A Colorado Group Wants To Ban Smartphones For Kids (apnews.com)

An anonymous reader quotes the AP: Colorado officials have cleared the language of a proposed ballot measure that would establish the nation's first legal limits on buying smartphones for children. Backers of the move to forbid the sale of smartphones to children younger than 13 would now need about 300,000 voter signatures for the proposal to make the 2018 ballot. The ban would require cellphone retailers to ask customers about the age of the primary user of a smartphone and submit monthly reports to the Colorado Department of Revenue on adhering to the requirement. Retailers who sell a phone for use by a youngster could be fined $500, after a warning.
A Denver-area dad is leading the campaign -- a board certified anesthesiologist who says children change when they get a cellphone. "They go from being outgoing, energetic, interested in the world and happy, to reclusive. They want to spend all their time in their room. They lose interest in outside activities."

Comments

easy to clip this on to a bill banning burner phon

[Joe_Dragon]

easy to clip this on to a bill banning burner phones then to just go for a age ban.

not a government issue

[Anonymous Coward]

sounds like the guy who came up with this should grow some balls and put his foot down and say no to his kids instead of relying on the government to make a law so he can have an excuse

Re:not a government issue

[ShanghaiBill]

It's going to be our problem when there is a generation of socially maladjusted children.

Can you cite any actual evidence that phones make kids socially maladjusted?

Re: not a government issue

[nachtelfjeiu]

That's exactly the question: has it been researched and if not, how dare he abuse his title as an MD to put this point forward? I, for one, think that a child growing up today may risk getting socially isolated without a cell phone. It's the world we live in. Deal with it and teach your kids to.

Re: not a government issue

[rpresser]

Firsthand experience as a parent is good enough to express an opinion and try to convince other people.

Legislation should be based on science, for fucks sake.

Re:not a government issue

[duke_cheetah2003]

sounds like the guy who came up with this should grow some balls and put his foot down and say no to his kids instead of relying on the government to make a law so he can have an excuse

This. I'm not for legislating parenting techniques. If smartphones are causing kids to become reclusive, then educate the public about it. No need for a ban. Just teach parents that smartphone use for children needs to be monitored and limited. I personally believe it should be limited like any other electronic entertainment, like television, video games, and computers. But a law? No.

Re:not a government issue

[spiritplumber]

If everyone is "socially maladjusted", then it's society that has evolved in a certain direction, like it or not.

Re:not a government issue

[MangoCats]

I personally believe it should be limited like any other electronic entertainment, like television, video games, and computers. But a law? No.

Gambling, prostitution, (paper) porn, alcohol, and any number of other "strongly motivating" forces in this world have been legally restricted "for the good of the nation." There is a significant segment of the population that simply can't deal with easy access to things that provide them a strong dopamine reward. Do cell phones fit this category? For some, yes.

Do we need a law? No more than we need laws for gambling, prostitution, cocaine, heroin, etc. Probably more mature and effective to provide education, counseling and easy access treatment programs, but that doesn't seem to be the American way.

Re:not a government issue

[drinkypoo]

I think a law isn't a workable idea at all, but I suspect part of the reason he wants a law is to mitigate the side effects of telling your kid "no" while many other kids get "yes" and now your kid is on the outside, not sharing in electronic communication.

The problem is that this guy is, well... he's a piece of shit. We know he's a piece of shit because his answer to "this is hard" is "make a law that affects everyone and will cost money and will be abused". You know what the solution is to parents who don't want to be perceived as the bad guys, so they won't parent unless there's a law to back them up? It's for them to grow some fucking courage, because raising children is not a job for cowards who need other people to do their job for them.

If you want your kids to read, read to your kids. If you want your kids to pray, pray with your kids. If you want your kids not to use cellphones, well, you're going to have to do some parenting.

I never got anything by throwing a tantrum in a public place as a tiny child, so when I became an older child whose tantrums actually could bother other people... I didn't throw them. Perhaps parents should do some fucking parenting. Mine didn't, and I've struggled with the results my whole life. There's no substitute for actual parenting, no matter how many laws you pass.

When my dad was 12, he lived in a rural community in the Ozarks and he saved money and bought a .22 caliber rifle from a neighbor. And he was allowed to go pretty much wherever he wanted with that rifle, he says he mostly used it to shoot turtles and water moccasins when tending to his trout lines (the turtles wrecked his trout lines, the snakes were dangerous pests and may have had some kind of bounty). To contemporary urban sensibilities it sounds crazier to let your 12 year old kid run around with a rifle and totally sane to give them a smart phone.

In a contemporary urban environment, that is crazier. A .22 can kill someone two miles away.

Re:not a government issue

[swb]

I think your oversell the power of parenting in social situations. I can't run my son's social life for him in school, and if some large plurality of kids have smartphones and now he's excluded from a lot of social activity because he literally can't participate in it, now I have to deal with the fallout at home.

It's been manageable thusfar, but the writing is on the wall. We already hear complaints about not being able to spend time with other kids because activities are arranged via text or snapchat or whatever. I think up to now, it's largely been a positive because he's not had a chance to be an impulsive 12 year old via electronic communication, but eventually I also don't want my kid to feel like he has no social connections, either.

Parents make a million and one mistakes parenting. If it was easy and if we all had ideal role models (ie, our own parents), then everyone would be perfect. But it's not easy, every kid is different and our role models are as flawed as we are.

The guy's law is entirely non-workable for so many reasons, but I at least see where he's coming from.

Re:easy to clip this on to a bill banning burner p

[ShanghaiBill]

Is there any actual evidence that phones are bad for kids?

My kids got phones when they were 8. We can find them if they get lost, it makes it easy to coordinate pickups. It gives us more freedom to let them go and do what they want, since they can call if they get in situation they can't handle. In fact, we don't let them leave home without their phones. I don't see the downside. I don't think I need an anesthesiologist to tell me how to raise my kids.

Re:easy to clip this on to a bill banning burner p

[AHuxley]

Was a Low-Tech Parent (Sept. 10, 2014) https://www.nytimes.com/2014/0...

Amazingly...

[locater16]

Perhaps kids still are outgoing, energetic, and interested in the world. Just through the portal of their phone, through which they can learn about literally anything and come into contact with billions of people around the planet. As opposed to just being able to learn about things around them and meet only people nearby.

Re:Amazingly...

[thegarbz]

Or perhaps kids all turn into social recluses at some point during their cycle and the guy just happened to have bought his kid a smartphone when that happened.

I remember spending lots of my time in my room, reading books, listening to music, making music. I didn't have a smartphone growing up.

Re:Amazingly...

[Kokuyo]

How about this: Perhaps it's a matter of finally having found like-minded people who they feel understand their issues much better than they feel the people in their immediate surroundings do.

I remember how liberating it was when I found IRC back then. Finally I had found people sharing my interests instead of people at best being completely bored by them.

Sure, to my parents it looked like I was wasting my time in front of a screen but personality-wise I felt better than I had in years.

Perhaps this is just the typical "Is it true? Am I out of touch? No! It's the kids who are wrong!"

So...

[grasshoppa]

...this presumably highly intelligent anesthesiologist discovered "teenagers".

Nanny State

[yorgasor]

Just what we need, more of the government telling us how to raise our kids. I personally haven't given my kids smartphones until they were 15. But I can certainly see circumstances other people might have in giving their kids smartphones and everyone's circumstances are different. Just because it may be a bad idea in general, doesn't mean it's a bad for everyone. Keep the decision making in the hands of those who know the kids and their circumstances best.

Re:Nanny State

[Zemran]

My son had a PC in his room when he was about 9. In retrospect I know think that was too early and I do not think it was a great idea. I feel much the same about smart phones but do I think we should have legislation? HELL NO. I think there should be more rational advice and people should think more about human interaction with their children but this is not something to waste police time over. We need less police interaction. Children should never be involved with the law over something so trivial.

Re: Nanny State

[Opportunist]

Yes, I would probably be way further along today if I had had the internet instead of just a stack of books and whatever the library had to offer.

I would probably also have a way more "interesting" youth. And very likely not the job I have today, since having a police record kinda disqualifies you for it. ;)

Great Idea

[Madalik]

You ever see a kid with books, they spend their time reading instead of playing outside and socializing. We should ban children from reading so we can have better adjusted children.

Re:Great Idea

[Anonymous Coward]

I know you're being sarcastic, but there was quite an outcry about novels when they first came out. It was time better spent learning a skill or trade. All those classic pieces of literature foisted on our youth by English teachers around the country were once considered worthless distractions. In fact a significant portion of great works of literature were hated in their day.

The problem is, take kids away from their phones and then in 10 years watch all the bellyaching that these young adults don't know how to do 21st century research or are technically inept. You know, same as how putting computers in bedrooms was a huge mistake mistake for my generation and now suddenly our young adults can't code and are inept with the single most important tool for their careers.

Another would-be dictator

[Dog-Cow]

I have no plans to give my daughter, or any future children of mine, a smartphone. Ever*. I already limit iPad time (it's mine, not hers), because I want her to remain interested in other things. But, I don't need any government, or even other parents, telling me how to raise my children.

* my position is that when she can afford it, she can buy it. She's not banned from having one; she's just not going to get it from me.

Re:Another would-be dictator

[Dog-Cow]

If only I had pocket change for her to steal! But really. She's 5.

Re:easy to clip this on to a bill banning burner p

[Beau1080p]

The thinking is that technology interferes with creativity and young minds learn best through movement, hands-on tasks, and human-to-human interaction. Take for instance Waldorf schools. Students at these schools are gaining math, patterning, and problem-solving skills by knitting socks. They aren’t exposed to fractions through a computer program. Instead they learn about halves and quarters by cutting up food. Sounds a bit like summer camp? Well, yes, but parents in Los Altos and at over 150 similar schools across the country say the Waldorf method works and they’re sending their kids to top colleges, from Oberlin to Berkeley. That's my five-and-one-half-cents!

Dunno about a law..

[Rick Schumann]

..but I think smartphones aren't all that great anyway. When some people get so wrapped up in whatever they're looking at on their smartphone that they literally bump into you walking down the street (or into a stationary object, or walk out into traffic, etc), then you have to wonder if they're being misused. Then there's the complete lack of security; any given smartphone, regardless of manufacturer, could be infected with malware, and the owner of the phone might never know about it, even if they never went to any risky URLs, never opened a suspicious email, and never clicked a dubious link. Then there's the fact that your smartphone might have malware baked right into the firmware from the factory. Meanwhile you're paying a premium every month just to have it connected to your wireless companys' network. Think about it: we live in a world where there are people right now who'd rather text each other than talk, even if they're in the same room. Does that seem right? It's easy for someone to say "well, it's a communication tool, I use it to stay in touch with people, and I can research things on the internet, and I can pull up a map to find where I need to go", but when people have their eyes glued to it practically every waking moment? Despite being told not to people are using their smartphones in theatres, and despite hefty fines and risk of being killed in an accident, people are constantly screwing around with their phones while they're driving. Doesn't it really sound like this 'useful' communications tool is being heavily abused to the point where it's more of a nuisance than it is a tool? Let's not even get started on the stories about people who have had thousands (and TENS of thousands) of dollars charged to them because their kids bought things in games or online on their phones..

I don't have a smartphone. I can't justify the expense of the hardware or the monthly connectivity cost, and I especially can't justify carrying around something so incapable of being secured properly against intrusion and against malware infection. Nor do I care to carry around an electronic leash that allows anyone with access to know precisely where I am and perhaps even listen in on what I'm doing or turn on the camera and see what I'm doing. The so-called 'benefits' of the connectivity and processing capabilities are just not anywhere near sufficient to mitigate all the expense and all the problems and deficiencies associated with it. Now we find that perhaps the technology itself, because of how it's misused, overused, and abused, is potentially destructive to kids. Really makes me wonder what it is we've allowed to be done to us.

Re:Dunno about a law..

[duke_cheetah2003]

I disagree with this wholeheartedly. Smartphones are fantastic devices, a nearly full featured PC in your pocket? You gotta be insane so say these things are not one of man's greatest inventions.

Where we do agree is the use of them. If you have look at your cell phone every 5 minutes, there's a problem. It's not really the technology, it's the user. Supply this same person any addictive substance that's illegal, and I'm pretty sure you're going to have a drug addict in very little time.

Me personally, I find my pocket computer makes my life a lot easier. It can amuse me while I'm on the shitter. It's absolutely invaluable when travelling. The maps, GPS and route planning alone make it wonderful. And if you break down, well, you can call for help. I really could go on and on about how nifty these devices are, just as you've gone on and on about how they're used inappropriately and irresponsibly. Like many of our other great inventions, it is both good and evil simultaneously, depending on the human using it.

Re:Dunno about a law..

[Rick Schumann]

Guns don't kill people, people kill people

That's essentially the point you're making, and make no mistake about it: I actually agree with you. The technology itself is not 'evil' or even 'bad' or 'wrong', but I do feel it's being misused and abused by too many people, and corporations are leveraging the technology in ways that is encouraging people to abuse the technology; smartphones are being an enabler of too many people's bad habits and tendencies. That's where the problem is, and just like the texting-while-driving problem, it seems that nothing and nobody is making any headway into remedying that situation.

13 year olds with jobs and cars?

[TheOuterLinux]

I guess 13 year olds magically have money and cars now to go to the store and buy smart phones. Oh wait, they don't. If you can't tell them no, then you tell them hell no. You're not their friend, you're their parent. Now regarding the burner phone slipping into a Bill idea mentioned, that's an actual possibility when retailers have to ask who you're buying the phone for. They make you show a drivers license for phones that have no contracts like Straighttalk, and that eliminates the point of the phone for some people. Your name is now associated with the device. Though, this may encourage more "dumb" phones in the market which will ironically be a much better burner phone.

Re:This is a good idea

[rpresser]

It's an approachable idea that I would have no problem with individual parents implementing for their children.

I don't even mind if indviduals try to convince other individuals it's the right thing to do.

LEGISLATION should be based on fucking SCIENCE, not opinions. Get your fucking hands off the people's rights unless you can prove you're right.

I Don't See That As Going Anywhere

[Greyfox]

IIRC they beefed up the requirements for a constitutional amendment last year, and I'd be surprised if that gets enough signatures to get on the ballot, much less get approved by the voters. This sort of busybody legislation traditionally doesn't go anywhere and this story wouldn't be news until it at least ends up on the ballot, except that it's clickbaity enough to get a lot of clicks.

Re:easy to clip this on to a bill banning burner p

[Zemran]

Of course there is plenty of evidence. The same evidence that proved that having computers in their bedrooms was destroying their future. Like all the crap we get fed it is always based on a few anecdotal cases that we are expected to believe are automatically the rule in every case.

Re:Anesthesiologist != pediatrician/psychologist

[Khyber]

Sounds like a good prescription to me!

Re:easy to clip this on to a bill banning burner p

[Gravis Zero]

Is there any actual evidence that phones are bad for kids?

They aren't trying to ban cellular telephones for kids, they are trying to ban smartphones for kids. The important difference here is that one is a telephonic communications device and one is a small computer. The reason this matters is because it's the applications that engineered to maximize user interaction using neuroscience. This can lead to very real addictions regardless of age in a similar fashion to gambling addiction. Are there adults that are addicted to their smartphones? Most definitely.

I'm not arguing in favor of the ban, I'm just answering your question.

Re:easy to clip this on to a bill banning burner p

[ziggystarsky]

I'm totally not pro computer/smartphone for kids. But I doubt that Waldorf schools are much better than ordinary schools (at least here in Germany). If you draw such a conclusion, you must control for other differences, e.g., having wealthier parents and probably other stuff.

Re: easy to clip this on to a bill banning burner

[Anonymous Coward]

Read the post again. That the kids there turn out great does not establish causality. You must account for confounding factors (a proper controlled study).

Re:easy to clip this on to a bill banning burner p

[arglebargle_xiv]

"They go from being outgoing, energetic, interested in the world and happy, to reclusive. They want to spend all their time in their room. They lose interest in outside activities."

Of course there's evidence of this, it just changes every couple of years. Previous candidates: Heavy metal, Dungeons and Dragons, [...] stamp collecting, trading cards, [...] Morris Dancing, [...] cave painting [...] banging rocks together. I've left out a few hundred of them just to save space.

Re: easy to clip this on to a bill banning burner

[Anonymous Coward]

Every kid pre cell phones had the freedom to go where they wanted and do what they want. My mom used to tell me to be back when the street lights came on and off I went on my bike. No cell phone. You need to stop being a helicopter parent and let your children be children.

Sounds like me at 13

[TimothyHollins]

"They go from being outgoing, energetic, interested in the world and happy, to reclusive. They want to spend all their time in their room. They lose interest in outside activities."

Sure they haven't just discovered porn?

Re:easy to clip this on to a bill banning burner p

[MangoCats]

Hey, we elected a senile spray-tan with a toupee (or at least a very convincing imitation of one), why not vote for some more "common sense" conservatism?

The same pearls were being clutched in 1955

[Applehu Akbar]

'Those darned teenagers! Spending hour after hour on the phone!

Re:The same pearls were being clutched in 1955

[geekmux]

'Those darned teenagers! Spending hour after hour on the phone!

What happens to human interaction when a virtual conversation with a bot is determined to be better than any real one?

What happens to companionship and procreation when machines and virtual realities can pleasure us better than a human alternative, and without the risk of dying prematurely from a world running rampant with STDs?

What happens to human employment and education when automation and AI become good enough to destroy it?

What happens to critical thinking and educating humans when the concept of employment and monetary reward is no longer viable?

As you dismiss these concepts, are you certain this technology is still "waaaay far away", or merely a couple of decades? 20 years ago you were still using a modem to dial

up to the internet. Compare that to what you can do today, from a wireless smartphone.

The next iterations of "advancement" are quite a bit different, and is not something we are readily prepared for, so perhaps you can stop clutching your pearls now. Ancient analogies likely won't apply.

A clarification on the real impact.

[geekmux]

"humans change when they get a cellphone. "They go from being outgoing, energetic, interested in the world and happy, to reclusive. They want to spend all their time in their room. They lose interest in outside activities."

Not sure why in the hell we're being rather ignorant as to the real impact of these devices, as the adult is reduced to emulating ancient cavemen, communicating with emojis scribbled on a (digital) wall in a society that champions reclusive Netflix binge sessions.

And to clarify, kids are interested in a world; it just happens to be a digital one. They become social media addicts striving to be the greatest narcissist in the universe, broadcasting their every move to the entire planet. "Outside activities" are not what is rewarded in this world anymore. How many friends, clicks, and likes you can amass every day is what is rewarded. Parents, if you're wondering where they got this from or how to curb it, remember that kids learn from their environment.

Re:easy to clip this on to a bill banning burner p

[Dorianny]

Not having any children I don't have any input on the best method to educate them but it sounds a lot like the best programming language wars. Whatever the merits or pitfalls of a particular language (or method) ultimately what differentiates a good coder vs a bad one, is not their choice of programing language but rather the time and effort the programer dedicated to the mastery of their skills

Re: easy to clip this on to a bill banning burner

[that this is not und]

You are training your kids to never be without their NSA tracking device.

Do you actually work for the NSA or are you a volunteer trainer for them?

Nanny state stupidity

[XSportSeeker]

When will people stop trying to pass laws to force their beliefs into others and stop trying to rely on the government to spread some sort of religious (based on belief) message?

I mean, really, how people can be this stupid? As far as I know, being a "board certified anesthesiologist" does not qualify you to pass laws based on whatever crap you believe without any proof. And even if he had any proof, trying to pass a law would not be the way to go - this is the competence of regulatory bodies. The fact that he's not going through proper procedures already shows how biased the whole thing is.

This is no different than the crap about violent games, TV, rock music, or that damn subversive literature that is destroying our kids.
And in the end, it's just a fucking waste of time. Like any retailer would ever submit a report that automagically forces them to pay a $500 fine. Most kids will get their parents' old smartphones and tablets anyways, and if any parent wanted to buy a smartphone or tablet for their kids they'd just purchase one for themselves and then hand it over. Fucking waste of time and energy. This is literally the will someone please think of the children crap.

Re:easy to clip this on to a bill banning burner p

[TheCastro1689]

But the 50s car kids still appeared outgoing, energetic, etc. We've known for a while that social media depresses people, so that's probably what is going on with smartphone usage.

Just like alcohol and driving

[holophrastic]

Here's hoping this takes the same path as light drinking before driving. Now it's the childred; soon it'll be the adults too. Anyone else here spend an hour every day just waiting for people to finish their sentences across a pause to look at a smartphone for no good reason?

Re:Just like alcohol and driving

[Oswald McWeany]

Here's hoping this takes the same path as light drinking before driving. Now it's the childred; soon it'll be the adults too. Anyone else here spend an hour every day just waiting for people to finish their sentences across a pause to look at a smartphone for no good reason?

As long as the cellphone exists, I'll own one. And use it.

However, with that said, if I could "uninvent" any technology on the planet it would be the cell phone. No reason being the only person on the planet not using one, but it sure as hell has had more negative impacts on society than positive ones.

I think for an individual, owning a smart phone is a good beneficial thing. For society, everyone owning smart phones is a bad thing.

Be it texting and driving, you can't have a gathering of people without everyone's face in a screen. (I'm an introvert, I don't like people, but sometimes I just want to get done with a meeting and move on).

Or you can't have a mealtime because people have forgot manners and answers their phones in the middle of a meal. (this is the Mother in law in my family... can't have a meal without her having a phone conversation). Or getting stuck for ever at Target because you're behind someone with the cartwheel app and they're scanning every item before the cashier does. (I avoid Target when I can because of this).

My cell phone is useful to me. Everyone else's cellphone is bloody annoying.

Re:easy to clip this on to a bill banning burner p

[Oswald McWeany]

Are there adults that are addicted to their smartphones? Most definitely.

There are a whole lot more adults that are simply addicted to avoidant behavior. If it wasn't smartphones it would be TV. Before TV it would've been a book.

For times immemorial, extroverts have looked at introverts and decided since introverts would rather spend a large amount of time not socializing there must be something wrong with them.

No, introverts just don't want to spend time socializing. That's it. That's all. Take our phones, take our computers, we still don't want to sit around in a group of 20 people singing Kumbaya.

Re:easy to clip this on to a bill banning burner p

[avandesande]

not understanding ratios really screws you good when you get into higher maths such as algebra and calculus

Re: easy to clip this on to a bill banning burner

[Anonymous Coward]

Leave it to the parents, I say. I know parents who rations "screen time" (phone as well as pc and tv.)
This so the kids will have enough time to socialize and learn motor skills. No need for a ban - because small amounts of smartphone usage is not a problem.

Normal Teenage Behavior

[jasontromm]

"They go from being outgoing, energetic, interested in the world and happy, to reclusive. They want to spend all their time in their room. They lose interest in outside activities."

Isn't that normal teenage behavior? I grew up long before cell phones. When I was a teen I spent most of my time in my room working on an old Apple ][+ computer.

Re:This is a good idea

[Opportunist]

I would also advise against putting ice cream into your back pockets or keeping your donkey in a bathtub.

http://www.dumblaws.com/

Re:easy to clip this on to a bill banning burner p

[Ol Olsoc]

Of course there's evidence of this, it just changes every couple of years. Previous candidates: Heavy metal, Dungeons and Dragons, [...] stamp collecting, trading cards, [...] Morris Dancing, [...] cave painting [...] banging rocks together. I've left out a few hundred of them just to save space.

I was the victim of Morris Dancing addiction. My basement was filled with Hurdy Gurdys and thrift shop flower Garlands. I sold my body on the streets to buy an accordion I abandoned and rejected family and friends. I was on a downward spiral that would only end with my demise. Damn those Morrisites and their fancy geegaws and velocipedes.

Then I bought a smartphone, and kicked my addiction on facebook. Type yes if you agree.

Re:Mod parent up!

[cayenne8]

Wow, people buying kids smartphones at age 8yrs?!?!

Geez, I couldn't keep up with my jacket for more than 2-3 weeks when I was 8yrs old....much less a $$$$$ small electronic device.

I guess I can see the "pro" side of it..easier contact with kids...as that we don't have pay phone everywhere like we used to.

But I dunno...I don't think I'd buy my kids smartphones that young. Actually I think I'd have them work and earn money to buy most of the phone and "help" them a bit...but likely only when they were a teen, maybe 16yrs?

I'm not sure the obsession parents seem to have today....are the chances of a child kidnapping THAT much greater than it was when I was a kid, or are people more paranoid?

I mean, when I was a kid 12yrs old or so, I'd take off on my skateboard in the mornings in the summer...and might not come home till dinner time...I'd be out running around skating with friends, maybe building a ramp (with plywood stolen from new houses being built, no one got in trouble)...or running out in woods....maybe at the neighborhood swimming pool....but I wasn't in 24/7 phone touch with parents. When I was younger than 12yrs, I was pretty much the same way, but my folks would want me to try to call from a friend's house to check in every 2-3 hours...but that was for very young.

The more I think about it, I"m really GLAD we didn't have cell phones where parents could track us 24/7.....glad there wasn't a fscking camera everywhere, and social media.

I'd not have had the fun I did....and the mischief we got into...didn't lead us to getting into trouble, or going on records, or being scrutinized by everyone in the world.

We had fun, learned from mistakes, and I'm still friends with many of those same guys, and we now have tons of fun stories when we get together.

Man..the more I think about some of our exploits back then...if done today, would have had homeland security looking for us...*SIGH*

I actually feel sorry for the kids of today a bit....with all the electronics, they don't seem to learn as early (if at all) how to really talk to each other and socialize in meat space as well. They don't seem to be as active.....having friends in their neighborhoods, with "kill the man with the ball" games breaking out, etc. and doing other fun outdoor activies.

I don't think maybe I'd buy my young kids smart phones, maybe not buy phones at all....I'd want to allow them to be kids like I was, to learn what it is to be trusted and trustworthy, and to face consequences when they did wrong and go caught.

Hell, I'm not sure I'd let them on social media till they were much older....you can't be bullied on social media, if you're not on it....

Re:easy to clip this on to a bill banning burner p

[Oswald McWeany]

An introvert doesn't askew all contact with humanity, they just chose to spend more time alone. I would never want to lose all contact with all people forever; but, if I prefer to go for a hike alone, or read a book alone, or be on my phone alone, or go kayaking in a safe location alone, that shouldn't be looked on as an abnormality.

A lot of extroverts feel like introverts are broken because they don't want to be surrounded by other people all the time. That's not true. There is "me" time and there is "with other people time". Introverts just prefer more "me" time.

No one wants to be truly alone. (or almost no one).

Re:Safety requirement

[PPH]

I can still remember the millions of children that simply disappeared before the advent of cell phones. It was a huge tragedy.

Re:This is a good idea

[Rick Schumann]

Get your fucking hands off the people's rights unless you can prove you're right.

Apparently you haven't gotten the memo, friend; The Truth has been up for sale for a long time now; it gets to be defined by the highest bidder. Otherwise, for instance, tobacco companies would have been driven out of business a long time ago.

Re: easy to clip this on to a bill banning burner

[Grishnakh]

Don't blame the parents. Parents who try to do what you say (let their kids roam around unsupervised) are derided as "free range parents" and get arrested by the cops, and their kids seized by CPS due to "negligence".

Re:easy to clip this on to a bill banning burner p

[enjar]

I checked the website of the Waldorf schools in my (US) state. Preschool is $17K/yr, K-8 is $23K/yr, 9-12 is $29K/yr. There is some "tuition help" listed, but only up to 50% off for those who qualify. These schools are in some of the most affluent areas of my state, with real estate prices regularly flirting with $1M+ for pretty "normal" houses. They also have some of the best public schools in the state. So yeah, at least in my area, anyone who attends Waldorf school is going to be self-selected as someone who can not only afford to live in the most expensive towns but above that has enough income to spend ~$25K (or n*$25k/yr if there are siblings) to send their kids to school. I'm willing to bet these kids would be "successful" no matter what, since their family has access to wealth and resources that aren't available to quite literally the other 99% of society.

Re: easy to clip this on to a bill banning burner

[drinkypoo]

You mean Muslims, the religion defended by the Leftist Progressives.

It doesn't matter which religious reich seizes the reins of power, it is always shit for everyone else, and even for their own followers who are not sufficiently pious or zealous. That's why you can't have freedom of religion without freedom from religion.