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Donald Trump Says US Military Will Not Allow Transgender People To Serve (theguardian.com)
Donald Trump said on Wednesday he would not allow transgender individuals to serve in the US military in any capacity. From a report: The US president tweeted: "After consultation with my Generals and military experts, please be advised that the United States Government will not accept or allow ... transgender individuals to serve in any capacity in the U.S. Military." He added: "Our military must be focused on decisive and overwhelming ... victory and cannot be burdened with the tremendous medical costs and disruption that transgender in the military would entail." Trump's decision marks a sharp reversal of a policy initiated under Barack Obama, in which the Pentagon ended a longtime ban on transgender people from serving openly in the military. As a candidate, Trump cast himself as a supporter of LGBT rights and indicated he would uphold certain Obama-era policies designed to protect transgender people.
Full body shiver.
If a soldier has to take Hormone replacement pills every day, and then they are suddenly unavailable, I could see it causing some issues.
No surprise. Trump is living in 1940's Italy. He's completely out of touch with the modern world or modern sensibilities. He's like the old drunk great uncle that every family has. The one that has no morality and complains about blacks and women.
No one is going to be upset when he "moves-on", and his antique anti-morality moves on.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
Sorry, Trump... that genie is already out of the bottle. Legislation is probably necessary to roll it back at this point.
My feeling is this is bound to wind up in the 9th circuit district court with an injunctive order issued against this change in policy.
"As a candidate, Trump cast himself as a supporter of LGBT rights and indicated he would uphold certain Obama-era policies designed to protect transgender people."
Why do reporters continue to bother with this... Clearly his supporters don't care what he said he would do and what he IS doing, and even more clearly, his non-supporters don't need anymore ammunition to dislike him.
Yea it's fun to call him out on lying/not holding onto campaign promises, but seriously, this is NOT new at all with any politician, especially fuck-face-von-orangutan. (Fun fact, if you Google Image search "orangutan", Donald Trump is the second suggestion they offer.)
and if we have a draft will this last?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/worl...
Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.
In many situations the US military has no way to get individual medications to troops in the field. If a transgender person has any medical need to keep on medications they would not normally qualify. Many people are rejected from service over medical need to reliably take medications. However in Trump's case he is most likely trying to impress the most ignorant Americans by persecuting others. I am concerned that we may see violence used against republic members of the House and Senate over their behavior concerning medical care. Frankly these right wing types are trying to murer millions of Americans by denial of medical care. To expect people not to lash out is silly.
I personally know a former Marine. He loved serving. He was an NCO, a sargeant. He's one of these disciplined and athletic guys who actually likes all the running and training. He spoke so fondly of it that I asked him why he would have left. He told me that the political correctness was just becoming ridiculous. The female Marines just didn't have the physical performance capabilities of the males (the best among them were about equal to the average male, and those were exceptional) - this is the same reason sports and the Olympics have Men's and Women's events. It's just the nature of the sexes and beyond our control. The top brass kept trying to ignore these differences, to the point that it was harming combat effectiveness in many situations. Of course, in a military environment you do what you're told and you shut your mouth about it, so he and other NCOs had no voice and no ability to protest. Eventually he got tired of it so when his term of service was up, he got out. He told me he was not the only one, not by far. Politics was not why he signed up.
People already generally have a hard time being rational about real, measurable physical strength/performance differences between men and women. And those can easily be demonstrated and proven. The whole LGBT topic tends to cause even more extreme irrational reactions and controversy. You really don't want this kind of bickering in a military unit where distractions and small mistakes get people killed. It's the one place you can't afford it.
There's plenty of things Trump has said and done that I don't like. This time though, I think he's making the right call and probably knows he's going to take a lot of outrage for it. I can respect that whether I like the guy or not.
Amen!
We need to disallow gays in the military also. It's important that our enemies fear our military and they are not afraid of a bunch of girly men.
A lot if those so-called "girly men" could kill you where you stand,without even raising their heart rate.
For example, a lot of bikers are gay. But I dare you to walk up to any of them and call them a "girly man".
Don't belong in the Military. They have a job to do.
From the healthcare vote going on right now. Worked too. This crap is now front page on CNN while our Congress Critters are dealing in the back.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
"Trump cast himself as a supporter of LGBT rights"
No, if I recall he was a supporter of LG BTQ...whatever that is, maybe a type of sandwich, or some new device from LG?
When the Dems and the left are talking about transgendered issues, they're forgetting the needs of 99+% of Americans. But they can't help themselves, because if every year isn't always 1964, then leftism is just bullying.
There are two reasons for this:
* Physiological - There's enough issues with men and women serving together in high stress situations. This would be another distraction.
* Political - Just like his attacks on his attorney general this is a distraction from the fact that the Republicans could not get Repeal and/or Replace of ObamaCare through again.
You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
He is commander in chief.
Yup, and I think that's what causes most people to "full body shiver" :
phrasings such as "my generals" make painfully aware that your orange troll with a twitter account *is* "the commander in chief" and "*his* generals" are indeed under *his* command.
sad~
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Of course this advice isn't applicable to trans
They ban trasgendered for no reason, but allow muslims to serve despite the many attacks by them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... http://www.thegatewaypundit.co...
Finally an end to the madness. Mentally ill people should not be allowed to join the military. We shouldn't pay for their hormone treatments and surgery that affirms their mental illness.
Girly? More like grizzly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Even accepting your so-called logic, and further even accepting that US enemies are "not afraid of girly men", there would not be any way in practice to notice any so-called "girliness", because at least generally speaking, the soldiers of opposing sides do not routinely socialize with eachother enough to know them well enough to associate such traits to them. There is no objective standard by which anyone can say that your notion is acceptable... I can't even call it an argument, it is so abysmally flawed.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Right! Because currently the US military spends next to nothing* on medical for it's cis-male soldiers. No hospitals or doctors are needed* to treat our hetero-military and vets, because they are so Focused and Decisive! But once the flood of trans-soldiers comes marching in, only then will military spending spiral out of control. And there goes our overwhelming victory.
* Alternative facts.
Amen!
We need to disallow gays in the military also. It's important that our enemies fear our military and they are not afraid of a bunch of girly men.
By the way, the Spartans (well, actually the Sacred Band of Thebes) were gay, a fact conveniently left out of the movie "300". And they were quite feared on the battlefield for a number of decades.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik...
Can 0.3-0.6% of the population really do anything "in droves"?
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
I was rejected for mild scoliosis....I would think being born with the wrong genitals would be a more severe condition than that. I require no treatment and rarely ever even feel discomfort...compared to someone who will require treatment for the rest of their lives.
By the way, the Spartans (well, actually the Sacred Band of Thebes) were gay, a fact conveniently left out of the movie "300". And they were quite feared on the battlefield for a number of centuries.
FTFY
...Okay he did. But he meant WPGT. Because those ladies look good when they bend over to tee up.
Care killed the cat, but satisfaction brought it back.
The purpose of the military, is to break things and kill people. It needs to be a tight cohesive bunch, not with a bunch of "my gender of the week" types.
I don't know why you think someone having a different gender identity than their assigned at birth identity somehow must make them "weak." Heck, for that matter, even if you did have someone whose gender identity changed every week as you suggest, I don't see why that would them have trouble killing people or being part of a cohesive fighting force.
The military should be EXEMPT from all of this political correctness garbage, which, is set up on purpose, to reduce morality, and destroy the best fighting force in the world.
Or this is about people who genuinely want the right to fight for their country. You appear to be jumping from the fact that you disagree with other people to concluding that they must have nefarious goals. Incidentally, it is worth noting that the exact same arguments you are making now have now been made twice before. They were first made when we desegregated the military to have black and white people in the same units. This argument was again made only a few years ago when we let gays and lesbians openly serve. Why is it different this time?
This first time I've seen the appropriate use of an Anonymous Coward account on Slashdot in ~17 years.
If one feels the need to choose from a list a letters to sexually identify with, they are no better than folks who want to limit folks to two genders.
And these lgbtq... "issues" are just a whiny fringe who need to worry about more important issues. And as they alienate more people, they are sobataging their agenda.
The purpose of the military, is to break things and kill people. It needs to be a tight cohesive bunch, not with a bunch of "my gender of the week" types. The military should be EXEMPT from all of this political correctness garbage, which, is set up on purpose, to reduce morality, and destroy the best fighting force in the world. (I have thick skin /. types, fire away)
You don't have a thick skin if your hang-ups about other people's bodies requires everyone who is not like you to have their rights restricted. You are the most delicate snowflake of all.
It's your attitude that needs to be drummed out of the service. It smacks of poor discipline and a fragile psyche.
That's what they said about keeping black people out of the military 150 years ago, and then that was the reason for keeping them in segregated units, and women from joining at all 60 years ago, and gay people from serving openly until just a few years ago. Each and every time, detractors talked about how 'the unit would be destroyed'. The unit got over it, the unit changed, and Surprise, Surprise, Surprise, the Republic yet prevails.
Agreed.
Even though it's sort of backwards due to PTSD and all that, people fighting and supporting each other need to be mentally steady at all times. I say "steady" because I mean that someone who is manically depressed, wetting themselves and crying uncontrollably whenever they hear gunfire, fighting the voices, etc, have no business being depended upon by the rest of the military and our country. So if someone is mentally struggling with anything that keeps their concentration from being fully engaged with whatever job or task they have at any given time, they need to go.
On the flip side, once the horrors of breaking things and killing people have sunk in, we damned well should be doing everything we can to get them back to the healthy state they were in prior to joining up.
Because if we can't get people back into their original, normal lives (or at least get as close as possible), we need to start cutting off all military reproductive organs. Let our eunuchs fight the wars and if they no longer can function, push them into their retirement six feet under. It's may feel kinder than what many people deal with once they get spit out of our current system.
This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
Not to make this into a debate on another topic, but I'm reminded of an observation George Carlin made during his career.
"Catholics and other Christians are against abortions and they're against homosexuals. Well who has less abortions than homosexuals? Leave these fucking people alone for Christ's sake. Here is an entire class of people guaranteed never to have an abortion and the Catholics and the Christians are just tossing them aside. You'd think they'd make natural allies."
Ultimately they're going to need bodies to throw into the meat grinder of whatever the next major conflict is... at the rate we're going, it'll probably be invading North Korea and/or Iran, which will turn into a bloodbath. That aside, if you're being shot at by enemy soldiers, you probably aren't going to care too much if the person in the foxhole with you is gay, straight, trans, a woman, or whatever else. You're going to worry about not getting shot or shelled, and probably the only thing you really care about regarding the other people around you, is whether or not they can shoot straight and maybe take out some of the enemy soldiers so you might live to see the next day.
If someone wants to serve -- unlike a certain individual residing in a white house that had a rich father who could get him out of any kind of military service on rather flimsy grounds, and used a charity, ostensibly for veterans, as a way to pay off personal debts -- I say let them as long as they meet the basic requirements. Even if someone isn't the picture of health and fitness, there are bound to be hundreds of support roles the person could play. All those tanks, guns, ammo, etc, don't just magically appear on the battlefield.
-See that a bunch of news stories talking about transgender people in the military are being run and promoted
-"Women soldiers told to expect to see female penises in the showers'
-Let that stew for a couple weeks with the outraged conservatives
-Trumps negates all such stories
-'OMG BASED TRUMP DRAIN TEH SWAMP HE IS FOR REAL'
-Meanwhile the root causes and worst problems of liberalism run unchecked
His actions have degraded the character of the highest office. He is a corrupt businessman with connections to the mafia. His nepotism has no bounds. He willfully and enthusiastically cedes American pre-eminence to Russia, and deals secretly with our adversaries, but banning trannies was the right decision.
You can't enlist because you have a medical need. Sure transgender is not considered mental disorder (even though they have severely high suicide rates) but it requires constant medication to either be a man or a woman. The withdrawals of such drugs, can cause confusion, lethargy, and various other things. All things that impact your ability to shoot, carry wounded soldiers, and the various other acts of being a soldier.
If you're not outraged about diabetes...why are you outraged about transgenders?
You do realize there's a huge list of disqualifying medical conditions for serving in the military:
http://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/disqualifiers-medical-conditions.html
which, is set up on purpose, to reduce morality, and destroy the best fighting force in the world. (I have thick skin /. types, fire away)
I think you've done it Sherlock! You've uncovered the conspiracy to destroy America with liberalism!!!!! Quick! Someone notify Breitbart and Infowars! (I'm sure you don't waste your time with that liberal Fox News!) I'm personally glad you're not in the military, as it appears you could be outwitted by a ham sandwich.
I just hope that the rest of the world understands that the greater percentage of the USA population does not hate any particular group of people as the current government would lead the world to believe. There are too many people in the country left behind by automation. Those disenfranchised folks look for a conduit for their frustration. It is a bit scary because that is one of the components that led to global political struggles in the 1930's. The difficult part is educating those disenfranchised on how they can improve their position and grow with the world rather than trying to figure out how to get what they had back. Hating another cultural group might make you feel better, but it is unlikely to fix the root cause of your frustration.
There is or can be built a machine that can simulate any physical object. -Church-Turing principle
Do you see men weakened by estrogen therapy or women limited by their physiology as threatening?
You watch too much TV. The military does so much more than simple destruction. Being able to respect people who are different is a useful and valuable skill in the military.
There is a female that identifies as a male and is accepted into a combat arms unit. Males do not receive time off for pregnancy, males have different standards for physical fitness, males do not receive family leave. If this "male" then becomes pregnant does this "male" become a female again? Do males that identify as females live in female barracks? And how do the females respond to a "female" that is using the communal showers?
Passionately Indifferent
The great jobs-creator just issued an order to kill thousands of jobs.
In other words, there are already policies in place to handle this sort of thing and the ban is unnecessary. Thanks, this was very helpful.
Who knew a disorganised organisation like the US military already had policies for this??
How is the POTUS and 'his generals' supposed to know these things?!
/sarcasm
A 'singular oddity' is an event that cannot be explained and only happens when you are alone.
How is this in any way relevant for a tech site?
"are they going to ban all people with chronic diseases too?" Yes, just as they've done since the inception of the military.
Amen!
We need to disallow gays in the military also. It's important that our enemies fear our military and they are not afraid of a bunch of girly men.
The US military should make their uniforms as girly as possible. Imagine the humiliation of having your ass handed to you by a bunch of guys in pink taffeta
Pain is merely failure leaving the body
They will when they run out of people who want to die in useless wars.
Table-ized A.I.
They do ban and discharge people with chronic diseases. If a medical condition makes you not combat ready you are out. If a mental condition that requires medication (Bi-Polar Example) to keep you stable you are out. The military is about the mission, I do not see anyone crying or shouting for the patriotic Asthmatics or the Bi-Polar defenders of freedom. There is no parade for those poor souls denied their god given duty to defend liberty with flat feet. The executive order put politics above mission trump corrected the issue.
Take a look at the depressingly long list of members of the joint chiefs of staff that managed to somehow never get deployed anywhere despite so much going on over their long careers. The former ones that somehow managed to avoid both Vietnam and Korea but were still held up as paragons seemed especially odd to get in those positions.
You do realize there's a huge list of disqualifying medical conditions for serving in the military:
http://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/disqualifiers-medical-conditions.html
Yeah I realize that and I'm all for it, but wouldn't they still decide this on a case-by-case basis? And wouldn't the decision be taken by qualified personnel rather than the president? (and yes I know the decision to allow trans people in the military in the first place was taken by the (previous) president too)
A hefty percentage of the population knows somebody in the 0.3-0.6% and may no longer wish to serve a military which casts out their friends/family.
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You don't think you can be medically discharged for an inability to perform duties for _any_ reason in the Military? You don't know jack about the Military. I'm a US Army vet, and have zero problems with this ruling but not simply because of the medication. I'll give two easy examples.
First, as GP stated above, the Military has to be a very cohesive bunch. In back line situations you have communal showers and bathrooms with little privacy. In front line situations, you have a canteen and hole that you dig. You put the majority of the military at a very compromising position with transgender soldiers. The twig and berries don't vanish because a person believes they are a woman, any more than breasts and bush vanish when a women believes they are man. So should the women in the military be forced to look at a twig and berries in the showers? Do you think it's fair to the men to stick a naked women who thinks they are man into a shower with them? Not that people want things to happen in either of those circumstances, but you are providing a very high risk and completely unnecessary situation for soldiers.
Next, you have PT rules by gender because _biology_ differences give us different limitations and abilities. The military loses effectiveness due to some of those differences already but has learned to cope. What they can't cope with is a completely arbitrary set of restrictions for every potential soldier. How do you cope with a guy who claims to be a woman? Do they get to do PT based on woman's rules or men's rules? Can the woman be medically discharged because the believe they are a man but can't do 80 pushups in under 2 minutes? Don't you believe more and more soldiers would not just try to drop out medically, but claim to be a more convenient gender for things like PT testing and promotion consideration?
The Military is not about "me", it's about "the force". Since we do not force service people who want "me" don't have to serve.
For the person who claimed not all jobs in the Military are combat, I say bullshit! Every soldier is trained on how to kill the enemy and defend against attacks. Even if your job isn't going out on patrol looking for enemies, you are at risk simply by being a soldier. Your first job and first responsibility in the Military is to be a Soldier. Your secondary job is to be a medic, mechanic, etc... (See Jessica Lynch, or any of the other people attacked, wounded, killed, or captured away from the front lines.)
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
No, the purpose of the military is to further the goals of the U.S., much of what they do does not involve breaking anything or killing people. Your notions of the military are so 1940ish.
Why to you want to limit the military's ability to deploy the most effective forces it can assemble? This is a constraint imposed from outside of the military that prohibits the military from assessing fitness of potential soldiers.
sjws don't like void pointers.
I'm sure I'm going to get blasted. But anyone who compares this to past military issues like segregation or preventing women from serving isn't being realistic.
The medical costs are an actual issue - The military should NOT pay for gender transition - http://www.military.com/daily-... This is a readiness and leathality issue. Soldiers must be able to fight - it doesn't matter if they are a cook or a band-member. Hormone therapies cause physiological and behavioral changes, surgeries require significant time to heal - this is not conducive to a functioning and coherent squad.
If you have ongoing gender issues/crisis, you should not be entering the military. The military requires stability and focus. Such distractions only detract from readiness and squad relations.
The only way ANY transgender should be allowed is if ze has already completed gender reassignment, is stable, healthy, and requires minimal support (And that means MINIMAL!) People who require regular medical support to be functional are not allowed in the military (diabetics, severe allergies, etc).
However, even if there are transgenders that meet the minimal support requirements, the additional costs of medical testing/vetting transgender recruits are likely also burdensome. I don't think the extra costs are worth catering to what will always be a very small percentage of the overall force.
It's basically a non-issue.
http://www.rand.org/content/da...
Only a halfwit moron would think this is likely. Obama didn't actually implement this policy—he announced it as election-year PR after his presidency was already over and done with.
The policy literally went into effect about THREE WEEKS AGO. Up until that time, trans could not serve openly in the military. If people cared about this issue as much as you claim, they would have left the military a long time ago.
The most significant reason I think this is different is because maintaining one's transition to a different gender has biological repercussions and medical maintenance requirements. That's been stated several times in this thread. Check farther up for some interesting data from servicepeople.
No. I replied to the correct comment. Dismissing people as "SJW pussies" and replacing real people with actual rational arguments with a strawman substitute that is incapable of understanding history, morals, or respect for authority. That's dehumanizing them to make it easier to disagree with their arguments. I don't mean to imply that the drunk-uncle comment is beyond reproach; but it's at least directed at a single person and can be somewhat supported by evidence. If it was instead directed at all Trump supporters, then I would indeed have a similar problem with it.
And these lgbtq... "issues" are just a whiny fringe who need to worry about more important issues. And as they alienate more people, they are sobataging their agenda.
It's a circular definition because you don't consider their issues valid no matter what they are.
If one feels the need to choose from a list a letters to sexually identify with, they are no better than folks who want to limit folks to two genders.
Right, because you don't feel like you should be forced to acknowledge that these people exist at all. Which is how this problem started.
Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
The large majority of jobs in the U.S. armed forces are not fighting or even physical roles.
A great-uncle, a WW2 paratrooper, shared his frozen hole in the ground on the font lines of Bastogne with a truck driver who had not fired a weapon since basic training.
Another great-uncle, brother of the previous, was a clerk aboard a Navy destroyer in the Pacific during WW2. His primary job involving logs, ledgers and typewriters but during combat these were put aside and his secondary job came into play, anti-aircraft gun crew member. His tertiary job was Browning Automatic Rifleman (he did well in Basic Training on the rifle range) in the event of guarding prisoners, repelling boarders, or shore party. "Shore party" in this context being when the Navy is a bit short of Marines at a particular place and time and tells Sailors to pick up a rifle and engage in ground combat. Sort of like the previously mentioned Army truck driver. His tertiary job only came into play in the context of covering crew members as they were fishing enemy sailors/pilots out of the sea. Some of these tried to pull a gun or knife to take one last American with them.
A high school teacher was an electronics technician in the Marine Corp and served in Vietnam. One day he was sitting at his workbench at a comfy base in the rear and his lieutenant appears and tells him that a Marine Force Recon team was taking him behind enemy lines to the Ho Chi Minh Trail in order to install sensors that would detect the movement of enemy reinforcements and supplies on that trail.
In recent wars is there any shortage of stories of troops in non-fighting roles finding themselves in a firefight while driving from point A to point B?
The bathroom policy is not settled because it's not politically useful for it to be settled. As an issue it was invented because the Supreme Court said that being mean to gays wasn't okay any more, so we had to pick on the smaller group of "deviants". It's not going to go away until it stops driving voters to the polls. I'm not sure what isn't blatantly transparent about that.
Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
Granted requiring registration when the US has an all volunteer army is pretty stupid, but as long as men have to and women don't, the question of what transgendered have to do will be there.
And if transgendered don't have to register, then what constitutes being transgendered?
You seem upset. Would you like a hug?
"After consultation with my Generals and military experts, please be advised that the United States Government will not accept or allow ... transgender individuals to serve in any capacity in the U.S. Military."
There is no way this is true. I absolutely, positively refuse to believe for one second that Donald Trump consulted with anybody on any topic for any reason.
You don't need to be 'straight' to fight and die for your country. You just need to shoot straight.
--Barry Goldwater
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Whether we label something as a mental health problem is less relevant to whether or not it is a mental health problem that interferes with their ability to fight. Many minor mental health problems are allowed for people in the military or in security contexts as long as they don't impair ability. That's something that should be made on a judgment based on that sort of concern.
Yes, it's high time that the Pink Barrettes were a thing.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Looks like just another GNAA troll to me.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
So, I agree that there are specific concerns in that context, and they do require substantial examination to see how much they matter. Luckily, we also have data from other countries. For example, the IDF allows transgender individuals and has had no problems aside from some very minor accommodations they had to make. There are many medical circumstances where we don't put people into front-line combat while they are undergoing it, but that doesn't mean we don't put them in the military wholesale.
I'd rather have a transgender catch a bullet, but I can see why they might be an issue.
Fuck you and fishy-fishy tits!
There's at least one who would disagree.
We heard almost identical arguments about blacks in 1948.
About women in combat roles during the 1980s.
About gays in the military since then.
The same arguments, same language, same logic.
Dress it up however you want,
but you can't polish a turd.
Never mind about transgender people, when are the armed forces going to end the outrageous discrimination against men with bone spurs on their feet?
Yes. There's an entire branch of the US Military dedicated to weeding out people who are physically or mentally unfit to serve.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Come on, if nothing else, you've seen Captain America, right? Poor Steve Rogers kept getting marked 4F 'Unfit for service' because he didn't meet physical minimums.
Hell, the Air Force will turn you down for some jobs if you're too physically large; if you're a 6 foot 6 weightlifter, you're not fitting in the cockpit of a Hornet.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
M*A*S*H was a documentary, right?
Or this is about people who genuinely want the right to fight for their country.
It can also be about people who want their country to PAY for a very expensive treatment both during service and after.
Peace is easy to achieve, just surrender. Liberty is much harder get/keep.
I know several LGBTQs because a good friend is. Every one got relentlessly bullied growing up. Often by people in positions of power (teachers, principals, police). Most had parents that were unsupportive. The lucky ones were ignored by their parents. The less lucky received a constant stream of emotional abuse and for the really unlucky ones it as physical abused.
What I'm saying is, in the environment our society has created for them, not shit they got some issues. The correct response isn't to shit on them by denying them one of the few economic opportunities they might have (and make no mistake, our military is a giant socialism program meant to prop up our economy in the face of mind boggling wealth inequality. If you doubt me go read what Eisenhower had to say about the MIC). The correct response is to stop dumping on them non-stop.
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there's be some contention. Or how about Muslims? So yeah, there's still a debate to be had. The President is not a God-King.
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Another interesting comment I read in this thread was that something as mundane as a minor case of Scoliosis can disqualify someone from serving in an armed force. Where is the standard? Should we open the doors to something as biologically and medically impactful as gender transition (greater) when we're already closing them to something like a minor case of Scoliosis (lesser)? Should we be arguing for allowing transgendered people just because it's a big social issue or should we consider it in the context of all other reasons that a person can be blocked from entering military service?
It's a complicated topic.
I knew two cross-dressers who were in Vietnam; one had the river boat blown from under him. Years later they found fiberglass still in his leg.
I knew two transsexual Army soldiers. One broke their back when they were shot down in their helicopter. The other kept reenlisting, and was groomed by the CIA.
I knew another transsexual person who kept reenlisting who had quite a few scars from being shot up.
I knew a nuclear engineer aboard a submarine who was transsexual.
You are going to have transsexual people in the military, one way or another. Though the issue here is not only a question of military service, but a question of our place in society.
And as if it matters, I carried a draft slip too, and when I was young I would have given my life for my country, as did my grandmother's brother, aboard the USS Juneau, who died along with the Sulivan Brothers,
https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
Is there any evidence that anyone has attempted or intends to do this? As far as I can tell, this is essentially a conservative urban legend. And when RAND did a study on the costs of including transgender individuals they seem to have concluded that this was not at all likely https://www.rand.org/news/press/2016/06/30.html.
Study after study from medical organizations has highlighted the mental disorders and medical burdens of the LGBT community, yet the LGBT mobs go to great lengths to silence/discredit the authors/organizations and/or have the studies buried from public view. What is different is that the blacks didn't do this. Demonizing authorities who oppose their agenda is a poor strategy to get culture to accept them and to justify their lifestyle. It is deception, plain and simple.
The blacks have been vocal about their resentment of LGBT groups attempting to borrow from their civil rights struggles. They don't see any parallels.
Eternity: will that be smoking, or non-smoking? I Corinthians 6:9-10
Feared and fabulous!
Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
...I'll betcha.
The purpose of the military, is to break things and kill people.
Go read your Clauswitz, you ignorant fool.
End the perversion of the America-hating Regressives...
ABORT ONE OR TEN MILLION - TODAY!!!!!
The Generals said the same thing about Gay troops.
They lied.
They said the same thing about Black troops
they lied
They said the same thing about Women Troops
They lied.
Why does tRump think this is different?
The female Marines just didn't have the physical performance capabilities of the males
Aha, but they do when all the female marines are all actually men!
The correct solution Trump should have imposed that would have left the liberal community in angry silence is to require all women in the military service to be transgender men.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
That Trump's ban on transgendered people in the military is a blessing for pacifists! They will only need to declare being transgendered (most possibly, pre-op) to avoid draft. How would the army verify that you are not transgender?
and it's important to realize that. They know exactly what they're doing. It's wealth transfer from the working class to the investor class. It's an 800 billion dollar tax cut paid for by gutting our medical system. The stakes are enormous. That 800 billion is going to go mostly to the top .01%. It's hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. A lot of it will become legal bribes in the form of campaign contributions.
This was never a healthcare bill. It's a tax bill to benefit the riches of the rich.
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Back before the civil rights act, you probably would have also complained about those uppity minorities.
Then again, you might actually still do so.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
Not as such, it's about choosing to limit the talent pool more or less than other employers - how about looking at it that way instead of out from under a pile of emotional baggage WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME AMOUNT OF OUTRAGE AT THE TIME.
Objective thought and practicality should be considered instead of what the Political Party line is today - surely you can think for yourself on this instead of recycling irrelevant outrage of others?
I spent eight years as an enlisted Marine. This was decades ago. There were gay people serving and, while we couldn't discuss it, it was well known and accepted. I don't care who you fuck. I care only that you have my back, as I have for you.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
Yes, you have the XXY cases. They have a defective genome, I'm sorry for them but there is nothing I can do to help it.
were they could do no harm
Non-transgenders have done more harm than all the transgenders that have ever lived.
Nice try, Trump.
It would be interesting to see where those numbers come from and what they actually are.
As I mentioned in regards to the civilian issue of trans-gendered in bathrooms in the US, this is good news. It means that all the other more important things that effect and have impact on all citizens have been figured out and addressed. Why else would the President take the time out to make these kinds of decisions, which while negative for many people, certainly are not in the top 10 things that the US needs to get done.
Anyway don't mean to make light of the decision, as I know it is a serious one, just baffled by politicians in general that politically make these sorts of things a priority to move forward on when there are so many other much more important issues that need to be resolved. I mean who really cares all that much, and even if their is an impact to the military, both in cost, and in effectiveness, really how big of an impact could that possibly be? Anyway it is just another political move to pander to their base, for an easy "win" that earns them points for the next election and has little to do with reality other than to secure some future votes. I don't really think Trump is being vindictive, indeed I don't really think he really cares all that much one way or another, other than some political adviser probably suggest here is a way to distract people from the real problems facing the US and the administration, garner more right wing votes for the future, and further divide the population over something that is more ideological than it is practical.
The overwhelming majority of roles, front-line combat included, in a modern, professional military are largely technical. Correct usage of equipment and tactics wins battles not the hand-to-hand, strength-based stuff that you seem to over index on.
Right button, right time - boat, plane, tank.
Tell that to the people carrying 100lbs of ammo, food, water, weapons, clothing, utility gear, and communications who are in combat missions. Oh yeah, during a firefight/threat situation you may unload some gear for maneuvering, but you pick it back up and get back to duty asap.
Stop watching movies for your military knowledge and talk to actual veterans or enlist yourself you fucking coward! _ENTRY_ into Air Assault school has rigorous PT requirements including a 12 mile force march with 80lbs in your ruck in under 3 hours. Airborne school, dive school, Ranger school do too, and they are all nasty physically. Don't you think it would be cheaper to just let anyone train whatever they want based on your asinine view of the world? We can just "feel" like gear weighs nothing and it must be true right?
Yeah, correct usage of gear is essential but you have to have gear to fight with. Ammunition is extremely heavy and if you don't have food and water you drop dead from dehydration and starvation. A small would will _KILL_ without medical gear. Helicopters can't just be Star-Trek teleported into zones, and that hour flight in may be cut off if the zone is too hot for a landing. Calling in dustoff or air support requires radios powerful and durable enough to reach support.
You still haven't learned that TV and movies are not real. Very sad.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
Good. We don't want heterophobic bigots in the military anyway.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Correct, their issues aren't valid. They're all mental issues- as in people who have for whatever reason decided to live their life in a delusion.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
While women can become much stronger than other women by taking hormones, there are other effects such as uncontrollable rage that come with those treatments often enough that it should not be encouraged. If it was controllable rage, maybe.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
Wow, you really got me. I gave the minimum for my job from memory, and you found the absolute minimum to stay in the service no matter what your job.
If you want to get promoted you don't aim for minimums, and depending on your job, there are different PFT requirements. Are you attempting to deny despite all facts you can find to the contrary that women and men have the same PT test? Are you going to deny that transgender males taking estrogen see no physical changes and can pass the same PT test as a male without estrogen? Who exactly is the liar? YOU!
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
You can request a waiver to serve with diabetes, high blood pressure, medicated depression, and sleep disorders, etc... but your waiver can be denied. Why not perform a basic web search before spewing stupidity?
https://www.thediabetescouncil...>From:
This is the hard stance of the military related to Type 1, Type 1.5 and Type 2 diabetes, and generally all branches of the military feel this way about a person with diabetes serving in combat. The general consensus is that you will not be able to make it through tough periods of combat, and that you will be a burden to others that are serving with you. All branches of the military will not allow a Type 1, Type 1.5, or Type 2 diabetic to enlist. You can submit waivers, but you may still get a no .
Emphasis mine.
Sure, not every job in the Military is a combat job but that does not give the military unlimited numbers of non-combat jobs and allow them to ignore the combat roles. If the US Army made everyone a medic we would not be a very effective fighting force now would we?
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
This is potentially a good thing but for the wrong reason.
Suicide rates are tremendously high for soldiers, and tremendously high for Trans individuals.
Placing one demographic that has a disproportionately high suicide rate into an industry/profession that is renown for generating a high suicide rate in previously healthy individuals does not seem to be a recipe for success IMHO.
~ People that think they are better than anyone else for any reason are the cause of all the strife in the world.
You are now attempting to claim that gay and transexual are the same thing and can be treated the same way by society. Yet you are also out there telling everyone that Trans people are different and can't use the same bathrooms as the gender they were born with, need puberty blockers before they are teenagers, need access to hormones and surgery, and have to be treated by what ever gender they decide they are. You further say it can be fluid, so changes based on how a person feels at any given moment so we can't use addresses like Mr., Ms, boy and girl.
So which is it SJW? Can we do away with LGBTAAIQP and replace that with "Gay", or does that only work for _you_ when when it benefits your regressive political positions?
Notice that I did not claim they were the same or have the same needs, or argue anything on my list of demands _you_ make of society in dealing with transgender people. You did.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
You mean the fantasy of "The Great Switch" which was exactly 1 person named Strom Thurmond? The rest remained in the Democratic party, including Bird. here or here, but numerous other sites debunk that fairy tale. I'm pretty sure Snopes had something on it too, but Snopes didn't come up first in my search.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
Finally a President who sees truth! This is not just a bathroom issue. Any time you have to make special rules because someone has to be treated special, rather than following the rules deemed to maintain a military, the rule breaker should move on to something more suitable. During the Viet Nam era my brother was not privileged to serve because he had asthma and was declared medically unfit for duty. So, should the rules have been changed for him to accommodate his asthmatic breathing issues? No, that is dangerous, very problematic, and not very wise. So this is true with the transgenders. They are medically unfit for duty and historically this has been the position of the military for most of American history up until July of 2016--we are just going back to the status quo. In order to be fit for duty, you must be able to go anywhere in the world in any type of environment and be able to survive without any special medical needs. Transgenders need hormone therapies, gender reassignment procedures, and all types of medical needs that would cause them to medically be unfit for duty. And we haven't even broached the subject of psychological issues. The FRC and Rand Corporation did an anaylsis of the potential costs associated with maintain even the small number of transgenders in the military and found the profound medical costs associated with those changes would reach over $10 Billion dollars over the next 10 year.... We have only talked about the medical fitness. There are a plethora of other issues associated with training and other aspects of military life. So of course I'm sure you have thought about all those before you started calling out bigotry, right? Also here's another question: Should taxpayers be forced to fund any voluntary gender reassignment procedures and all the hormone therapies associated with it?
Maybe the man-ly men in the military care more about their boy's club that letting everyone serve their country. They are still dealing with the anger over why men can't publicly share naked pictures of their coworkers. https://news.slashdot.org/stor... . Can you imagine any civilian positions where this would even be a discussion?
This ban came about because the Republicans were arguing about banning funding for sex changes. They couldn't come to an agreement that would pass so the conservatives went to Trump for help. He solved the problem by banning transgender without discussing the implications with very many folks. We can have all the social engineering discussions we want but this out-of-the-blue decision resulted from a mixing of finance and politics.
The military has long had a policy of removing from combat roles persons who require medication to function. i.e. insulin dependent diabetes. Removing the transgender is consistent with this policy as hormone treatments would be a logistical nightmare to supply in a war zone.
LGBT rights vs medical discharge for the good of the service. I'll wager the convenience of the service will carry the day.
The need for special individually tailored routine medication to function is enough of a down side to render a transgendered person enough of a liability to remove from the military that requires above average physical condition in the first place. This isn't a special thing for transgendered but a continuation of a policy that has long been in place. Heck, if you got force fed Ritalin for ADHD at any time in your life; you aren't fit for service by the current medical standards.
NRRPT/RCT
They have the right to exist and the right to be mentally defective fact resistant humans but they DO NOT have the right to force me or any other rational human being to go along with it. Kudos to Trump for standing up to the trans whackos and bring reality back. We need mentally strong people in the military not men who think their balls look nice in panties and women who have healthy breasts hacked off so they can pose as "men". If a person cut off their perfectly healthy arm so they could live as a disabled person you would think they were insane! Thst they were legitimately mentally ill! Yet when a man has a doctor hack apart his healthy reproductive organs to make a frankenvagina you give him awards and TV shows. The liberal mind set is a disease and it's killing society. 20 yrs ago if a parent cross dressed their toddler and tried to pass em off as the opposite sex that parent would be arrested for abuse. Which it is! A toddler would believe they were a truck if you told them they were. My almost 4 yr old sometimes pretends to be a dog, should I let him shit the yard and sniff people's asses? When I was a teenager i had a shaved head which definietly wasn't common for girls (XX actual human females) I was a tomboy as a kid and teen! Thank the gods that my parents weren't mental case liberals and I went thru that before trannymania became the latest fad. If I was that teen today this ass backwards society would be telling me I'm really a dude because I didnt like girly things. I'd have lunatics trying to convince me that I needed hormones and to have my boobs cut off to be happy!! Fekking madness!!!! When reality comes back and it will; there will be masses of surgically and chemically mutilated humans who cannot reproduce or even have normal sexual relations because their genitals are ruined! There will be a lot of anger and regret. And all you morons who support and encourage transmania are just as guilty as the "doctors" who put teens on hormones and little kids on puberty blockers. Who cut off healthy normal body parts to create a small army of mutialted, fake, miserable human beings who need medical intervention for life to live their delusion.
Like 2% of the population is gay, and the only time men are scared of a homosexual man is if they're in prison sharing the shower with him. Gays aside no enemy will fear a bunch of men in skirts crying that their nail polish is chipped. A nation of snowflakes having mass identity crisis isn't very threatening. Obama turned the states into snowflake central! You got queers ruining people's careers and lived because they wont bake cakes or do flowers for gay weddings. Meanwhile none of you assholes bat an eyelash at all the queers getting murdered in the middle East just for being queer. Where's your rage? All you idiots cared about was forcing society to revolve around either your sexual orientation or your identity crisis. You lgbtqwxyz lunatics are doing a great job destroying your own agenda. 2 yrs from now reality will be back and being a transtrender gender bender will be treated like any other delusion
They weren't gay just horny. No women around when your gone off to battle for yrs so you stick it in whatever you can. Same way a straight man will still fuck another man in prison. I'm 100% heterosexual but if I was stuck in a same sex segregated situation for a long period of time (Spartan wars, long prison sentences etc) I'd probably start batting for the same team briefly too just for something to do. People claim they're born gay but I dont buy it. Men who grow to be gay were often molested by men as a child, the eye done many studies on it. Women who were bused by men offer turn to women. People are a product of their environment. If being gay was normal human behavior more than 2% of the population would be gay. If being a gender bender was normal more than 0.2% of the population would be playing Frankenstein with their body parts. Even animals that have gay encounters still end up with a member of the opposite sex in the end.