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Young Men Are Working Less. Some Economists Think It's Because They're Home Playing Video Games. (nytimes.com)
Video games are instrumental in understanding why younger men are working fewer hours, according to a paper published Monday by the National Bureau of Economic Research. From an article: By 2015, American men 31 to 55 were working about 163 fewer hours a year than that same age group did in 2000. Men 21 to 30 were working 203 fewer hours a year. One puzzle is why the working hours for young men fell so much more than those of their older counterparts. The gap between the two groups grew by about 40 hours a year, or a full workweek on average. Other experts have pointed to a host of reasons -- globalization, technological change, the shift to service work -- that employers may not be hiring young men. Instead of looking at why employers don't want young men, this group of economists considered a different question: Why don't young men want to work? Economists Erik Hurst and his colleagues estimate that, since 2004, video games have been responsible for reducing the amount of work that young men do by 15 to 30 hours over the course of a year (syndicated source). Using the recession as a natural experiment, the authors studied how people who suddenly found themselves with extra time spent their leisure hours, then estimated how increases in video game time affected work. Between 2004 and 2015, young men's leisure time grew by 2.3 hours a week. A majority of that increase -- 60 percent -- was spent playing video games, according to government time use surveys. In contrast, young women's leisure time grew by 1.4 hours a week. A negligible amount of that extra time was spent on video games. Likewise for older men and older women: Neither group reported having spent any meaningful extra free time playing video games.
It couldn't be that it's harder to find full-time jobs or that the full-time jobs keep having fewer and fewer hours (36.5 hours was the average full-time job last I saw.)
But no, we're all at home playing video games. I wish I had gotten that memo!
Why don't young men want to work?
They've made a BIG assumption there. They skipped the important bit about why they aren't hiring and jumped straight to "let's blame them with what they are spending their time on," which is a really shitty thing to do.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
While the article specifically suggests video games, I'd suggest it's a broader dimension of work-life balance. I think there's been a culture shift that killing yourself for your job isn't worth it, particularly when employers are showing less and less loyalty to their employees than in previous generations. Couple that with the idea that people just can't get ahead, be it because of debt from education, etc, and who's going to bust their hump like Grandpa did for 30 years? When the option to work less, enjoy more leisure time, and defer the costs of living to your credit cards is so appealing, is it any wonder that a trend of working less is emerging? Video games just happen to be the entertainment channel of choice.
Could it be that "young" men just saw the prior generation(s) go through massive lay off's, lost their houses, their life savings and decided, "screw this, if the reward can be taken away like that, why the F should I work so hard?"
Really IMHO American corporations have themselves to blame for this. They have done a very good job of removing any kind of job security, chased profits for the sake of chasing profits, off-shored, out-sourced, missed en masse why claiming it was "necessary". Yeah I get it.
They listened to the greybeards talking about the 50-60 hours weeks they worked when they were young, and now see how the greybeards get kicked to the curb. They smartened up, they know there's no real reward for busting your ass for a company.
They look into the past and see the amount of time people worked.- Back when working a lot afforded you a house, a car, and you could support your family on single income.
Now you work for a fraction of the price, barely make ends meet, while putting in a shit ton of hours.
You can't afford a vacation, you have to rent places that can be questionable, your vehicle is falling the fuck apart.
You can mostly work and give that money to someone else just for the option to live under a shelter, have food and water, clothes, and transportation to work.
Who the fuck wants to work for that reason? Like fuck off.
The unemployment rates for 20-25 year olds is twice that of the other age groups. Males being the worst off group.
Source:
https://www.bls.gov/web/empsit...
Fewer young men are becoming fathers and being forced into the workforce at an early age, due to improved birth control and information.
people are not working due to many factors the current state of the workforce simply not hiring or paying way to little and demanding you work like a slave. people are growing tired of it and simply cutting the crap out of there lives so they can work less and enjoy life..its a proven fact if employers started paying decent wages there employers would be insanely loyal and do there jobs well but they dont give a shit about that only how to dubble there profits every year then cry people hate there jobs and work as little as they can.playing games is not a factor hear its just something they can try and pass the blame on.
If the senior architects can't take a vacation I think the senior architects have some architecting to do.
It's not so much "we're at home playing video games!"
But more like companies who have started reducing the work week from 40 hours to 35~38 hours a week. By cutting that extra hour or two each week, they figure they can save a lot of money in the long run.
Heck, many companies, especially in retail, mainly only hire part timers at 20 to 25 hours a week, because they don't want to provide them with health care or other benefits.
So before blaming the workers, look the other side for a change.
A little title inflation going on?
Take a 'Bundy vacation' in the office. Stop working. Wear Hawaiian shirts for a week. Say 'aloha' to everyone. Believe it, you're at a luau! Have your staff instruct _everybody_ to humor you, you're 'architects'...Whoever 'they' are, 'they' will give you some time off.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Yet another crime to lay at the feet of the evils of SEX EDUCATION!
why come it takes me over 30 minutes to scrounge together a lobby in DOOM during normal working hours?
Yeah, let blame video games rather than a decade of economic stagnation that has left a generation that feel they can't even aspire to the things their parents took for granted would be attainable.
Very funny.
I did something like that after going four years without a single day off. I had lost nearly ten weeks in vacation time, so I brought in an airmatttess and started closing my office door and taking naps. HR finally got the point.
We see a lot of these articles lately.
The most discouraging part is that the majority of the pieces aren't worrying about the lack of upward mobility, stagnant and negative wage growth, increase in male suicide and mental issues, lack of roles in current society for 50% or so of guys, etc.
No. The true calamity is, instead, the dearth of marriageable men for the many educated and 30+ women who now cannot find a good man to marry. Of course, what this really means is that women, now making just as much as men (if not more when single) refuse to marry men with lower incomes and / or educations than themselves.
As for myself in my late 30's, I don't have a problem with finding a good and somewhat stable job and income. My problem is that, after seeing numerous older relatives and now friends torn apart by the family court system during a divorce, I have little interest in marrying a 35-40 year old women who just realized, 15 or so years of having fun and finding herself, that she does, in fact, want the kids and family package she was promised. Unfortunately, most of these women are only looking for a guy with enough cash to pay for it all - something increasingly overpriced (houses, weddings, diamonds, kids) in most areas of the US these days.
So it turns out, I don't really need to spend very much money as a single guy. Without the kids and mortgage and all the rest, it turns out most guys don't really need much money (women spend approximately 80% of discretionary income - that's why advertisements are targeted to them and not single guys). So no need to continue slaving away at the office for the promise of mgmt. or any piece of the profits - the Boomers are still sucking off all the meat, and will be 'till they're last breath. And for me, that means when I'm in my 50s or so, and won't care anyway.
The people like these researchers see young men not as people, but merely as tools that exist to serve their ends.
Thus the researchers see any time young men spend on things that interest them rather than "being productive" as time being "stolen" from the society that owns them.
aren't going to catch themselves!
I don't think it's that fewer young men are failing to become fathers, it's that fewer young men are failing to become married. There are a lot of single mothers that simply decide to live off the "generosity" of the government instead of marrying the fathers of their children. Without the incentive to provide for a family young men will choose to continue living the life much like they did in their teens. An extended adolescence if you will.
Also, women have been getting encouragement to join the workforce instead of raising their children. A young married couple where both work will drop the kids off at a day care and then both take off at the same time to pick up the kids and be home for supper. In a household where only the husband works the mother will care for the children and household, which means the husband is motivated to work harder and does not see the same pressure to leave work. There is still the desire to be home for supper, which is flexible, but not when the daycare closes, which is not.
I know couples with multiple children and both work. Both will have to leave work so that one can get the older kid(s) from school while the other gets the younger one(s) from daycare. If there are three children then this can go on for some time.
Certainly the improvements in birth control has delayed the need for men to provide for a family but I believe there is more to it than that.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
Most of the comments are going to be about the lack of jobs, roles, and status most young men in America are now seeing. And this is probably the majority of the reason for men checking out.
But as a single guy is his prime (mid 30s) who is able to find well paying jobs and earn a good living, I'll tell you why I'm finding less and less reason to give a shit about my career, money, and status anymore. 2 Reasons:
1. It's apparent that no matter how hard I work and how well I perform, I'm never going to get a decent mgmt position (i.e. share in the profits) of any company because there are way too many older Boomers who are not letting go. Some of them still need the money, others don't, but just aren't ready to retire. Regardless of the reason, I'm stuck in the middle. And if and when my time comes for a senior role, I'll be in my 50's and will care even less than I do now.
2. Marriage and kids are too risky. Besides the absurd cost of houses and children, lack of job stability, and all the rest, I've seen too many male friends and family be destroyed by divorce: Losing their kids, their savings, and freedom for a decade or two (child support and alimony). Half my friends who are still married don't look like they're enjoying it either (though they all love their kids).
Without a mortgage, kids, wedding costs, wife who has a spending addiction, etc - turns out a guy like me doesn't need much money to be content. And since I no longer expect anything for my work, I've decided to not give much, either. Fuck it.
Another reason. A lot of the work I do is bullshit. Fixing things that should have been done properly the first time or doing things which don't need to be completed. There's so much rework due to horrible design, both in the code and in the team. And then they put the people who know all the details of the system onto new projects and drop all the convoluted bugs onto new guys with no training and somehow expect the overall system to improve. The old guys never improve as they never have to deal with the crap they originally designed and the new guys get completely lost and burn out.
Recently senior management has demanded metrics. No explained reason, no clarification, no understanding on what type or how they're going to use them. They just want "metrics". Can we please make sales jobs illegal?
There is no real reward for playing video games either.
Yes, but, in a game, anyone can win and get the hot chick. If you fail, retry as many times as necessary. If you can't beat that game or get bored, you can try another one right away, no hurt feelings.
In real life? not so much.
Some of them do. Ever looked at Kickstarter or Patreon?
I'm playing video games (and doing lots of other things in my spare time) because I'm not stupid enough to waste away my life working, not the other way around.
I wonder if lower marriage rates has anything to do with this. Not being married, having a kid, etc. means less pressure to work and earn as much money as you can. And if people aren't getting married, then there's a chance that this would affect the mood of these men and they would need a vice to fill the void. Video games are easy to access, don't really have any downsides and are completely legal. (I'd wonder if this was just because of the relationship landscape overall, but I don't know if people coupling up is less than it used to be.) The fact that more women than ever are probably working also means there might be less pressure on men to work themselves to death. Two pay checks and gender equality means less necessity for men to be the breadwinner. That said, I'd also put my money on video games being the drug of choice for men to spend their spare time with as opposed to men finding ways to increase their spare time to facilitate their gaming habits. (Not that I wouldn't take a day off from work for a new game now and then.)
If we listen to economists and they come up with stuff this stupid, no wonder the economy is in the crapper!
You have to be dumber than a sack of hammers, or explicitly trolling to put forth an idea as ridiculous as this.
Heck I'm not even one of the offended class here, I'm over 60 and can smell BS when it's this thick.
No jobs, no education, middle class forced into all the entry level retail jobs, what does any one expect?
They're wrong. It's because of easy access to p0rn websites.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have "work" to do.
#DeleteFacebook
Who watches porn for an hour?! You looking for a plot??
[John]
Shit better not happen!
Men who have no skills have all day to knock chicks up are the ones having kids. Whey do you think there are so many single mothers? They are not waiting to get married and have kids like they were years ago, men have wised up. The men who choose to have careers and jobs end up either not having kids, raising a bastard child, or marrying someone younger and having children with her. They are not going to work extra hard just to get taken advantage of women have equal opportunities to support the family too. The options for the partner of the equal status of the American man are gone now. Due to welfare and other items, it actually makes it cost prohibitive for educated men to want to get married and have their own kids. That's some messed up stuff and this is why dudes are playing video games more and leaving women alone and avoiding jobs that don't pay them enough to do better. We need to remove the social norm of the woman having custody, and we also need to remove alimony as a whole. I was really hoping for gay rights for marriage because that also means gay divorces. I know that's one group who would see the bull that alimony and child support is. If the chick spread them to get the kid and then won't let a father who has the means and wants to take care of those children have custody, she can figure it out and work. Men just get taken advantage of when we succeed now. The courts are messed up. The worst person to be in the US right now is a white educated male with a steady job. You're not going to get laid by who you want because you're at work, you're a target for some chick who is looking to gain off you, and everyone is out to claim their card against you because you didn't play a poor me argument in the beginning. So why are these guys going to work hard? There is nothing to motivate them to do more. Women also push little boys down all the time by constantly calling their dad's POS' and stuff, and saying men are the scum. If a dude said that shit though, holy hell would there be a sexual harassment lawsuit happening soon. The double standard is killing men and we're checking out.
I work for a fairly large ISV, and my manager said we should take a 4 day holiday this weekend. Here I am posting on /. during a build. Some people enjoy the work.
It's interesting that just a few hours ago, we had an article asking whether or not it was worth it to put in long hours at a job. I'm sure the video game thing was meant to increase the article's clickbait factor, but there might be something to this.
Back a long time ago from when I started working (so, maybe peaking around the 60s) getting a job with a large US company was about the closest you could come to lifetime employment without earning tenure. I know lots of people from that era who worked from high school to retirement for large manufacturers, AT&T, IBM, etc. There was a degree of loyalty on both sides, employer and employee, that's missing in the modern workforce. Companies hung onto people as long as they could, and barring some major disaster, you could pretty much count on having a job. There was a clear career path internally, such that you always had an income that kept up with your experience. In return, people were expected to give a little more of themselves. I distinctly recall many families being relocated (at company expense) frequently to work on new projects or land promotions. That must have been hard, but it was the price one paid for the employer's loyalty to the employee.
Am I advocating lifetime employment, no layoff rules/policies and more loyalty on both sides of the fence? Yes, I suppose I am. You don't see companies giving a second thought to sending entire technical departments to India to save 25% in absolute labor costs. And for all but the rockstars, you never see companies paying people to move and take on new jobs. I'm well aware that some people are making out quite well in this new system. But, not enough people are benefiting from what should be a broad period of economic recovery. Companies _can_ afford to offer people stability and security; they just choose not to.
If I were a recent grad facing 40+ years of the current situation work/life wise, and saw many examples of people being kicked to the curb years short of retirement, then I might not want to bust my ass so hard.
There are a lot of single mothers
Less now than in the past.
that simply decide to live off the "generosity" of the government
Our state will hunt you down. If you are a baby daddy and mom decides to live off the dole, they will find you. And you will pay.
Have gnu, will travel.
Why are young men working less? Could it be the languishing great recession recovery for the lower class? Reduced hours due to employer health care costs, outsourcing, or automation? Those troubling answers could contradict the narrative of current economic policies so of course video games must be the culprit!
Economists are experts on supply and demand and thus supply findings that benefit the employers of economists. Any economists not contributing to the direct benefit of the institution that employs them would eventually be eliminated due to the same market forces they study.
Employers of economists include finance and consulting businesses, governments, think tanks, and universities. What do all of these institutions have in common? Empowering and enriching corporations of course.
In my opinion most economists are charlatans practicing a form of social studies pseudoscience.
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be-T J
Fucking rubbish article. I've read more interesting phone directories. Hate to use *that* phrase, but I'm not seeing anything close to actual causality here.
Is this their logic?
1) younger men are working fewer hours
2) the drop in young men's hours is more than in old gimmers
3) young men play more videogames than old gimmers
4) Therefore, videogames are causing the drop in hours
I can't see why it isn't equally likely that when you've fuck all to do and no money to spend[1] because you've been made redundant or had your hours cut you play more videogames.
[1] If you already bought the game & hardware it's a sunk cost.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
As a Brit, I think that is insane, I have 5.6 weeks of legally mandated paid leave per year, that is the minimum they are allowed to get away with. My old job gave me 32 days per year, Americans are all bonkers for putting up with the way companies treat you.
Jack Thompson's zombie is on the loose.
Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
You may be in a wheelchair
Mobility scooter for fatsos (dad will build you a ramp out of the daylight basement).
drooling on yourself and shitting in your pants while watching cartoons or Matlock marathons.
Or playing MMORPGs.
The more things change, the more they remain the same.
Have gnu, will travel.
freaking men and their "trying to enjoy their lives"
Selfish assholes.
The Misandry Bubble
Long article, but well worth the read. On this topic, from the section "The Four Horsemen of Male Emancipation", the fourth is "Male Economic Disengagement and Resultant Tax-Base Erosion".
See that "Preview" button?
All these problems are solved by legal 75th trimester abortions.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
I put it down to most companies increasingly blatant exploitation of their employees leading to said employees being less inclined to work long extra hours on demand for nothing in return, not even any credible guarantees of continued employment..
..or maybe it's just to unwind after a day of passive aggressive office politics getting in the way of your productivity.
How come watching TV doesn't get all the hate video games do? Far more people flip on the TV after work.
The plutocracy has gutted our civilization and there is nothing apparent worth working for in line with our historical values.
Rest assured though, they will find something to work for soon, and when they do, the plutocrats are going to burning at the stake.
Men have more free time, video games are a relatively new form of entertainment so of course you can say this extra free time is spent playing video games.
But you could say that same thing of any new thing, like watching YouTube videos. Even household chores probably count since it is becoming less common for women to do everything.
Just pick the thing you want to push your agenda.
So they made an assumption and seemingly tested exclusively against the assumption, attempting to prove it right. Not science.
Allow me to posit an alternative hypothesis ( which is all they really have ); young men are avoiding marriage until later in life and in some case swearing it off entirely. It's well known that marriage, and the inevitable spawn that comes with it, are a major pressure on men to produce; perhaps the toxic mating culture in today's western society is poisoning the well against that well known mechanism. Young men have seen what divorce puts men through and have wisely decided to "Nope" the fuck out of that equation.
That's my hypothesis anyway.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
We are working less because we keep having to point out in such stories that correlation does not equal causation.
That's why,
and I can't say I disagree with the assumptions. What I wonder is where are the conservative, right wing /.tters to defend it? Do they just avoid articles like this one?
/. is so united on this front.
Maybe it's a defensive posture to an attack on our favorite hobby. But I'm used to a few of the libertarian types to offer up something besides "of course they don't want to work, not enough reward". Of course, that's perfectly compatible with their ideals but it doesn't address the elephant in the room, which is young men not working enough to have families. For one thing our economy needs them to grow and take care of the old (or we need to bring immigrants over, e.g. H1-Bs) and for another most folks _want_ to start a family. Maybe us nerds can't because, well, we're nerds, but that doesn't preclude us from wanting too.
Like I said, it's odd that
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
And how many hours a day do you spend here? I see you posting all the time.
I am conservative. You won't find many conservatives supporting studies like this because of the blatant disregard for logic, stats, etc. Political affiliation has nothing to do with despising biased, bullshit studies.
"Like I said, it's odd that /. is so united on this front." United in what? The shared contempt for propaganda?
If you're so valuable, it should be easier for you to negotiate time off.
SCHOOLS ARE FUCKING EXPENSIVE TO BUILD INSTANTLY.
They really shouldn't be. It's just that mounting regulations have turned them into day care centers. For colleges, tuition is artificially inflated thanks to government guaranteed loans.
HOSPITALS ARE FUCKING EXPENSIVE TO BUILD INSTANTLY.
Of course. When there's a glut of insurance pools paying the fees, they'll go up because that's what the market will bear. Making it mandatory (like obamacare does) will help make this worse.
ROADS ARE FUCKING EXPENSIVE TO BUILD INSTANTLY.
They really shouldn't be. If they are, there's bloat somewhere. Find it and eliminate it. Government contracts are almost always way too lucrative, that's why contractors fight over them. It's easy when the bureaucrats know they're spending other people's money.
I will agree on the elders, but as you get older, you believe that all of your life experience trumps people who haven't lived their lives yet. Pity that almost all your experience is in the past and not exactly current to the last 5 years, but hey, you're an elder and elders should be respected for that reason alone, right?
While the young think they know everything. Ignorance is bliss. Remember, the old were once young, too. Many of today's problems are caused by lack of wisdom. Wisdom comes from experience.
Not really. Most people get the crazy need for sex and partying out of their systems by the end of their 20s, even if it continues to be easily accessible. With today's socjus targeting so-called 'toxic masculinity' in most institutional policy, it's rapidly becoming too expensive and risky for the average dude to bother. Games are still fun and far less risky, socially and economically...at least for now.
Our state will hunt you down. If you are a baby daddy and mom decides to live off the dole, they will find you. And you will pay.
This insane attitude is precisely a BIG reason more and more of these young men just opt out of having relationships and/or families altogether. They know the socjus whiteknights (and/or tradcon wannabes) like yourself are drooling at the opportunity to wave those righteous fingers before throwing them in debtor's prison where, ironically, they can't do shit about making money for anyone. Of course, the obviousness of the latter escapes the irrationality of those who imposed such laws in the first place.
Since at least WWII and the rise of "teenagers" there have been an ever increasing number of ways for people to "waste time", and there tends to be more opportunity for younger people to engage in these activities. To claim that video games are somehow different is ludicrous.
This is an example of trolling by academics. They want to pretend that they are relevant so they pick something that they perceive as topical so it will get noticed. If they had said "streaming" instead of "gaming" they would have gotten less attention. Since nobody but other academics, and a few government types pays any attention, the only way they get any press is coming up with crap like this.
Nothing to see here. Move along. (Only this time there is really nothing going on...)
Why is Snark Required?
Employee must have 10 years of industry experience, know at least 23 programming languages and tools, of which only 2 + SQL will be used.
This. I look forward to July every year since my useless coworkers are allowed to take their vacation time. I can get more done with fewer distractions. I work with thirty-eight other programmers, and today there's only two of us in the office since most people took off today since tomorrow is a holiday. It's awesome.
See, now I like it when there's no one else around because I can get away with doing fuck all. Plus, I work in a college and it's a ghost town round here in summers so it's doubleplusgood.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
Well then take some time off idiot. The young ones really don't care how long it's been since you took a holiday or how many hours you can put in a week.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
Just take vacation.
What are they going to do? Fire you?
That might be an improvement.
Didn't you go to High School? Sleeping while sitting up was a Senior level elective.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Of course they are working less. They are fewer opportunities for males to participate in higher education and there are only so many burger flipping jobs available.
"Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen