious solution would be to remove all of the Li-ion batteries from the laptops and to ban all electronics including iPhone 8+ and Samsung 8+ which do not have removable batteries and yet which are dangerous enough according to EgyptAir Flight 804 in 2016.
But that solution is not being used. Therefore, the real reason cannot be about protecting the planes. The real reason is more likely something to do with wanting to have unattended access to laptops by officials during the baggage security screening process.
Seriously, what the hell are you guys doing to your country?
Any type of clothing you wear.
Well, I think the whole idea is crazy. If people aren't allowed to carry them on, and they surely don't want to trust them to the baggage throwers, how are they supposed to bring a laptop with them on a business trip? Can people still bring their phones on the flight? How is a phone any different than a computer really? It's just a tiny computer. Can people bring phones, and bluetooth keyboards, and portable USB C monitors? You could basically bring all the components of a laptop on the plane without actually bringing any single item that actually qualifies as a laptop.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Does anyone remember why we are supposed to bring our batteries in the cabin? It is because of the risk of them catching fire, or exploding at low pressure, like found in a cargo hold. Especially when they are in devices like laptops.
I guess the TSA is just too incompetent though as every other place people have tried lining labors with explosives it has failed. Yes, I know the UK started this stupidity!
Oh well, I guess we'll just have to live with multiple ticking time bombs on every plane. I wonder when the first plane will crash from this idiotic policy?
Microsoft, Apple, Google, Amazon what's the difference? All steal money from devs and control with walled gardens.
When they banned bringing water through security, the sales of water bottles inside the security area. This will create a huge demand for rental businesses. You can already rent portable DVD players that you return at your destination airport. This could be expanded easily to laptops and iPads.
The real test about whether this is warranted is whether other countries will adopt similar bans. The ban on devices from Middle Eastern countries had a half-hearted and variable adoption in the UK and Canada. I also wonder if this is not a ploy of the terrorists. The IRA (Irish terrorist group not a US retirement account) used to phone up the police with fake bomb warnings for major London train stations to cause widespread disruption without actually having to do anything other than once every few years leaving a real but small explosive device just so the police could never ignore their warnings.
It seems that the current breed of terrorists might be playing the same game. Talking about a laptop device to bring down a plane when they think it is likely to be picked up simply to cause widespread disruption while sticking to bombing open venues, driving lorries through crowds or whatever similarly evil but security avoiding schemes their warped minds can come up with.
Or maybe it's time to ban all flights in and out of the country? Better safe than sorry.
While we're at it, let's ban all carry-on luggage, handbags, phones, etc.
Size matters... I mean, that's what I've heard..
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
You mean laptops with REMOVABLE batteries? That's crazy, that would never work! That has never existed before.
No lie, when talking about batteries due to being stopped I asked if they removed pacemaker batteries, MP3 player batter--- she interrupted and said she unplugs the wires (headphones) from those. Pretty much shut me up on the spot as I had no idea what I was really dealing with before that.
No, i don't mean that. I mean laptops with external batteries. Removable batteries means that you can't have a standardized battery, so there's no rental market.
Small batteries don't have enough mass to pose a problem.
Let's ban all flights and be done with it.
That's why the external battery. You just don't bring a battery. Then you can carry it on, because there's no battery, so you don't have to worry about getting ripped off.
Phones are okay because the battery doesn't have enough mass to be replaced by an explosive that can damage the airframe.
It's what we are now.
If this was a serious concern, then there are means by which it is possible to require passengers to demonstrate the working functionality of their laptop/netbook equipment before the flight.
So, this is either an ill-thought-through remark that has either been mis-represented by the press [or will be withdrawn by the spokesperson]; or in the alternate, it is a legitimate statement of intent for which the underlying desire is to squeeze competing airlines out of the routes that fly to and/or from the United States.
One thing we can be pretty sure of: this has nothing to do with flight safety.
US Might Ban Laptops On All Flights Into And Out of the Country, this is considered a prelude to the Trump administrations next major move in aviation security which is to ban passengers and cargo on all flights in and out of the USA. In an interview on "Fox News Sunday" U.S. Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly was quoted as saying: "We have determined that the largest two security risks in aviation are passengers and cargo. Passengers are basically a bunch of morons anyway and unquestionably a general nuisance and they are just far to vulnerable to terrorist attacks plus, an alarming number of them are actually evil foreigners. Furthermore, there are just way to many places to hide bombs in air cargo so after a lengthy 12 second consultation with president Trump during a commercial break on 'Fox and Friends' POTUS decided that we should just ban them. It's a pretty clever idea, It just simplifies everything when the aircraft are empty, security checks are shorter, there are no delays around boarding, no crowding in the airport terminal, no security lines, the turn-around rate at airports will also skyrocket. In fact we won't be needing airport terminals at all anymore since aircraft are only stopping to refuel before returning to what ever dystopian foreign hell hole they came from in the first place so we'll be re-purposing the airport terminals as presidential adulation centres. We'll also be laying off large numbers of redundant TSA staff who'll be re-hired at lower wages by subsidiaries of The Trump Organisation and sent into the deserts to build the US-Mexico border wall which POTUS assures us the Mexicans have now agreed to pay for."
Some pacemakers have plutonium batteries.
No interest in 205 billion dollars from tourism anymore. No business flights anymore. No big airports needed anymore.No short tripps to Hawai anymore. No international fairs and congresses anymore.. Perhaps the big cruise ships will regain importance? Perhaps travelling to canadas big planned new airports and passing the border to USA via bus or the really fast train?
"That's the thing that alarmists are obsessed with, the terrorists, the idea of knocking down an airplane in flight, particularly if it's a U.S. carrier, particularly if it's full of U.S. people."
FTFY
Americans, take a last look at all those conferences in the US. They will be gone shortly after this idiocy comes in action.
https://i0.wp.com/thisishistor...
#DeleteFacebook
The ban apparently also includes cameras, and I will not (ever) put my camera in my (for all intents and purposes unlocked) hold luggage.
No matter visiting national parks or interesting cities, and no more doing business in that country.
Well, I suppose I could fly into Canada and cross the border by car. Or are laptops also forbidden on those borders?
So... Power sockets.
Basically the portable batteries we get for phones but with a laptop compatible power socket. It wouldn't require any re-design and nobody would have to agree on a standard which would never happen in the first place.
The intelligence bar for the TSA is not very high. Best to avoid all conversation and try to get through the check without incident.
Phones are only allowed up to the following dimensions: 16cm x 9.3cm x 1.5cm. Nothing larger than that is allowed in the cabin on Etihad and Qatar Airways flights with destinations to the USA. Furthermore I have been told of people with wireless headphones who were forced to gate check them, so some gate agents are quite strict.
I doubt you'd have much luck getting a full sized wireless keyboard and a display on board, as both are electronic devices greater than the allowed size. When I've flown during previous times of strict security requirements they deployed secondary xrays at the gate, immediately before boarding, in case you obtained something after initial security.
I get the comfort of checking $4k+ worth of camera equipment in my bag coming back from Africa due to these restrictions.
Only APPS can app apps, NOT LUDDITE laptops!
Apps!
It's coming, but you have to do it in baby steps so people don't bitch much.
Nah much better to ban the US, better safe than sorry.
This is about inconveniencing people so badly that they'll gladly say "Yes please" when the TSA demand the budget for newer equipment - equipment that would allow laptops back onto the planes. Some equipment manufacturers are about to make a lot of money off the government.
Isn't it more dangerous to check a laptop and put it in the baggage compartment?
I thought the most likely hazard of a laptop on a plane is the battery catching fire due to a defective design.
People have had their laptops catch fire in the passenger compartment. That seems safer, because they can see it on fire and put the fire out.
If the laptop catches fire in the baggage compartment, isn't it more likely to burn without anybody noticing it and lead to a bigger fire?
This below are comments from pilots and their spokespersons:
Some airline pilots and safety advocates have questioned putting more electronics into checked luggage. In rare circumstances, lithium-ion batteries spark fires, which could go undetected in the cargo hold.
After reports the U.S. would expand the laptop ban to Europe, the British Airline Pilots’ Association said May 15 that the risk would be greater with electronics in cargo than in the cabin.
“Given the risk of fire from these devices when they are damaged or they short-circuit, an incident in the cabin would be spotted earlier and this would enable the crew to react quickly before any fire becomes uncontainable,” said Steve Landells, a flight-safety specialist for British pilots. “If these devices are kept in the hold, the risk is that if a fire occurs the results can be catastrophic.”
Kelly told reporters Friday that the Federal Aviation Administration tracks safety issues while he oversees security, but he’s been told that batteries in electronics should be safe in checked luggage so long as they are turned off and not rattling around loose.
So now we're having to calculate if the risk of something really bad happening onboard due to an electronic device's battery kept in the cargo hold catching fire is higher than the risk of terrorists having explosives in their laptops.
...problems like these.
Why not just go "whole hog" and ban international flights??? That's the absolute way to prevent any bombing of airline flights!
Ban laptops (which removes another several hours of productivity for some folk), and attackers will use luggage. Ban luggage and they will use pants made of fibers with the requisite explosive materials that can be reformed in the lavatory on-board. Ban pants and they will insert them in their own body cavities, or have them surgically implanted.
At root, bureaucrats are scared of losing their jobs (and rightly so...they ARE inept), so they propose Draconian solutions that will garner them "good press," until (like TSA searches and x-ray'd baggage before them) are defeated. It is NOT IN THEIR SELF INTEREST to actually solve the problem; Bureaucracies have one goal: Perpetuate their own existence.
What is takes is a group of qualified citizens to address the issues, knowing that they will be disbanded after the solutions are proven to work. Focus on the outcome: Safe air travel!
America is great again.
I repeat, what a joke.
If you are going to have to check simething valuable get serious about your luggage.
I had to travel to Africa with a lot of expensive photo gear in the past as well, too big to carry on. So I got a Pelican hard case, about the same size as a large suitcase.
It lets you attach multiple padlocks to the case. Coming back from Botswana, the luggage thieves managed to pry off one lock but not the other as they are very recessed - even with just one lock you cannot pry the case open. So side note, travel with extra locks... both TSA and non TSA locks (when locking out of country do not need TSA locks and they are easy to pick).
Going to start using the pelican cases for all luggage if I have to start checking my laptop.
I guess my one overseas international trip a year is going to require me to return via Toronto or Montreal... West coast-ers can use Vancouver. Even though it's just a chromebook I use the flying time to organize all the pictures I took while on vacation. Not cool TSA, not cool...
USB-C power actually has a chance of getting adopted as a standard. Even Apple has switched to it, which is pretty surprising given how long they've ignored the calls for using micro USB in favour of proprietary dock connector and lightning cables.
Yeah, because it is easy to get out a HD from a portable. Especially for those millions of people who have no idea it is even possible.
This is not about a few Hax0rs who can get around the system. This is about an assault on your personal life.
First they came for the business people ...
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Ain't it obvious? What travellers should do is put everything up in Google Drive/OneDrive/Dropbox, and fly w/o their laptops. When they get to their destinations, they should go to the office/conference they're headed to, log into any of the conference laptops there, and pick up work where they left off. Everything is on the cloud, so lugging around laptops is akin to days when trade happened by camels travelling hundreds of miles.
And in the event of an internet outage, back up everything temporarily on their phone, and back it up on the cloud again once the internet is back, and resume work
A phone is different from a laptop in the sense that there is less space inside to hide explosives. The possibility of terrorists stuffing large electronics with enough explosives to bring down a plane is the concern that prompted the current, limited, US and UK bans on carrying laptops into the cabin from a handful of airports.
This rumored ban would affect many more people, but presumably the reason for distinguishing between phones and laptops (room to hide stuff inside) remains the same.
I would think that something this ridiculous couldn't be possible in a democracy, but then I remember the backward rednecks who voted in Trump, probably never get on planes anyway. Planes are just something that those who don't live in fly-over-country use to fly over them. So why not make them as annoying as possible to use?
US might ban all travel between residences in the US, without an armed security screening. Land of the FREE, cowering in fear.
This has to do with isis manufacturing laptops with an integrated shaped charge so as to easily pass security yet be effective enough to rupture the wall of an aircraft. This has nothing to do with laptop battery fires. Before trump blabbed this to the Russians he met with in the Oval Office right after firing Comey, I'd already guessed this when a similar ban was implemented from middle eastern and European flights.
The way government run airline security is going, this is what the future holds:
Pre-takeoff announcement, around 2030: "Please remain in your seats and place your hands and feet into the shackles. We will take off after the cabin crew has secured all passengers. Please use the blowtube in front of your face if you need to use the facilities. Please note that there is a $150 fee for each bathroom trip and you will be accompanied at all times. Cabin crew of an incompatible gender and sexual orientation is available upon request."
Pre-takeoff announcement, around 2050: "Please remain in your seat, attach the electrode cap to your head, stay calm, and breathe deeply; this ensures a quicker transition into unconsciousness and allows us to meet our tight takeoff window. When EEG monitors show that all passengers have lost consciousness, we will be taking off. If you have a medical condition that is incompatible with common anesthetics, please let the cabin crew know now. You will be held responsible for any delays due to problems related to anesthetization, and civil and criminal penalties may apply. Please note that if you soil your seat while unconscious, you will be charged a cleaning fee of $1500."
Meanwhile, of course, politicians and CEOs will be whisked around the globe in semi-private jets, free from all the government regulations, union rules, and crony capitalism that they impose on the rest of us.
Aren't 18650 cells already standard, and reasonably common now due to e-cigs?
Speaking of which, why don't the terrorists simply stock up on the Samsung Note 7s?
So ship your laptop separately. GP did mention that too, but I suppose you weren't going to let that stop you from whining because you just HAD to say something negative instead of learning how to read or contributing to the conversation in any meaningful way.
from Eurasia: http://www.independent.co.uk/n...
No security checks, beautiful nature, arriving into a city center, no baggage limit, free WiFi, etc.
That's easy. Use a Chromebook and pick up a new one when you land. That way, all of your data is available on Google's servers for the US government to look at and decide whether they whether they want to let you into the country, before you even board the plane.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
B'cos our courts won't let us. The first travel ban was shot down by a court in WA, then the revised ban was shot down by courts in HI, CA and now MD. When we can't cleanly ban people from 6 countries where it's impossible to vet their terrorist backgrounds, it's worth pulling all stops everywhere else so that people have to jump thru hoops to come. If one wanna blame it on Trump, go ahead. But we're not gonna risk having more Manchesters: the risks are bad as they are since we can't deport all the Muslims already here
The thing is that it does not solve the real issue. The problem is NOT the PCs. The thing is the security theater and people being ok with it.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Not when its an SSD soldered to the motherboard (Apple).
Laptops were doing this a decade ago. Every component had a little plastic cover you could remove a small screw, or just slide out. Then you could replace your memory chips, hard disk drives, battery, GPU, cooling fans, Hard disk drives and memory could be upgraded. In theory the GPU could be upgraded but no vendor then or now has ever produced a GPU upgrade (even though advertised as a premium feature).
There is the really expensive commercial data on the laptop's storage device that the 3 letter agancies won't mind snooping. And check your expensive laptop in a bag that is legally required to be unlockable by some nameless TSA contractor. I guess this is the government's way to share the wealth so those poorly paid TSA workers will not longer need to buy computing equipment for friends and family.
Don't worry. Being that there's a corporate-favour heavy government, all you'll have to do is pay another $2000 for you to be able to use your laptop...
you know, for security!
Ironic Captcha: Prices
No laptops, no cameras, no electronic watches, and soon no electronic pacemakers! Yes, leave your pacemaker in the checked bag!
Has it occurred to anyone else that it saves them dealing with irate customers at screening when they want to image your devices....doing it in your suitcase makes it much easier. Encryption helps, but you have to wonder who's help they have in that regard.....
If this ban goes into place, Apple will immediately find itself losing a huge chunk of sales in the business market. Many companies require that corporate laptops remain in the control of the employee at all time. You can't check the laptop, even if you trusted that a $2K to $4K computer wouldn't immediately be pilfered by baggage handlers.
But it's not the laptop that necessarily needs to be secure, it's the storage. If you could remove the SSD and the RAM, you could put them in your carry-on luggage, and check the rest of the computer. For that matter, you could rent a "shell" computer at your destination, install the SSD and RAM, and be ready to go .... except that (oops!) in a MacBook everything is soldered to the motherboard.
So here's the silver lining: if this ban goes into place, Apple will need to offer a "business model" MacBook with removable storage, and possibly a removable battery, for people who routinely travel overseas. This may be anathema for a company that prides itself on "professional" models that are thin enough to shave with, but it would be a breath of fresh air to everyone who wants a laptop computer that is actually upgradeable and repairable.
Special check-in baggage fee for laptops-only?
the idea of knocking down an airplane in flight, particularly if it's a U.S. carrier, particularly if it's full of U.S. people
So what is it about already being in the US, that would make it impossible for a baddie to put a bomb in a laptop and board an internal flight ... on a US carrier ... full of US people?
Once the individual has gained entry to the country (or done so by being born there), is there any special difficulty with sourcing the materials needed. Or is it just that internal flights from every little two-bit airport has so much better security than ANY of the major hubs in any country you care to mention?
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
since the airlines have gone wild with doing away with seatback displays (or the big CRT monitor hanging from the ceiling), replacing it with "BYOD and stream from our inflight wifi", this is going to cause a bit of customer discontent - not everyone wants to watch a movie on a phone screen.
Surely you've seen the videos. Almost all checked bags on long haul flights is in containers which are specifically designed to be blast and fire resistant.
Only a complete moron wouldn't be able to do it.
Not when its an SSD soldered to the motherboard (Apple).
I rest my case.
Dear god,
We are long overdue for another flood.
And this time, please finish the job.
....Trump wants to implement massive funding cuts for airport security. This ban will do little more than ruin the US economy and make Canadian and European airlines rich, especially when they bundle a car rental or other transit options for US & Canada. Flying to Montreal and driving south instead of NYC might be an inconvenience, but folks can at least bring their laptops. Maybe Amtrak should jump on the opportunity and put more trains on the Empire corridor.
I did that when I flew to Europe in '15, bought a Chromebook for the trip. But the purpose was weight saving and leaving my MacBook Air at home so I wouldn't risk it being damaged or stolen. All I needed was something for email and transferring photos from SD cards to USB sticks. And I'm quite happy with the Chromebook, I just wish mine had a keyboard light.
Now, if I ever fly out of the country again, it's going to be to Mexico or Canada, then to my destination. I can read a paperback until I get my devices back.
When you sympathize with stupidity, you start thinking like an idiot.
This could just be an epic effort to taint the intel. Just by threatening this kind of attack, they are causing fear, economic damage, civil unrest. Actually blowing up a plane is just a bonus. In the meantime, while all eyes are on the most difficult and best protected targets, they can move more easily on soft targets like concerts...
"That's the thing that they are obsessed with, the terrorists, the idea of knocking down an airplane in flight, particularly if it's a U.S. carrier, particularly if it's full of U.S. people."
Oh, bullshit! If any non-brain-dead terrorist had been intending to take down airliners it would have already happened! TSA is a terribly-bad joke and has failed miserably every time it's effectiveness has been tested. This is more about getting people used to having their personal devices being banned/restricted and taken from their possession and control under certain circumstances, particularly when entering or leaving the country, without any other legal probable cause. It's also about attacking civil rights including privacy.
The reasons given for this proposal don't hold up to logic. It is security theater of the worst kind; Intended to reduce the security of the general population rather than increase it. We see the same behavior with the NSA withholding information about the existence of massive and dangerous computer security vulnerabilities in vital US infrastructure. *Your* security is their very *last* concern!
Strat
Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
A desparate measure of clueless 'security' agency. I want John Kelly to take off his shoes a 100 times on national tv, this would make us all safer
It's allowed in checked baggage.
Apparently the amount of explosive they're worried about laptops containing would only be enough to break the fuselage if held against it. Such a laptop bomb exploding within the cargo section would only damage luggage.
I'm a dreamer, the world is my playpen. But hey, I'm a serious person, I can't dream all the time.
In the last 18 months there's been this external USB-C battery renaissance. As long as the seats have ~40w USB-C outlets you should be able to power most-all laptops
moox. for a new generation.
I have a super heavy old laptop that I will be travelling with. It's old, slow, but it get the job done. Just the power brick weighs as much as some newer laptops. But it's EOL, and perfect for traveling to third world countries. It's on old AMD Athlon. Since the client pays for the flight and baggage not my problem.
And since baggage claims are paid by weight, I could probably score much more than the laptop is worth should the third world baggage monkeys break it.
Doesn't matter, client gets billed either way.
Could always bring the compute stick, but that is worth more than $50, which is my electronics limit for third world countries. Could always claim it on the credit card insurance, but it's just a hassle I can do without.
I don't understand why we can't just build a yuge physical wall around all "bad" things such as airplanes, laptops, violence, hatred, and any sort of other philosophical differences or government dissent. There, problem solved!
lol no, a small explosive anywhere on an aircraft would be catastrophic, even the baggage compartment. You do understand what happens when you have a rapidly expanding gas in a confined space, right? These aircraft are built of thin aluminium and composites, they're not exactly the most rugged of machines. This is just more security theater and limp dick bureaucrats trying to justify their existence.
No joke, they are almost all Affirmative Action hires straight out of the ghetto, at least in NY / NJ.
Removable batteries means that you can't have a standardized battery, so there's no rental market.
Yeah, my flashlights with removable batteries have to use non-standard batteries, and it's really awkward.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
The age of business travel is dead. My company is officially ceasing all international business flights starting next year. We can get a lot more done with with video conferencing and email and we've had some promising results with VR. While employees are saved from having to fly around and waste days on travel, they'll still be stuck on with the smaller timezone problems.
Actually Dell used to sell upgrade GPU's for their D6x0 Latitude line. Was a little harder to replace than RAM or a hard drive but it was possible.
Here are some reference pages on various types of death in the US:
So, your chance of dying of various things in the US is:
The TSA failure to find weapons and explosives rate is 95%. IE, they only find 1 out of 20: https://www.theguardian.com/co...
It looks like you could show a decrease in deaths by shutting down the TSA and spending the money on all kinds of other things. For example, you would probably save thousands of people every year, if you took the TSA's budget and used that money to give a daily carrot to everybody in America.
Of course, the future of the KID (Karrot Issuance Daily) agency is not all shiny orange. The yearly number of carroticides might even exceed the number of US people killed by terrorists. But, even factoring in the increase of death by carrot, there still would be tremendous net positive benefit.
Yeah, right, rapid decompression is always completely catastrophic, see the list below, they all make for fascinating reading.
The last link is particularly noteworthy, since this was an actual terrorist attempting to blow up a plane who only managed to kill himself.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_96
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Airlines_Flight_27
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_811
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_5390
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qantas_Flight_30
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_Airlines_Flight_2294
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_Airlines_Flight_812
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daallo_Airlines_Flight_159
What they haven't thought about, is what happens when a regular, non-terrorist laptop gets damaged and its lithium battery ignites (which can be some time after the baggage handler tossed it into the hold). I read a report that these fires are so fierce that the cargo compartment fire suppressant system cannot handle them.
Ironic, really. Instead of having to smuggle bombs into the planes themselves, the terrorists can just sit back and wait for the first planes to burn up due to lithium battery fires. IS can claim each one.
How does it matter if an explosive laptop is in the cabin or in the cargo bay? When it explodes, the plane goes down. In both cases, the person who brought the thing on board, dies too. So, how does it matter?
no, I don't have a sig
Let the laptops fly, ban all incoming passengers
Because we have yet to see any supporting evidence and this idea is being pushed by US intelligence agency's also in charge of data collection, we should wonder if this is really about creating an environment where data is forced to flow over the network and can be intercepted, (perhaps a first step) if we ban laptops surely other devices must follow. Where does this rabbit hole end?
In the latest Macbook/Macbook Pro Retinas with the Touch Bar Apple SOLDERS the SSD to the board to prevent
the user from upgrading it ---- this also means you cannot remove it, Or if your laptop becomes damaged then you're screwed, no way to move your data, and Apple stores won't help you extract data, not for a million bucks.
Just as you could be ejected from a shop for not wearing a shirt, if you want the INconvenience of flying you have to abide by their rules while doing so.
FTFY
We all know that it is the demon saxophone that has lured our young women into whoring, drug addiction and promiscuity. And now they try to blame all the woes of society upon laptops. It is just the devil trying to get you to ignore the evil saxophones. That siren voice just compels listeners into the satanic realms. Maybe these people are using laptops to spread the evil influence of saxophones. I must run now i have some witches that must be burned.
If they are considering banning laptops on flights out of the US... can someone/anyone please explain how a domestic outbound flight is different from an international one. This argument doesn't even make sense.
Lest we forget, it bears remembering that the hijacked flights that took down the Twin Towers were domestic ones... why would a terrorist only take his explosives on to an international flight? If they enact this ban, it would have to be on every flight, domestic or international.
Then why have a laptop at all?
~ People that think they are better than anyone else for any reason are the cause of all the strife in the world.
Everyone loves more dongles, and an external battery is probably the biggest one you can get your hands on. Sounds ideal for a airplane tray table.
That's the thing that they are obsessed with, the terrorists, the idea of knocking down an airplane in flight, particularly if it's a U.S. carrier, particularly if it's full of U.S. people.
So this restriction will apply to domestic flights?
Watch this Heartland Institute video
The thing is that it does not solve the real issue. The problem is NOT the PCs. The thing is the security theater and people being ok with it.
No, the REAL problem is the US and the UK going to other countries and killing the people who live there in an effort to
control the resources of those countries.
In the end it would be more cost-effective to pay for those resources in cash than to engender hate among millions of people.
If you don't agree with this, consider how YOU would feel if some other country attacked your neighborhood with drones and killed your family. I'm not a Muslim nor am I a supporter of any form of terrorism, but the notion that the US and UK are innocent victims is something only an idiot or a very young child would believe.
If it's so inconvenient then you shouldn't mind finding a different method of getting to your destination and you can stop complaining now.
While we are talking about possibilities, a battery explosive going off and taking a plane down on a flight in the next 10 years... is still far less than you dying in a car accident on your way to work...
You are stupid if you buy one of those.
It's why I still can't take my water bottle on any flight despite there having never in the history of aviation ever been a credible threat related to liquids.
There *IS* a credible threat related to liquids...
...a threat to the profits of the businesses selling liquids at a steep price on the other side of the security checks.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
I doubt you'd have much luck being able to even use a full sized keyboard, seeing how cramped seats are now. I gave up after only a few minutes trying to use my laptop on my last flight; too little space to use comfortably. Heck, there was barely enough space to open up a magazine for reading. Maybe trans-oceanic flights are roomier but trying to use a laptop on domestic flights was a waste of time.
CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
Tourism doesn't bring any money in right?
Why not?
That way if the laptop gets damaged, your data is safe and the airline has to buy you a new laptop.
Which airline? They all seem to say "You assume the risk of us breaking your stuff if you put it into checked baggage."
Additionally, most seem to say "Don't check your laptop because we can't be sure it won't get broken." Except now you have to. wah-wah.
Size matters... I mean, that's what I've heard..
Quite true. Faggots prefer small penises so that their anuses don't hurt so much when they get penetrated.
1-2 day business trips are common, Shipping the laptop for a 1 day trip is stupid. You'd need to have two laptops to avoid loss of productivity. Basically , a terrorist coughs and we spend millions on napkins
Its is not the battery, but rather the SPACE is occupies that could be filled with something else. A fake battery that just powers the the screen, when checked, could be used.
Examining the history of persons involved in doing shit to people around them in a spectacular way, boils down to a common profile, followers of a religion that advocates holy war. Usually young, male, and of middle eastern DNA, not 86 year old grand maws from Idaho.
This means that the majority of travelers in the western sphere should not be anal probed.
It's closer to winning the Powerball in point of fact. If terrorism is anywhere remotely on someone's radar for shit they're scared of as an American, they're a fucking moron who could use a healthy dose of practical thinking and pragmatic response.
Admittedly, none of us (or at least very few of us) here have any insider knowledge of exactly what the threat is. But what I don't get - if the bad guys are able to somehow make a nefarious device that isn't detected in going through security, does having it in the cargo hold vs. the passenger deck really make a difference?
I can't be bothered with this.
Which places are lowering the bar to encourage business and won't respond to the terrorists no matter what?
A blog I run for the wealth
That's easy. Use a Chromebook and pick up a new one when you land.
Even easier: don't visit countries openly hostile to foreigners and their rights. Everything else is just asking for further escalation. You need to be the one drawing the line here since the U.S. obviously can no longer be relied on doing that anywhere sane.
The Airlines are against it.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Sure, and that would probably be OK.
Since Trump can't keep his mouth shut we know that the reason for this new rule is because an Israeli spy found out that ISIS is experimenting with laptop bombs. I don't know if they were trying to make the battery explode or if they are replacing the battery with something more explosive.
The thing is that a laptop is a nice blackbox that doesn't raise suspicion when you can't see through it with x-ray.
You can hide a bomb in and they are typically allowed on planes.
If you take your laptop apart before the flight so that every component can be clearly inspected then there isn't really any reason to prevent you from taking it on board.
Same thing with your makeshift laptop from a phone with external screen.
The laptop-ban isn't there to prevent you from taking a laptop aboard, it is a simplification to let untrained personnel prevent you from taking a bomb disguised as a laptop on board.
I already now do not like to fly to the US for several political reasons, ... but with that even more people will avoid in personal business meetings like the plague. And tourist may also go see other things.
I certainly do not want to waste 10+ hours on a flight doing nothing, and have my laptop luggage lost or whatever. Also: Have your laptop / smartphone confiscated at the US boarded, because you are in Linux programming, touched crypto libs and such. No thanks.
This is how far the free and open western society has come. Sad. Just sad.
I understand the necessity of stopping terrorists - I doubt anyone would disagree - but it is only firefighting, I think. As we see more and more, they just find other ways - they recruit disenfranchised Americans, they find ways into American infrastructure via the internet etc; both of which are easy targets, I'm sad to say, particularly in America.
And I think it is naive and simplistic to think that terrorism is merely about "killing Americans because they hate freedom". True, some terrorists are religious fanatics, who want to bring about the end of the world and the final judgement, but I think most of the high-ranking ones are simply crime-bosses who have found it to be a lucrative business, and a large proportion of their cannon-fodder are disenfranchised, young people, whose journey into radicalisation should be understood as a form of self-destructive behaviour similar to self-harming, suicide and drug-addiction. The only way to stop the terrorism problem from getting more out of hand is by fixing the problems in our society, that produce vulnerable, young people: the inequality, the lack of real hope, the absense of opportunities if you are born into the wrong place. When you grow up knowing from your earliest years, that you are worthless - born a loser - no matter how hard you try, it is very, very hard to break out, and it is very hard not to come to hate those well-fed bastards, with their smug opions, whose life looks so easy by comparison - especially when you are told all the time that you are lose because you are lazy and stupid. I know - I made that journey.
The bigger the package, the bigger the bomb that can be hidden in it. And as we all know, the bigger the bomb, the bigger the boom.
And many company policies prohibit checking laptops due to risk of damage or theft. Based on my experience flying, it's a more than reasonable concern.
What's to prevent the same laptop with explosives, banned from the cabin, from blowing up in the cargo hold on a timer?
And the same laptop in luggage can't be remotely triggered from the cabin with a cell? Or on a timer? Sleep until gps reads 31000ft for 30 minutes. Boom.
Why not a laptop ban on all flights. Remember, all the 9/11 flights were domestic. Even if there is a credible international threat, a ban on international flights to and from the US would just cause a shift plans not in tactics.
About 10 years ago, I happened to see an image of a laptop going thru an X-ray machine.
I noted how the batteries looked like a big pile of goo with some wires and little hard pieces attached.
It was obvious that this was a good place to hide a gadget and so it was probably something best not publicized.
So now this is known in the news.
So why did it take so long?
The TSA must have known about it for quite a while, since they put in the take your laptop out of the case and the power it up rile some time ago.
But the bad guys apparently didn't know about it until recently.
Are the bad guys really slower than the TSA?
Seems unlikely, but the sequence of events seems to show otherwise.
If you think that checking laptops is about aircraft security, then I'm sorry but you are new.
It doesn't matter what actual reasoning they give for the proposed rule. Taking the batteries out of your laptop will not help. It's not about batteries. It's not about bombs. It's about US authorities having unfettered access to your laptop for the X amount of hours between when you check it and when you collect it. I'd highly recommend people start putting security tape on their laptops when they fly anywhere, not just the US. The kind that can't be removed and put back on without being visually obvious. Whole-disk-encryption is also a great idea, but can only help by denying them access to your data, it can't prevent them from installing malware.
Things you can do to mitigate an adversary having physical access to your computer:
- Separate your hard drive from your laptop and take the hard drive as carry on. This will be easier if it's an SSD drive.
- Use whole-disk-encryption like VeraCrypt. When you get your laptop back, DO NOT boot from the hard drive. Instead boot from a VeraCrypt rescue disk that was previously burned and preferable carried with you in carry on. When you do, ensure you replace the bootloader with one that is from the previously burned disc.
- If you use Linux and whole-disk-encryption, then make sure you have an image of the unencrypted boot partitions and/or boot loaders. Again, this must be taken with you in carry on.
- If you cannot do any of the above, at the VERY least take the time to boot into a live CD version of Linux and take a hash of your hard drive. Make sure that none of the filesystems on your drive are mounted when you do this. This will take some time, and you cannot boot your computer normally between the time you take the hash and the time you verify the hash. However, this will tell you if anything has been changed on your hard drive between when you checked it and collected it. It won't tell you what has changed, but it will at least give you a heads up that you can't trust your laptop any more.
Don't worry, this is just part of their business plan. In a couple months new "scanners" will be out that can detect whatever this threat is, and they'll sell them to all the airports and then you'll be able to take your laptop with you again. They have to have some reason to replace all the hardware every two years or so.
Nah, impossible.
That is a strange target for that quote.
Just Ban Muslims on All flights Everywhere. Problem Solved. While we are at it, Get rid of H-1b Visas and Foreign Student Visas. Again, problem solved. And don't give the B.S> answer that we need "smart foreigners", because, that is just not true. Simple answer, from a college and business standpoint, it is cheaper to get foreign students because its easier to fill seats in college, nd in business, when you have people that will live 10-15 per suburban house you can pay them less. It is time for the Muslims to get rid of our problem, and frankly by REALLY inconveniencing the majority they'll be forced to pressure on the "Few" and clean up this mess.... 64k question is "Do they really want to?" Or is this the systematic problem/goal of Islam? The silent masses seem to confirm that the "minority" is really doing the work to rid the world of "infidels". Same "infidels" by the way that go our of their way to bring them to the USA and exploit them for labor. While at the same time taking seats in classes and jobs that American CAN and WOULD do! So MR or MS MBA, EVEN IF you want the Muslims here because they are "Cheap Labor", Question is Do you want/need your laptop more?
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke
This makes no one safer just makes flying more inconvenient. Now I only fly when I absolutely have to. It might take an extra day to drive but I rather do that at this point than deal with the airport. This just gives me one more reason to avoid it.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin
WTF?
Not true. I saw you being fucked by a huge big black cock just a few days ago and you were loving it.
And I'm quite happy with the Chromebook, I just wish mine had a keyboard light.
If it's got brown keys with white letters like my Asus, stick-on black on white keyboard letters will make it usable in much lower light.
Or you could get a clip-on light (but I expect you'd thought of that).
Example stick-ons https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00SYG7Y2O/ref=twister_B00SYG7ROE?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
Despite the Fight Club reference, I'm actually mean that as a serious question.
El Al has some of, if not THE, best security in air travel. Why doesn't the US just do what the Israelis do? I mean, I find it hard to believe that they are anywhere near as childish in their approach as the TSA is.
Anyone have experience flying in and out of Israel on El Al? How does it compare to flying in and out of the U.S.?
Sorry, but you have to take that out before you are allowed to board the plane. If you refuse we remove it by force before we kick you out of the airport.
Airplane could have seats with just a connector you plug the laptop into during the flight. If needed it could all be connected to a shared battery somewhere to cover for power-usage spikes... They could even charge you a few extra $$ for the service when in economy.. All similar to the power-outlets they have for some seats on airplanes.
Your own battery would be in the checkin-luggage and reconnected to the laptop-body after arriving.
If people aren't allowed to carry them on, and they surely don't want to trust them to the baggage throwers, how are they supposed to bring a laptop with them on a business trip?
Pack your laptop with your firearm.
Lassie could hear that dog whistle from Pluto! Racists gonna race......
Carry 2 flash drives. One has all the data you need for the meeting, the other is a Linux distro you boot the borrowed PC off of.
This is /. and on the tech section. How can no one think of people adding in keyloggers in software and/or hardware to the rented laptop to get more money?
In the end it would be more cost-effective to pay for those resources in cash than to engender hate among millions of people
You are not considering the economic benefits of creating unrest around the world for countries selling the more powerful weapons in the world.
And the long term benefit of dominating a country and controlling its trade once it has submitted to your will.
Or... just run linux on a USB stick or SD card and then pop it into any Intel based PC/laptop/tablet once you arrive and save yourself the purchase cost.
Also, encrypt your stick and include a Windows partition with random data on it, so the border guards won't intrude on your business.
I like your ideas, but I don't think you go far enough.
Don't even have any unencrypted partitions on your Linux with whole-disk-encryption. Instead have the boot drive on a micro SD card. Then put the SD card in a smooth oval container. Lather the container in jelly and stick it up your butt. But sure to go before you do this so that you don't flush your boot loader into the Rockies mid-flight.
If you're really serious about security, having any significant time in which someone else has access to your laptop not in your presence destroys the usefulness of the laptop to you, so you may as well give it away or sell it and buy a new one.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
That'll be business/ first class only then. Certainly not in cattle class seats.
Just how much would you be prepared to pay for this. Or, more precisely, how much additional do you think the beancounters in the Transport Office of your employer will be prepared to reimburse you? I bet it'll be approximately a big fat zero.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
That would be ... ummm .... China, Russia ... Sweden ... and of course the peace-loving Swiss.
Well we know which one of those has a pawn residing in the White House.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
If only there were a simple alliterative mantra espousing the benfits of regularly backing up your data on a schedule so that any losses from hardware failure are easily remedied. Something like "backup early ; backup often ; back up soon."
Or something like that.
I mean, we've been touting the necessity of a backup schedule for home computers for what is it - 40 years now?
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
Sounds to me like you need to investigate the comparative cost of posting your goods as fully insured packages. And, of course, a suitable flight case.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
Technical fail : do you realise that GPS decoders need to be able to receive radio signals from at least four satellites to work. And those signals don't penetrate through metal sheet very well. Try using your GPS inside a warehouse one day.
IF your phone has a barometer, then that might be a workable trigger.
Oh, I get it. You actually don't know how mobile phone technology works. Or you're still thinking of some bizarre early 1990s pre-GSM analogue concoction you power from a couple of motorcycle batteries.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
Errr, this point needs elaboration. Just how would it be significantly easier changing an SSD in (say) 2.5in SATA form factor than it would be changing a RR (rotating rust) drive in 2.5in SATA form factor. OK - I'll admit that I've never seen an SSD drive, but all the adverts specify that they're a drop-in replacement for a RR drive. So there should be no difference in their installation or maintenance.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
If only there were a simple alliterative mantra espousing.....
This is Not a valid justification for making your primary storage Or your backup less portable/flexible, less durable and more likely to fail.
I would say if your junk is soldered to the board, then having a single backup is not adequate --- You now need 1 more backup set to be kept maintained than you should have needed otherwise, because you've eliminated a whole class of recovery solutions that have very high success rates for the vast majority of real-world incidents.
And what, exactly is the point of being rude and obnoxious? Oh. I get it. You are technically superior to most all humans on the planet. How's that working out from your mother's basement?
Oh and the AC post is because I am too lazy to log into this browser. It's me, persicom, replying to you.
...or, we could read the articles and find that the bans and proposed expanded bans are only from specific airports from terrorist laden locations. It's a good thing to have the extra security from these locations while still managing to avoid inconveniencing everyone else. Let's face it, when you travel to and from these locations you are taking on extra risk. When the governments of these other countries root out and deal with their security problems, I'm sure these measures will no longer be necessary.
All is as it should be, basically.
While technically true, there is enough GPS signal penatrating into the plane cabin to get a lock. It usually takes a while, but it does work. Fun fact: The GPS receiver works even if the phone is in "airplane mode".
I'm confused. Is it really only the fear of explosives that airlines are worried about or the fact that on several occasions, it has been proven that someone with a laptop can hack into the airplane's network from their seat on the plane?
Trans-oceanic flights aren't any roomier. It's cattle class all the way. I'm so glad I don't travel for work anymore.
some karma... and kinda lukewarm about it.
> - Separate your hard drive from your laptop and take the hard drive as carry on. This will be easier if it's an SSD drive.
Why is it easier if the drive is an SSD?
some karma... and kinda lukewarm about it.
Single storage device soldered to a board? The only person who could possibly have come up with that idea is a marketing arsehole who calculated that the number of tech-savvy users they'd lose would be less than the profit from tech-non-savvy users who brought multiple devices. Now ... where does that sound like? Smells like Apple to me. AmIrite? (I honestly don't know, because I've not considered getting an Apple device since I got rid of my Mac after several years - didn't like the user interface.)
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
Oscurantism is winning, but none of you would go help understand those decision makers the error of their ways, would you? Tablets are not enough, but a tablet can also hide a potent enough explosive to make a hole in an airplane and that is it. Wouldnt it be easier to forbid Arabs from taking airplanes not their own? This ban is a personal affront in fact.