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Why So Many Top Hackers Come From Russia (krebsonsecurity.com)

Long-time Slashdot reader tsu doh nimh writes: Brian Krebs has an interesting piece this week on one reason that so many talented hackers (malicious and benign) seem to come from Russia and the former Soviet States: It's the education, stupid. Krebs's report doesn't look at the socioeconomic reasons, but instead compares how the U.S. and Russia educate students from K-12 in subjects which lend themselves to a mastery in coding and computers -- most notably computer science. The story shows that the Russians have for the past 30 years been teaching kids about computer science and then testing them on it starting in elementary school and through high school. The piece also looks at how kids in the U.S. vs. Russia are tested on what they are supposed to have learned.
Fossbytes also reports that Russia claimed the top spot in this year's Computer Programming Olympics -- their fourth win in six years -- adding that "the top 9 positions out of 14 were occupied by Russian or Chinese schools." The only two U.S. schools in the top 20 were the University of Central Florida (#13) and MIT (#20).

263 comments

  1. They may be good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    but they still haven't found Hillary's emails

    1. Re:They may be good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If only we had decent hackers in the US. Then maybe they could release the Russian hooker piss-tapes to Wikileaks. I love watersports.

    2. Re:They may be good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      leaked piss-tapes...HAHAHAHAHAHA!

    3. Re:They may be good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As if WikiLeaks would publish anything negative about Trump.

      Anyone with leak-worthy info about Trump or anyone else should install Freenet and publish it there. It can't be censored or taken down.

    4. Re:They may be good by king+neckbeard · · Score: 0

      No need to go that far. Traditional media will publish anything leak-worthy Trump is doing, at least if it's not just doing the usual establishment filth that has been normalized in those circles.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    5. Re:They may be good by shaitand · · Score: 1

      I'm sure you are right, they are certainly spending mountains of time covering everything not leak-worthy he is doing and trying to spin it as much as possible. They were always biased but the overt level of bias, spin, and falsehood on CNN and friends is on par with Fox News these days.

      They spent days trying to spin a tweet by Trump that Comey better hope there aren't any tapes of their conversations as some kind of threat when any sane person can fill in from context "because they'd prove you are lying and told me I wasn't under investigation."

      Hell, Putin said the most sane thing yet in any of this, the only evidence of Russian hacking are Russian IP's, a child can spoof their IP. No Russian state hacker is going to show up in your logs with a Russian IP, they aren't incompetent. Who cares if Russia wanted to influence our elections? Are we bringing back the conversative anti-Russian nonsense and propaganda from McCarthy and the cold war? The material revealed showed active collusion between the DNC and Clinton campaign against sanders and that domestic corruption is a much much more serious issue.

    6. Re:They may be good by scatbomb · · Score: 1

      Yep, and yet liberals have no hesitation claiming that the media has to "hold things back" in order to "protect their sources." Meanwhile anyone who doesn't have their head up their own ass knows that the media, if they had anything at all substantive, would do anything and everything within their power (legal or not) to use it to disrupt the current admin - sources be damned.

    7. Re: They may be good by slashdotwannabe · · Score: 1

      Did you just seriously say "who cares if they influence our election"?

      --
      This comment is my opinion and does not represent an official position of Donald Trump or others I do not work for
    8. Re: They may be good by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

      No, he sys, "who cares if they wanted to influence our elections?" And he's right, this controversy is old hat, and has been happening to every country that had access to the internet for as long as they've had that access. And before that, they used low tech methods.

      Speaking realistically though, American oligarchs are far more effective than Russian oligarchs, and the American oligarchs have more conflicts of interest with the American people.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    9. Re: They may be good by shaitand · · Score: 1

      "Did you just seriously say "who cares if they influence our election"?"

      Yes, yes I did. What difference does it make if the people who provided the information that swayed your vote are American, Chinese, Russian, etc? The information matters not the source. Would you shoot yourself in the foot with a shotgun if Putin was trying to convince you not to?

      If the Russians were the only reason we saw the accurate information which swayed us in the polls they did us a favor, their reason for doing so is beside the point. Accurate information is knowledge, knowledge is power, providing information to sway our voters is also empowering them.

  2. So what! by John666fromArkansas · · Score: 0

    I want my burger. F!ck the school. I want my burger and beer.

    1. Re:So what! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're a man of simple tastes, and I like that.

    2. Re:So what! by Maritz · · Score: 1

      Thanks for censoring the word 'fuck', my dignity and my fragile mind was at stake.

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
  3. Americans are stupid! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    News at 11.

  4. Consequentialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Meh, call me when there is a better version of Amazon, Netflix, or OS that the beancounters will accept for EIS coming from Russia or China.

    Until then its nothing but USA products, companies, and services.

    1. Re: Consequentialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This aricle is about the education system in Russia, not Capitalism vs (failed) Communism. Also, don't you realize that you Amerikanos have Google due to Russia/Soviet Union?

    2. Re: Consequentialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Chekhov?

    3. Re: Consequentialism by arth1 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Are you talking about Sergey Brin, half of the duo who started Google, or how Russian scientists were involved in the mathematics behind eigenvalues, which is the underlying fundament for Google's pagerank algorithms?

    4. Re: Consequentialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This article is about the education system. One way to judge that system is by what consequences it brings i.e. consequentialism.

      Does it produce evil people that commit crimes and make the world worse?

      Yes.

      Does it create computer scientists capable of out competing the leaders in their field?

      No.

      You brought the economic system and dickwaving into this, whatever an "Amerikano" is.

    5. Re: Consequentialism by king+neckbeard · · Score: 2, Informative

      Are you saying that the US system doesn't produce "evil people that commit crimes and make the world worse?" Because I'm pretty sure the rest of the world disagrees.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    6. Re: Consequentialism by Highdude702 · · Score: 0

      But we make the best evil people! Hillary 2019! lol

    7. Re: Consequentialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I remember reading somewhere - I think it was about the Goldman's dude who was arrested for stealing code - that Russians are generally good at programming because they were so under resourced, and computer time so sparing, that you had limited access time in which to enter and run your code on a system before your time was up. That in turn meant you had to be spot on pretty much first time every time.
      Noting also that they tend to be pretty bloody good mathematicians.

    8. Re: Consequentialism by Maritz · · Score: 4, Funny

      Russian education system - great at making hackers, not so great at making people who resent living in a kleptocratic autocracy.

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
    9. Re: Consequentialism by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      how Russian scientists were involved in the mathematics behind eigenvalues, which is the underlying fundament for Google's pagerank algorithms?

      I think that's a little far-fetched. While some Russians were involved, the whole "eigen" prefix should provide a hint towards Western Europe. ("Eigen" is German for "own" as in "my own car".)

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    10. Re: Consequentialism by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Russia hasn't been Communist for now 25 years

    11. Re: Consequentialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Plenty of people resent it, but they also don't fancy getting poisoned.

    12. Re: Consequentialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean internally irradiated?

    13. Re: Consequentialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That reminds me of the education of another country, that is great at making CEOs, but not so great at making people who resent living with a moronic president.

    14. Re:Consequentialism by V+for+Vendetta · · Score: 1

      For Russians there is: look up i.e. Yandex.ru's properties and products.

  5. Hackers in Russian media by Tuidjy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've been watching a lot of Russian language media lately, because I have been trying to restore my language skills. Hackers in Russian movies are much more realistic than in American ones.

    One gets asked whether he can get in a secure system? He does not boast, he answers "I will certainly try."

    He does not mash the keyboard while he is getting a blowjob, he deploys an arsenal from 'Flashka' or from a alphabetical soup URL.

    He examining an air-gapped system, looking for a way to get at the hardware, and mumbling about which patches seems not to have been applies.

    He gets asked to get some video records? He asks "Do I have an hour and a half"?

    Etc... And that is from police shows, where the staff hackers are not necessarily named characters, and definitely not the focus of the series.

    This tells me that that the population at large has some idea about IT... you would not make a movie in the US where the driver will shift three times while driving backwards, would you? I mean... Uh, you get the point.

    --
    No good deed goes unpunished...
    1. Re:Hackers in Russian media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      ... you would not make a movie in the US where the driver will shift three times while driving backwards, would you?...

      US films are usually about making money via drama and "entertainment" (whether or not you're entertained is subjective). So yes, we most certainly would, assuming the scene was intense, dramatic, put viewers on the edge of their seats -- all with hopes of making tons of cash at the box office.

      The last glimpse I saw of accurate "hacker" portrayal in the US was in the 1992 film "Sneakers".

    2. Re:Hackers in Russian media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Story-telling is story telling.

    3. Re:Hackers in Russian media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And unrealistic story-telling is unrealistic.

      Anyway, at least in the west the whole thing is run entirely on sensation, not on content. You can see it in "hacker" meaning nothing any longer, and in the fact that a vapid attention-seeker gets to be "expert" on "security". No wonder the security situation isn't improving.

      I'm really waiting on the day that saying "security override" actually works. MovieOS for everyone, people. Even law enforcement wants this, in how they want backdoors in everything, down to the math that backs our ability to talk securely to each other.

    4. Re:Hackers in Russian media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But the car goes faster every time you shift, right?

    5. Re:Hackers in Russian media by Razed+By+TV · · Score: 2, Informative

      To GP: Your post is frightening and enlightening.

      To anon parent: GP's comment, possibly half tongue-in-cheek, was alluding to American's being focused on powerful cars and high stakes driving, and it being reflected in movies that will accurately portray skillfully driving expensive cars. The Fast and the Furious moviegoer will not, in fact, expect the driver to shift three times while driving backwards, because there is only one gear for going backwards. (For the record, I have not seen a Fast and the Furious movie).

      Likewise, GP is claiming that Russian media accurately portrays hacking because it would be insulting to Russian viewers (who are more knowledgeable about hacking) for the hacker to bang out the hack while getting a blowjob, as in Swordfish (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfy5dFhw3ik).

    6. Re:Hackers in Russian media by Lumpy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You sir nailed it on the head.

      In the USA we coddle the idiots and the stupids. WE tell them they are special and make sure hard things are not hard for them.
      Elsewhere the coddling does not happen, they create TV shows that support intellect and thought... instead of the US Where We have basically "ow my balls" , "dancing with ow my balls", and "thinking is hard news channel"

      This is the difference. you treat a populace as if they are highbrow they get embarrassed if they dont understand and aspire to learn. If you cater to the lowest common then you get everyone degenerated to that.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    7. Re:Hackers in Russian media by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Re "all with hopes of making tons of cash"
      In Russia you study to become veterinarian.
      In Capitalist West cartoon about horse doctor entertains you.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    8. Re:Hackers in Russian media by arth1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      there is only one gear for going backwards. (For the record, I have not seen a Fast and the Furious movie).

      You have not driven a recent Mercedes with a 7G-Tronic transmission either. They have two reverse gears, R1 and R2, with different ratios.
      And older Mazda rotary engine cars like the RX3 could run the engine both ways - if you rolled backwards, turned off the engine, put it in first and dropped the clutch, it would start in reverse mode, and you could now use all gears.

    9. Re:Hackers in Russian media by Gussington · · Score: 0

      If you cater to the lowest common then you get everyone degenerated to that.

      Every country has crap TV, the entire business model is built on lowest common denominator for advertising dollars . It is your choice whether you watch it or not.

    10. Re:Hackers in Russian media by arth1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is the difference. you treat a populace as if they are highbrow they get embarrassed if they dont understand and aspire to learn.

      This may well be a factor. In the US, few people seem to be ashamed of being ignorant.
      Just last week I mentioned to someone that I'd like to visit Malta again, and he said "Where's that? Africa?". It's not that he didn't know, but that he had no embarrassment or shame whatsoever. If I didn't know where a country was, I would have looked it up before opening my mouth, or at the very least have apologized for my ignorance instead of flaunting it.

      Before Internet took off, most people also had an encyclopedia in the bookshelf; even if they couldn't afford Encyclopaedia Britannica, at least a small one. Except Americans, who at most would have a Scrabble dictionary. This perplexed me - didn't people want to find out things? It took me a while to accept that no, in general, they don't, and they were not the least bit ashamed of that either.

    11. Re:Hackers in Russian media by radarskiy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      'the US Where We have basically "ow my balls" '

      Have you ever seen Japanese game shows? Half are basically "Ow My Balls" with a hyperactive announcer and scrolling text on all four edges of the screen. The other half are basically "Ow YOUR Balls".

      '"dancing with ow my balls"'

      See Eurovision, which is basically "Dancing with Ow My Balls" with bribery.

    12. Re:Hackers in Russian media by rtb61 · · Score: 2, Funny

      In American, you fucked around with lead in fuels and are still stupid enough to have lead water pipes and just to ensure mass stupidity like to fire lead bullets, at rifle ranges basically mainlining lead in huge doses (gun nuts are gun nuts because sucking on lead bullet exhaust is a national pass time). Yep, you poisoned your population and are continuing to do so because greed, unlimited greed, more greed, more (continuing to do so in the most flabbergasting stupid fashion). Don't want to understand it, check lead poisoning levels to crime statistic for specific regions, well, perhaps get another country to do it for you, the people you send will lie because greed and they are poisoned by lead.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    13. Re:Hackers in Russian media by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      > US films are usually about making money via drama and "entertainment" (whether or not you're entertained is subjective).

      This is my new favorite phrase for the week.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    14. Re:Hackers in Russian media by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      In all fairness, that scene was offensive in its unrealism to a lot of US movegoers also. What a load 'o' crap that film was.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    15. Re:Hackers in Russian media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The difference is Russians cannot copy paste from English based forums. They have to learn how to use the tools in hand - unlike the lazy unskilled "How do I do?" crap coming from so-called professionals.

    16. Re:Hackers in Russian media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Story-telling is telling.

    17. Re:Hackers in Russian media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was with you at first, but nobody should be too embarrassed or ashamed to admit they don't know something or ask a question. I'm not saying the guy wasn't flaunting his ignorance, but I'm sure there are several countries you don't know the location of, and it would be better to ask than to pretend and then look it up later.

    18. Re:Hackers in Russian media by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      In the USA we coddle the idiots and the stupids. WE tell them they are special and make sure hard things are not hard for them.

      Heaven forbid somebody like that ever won the Presidency.

    19. Re:Hackers in Russian media by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      So is working in a bank.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    20. Re:Hackers in Russian media by jandersen · · Score: 2

      ... they were not the least bit ashamed of that either.

      Sometimes I get the impression that Americans are proud of being ignorant - or at least pretend to be proud of it (and I say this without malice). I wonder if it is because of the general mistrust in anything to do with government and 'city slickers' that seems to have been a feature of much of American culture - the sort of sentiment that seems to be crystallised in Sam Cooke's song, "Don't Know Much About History". Bookish knowledge and education is something that can feel as if it is dictated by some authority (which it is, in a sense), and it also tends to make students strive to leave the ways of their parents behind, which looks and feels a bit like 'class treason'.

    21. Re:Hackers in Russian media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're advocating that people should be embarrassed and ashamed when they don't know where Malta is located? Unless that person is a cartographer who specializes in European maps, it's not a big deal to know about Malta. Also, get over yourself.

    22. Re:Hackers in Russian media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... they were not the least bit ashamed of that either.

      Sometimes I get the impression that Americans are proud of being ignorant - or at least pretend to be proud of it (and I say this without malice).

      My take on it is that there's a strand of being "self-made", you know, the trekker gone trekking and ended up a successul farmer, despite all the adversity.

      Now I don't know if it's the craving of adversity that surely you get from being ignorant, or simply the living in the land of milk and honey that makes 'em think they can afford the luxury of ignorance. But the need for having something to fight, to struggle against is clearly visible inside what passes for American Culture. Of course this is armchair anthropology so take with sufficient grains of salts. But the Wars On Stuff are points in that case.

      I wonder if it is because of the general mistrust in anything to do with government and 'city slickers' that seems to have been a feature of much of American culture [...]

      Quite possibly stems from the same roots, if not outright because of each other.

    23. Re:Hackers in Russian media by tommeke100 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Indeed. Look at all the great hackers and coders from the demo scene in Finland and Scandinavian countries.
      I think most cracked games I saw from the C64 and Amiga era were from groups in those countries.

    24. Re:Hackers in Russian media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On behalf of everyone not in possession of your obvious genius, let us all grovel and bow before your superior intellect and mastery, o ye who have never not known anything. Wanker.

    25. Re:Hackers in Russian media by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      I always thought it was because children are encouraged to ask questions and learn constantly, and not be embarrassed about it.

      Should people be embarrassed that they don't know something and have asked about it? Seems to me like they are trying to improve themselves. I'd be more inclined to think they were an idiot if they seemed not to know and not to be interested in finding out.

      I think it's not so much pride in ignorance, it's that people have been convinced that their opinions matter. There was some politician on the TV telling the journalist that even though crime stats say crime is down, what matters is that people *feel* like they have gone up. You see the same thing on Slashdot all the time, people relying on personal experience or incredulity when faced with actual data and solid evidence.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    26. Re:Hackers in Russian media by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      My car can do 96 MPH in reverse. No gearbox. Just saying.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    27. Re:Hackers in Russian media by r0kk3rz · · Score: 2

      In the US, few people seem to be ashamed of being ignorant. Just last week I mentioned to someone that I'd like to visit Malta again, and he said "Where's that? Africa?". It's not that he didn't know, but that he had no embarrassment or shame whatsoever.

      To be fair, 'Africa' is not a bad guess. Malta is a tiny island located between continental Africa and Italy.

      As a counter-anecdote, last week I was in France for a music festival, and one of the bar staff there was clearly american. I'm not french and so she wondered where I was from, I answered and her immediate response was; 'I have no idea where that is, my geography is terrible, I'm from the states'.

      So apparently being American is a sufficient excuse for being ignorant about stuff, I don't think she was being proud about it as such but certainly not ashamed.

    28. Re:Hackers in Russian media by rgbatduke · · Score: 2

      I certainly hope you enlightened him with a surprised look and an answer like "Where Malta'd Milk comes from, of course..."

      --
      Even when the experts all agree, they may well be mistaken. --- Bertrand Russell.
    29. Re:Hackers in Russian media by arth1 · · Score: 2

      You're advocating that people should be embarrassed and ashamed when they don't know where Malta is located? Unless that person is a cartographer who specializes in European maps, it's not a big deal to know about Malta.

      Oh, basic geographic knowledge isn't just for cartographers or those with special interest.

      I specifically said that it was not the ignorance that threw me, but his flaunting it.

      That there's not even a grain of embarrassment in showing ignorance does appear to be a cultural difference between Americans and the most of the rest of the world.

    30. Re:Hackers in Russian media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nah, it's the Russians winters - its either chess, vodka, or hacking for entertainment.

      You sir are correct. As a not very proud citizen of USSR, I can attest that RF is a much bigger shithole that USSR was in 80s+. Hackers leave RF because they have enough brainpower to see their future. They are not "special". They are just smart enough to GTFO, and I am sure capitalist Russia doesn't like that prospect. We shouldn't even get started on scientist that refuse to work on classified projects. Or try to at least.

    31. Re:Hackers in Russian media by arth1 · · Score: 1

      To be fair, 'Africa' is not a bad guess. Malta is a tiny island located between continental Africa and Italy.

      That he seemed surprised when I told him it was an island country south of Italy, my suspicion is that he was thinking of Mali. I could be wrong.

      What I would have expected if someone didn't know was to apologize for having forgotten (because there's just no feasible way to have missed not just school geography, but all other references that would have one look it up, like Maltese dogs, The Maltese Falcon, the Blue Lagoon, Maltese Cross and crusaders, WWII operations and the recent independence).
      Not announcing not knowing while looking at you like a Golden Retriever, expecting a pat on the head for not knowing. In reality, it just tells that this person can be expected to be ignorant about a great many things, because he has no shame in it and no inclination to try to learn things without being told.

    32. Re:Hackers in Russian media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is also the school system:

      1: Schools get cash for any student that winds up in the juvi detention system. Mainly because in most states, there isn't a set term limit, the kid has to jump through hoops, or be locked up until age 23. Private prisons are the in thing now.

      2: Support for bright students is lacking. Any student that doesn't toe the line perfectly gets a pair of shiny metal bracelets from a "resource officer". See #1.

      3: Teaching is at best mediocre. Students leave with perhaps algebra, trigonometry at best. Maybe even a smattering of number theory.

      4: Coding? Yeah right. Someone even looks funny at security, and the resource officer comes for them. See #1.

      5: Conformity. Again, anyone not in the mold gets tossed in the clink, so at best one can "rebel" by having a white iPhone and not a black one.

      Russia, Europe, hell, even Mexico, teache coding, security, and critical thinking.

      Here in the US, they teach: conform, consume, comply... and cower.

      Anyone who has stepped outside the US can see this.

    33. Re:Hackers in Russian media by rgbatduke · · Score: 0

      No, it's just that well over half of us live in an enormously neurotoxic environment -- heavy metals in the water and air, food additives, insecticides, hormones, and antibiotics in the food, radioactives in the buildings and soil leftover from the era when we deliberately exploded nuclear bomb after bomb upwind of our population centers and farming regions. Then throw in Television, to take the brain-damaged children and ensure that they never even have to learn to read properly to be entertained at the same time they learn that entertainment is sitting passive (and has no intellectual challenge whatsoever in 95% of what is considered "entertaining"). Feed those children fast food with a huge salt load, sugar load, and a lack of actual nutrients so that -- given their sedentary entertainments -- they all are slightly overweight as children and blossom into openly fat adults long before "their time", impacting the blood supply to their brains. These children are taught -- explicitly taught -- not to think too critically from when they are far too young to resist, as a part of learning a religion that was literally invented and perfected to make a slave population content with their lot and unwilling to act to change it in an enormous slave-based empire in the fourth century BCE and that has done its work superbly (both functions -- elimination of critical thought and contentment with slavery) forever after. To finish off the job, put them in public schools with teachers that "Don't know where Malta is", being taught math by people who got a B- in calculus in college (if they went to college) from a textbook selected by a committee whose sole virtue is that it MIGHT help teach the students to balance a checkbook by the time they get out of school -- if there were any such thing as a checkbook any more.

      Is it any wonder that at the end of this, you end up with young adults that think that the National Enquirer and Globe are the best sources of news and who vote for a billionaire liar serlal philanderer as president as being the best possible choice for freeing them from all of the massive corporations (including his) for whom they are a nearly perfect source of cheap labor? Note that it isn't any one of these things, or two of these things -- people can shrug off malnutrition, they can get past a terrible education -- it is literally damaged brains (probably in utero) as evidenced by the steady rise in ADD, ADHD, anxiety disorders, suicides, and more among the young and young adults, TOGETHER with a 60% or better terrible education with poor teachers and miserable textbooks, the elimination of reading as the primary form of "fantasy" entertainment (fun obtained from something other than getting up and doing something outdoors, with others) so that they cannot easily teach themselves, an information stream provided for entertainment that could cause brain damage (of sorts) in full grown adults, etc.

      We shouldn't forget the impact of PTSD and rampant cigarette smoking, alcoholism and drug abuse among the young (including the very young) as well. At least those are things that the US doesn't have a near-monopoly on. The amazing thing is that even with all of this, a remarkable number of children grow into functional and even intelligent, ambitious, competent young adults. And we make up for many of the losses by attracting the best and brightest people from all over the world to immigrate and fill in the positions it is difficult to fill out of our general population, and it usually takes a generation or two for the genetic and cultural/moral decay to set in.

      As for the Russians -- it is easy to see why they become hackers etc. A large chunk of Russia is too dark and too cold to go outside in winter at times that they aren't in school. Kids therefore have to entertain themselves indoors for months at a time at least during the winter. Russian TV sucks and is a lot sparser than US TV, and once they've read all of the books in the house, nothing is left but the computer(s). The r

      --
      Even when the experts all agree, they may well be mistaken. --- Bertrand Russell.
    34. Re:Hackers in Russian media by rgbatduke · · Score: 1

      Or all three at once! And don't forget sex!

      --
      Even when the experts all agree, they may well be mistaken. --- Bertrand Russell.
    35. Re:Hackers in Russian media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would someone be ashamed of not knowing one particular bit of geography trivia that probably has very little relevance - if any - to their daily lives?

    36. Re:Hackers in Russian media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except he has a point. Malta is pretty close to Africa.

    37. Re:Hackers in Russian media by Maritz · · Score: 1

      In the USA we coddle the idiots and the stupids.

      You coddle a handful of them. You put them in charge or stick them on the Kardashians and worship them like demi-gods.

      Actual people with educational difficulties who would improve with the correct kind of care? Nah. You do fuck all with those except give them a red hat and tell them to vote.

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
    38. Re:Hackers in Russian media by Maritz · · Score: 0

      The anti-intellectual slant in the US is much stronger now than compared to the 60s for example. It'll bite them on the ass in the end when most of the rest of the world is technologically a decade or two ahead.

      Look how few USians believe in evolution or climate change. Yes, I equate the two, because they are both disbelieved by fucking morons.

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
    39. Re: Hackers in Russian media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      American movies are all about computer graphics and explosions now. This happened quite a few years ago when the marketing types in Hollywood figured out that there was more money to be made worldwide than domestic. The movies were altered to prefer the lowest common denominator that a worldwide audience could enjoy, explosions etc.... i.e., plot lines with regional references don't translate to a worldwide audience, so most of the studio money gets spent on the exploding stuff instead. Quite sad in my opinion.

    40. Re:Hackers in Russian media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've saving this quote:

      "This is the difference. you treat a populace as if they are highbrow they get embarrassed if they dont understand and aspire to learn. If you cater to the lowest common then you get everyone degenerated to that."

    41. Re: Hackers in Russian media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And what possible difference will it make in that persons life knowing the location of Malta?????

      None, that's the answer. Most people learn what they need or want to learn and don't bother with the rest. You had an interest, he did not. Big deal.

    42. Re: Hackers in Russian media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No lead water pipes. Try again.

    43. Re:Hackers in Russian media by ranton · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I specifically said that it was not the ignorance that threw me, but his flaunting it.

      You have quite the chip on your shoulder. Nothing in your description shows he was flaunting his ignorance. He was seeking knowledge by asking where your vacation location was. It shows interest in gaining knowledge, instead of the alternative of continuing to be ignorant about a small self-governing set of islands in the Mediterranean. It also shows the maturity to ask someone for help instead of thinking it shows weakness.

      Not knowing where neighboring Algeria, Libya, or Italy might cause some embarrassment, but not knowing about a 450k population country? I would be as embarrassed as if I couldn't identify where Matola, Londrina, Gdansk, Yamoussoukro, or Adygeja are, which are all cities with a greater population than Malta. Do you also criticize someone not knowing where the Stapedius is, or not knowing what the 409 HTTP Response Code is?

      You need to grow up. Knowing the names and locations of all 196 countries is closer to obscure trivia than something you should expect everyone to know.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    44. Re: Hackers in Russian media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, for the blowjobs experts out there that scene was pretty accurate...

    45. Re:Hackers in Russian media by thomn8r · · Score: 1

      In the US, few people seem to be ashamed of being ignorant

      In the US, the ruling class wants everyone to be stupid, which is why they're trying so hard to eviscerate public education. That is, except for their own kids, who get sent to Ivy-league schools. A dumb electorate is a more malleable electorate. So you need skilled workers? Import them - they're cheaper and more easily controlled.

    46. Re:Hackers in Russian media by ranton · · Score: 1

      because there's just no feasible way to have missed not just school geography, but all other references that would have one look it up, like Maltese dogs, The Maltese Falcon, the Blue Lagoon, Maltese Cross and crusaders, WWII operations and the recent independence

      I do remember school geography, and I'm sorry to say Malta didn't even make the cut when we were tested about European countries and their capitals. We also didn't learn about Andorra, Liechtenstein, San Marino, or Monaco. Vatican City was mentioned, but only because it was the smallest. I believe Luxembourg was the smallest country we learned about in any detail. Perhaps European countries learned about these more obscure countries in school, just like some obscure American geography and history is probably not commonly taught in Europe.

      Your post shows how ignorant people can be about what knowledge really is common and what comes from their own particular interests and experience. It's ironic you are even flaunting that ignorance

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    47. Re:Hackers in Russian media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm assuming you use a method similar to one shown on Top Gear where vehicles were flung out of a cannon at what was effectively a large dartboard made out of scrap vehicles and earthworks, except you put your car in backwards to achieve a reverse velocity of 96 MPH without a gearbox?

    48. Re:Hackers in Russian media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's a particular Mongolian barbecue place in the Twin Cities that shows these types of Japanese game shows on a continuous loop.

      Sumo wrestling (from 2007) is thrown into the mix for good measure.

    49. Re:Hackers in Russian media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And here I thought that Yakov Smirnoff had retired.

    50. Re:Hackers in Russian media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See Eurovision, which is basically "Dancing with Ow My Balls" with bribery.

      Well put.

    51. Re:Hackers in Russian media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's nothing. I have an airplane I can drive in reverse.

    52. Re:Hackers in Russian media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh great, another "oooo stupid dumb Amerikanos don't know the geography of Europe as well as Europeans do, so dumb hahahaha, while I can EASILY name EVERY North America state (all three of them that is), so much smarter than those morons ahahaha"

    53. Re:Hackers in Russian media by guises · · Score: 1

      Just last week I mentioned to someone that I'd like to visit Malta again, and he said "Where's that? Africa?". It's not that he didn't know, but that he had no embarrassment or shame whatsoever.

      This is the worst possible example I can think of for your point. The ability to be open about one's ignorance, and to ask a question to rectify that ignorance, without embarrassment or pretending to know something about which you know nothing - that is a strength.

      You're right that we have a problem with glorifying ignorance, but this is not a good example. Unfortunately, most of the good examples are political so maybe that's why you were avoiding them...

    54. Re:Hackers in Russian media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ironically, most of what you've said ails the USA goes doubly for Russia. No doubt you've heard of Chernobyl!

      Russia actually did have a particular knack for producing top mathematicians in the 20th Century. There were a couple of reasons for it. One is that the state put a ton of resources into math and physics and not a lot of other career options were open to the average person. (Similar to why Cuba has lots of good doctors.) This no longer applies, though, and Russian universities have collapsed since the end of communism.

      The other reason is that Russia uses a different approach to mathematics education which seems to be more successful: combining mathematics with applications rather than teaching them as separate subjects.

    55. Re:Hackers in Russian media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stop backing over the edge of cliffs.

    56. Re:Hackers in Russian media by arth1 · · Score: 1

      You have quite the chip on your shoulder. Nothing in your description shows he was flaunting his ignorance.

      Except for the part where I said that he was flaunting it, you mean?

      It's non-trivial to convey facial expressions, body language, tone of voice and similar non-verbal communication on a text-only forum, so you have to take my word for it. It was not a question phrased out of interest, but disinterest, pointing out that he didn't know and didn't care that he didn't know.

      You need to grow up. Knowing the names and locations of all 196 countries is closer to obscure trivia than something you should expect everyone to know.

      You seem to not understand the point, despite it being explicitly stated several times. It's not the lack of knowledge, it's the lack of embarrassment.
      No matter what someone talks to me about, and whether I know it or not, if their expectation is that people will know it and I don't, I try to find out, and if I can't because I need to know before the conversation is over, I apologize. It's not your job to educate me, and I'm not entitled to your elucidation. A little humility works far better than brashness and flaunting ignorance as if it were something to be proud of.

    57. Re:Hackers in Russian media by arth1 · · Score: 1

      Why would someone be ashamed of not knowing one particular bit of geography trivia that probably has very little relevance - if any - to their daily lives?

      We should be ashamed of everything we don't know. That we can't know everything is a given, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't work towards the unreachable goal, or that we should be happy about not knowing things, and share that happiness with others.

    58. Re: Hackers in Russian media by arth1 · · Score: 1

      Most people learn what they need or want to learn and don't bother with the rest.

      And that's the problem in a nutshell: The "don't bother" part.
      We have amazing brains, and not bothering to learn more than required is what makes someone a sub-human. You can't learn everything, but you can assimilate knowledge as long as your brain works, and not see that as a bother. People seem to accept Minitrue's "Ignorance is Strength" way too easily.

    59. Re:Hackers in Russian media by arth1 · · Score: 1

      My car can do 96 MPH in reverse. No gearbox. Just saying.

      A DAF-66 or Volvo-66 with variomatic?

    60. Re:Hackers in Russian media by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Nissan Leaf.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    61. Re:Hackers in Russian media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not only that, but in the US it is considered every idiot's right to get a mfg job when they don't do well in school. That's why so many angry, disenfranchised Trump voters boast about how they're willing to break a sweat, but are horrified at the prospect of cracking a book. The uneducated, working-class (for now) whites - backbone of plutocracy.

    62. Re:Hackers in Russian media by arth1 · · Score: 2

      Oh, sorry, I thought you said "car"...

      (Sorry, could not resist. No offense intended!)

    63. Re:Hackers in Russian media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you serious?

      The average Russian likes and supports Putin and thinks he isn't corrupt. I'm sorry, but the average russian is just as stupid as the average american. Who knows why more hackers might come from russia, but this isn't it.

    64. Re:Hackers in Russian media by shaitand · · Score: 1

      I'm assuming you haven't driven a Telsa which can go in reverse just as quickly as forward without needing silly mechanical shifting or even messy and leaking explosions under the hood like those antiquated caveman cars.

    65. Re:Hackers in Russian media by shaitand · · Score: 1

      Nice. It did shock me to discover that most Vets don't make more than your typical office worker though.

    66. Re:Hackers in Russian media by shaitand · · Score: 1

      "It's not that he didn't know, but that he had no embarrassment or shame whatsoever."

      Why should be ashamed? Everyone is ignorant so there is no shame in it. He immediately took action to cure his ignorance by asking the question. Literally every question asked by anyone is a declaration of ignorance. The only time it is shameful is if you are wasting someone's time looking for easy answers you should be puzzling out for yourself but for the purpose of having context in the middle of a conversation geography self-study is hardly more practical than just asking.

      I have to wonder, is there something about Geography in particular you think makes it shameful? In the US our schools certainly spend more time on that within the US than the world at large but at some point in grade school everyone memorizes the capitals and fills out names on the map.... most people don't retain that since it is only practical knowledge for a small subset of the population.

      Look at this another way, do you think it likely that man's life would personally impacted if every person in Malta died of a plague that died with them tomorrow or someone started bombing them? Probably not. On the other side of the pond there are an extremely large number of countries that are relatively important, the only thing knowing their names and being able to point to them on a map will do is save you the trouble of looking it up to satisfy your curiosity when some disaster that has no impact on you gets mentioned on the news.

    67. Re: Hackers in Russian media by shaitand · · Score: 2

      That is going a bit far. There is only so much time in the day, even someone who spends all of it learning (which is certain going to minimize their ability to DO anything) would have to "not bother" learning more things than not. The probability that a piece of knowledge will be useful is a reasonable filter for choosing which things to "bother" learning.

      That said, learning at least the locations and capitals of every nation in the world is standard curriculum in U.S. elementary schools but most don't retain that information because they never use it. For most it falls under the category of trivia, the most you'd get out of it is saving a google search when something that also won't impact you happens there and is mentioned on the news.

    68. Re:Hackers in Russian media by ranton · · Score: 1

      Except for the part where I said that he was flaunting it, you mean?

      Yes, obviously except for that part. Your assessment of his behavior is separate of an actual description of this behavior which could bolster the confidence a reader gives to your assessment. Considering the rest of your statements about the need to apologize for not knowing esoteric information, it is hard to take your claims seriously without significant backup information. Based on your statements in this forum, my assumption is now that you were being a braggart and this person was simply being dismissive of you because of it.

      You seem to not understand the point, despite it being explicitly stated several times. It's not the lack of knowledge, it's the lack of embarrassment.

      When someone seems to believe I should know some piece of esoteric information, embarrassment is certainly not the reaction they get from me. My first assumption would likely be this person has a confidence problem and needs to boast about how great s/he is. At that point I'm probably not too engaged in the conversation anymore unless I am interested in the topic being discussed. Although often I like to take these opportunities to learn about cultural differences which cause our different opinions about what common knowledge should be. My foreign born coworkers and neighbors are generally filled with interesting information about how our different upbringings affected us.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    69. Re:Hackers in Russian media by shaitand · · Score: 1

      "the Wars On Stuff "

      Nah, those are just political tools. If you give people an enemy to war against they spend less time examining you and give you a tool you can use to justify power grabs and watering down their rights. If you get really lucky it will be controversial and divide people into strongly in support and against, division is the first step to conquest. Why do you think the powerful elite decided to control the populace with two political parties and then carefully choose hot button issues that don't hurt the wealthy either way and neatly split up the population down as many lines as possible.

    70. Re:Hackers in Russian media by arth1 · · Score: 1

      When someone seems to believe I should know some piece of esoteric information, embarrassment is certainly not the reaction they get from me.

      Again, the point seems to fly right by you. It's not about whether you know something nor whether you should know something, it's about whether, when you don't know something, that makes you uncomfortable/embarrassed or not.
      And I think that's a big cultural difference, and based on the posts here, one that many have a problem even wrapping their mind around.

    71. Re:Hackers in Russian media by arth1 · · Score: 1

      I'm assuming you haven't driven a Telsa which can go in reverse just as quickly as forward without needing silly mechanical shifting or even messy and leaking explosions under the hood like those antiquated caveman cars.

      You're right. I have never driven a Telsa...
      But the GGP was about shifting while driving in reverse, so it's about as relevant as whether you can walk backwards.

    72. Re:Hackers in Russian media by shaitand · · Score: 1

      "faced with actual data and solid evidence"

      Yes, but in fairness massaging that data and evidence to suit a position has become so much an art that nobody really trusts anything unless it reaffirms what they suspect already or are neutral toward.

      One I often point at is "gun crime" statistics where guns are more readily available. Of course "gun" crime goes up when guns are more readily available, but "gun crime" was only labeled and categorized separately so someone could have a statistic which implies, but in no way supports, the idea that crime goes up when guns are more readily available. In other news the "wood construction" statistic goes up when wood is more readily available and pointing that out along with my advocacy of the lumber industry would imply, but in no way support, the idea that more construction happens when wood is more readily available.

      Maybe guns lead to more crime, maybe wood leads to more construction but "gun crime" and "wood construction" rates don't establish either because availability could simply could have changed which tool someone used for a job they would have done anyway. Anyone with critical thinking skills recognizes this, sadly we've become a culture where they lack the integrity to point it out if they support the underlying cause.

      Unfortunately the major media has become so heavily and blatantly politically biased in the US that it isn't a credible source of information. Even our science is often that way with the bias in what is being investigated and what not being investigated and the spin and bias applied to the interpretation of the data if not the actual data itself. When you can't trust information from others personal experience becomes your most reliable source of information.

    73. Re:Hackers in Russian media by scatbomb · · Score: 1

      I think the lesson to be learned is that the educational value of TV is relatively poor and that stupid TV knows no borders. People who watch less and work on other hobbies are often smarter than those who devote many hours each day.

    74. Re:Hackers in Russian media by arth1 · · Score: 1

      I have to wonder, is there something about Geography in particular you think makes it shameful?

      No, it was an example. What it was about is irrelevant, the point was that professing ignorance does not appear to cause any qualms for most Americans. It doesn't matter what it is, but the sentiment I get is:
      European/Asian: I lack knowledge, this makes me slightly uncomfortable.
      American: I lack knowledge, cool, who cares!

    75. Re:Hackers in Russian media by shaitand · · Score: 1

      "We should be ashamed of everything we don't know. That we can't know everything is a given, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't work towards the unreachable goal"

      So by your logic if we were having a conversation and I mentioned I'd be visiting a cousin of mine you weren't familiar with, your solution would be to go awkwardly silent with your extreme shame and attempt to look up my cousin in a crusty and dated encyclopedia set later? You must spend a great deal of time wallowing in shame.

      Failing to ask questions of those who have knowledge when you don't know things seems like a poor way to cure ignorance.

    76. Re:Hackers in Russian media by shaitand · · Score: 1

      " It's not your job to educate me, and I'm not entitled to your elucidation."

      If one is going to burden others with a tale relating to an obscure topic or destination one has implicitly assumed the burden of answering any questions required to familiarize the listeners with what one is talking about. To do otherwise would suggest one just likes to oneself speak and perhaps even enjoys feeling superior to others and that is something one should be ashamed of.

    77. Re:Hackers in Russian media by shaitand · · Score: 1

      Why be ashamed? Americans are generally reasonably well versed in US geography, knowing the capitals, major cities, and some of the more notable features of the 50 states any one of which is comparable to most nations and the least of which is more significant than Malta. Europeans are not used to nations that are large enough to be geography course of their own rather just be part of one.

      I also suspect there is probably more of a remnant of the dated idea that volume and detail of memorization equates to education and intelligence in European education. If you are taking more time memorizing something than you are likely to spend looking it up should you need it you are managing your time poorly. You could use that wasted time to learn or something useful or enjoyable and time is the one resource none of us can get more of.

    78. Re:Hackers in Russian media by shaitand · · Score: 1

      Bullets are typically jacketed, lead is no longer in our paint, fuels, pipes or anything else we've been able to find an alternative for. The dangers of lead are taught early and often as are the dangers of a weak population that demands of those in power without having any teeth to go with their bark.

      The dangers of having a disarmed population should become very apparent after having suffered a foreign invasion but apparently being mowed down like grass at the hands of fairly small and weak military during world war II failed to teach that lesson to Europeans. Note what a sharp contrast there was when the most powerful military in the world attacked a nation like Iraq or Afghanistan where the governments collapsed quickly but even the poorly armed population was able to hold out and make life uncomfortable for the occupiers until they left or the even more obvious example of the heavily armed Swiss population which the Nazi's skirted right around despite the great wealth located there. Perhaps Europeans will learn from history eventually.

    79. Re:Hackers in Russian media by shaitand · · Score: 1

      The president is a moron but currently I'm a lot more concerned about the media. Normally claiming the media is controlled and working for a political party or special interest is the stuff of paranoid conspiracy theorists but what is happening now is so blatant and overt you'd need to have no critical thinking skills whatsoever or be completely blinded by partisanship to the point of failing to employ them to come to any other conclusion.

    80. Re:Hackers in Russian media by shaitand · · Score: 1

      Definitely, this was true throughout the dial-up days when bandwidth was precious and you depended on the vendor providing the bandwidth by hosting a demo version of the app and piracy just required passing around the crack files to unlock the demos. Reverse engineering was hard and took a great deal of time and skill and most of my warez contacts were from eastern Europe.

    81. Re:Hackers in Russian media by ranton · · Score: 1

      Again, the point seems to fly right by you. It's not about whether you know something nor whether you should know something, it's about whether, when you don't know something, that makes you uncomfortable/embarrassed or not.
      And I think that's a big cultural difference, and based on the posts here, one that many have a problem even wrapping their mind around.

      I have been speaking to that exact point in each post. You shouldn't be embarrassed about not knowing esoteric information. Someone who knows enough about Malta to know it is near Africa is obviously not going to be embarrassed he doesn't know exactly where it is.

      The bigger problem is someone so insecure he thinks others should be embarrassed about not knowing something like this. Or someone who keeps thinking those who disagree with him must just not understand his point, instead of the possibility his point doesn't make much sense. Once again, it shows the type of hubris which comes from insecurity.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    82. Re: Hackers in Russian media by computererds · · Score: 1

      Do you think that all the pipes in America that were installed before 1950 have been replaced?

      Here's a link for an article http://michiganradio.org/post/where-are-lead-water-pipes-michigan-here-s-our-best-guess to educate yourself a bit on the topic, if you're not one of the people that is proud of their ignorance.

      The article is Michigan local. The problem is not. Unless you live somewhere that didn't exist before 1950, you have lead in your service somewhere. The issue in Flint was corrosive water. There are still lead pipes all over the place.

    83. Re:Hackers in Russian media by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      "Americans are generally reasonably well versed in US geography, knowing the capitals, major cities, and some of the more notable features of the 50 states "

      No they dont. in fact most americans can not name all 50 states let alone the capitals of those states. and sadly right now the loudmouths at the extreme left and right cant even tell you what the contents of the constitution and the bill of rights actually say yet they all whine like unfed babies almost daily about them.

      Americans in general are extremely uneducated. It's because our education system is an absolute joke. There is a reason I took my kids out of public school and paid for private school. Because I wanted them to know Algebra, Geometry, and some real science. And its about to get worse with a drooling bible thumper in charge of education.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    84. Re:Hackers in Russian media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are also correct. It's been how many years and we are STILL poisoning the people that live in Flint Michigan. That one incident is why I give no republican any respect as they are not screaming for those innocent people to be helped OR for the complete scumbags in the Michigan government to be jailed. Not one.

    85. Re:Hackers in Russian media by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Tell that to the residents of Flint Michigan. And yes there are STILL lead or high led content steel water mains in almost all major cities. And any home... ANY home older than 1979 has lead paint in it because we dont require it to be removed, just painted over.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    86. Re:Hackers in Russian media by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 1

      I certainly hope you enlightened him with a surprised look and an answer like "Where Malta'd Milk comes from, of course..."

      You should be ashamed of yourself.

    87. Re: Hackers in Russian media by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      And if the film had been *about* blowjobs, that would have been fine.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    88. Re: Hackers in Russian media by ale2011 · · Score: 1

      Phew, a decent comment, at last. Not decent enough to mod it up, so I reply instead.

      "We" don't use IT, so we don't mind about cybersecurity. Thanks to shaitand's explanation, now we know that's the reason why students —as well as other people— are not interested in learning how to hack. How come?

      One example that comes to mind, recalling a three-year old talk, is the mindset by which you can't expect users to be the primary security managers of their own accounts. If we wanted e-commerce customers to be drawn from IT security experts only, we would still be going to shop by car (yeah, I know we still do... Cars dominate this discussion.)

      Let me repeat myself, I'm at about one third through the comments, and the parent poster is about the first one on subject. Computers, algorithms, cybernetics, and that kind of stuff are all too important to be left in the incompetent hands of the populace. Let's discuss something else, please.

    89. Re:Hackers in Russian media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hi,what movies are you talking about? link to kinopoisk.ru?

    90. Re:Hackers in Russian media by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      European/Asian: I lack knowledge, this makes me slightly uncomfortable.

      American: I lack knowledge, cool, who cares!

      More like:

      Europen/Asian. I lack knowledge. This embarrasses me, so mustn't let anyone know.

      American: I lack knowledge. Let's correct that right now.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    91. Re:Hackers in Russian media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The real answer is that you're an ass that no one enjoys talking to; maybe you should be the one embarrassed by your boorish behavior.

  6. Education system that educates, perhaps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Maybe the Russians aren't wasting time trying to figure out what bathroom a student should be allowed to use or letting some precious snowflake change the language because he doesn't like to be called "he"?

    Maybe the Russians tell the violent kids they're fucking violent and kick their asses out of school, and don't care how it might correlate with racial statistics?

    Maybe the Russians have an education system that isn't run by a union intent on playing politics with every damn thing?

    1. Re:Education system that educates, perhaps? by tekrat · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Agree, and also maybe because religious groups aren't lobbying to have "intelligent design" taught as SCIENCE, and that perhaps the earth is not flat and jesus didn't ride dinosaurs.

      --
      If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
    2. Re:Education system that educates, perhaps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      maybe if you love Russia so much, you should move there.
      then again, maybe you're gay. that's it, isn't it? HA!

    3. Re:Education system that educates, perhaps? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      And you know why? No communists!

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    4. Re:Education system that educates, perhaps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I apologize, I left this article open on my computer and my son filled out the previous reply. He will be disciplined.

    5. Re:Education system that educates, perhaps? by alexo · · Score: 2

      Agree, and also maybe because religious groups aren't lobbying to have "intelligent design" taught as SCIENCE, and that perhaps the earth is not flat and jesus didn't ride dinosaurs.

      Article 148 of the Russian Criminal Code disagrees with your assertion.

    6. Re:Education system that educates, perhaps? by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      Russia is on a straight way to abolish secularity nowadays.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    7. Re: Education system that educates, perhaps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Oh yes, we do have other "blacks" in place

    8. Re: Education system that educates, perhaps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just took a dump in your mouth. I'm pleased that you find it so tasty. Glad I could be of service to you! Enjoy!

    9. Re: Education system that educates, perhaps? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      I would yawn, but you'd probably do it again.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    10. Re: Education system that educates, perhaps? by fubarrr · · Score: 0

      I fuck president Putin's wife

    11. Re:Education system that educates, perhaps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or people are so poor there that criminal act is the easiest way to earn some money. The russian culture also is based on breaking the laws whenever possible. Just watch how those bastards act generally and and park at neighbouring countires. The corrupted legal justice system also helps as people will get away from punishment with correct relations or bribes.

    12. Re:Education system that educates, perhaps? by Maritz · · Score: 1

      Maybe the Russians aren't wasting time trying to figure out what bathroom a student should be allowed to use or letting some precious snowflake change the language because he doesn't like to be called "he"?

      Ethics go great with gaming journalism, don't they? SJW SJW!!!

      The Russian education system does what Dear Leader Putin says to the letter, just like every other cowardly agency in the glorious Russian Kleptocracy that Trump is so fond of.

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
    13. Re: Education system that educates, perhaps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You expect any of us to believe that you were held back by somebody else? lol. Everybody knew you were slow in school, man. That's why you're on here blaming 'njiggers' for your lack of success in life. You really, really, can't blame them for your grotesque face though. That's on you and you inbred folks.

    14. Re:Education system that educates, perhaps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As long as they don't give the Muzzies in Chechnya, Tatarstan, Dagestan, et al a free reign, they're good

    15. Re:Education system that educates, perhaps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe the Russians have an education system that isn't run by a union intent on playing politics with every damn thing?

      Speaking from experience, Russia is mostly a giant shithoole full of poverty with exception of special places. Education is shit, infrastructure is in collapse. USSR had it better and it was shit. They barely have enough money to maintain army full of psychopaths who destroy brains of any male that is forced into conscription. Cuntry ran by sociopaths for army full of psychopaths. Communism is still 40 years away just like fusion power.

    16. Re:Education system that educates, perhaps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh, no. It's because they teach math. That they do other awful things while teaching math does not make it a cause-and-effect relationship. Being vicious toward gays does not make more time for teaching math. Sorry. If it did, Southern states would be full of math geniuses and chess players, instead of uneducated working-class whites who feel they are owed a good job simply because they're toughness-signalling Murkans.

    17. Re:Education system that educates, perhaps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure you have perceptively identified all the true causes of american ignorance. We all bow to your brilliance. ahole.

    18. Re:Education system that educates, perhaps? by martinfb · · Score: 1

      I think the "union" thing is mis-information.
      It is the US Education system LEADERS - like Ms Voss, and Mr Trump - all puppets of corporations - that are contributing to the mis-education of our kids.
      (Corporations need shallow-thinking bodies to maintain their control over (us).)

      Consider the the stupidity of the general public here in the US - e.g. look how many people voted for Trump!
      And look how many did NOT vote for Sanders, who has education as a top topic on his platform!
      IF more of the general public had a useful education, they would have done due diligence in researching EVERY candidates' plans,
      and would have seen that Sanders' plans do, in fact, make the best sense.
      Way too many voting Americans are way too lazy to do their part here.
      Their shallow thinking has them stopping at the first candidate showing signs (misleading or not) that there is an entitlement coming from a vote for them.

      --


      Self-importance and self-indulgence is the root of ALL evil.
  7. Too many lawyers in the US by johanw · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In the US, there is an extreme risk-averse culture. Not risk-averse as in "start a company and it might fail" but as in "don't even think about trying to beat the system, someone might sue you for it". So the very thing that causes many of the most succesfull companies to be founded in the US is actively suppressed when it comes to hacking skills.

    1. Re:Too many lawyers in the US by Lumpy · · Score: 2

      Want a secret to being a raging success at work? have the balls to make a decision and own it.
      So many executives are spineless pussies that refuse to make a decision. Be a underling that makes decisions owns those decisions and takes the credit when you are right and the blame when you are wrong, you will stand out dramatically against the scared pussy-willows of the rest of the corporation that the ones that matter will notice.

      And you will piss off the ones that dont matter.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    2. Re:Too many lawyers in the US by just+another+AC · · Score: 1

      Want a secret to being a raging success at work? have the balls to make a decision and own it.
      So many executives are spineless pussies that refuse to make a decision. Be a underling that makes decisions owns those decisions and takes the credit when you are right and the blame when you are wrong, you will stand out dramatically against the scared pussy-willows of the rest of the corporation that the ones that matter will notice.

      And you will piss off the ones that dont matter.

      OR..
      The existing 'spineless pussies' will own your successes (and will make absolutely sure you do not get the credit), and will blame you for the failures. So that is not a universal secret to success, although it is a good thing to aspire to.

      The true secret to success is to be good and your job (including making decisions about your work), AND find a company that values and rewards that. Truly great companies have decision makers at all levels, or don't even have levels (eg Buurtzorg who have 10,000 employees and NO managers). If you have to be at the top to make a meaningful decision, move on!

    3. Re:Too many lawyers in the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      ... secret to being a raging success ...

      There are 2 rules to success:

          1. Never tell anybody all the rules.

    4. Re:Too many lawyers in the US by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

      If you have to be at the top to make a meaningful decision, move on!

      Good advice if I ever heard it. It's even making its way into business administration textbooks, with numerous studies citing "agency" (having some autonomy in your work including being able to make decisions) as a major factor in job satisfaction.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    5. Re:Too many lawyers in the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The true secret to success

      The true secret to success is not to learn actual production skills like a normal person, but to attend "business" studies. That way you can become, fresh out of college or maybe even as part of a company sponsored graduation project, a small-time manager with a few people underneath you. You'll get to experiment with those people, and learn how not to do stuff at their expense. Then you move up elsewhere, citing relevant work experience. While your underlings are kept busy in their rat race to become the best in their chosen skill set, you get to manoeuvre and manipulate them as pawns in your game. You rake in the money while they do the actual work. Cite the importance and need for oversight, direction and leadership whenever questioned about this at parties.

      I may be a little bit bitter.

    6. Re:Too many lawyers in the US by rgbatduke · · Score: 2

      --If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...

      Hmmm, interesting analogy. I don't think I agree. If construction were like programming, many buildings would have corridors that wind through the building with no entrances, it would have others with one way doors that you enter on the ground floor that take you through corridors with no exit to the top floor and exit through a one way door into thin air, it would produce buildings intended to function as a public library where the books have to be brought up, one at a time, from a basement filled with rooms indexed with the first word of the title and shelves indexed with the second stored in the order of the third word per shelf, for books with three or more words in the title. An entire second layer of basement would contain similar rooms indexed by the first letter of the author's name, etc, where the only items in card catalogs are the titles (hence first three words) in each author's name. An incorrectly fitted lock is more like a syntax error or typing error in a program -- comparatively easily found and corrected. Even if the lock is the primary entrance -- so it DOES block the use of the building -- the building doesn't "crash" as in have to be rebuilt, it just needs to have the lock fixed so that the building can be used.

      In other words, there are plenty of places where the analogy does work. If you build a building with inadequate structural members, it might WELL come crashing down and have to be redesigned and rebuilt. If you build a building that is too small or too poorly designed to fulfill its primary function, whether it is as a residence or business or manufactory, you might need to tear down and start again, or do "extreme remodelling". All of those ARE features of coding as well.

      I'd be more inclined to say that construction, or engineering in general, are a lot more like coding than not like it. Engineers build machines, or buildings, or bridges, out of structural elements that have properties, purposes, and that follow a certain logic. Coders build "machines" out of words. Special words, no doubt -- words that are structural elements with properties, purposes, and that follow a certain logic -- but words. That's the main difference.

      To bring the (gentle, I hope) philosophical rant above back OT, serious coders are those that build their first machine out of words and then say to themselves how cool was that! At that point, to my own direct experience, you can't really stop them, especially if they learn that they can get material rewards for doing it as well. They will teach themselves what they need to know to pursue their (a)vocation, they will scrounge resources, they will stay up late (the only time you can code is late at night when all of your life 'distractions' have gone to bed:-), neglect their personal hygiene, and start drinking Jolt Cola to maintain their edge when they have to function in the "real world" on four or five hours of sleep in order to get 6 to 8 uninterrupted hours to code.

      Personally, I think that the death of the US coder was caused by Windows and the various post-Mac Apples. PC-DOS provided a built in path for computer owners to start to write programs -- the original IBM PC has BASICA in ROM so you couldn't own a computer without owning at least one programming language in its own "development environment". BASICA got dropped from ROM as clones appeared, but it was replaced by "turbo" compilers that were cheap IDEs that anybody could buy (and did) driven by the fantasy of writing a game or killer app for the platform. Then Windows came along, and it was no longer easy, or cheap to write a program with graphics. This raised a huge barrier between the kids who might have become hackers/coders and actually doing so. At this point NO laptops or desktop computers sold with pre-installed Windows have anything like programming support.

      This means that the only platform in the

      --
      Even when the experts all agree, they may well be mistaken. --- Bertrand Russell.
    7. Re:Too many lawyers in the US by shaitand · · Score: 1

      This is the myth, the reality is this just results in you having to do all the work.

  8. "Well-Known" Hackers, that is . . . by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

    So the title should have read:

    Why So Many Well-Known Top Hackers Come From Russia

    Really good hackers don't get caught, and don't even leave a clue that they were there at all.

    The really interesting top technical hackers . . . well, we haven't heard of them yet, and probably never will, if they are that good.

    Wherever they are . . . or, better said, "are not" . . .

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    1. Re:"Well-Known" Hackers, that is . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Title should have read, Russian hackers work for the Russian mafia and are protected from arrest by a corrupt system.

      Also, they lack the many lucrative opportunities in legitimate industry that western computer experts can take advantage of.

    2. Re:"Well-Known" Hackers, that is . . . by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      The really interesting top technical hackers . . . well, we haven't heard of them yet, and probably never will, if they are that good.

      Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

      We all know they come from North K0|Â&87'@... #'#io
      *& ,m,;l
      no carrier

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  9. Nature of the beast by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most people have been indoctrinated to never make a distinction between any people. It's that discrimination taboo, don't you know. Those of us who have a head on our shoulders see and know that Russia, as well as the eastern block countries, have always been a bunch of godless crooks and they always will be. Corrupt societies breed godless criminals, having no moral compass, thus doing what ever they can do to cheat and steal.

  10. The dumbing of down of U.S. Education by p51d007 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Has been going on for a little more than 30 years. How many "person on the street" interviews have you seen where young adults, heck, even some older adults Can't find their own state on a map, can't tell you who the president is, can't tell you which side won the civil war and on and on. Is it any wonder the government (both R&D's) have been able to strip away rights, bloat the government, encroach on your every waking minute?

    1. Re:The dumbing of down of U.S. Education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We had 'no child left behind'. Where we were sold 'lets test the kids and find out what is wrong. Instead we got 'lets test the kids and teach to the test'. So the whole shebang went off the rails.

      When I was a child in the 70s/80s computers were PART of the curriculum for the more advanced kids. Then in the 90s we decided 'fuck that noise' and no one had them. Instead of everyone just having a class in it...

    2. Re:The dumbing of down of U.S. Education by alvinrod · · Score: 5, Insightful

      To be fair, I suspect that if you did this (i.e. conducted an experiment that polled random people on the street about such topics) you'd find that the overwhelming majority could answer perfectly fine. If however, you're running an entertainment program or a news show (which is kind of an entertainment program now-a-days anyhow) you probably toss out all of the correct results and only show the clips from the people who get it wrong or act like complete duffusses for the camera. If you only actively highlight the stupidest people you can find, of course things seem worse than they are.

      I'm not terribly worried about poor schooling as IQ scores have been trending upwards over the past century since we started measuring intelligence. People will succeed and figure things out despite shortcomings in the educational system, just like people largely manage to overcome shitty or sub-optimal parenting and turn out to be decent. People tend to look back at the old days through a rose colored lens and focus on the good without looking at the bad. Somewhat recently I was talking with a relation of mine who recounted his years in high school and how much of a joke it was as one of the teachers was a drunk and taught them next to nothing and another would pass anyone on an athletic team no matter how poorly they did.

      If today's world seems so horrible it's only because we have access to news media from all around the world. I can spend all day reading about bad things happening from half way around the world, whereas 30 years ago that was practically impossible even for government intelligence agencies. Once again, if you only put the worst on display, it leads one to make incorrect assumptions. Things in general are getting so much better, maybe not as quickly as everyone would like, but the trend line is moving in a positive direction overall.

    3. Re:The dumbing of down of U.S. Education by arth1 · · Score: 2

      To be fair, I suspect that if you did this (i.e. conducted an experiment that polled random people on the street about such topics) you'd find that the overwhelming majority could answer perfectly fine.

      In the US tech company I have worked with, I think a majority of employees would fail basic questions about computer topics. That includes most of management, which is unsurprising, but even a fair number of people in tech positions.

      Many would likely see basic questions as advanced, because their concept of computer proficiency is if you can hit Reply All in Outlook and use Excel as a table formatting tool instead of a as a spreadsheet.

      But simple questions like how a stack works, what endianness is, or what Boolean operations do will have them stumped. Even a tech director thought that an xor encryption with a random one-time-pad could be brute forced and needed to be "protected in transit by stronger encryption like ssl", because he couldn't grasp the basic concept of an xor.
      I'd laugh, if it weren't so sad.

    4. Re:The dumbing of down of U.S. Education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep, most americans are uneducated morons. They may have a diploma and degrees, but they are in fact uneducated morons.
      Disclaimer: I'm an american, I see and deal with these morons daily.

    5. Re:The dumbing of down of U.S. Education by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Most executives will fail at "plug in the monitor"

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    6. Re:The dumbing of down of U.S. Education by Vadim+Makarov · · Score: 2

      To be fair, I suspect that if you did this (i.e. conducted an experiment that polled random people on the street about such topics) you'd find that the overwhelming majority could answer perfectly fine.

      Uh, unfortunately not.

      --
      17779 eligible voters in a district, 17779 'vote' as one. This is Russia.
    7. Re:The dumbing of down of U.S. Education by just+another+AC · · Score: 1

      Most executives will fail at "plug in the monitor"

      Only because they are still trying to find the Monitor Fluid that someone told them was causing the problem.

    8. Re:The dumbing of down of U.S. Education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not terribly worried about poor schooling as IQ scores have been trending upwards over the past century since we started measuring intelligence. People will succeed and figure things out despite shortcomings in the educational system, just like people largely manage to overcome shitty or sub-optimal parenting and turn out to be decent.

      [citation(s) needed]

    9. Re:The dumbing of down of U.S. Education by shameless · · Score: 1

      To be fair, I'm pretty sure that most "person-in-the-street" interviews are edited so as to highlight the worst of the bozos because that makes for good television. When I was a kid I'd watch these and go "Ooh! Ooh! Pick Me! PickMeeeeee!!! I know the answer". Later I realized this would be the best way NOT to make the final cut that aired...

    10. Re: The dumbing of down of U.S. Education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rolling your own encryption is ALWAYS a bad idea, son.

    11. Re:The dumbing of down of U.S. Education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... only show the clips from the people who get it wrong or act like complete duffusses for the camera.

      Part of the problem. You must be or act stupid to be on the show, hence stupid rulez.

      When I grew up, there were lots of competition quiz shows. People getting harder and harder questions till only the winner remained. We admired those know-it-alls. Sadly, there are fewer such shows nowadays.

    12. Re:The dumbing of down of U.S. Education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How many "person on the street" interviews have you seen where young adults, heck, even some older adults Can't find their own state on a map, can't tell you who the president is, can't tell you which side won the civil war and on and on.

      How could that be due to dumbed-down education?
      Unless you were home-schooled, you know just as well as I do that all of that was taught.
      I clearly remember the same girl asking two years in a row, "What's a logarithm?", followed by a classroom review of the logarithm. The education system isn't dumb; it's the students.

    13. Re:The dumbing of down of U.S. Education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > I suspect that if you did this (i.e. conducted an experiment that polled random people on the street about such topics) you'd find that the overwhelming majority could answer perfectly fine

      http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/30/science/scientific-savvy-in-us-not-much.html

    14. Re:The dumbing of down of U.S. Education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "........... I'm not terribly worried about poor schooling ........."

      My daughter is a school teacher (grade school) in a school on the outskirts of Austin, TX. Before that she was a grade school teacher in California (yes, CA has a problem retaining teachers, go figure).

      I'm not going to bore you or anyone with details, but you should be worried. The very high level reasons (without the details : ) are:
      - Dumbing down the classroom so anyone and everyone can and will pass. The few that still "fail" are sent to "summer school" which magically passes them to move up a grade the following year.
      - Management (additional time, paperwork, meetings with parents and counsolers, and the list goes on) of "rebellious" students to the detriment of having time to actually teach the "non-rebellious" students. And by rebellious, I'm referring to physical violence possibilities and/or heavy class disruption.
      - Attempting to teach students who cannot speak English (at the same time as trying to teach the rest of the students in English). Or speak the language so poorly as to be just as difficult.
      - Politics driving the teacher's daily routine that thwarts actual time to teach. In general those are directives from the state level, but who are heavily influenced by the federal directives.

      I now understand why parents today, if they can, will go to an extreme amount of time, effort, and money to place their children in either private schools, or very good charter schools. I know I would.

      AC

    15. Re:The dumbing of down of U.S. Education by backwardsposter · · Score: 1

      I agree with your skepticism of those programs, they're likely not a realistic sample. But we also have to be cautious that IQ is trending upwards. For one, I noticed a trend when I went to school that we started teaching towards the test.

      And for two, IQ is derived from a standardized test. Which means the tests are constantly updated to represent modern intelligence, which means the goal posts are constantly moving, and IQ could be more and more associated with what is common knowledge and combine that with the internet and the age of information, might not reflect critical thinking as much as access to social media.

      I'm probably exaggerating a little bit here, and I'm not criticizing IQ, but just doing a thought exercise on what people measure as smart these days. We may have knowledge but do we have critical thinking?

  11. Their math education was superior for generations. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    My wife grew up in the Soviet school system. She told me all about math training there. People from the former Soviet Union are sought out everywhere as math tutors. American schools just flop around when it comes to math and send students up a grade even if they don't have the skills.

  12. Re:Their math education was superior for generatio by davecb · · Score: 2

    I worked with a Russian-born testing theorist: she and they were really really good and worked insanely hard at anything that was amenable to an academic approach.

    --dave (hey, Safia!) c-b

    --
    davecb@spamcop.net
  13. Where is the Russian OS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where are the Russian programming languages?
    What is the predominant OS used in Russia?
    What are Russian hackers doing for OSS?

    1. Re:Where is the Russian OS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's right there in front of them. An OS used by many and easily hackable. It's called.......Windows

    2. Re:Where is the Russian OS by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Prominent OS in Russia? Isn't it ReactOS? At any rate, I've noticed a few Russians in the dev list for TrueOS

  14. How do you define good? by plopez · · Score: 2

    The ones with the most newspaper clippings? Or the ones who never get exposed?

    --
    putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
  15. Eastern Europeans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Eastern European women are hot when they are in their 20's but they don't age well.

  16. Education over generations by AHuxley · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Education has value. The schools teach. People want to learn.
    Exams are passed on merit to get into a really great university.
    So the math skills are created.
    Also consider a long history of maths and science. Computer access and later faster network access.
    Other nations tried to do the same over the years. What did Russia get right and so many other nations totally fail at?
    The UK had its BBC Micro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... for education and a lot of very poor people all around the UK got so see and use a computer.
    Given the funding and early access to computers the UK should have been a very advanced computer nation?
    If it was only about hardware the early attempts at computer education would have allowed the UK to advance.
    The USA educated generations in science after the 1950's with more funding. That provided a good selection of very good US teachers for the next generations.
    The USA filled some of its schools with new computer labs, books, networks, educational software, robot kits and teachers who could teach. A lot of equipment and books got offered to different schools all over the USA.
    Some parts of the USA got vast amounts of new funding for very poor students, per student. Did any of it help or change results? Not as much as expected per generation per student when tested given all the new spending.
    If it was only about computer access, the best teachers and funding the USA on average would be very advanced given the amount of funding per student in some US states and cities..
    What was the difference?
    Passing exams, staying with real merit advancement. In Russia getting good grades and knowing things is seen as a good thing.
    A culture of math, science, art, languages, music, sport, faith and education is encouraged and supported.
    A pride in culture, art, engineering, maths, Russia is passed to each generation who want to learn and study.

    For people in the USA trying to get a wide picture of history try Gymnasium (school) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
    Not much on Russia but it shows a different way of approaching education that has shaped different nations.
    On Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
    The key is the exams and the need to pass on merit. The USA and UK selected very different educational systems over the last decades and per student funding.
    The results of such very different failed methods show decades later over entire nations.
    Too much social promotion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... in some nations and not enough low cost passing tests only on merit.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  17. Climate? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wild guess, maybe because its colder there and people stay indoors more?

  18. Indicator by The+Evil+Atheist · · Score: 1

    Another good indicator is how many so called "geeks" on Slashdot vehemently oppose teaching computer science before university or even high school.

    --
    Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
    1. Re:Indicator by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People who suck are desperate to keep out the competition. That's why so many people here are mad about coding camps and immigrants.

  19. Re:Their math education was superior for generatio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Cool story. The answer is still no, Dave. Stop calling me.

  20. No opportunities by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think the west has a lot more job opportunities in IT. Here you can make a very good career for yourself without having to resort to questionable practices. In fact, having any cyber crimes on your record could close a lot of doors.... so why bother?
    In Russia, talented folks sit around without any prospects of a better life, or fear of consequences. A recipe for making good hackers.

  21. In Soviet Russia... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...etc.

  22. Most kids don't care by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Face it, most kids are not interested in computers, history, and other esoteric topics. Most kids don't need to know it, and will ignore it in class. So, why spend the money on educating them on it? The kids whom want to learn about it, will learn about it in college. Those whom don't want to learn, won't learn about it.

    1. Re:Most kids don't care by johanw · · Score: 1

      And most kids will learn that in the US, if you follow a STEM education, you're learning and putting yourself in debt to be replaced by some H1B. Much better to learn for a medical doctor or lawyer instead, they make sure they won't be replaced by regulating their professions. In Russia (or most other eastern European countries) you can get education more or less for free if you're smart enough because they understand that they need educated people to get their economies further.

    2. Re:Most kids don't care by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most kids do not give a shit at all what they learn and goof off anyway. I am not talking CS 4xx level courses. Just basic simple learning of computers. You know probably a course in python and some basic CS 101 junk. In my day I did not want to learn reading or math or typing. Yet I use those every single day. Then you turn around and test them to make sure they learned it. Not create a test that you know they will pass. Then if they do not pass make sure they pass anyway.

    3. Re:Most kids don't care by thrich81 · · Score: 0

      If "they understand that they need educated people to get their economies further," then why is the Russian economy (and that of most other eastern European economies) so sickly all the time? Perhaps (and that is granting the point without any proof) the Russians do a decent job of educating their populace or encouraging STEM or whatever, but they sure can't put all these skilled citizens to any useful purpose, otherwise Russia's economy would be bigger than one half that of California and not be completely dependent on world oil prices. There is obviously 'something' they don't understand about getting their economies further along. And as far as the USA's system goes, anyone checked lately on the strength of the US dollar compared to the Euro, Australian dollar, Canadian dollar, British pound, etc? Maybe all those so-called faults in the USA's system come with accompanying advantages.

    4. Re:Most kids don't care by just+another+AC · · Score: 1

      If "they understand that they need educated people to get their economies further," then why is the Russian economy (and that of most other eastern European economies) so sickly all the time? Perhaps (and that is granting the point without any proof) the Russians do a decent job of educating their populace or encouraging STEM or whatever, but they sure can't put all these skilled citizens to any useful purpose, otherwise Russia's economy would be bigger than one half that of California and not be completely dependent on world oil prices. There is obviously 'something' they don't understand about getting their economies further along. And as far as the USA's system goes, anyone checked lately on the strength of the US dollar compared to the Euro, Australian dollar, Canadian dollar, British pound, etc? Maybe all those so-called faults in the USA's system come with accompanying advantages.

      Momentum. Cultural and historical momentum. The US has not always been on top. Nor will it remain on top forever. You are just lucky that you don't think outside your own generation's timeframe.

    5. Re:Most kids don't care by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Momentum. Cultural and historical momentum. The US has not always been on top. Nor will it remain on top forever. You are just lucky that you don't think outside your own generation's timeframe.

      This is it! Specifically, the WWII aftermath which left the US infrastructure, economy and population intact while all the other advanced countries were in shambles. This "momentum" is what is carrying the US ahead even when all its systems are rotting from within. To their credit, the people in power in the USA are well aware of this fact and are intentionally destabilizing competing regions/countries of the world denying them the time needed to build up, using military/economic means while disallowing the same to happen within its borders.

    6. Re:Most kids don't care by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

      And most kids will learn that in the US, if you follow a STEM education, you're learning and putting yourself in debt to be replaced by some H1B. Much better to learn for a medical doctor or lawyer instead, they make sure they won't be replaced by regulating their professions. In Russia (or most other eastern European countries) you can get education more or less for free if you're smart enough because they understand that they need educated people to get their economies further.

      I've been hearing this shit for year and still, nothing. Hell, this is no different from people who told me almost 30 years ago not to go into CS because AI would write its own software and crap.

      Seriously, how the fuck does a Biologist or a Nuclear Engineer gets replaced by a H1B? Or even how does a solid software engineer gets replaced under that program? The only jobs that get replaced are IT ditch digging and boilerplate coding. If you are worth a damn at your profession, you simply do not get offshored in general, and in the rare case you do, you simply bounce back.

  23. I think it's creimer's fault by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He claims 200% increase in Russian visits to his "author website". I think Russia just wants to read all his great ebooks with their fun, well-written, insightful, and intelligent stories!

    1. Re: I think it's creimer's fault by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you stopped raping your neighbor's goats yet?

  24. No, it hasn't by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    what's been happening is we've let more and more people partake of higher education. Partially to keep them out of the job market since we don't really need them. Most of them don't make it past year of college. A few get liberal arts degrees. On a whole the increase in education still makes society a better place since they've got better critical thinking skills than they otherwise would have.

    Recently folks have been hard at work to reverse that trend. Religious leaders don't like that the kids with all that education mellow out religiously. The rich don't like paying the taxes for them and would prefer to just import cheap foreign labor (think H1-Bs). And nobody likes to have to pay for somebody else's kids to go to college.

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  25. U.S. had a chance with education. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was in grade school in the 80s. They told us in the future everyone will be programmers and software engineers as a basic life skill, not as a specialized profession. They started programming and computer classes in the fifth grade. That was in Oklahoma of all places. They started us off with Logo (which they paired with a geometry class), then Basic and in the seventh grade we did a little Fortran and Pascal.

    Starting in the eighth grade we moved to Texas, and I was surprised that there where no computer science classes, even going into high school. Equally surprising no one else I talked to seemed to have those types of courses in grade school.

    Needless to say it was a nice kickstart. Not sure why it wasn't widespread or caught on. I mean it's thirty years later and I don't think they do that now.

    1. Re:U.S. had a chance with education. by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      US education was about funding and profit. Some schools got computers. Some states got text books and a brand of calculator that had supported related questions.
      New computers would have been disruptive to that selling of textbooks and calculators.
      The BBC Micro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... showed what a nation could do with computers and networks for more students.
      Did the UK then become a global computer super power with an early decade of computer education?
      A lot of US schools now spend a lot per student in very poor areas. Are people doing any better on average after all that spending, new computers and more teachers?

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  26. Lack of opportunities by yaznaz · · Score: 1

    Most youth do not have avenues to put their talent to productive use. Coupled with a high standards of education in maths and sciences, it is not difficult to see why young Russians end up with such options of last resort that still challenge their intellectual creativity. I would think the lure of money is secondary. These are troubling signs of a society in decay.

  27. Why so many top chess players come from Russia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's the education system, they teach kids the openings and middle game tactics in the schools.

    Oh, they don't? Well, it must be those computer science classes which encourage kids to play chess games on their laptops.

  28. Also in the US the good hackers are often legit by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    There are plenty of companies that pay good money for red team exercises, and even have their own red teams (Microsoft has a very highly rated one for example). So if breaking in to systems and networks is what interests you, you can do it legitimately, make good money doing it, and even get sponsored training doing it. SANS has a whole track of courses for red team training.

    Thing is, you don't get called a hacker in popular media when you do that since the term "hacker" is used to mean someone breaking the law with computer related things. You are an Information Assurance/Information Security professional. Your skills are the same as what they call a hacker, even your methods, the difference is you have been hired.

    Now combine that with the fact that the US has more functional law enforcement than Russia and does at least make some attempt to squash cyber crime and is it any surprise we don't see as many in the US?

  29. Russian Engineers by west · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In much of the West, crime doesn't pay, or at least pay well. Your average street thug probably makes less than minimum wage. Sure, there are a few that make a lot of money, but it's like trying to make a money as a rock band. Only the 0.1% make a middle-class income, and only the 0.001% make the money you see in movies. Plus, you're likely to wind up dead or in jail.

    Consequently, for the most part, only the badly educated or stupid become criminals. There's the odd smart criminal, but having a legit job (if that's available) is simply superior in every way.

    And then you have the former Soviet Union, with a ton of really smart, very well-educated, very talented engineers, with virtually no decent job prospects at all, but still fairly good virtual contact with the West.

    And suddenly, given a lack of options, you have smart criminals.

    And that is a recipe for total disaster.

    As a matter of survival of the Western world, we need to open immigration from Russia so that these smart, talented engineers can find decent jobs that benefit us before they find ill-paying jobs that cost us terribly.

    (Many of my most capable co-workers have been Russians who were able to leave, and man, we their talent working for us, rather than against us, for both our sakes.)

    1. Re:Russian Engineers by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      (Many of my most capable co-workers have been Russians who were able to leave, and man, we their talent working for us, rather than against us, for both our sakes.)

      I would change that to 'working with us.' They are not subordinates.

    2. Re:Russian Engineers by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      former Soviet Union, with...well-educated...engineers, with virtually no decent job prospects at all

      An old saying: An idle mind is the workshop of the devil.

    3. Re:Russian Engineers by l20502 · · Score: 1

      How about actually investing in decent security instead of complaining about the terrible costs of the aftermath?

    4. Re:Russian Engineers by AnthonywC · · Score: 1

      You forgot that in US, white collar crimes pay really, really well; so you end up with very smart white collar criminals and "non-criminals" who game the system. Lots of 1% belongs in that category (e.g. Goldman Sachs who sold junk bond).

    5. Re:Russian Engineers by west · · Score: 1

      Awkward phrasing on my part. "us" includes them.

    6. Re:Russian Engineers by west · · Score: 1

      In the physical world, if someone is determined to kill me, I will die. There are no practical measures I can take that will protect myself against the threat of a sufficiently determined attacker.

      The electronic world is not much different. Unless I want to seal myself in my electronic basement, I will be hacked by someone who is interested in doing so, and the cost of doing so becomes cheaper every day.

      By far the cheapest solution is to offer our would be attackers the opportunity to make a decent living, and, to no surprise, enrich ourselves as well. (The nice thing about economies - they are positive sum games.)

    7. Re:Russian Engineers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > with virtually no decent job prospects at all

      Huh? Tons of IT jobs in Russia.

      > but still fairly good virtual contact with the West

      Which means you can work remotely. Not that you have to write viruses or something.

  30. Re:Their math education was superior for generatio by Mashiki · · Score: 4, Informative

    You can thank the absolute bullshit like common core for screwing things up as well. The ye olde by rote system we learned oddly ~30 years ago worked just fine, then they decided to start fucking around with it. And...scores dropped, then they screwed around more, and more. Welcome to the present. The US isn't the only case either, this is what's happening in Canada as well. Though we're only ~15 years behind the US in following this.

    It actually get's a bit worse up here because they've also pushed the entire curriculum to be "female friendly" and those changes over the last 12 years have dropped male scores between 1.40pts and 3.80pts(ratings are on a 10pts scale the provincial average is 6.1/10 - some districts have seen male students as low as 2.20pts while female in the same school are 7.18pts) depending on the school district. You can read about the absolute shitshow going on here if you want. And it is a shitshow, one so bad that a province once known for having some of the top students in north america for math have lost it in a decade.

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  31. Another baseless "comparison" by sethstorm · · Score: 0

    If there's an answer, it's not with the education system.

    Given that tests do not control for admission criteria (US having tierless secondary/tertiary, Russia/China having highly rigid tiering), there can be no comparison on educational systems.

    They could try again when they factor that and population size out, but it will favor the US a bit too much for them.

    A more likely case is that Russia & China have lax enforcement - especially on foreign targets. Another factor is the law of large numbers, something also not in the US's favor.

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  32. So you favor a failed system - tiering by sethstorm · · Score: 1

    Countries with such systems have less educated people - as they consign people to drudgery if they dont test well or had a bad day.

    In contrast, the US educates about everybody and does well once you factor out admission systems.

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    1. Re:So you favor a failed system - tiering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      there's more to this than just technical education/brilliance. The US obsesses over team building and cooperation. While this sounds like fluff and wasteful, a look at the russian engineers in your team is a good indicator. Pretty much everyone I've met from Russia is a bad team player - they tend to be smart, obnoxiously opinionated and tend to value self's goals over team. Which indicates why they've struggled with coming up with great products; a team of super smart prima donnas has a lesser success rate than a team that is not as smart (or has one or two of these) and cooperates and plays together. May also indicate China's superb growth curve in the past few decades - they value team over individual (albeit in frightful ways given their communist philosophy)

  33. Re:Their math education was superior for generatio by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 2

    To teach K-12 in the US, you need a degree in 'Education' which is for the most part a cultural indoctrination.

  34. Re:Because Putin has the right idea by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

    Yes, because the extreme minority of transsexuals is the deciding factor here, not the fact that America denies basic science and shifts all the money towards useless managers.

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  35. Re:Their math education was superior for generatio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Grades are stupid, you can fail an entire grade for one subject even music, I almost did. Have the teachers change classrooms or the students and teach subjects because no student should ever have to repeat every subject for being poor at one or two,

  36. Not just education by dmpot · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It is true that Russia places a much greater emphasis on teaching math, physics, and CS than the West. However, it is only possible because of Russian culture puts more value on knowledge of those subjects. Their knowledge means both more social prestige and better prospect of finding a well-paid job.

    BTW, many Russians tend to preserve this attitude to math even when they emigrate to the US. As result, their children do better in math on average than American kids. For example, Sergey Brin has never attended any education institution in the Soviet Union, but he was successful in math and CS. Similar, many Asian kids do well in math, because of their parents.

    Anyway, Russia has a large pool of young well-educated people, but Russia does not develop as much software as it could given human resources that it has. As result many young people cannot find a legal well-paid job, and some of them get attracted to the dark economy. Usually Russian authorities will not go after them as long as they choose their targets abroad.

  37. They don't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's just propaganda

  38. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  39. 3 reasons: by CaptnCrud · · Score: 1

    they want money in a shitty country
    they don't really care if they offend any morale bounds because they are 17 in suicide rates.
    they know their present justice system won't care if it's abroad.

  40. Re: Why didn't Obama stop me from colluding with t by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hahaha Trump does make the best one liners

  41. Not surprising. Have you SEEN out countrymen? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most cant operate a modern cell phone let alone understand computer code.

    Don't agree? Go to your nearest wall-mart and look around, you wont even need to enter the store, the parking lot should do the trick.

  42. Wild west by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe because Russia is a wild west for the hackers. If a person in the US would do even a portion of what Russian hackers do out there, he would be caught and sent to jail. However, in Russia, laws targeting hacking activity either did not exist until recently or were not enforced. Even now I doubt that law enforcement agencies know how to deal with hacking activities and able to punish hackers.

    Additionally, if the hacking activities from Russia target US institutions or businesses, it becomes a "national pride", since US in recent years due to sanctions imposed on Russia, is seen as a great enemy just like in the days of cold war. If hacking activity of this kind is done, it will be seen as a greater good to the country and no one will pursue the people behind it.

  43. Re: Because by aliquis · · Score: 2

    CYKA BLYAT MUDAK IDI NA HUI isn't a thing? I could swear CS:GO was full of crying Russians.

  44. Re:Because Putin has the right idea by Bert64 · · Score: 0

    It's not the minority of transexuals that are the problem, it's the massive amount of man hours and resources wasted catering to every special interest group that cause a big fuss about minor things, not to mention the huge risk of lawsuits resulting in huge wasting of resources.

    While russians are busy hacking, americans are busy scheduling committees to decide on what gender options should be available on a signup form.

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  45. Yes! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am INVINCIBLE!

  46. deficit by batukhan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As a former-soviet-state citizen, I think it's because of "deficit". A very well known word for soviet people. You couldn't get anything. Food, clothes, household items. Everything was in deficit. And it came in batches, so you needed to go on hunting trips around town to find some new item in a shop. So naturally, computers were a deficit when I grew up (20-30 years ago). You didn't go to a shop to buy new one. You got an old one from an institution and made do. You got bits and pieces and hacked something together. Software: obviously piracy. Who pays for software!? With piracy comes lots of little hacks and cracks, you get to know and learn the systems. You don't have a support line which caters everything on a silver platter. I don't know. It just feels like this hacking and cracking mentality is coming from that.

    1. Re:deficit by coofercat · · Score: 1

      I was actually going to same much the same thing (although as a Brit, I have no direct knowledge at all). My take on it was that during the soviet era (and even for a few years afterwards), things like CPU resource were so scarce or expensive that if you wanted to write code, you had to be super-efficient at it. To do that meant thinking around problems in unusual ways.

      Western programmers could just import a huge code library they didn't understand and have their 486+FPU run it quickly. Meanwhile, Soviet/Russian coders had to make the whole thing work on something more akin to a 8086 or maybe a Z81, by doing all manner of mental gymnastics and 'hacks' in code.

      I seem to remember the Apple Newton's handwriting recognition code was written by Russians. If true, it's a nice demonstration - writing something pretty hard on a necessarily small, low power architecture and not even having the whole system free to do it either.

      Whilst all of that was several years ago, it takes a few generations to 'wash out' the knowledge of the past, and even longer if you're actively trying to maintain it.

  47. everyone knows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    rich kids makes the l337est doodles, all around they might start the turtle neck trend next MIT who the fuck has enough money to go there.

  48. No, it's DNA. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where are all the AFRICAN hackers?

    1. Re: No, it's DNA. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nigeria?

  49. My insight form inside by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Im form post soviet world and quite connected to Russians and their culture.

    Well to understand some culture one needs to observe how they build their homes. Let me explain. Home_sweet_home is central thing to most of humans, so i would classify it as expression of internal state. In USA and UK people rarely build fences, and if they do they are more decorative than useful as devices for protecting ones home. In contrary in RU people build huge fences, there are fences everywhere not decorative at all. This illustrates soul of typical Russian - "trust no-one". Russians dont trust anyone in their society, their biggest enemy is neighbour. Society just does not have any trust inside.

    That leads to plus: Russians individually excel, because otherwise they will be losers - someone will take their lunch.
    However that leads to way BIGGER minus: Russians as society cant build their nation in effective way, because of this mistrust and lack of trust. They can produce bright individuals, but those individuals will never come together to build successful state.

    Russian state is failure in all senses - health, life quality etc. Except intel and militarry. But intel reports will not cure cancer and tanks will not feed old people.

    Thats the price for bright individuals that dont trust anyone.

  50. apple and oranges by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's like folks who say "all British TV is sooooooo amazing"

    no, all the British TV you hear about is amazing, because you only hear about the great ones

    you guys are comparing your personal knowledge of all kinds of strata of USA IT workers/students with only the most exceptional of Russian hackers

  51. It's the way the companies want it, silly. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's the regulatory environment. There are no rules in Russia so people explore and create. In the US there is punishment for opening/inspecting/being curious. Where are your chemistry kits? Kids who make electronics are accused of making bombs. You need to sue to repair your own devices. You have vicious laws that make the personal cost of opening and looking things very high (DMCA..?)

    That's why. You've done it to yourself by allowing your companies to make the laws for them and not for the people.

  52. Geo-political enbiggening by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If i lived in Russia, with access to Russie's networks and proxies, and a sense that some American corporation isn't going to start world war 3 over ransomware... Hacking looks enticing.

    If i live in America, with American ISPs logging every sneeze, fart and chair movement. With a federal government that'll throw me in debtors prison after I'm sued for millions or just flat out 'rendition'ed to gitmo. Hacking looks stupid.

    Opportunity is the only difference.

  53. It's the Jobs Stupid! by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

    "Compared to the United States there are quite a few more high school students in Russia who choose to specialize in information technology subjects."

    Because of the jobs. When you see people being showed the door because their IT job is being filled by H1B Visa holders, you tend not to want to gravitate to their professions.

    It has nothing, repeat nothing to do with education. It's about choice about professional career and right now IT is being ravaged by H1B Visa holders. So why on earth would you pursue it.

    FYI a Microsoft sponsored study does not ad weight to your argument.

    1. Re:It's the Jobs Stupid! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IT job prospects are much better in the USA than they are in Russia.

      The difference is elsewhere. Russia lacks good job opportunities in general and computer jobs are one of the few ways to get ahead.

  54. Central Florida? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... The only two U.S. schools in the top 20 were the University of Central Florida (#13) and MIT (#20).

    Having attended schools in several states -- including Florida, very briefly -- I have to say: Americans across the nation should be incredibly embarrassed by this statement.

  55. More Likely by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    More like, Russian cultural ethics don't discourage breaking into other people's computers. In the US, phreaking and hacking were despised subcultures well into this decade. Russian culture? No such mores against that.

  56. Re:They don't have a certain problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Go look in the mirror.

    See?

    Not only does everyone hate you, but you're an ugly cunt too.

  57. Re:They don't have a certain problem by Maritz · · Score: 1

    Do you argue over real points as well, or just shit you make up in your head?

    --
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  58. Hackers = Criminals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well what else are these people going to do? Its not that the skills are better, its that there is no where to apply these skills but criminal endeavors. So you hear about them more. Bring these people to silicon valley and they are in start ups and/or making money.

  59. Russia has its own education crisis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you look at the PISA rankings of countries by educational attainment the US beats Russia handily in every measure. In the provinces Russia's education system has been crumbling for a long time and you have to question even the official literacy rate because out the tundra and in places like Chechnya/Dagestan the kids are NOT learning to read and the stats are garbage. Now in Moscow and the core cities things are very different but even there things are not what they were in Soviet times. The Russians are still holding their own in the Comp Sci Olympiad but they have been getting destroyed in the physics and math Olympiads by US and Chinese teams for 2 decades now. They are usually stuck in third or fourth of even fifth place which is still respectable but in Soviet times someone would have been sent to the Gulag for a 4th place showing.

  60. Re:Because Putin has the right idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Uhuh...

  61. Re:Because Putin has the right idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    While russians are busy hacking, americans are busy scheduling committees to decide on what gender options should be available on a signup form.

    Which do you think is likely to result in a safer, more prosperous society?

    Also, you're a fucking cunt.

  62. Re: Also in the US the good hackers are often legi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yay police state!

  63. Re:Their math education was superior for generatio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That was true in the Soviet system.

    However, the country's education system went to hell in the 1990's.

    https://www.timeshighereducation.com/features/russias-universities-rebuilding-collapsed-stars/2018006.article

    This article is about the university system, but the school system hasn't fared well either.

  64. Re: Because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Only in European servers

  65. Re:Their math education was superior for generatio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To teach in Russia you also need a degree in 'Education'. There is probably a huge difference in curriculum for that degree though. That is not the point though. Historically, despite that it was never high paid, the role of the teacher was highly respected in the Russian society. So, people who went into the education not for money, secure jobs, good benefits, etc. It was because they wanted to be a teacher and liked teaching the kids.

        Also, for a long time, Soviet Union had to rely on domestically produced talent. Unlike the US that vacuumed smart people from all over the world and never really needed decent K-12 education, Soviet Union was forced to eat it's own dog food in education . Bad K-12 (1-10), means bad university students, means bad engineers.Whatever you might think of the party leadership, the society got unshackled from the religion and was dreaming of the great future which would be impossible without lots of smart people.

      The free, state-wide, compulsory education had a unified integrated curriculum, which covered all subjects and grade levels. There was the same scope and sequence in the whole country, so you can move across the country and resume education exactly where you left off. The same textbooks, uniforms and even supporting materials in the classroom would be the same. The whole curriculum was incremental and built on the concepts you already know. Nobody would study fractions for several years in a row like in US. No time wasted on reteaching it either because teacher in US never sure what their kids are supposed to know. You would learn them once and then move on to naturally using them in the problems related to some other topic. There was a big emphasis on memorization. Songs, poetry, formulas, numbers, names, historic and geographical facts, mathematical proofs. Kids were trained to remember lots of stuff from the early childhood. In the large cities there were specialized schools for the advanced kids (or kids of influential parents, yes corruption have always existed in Russia) which would have even more stuff added to that curriculum. The education system in Russia now is not what it used to be though. It foolishly adopted a lot of the dumb american things.

    The best strategic defense against Russian hackers is:
    1. Less animosity towards Russia. The level of the current Russian hysteria in media is almost at the level of Red Scare in 50s. Stop feeding anti western sentiment in Russia with all this crap. BTW, the sanctions hurt Putin and his friends a lot less than regular people and guess what, they blame US and not Putin for that.
    2. More legitimate software development jobs in Russia. Yes, some companies are doing outsourcing in Russia, but together with the above will significantly help reduce amount of talent available in the underground economy. Russia is more expensive than India but ROI is probably higher as well.

    On other hand, there is a lot of money can be made on the fear and war mongering as well. Unfortunately, this seems to be the route US is taking.

  66. Math education in Russia is much stronger. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I came to US when I was 19, shortly after graduation from a Soviet high school. I skipped SAT. SAT2 Math was a joke, at the level of a Russian middle school at best. College Calculus 1 and 2, as well as 3 semesters of Physics and 2 semesters of Chemistry were already covered at my high school. We did not have a silly subject like "Science". Teachers had no issue dishing out 'C's to the majority of students so there was an opportunity to learn for those who wanted to raise above the lowest common denominator.
    Now I am facing the problem of educating my own children, and it is difficult to push them beyond what they are taught at school because of simple time/availability constraints.

  67. Donno about teaching computer science by bezpredel6 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I am a product of post-soviet education of past 20-30 years, from a reasonably large city, and I can tell you that my generation (from which a lot of those hackers seem to come) was not "taught" any computer science, or tested on it, not on highschool, and certainly not in elementary school. Whatever my friends and I have learned was from playing with things on our own. The educational system, however, did provide us with very solid math foundation, geared towards multi-step problem solving, logic, and at least some critical thinking. In my opinion, the abundance of russian hackers is due two a combination of lack of consequences and lack of other as-lucrative economic opportunities. In US, one could easily end up in a world of legal trouble for experimenting with hacking. In post-soviet space, the worst that can happen is one would have to share profits with some thugs (from the government or otherwise).

    1. Re:Donno about teaching computer science by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      And in the US there are more economic opportunities for plumbers and pipe-fitters than in IT. We should be asking why the US has so few hackers, not what Russia has so many.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  68. Re: Because by aliquis · · Score: 1

    Those words are common enough they are likely spoken by hundred(s) million more people than the rest of the Russian language =P

  69. Re:Because Putin has the right idea by shaitand · · Score: 1

    "Yes, because the extreme minority of transsexuals is the deciding factor here, not the fact that America denies basic science and shifts all the money towards useless managers."

    I think the issue is that transsexuals and all things concerning them is an issue that impacts few enough people to effectively amount to statistical noise and those in power keep us so busy talking about issues like this and dumbing down our education.

    If they didn't keep us divided and uneducated someone might realize that almost all of the problems shared by 99.99% of our population could be solved or improved by exercising imminent domain on the half of nations wealth being siphoned off by just 0.01% of our population. Best of all the group negatively impacted is smaller with a much smaller individual impact than the disruptions caused by that group each day. It's the easiest lesser of evils decisions you will ever make and the best choice both for personal and community interests for 99.99% of us. Hell, the worst you are doing to any of them is making a handful of people who have had every advantage in terms of education get jobs and join the working class.

  70. Re:Because Putin has the right idea by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

    I think more resources are being wasted on scaring people that transsexuals are going to rape their daughters in bathrooms or whatever made up threat they use to distract the unwashed masses while they steal money from us.

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  71. Re:Because Putin has the right idea by king+neckbeard · · Score: 0

    The main reason there's a need for that is because conservatives are scaremongering. The Dems certainly use that as a distraction from more pressing issues, but the GOP makes it somewhat necessary.

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  72. Re:They don't have a certain problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't have time for that. My Dad and I are too busy fucking our sister.

  73. Re:Their math education was superior for generatio by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 1

    And it is a shitshow, one so bad that a province once known for having some of the top students in north america for math have lost it in a decade.

    They claim in the article that reading scores are improving while math scores decline, but if that article is any indication, writing scores are also a total shitshow. It repeatedly plagiarizes sentences from scientists word for word, then proceeds to repeat the exact same sentence, but attributes it as a quote the second time. It natters on about correlation and causation, while attributing the old saw to "good math teachers". Its attempt to embed a hyperlink is laughably bad, with line breaks on both sides of it, leaving a comma dangling. And it manages to misspell "minister" in the second to last paragraph.

    Standards are falling everywhere I guess.

  74. Another baseless "comparison". by sethstorm · · Score: 1

    If there's an answer, it's not with the education system. It's with the law.

    Given that tests do not control for admission criteria (US having tierless secondary/tertiary, Russia/China having highly rigid tiering), there can be no comparison on educational systems.

    They could try again when they factor that and population size out, but it will favor the US a bit too much for them.

    A more likely case is that Russia & China have lax enforcement - especially on foreign targets. Another factor is the law of large numbers, something also not in the US's favor.

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