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iPhones Are Priced 'High in the Extreme' But They're Worth It, Says Apple Co-founder Wozniak (scmp.com)
An anonymous reader shares a report: Apple's iPhone has been losing ground to domestic competitors in China. That is because Chinese smartphone makers offer sophisticated functions at reasonable prices, according to Steve Wozniak, Apple co-founder and one of the pioneers of the personal computer industry. "Here is what I admire about Chinese phones: really good, intelligent decisions about how to lower the cost but keep enough of the functionality in, because I am into products that are good, well designed, nice looking, but at prices that the average person can afford," he said. Still, Wozniak believes the quality of Apple's product makes it worth the high price tag. "In life I don't believe in quantity as much as I do in quality. So you may not have the hugest share in the market or be the No 1, but you should have the best product you can possibly build and Apple qualifies for that," Wozniak, told reporters after he discussed artificial intelligence with Liu Zihong, chairman and chied executive of Royole, in a technology forum held at Tianan Cyber Park in Dongguan, Guangdong province, on Tuesday. Unlike Chinese smartphone brands that prioritise cost-effectiveness, Apple's popular and more expensive iPhone handsets are still the leader in innovation in certain features despite being more of a "safe product," he said. "Apple products are safe. And Apple's pricing is high in the extreme. It's a safe bet for a lot of people, and when you love Apple you are willing to pay for it," he said.
>> Woz: "Here is what I admire about Chinese phones...(but Apple is more good-er)"
How is an iPhone not a "Chinese phone"?
Most people basically replace their phones every two to three years, so what does it matter if your phone is built to last longer? All that matters on modern phones are features, and on that front Apple tends to lag a bit.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
*blink* hahahahahaha
I mean, why not just come out and say you're appealing to conspicuous consumption so the more you charge, the more loyal your customers get?
Amalcolm always takes his meds.
"Buy our expensive car. It's worth it." - Ferrari
"Buy our expensive iPhone. It's worth it." - Apple
"Buy our expensive mansion. It's worth it." - Some real estate asshole
"Buy our expensive __________. It's worth it." - Company/Person that makes the product.
When the Apple iPhone was terrible at making phone calls. Thankfully, nowadays nobody uses iPhones for that purpose anymore, so it doesn't really matter.
I pull out my iPhone when I want to impress someone, but it doesn't actually have a SIM in it. I use an Android phone to communicate with people.
Woz may have gotten screwed by Apple, but he's still worth somewhere ~$100M. He's not going to be price sensitive about a damn pocket computer.
Those of us that live in the real world have to realistically weigh such tradeoffs and decide what we want to spend our pennies on.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Like removing user replaceable batteries and removing headphone jacks and not including features.
Yeah, the only difference between Apple and landfill is the price tag. They led the race to the bottom, and now my 4+ year old phone is probably the last phone I will own due to their "innovations."
Samsung S5 - replaceable battery / rear case. Wireless charging. Waterproof. OLED display. Lineage OS support (think free as in speech).
--WooooHoooo--
Your IQ is Schwifty-five
It's easy to under price the competition when they're doing your R&D FOR YOU!
I anticipate a serious, informative and insightful discussion on not just the merits of the iphone, but about the general concepts of value and how it relates to personal preferences and requirements.
Please? Maybe?
We don't all replace a perfectly working gadget every few years just for shiny shiny!, not just because of the monetary cost but because of the ethics and enviromental costs. So some of us do care that they're built to last.
Yep, all I want is a phone that can last for 5 years. I have a smart phone for work and that is for email and the IM app that we use. I rather spend $600 on a smart phone that will last for 5 years, and that is not just an issue with the phone's hardware but having an easy to replace battery and a frame that isn't going to break if it is dropped. I know I can get a case for a phone but I rather have a smart phone that is a little bit more bulky than a slim phone that needs a massive case to protect it from a butterfly hitting it.
Nobody in here has gotten schwifty in decades.
Apple doesn't have quality either.
And since you can't replace the battery, it will last 3 years tops.
What about rickety-wrecked?
Just a few of my ideas for this discussion.
Three years top, uh? That doesn't explain my iPhone 4.
#DeleteFacebook
My Android phones last just fine. This is just another bit of bogus nonsense from the Apple cult.
The real question is how long these phones will be supported and what will happen to them once they are force upgraded to a new OS version. Will they still be useful then?
Apple is very much a mixed bag when it comes to product longevity in real live.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Funny my iPhone 4s (on iOS 7.1.2) is still running; I get about 7hrs from the battery under light use.
This is just another bit of bogus nonsense from the Apple cult.
Apple didn't invent planned obsolescence.
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
thank you for your useful anecdote
love is just extroverted narcissism
For iPhones (and Galaxy / Pixel) quality has more to do with features and capabilities than it does long lasting craftsmanship. Not many people claim high end phones are made of parts which will last longer than cheaper phones, they claim they have better quality cameras / larger screens / better resolution / faster processors / etc.
I would be very surprised if cheaper phones didn't have a much longer shelf life than high end phones. They are not cramming as much processing power into such a small mobile device so they are probably more reliable on average.
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
I sit behind a computer all day and need very little from a cell phone. How would this be a good value for me?
love is just extroverted narcissism
15 years ago. This place is a SJW moron habitat now.
Do new iPhones have removable batteries, SD card slots, and ear phone jacks? If not they really aren't worth the price Apple charges for them.
And for how long did it run when it was brand new? :)
https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/i...
With iOS 11 Apple is leaving Ipad 2 (2011), iPhone 5(2012), 5c (2013), iPod 5th gen (2012)devices unsupported. The minimum time is about 3.75 years and the max nearly 6 between market introduction and unsupported. However, new iPhone buyers probably go 2.5-3.5 years between new and unsupported. That's really not much better in terms of obsolescence than cheap Chinese android phones.
Their screens are almost designed to break, because of this "build it as thin as possible" phenomenon, completely disregarding the fact the materials need to be more ridgid to help keep the glass from breaking when dropped.
vos nescitis quicquam, nec cogitatis quia expedit nobis ut unus moriatur homo pro populo et non tota gens pereat.
Apple pro dicks are supper. This was dick potatoes you sing Siri!
"Liberalism is a very noble idea, currently controlled by some very bad people. Be sure you do not get the two confused.
So your phone has the most recent Android safe from the currently known crop of android exploits? That puts you in the tiny minority of android owners.
The vast majority of Android owners need to upgrade their phones every year or two just to be able to get more recent updates given how fast so many android makers drop support of their phones.
Apple a mixed bag? Your ignorance is bliss apparently. iPhone owners get a few years more safe use from their phones as all phones newer than the 5s (sold since Sept2013) can use the latest iOS 11 & most do, having been updated since Apple made iOS 11 available in June.
It doesn't mean that old phones can't soldier on for years and years afterwards, just not safely.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
I've owned several different versions of the iPhone in the past and really enjoyed using the product. However, having a user-friendly product doesn't necessarily make them the best in terms of fulfilling customer needs. If you break it down to simplest form, what Customers are looking for is a device that can place/receive calls and text messages. Internet capability and running apps being secondary.
Since Apple has started re-engineering its products to be disposable it has stopped fulfilling my two most basic needs. This was a deal breaker for me. My last 3 iPhone's did not survive past a little over a year. Each of them running into different problems such as the screen shattering, battery died without ability to replace, etc... If you look at the older iPhone such as version 3 you will notice a huge decline in quality since. This is largely due to apple's decision to favor profit over durability and in my opinion will be their biggest downfall.
Eventually Customers will get tired of paying the huge price tag for their products and move on to other products with a longer lifespan. While many companies have adopted the business model of planned obsolescence I have started purchasing devices that last significantly longer with the option of replacing parts as they fail. My current phone is going on 5+ years now and handles every use case I have. While the micro-USB charging port has died after 3 years, I was able to continue using the device by swapping batteries with an external charging station.
This will almost guarantee that I can continue using my mobile device for another 5+ years and the cost savings is well worth it. What would really make me reconsider Apple is if they developed a mobile phone with an unlimited warranty/leasing option. I would gladly pay to lease it if the cost/savings was justified over a span of 5-10 years. For example, $40-45/year. This would require that they focus on making their products extremely durable and easily repairable, otherwise they would lose money.
You're no true Scotsman!
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
I don't tend to change phones very often...
My first smart phone was the iPhone 3GS.
I kept that till I upgraded it to the iPhone 6SPlus....if that gives you any indication how long they will last and be useful....
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
You don't, I don't, but we don't count. The majority out there does just that, so why bother building a cellphone that lasts? Yes, the 1% of people who actually care will be pissed, but they, too, will just buy a new cellphone. They'll just mutter profanities towards the manufacturer of their current phone while they buy a phone from the manufacturer they muttered profanities at 2 years ago when they bought the phone they are tossing now, while the rest of the people squeal "ohhh shiny!" while buying whatever phone has the latest bling.
In the end, we all buy. And that's all that counts to the makers of those phones.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
If hardware is the only thing you care about, and if price doesn't matter, then Apple's products are decent. Not particularly good but not particularly bad either (on average; obviously some people do care about the interfaces, so they get lots of flack over the lack of audio out, the weird non-standard cable, etc). It's not exciting for most people, but decent enough that it's not surprising that the iPhone would have at least some fans.
If you care about software at all, even slightly, the iPhone is a worthless piece of junk that makes the average Microsoft product look like a shining golden masterpiece.
A computer should serve its owner, all other priorities rescinded absolutely. And the iPhone is not made to serve its owner/user. The owner/user is just another adversary that it thinks it needs to protect its true master, Apple, from.
Only someone who aspires to become a slave would ever consent to using one. Every passing second that it's in your hand, is a burning insult to humanist values.
Thus, no "computer dude" would ever accept an iPhone, unless to him, computers are totally about hardware and you never actually run anything on them. It's hardware purely for show, not to be actually used. Woz is exposing a bad attitude here. This definitely isn't his shining moment.
No, they just patented it.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Really? Apple changed enough in its hardware in 6 years that an OS doesn't run on it anymore?
Who'd have thought?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I can get 7 days of heavy use from my Nokia 7110...
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I replace my phone when I can no longer repair it, my current one is 7 years old and still going strong. :-(
Have to admit I am running out of space though
There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
Might be that some people aren't like most people. IMHO a computer that lasts only 2 years is a ripoff. Apple's battery is intended to last those 2 years and anything else is a bonus, so I think Woz's point is that if you're not obsessed with quality, it's totally good enough, "safe."
(If you're not the kind of person who is always replacing stuff, then you're probably going with a better phone, since Apple's lineup currently doesn't include any good ones. But that's not who Woz is trying to persuade here. For the other 70%, the iPhone is good enough, he's saying.)
...from the show that makes South Park look like Shakespeare.
Woz,
How is that Chinese MFG working out when they use Apple designs and parts to build the competition?
You saved a few bucks on assembly, and gave the keys to the kingdom to the Chinese.
When they put out new phones with the features you designed BEFORE YOU, will you then see the error of your ways?
Stop censoring comments!!!!!!!!!!
The vast majority of Android owners need to upgrade their phones every year or two just to be able to get more recent updates given how fast so many android makers drop support of their phones.
It's not really that fast in most cases. My nearly three-year old, $100 (when new) LG phone still gets updates (oh and it has a replaceable battery and micro SD slot). But it doesn't matter. The real way that people with Android get owned is by installing shady apps, some from Google Play, and blindly agreeing to the over-intrusive permissions.
The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
I think it's comedic how people constantly try to bait Woz to say something bad about Apple. Hello, he is always gonna love Apple that's his baby. Even if your kid gets into drugs and robs a bunch of old ladies, you are still gonna say your kid is a good kid. It's possibly even rude/disrespectful to ask the guy. If you go up to a mother and ask "why is your baby ugly?" isn't that mean?
Plus it's kind of true most of the Chinese phones aren't bringing anything to the table besides cost reduction by removing features.
I'd rather pay 1/3rd the price for a better spec phone, and then replace it after two years when the OS updates stop coming. I could install LegacyOS if I wanted more life out of it, but I'd rather give it to someone else and get a new one for myself.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Meh. The iPhones I've owned have had better shelf life than a lot of crap I'm forced to buy. They're neither the worst nor the best. Treating them either way is for zealots.
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
No, they're just continuously improving on it.
They didn't, but you have to admit, with the iPhone they really did Lead The Way.
There was a period when most phones, even Apple's, were pretty good hardware. They were expected to outlast the battery and you would probably change it at least once. Apple was one of the first to have the "courage" to use a cost-reduced integrated battery design, which of course everyone, even companies that previously had a reputation for quality (e.g. Samsung) had to copy.
If Apple hadn't sucked, lots of other phones wouldn't suck yet either. They made suckiness accepted, and if you listen to some people, they even made suckiness become a good thing.
That said, I do hold accountable the manufacturers who mysterious felt they had to copy Apple. My current 3-year-old Samsung phone (S4) is definitely my last Samsung phone, ever. No more money for you, Samsung, unless you decide to stop copying Apple and go back to making quality hardware.
Unsupported is pretty irrelevant.
My iPad 2 and iPhone 4S are probably 7 or 8 years old and run just fine.
And for my own reasons I have iOS 7 on my iPad and if I'm not mistaken iOS 6 on my iPhone.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
I've used both Android and iPhone, and I found the iPhone just "cleaner" and more straight-forward. Apple controls the user experience carefully, and refuses most junk and clutter.
It may not be that Android is "bad" per se, but various phone vendors either don't give enough thought to a clean UI, and/or put junkware and play games to get you to buy their crap. It's more wild-west in flavor. On the upside, Android may have more potential options and shortcuts if you fiddle and dig enough.
It's much like the old Mac vs. Windows debate: Mac is easier to "just use" out of the box, while Windows is less expensive and has more potential software, but needs more babysitting of the machine to do it and keep running, and UI design that sometimes makes you cringe. Google is the new Microsoft, for good or bad.
Table-ized A.I.
Those with children pass their old phones to their kids. Extremely common in my hallway. Not saying I think a phone that costs as much as a nice PC is fair at all, but my company buys me my iPhone so... yeah, my kids get old iPhones.
iPhones are NOT expensive... if you don't upgrade during every cycle. An iPhone 5c still runs just fine right now. There has been no change to internet browsing, text messaging, and phone calls that make it necessary to upgrade the 5c.
However, if you fancy yourself a photographer and thus need the best iPhone for the best camera. OK.
If you're a serious mobile gamer and need the best graphics and a phablet screen. OK
But, similarly, you need to understand that you're trying to get multiple high-performance devices squeezed into one-- and that's going to cost if it's the best on the market.
So it's not really, "This is too expensive" but instead "Is it really worth it to me at this price?".
It can make phone calls, text, ... and that's all I need a phone to do. The battery lasts for over a week. If it gets stolen I'm out $20. Had it for two years now and it will probably last another 5.
Hopefully, this will clarify what the general public sees in Apple products...
As Slashdotters, we're used to telling computers "do what I say". If you've ever had a Google search that came back ignoring a critical part of a search term and having gotten mad at it for doing so, it's because Google didn't do what you said. We are the types of people who have unusual requests and explicit commands that we expect our computers to honor. Complex routing and firewall rules, always clicking "custom" when installing software, selecting which software updates get applied, and the inherent nature of software development - these are all the result of a "do what I say" mentality...and it's why we're very, very good at what we do - we know what to say.
The general public does not have this.
The general public knows they want the data on their phone to survive if the hardware doesn't. Do most think through it enough to consider which server it should live on, or how to ensure text messages are properly backed up (and in what format), or whether a TLA can access that data without their knowledge? If prompted, maybe, but for 99.9999% of iPhone users, the sequence of "having their phone fall from a roller coaster", "having Apple replace that phone with a new one", and "all the pictures of their kids being where they were before" is a far superior experience that requires no thought or action from the user; "make sure my data is safe" is a "do what I mean" command that iCloud basically provides far better than some amalgam of what Google offers - Google will back up your text messages, but gets inconsistent with MMS if Verizon is handling text messages with their proprietary app that comes standard on Android, as one example.
Asking a friend how to do something on an iPhone, even if they're not exactly the same model, is pretty much guaranteed to work consistently. Go ahead and *try* walking someone through setting up an e-mail account on an Android phone. Which Android version? Which carrier? Motorola launcher, Samsung launcher, HTC launcher? Are they using a third party mail client? Are they doing so without knowing it, since later versions of Android tend to handle Exchange through the Gmail app? While a somewhat-informed, not-IT person can walk another user through adding an e-mail account on an iPhone, it's all but hopeless on Android. Rinse and repeat for many tasks, and it's abundantly clear why Apple has a far greater grasp on the social aspect of owning an iPhone. Now, don't get me wrong, I very much appreciate the customizability of Android and use it quite extensively. However, it's only useful with the understanding that effectively customizing an Android device requires a "do what I say" mentality.
Finally, let's discuss safety. While sure, I think that the "toxic hellstew" comment is ridiculous, the fact of the matter is that you probably know someone who has called "Microsoft Support" and gotten taken for $400 and likely left a mess for you to clean up. It's a sad reality that such a scam works, but it does. The "do what I say" crowd decries the walled garden because it keeps us in, preventing us from accessing lower level system functions, greater customizations, nontraditional apps (oh ctorrent...), and the principled stance of owning a purchased device. However, the "do what I mean" crowd wants a device where they don't have to worry about something happening that they didn't "mean". The walls on the garden are for their safety, and even though they might disagree with a few aspects of that configuration if pressed, the fact is that an "Apple Support" scam is a nonstarter on the platform and for most iPhone users, that is a fair trade in exchange for low level functions they wouldn't know how to use anyway because they don't know what to "say".
And that, fellow Slashdotters, is why the iPhone remains popular.
The problem with Android phone is the update situation. Depending on your variation you can have no updates from the time you bought the device to just under 2 years of updates. With new devices out there still susceptible to HeartBleed, yeah there is an issue. The best you can do is buy a Nexus/Pixel which will get 2 years of system updates and maybe a total of 3 years of security updates.( https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/4457705 ) Compared to Apple which routinely goes out 4 years and in some cased has supported iDevices for 5 years. (iPhone 5s was launched in 2013 and is scheduled to get iOS 11 which means it will be supported into 2018.The trick will be to see if it gets to September before Apple drops it.) So, yeah. Apple has a track record of longer support.
Now if you are saying that your device will not magically stop working the day after support is dropped (barring coincidence), that is true of any device.
I've been looking around for something to replace my 3yo Android; nothing on the market (iPhone included) is a significant improvement. I've ended up getting a bigger, faster microSD card, because that's all I actually need.
On the other hand, my colleague with an iPhone has to upgrade every two years, because the latest-and-greatest iOS is near impossible to refuse and makes 2yo models run like concussed toddler.
Apple is very much a mixed bag when it comes to product longevity in real live.
You can't just drop a statement like that without backing it up with some evidence. While we can point to a handful of instances where Apple dropped support for things earlier than some people, particularly nerds, would have liked, calling their product longevity a mixed bag is a gross overstatement of the actual problem facing most users, in much the same way that saying "Malware is thousands of times more common on Android than iOS" is a way that the media (and Apple fanboys) like to lie with statistics. Sure, it may be true, but it doesn't reflect the reality of the situation (i.e. that malware isn't really a common problem on either platform).
Certainly when it comes to iPhones, Apple has a rather good track record for product longevity, and it's widely understood that they support old devices with the latest updates for longer than any of their Android counterparts.
For my part, the iPhone 5s I bought in 2013 and still use today as my primary device will be fully supported in iOS 11 that is coming out later this year. Generally speaking, it still runs just as well today as it did on the day I bought it. It's only been in the last few months that I've even started noticing a performance difference between apps on my iPhone and the same apps running on newer devices, but the differences are nowhere near sufficient to warrant an upgrade. The phone still holds enough of a charge that it can (admittedly barely) last from work on Friday to work on Monday without needing a charge over the weekend, so the battery hasn't forced an upgrade, and I don't expect that it will anytime soon.
In fact, I've had the money set aside in my budget since 2015 to buy a new iPhone outright, given that I had anticipated upgrading on the stereotypical two-year cycle, but my iPhone 5s continues to run like a champ, much to my surprise and delight. As such, I've held off upgrading for the last two years, and given the rumors circulating so far and the continued performance from my current device, I expect that I'll do so again this year, meaning that by the time I finally do decide to upgrade, I will have had a fully supported, still-useful iPhone running the latest OS with the latest security updates and the latest features for a period lasting no less than 5-6 years.
My Android phones last just fine.
Define "just fine".
My IPhone can't maintain a WIFI connection at all. My cheap Android phone has not one issue at all.
Caution: Contents under pressure
Because it a phone from 1999 that has a B&W 95x95 display and only supports 14kbps data transfer. I too could get a week on my old Nokia since it wasn't a smart phone. I wonder how long the batteries lasted in my Motorola pager when I had one of those things.
You have shit for brains.
Apple a mixed bag? Your ignorance is bliss apparently. iPhone owners get a few years more safe use from their phones as all phones newer than the 5s (sold since Sept2013) can use the latest iOS 11 & most do, having been updated since Apple made iOS 11 available in June.
Do you know how well a 5s runs OS11? Because I've seen so many iPhones that have been 'upgraded' into an unusable state because they now do everything so slowly. I'm very skeptical about this always-autoupgrade major version thing that Apple does, it's not much use when you no longer can use the damn thing effectively. Possibly we're at a state where old phones are still fast enough, but this has definitely been a problem in the past.
Seriously, who really needs these high end features? I have a $120 Honor 5x. I've had it for about a year and a half. Most people I know send texts, take pictures, use a few relatively "light" applications such as twitter, maybe use the GPS a bit, and make calls. My cheap phone does that fine. Why should I pay an outrageous $700+ price tag for an Apple device when a $120 device will perform the same tasks just fine? Assuming you get a new device every 2 years, over 30 years, that's an extra ~$9000 in after tax money I have to do other things with. People need to stop spending money on stupid crap they don't need and stop whining about being broke!
However, new iPhone buyers probably go 2.5-3.5 years between new and unsupported.
So far as the flagship iPhones go, the iPhone 5 is the only one losing support in iOS 11. It was, as you said, launched in 2012, and it was discontinued a year later in 2013, meaning that by the time iOS 11 launches later this year, every iPhone 5 buyer will have received a minimum of 5 years of support, with people who bought it on launch day receiving 6 years of support. With iOS 11 dropping support for 32-bit processors and the iPhone 5 is on the wrong side of that divide, it's unsurprising that it's being left behind, but it'll be interesting to see whether iOS 12 retains support for the iPhone 5s next year, given that there isn't any obvious hardware divide that would warrant dropping support for that model.
As for the 5c, it certainly is on the low side of support. In fact, it's even worse than you suggested, given that Apple was still dumping...err...making them available for sale in some markets (e.g. India) as late as early 2016. Even so, the iPhone 5c has always been an outlier. It was billed as a lower-cost alternative to the flagship iPhone lines, and it sold poorly enough that Apple never made another in that line, so it's doubtful the 5c would affect the numbers that much. But yes, the iPhone 5c received remarkably poor support, ranging from 1.5-4 years, depending on when purchased.
In general, however, iPhones receive support far in excess of "cheap Chinese android phones".
The adoption rates of Android updates (that I don't have the time to track down but that you can if you need confirmation) begs to differ.
Am I saying that there aren't Android vendors that do a better job than most giving exceptions like yours and indeed more /. posters than is the norm? No.
Am I saying that the the use of outdated Android versions is how most android owners get owned? Nope, the low hanging fruit of gullible users is clearly the major vector at present but much like for Wannacry & Petya for Windows sooner or later those Android vulnerabilities are going to get packaged and used & smart people make sure that they're as protected as they can.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
My old 5s is now my wife's so yeah, I do. It's not as fast as my 7+ but is still a big step up from the even older 4S she was using previously - besides which she mostly uses it for phone/facetime so it's _more_ than fast enough for her.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
My current 3-year-old Samsung phone (S4) is definitely my last Samsung phone, ever. No more money for you, Samsung, unless you decide to stop copying Apple and go back to making quality hardware.
They did: they made the Galaxy S5. I had an S4 before, and now I have an S5, and the S5 is better in every way. I recommend upgrading to that.
(Of course, the S5 is now 3+ years old...)
If the S5 becomes too cumbersome to use because of lack of updates or whatever, I'm really not sure what to upgrade to next, because everything on the market seems to suck now.
Note that even 4/5 years of support is going to be a problem. Let's say you get an iPhone 7S, ten years from now it will likely be useful and fast enough.
I have an acquaintance who has a Vista laptop, I maybe should have to pay a visit to update the thing to either Windows 7 or Linux (let's say Debian 9 since it's very recent, but even that will run out in a few years as well)
The Vista laptop is an extremely powerful machine : it has a Core 2 Duo around 1.8GHz or 2GHZ, 2GB RAM and a hard disk drive.
It got auto-updated for years on and never crashed, but the OS ran out.
If iPhone 5S, 6, 7, 7S run out with no OS replacement this would be a bit disastrous as that represents like a billion powerful enough computers (at least 6S, SE and up, which have 2GB RAM)
Depending on your variation you can have no updates from the time you bought the device to just under 2 years of updates.
Wrong. My Galaxy S5 is over 3 years old now and is still receiving updates.
We don't all
No, but all enough that the alternative market is pretty much non-existent.
We don't all replace a perfectly working gadget every few years just for shiny shiny!, not just because of the monetary cost but because of the ethics and enviromental costs. So some of us do care that they're built to last.
This...
Yeah, quality is worth paying extra for. I guess that means the Irish government does so much more for Apple than the US does.
It's like people have never even used an Apple device before. Where is TheFakeTimCook when you need him. He always shoots down these losers with facts.
Tim we are waiting...
They didn't, but you have to admit, with the iPhone they really did Lead The Way
Except for the part where Apple offers software updates to their phones for far longer than any other major manufacturer.
Good luck finding another major vendor that supports their smartphones for 4 years.
Good point. In Lollipop, Google took the control of the OS out of the phone makers or carriers, and back in-house. I have a Verizon Ellipsis 10 w/ 16GB internal storage & 128GB external storage. I can't upgrade the tablet to Marshmallow, which would allow me to swap the logical internal & external drives, so that I have adequate storage for everything, no matter what.
Longtime android user here...since 2010...when I bought a used HTC G1, rooted it, and installed SuperD.
After purchasing a new HTC One (m7) in 2013 for $700, I quickly realized purchases like that were foolish (red tint camera/overheating, battery swelling, etc.), so I began purchasing phones behind the curve...i.e. after they had been out a while and heavily discounted, the result being a better Android experience at half the price.
However, I recently came across an abandoned (for newer model), busted up iphone5c that I paid $100 to have the screen replaced, and I must say that the iphone hardware is indeed mostly top notch. I loaded the google gmail, voice, and callender apps on the 5c, I do not use ios default apps, and for quality, stability and reliability in a phone, the iphone is difficult to beat. Of course, the ios walled garden is absolute bullshit, but as far as the hardware goes...again, the Apple stuff is premuim.
Knowing that though, only a fool fanboy would pay premium retail prices for *either* apple or android hardware...its just not fucking worth it the majority of the time.
You're not helping. An iOS11 beta was released in June. "Most" are not running iOS 11, and have only updated to iOS 10.3.3, because as non-developers they stay on the release branch of the iOS ecosystem.
You could have made the same point with iOS 10, which is the current release and still supports the iPhone 5 and 5c, without running off into fantasyland and inviting criticism such as this.
Are you kidding me?
"Super-rich dude with vested interest says $1000+ for a fragile piece of spy(hard)ware is worth it."
Yeah. OK Woz. Sure. Say bud, think I can borrow a million bucks from you?
The wireless industry has you all so bamboozled that you are actually discussing the merits of a piece of tech that is designed to fail as fast as possible while locking you into their brand of shit via the proprietary app ecosystem.
I suppose when they collectively realized they had you all brainwashed into thinking their products are something you need, they went ahead and started working on making you think it's worth the crazy money they charge too.
We're talking about disposable tech you re-buy bi-annually for $1000+ that helps you forget how to use your brain, while promoting things like mental laziness, memory loss, social media fuckery, and commercial/domestic spying. Oh, and is made to be as fragile as fucking possible, just in case you happen to have $1000+ before the battery goes shit-house.
I'm not even going to start on the social problems of tech addiction. Just take away a random teenagers smartphone and observe.
Back when phones went for $300 and the internet was only on computers I'd say it was worth it, but even then as a convenient luxury. That was years ago now. Computers are supposed to get cheaper.
You are being ripped off every second of every day, so that advertisers can help rip you off even more tomorrow.
And to think, I used to actually somewhat respect the guy. This just proves he doesn't know what he's talking about, and/or only cares about increasing his stock performance. SAD.
Seriously, though, there's nothing remotely innovative in the Apple product line. He's fooling himself, and his love of centralised control and consumer lock-down is especially disturbing. Chinese companies realized that they had a major trust problem, and I think they're finally starting to address that and are comping out with some really impressive products. I hope they get to the point where they can simply refuse to manufacture phones for all the western brands because they are making as much or more money on their own products.
No, they just patented it.
I wish! Then they'd actively prevent other companies from doing it.
and perfected it
Ooooohweeee Slashdot!
We got a live one over here! What do you think's gonna happen? Will amalcolm realize his mistake? Is he just gonna stay wooshed?
It's "riggity riggity wrecked".
Except your ignoring the fact that these software updates make your older devices run slower ( planned obsolescence again) so your point is invalid.
If you're comparing apples (no pun intended) to apples, the $5 Android phones that the rest of the world uses is not a good way to determine Android update adoption rates. Pick a pool of high-end phones that actually compete with Apple and then we can see if there's a discrepancy. (Too lazy to look, but you seem to have the data...)
Android is like the internal combustion engine of smart phones. Everything has one, but not everything has the best one. The only reason Apple gets a pass is no one but Apple makes iPhones.
Define "runs like a champ".
He's just peddling his wares but if they fix their iTunes so it won't wipe out the HFS+ drive anymore i'm fine.
Also they should tell to the public that QuickTime is worse than JAVA is virtually dead and should never be used for anything at all.
Brain fart. You're entirely correct.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
Well my iPhone SE meant my iPhone 5S went to my wife, the iPhone 4S went to one of the kids and the 3GS is used as a (working) toy for the grandkids.
So yea, we are getting at least 6+ years worth of use out of the iPhone.
Or do you just not understand the difference between design & manufacturing?
In addition to the money Steve has from his Apple years, I can't imagine he's had to buy any Apple products, including phones, in decades. He just needs to log into their employee store, type in his badge number (#1) and place an order for whatever toys he wants at no charge. That probably gets the attention of the clerk who gets on the phone to Cook's secretary who notifies Cook who then delivers said toys directly to Steve's door. When he says that the high price doesn't matter, it's just quid pro quo.
yeah my kitkat samsung still get updates but not OS upgrades. That's the problem.
Ditto. I still use many very old stuff like Casio Data Bank 150 watch, iPhone 4S, VGA, DVI, KVM from Y2K, PS/2, analog speakers, etc.
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
"However, new iPhone buyers probably go 2.5-3.5 years between new and unsupported."
The number is actually about 4.5, which is way better than anything Android.
The vast majority of unit sales for a particular model are in the first year after that model's release. The 5S will run the current OS for at least 5 years from introduction, as did the 5 and the 4S before that. The 5C (which sold in lower volumes), got 4 years.
Ramen to that! I still use a flip phone and my current one is 4 years old.
I did. I wrote two paragraphs doing so. Don't be obtuse.
Do you have any idea how many Windows phone users wish they could get them to run like a concussed toddler you insensitive clod!
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
I use my iPhone considerably and if I want to sell it typically fetches a higher price than similar Androids. Samsung and Sony in Japan can get decent salvage values but iPhones tend to do better. So while there are cheaper Androids after disposing with less salvage values the iPhone value offers more on end of life. Functionality iPhone works well for me.
Great. Another moron who thinks that empirical evidence that contradicts a claim will suddenly be useless if they just throw the word anecdote around.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Holy duck. You make your kids love in a hallway! I would call children's services on your ass if I knew where the damn hallway was located!
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
everything on the market seems to suck now.
^ 100% This.
Most smartphone now
-don't have removable battery (or back-covers that enable battery expansion in case of battery failure)
-don't have sd card (for backups. When the phone mobo dies there is little to no recover unless you use cloud or have an sd card)
-need root to remove / disable bloatware
iPhone also has it's own problem like
-don't have jack (Yes there is an adapter, you might be able to compensate for it)
-never had sd card (when mobo is dead, your only hope is iCloud)
-don't have file manager (coming soon 2017?)
Unsupported is pretty relevant.
We had to support a few iOS product including a first gen iPad.
When the user wanted an updated app or a new app, if the iOS is outdated / unsupported, some apps plainly cannot be installed (popup noting it requires higher iOS version). And we are talking about app that don't have visible functional changes, but only build changes (compiled for the newer iOS).
Apple Update is the pro and con of iPhone. It is the most secured, but you need to be at the front for the newest. It is relevant.
Give it a break and stop chasing the poor iPhone 4s!
#iPhoneLivesMatter
Apple does a nice trick.
If I get android O, I get all of android O. Every android O device will support all the android O features.
If I get "IOS 11", that's when the questions start. "Oh! So do I get this new feature?" "No, only on iPhone 7."
Not really an apples to apples comparison.
Comparatively speaking, both platforms are pretty good in that respect.
You could even have an old android 2.3 device -- That device may not have all the latest bells and whistles, but it isn't the same device it was the day it was released. You've got the latest play store, the latest apps (with a few exceptions depending on API use), if it had the processing power you might barely notice it isn't the latest and greatest.
Behold the power of licensing!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Then let me rephrase it:
For me it is not relevant.
And to publish Apps that run on old 'unsupported' OS you only have to set a check box in the IDE.
I just got an update for 'Thai Dict' on my iPhone running iOS 6 I believe.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
If I get android O, I get all of android O. Every android O device will support all the android O features.
Theoretically? Sure. In practice? Not so much. For both platforms, the chief reason a feature is missing is lack of hardware support. Simple as that.
For instance, full hardware-based disk encryption has been available in Android for years, but it still is only available on devices with the necessary hardware. Similarly, my iPhone 5s lacks Apple Pay because it has an earlier generation Secure Enclave that lacks the capability to authenticate Apple Pay's requests. Reasons of that sort account for the vast majority of missing features, though to a layman on either platform they may seem to be arbitrary cutoffs.
That said, I won't deny that Apple has indeed engaged in arbitrary cutoffs to drive sales of newer devices. I can't think of any examples off the top of my head, but I won't dispute it. Likewise, Apple has locked out features for performance reasons, such as accelerometer-based animations in the UI being considered too taxing on older devices when they were first introduced. Jailbreakers who forced them to be enabled on those older devices quickly found out that their batteries were draining far faster than before.
Even so, those cutoffs are the exception, not the rule, so regardless of which platform you're talking about, the overwhelmingly common reason why features are missing is simply a lack of hardware support. As such, while Apple may be willing to lock out features on older devices, in practice their doing so rarely affects things in a way that differs from how things work with Android.
There's a piece of Samsung, and Microsoft too, in every phone you buy. In fact they even make a few pennies on that box of laundry detergent, and on the ships they build. A diversified portfolio and cross manufacturing makes it almost impossible to avoid Samsung or anybody else you might hate.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
There are two fundamental ways to market and sell a product: "Sells on Value" and "Sell on Price".
The difference is in how you negotiate and sell the product. The former, you never negotiate on price but instead present the value and match it to what the customer really wants. The latter, you drop price as your primary closing technique. The problem with the latter is 1) you crush you margin which for high tech is deadly - margin pays for R&D of your next product, and 2) it's "weak" as a negotiation technique - you aren't strong enough to walk away from the deal.
Many (most?) successful tech companies "Sell on Value". For example, (the original) Hewlett-Packard instruments - always sold at the list price which led to "HP = High Price" but the value was always well worth it. Apple has always followed this example as well (both Steves worked at HP before they founded Apple). It's generally the best way to be successful in tech in the long term.
The integrated circuit industry and the (IBM) PC industry very much has been "Sell on Price". This ONLY works because of Moore's Law and the fast product life cycle which allows you to still charge a premium on the newest generation while driving competition out why dropping price rapidly on the last generation. With the end of Moore's Law and the end of the PC era, this will not work much longer. This is where the Mac, positioned and priced on value, is probably in a more survivable market position.