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Green Party Leaders Don't Want Windows In Munich (techrepublic.com)
Reader sqorbit writes: Munich spent a lot of time (9 years) and a lot of money in shifting some 15,000 staff to a Linux-based OS. The plan now is to move to Windows 10 by 2021. Munich's Green Party is citing the WannaCry virus as a valid reason not to switch to Windows. "As with many of the biggest attacks, the computers that were mainly hit were running the Windows operating system," the Green Party said in a statement.
Sheesh, are they also anti-skylight?
But arguing wanna cry is your reason makes me wanna cry. Updated versions of windows weren't susceptible to the worm. This seems like a moot point or at least one where they're stretching the truth to make one.
I'm surprised they need windows this badly myself especially after making the switch. My guess is there are a few bureaucrats who can't understand how to use open office or think it's "too difficult" to send/receive attachments. Thus Linux is "no good" and Windows is a "necessity."
They were already planning on switching back to windows because something wasn't working with linux/open source. They should try to address that problem instead and make a case for staying with linux instead of fear mongering.
did you forget to take your meds?
I switched to CentOS (with Mate) on the desktop several years ago. I have windows on dual boot. I haven't booted into Windows for nearly year. I don't miss windows for anything. When I upgraded from CentOS 6 to CentOS 7 it literally only took me about 2 hours to upgrade and install my toolchain and have backups working. With Windows this would have taken an entire day. I smirk at my associates who worry about Ransomware or just cruft slowing chocking their desktops/laptops.
However my use case may be different than others.
So how often do you receive these "official documents" that are "locked" to the degree that only MS Word can open them?
Anti-GMO people are roughly-equivalent to anti-vaxxers, but with a different set of shit they don't understand at all yet about which formed powerful opinions.
Support my political activism on Patreon.
Wannacry isn't a valid reason to abandon Windows. Security by removing one single attack vector isn't security.
How about instead staffing a dedicated IT security department and actually doing security properly?
cause that is how you leak government data. windows 10. lol.
Crap, I thought for sure 2021 was going to be the Year of Linux Desktop! they spent 8 years preparing for it to!
switching back to MS_Windows is only setting yourself up as a target for attack, stick with Linux, even with Linux if one distro is targeted it would be super easy to switch distros and still install the same applications built to run on another distro of Linux that is not targeted, so with Linux you have that strength too
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
If the green party is anything like similar parties here in Spain you'd expect them to be very nitpicky about what they use and to care about freedoms and such.
So I've been really disappointed that the reasons they give to stay in Linux is "WannaCry", i.e. Virus and the like.
I'd hope such a party would know and care about Windows 10's telemetry, publicity and user tracking. If even they don't know or care means that 99'9% of people don't and so Microsoft has no reason to change and then probably Windows will get worse and worse.
It's a pity because i quite liked Windows until 7 and I'm unlikely to ever be able to get completely away from it.
Basically, they're finding there's a lag between new hardware being released and the OS getting updates to support it, and it's a huge PIA for support staff.
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
This is just an example of non-technical management trying to make a technical decision. It always ends up costing the company or in this case the taxpayer far more money and provides far less service than promised.
When German Green party says something then it is usually exactly the opposite of one should do if one were to use reason and facts. That is the sorry state of affairs in Germany these days. It means that this recommendation should be looked at carefully before deployment.
If this was sarcastic, kudos. If you were trying to make a coherent argument, then this would pretty much illustrate bluefoxlucid's point.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
I never agree w/ the Green Party (anywhere), but on this one, finally they've found something I can agree w/ them on. Since Munich has already spent a ton of cash converting to their own Linux distro, it would be a sheer waste of person-hours to go back to Windows. Since they have something that is totally in their control
As far as the documents go, would it be very difficult for Microsoft to do a Linux version of Office 365 (they could monetize it that way) client, given that they already have a version for Android? I know, Android has that UI that almost totally masks the Linux underpinnings, but Microsoft could do a client for Linux (and BSD) that would run Office 365, and run the OS off Azure. That way, they can have a steady stream of cash, instead of being caught up in trying to forcibly upgrade people's OSs.
I myself successfully use this TrueOS computer for most of my computing, which is sending emails & browsing the internet. I do have a separate Windows laptop, which I use if I need to edit any Word documents, or if I need to play my Steam games. Once I can get the latter on this TrueOS box, I'll hardly need even that.
Are there no FrameMaker or Illustrator equivalents in Linux?
Or is there a case of technical personnel ignoring user needs, for example exchanging files with people outside the organization or using offsite computers with only windows and office for a presentation, and not having formatting change?
I've been to meetings (US National Science Foundation) where the protocol for speakers was to submit their powerpoint file ahead of the meeting and select it on the windows box with msoffice at the podium when they go on stage.
It's also a case where most of the cost savings are on the back end and haven't been realized yet. The transition to Linux was done carefully enough that it didn't start saving them money right away. Now that it's in place, they stand to save a fortune on the next upgrade cycle. So the time for bribes is now or never. Either they pay some sweetheart rate to go back to Windows now (while they're still used to costly upgrades every few years), or they never pay for upgrades again - and really start reaping the cost benefits of having switched.
Of course, they'll have to go back to paying normal rates for every subsequent upgrade cycle - but if they Act Now!!!, they'll never have gotten used to not paying for software. So if the Greens are stretching the point somewhat (after all, it is true that Windows remains the big target - and even if wanna cry has been fixed, there will be other exploits), they're only having to do it because the cost-savings argument has been muddied.
Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
LibreOffice can edit pdfs on any common platform.
aaaaaaa
She's saying there are fewer people tinkering with desktop Linux these days so it is harder to find people to maintain and update their customized distribution. That the new generation of techies are much more interested in mobile than desktop.
Okay, if one is in the medical profession and you are bound by proprietary drivers (probably outdated), or in some other professional with similar hardware lockins (Construction, Automobile/Farming equipment Computer diagnostics/calibration), or POSSIBLY hearing aid equipment interfaces/drivers (again outdated typically), you don't need MS Windows (feel free to add professional category subject to hardware lock-in). 95% of all tools are web based via Intranet or Internet. Linux does all the word processing, email, messaging, web surfing and even video chat options you need. LibreOffice's only serious weakness is on complex tables. But since MS and Google are pushing web based subscription, that may not even matter a lot unless you work with confidential data requiring local access only use + complex excel tables. I've been seeing/helping people convert to Mint Linux and Debian for years with no complaints. Gamers may complain about not having the full selection of games, but in government that is not a positive factor I think. Also, Windows 10 is NOT immune to WannaCry. you can patch it, but, given MS's recent history with buggy (or misleading) patches you can't really rely on it. Plus you can be sure others are adapting it to new "patched" Windows 10 anyway. Also will Munich get a "special" version of Windows 10 like China did to prevent government secrets going to the USA? (And the government agencies within) https://thenextweb.com/microso... I think most non-USA governments, as well as business/agencies that have confidential information in non-USA location will have to make a hard choice to avoid violating their basic oaths/ethics requirements.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge" - Einstein
They are using 3 versions of their local image (LiMux 5.x, 4.1, 4.0) alongside with Windows 7, Xp and ...windows 2000. What could possibly go wrong ?
Furthermore when you know there is not one IT department but... 22 and that
"a lot of work that's not done in the central IT but in the distributed IT,"
Here are some answers. They may not be stellar ones, but they are factors.
1. Employee Hiring: Everyone knows windows, most don't know Linux. Sure using Linux for work isn't that big of a deal, but it is just one more thing to train on.
2. Third party software: Most organizations thinking buy not build is the solution. Most of the software that you can buy is for windows.
3. Compatibility: 99% compatible means 3 days a year there is a problem.
4. Merging with other locations: Sure you may be on Linux but chances are the organization that you are merging with isn't
5. Big Vendor relationship: If you are a big enough organization. Your relationship with Microsoft is far more dynamic than here is the CD and install it. Microsoft will often work with you to make sure their product will work with your environment.
6. Hardware: Oh that new set of laptops has an incompatible network chip. And there is no Linux driver. You could make sure you get the linux approved system, but either it is out of date, or more expensive, just because that one necessary compatibility component.
7. Too many exceptions: If you are a Linux shop, you normally need a few windows boxes for those exceptions where you need it. There just may be too many people who need Windows as an exception.
8. Too configurable: Linux is often too configurable for its own good, deploying it in an organization will often get the organizations group think settings. Often being bad for everyone. Windows is you get what you get, and followed "Best Practices" which bosses think they like.
9. Silly names: Much of linux software has silly fun and unprofessional names. It just may not fit in the organizations culture.
10. That one problem that could had been easy in windows: When you use the exception vs what is common. You are under the gun to make sure everything is perfect. That one problem could get you. "No one got fired for choosing IBM" problem. You can buy a POS, but just as long as you are suffering with everyone else you are fine.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
They will get them in just in time to pay for long term support contracts!
Operating Systems Mainstream Support Ends Extended Support Ends
Windows 101 October 13, 2020 October 14, 2025
http://www.allyncs.com/docs/lifecyclesupport.html
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
rather ignorant statement to make when renewable energy now supplying over a third the electrical energy there. only 14% now is from nuclear.
As far as the documents go, would it be very difficult for Microsoft to do a Linux version of Office 365 (they could monetize it that way) client, given that they already have a version for Android? I know, Android has that UI that almost totally masks the Linux underpinnings, but Microsoft could do a client for Linux (and BSD) that would run Office 365, and run the OS off Azure. That way, they can have a steady stream of cash, instead of being caught up in trying to forcibly upgrade people's OSs.
If Microsoft were to do that then they would lose one of the things that chains people to their operating system; so it would not be a commercially sensible thing to do. The biggest problem is not the word processor (just specify .ODF - the city is large enough to do that), but integration with Microsoft Exchange - especially group-ware (calendaring).
GMO can spread random genes.
Not all GMOs are inter-species. Sometimes they simply engineer a trait that they want. This can be done by waiting for nature to make a mutation, or by bombarding plants with radiation to force mutations. GMOs can be just a faster way to get there. You are painting with too broad a brush. If you are worried about interspecies gene splicing, then talk about that. It's like saying that you don't like the internal combustion engine because you have something against gasoline.
I don't think we need that noise while we don't even understand one tenth of what happens in nature.
If we used such caution in every human enterprise, we progress very slowly. International trade and human settlement has done far more to change ecosystems than any GMO crop. Hell, traditional agriculture has literally changed the face of the planet. Corn (maize) is not native to anywhere and it's grown everywhere. Wheat is from the middle east and is grown everywhere. Sugar cane is from Asia and is grown everywhere. Yucca is a South American crop that is grown in Asia and Africa. Singling out GMOs is just bizarre.
GMO are also for monoculture or monoculture and roundup etc. so we can also ban them just for that : to say fuck you.
This makes no sense at all. There is no logic here. Any seed that Monsanto and the other big seed makers market will be a "monoculture" of sorts. This has nothing to do with how they were bred or developed. Maybe you have a problem with food crops being sprayed with Roundup? Fine - ban that... Round Up Ready is just a subset of GMOs in general, and not all Round Up Ready crops are food crops (e.g. cotton).
We somehow feed people without GMO anyway,
No, people are starving right now. And as countries develop, people consume even more, which will put further strain on limited land and resources.
It is easy to show the anti-vaxxers are full of shit and that vaccinations have huge benefits
Agreed!
GMO benefits? I don't know.
Farmers do, and that's why they buy them even though use of GMOs often comes with onerous restrictions. If GMOs were not worthwhile, they wouldn't last long on the market, which is full of alternatives.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
1) we are talking about 15000 computers... So the distribution maintenance cost would have to be 15000 times greater than windows upgrade licences costs... ...) ...) and were not directly related to the actual switch
2) most of the development is done by Linux/Opensource community...
3) Using MS Windows will require more frequent hardware upgrades as the requirements keep increasing. Linux' requirements are usually more stable and grow slower.
4) training costs have been spent to have team learn the new environment. Since then, both Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office tools have changed which would require to spend the training costs again
5) with the scripting/remote control/remote admin features of Linux, maintaining a big number of servers and workstations require less people than maintaining the same number of Windows servers and workstations.
6) a non negligible part of the costs of the switch would have to be spent again (converting documents, creating new templates,
7) part of the costs and time of the switch were related to the situation before the switch with an highly heterogenous computer park (different versions of OS, of installed packages, of configurations,
8) What Microsoft is looking for is locking the documents in it's cloud with use through it's SaaS offering... I'd say it's enough to be a no go
1) Many people stuck to older Windows/Office versions. MS Windows 7 is still very popular for example. ... Hardware compatibility of Linux is better and better. When I installed my laptop, Windows required many 3rd party drivers that I had to download. Linux recognized all the hardware (including webcam) without any additionnal drivers. ...) from the start, it don't help much.
2) Most of the software needed do already exists under Linux... We are talking about the city of munich, most of the work is done on Office tools where you've LibreOffice/Apache OpenOffice for example
3) Windows and compatibility is a joke... Unsupported (older) hardware, older application which stop running,
4) It's a City administration, not a "company" that could merge with another.
5) If there are more issues (vulnerabilities, bugs,
6) when is the last time that you installed a decent linux distribution on a laptop ?
7) City administration mostly need an Office suite... not many exception...
8) The status BEFORE the linux migration was a very strong fragmentation while staying in the MS Windows world... Here, the IT department has pushed the same configuration to everyone
9) Microsoft PowerPoint ??? Microsoft Excel ??? Microsoft Access ??? Microsoft Outlook ??? aren't these silly names ??? The names are not related in any way to the task done... In that regard, LibreOffice Calc is less silly than Microsoft Excel, LibreOffice Base than Microsoft Access...
Most of your points were missing the point... and are the usual Microsoft bullshit... Fact is that more and more administration will eventually switch to linux and that Microsoft is trying to bribe them to avoid that... It's Microsoft's biggest Nightmare as if administrations switch successfully, it'll show the route for companies and it'd be the end of it's monopoly... He'd have to start playing nice with other OS, to stop it's underhanded tactics and the fact that it's an inferior and more expensive choice will become more and more obvious.
You can not reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into. You might just as well argue with the pope about the existence of god. You'll probably have about the same chances of success.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
Is there even a good suite of FOSS products that does that? I mean LibreOffice is in most cases an adequate replacement for MS Office but what about integrating it with and email and calendar (meeting/booking/etc) with push notifications solution?
Very interesting points. IMO, those are still weak compared to :
But you have to switch to linux to see that, and your point 10. is very true : people will only see the downsides ... until they switch back to windows.
The assumption that "everyone knows Windows" is laughable.
He didn't mean literally 'everyone', but the vast majority, i.e. >90% of computer users. Even most of us who use macOS or Linux primarily still know Windows.
But Microsoft has already done that w/ both iOS and Android, and IIRC, those applications even exist on OS X. So it wouldn't be a first of anything, and they'd still have a steady income stream of people paying them for an annual Office 365 subscription.
Also, is Exchange a part of what Munich was on? B'cos if that was, they'd never have gotten off Windows in the first place. For group work, there are plenty of Android utilities that would work - all of it doesn't have to be on the desktop, and besides, if they used something like gmail for their email, they could just as easily use Google calendar for coordinating work.
From what I recall, Munix - the distro that Munich created - is a Debian offshoot. Since the security is coming from upstream, what's to prevent them from just depending on debian for their security updates? And if they want more than that, they could have a group of admins to port OpenBSD security utilities to their OS.
And why would newer features matter? It's a work environment: they don't have to suddenly add support for, say, snapchat in the OS. Just create an OS, have a secure and stable base, and have everyone work off from that.
Including diagrams? Which one uses Illustrator for?
Here are some answers. They may not be stellar ones, but they are factors.
1. Employee Hiring: Everyone knows windows, most don't know Linux. Sure using Linux for work isn't that big of a deal, but it is just one more thing to train on.
2. Third party software: Most organizations thinking buy not build is the solution. Most of the software that you can buy is for windows.
3. Compatibility: 99% compatible means 3 days a year there is a problem.
4. Merging with other locations: Sure you may be on Linux but chances are the organization that you are merging with isn't
5. Big Vendor relationship: If you are a big enough organization. Your relationship with Microsoft is far more dynamic than here is the CD and install it. Microsoft will often work with you to make sure their product will work with your environment.
6. Hardware: Oh that new set of laptops has an incompatible network chip. And there is no Linux driver. You could make sure you get the linux approved system, but either it is out of date, or more expensive, just because that one necessary compatibility component.
7. Too many exceptions: If you are a Linux shop, you normally need a few windows boxes for those exceptions where you need it. There just may be too many people who need Windows as an exception.
8. Too configurable: Linux is often too configurable for its own good, deploying it in an organization will often get the organizations group think settings. Often being bad for everyone. Windows is you get what you get, and followed "Best Practices" which bosses think they like.
9. Silly names: Much of linux software has silly fun and unprofessional names. It just may not fit in the organizations culture.
10. That one problem that could had been easy in windows: When you use the exception vs what is common. You are under the gun to make sure everything is perfect. That one problem could get you. "No one got fired for choosing IBM" problem. You can buy a POS, but just as long as you are suffering with everyone else you are fine.
Will it take weeks or days or hours to learn linux. All the user needs is a small crib sheet at his side. Or with a 4 minute youtube tutorial.
And in the colleges and Universities and highschools, they already have used Linux
Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada