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Windows 10 Will Cut Off Devices With Older CPUs (pcworld.com)
Reader Baron_Yam shares a PCWorld report: No Windows 10 Creators Update for you, Microsoft says -- at least, not if you happen to be the unlucky owner of certain older Atom-based Windows devices, and other aging models in the future. After stories arose of failed attempts to upgrade such hardware to the Creators Update, Microsoft confirmed late Wednesday that any hardware device that falls out of the manufacturer's support cycle may be ineligible for future Windows 10 updates. In the case of the four "Clover Trail" processors (part of the Cloverview platform) that have fallen into Intel's End of Interactive Support phase, they will be ineligible for the Windows 10 Creators Update, Microsoft confirmed. Instead, they'll simply be offered the Windows 10 Anniversary Update, plus security updates through January, 2023, the end of the original Windows 8.1 support period. The problem, however, is that Microsoft's language opens up the possibility that any unsupported hardware device could be excluded from future Windows 10 updates. "Recognizing that a combination of hardware, driver and firmware support is required to have a good Windows 10 experience, we updated our support lifecycle policy to align with the hardware support period for a given device," Microsoft said in a statement. "If a hardware partner stops supporting a given device or one of its key components and stops providing driver updates, firmware updates, or fixes, it may mean that device will not be able to properly run a future Windows 10 feature update." The reader adds, it's not a case of "feature updates are not recommended and may not work", it's a case of "we will block feature updates to your device".
Can they offer basic video drivers / let people use an video card?
SVGA / visa fall back?
windows server basic video mode?
Where can I get me some of these CPUs? I've been looking for a way to stop Windows 10 updates.
No such thing. Windows has sucked ass since Windows 2000.
> force everyone on to the same version of your OS
> start dropping support for older hardware without iterating the version number
You could have prevented this.
https://debian.org/
I can see video cards that need drivers, but what support does a CPU need to keep functioning with newer versions of Windows?
That's ridiculous, they can't just suddenly pull the
Table-ized A.I.
Linux. Linux. Linux. Linux. Linux. Linux. Linux. Linux. Linux.
Seriously, though: Bite the bullet and put Linux on it. Make the effort to learn how to use a Linux system properly, and you will reap benefits in privacy, security and protecting your identity that far outstrip the effort you put in.
Linux is not perfect, but it's far better than an "operating system" that reports all of your personal information and activities on the Internet just so M$ can make money off you, while still charging you a "subscription" for the privilege of being abused.
They're blocking patches to older OSes if you run them on newer hardware. (http://www.pcworld.com/article/3181814/windows/microsoft-says-its-blocking-windows-7-8-patches-on-latest-amd-intel-chips.html)
The pretext is to ensure better compatibility but it seems a lot more likely this is to ensure that if you're in a Windows environment, you're on an upgrade treadmill.
Update your hardware? Now you have to update your OS. And the hardware update cycle tends to be 3-5 years, whereas keeping an OS for over a decade isn't that uncommon.
To all those older PCs (and their owners) that still do what the owners need them to just fine, but want to keep getting needed security updates, not handing over HD streaming telemetry and everything that happens in their houses, etc...
Welcome to Linux.
For us carnivores, "Sucking the marrow out of life" isn't a transcendentalist philosophy but a practical instruction.
My work is putting Windows 10 into production in September, which is surprising since Windows 8 never made it out testing. With newer hardware only being supported by Windows 10, the powers to be decided to leap into the unknown. That's job security on my end since something will inevitably go wrong.
So Android is trying to *fix* their update problems by trying to better segregate the portions of their platform that are heavily dependent on the specific hardware vendors from the upper application layers. In this way, they can work toward fixing the problem where Android devices are notorious for not being able to take updates, since it's all one big lump today.
Microsoft seems to be going the other direction, having a big monolithic glob of crap, where a hardware vendor dropping out means you suddenly can't get, say, a new version of paint, or a fix for some software bug (they said *security* updates would continue, but you have some crash in some application that isn't exploitable, well tough because the really unrelated graphics driver they want doesn't exist). Even worse because it's all 'Windows 10', so now when something says 'Windows 10' it's really hard to know which 'Windows 10' is really meant.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Hello Microsoft, are you fuck o belly? yea fuck you!
Microsoft confirmed. Instead, they'll simply be offered the Windows 10 Anniversary Update, plus security updates through January, 2023, the end of the original Windows 8.1 support period.
So Microsoft is going to give the Anniversary Update 7 years of security updates, that's great. Now give everybody else the chance to step off the upgrade bandwagon. Seriously it's proven time and time again that they could let you do it and it wouldn't really cost them anything because they're going to make those patches anyway, but they won't.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
It sees that this only demonstrates continued ineptitude, on the part of Microsoft. Besides being just too expensive, now If I use Microshaft products I'm going to be penalized for not jumping on the constant upgrade "band wagon". Seems like reason number 41 to just use Linux, or BSD for everything. I held out long enough for Microsoft, but, now that I'm running all of my "Microsoft" apps on Linux. I don't see any reason to even mention the MS name anymore.
So Microsoft now says the Clover Trails will get security updates till 2023 but no feature or OS improvements. Frankly if this was Windows 7 or 8.1 it would not be a big deal. But running Creator 1703 version of Windows 10 till 2023 seems really bad and Microsoft really just threw these users a stale bone. It was more like OK we will give you security updates for a while now shut up and quit whining.
In the end Microsoft has control of how long they support hardware, so don't think 2023 is written in stone. Especially since most other devices keep moving along with upgrades. Well at least for now, until Microsoft decides Celeron's are not capable or worthy. Or maybe cheap AMD's. I think its pretty clear a device lifespan is not much more then 5 years according to Microsoft. Maybe the Clover trails would be better suited running a Linux desktop?
intels powerVR after they cut off nvidia from atom chipsets. At the same time AMD was all 64 bit! but intel pushed out low end 32 bit only cpus.
Windows10 should be only run in a VM.
Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
Rememebrr, Apple does exactly this.
It's, in a way, the same key mistake they did with windows phone:
- they released WP7, and offered no upgrade path to WP 8, basically rendering obsolete all 7 phones when they released WP8
- they released WP8 and the 8.1 update. They even managed to gain some market share.
- they announced WP10, saying that "all devices running 8 will be updated". They even released betas that were working on the older phones, except...
- on the day of release they dropped support for almost all the phones they sold, breaking the promise to update them and making almost all of the existing OS market share obsolete
- when releasing Windows 10 they were saying that "this is the last Windows ever" promising to finally kill version fragmentation, except with the creators update they didn't update all their phones, dropping the support again and making the last few phones remaining obsolete
- now that they have nothing to kill on the phone side, probably the same executive moved to the pc section...
Good luck with this
https://hardware.slashdot.org/...
Or, more succinctly, you are a goddamn motherfucker tittey sucker two ball bitch!
Yeah, in my arsenal. With TRUMP prez, I am unleashing them all before the world endz!
You can still use Linux with those CPUs.
That is, until systemd decides to cut them off...
auto drive cars may not last 2-3 years when software updates end or when they try bs like to fit super maps 2025 you need to upgrade to an 2TB hdd (dealer install price $500-$1000 (non SSD))
Microsoft is just part of that organism that creates problems so people are forced to keep buying new hardware which does not do any better then the previous hardware you had. A purely economical warfare setup, with the consumer as the victim.
time for better windows ver nameing.
Like your hardware will only work with windows 10.5.X and can't run windows 10.6.X.
Older processor that doesn't lock in windows or allow more spying? Yeah it's gone.
My old Samsung NC10 ran really nicely with the release version of Windows 10, but more features were beginning to creep in and slow things down. It's great to hear that from now on it'll just be security/stability updates, as that's all I want.
Also, everything else about the "Creators'" Update is useless, and I fully anticipate Microsoft continuing to release useless features until Nadella fucks off.
More and more Windows is starting to look like a walled garden, and I've simply stopped caring.
Windows 7 runs everything I need for at least the next 20 years. I'm seriously at the point in my life where I don't want to deal with this upgrade treadmill anymore- I got enough of that from Apple, thank you very much. I've even stopped giving a shit about security- I've got a beefy OpenBSD firewall at the edge of my network, and hourly backups for everything else. Just because the software is old doesn't mean it's any less useful, and I really don't care if I'm not "perfectly secure" and vulnerable to attack by the NSA or some other determined third party.
I've already skipped several major purchases because I simply don't want anything to do with Windows 10. I can't rely on those devices to work on any given day due to the forced updates, and now apparently I can't even rely on the updates themselves depending on whatever magical generation of CPU I've got (the last time I had to deal with anything even remotely CPU related was when MMX came out). Who's to say my Windows 10 box won't auto update itself and then get stuck in a broken configuration because it's no longer supported by MS? It is simply impossible to predict the future reliability of these devices, and as someone who relies on computers to make money, I don't want anything to do with that bullshit. I'll take my chances with older software that already does what I want right now where I can rely on that not to change unless I explicitly change it myself.
Fuck modern day hardware and software. That's all I've got to say about that. I remember the uproar over Palladium back in the day. What we've got now is so much more worse. Why are people putting up with it now? Is it because the idiot masses make up the majority of PC sales and they're too stupid to care as long as they can log into Facebook and fire up Angry Birds?
I run Windows in a virtual machine. It runs better, safer and faster. The simpler the hardware you give windows, the better it runs, and it has no access to my critical files, so they can't be contaminated with windows Malware or DRM [Digital Restrictions Management].
I can change my CPU. WIndows runs on what I want/need it to run on, no questions.
Don't want to activate? Fine, a '30 day' evaluation works for me. Wipe, rinse, repeat.
I bought an i7-4790k right after MS announced they'd force skylake and newer onto their latest windows debacle.
I'll be running windows 7 on it for a long, long time to come. Why would anyone want to run windows 10? It's certainly not for the hybrid interface. Do they like the ads and telemetry or something?
But they won't.
Which brings us to the rub of the nub: Why would anybody still bother to use that crap?
No, not the crappy and backdoored hardware. The software.
I use Linux for the hard stuff, cpu management, memory management, storage, usb, and other advanced chipset features.
I use windows for pretty pictures and pointing and clicking at things, while Linux does the hard driver management.
I present simplified hardware to windows, and it works much better.
There is the occasional windows only crap hardware like cheap printers or wifi dongles, but that is what usb pass-through mode is for.
That's what MS is best at: screwing up its customers. Those of you who are still using Windows because you are locked in, you have my commiserations. The rest, I won't say screw you because you already are.
drop 32 bit mode like server (not 32 bit apps)
On one hand, they are offering security updates through the expected lifetime of the OS that shipped with the devices. So I guess that's reasonable, and it probably avoids potential legal complaints.
On the other hand, they are engaged in massive cost-cutting that forces users onto an upgrade treadmill. I can understand that you don't want to validate your software against every piece of hardware from the last decade. But other developers are clearly capable of it.
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According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
Trying to get a new OS to work with an old driver is hard. In fact it's so hard, that Linux pretty much requires drives to be compiled for your exact kernel. Trying to do this without assistance from the manufacturer of the device seems like a fools errand. The policy here seems quite reasonable. MSFT will provide updates for as long as the device manufacturer supports the device. After that you still get security updates but no high-risk feature updates. This makes Microsoft's job a lot easier. But it also helps the device manufacturers. The hardware business is somewhat commoditized and the margins are razor-thin. This allows vendors to differentiate and make a few more points of margin by supporting the hardware for longer. That should be easier if the hardware is of higher quality so it also prevents a race to the bottom. Sure there are a few people out there who want to try to run Windows/10 creator on their 386/33. And those people will figure out how to obtain and install the latest version of Windows whether Microsoft provides it via the update mechanism or not. Some people will complain about everything Microsoft. But it's really hard to find valid complaints about Windows as a consumer OS. Mac OS and Linux are out there but it's not a case of them being better and people not knowing. They are probably about equal to Windows but not enough of an improvement to compel a switch. Obviously in the data center, Linux is eating Windows' lunch but that's a different situation. Nobody runs unsupported hardware there. Well, at least they shouldn't.
These older computers would be perfect for Linux, if Linux developers would stop shooting themselves in the foot by making sure people with old hardware cannot use Linux, things like dropping XAA support to make sure older video cards will not work with Linux, and now the Wayland disaster, which is specifically designed to make Linux unuseable on older hardware and anything less, it seems, than the most recent $300 super duper Intel or AMD graphics adapters (lets not even go into the Nvidia driver disaster).
Windows 10 has to be the single best example of how NOT to roll out an operating system.
Forcing people to migrate their hardware out of fear that their OS will simply stop running arbitrarily, is complete and utter bullshit. Where do they get the right to arbitrarily change their license/support terms on the fly like this?
And why hasn't any governments slapped them into next year for it?
Honestly I don't need the "feature creep" of new versions anyhow. If I need to do something that wasn't included in the prior version of Windows, then I already have software designed to fill that need. The only problem I can see is that incorporating features into the mainline version of Windows can lead to developers abandoning products because their market has been undercut. Those who still need them will be stuck with old versions of both OS and app. I would rather have had the option of continuing with Anniversary on both of my machines, but doing a fresh install for Creators on my desktop turned out to be a blessing anyhow. All sorts of weird little glitches accumulated from years of in-place upgrades got resolved at once.
MS says security patches will continue. If they're good to their word, I don't see any major problems with this other than the aforementioned gutting of third party app support due to a loss of revenue.
How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
This is a pretty underhanded way to get users who don't need to upgrade their machines to upgrade.
There is no technical reason (that I'd believe) for Windows 10 to not function on any given hardware configuration. In fact, Windows 10 has been a champ about being moved between hardware setups without really hiccuping much.
I definitely call BS on Microsoft. They're simply giving PC manufacturers a handup by arbitrarily by declaring a hardware profile to be unsupported.
It almost made sense for this stance on Windows 7/8.* and 7th gen Intel CPU's, but this.. this is market manipulation.
Try getting Sierra on Mac made before 2009 or Firefox on a CPU without SSE2 support. Older computers are getting screwed everyday and these are computers with Ghz processors like the successful intel trouncing AthlonXP CPUs.
All these perfectly working machines are now going to an early grave causing enviromental damage because of support dropping.
at least once a month an article will pop up declaring panic over drops in new pc hardware sales and what it means to the future of this business.
The reason hardware sales are down Is because of people who complain about things like this. Who are these people that are trying to use the same atom processor netbook for ten plus years?
Slashdot: "Windows is shackled by legacy support, and should cut off old hardware and software."
Also Slashdot: "Microsoft needs to keep its hands off our systems, and should never cut off old hardware and software."
Hypocrisy, schizophrenia, or civil war?
You can still order workstations from Dell with Windows 7. But you can't pick the latest generation i7 CPU.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
Someone writes SolidWorks builds for Linux I'll switch right over. Mac is nearly as bad in this regard. Just recently Autodesk came out with AutoCAD for OSX.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
They're trying to force you to trash perfectly good, working computers that are more than adequate for your needs, and buy expensive new ones. Don't fall for it. Install some flavor of Linux instead.
Linux is user friendly, just careful about friends it chooses.
Clearly, you aren't the friendly type and Linux knows it.
With any change of OS, start with a list of applications and tasks that you do. Prioritize each. Find solutions for the high priority tasks first. Expect that some changes are going to be necessary and that some applications simply won't be available on the new-to-you OS.
As your skills with Linux grow, you'll learn things that you've been manually doing on Windows that are just stupid and should be automated. Linux is fantastic at automation. Linux is great at avoiding commercial software licenses too.
If you aren't deeply into scripting in Excel, then libreOffice can do anything Excel can do. It has a scripting language, but it isn't VB.
Before you can completely drop Windows, or MSFT drops support for your hardware, you can migrate 95% of what you do to Linux. Using Windows for just those very few remaining things that only work on Windows.
Put Windows into a VM and let it 'see' whatever CPU you want. Run whatever version of Windows you like on the newest CPUs and let the hypervisor simulate whatever CPU is needed. This won't help the fools who purchased Atom CPUs for desktops. There isn't any solution for stupidity that I know.
Or you can place Windows on a single machine and access those few specific programs over a remote desktop. That's how I access my Windows7 Media Center - it runs inside a VM and gets accessed via RDP from any of my Linux systems.
Anyways - there are lots and lots of solutions to minimize your dependence on MSFT. If you never start, you'll never be free. Think of all the wasted time you spend dealing with Windows issues. Some caused by incompetence, some caused by malevolence of MSFT. Have you ever tried to get MSFT to do anything? I have from a Fortune 5 corporation. It isn't possible to get MSFT to do something they don't want to do already. We wanted them to keep time better. They refused. On Windows, +/- 5 min is close enough. On Unix, being off 2 seconds just doesn't happen. Usually the clocks are off less than 0.1 sec. If MSFT can't keep proper time, why would you trust Excel?
Early on, Microsoft tells the world "Windows 10 is supported for 10 years."
Later, it tells the world "Windows 10 is supported for 10 years as long as you keep getting feature updates - we support any given feature update for only X years" (X=2-3?).
Later, it tells early adopters "sorry Charlie, you can't get feature updates."
At some point BEFORE the 10-year-anniversary of Windows 10, Microsoft will be breaking one of its early-on promises with respect to those early adopters.
Probably not illegal in MOST jurisdictions, but it might be in a few.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
So you're telling me that I can't get this to go on my 486 Dx2 system? Darn! I guess I will just need to stay put.
As an IT guy, I'm cursed with supporting family and friends computers. You know I'm not alone in that.
Anyway, last year I made a stand...
If my family wants my continued discounted (free) computer support, they must purchase an Apple, Linux based machine, or Chromebook. Period.
If they want to save money and buy a machine with a sub-par OS like Windows to save a few bucks, then they can pay the local computer repair center ($70/pop) to clean the malware off it.
What I think Microsoft should do is continuously ping a master list of hardware. The second any hardware is no longer supported by the manufacturer Windows should bluescreen or greenscreen or whatever color it is these days with stop error DEVICE_TREADMILL_VIOLATION.
After all if the vendor doesn't support something.. it may not work right or may not be secure or similar specious drivel so crashing is the safest most responsible course of action.
Forget the fact most of the things myself and everyone I know own are long since out of warranty and no longer produced or supported by the original manufacturer in any way.
Forget the fact Microsoft pretends to care about protecting the environment: https://www.microsoft.com/en-u...
At this point anything Microsoft can do to hasten the inevitable rise of not Windows should be encouraged. Only takes a few percent of overall market share to sustain and reinforce alternatives.
Consumer hostility, gone plaid...
There is no XUL, only WebExtensions...
...all fucked up.
People, this is Microsoft we're talking about. Did you honestly think Microsoft would not find a way to fuck you over?
Apple would never pull this kind of crap.
Then it's time to patch the installers to remove the offending code.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Is visa fallback where you go out and buy a new PC? (Or did you mean VESA?)
So what happened to UWP, the effort to get Windows to run on multiple devices with varied capabilities and power? Somehow these processors just don't fit in?
Such boneheaded decisions will only cause the already insane pile of e-waste to grow even faster. If a Linux distro can run snappy on a 35$ Pi 3 then Windows should have no problem on an Intel Atom or older CPU. What the heck, now consumers have to spend extra just because Microsoft has thousands of utterly inept developers? Where are the lawmakers when we need them?
Actually, if the hardware is that old, does it have those backdoors? I doubt that Atoms have room for an extra backdoor CPU in them
For what networkBoy was suggesting, it seems that the Chromebook is partially there: what they need to do is stop restricting it to low end configurations, and offer mid range & high end laptops as well, w/ adequate memory & storage. In other words, don't give us anemic laptops that just allow us to upload stuff to Google Drive: offer us a range of laptops, like say, a laptop w/ 4GB of RAM and 256GB SSD that one can use to store one's personal data. Cloud backup should be an option, not mandatory.
PC OEMs, or what's left of them, should do this. Yeah, keep offering your standard Wintel laptops, but offer lines that have ChromeOS as well. Here, they'd even have an option of using ARM CPUs, which could help in the costs & compatibility w/ Android apps department. That way, people who have to have Windows can have it, but people who either want a stable long term OS or who wanna avoid Windows at all costs have a range of price options, other than having to go all out Mac. On Apple's end, they might wanna consider introducing Macs based on their own CPUs, which would help them in terms of making up for the erosion in iPad sales.
People who are systemd allergic should do what many have done, and just move completely to one of the BSDs. There's no telling the viability of Devuan, and the ones that haven't gone systemd are more likely just behind the curve. What's the guarantee that Gentoo or Slackware won't go systemd after a certain kernel rev?
Also, when you reach a certain OS limit on a particular hardware, Apple leaves you alone. One downside of that, however - I had an old iPod Touch, whose apps were no longer supported, since it peaked at iOS 4.3. No way can one retrieve those from the app store. It would be nice if the App store recognized a device, and automatically configured itself to only pick software that's supported on that device, so that one isn't left high & dry on a device that's otherwise working perfectly well.
The main reason to not allow upgrades is when a particular computer (I'm including phones & tablets here as well) has limited storage, or other limits that would make an upgraded OS very unresponsive or poor performer. Otherwise, if one gets something w/ adequate resources, it should be upgradable for the foreseeable future.
My experience is mixed. On my iPod Touch, it topped off at iOS 4.3, and then I couldn't even get app store apps. Although in its defense, it was limited in its storage, so it would probably not have been a good idea to upgrade it beyond that.
OTOH, my iPhone 5s was upgradable all the way up to 11, while my iPad Mini 1 up to 10.something. Again, more to do w/ storage. Right now, both my iToys have 128GB of storage, so I should be good for the foreseeable future on those.
What is the modern alternative for wine? I haven't needed to use any windows apps from Linux for a long while but you have peaked my interest.
refactor the law, its bloated, confusing and unmaintainable.
Apple has been dropping support for their computers for years... they cut off older machines for technical reasons they choose not to accommodate. Which is funny, because unlike Windows, Mac OS only has to support devices hand-picked by Apple and Apple alone. Where Windows releases need to provide support for literally hundreds of sound card, network interfaces and drive controllers, along with thousands of video cards.
Ken
64-bit was a ploy to get people interested in buying new hardware. The benefits did not come until about a year or two later in regards to gpu. Now, there is no new archetype to market and sells aren't going like they want. When you sell a dinky $400 laptop with no ports, horrible battery life, 4GB of RAM, and must be connected to the Internet for most of the software to work, what do you expect. So now, they are forcing people to buy new computers. Be smart and just switch to Linux.